Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB500/550 => Topic started by: MIKE550/4 on January 13, 2014, 04:42:38 PM
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Looking at the loom I have,what do you think about this anything to worry about ?
should I just insulate over it? or suggest a better idea
also I have this part and ink has faded,
(http://i974.photobucket.com/albums/ae228/INEEDMOREPICS/PICT0084_zps5f8f2646.jpg) (http://s974.photobucket.com/user/INEEDMOREPICS/media/PICT0084_zps5f8f2646.jpg.html)
(http://i974.photobucket.com/albums/ae228/INEEDMOREPICS/PICT0083_zps8e81a528.jpg) (http://s974.photobucket.com/user/INEEDMOREPICS/media/PICT0083_zps8e81a528.jpg.html)
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Part on seat is the headlamp bulb connector, probably best to replace bare wire to be sure.
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The first pic of the 3 wires to a plug is what fits onto the back of the headlight reflector, to either the bulb or sealed beam depending which is fitted. The chafing on the main look, cover with black insulating tape, should stop any more chafing and make it look tidier ;D
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More info.... I hate wiring, split the loom as suggested and wire is green, bare for about 3-4 inches, no sign of burning and other wires looks unaffected, getting dark and poor lighting were the bike is
so to replace that section please go into detail ;D
another pic
(http://i974.photobucket.com/albums/ae228/INEEDMOREPICS/GREENWIRE_zps89d1bad7.jpg) (http://s974.photobucket.com/user/INEEDMOREPICS/media/GREENWIRE_zps89d1bad7.jpg.html)
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The green wire should be a earth wire. Looks like it has been rubbing against the frame.
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Looks like it has been rubbing against the frame.
I'm not so sure. It looks melted.
Is the green insulation worn or melted?
An earth wire would only melt if a fault somewhere else meant that it was carrying (much) more load than it was designed for.
Steve
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Steve, take a look at the first picture. It looks like rubbing. The second picture looks melted. Hard to tell just from a photo.
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not sure at all.. green wire has very small parts of black wire round the edge.
will try and get a better pic in daylight tomorrow close up
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Was the damaged section up against any metal of the bike mike? . Was all the electrics working before you dismantled the bike.
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bike had sat for years, I hooked a battery up and tested what I could lights, indicators, but that's as far as I went.
Bike has not been started for 30 years from what I can gather
Never noticed the rubbing till it was stripped
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Can you see the rubbing marks on the frame Mike. Does this line up with the damaged part of the loom/harness?. If it does, then that's the problem. It may look bad due to the corrosion . Chop it out ,cut it back and replace the damaged wire.
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trigger that pic is old, frame has now been powdercoated.
Electrics I will be reading up on to try and gain some knowledge
looking at the loom again its towards the end of the loom
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Mike this is a simple repair. I am just trying to find out what created the problem in the first place, because you don't want it happening again. There is a rubbing mark on the frame (before powder). If you line the loom up on the bike and the damage matches up with the rubbing marks, then you know what made the damage. I have seen this before and it is when the loom is not positioned right.
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That green wire, which has a ring connector at the coil bracket, can get hot and melt if the main earth wire does not make good contact at the R/H rear engine mounting---any paint/powdercoat need to be removed on both sides so bracket contacts engine and lead properly
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another question on this, took this to motor factor but they could not answer me.
basically what wire do i buy to be able to replace this with ?
anyone give me a link to ebay or the like ?
thanks
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Mike... bad news, me again..
You wrote "so to replace that section please go into detail "
This repair to your (green / earth) wire within the loom. Basically you'll need:
(1) A replacement length of wire, MINIMUM 15A rating. Try shopping here, look in the menu 'Cable', and within here either Standard... OR Thin Walled Cable. The latter is more modern, with an abrasion resistant sleeving, but a little less pliable than the Standard cable. Read the intro blurb for each, and make your mind up. (think I'd go standard). Then choose a wire that is greater than 15A capability. Then choose Green (!) and the length you want.
http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/category/10
I think you can also get 15A automotive wire from Halfords... and maybe Maplins.
(2) You'll need to insulate the joints you'll be making, and I'd recommend you use HEAT SHRINK TUBING. Go to the same link above, and within 'Sleeving' menu find 'Heat Shrink Sleeving'. Choose the colour, diameter and length. (This diameter will approx halve when heated, don't forget, it'll initially have to fit over your 'bulky' (ish) soldered joint. Ie don't skimp on the diameter)
(you can also get heat shrink tubing from Maplins)
(3) You'll need a 40W soldering iron + solder..... Maplins / Halfords, < £15 or so
(4) Wire strippers.... Maplins / Halfords, £5 tops.
(5) Black insulation tape to bind the loom back together @ the end of the repair.
What you do...
Cut back the existing loom external / main black insulation up & down the abraided earth wire until you get a couple of inches of 'Virgin' green wire each end. Cut out the bad bit. (do NOT plan a joint where the loom takes a turn etc - ie choose a straight run)
Strip back about 1cm of insulation on each end, and ensure the copper wire is CLEAN.
Cut a length of your new green wire to splice in, and (again) strip about 1cm of insulation off each end.
'Tin' each of the 4 bare wires individually .. ie heat them with the soldering iron & apply solder.
(if you're not comfortable with soldering try a few joints away from the bike & on the bench until you get happy)
Join one end of your new wire to the existing loom, lay the tinned ends side-by-side and heat with the iron. Apply more solder if you have to.
Cut 2 pieces of your heat insulation tubing, about 3cms each, & slide over new repair wire splice. Move it well up the new splice, ie well away from the heat of your next solder joint.
Solder the second joint. (these joints must look shiny silver on completion, not dull)
If there are any 'sharp' points about your joint send the missus to the shops & nick her nail file to 'make it all better'
Slide each piece of heat shrink tubing over each solder joint & heat with a hair dryer until it shrinks tightly over your repairs. (you can use a match / naked dull flame... but get the tank well away!) (Again, if new to heat shrink tubing play with a few test bits until you've got the hang of it.)
Bind the whole repair area / loom back up with the black insulation tape. Take care with the ultimate routing... you were LUCKY you abraided the earth wire, chances of that happening versus the others!
Pour yourself a beer...
Enjoy!
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thanks think I will go for ... do you think that's suitable
28/0.30, 2.0mm2, 17.5A - cable OD 3.3mm
heat shrink
Int. Dia before Heating 4.8mm, Int. Dia after Heating 2.4mm
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Sounds good. If you are ordering from autoelectrics perhaps (for 81p) also buy a meter of the larger size heat shrink as well - this stuff always comes in handy.
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about to start trying to fix this earth wire and bit concerned...... opened up the loom a lot more and more "rubbing" evident
different places still on the green wire have rubbed through... do we still think its just a bad earth ?
added some more pics of the fuse box and again green wire looks like something has happened
on another wire looks like someone has mended the black wire in sections
need some advice before I start replacing the wire and cleaning up the connections
(http://i974.photobucket.com/albums/ae228/INEEDMOREPICS/PICT0207_zps597f5221.jpg) (http://s974.photobucket.com/user/INEEDMOREPICS/media/PICT0207_zps597f5221.jpg.html)
(http://i974.photobucket.com/albums/ae228/INEEDMOREPICS/PICT0206_zpsd1d3ac7b.jpg) (http://s974.photobucket.com/user/INEEDMOREPICS/media/PICT0206_zpsd1d3ac7b.jpg.html)
(http://i974.photobucket.com/albums/ae228/INEEDMOREPICS/PICT0204_zpsfa66f73e.jpg) (http://s974.photobucket.com/user/INEEDMOREPICS/media/PICT0204_zpsfa66f73e.jpg.html)
(http://i974.photobucket.com/albums/ae228/INEEDMOREPICS/PICT0210_zpsb49cc082.jpg) (http://s974.photobucket.com/user/INEEDMOREPICS/media/PICT0210_zpsb49cc082.jpg.html)
(http://i974.photobucket.com/albums/ae228/INEEDMOREPICS/PICT0209_zps8ed63d2e.jpg) (http://s974.photobucket.com/user/INEEDMOREPICS/media/PICT0209_zps8ed63d2e.jpg.html)
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That last green looks melted to me.
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that's coming out of fusebox hence concerned
bad earth still ?
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Mike - guess you realise you've a fairly big issue here, and from the pics it'd seem your whole earthing system needs renewing. There appears to be so much damage that its a fair bet there's more you can't see.... certainly a replacement 'green' wire through the whole bike appears needed, if not a loom.
What's caused this? Two possibilities come to mind...
(1) the previous owner installed excessive lighting / electrical loads and replaced the Honda rated fuses with higher amperage ones.
.... or, and more likely...
(2) the bike's multiple earthing points were poor / in disrepair.
Up & down the bike there are individual circuits.... denoted & protected by the fuses. Each circuit has its own current rating... eg 15A, 5A... and so on..... and yet they all share the common Earth wire; which is rated @ 15A.
Now, and for arguments sake, if this green (15A) wire was earthed only at the rear mudguard current from the headlamp, indicators, horn, stop, tail, ignition coils, alternator exciter coils etc etc would all be 'sharing' the wire / connection & very quickly it'd overload & melt. (= yours?) If however all the earthing points were good, the front end of the bike's current will earth into the frame @ coils area, the mid bike current around the battery box area, and the rear end into the rear frame earthing point. IE a 'concentration' of current would never be allowed to build over the length the wire.
Very, very over simplistic, I know, but hopefully an illustration. (think of a busy motorway with all slip roads blocked.. it'll soon overload as traffic can't bleed off of it)
The integrity of your earthing wire is very much in doubt, and a repairing of the visible damage will still leave the invisible bits waiting to fail. Bad news, but whilst you've the bike in bits now is the time to fettle it. Other folk may have different views, but given the loom may be 35 years old with brittle insulation, fatigued wires about the steering head, dirty connectors etc maybe just bite the bullet & order a replacement loom for peace of mind. Failing this, run a new green earth wire to all user points in parallel to the old / burned out wire.
Crappy, I know. See what others have to say, hopefully there may be a better way forward.
Simon
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hi
thanks for info, time to stop and think.
It appears the green wire damage goes to the coil?
fusebox green wire again looks hot shall we say.........
so I have another spare loom but not sure how good that one is will have to open it up.
if I have to use new loom looks like I will have to wire up clocks which I am concerned is beyond me
will await more opinions :)
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Mike, mine was the same. I got hold of a new fuse box and replaced all the earth wire. It is weird because mine looked identical to what you are showing in your pictures.
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did you take any pics.... how does/did buying a new fusebox solve the issue ?
want to learn about electrics
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Don't know what caused the problem in the first place. The fuse box was melted and beyond repair. I picked a NOS one from a German Honda dealer for £25.
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The strange thing i found Mike, was in picture 4 the green wire goes from the block connector to a bundle of green wires (take the tape off and your see a soldier blob) but no other green wires are damaged. And i see from your picture, no other green wires are burnt.
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Just one other thought Mike, and am wondering whether all this damage can be a result of a regulator failure.... ie the alternator is producing full power all of the time. This though would quickly trash the battery... did that happen? Trigger, did you replace any other electrical components @ the time you replaced the fuse box / service the electrics (eg cleaning up grounding points)?
Many 550 owners on here (I'm not), is this a common fault gents?
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Mine is all ok. I changed the rectifier a long time ago but I can't remember why now. It's from a 750.
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lobo cant answer that question bike sat since 1983 ?
who knows whats happened since ?
hopefully geting a new fuse box from member going to attempt to replace al lthe green wire through out the loom and clean up al lcontacts and sort out grounding points
if that dont work the bike will appear in parts on ebay
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Lobo, i am in the same boat as Mike. I don't know any history of my bike, apart from the loom was butched to hell. I found No burnt wire's from the regulator or rectifier, only from the fuse box to the connecting block and from the block to the multi join of earth wires. Which is the connection that is soldered.
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bedtime video
any evidence of rectifier damage ? I am not so sure
thinking bad earth........
getting interesting though ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1VFYYaxDys&feature=youtu.be
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Just replace the green. You won't be able to tell until it runs. I doubt a bad rectifier would cause that. It's been a short or reversed polarity.
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The RECTIFIER changes the alternator's output from AC to DC.
The REGULATOR then regulates the voltage (which otherwise would rise unchecked with alternator speed) to a maximum of approx 14.5V. If OEM its a fairly mechanical device with breaker points within which should close at around 14.5V; this is adjustable vis a small screw. The points also need to be gapped / cleaned if the device not performing to spec.
Mike; I'm NOT saying this is the problem, but I am suggesting, if no other obvious causes to check out the REGULATOR.
As a simple 'starter for 10' if you open it up & find the points stuck / seized in the 'up' position you may have your answer. (although if 'ok' on this test you'll still need to verify they close @ 14.5'ish volts later on)
Simon
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understood, i will check out regulator and rectifier and re wire, make sure all contacts are clean good clean earth contacts if that dont work i will chop it up ;)
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The most common reason for the loom earth lead to melt, especially if all others are OK, is a bad connection on the main earth lead at the engine end meaning that that small green wire takes starter current
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...that makes a lotta sense, especially given the other leads ok.
Anyways, not an answer, but a read ..
http://www.dansmc.com/electricaltesting.htm
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The main earth lead wire was caked in grease, mud and grot, very flaky
also the melted wire goes back to the earth point at coils, so it ties up :)
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.... that's Bryan for you; a man of few words, but when he says them they count!
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+1 with Bryan on that. it seems fairly unimportant until it goes wrong!
older cars are like this as well and it usually fries even the thottle cable as it tries to scavenge an earth conection any way that offers a path back to the battery.
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Yep, Bryan must be spot on ;)because i have had every electric part tested and can not find any problems.
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got a new rectifier and getting consistent results..... looks like old rectifier was indeed faulty or damaged
now also thinking wire section on back of regulator needs looked at and may just change this
anyone have a spare or tell me what other bikes I can look at to get this section
(http://i974.photobucket.com/albums/ae228/INEEDMOREPICS/PICT0210_zpsb49cc082.jpg) (http://s974.photobucket.com/user/INEEDMOREPICS/media/PICT0210_zpsb49cc082.jpg.html)
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http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NOS-75-77-HONDA-CB550F-77-78-CB550K-SUB-WIRE-WIRING-HARNESS-32105-390-000-/201014721944?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2ecd693d98
Not cheap, repair yours
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Here is one. He turned down my offer of £9.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HONDA-CB550-REGULATOR-AND-WIRING-SETUP-CB550F-1976-/251442431228?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item3a8b2304fc
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I saw that as well
I thought that might have been you, you reckon that would work on k3 though ?
looks same connections?
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Same part numbers. Then you can send me your old one and i'll repair it.