Post by: Lobo on January 09, 2023, 12:13:39 PM
So, I want to replace the worn steel / bendy tubes with a continuous nylon one, with no joins, ie accel pedal to carb arm. And here’s the question… should I be lubing the ss cable in any way? And if so, what oil / grease please?
Desperately hoping it can all be kept clean / dry!
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on January 09, 2023, 01:06:12 PM
I ask as firstly Nylon absorbs small amounts of water when it gets wet causing binding in some applications - I know this as Nylon bearings were used on tin openers in the late 1960's by a local firm - they were great during factory testing but when they went into production after a few washes in the sink even Charles Atlas could not turn the handle.
I would have thought a Pneumatic system might be better as used in the early Hillman Imp accelerator pedal it was a great throttle action but the materials used in the bellows failed so they were replaced with a cable. Newer generation materials might be more effective in bellows design.
.
http://ckdboats.blogspot.com/2013/02/the-hillman-imp-pneumatic-throttle-foot.html
Post by: Matt_Harrington on January 09, 2023, 01:34:02 PM
Post by: Orcade-Ian on January 09, 2023, 01:36:19 PM
Surely there's some electronics geek on this forum who might help with a modern solution for your V Dub?
Model aeroplanes use servomotors which should be able to cope with moving the linkage on the carb. A throttle potentiometer could be used to accurately measure how far the pedal is being pressed. A model aircraft would then need radio control the marry the two pieces of info but yours can be hard wired, with some kind of electrickery in between.
Ian
Post by: K2-K6 on January 09, 2023, 01:43:05 PM
I feel it's a good shift to move onto a complete sheathed cable end to end in this application, shouldn't be much friction on the predominantly straight run section anyway.
Post by: K2-K6 on January 09, 2023, 06:55:21 PM
Lobo,
Surely there's some electronics geek on this forum who might help with a modern solution for your V Dub?
Model aeroplanes use servomotors which should be able to cope with moving the linkage on the carb. A throttle potentiometer could be used to accurately measure how far the pedal is being pressed. A model aircraft would then need radio control the marry the two pieces of info but yours can be hard wired, with some kind of electrickery in between.
Ian
I can see that as most current vehicle use throttle potentiometer often mounted in pedal assembly complete. My son runs a RC nitro car with decent servo for throttle/brake and steering that are quite resilient (36,000rpm, non scale speed near 50mph with alot of vibes and heat) and so hardware potential.
The car systems from my knowledge usually run into the ecu though with startup checks on position etc to verify neutral operations, how that could be incorporated is likely more difficult for a road vehicle.
It looks to me more like a hydraulic clutch type application, with master and slave, plus long roll of flexible hose. That would be "self zero" effectively and could be designed with non used cable left detached for contingency. The hydraulic advantage over cable being almost nil friction in use and using automotive tested components.
Post by: Bryanj on January 09, 2023, 07:46:17 PM
Post by: K2-K6 on January 09, 2023, 08:58:50 PM
Remeber the first Hillman Imp, they had air hydraulic throttle that left you pumping the pedal to get revs!
My dad's friend had an imp that had some difficulties ;D but I was too young to remember the details of what exactly was wrong.
Post by: K2-K6 on January 09, 2023, 09:01:38 PM
[attachimg=1]
Apparently used in USA hotrodding applications, seems simple enough concept wise.
Post by: Lobo on January 09, 2023, 09:09:28 PM
Wrt electronic throttle system, two issues come to mind. (1) it could have severe legal implications in the event of any accident unless fully declared both to the insurance co - (who would likely then decline) and also Land Transport - who’d demand inspections and all types of brouhaha. It’s a path I don’t want to go down. But more importantly (2), I want to keep the old girl as standard as possible for both simplicity and authenticity. Purely in the interests of safety I’ve fitted front discs, inertia belts and a modern steering rack - but it has stopped there.
Thoughts appreciated- thanks gents; Ted will test soak my tube for a couple of weeks, it is tho’ 4mm ID to carry a 1.5mm cable and so plenty of tolerance.
Post by: Lobo on January 09, 2023, 09:10:21 PM
Post by: K2-K6 on January 09, 2023, 09:20:49 PM
… cross posting - is that Hydraulic Nige?
Yes, throttle is hydraulic, seems it's more common in earth moving equipment to use a hydraulic throttle too. That "moon" example appears to be from the custom car scene.
Post by: K2-K6 on January 09, 2023, 09:27:10 PM
Remembering some years ago on Tomorrow's world, they had a guy trying to walk in football boots with ptfe studs on a stainless steel surface and without any success as demonstration of almost complete lack of friction.
Trivia, once working for a company completing warranty work at houses, knocked on a door and William Woolard opened it :)
Also the Sweeny, John Thaw at another. Not on the same day you'll understand, that would be freaky ;D
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on January 09, 2023, 11:50:08 PM
Remeber the first Hillman Imp, they had air hydraulic throttle that left you pumping the pedal to get revs!
My dad's friend had an imp that had some difficulties ;D but I was too young to remember the details of what exactly was wrong.
The Hillman Imp was a great motor close to the end of its production run - I had one as a loan car back in the 1960's - the transaxle seized on the M1 on my way to Bradford.
They overheated if the radiator was not bled properly etc.etc.
My cousin had a 998 Rallye Imp it cheesed me off as it could out perform my tweaked Cooper S - even on corners in the right hands.
Allegedly the air throttles failed due to the supplier cutting corners on the specifications not due to poor design.
Post by: Lobo on January 10, 2023, 11:46:41 PM
Thanks Nige for the PTFE outer idea, I’ve been on eBay and securing lengths >2m seems to be the issue, though I have found a 5m run from China (prob infers a ‘no’ that). Q - is this material hard, ie will it resist the odd light knock and NOT deform around light radiuses? I saw a hardness factor of 55, but tbh have no inkling of what that means practically.
Post by: Johnny4428 on January 11, 2023, 09:22:05 AM
If the (Scottish) Unions hadn’t disrupted the Imp’s production as much as they did, the car could have been better than the mini - so various clips of YouTube suggest. I owe it a lot, especially after hundreds of hours spannering, and hundred more sanding, filling and painting. Happy days.
Thanks Nige for the PTFE outer idea, I’ve been on eBay and securing lengths >2m seems to be the issue, though I have found a 5m run from China (prob infers a ‘no’ that). Q - is this material hard, ie will it resist the odd light knock and NOT deform around light radiuses? I saw a hardness factor of 55, but tbh have no inkling of what that means practically.
Just think Lobo could have had a BMW Imp now 🤣🤣
Post by: K2-K6 on January 11, 2023, 09:46:43 AM
You can more easily get PU or nylon in larger bore to sheath the ptfe and give measure of protection from outer abrasion, kinking etc and provide an overall solution.
These type of materials are frequently used in pneumatics etc and so may be supply route. We used them in factory environments for air driven machinery, virtually all barrell (metal screwed pipe) disappeared from those systems apart from main distribution from compressors. The small bore has to be run with some radius to avoid kinking but generally the material is highly resistant to most vibration etc. The two together with ptfe internal should give good support from as it increases wall thickness significantly.
We also ran both rigid and flexible chemical system and I used double tubing like this to get under an outside building to building connection that required bunding for groundwater protection risk. I could run a couple of "umbilical" lines through a clear outer to offer containment with visual inspection from leaking primary to arrange attention if required.
More to show the thinking process around using things like this for solution.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on January 11, 2023, 10:43:56 AM
Trivia, once working for a company completing warranty work at houses, knocked on a door and William Woolard opened it :)
Also the Sweeny, John Thaw at another. Not on the same day you'll understand, that would be freaky ;D
Not name dropping - when I worked at Mercedes-Benz of Derby we had a used LWB S600 (V12) in the showroom - it was sold by an American Salesman over the phone to a customer in a hamlet near Surrey.
As two Lexus Saloons (both very old ones) were traded in part exchange I drove to Surrey with the salesman to deliver the Merc so we could bring back the two Lexus Saloons, The address was a cottage name down a country lane in the middle of nowhere. No phone signal fo ring the customer so after a while we pulled up outside this isolated pub in the afternoon.
I went into the pub & asked the Landlord if he knew the address we were looking for - he said he had never heard of it. We had to drive back up the lane for almost 2 miles to get a phone signal - we rang the customers landline number telling him we could not find his address - he said its at the back of the pub on the other side of the 20 ft Leylandai trees.
We drove back to the pub & spotted a well hidden gravel path to one side - as we drove onto the Cottage frontage out came Bob Mortimer to greet us!
Bob Morimer told us the Landlord was just trying to protect his privacy. He was nothing like his TV persona at the time (Shooting Stars) he was more like the Gone Fishing version - he was a pleasant normal person with no vissible sense of humour.
Post by: Lobo on January 11, 2023, 01:05:50 PM
Post by: K2-K6 on January 11, 2023, 04:25:46 PM
Thanks Nige for the further infos. In the last few hours I’ve found a 7mm OD Bowden sheath, nylon lined (25’) which I’ve ordered at a doable £25. It’ll provide the protection I want give the exposed run below the cabin / through the x-beams.
On your way to a solution then at least. Generally examples with handbrake cables fully covered for entire length I find don't give a problem over many years. You'd expect something similar in dirt exclusion and free movement in this as a sensible mod too.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on January 11, 2023, 04:31:24 PM
Post by: K2-K6 on January 11, 2023, 04:39:36 PM
It's funny meeting someone famous as you've nothing in common and they (if in showbis) are not the character you see in their professional life.
Mrs K is embarrassed at me telling people I know Mick Jagger, based on him walking the other way on Wimbledon common once when the tennis was on. I looked at him thinking "that looks like" mj, then "ooh it is mj" realising be doesn't know me from Adam, but recognition that we both now know it's Mick Jagger, and we have nothing in common, eye contact made and slight nod of recognition from me, and him, we walked past.
It must be odd walking around being that well known and dealing with that. Strange life I supose when out in public.
Mrs K's embarrassment is only usurped by her being a stickler for detail as she always publicly corrects me, which is why I say it in the first place ;D
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on January 11, 2023, 05:23:20 PM
Ironically his son dated one of the Bananarama singers - tragically he died in a field in Wales whilst working as a Shepherd of adult sudden death syndrome when he was 21 with his Sheep Dog found by his side. The death was initially treated as suspicious as he was so young.
I believe the Bananarama singer named her son after him many years later. Sadly Tony died a couple of years ago he hailed from the Bristol area.
Post by: Lobo on January 11, 2023, 09:38:02 PM
Good god, are our missuses related???
Post by: K2-K6 on January 11, 2023, 10:44:40 PM
Quote: Mrs K's embarrassment is only usurped by her being a stickler for detail as she always publicly corrects me.;D ;D ;D
Good god, are our missuses related???
Mrs K's mum was a school head too, and well practiced in telling people off. I think she was well trained also strictly risk averse, I even get tutted for crossing the road "freestyle" in London as she will always go to an appropriate crossing point :D A character of quite considerable habit to which I have to give prior warning of deviation if I'm not to get into trouble. And if she wasn't listening, I get the blame fir not informing of said deviation anyway.
I've a miss K too, 17 going on 30 when it comes to telling me what I should be doing, which I'm very resistant to. More of a rebel though and loves going on the bike with me.
Son, 20 and more amenable, plus interest in all things mechanical etc and studying design at a London University, gives me an easier time.
My list of things not done keeps me busy though ;D Ahem, Mrs K's list in reality ;D
Post by: Lobo on January 12, 2023, 11:49:59 PM
Post by: SteveD CB500K0 on January 13, 2023, 07:25:06 AM
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Post by: Oddjob on January 13, 2023, 11:50:12 AM
Post by: Laverdaroo on January 13, 2023, 12:45:59 PM
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Post by: Bryanj on January 13, 2023, 03:16:19 PM
Post by: Matt_Harrington on January 13, 2023, 04:26:06 PM
I married a bitch:o :)
Post by: Laverdaroo on January 14, 2023, 01:01:15 AM
I married a woman 24 years younger than me, he says hands shaking
;D ;D
Post by: Sesman on January 14, 2023, 07:39:19 AM
Post by: taysidedragon on January 14, 2023, 11:37:32 AM
I married a nurse, programme manager, works manager, quality control executive, time and motion manager, clark of works……….
🤣🤣 Me too! Don't forget the accountant. 🤔