Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB500/550 => Topic started by: zebedee85 on September 01, 2017, 07:45:47 AM
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Hi all - I'm having a horrible morning - opened garage to find petrol smell and fuel dripping from the bike. I have the tank off and it looks like a badky placed wiring loom cable tie has worn a groove in the under side, and it is seeping from there.
Any ideas on repair? I finding a replacement tank is likely going to be impossible.
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Find a good old welder, as it is on the underside it should be a easy repair.
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Find a good old welder, as it is on the underside it should be a easy repair.
How do you do that without guaranteeing this doesn't happen? Any ideas?
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The old myth then Ash,
Drain the tank, leave it a couple of days to air the fumes, wash out with diesel. Petrol on its own doesn't catch alight, the fumes do ;)
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The old myth then Ash,
Drain the tank, leave it a couple of days to air the fumes, wash out with diesel. Petrol on its own doesn't catch alight, the fumes do ;)
I thought when you emptied a tank you would have fumes left ....Problem with diesel is I think it would be it would contaminate the weld. Heard of people filling with water but that causes flash rusting .. maybe a swill with DeoxC after flushing.
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I got some mega cheap silver content braze off eBay last year from a guy who used it for repairing fridges. Beauty of it is it brazes easily with a Mapp gas burner. Wish I had bought more as he's sold out now . It was square section about 3mm. Perfect for tank repairs.
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The old myth then Ash,
Drain the tank, leave it a couple of days to air the fumes, wash out with diesel. Petrol on its own doesn't catch alight, the fumes do ;)
I thought when you emptied a tank you would have fumes left ....Problem with diesel is I think it would be it would contaminate the weld. Heard of people filling with water but that causes flash rusting .. maybe a swill with DeoxC after flushing.
I done a couple of Landrover petrol tanks years ago, left it empty for a couple of days, the pumped a load of CO2 into it (had a large bottle attached to the mig welder) theory being the CO2 displaces any residual petrol fumes. Certainly worked, no scary moments welding them.
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I brazed up a Ford Escort III tank. I just flushed out the tank with hot water and detergent and it was OK. More steam than petrol fumes. Brazing is preferable because of the lower temperature involved which won't affect the paint if you're careful.
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Thanks guys, you have given me some hope! I have spent a long time ironing out problems and getting the bike fully up to scratch, including a top end re-build and a subsequent change of rocker cover. I spent an hour tuning the carbs yesterday which went very well. It was only after I brimmed the tank for a long journey tomorrow (hah!) that the problem was exposed with petrol on the floor this morning, all a bit heartbreaking really.
Dave Clarke Motorcycles in Oxford recommended a good welder to me, waiting on them to call me back.
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I've seen people doing "in the field" repairs on fuel tanks by emptying and then running a car exhaust into the tank to neutralise the vapour.
If it's near paint and risks heat transfer affecting the paint, you can get heat absorbing putty to put on the paint to stop it going over temp. I've seen this done along a tank seam next to the paint without any paint discolouring.
It's quite common to repair classic car fuel tanks by using lead solder and maybe a patch if the tank is perforated. Someone in that field will have the confidence to work on it for you if you research in that direction.
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I've welded a few tanks, as said wash with soapy water does it. Heard of the hose pipe from running engine exhaust to purge the oxygen but never needed it.
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Well - I took the tank to a recommended welder, having washed it out with soapy water and let it vent for a while.
They have blown it up. (the guy is ok, didn't check for fumes, didn't open the lid, didn't call me to ask for the key to open the top, just took a torch to it).
Obviously a new tank is going to be impossible to find.
What are my options - will a 400f tank fit? Are there tank fabricators who will make a one off? Has one of you got a tank in good nick? Do you know someone who might?
Absolutely gutted today.
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That is seriously bad news. Obviously not as competent as you were led to believe. Any welder who has a clue should have checked it before getting a welding torch anywhere near it. Are they a business? if so, they should have insurance to pay towards a replacement tank! :o :o
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Yes they are a business, the guy had a tank blow up in his face, I didn't push the insurance question, but I did remonstrate on the safety checks. I will see him tomorrow. I wonder if it is possible that the under side of the tank could be cut out and new metal welded in.
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They have commited a serious breach of health and safety by not ensuring the tank was clear of fumes and ruined a customer's tank as a result. Granted it probably scared the crap out of him, but they are legally liable for causing such damage, in spite of any verbal agreement. Personally I would push it to their insurers, and if they get funny about it, tell them you will report them for health and safety breaches, and mention it to the local fire station, they would take it VERY seriously, especially as there are compressed gases on the premises. Sounds harsh, it you may have a hard time finding another half decent tank, and when you do, it won't be cheap.
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Thanks Oddjob - I'l add to watch list. There is another on ebay which is already primed and ready to go. I will see what the guy says about insurance claims. Ideally he would front the purchase of a new tank, and the respray.
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Well - I took the tank to a recommended welder, having washed it out with soapy water and let it vent for a while.
They have blown it up. (the guy is ok, didn't check for fumes, didn't open the lid, didn't call me to ask for the key to open the top, just took a torch to it).
You are bloody joking right!!!?? And welding a tank with the cap on - without knowing whether it was washed out!!?? REALLY!
This is a wind up surely?
Assuming it did happen what is wrong with the tank? you ask if it can have the bottom cut out and new metal welded in? If the bottom can be cut out, which is possible, then why not straighten it and weld it back in. As said previously, you won't see the repair.
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I can't believe it either, my first reaction was that I had left fuel in there and that I hadn't sorted it properly. That's not fair though, he should have checked everything.
I am going down there at 5. I'll know the situation soon enough. The damage depends largely on the amount of fumes I suppose. The guy said the bang was enough to give him ringing in the ears, and says the bottom of the tank is 'completely f'cked'. I'm expecting the worst, where the bottom is blown out and the sides buckled upwards (well downwards relative to the correct tank orientation) and outwards.
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There's this one at DK, so at least it's in the U.K., not pretty, but will get you going, or you can fill and paint it first. E Bay number 332198702442
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The guy is going to look for spares and discuss the insurance. He is suggesting I didn't wash it out well enough basically which is immaterial. Risk is on them. Ill keep amd eye on the usual suspects, there seems to be a swiss specialist on eebs. Bit risky though. Ill post pics later when I can resize.
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Is it a CB550K or a CB550F, I'm presuming it's the F model but at a pinch you can fit the 500 style tank to it but you also need to change the seat to the 500 one as well. Just an idea in case your struggling to find an F type tank.
Just found this, looks ok and reasonably priced.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GAS-TANK-HONDA-CB550F-CB550-CB-550-F-SUPER-SPORT-FUEL-CELL-/382213539953?hash=item58fdb3c871:g:mPEAAOSwCkZZVrhb
Never seen one with that lip around the filler hole, was it a requirement for the Canadian market .
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I couldn't believe it either. If there were no petrol fumes in the tank it would still be unwise to weld it with the filler cap on because the air is going to expand. That's how people win Darwin awards.
http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/
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What iv learnt recently is treat everyone as incompetent and full of bull. Hold there hand every step of the way.
When I read they welded it with the cap on I also thought you where joking
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What a numpty! I've gas welded a land rover tank before now, not to mention cut up a few oil tanks with a plasma cutter, first thing I did on every occasion was open every vent, verify emptiness and setup away from anything that might also burn - right out in the yard, not in the shed at all. Not removing the cap, oh dear. I guess this makes tank sealer more tempting an option.
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Oh sh*t ..Thank God he wasn't hurt. Don't you just hate entrusting other people with your rare parts. Hope you find something suitable to replace it.
BTW Graham ... Quote of the week "The old myth then Ash"
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Which model bike do you have because not all 550 tanks are the same size? There are some on ebay but none of them are cheap. Supply and demand I'm afraid.
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Did spot this one, maybe the vendor will do you a BIN price >>> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-CB-550-K-Petrol-Tank-/263189194643?hash=item3d474c6793:g:zV8AAOSwmPdZrwJu
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I have a CB550F1 - I believe the F and later K's to be the same but I could be wrong.
I'd go for this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-CB-550-K-Petrol-Tank-/263189194643?hash=item3d474c6793:g:zV8AAOSwmPdZrwJu if it weren't for the fact that I'm waiting to find out if the guy is gong to find me a replacement and pay for it. It all gets a bit complicated. Or I could just buy this and spend me own money and forget it. Not ideal though.
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Make sure that they are not bidding against you, as he won't find a good replacement that easy. Don't let the muppet get away with it, any good welder would know not to weld any sealed container.
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I've lead soldered a tank before with a blow torch but left the lid open. I put the empty tank out in the sun for a few days with lid open and to check, put my nose in the hole before I started. All fuel had evaporated. Do not use detergent, it can form an emulsion with the residual fuel and trap it into the container rather than wash it out.
Also, I have sucessfully repaired a leaking seam on a tank with araldite, it seems completely inpervious to petrol.
No one should apply heat to a sealed box. Perhaps they are too young to remember what a steam engine is. I hope you are properly compensated.
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Here is the damage
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Ooh, one seriously obese looking tank!
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Yep, unfortunately that's a skip job, the top is wrecked too.
any good welder would know not to weld any sealed container.
+1
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That welder needs to go back to college and listen this time.
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We reached an agreement. I have decided to purchase a NOS from CMS. I must be insane.
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You'll have to be quick, only one left!
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A few tanks here
https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-cb550-tank/k0
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Well - for those interested, I have the bike back on the road, and ironed out the issues from the top end rebuild. New tank is fine (though I had to steal the 750s petcock because the old tank had a different size one. From when I bought it, a fairly well preserved example which ran like crap and leaked oil from many places to oil-tight nearly-new performance:
https://youtu.be/jMd8tn1D8Bo (https://youtu.be/jMd8tn1D8Bo)
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Looks and sounds sweet :) I am doing the later F2 at the moment and can't find a OEM exhaust system for it.
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I live in fear of the day that mine gives up the ghost, or I damage it. Now with motad out of business...
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I live in fear of the day that mine gives up the ghost, or I damage it. Now with motad out of business...
A lot of people remove the OEM pipes and fit a Motad, which are still available at some parts suppliers. There is a member on here that had a stainless steel one made to original spec.
Here is a very nice one but, still on the bike >>> http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C913871
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First job I had when I left school was working at a petrol tank laminators. Back then you couldn't get pattern tanks and manufacturer's new tanks were too expensive. We were mad busy all day every day, there was a massive diesel powered pressure washer which I used. It had a detergent tank and produced high pressure steam. We'd remove the petrol tanks, take out the senders and thoroughly wash and rinse the tanks out, grind off all the paint, braze any holes or plate large patches and then laminate the whole tank in fibre glass mat and then tissue, finish off painting in gloss black.
The end result used to look pretty good but when pattern tanks came out they were more or less the same price, still did the odd car with a rare tank but eventually the firm folded. In the time I was there despite all the precautions we still had two tanks explode. One time we ran out of detergent & diesel so I was told just to give the tank a thorough wash with the steam cleaner set to high pressure cold wash. The welder lit the oxy/acet torch and went to scrape the torch tip on the tank filler pipe. Bang, the tank ripped apart at the seam and he suffered flash burns to his face and hands, all his hair and eyebrows singed off. Obviously I got the blame and a good bollocking. Made me very cautious when I started welding them.
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I have a tank that I'm going to put on ebay next Sunday. Fits K3,K4, F1-F2 (Don't know about F3). Solid. Small bits of surface rust. 2 dints that hardly show on the photos - both fillable but one may pull out. Inside bright shiny steel.