Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => Other Bikes => Topic started by: Orcade-Ian on June 09, 2016, 09:31:08 PM
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I have a scruffy looking Honda CBX 250RSE and the lower part of the frame around the centre stand and swing arm is very poor. It could be stripped and repaired but I have the chance of another frame without docs but clearly visible numbers.
I know that DVLA would slap a Q plate on this if it was a modern bike or car, but does anyone know for definite if they will allow a frame change and keep the original reg on old stuff?
It seems a shame to hack out the good bits of this frame to stitch into the other one.
The frames are only a few hundred numbers apart and same year.
Ian
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I would braze over the numbers, file it flat, paint over it and say nowt.
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Yes,
I have that option but the tatty frame has no VIN tag whereas the excellent one has a very crisp original one with the slightly higher number so that would have to go too. Rather than start down that route I was just putting a toe in the water to see if anyone had done it 'legit' via the DVLA without being issued with a Q plate.
Ian
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Do you by chance know (or can find out) the registration number on the new frame?
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Or you could try the way guys that register imports. Get a dating letter from Honda, and send it to dvla with a v5 application, that way there would be no reason to issue a Q plate.
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DVLA will only accept a frame change if it is new and the original number is stamped in, unless you can get the reg number for the frame you will have to go the dating cert way and then DVLA could be obstinate and source the original number for the frame and give you that back
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I would be happy to go the dating cert route but does anyone have a record anywhere of the frame number/reg number tie up to find the original number that this frame would have been issued with?
I know the Plod can trace dumped and burned out cars just from the vin number, so can they do that for this frame?
Otherwise I'll have take a more simple route ;)
Ian
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Both plod and DVLA CAN search a vin number but neither will tell you what the reg should be, I have before asked my local plod to check if a vin number was stolen or not and they have confirmed that but not the reg
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Thanks for that Bryan,
I suspected that would be the case with Plod - data protection and all that crap, although who it's designed to protect always seems very one sided. Probably have to take the easy option then.
Thanks also to all others who replied,
Ian
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Dvla are inconsistent on this. They did allow me to change the frame number on my bike but wanted to inspect it, I was unable to get the bike to the inspection site, so eventually fixed my original frame but found come Mot that the v5 to v5c change or at some point around then they had gone ahead and filed the paperwork to keep mý reg number and the new ( by now discarded ) frame number. They then agreed to re assosiate my original frame number - the reg plate remained constant. I was very clear that all the components were off the one bike, just the frames had moved.
Probably easier to fix the frame that matches the paperwork then deal with that hornets nest though, they are very variable, 1 time you deal with someone decent then next time it seems you get a complete twit, hell bent on making life difficult.
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Thanks for that update,
As you say they are very inconsistent but by coincidence the VJMC magazine just arrived today and a guy has just re-framed an early GL1000 GoldWing and asked DVLA what to do and even though it was a secondhand frame, he was apparently told to just fill in section 7 on the V5c, send it in and would receive a new document in 4 weeks. It's only the first instalment of his story, so I don't know if he succeeded with paperwork or not. He'll not be a happy bunny after all that work if someone else deals with it in another way! It does actually beg the question as to why there is a section 7 for a vin/chassis/frame number change on the doc.
Ian
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What you need Ian is a nice friendly police officer who will find the reg for you and say nothing. Then you can apply for a lost V5 and away you go. Isn't it ridiculous that DVLA wont just do it for you, you should just have to prove that you legally own the frame. Bloody red tape again.
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Hi Roy,
Yes, I have used that option for occasional help in the past but now, all searches are logged and checked and unless justified can lead to the helpful investigator receiving a black mark on their record. I'm beginning to wish my Dad had never registered my birth so I could keep under the radar :). How long will it be before boatloads of escaping Brits are being rescued on European shores?
Ian
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... a guy has just re-framed an early GL1000 GoldWing and asked DVLA what to do ...
Personally I think I'd have asked DVLA what to do before going through the reframe process ....
A few years ago I sold some parts to a guy and got chatting about frames. Seems he sometimes built trikes and to him the most important part of a frame was the headstock because that was the part which carried the frame number - with a frame number and docs he was in business. So if the paperwork route sounds like a major headache then a possible alternative may be to swap just the headstock from the existing frame to the new, keeping the frame number that goes with the docs. I've read parts of Ian's web site and it seems there are not many jobs he won't tackle, and for the others he usually 'knows a man that can'.
Just a thought, maybe an alternative way forward.
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Thanks Chris for thinking I tackle most jobs - which I usually do, but I think I will pass on cutting out a headstock tube and welding in another which would involve some serious jig work. I would have a go at the lower frame section though if that became necessary. I have thought about just sending off the V5 with a frame change and see what happens. If they insist on MSVA, an inspection and a Q plate I'll tell them I won't bother as it would be rather difficult living in Orkney and just keep the original. As I haven't actually bought this frame yet, I might yet just break the damn thing, for although they are quite rare it doesn't really float my boat - plenty fours to go at yet!
Ian
Just a thought - I have a spare 350 four frame with log book (tax exempt too), so a cafe racer with this DOHC twin carb single motor might be nice!
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File over both numbers and stamp the old number on the replacement frame. I have a Honda I bought off the internet and when I took it for an MOT I discovered there was no frame number on the headstock and no vin plate. I rang up the DVLA who told me to stamp the number on the V5 onto the headstock. I did that, got it MOT'd and as far as I and the DVLA are concerned that is the end of the matter. In short the DVLA had absolutely no interest in why my frame had no number.
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Thanks for that, I might just ask them what to do with no frame number showing and see what they say.
Ian
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I don't think you can get an MOT without a frame (VIN) number , the previous post although I'm sure done in good faith doesn't sound legal, I'm sure trigger will comment soon he is well versed in such matters.
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Yes Mark you are spot on about an mot but what I was saying was that I might ask them what to do with a non visible frame number when I have the v5 with the number on - if that makes sense.
Best not say any more,
Ian
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My lips are sealed, didn't see nuffin guvnor.
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I replaced a frame on a C90 with a brand new one, it didn't come with a number stamped on it so I had to stamp the number on myself. I used the original number as that frame was scrapped.
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I replaced a frame on a C90 with a brand new one, it didn't come with a number stamped on it so I had to stamp the number on myself. I used the original number as that frame was scrapped.
That is the totally correct and legal way of doing it. Changing the identity of a frame with an existing number is legally a no no, basically you could be attempting to conceal a stolen vehicle as plod would see it.
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Sorry if I worded that confusingly Oddjob. If you buy a frame from Honda it has no number stamped on it, you are supposed to stamp the number of the damaged frame on it, then destroy the old frame. Putting a different number on a previously stamped frame IS illegal.