Honda-SOHC
Other Stuff => Desperately Seeking!! => Topic started by: DomP on October 26, 2023, 09:12:37 AM
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I may be needing a new set of barrels that I can get bored out to 0.5 oversize if anyone has a set in good condition?
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Thought Bryan had done some for you?
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The liners were the hardest i have ever come across Ken and it rippled a bit at the bottom which i didnt notice, i think they might be ok at next size but Dom would like to stay at 0.5.
Ive said i will sort it no matter what for him
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Dom sent me some pics Bry and TBH it looks like they didn't clear at 0.5mm, there are black areas and they should all look uniform grey.
I suggested fitting some spare liners in the bad cylinders, I have a couple spare. Then get those rebored to suit. What do you think?
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It was only when I ran my finger around them with some oil that I fet the ripples, if you have then available Ken and Bryan is happy to bore them out to .5 oversize. I could get these two out and shrink the replacements in before posting them back to Bryan (that journey to Gloucester is going to get me a speeding ticket if I do it much more, narrowly escaped a van on the way in last time)
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Would probably work Ken but i dont have an oven to put them in mate, going that way there is a set of barrels on fleabay at 35 with fin damage so change all 4 and start again
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Do you think the sheer hardness caused them to move Bryan?
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Would probably work Ken but i dont have an oven to put them in mate, going that way there is a set of barrels on fleabay at 35 with fin damage so change all 4 and start again
I was thinking it would be easier if I swapped the liners over then post them on to you Bryan
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Not move as such but make the cutter "bounce"
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I've offered the liners FOC to Dom Bryan, seems only fair, it's not like I'd ever get round to using them after my own barrels had to be scrapped. They'd have only gathered dust and been thrown out eventually, at least this way they go to a good home and a good cause.
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Thanks so much Ken! Do you have any 8 x 14 and 6 x 10 dowels?😖
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Not move as such but make the cutter "bounce"
Sometimes when doing worktop joints the router can do a similar thing, happens in a flash and not much you can do about it.
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I knew when cutting they were f*!^ing hard even with new carbide cutter and diamond stone hones but must admit to only checking at top after finish carbide hone, my bad, Dom aint paying for any further work/postage
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8 x 14 are casing dowels, like rotor case and clutch case.
https://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cb550f1-super-sport-550-four-1976-england_model17113/dowel-pin-8x14_9430108140/
Is the 6 x 10 the knock pin which goes into the sprocket cover? Those never seem to be removed in my experience.
https://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cb550f1-super-sport-550-four-1976-england_model17113/pin-knock-6x10b_9430206100/
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Found some casing dowels, 3 of them
I also found some 6 x 10 solid dowels but they ain't from the casing, they are the pins used in the 500 gearbox selector forks, the ones which run in the grooves of the selector drum. The only difference I can spot is that the genuine dowel pins have a slight chamfer on the edges, most likely to help them locate. You could file those onto the new ones easily.
I'll put them in the box.
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Found some casing dowels, 3 of them
I also found some 6 x 10 solid dowels but they ain't from the casing, they are the pins used in the 500 gearbox selector forks, the ones which run in the grooves of the selector drum. The only difference I can spot is that the genuine dowel pins have a slight chamfer on the edges, most likely to help them locate. You could file those onto the new ones easily.
I'll put them in the box.
Thanks Ken!
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Posted today Dom £4.19.
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Posted today Dom £4.19.
Arrived today Ken, payment sent over. Ken to the rescue!!
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Don't forget to remove the orings at the base of the liners Dom, before you put the barrels in the oven. Then of course, don't forget to fit new ones after the work is complete. New liners in the freezer, pop out old ones when the barrels are hot and knock the new ones in with a block of wood until they are flat. Make sure the top hat groove in the barrels is clean when you knock out the old ones, for some reason they collect crap which leaks down past the lip.
You're supposed to have the head skimmed after fitting new liners, just to make sure they are flat. I'm not saying it's needed, never done liners myself, yet anyway. So long as they are flat they may e fine, maybe a straight edge across the surface will show whether they are or not.
Before putting barrels in the oven, make sure they are clean as possible or you'll make a lot of fumes which don't smell that nice. Don't ask me how I know that :D :D
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Graham always skims after changing liners.
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He may do but that doesn’t mean it’s needed. It could be just a precaution.
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Don't forget to remove the orings at the base of the liners Dom, before you put the barrels in the oven. Then of course, don't forget to fit new ones after the work is complete. New liners in the freezer, pop out old ones when the barrels are hot and knock the new ones in with a block of wood until they are flat. Make sure the top hat groove in the barrels is clean when you knock out the old ones, for some reason they collect crap which leaks down past the lip.
You're supposed to have the head skimmed after fitting new liners, just to make sure they are flat. I'm not saying it's needed, never done liners myself, yet anyway. So long as they are flat they may e fine, maybe a straight edge across the surface will show whether they are or not.
Before putting barrels in the oven, make sure they are clean as possible or you'll make a lot of fumes which don't smell that nice. Don't ask me how I know that :D :D
Thanks Ken, oh I've done the smoking out the kitchen trick a few times!
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He may do but that doesn’t mean it’s needed. It could be just a precaution.
I've swapped over the liners having given the empty barrels a good clean up of the tiny amount of crud that had formed around the lip, really not much. Unfortunately the the two liners ones don't sit flush with the barrels being slightly raised, I gave them a good tap home while hot with a block of softwood and hammer, could hear they mack a positive contact. Looks like a skim is needed😖
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Maybe the barrels have been skimmed before and that would make the new liners sit proud. Ask them to take the minimum off, just enough to make the liners flush. Also get it done before having the bores done as it might make the barrels sit skew on the boring table.
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I will if I can find anywhere near me that can do it, Hereford is my only nearby city if you can call it that
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How about T. S Henderson in Hay on Wye? https://www.tshenderson.com/
Maye give them a bell
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Tried them Ken, still not got back to me, several other places aren't interested in doing the job. Only place so far said £30‐130 and wouldn't commit. Tearing my hair out a bit now
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You need to find someone with a surface grinder Dom as its steel they will be skimming, unlike a normal head skim which is alloy.
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You need to find someone with a surface grinder Dom as its steel they will be skimming, unlike a normal head skim which is alloy.
Ah I wasn't aware of that side of things, that might make it interesting. For now I'm occupied trying to get the dowels back out
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I've tried baking the barrels and slipping a drill bit into the dowel so it doesn't crush while I grip it but it's having none of it. I will not be beaten however.
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You tried Intime engineering in Ledbury Dom? https://www.intime-eng.com/contact/
Or Frank Dawson Engineering, he looks like a small engineer with his own shop. Sometimes they are the best as the big firms just can't be bothered. 01432 343844
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Yes Frank Dawson was one of the better responses I had but the main man wasn't in. I'm working in Hereford tomorrow so may just take it with me.
Got the dowels out but that was a real fight, does a bit of marring inside the dowel hole matter? Going to need new dowels though.
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Just tidy it up Dom, bit of wet and dry made into a tube and run it around the inside of the hole.
I suppose you want a couple of dowels now? Might have some. Will check.
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Just tidy it up Dom, bit of wet and dry made into a tube and run it around the inside of the hole.
I suppose you want a couple of dowels now? Might have some. Will check.
🤣🤣🤣 you have a message in your inbox!
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Found some, in case anyone else was looking.
Fit with a little grease this time Dom.
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What's weird Ken and I've cleaned the liners and the recesses with a fine brass wire brush but even the originals won't tap down quite flush. Maybe they weren't quite before, even tried relocating them, sparp taps with a hammer on a soft block. Maybe a skim will be what they needed in the first place?
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Did you by any chance stand the barrels on the liners when it was in the oven? if so the weight of the casting will allow the liner to move up into the casting as the weight of the casting pulls it downwards. They should be head gasket side down. Plenty of reports of members doing just that when curing new paint only to find the liners had moved.
You could try putting them in the oven again and having another go at tapping them down, maybe the casting was starting to cool by the time you'd removed 2 liners and the cold of the new liners cooled it down enough for the casting to start to grab the liner before it got far enough down. Worth a try.
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I took them out of the oven when very hot and rested it on two pieces of 2x1 softwood to let the liners hang then tapped down with a piece of wood and hammer. If they've rotated could that do it I wonder? They're definitely fully down though.
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What my point is though Dom, did you put it back in the oven after you knocked the old liners out or did you try to fit them AFTER removing the old liners, in which case the old of the new liners could have cooled the metal down enough for it to start to grip the liner, in which case it would sound like it was fully down. Can't hurt to try and heat them back up again and see if they'll drop that little bit you need. Also when knocking the new liners in it's possible even a little knock against the wood underneath could have moved the 2 other liners, enough to pop them up. Sometimes the liner is hard to get out and sometimes they pop out with hardly any force.
I did 2 sets of barrels, the first liner came out ok but needed some force to get it out, same for the next, I thought I'd got used to how much force to use so I hit the 3rd liner with the same amount, it flew out across the workbench and came to rest on a plastic bag full of starter motor parts I'm working on, melted a bloody big hole in it, nearly burnt my hand going to grab it before I remembered it was really hot.
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Got it all hot Ken.
I've had a result today, pretty much a while you wait skim to get the liners flush for £40, he said it just tickled the material of the barrels so absolutely minimal removed. Over to you Bryan!
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Shiney
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Another bonus of that Dom is that as you've reduced the depth of the groove the oring sits in where the oil passage is on each end, the oring will seal better even with an aftermarket head gasket..
Looks a tidy job that, betting that was Frank Dawson, small shops will do stuff like that cash in hand and quick.
My mate sent me a text earlier saying he's done my spare liner and it came out ok, so he's asked for me to take the other 4 to the pub with me tonight so he can reduce the top hat section on those. Result.
Don't forget those liner orings when Bryan has finished with the rebore.
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Another bonus of that Dom is that as you've reduced the depth of the groove the oring sits in where the oil passage is on each end, the oring will seal better even with an aftermarket head gasket..
Looks a tidy job that, betting that was Frank Dawson, small shops will do stuff like that cash in hand and quick.
My mate sent me a text earlier saying he's done my spare liner and it came out ok, so he's asked for me to take the other 4 to the pub with me tonight so he can reduce the top hat section on those. Result.
Don't forget those liner orings when Bryan has finished with the rebore.
Yes Frank Dawson did it, really small friendly place, I had thought that regarding the oil passage o rings too. That's a result then! The pub there's a nice thought!