Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB350/400 => Topic started by: Athame57 on September 22, 2018, 10:47:57 AM
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My front brake is capable of squeaking loud enough to have people looking at me funny sometimes, I bet I'm not going to oil them but what can I do, why does this happen if it's not at the disc?
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CB400/4's are renown for having squeaky front brakes. Some things to check....are the pads glazed, if so, deglaze. Is the floating caliper adjusted correctly giving the correct clearance, if not re adjust. Is the disc warped, if so, get skimmed.
I spent 4 years trying to sort the problem on mine and finally had the disc skimmed which sorted it for about 4 months but it has just started again, albeit intermittently, but that is probably glazed pads this time.
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Which brake pads are you using?
Are they sintered or non sintered?
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Hi - The old remedy for squeaky brakes is to put a light coating of high temperature grease on the metal back of the pad. Copper grease should do the job. Remember kids not on the front.
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Hi - The old remedy for squeaky brakes is to put a light coating of high temperature grease on the metal back of the pad. Copper grease should do the job. Remember kids not on the front.
Yep, I tried that too, made no difference at all.
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Well at least if you hear the screech you know you’re brakes are working ;D
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Are you allowed to make noise in the sleepy hamlet of Horncastle Julie
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Are you allowed to make noise in the sleepy hamlet of Horncastle Julie
Oh yes, and I do quite often ;D ;D. Luckily we actually live in an even sleepier hamlet a few miles outside Horncastle and the Natives are mainly old and deaf, so no problems there either :).
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Are you allowed to make noise in the sleepy hamlet of Horncastle Julie
Oh yes, and I do quite often ;D ;D. Luckily we actually live in an even sleepier hamlet a few miles outside Horncastle and the Natives are mainly old and deaf, so no problems there either :).
Spent a lot of Time in Roughton so I know what you mean ;D
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Are you allowed to make noise in the sleepy hamlet of Horncastle Julie
Oh yes, and I do quite often ;D ;D. Luckily we actually live in an even sleepier hamlet a few miles outside Horncastle and the Natives are mainly old and deaf, so no problems there either :).
Spent a lot of Time in Roughton so I know what you mean ;D
Mareham le Fen, where we live, is a City compared to Roughton !!!
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If anybody can remember the Citroen GS the manufactures idea to stop squeaky brakes was to put two finger lines of Copperslip on either side of the DISC!!!! and yes it worked but they had the high pressure breaking system worked off the suspension. Apparently it stopped the dust collecting in the pad crevasses.
PLEASE NOTE I am NOT recommending this just recounting and old manufactures fix
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Since returning from a fairly lengthy visit to Japan last week, the front brakes are squeaking heavily on both bikes. They were not too bad before being parked up, the discs rotate freely enough so I assume it must be down to the change in temperature (it was in the 30's when I went)?
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The brake on mine has always been noisy, i.e. in the last 23 years of use. It seems that when the caliper is adjusted correctly and the brake is at it's best, it squeaks the most. Turning kinetic energy into sound waves is how these things stop :)
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Turning kinetic energy into sound waves is how these things stop :)
Isn't that what a band does Steve?
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Just had the froont brake apart. Put some silicone lube behind the discs and set the fixed caliper at 0.16 ...still it squeaks!
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Personally I've never found a squeaky front brake an issue, it's when it doesn't squeal you may well have something wrong it such as a pad sticking/not retracting properly, so time to investigate. Plus, in the event of an incident/accident, witnesses will hear the brake and look, and back you up on the fact you WERE braking.
Sent from my X6pro using Tapatalk
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Personally I've never found a squeaky front brake an issue, it's when it doesn't squeal you may well have something wrong it such as a pad sticking/not retracting properly, so time to investigate. Plus, in the event of an incident/accident, witnesses will hear the brake and look, and back you up on the fact you WERE braking.
Sent from my X6pro using Tapatalk
In 1982 while squeaking my way through the Leather Lane market (what a place to go) in London someone threw an orange at me....
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Personally I've never found a squeaky front brake an issue, it's when it doesn't squeal you may well have something wrong it such as a pad sticking/not retracting properly, so time to investigate. Plus, in the event of an incident/accident, witnesses will hear the brake and look, and back you up on the fact you WERE braking.
Sent from my X6pro using Tapatalk
In 1982 while squeaking my way through the Leather Lane market (what a place to go) in London someone threw an orange at me....
You may have been caught in the crossfire of that politician that "allegedly " died during a sex act with an orange tied in his mouth. In all the papers at the time, a right old tale that was. ;D ;D ;D
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Personally I've never found a squeaky front brake an issue, it's when it doesn't squeal you may well have something wrong it such as a pad sticking/not retracting properly, so time to investigate. Plus, in the event of an incident/accident, witnesses will hear the brake and look, and back you up on the fact you WERE braking.
Sent from my X6pro using Tapatalk
In 1982 while squeaking my way through the Leather Lane market (what a place to go) in London someone threw an orange at me....
You may have been caught in the crossfire of that politician that "allegedly " died during a sex act with an orange tied in his mouth. In all the papers at the time, a right old tale that was. ;D ;D ;D
A juicy tale!
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Personally I've never found a squeaky front brake an issue, it's when it doesn't squeal you may well have something wrong it such as a pad sticking/not retracting properly, so time to investigate. Plus, in the event of an incident/accident, witnesses will hear the brake and look, and back you up on the fact you WERE braking.
Sent from my X6pro using Tapatalk
In 1982 while squeaking my way through the Leather Lane market (what a place to go) in London someone threw an orange at me....
You may have been caught in the crossfire of that politician that "allegedly " died during a sex act with an orange tied in his mouth. In all the papers at the time, a right old tale that was. ;D ;D ;D
A juicy tale!
I found it a bit acidic myself !
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Stop taking the pith. it’s no help to someone with a squeaky brake. Try Making some anti squeal shims for the back of the pads.
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Stop taking the pith. it’s no help to someone with a squeaky brake. Try Making some anti squeal shims for the back of the pads.
How do I make them?
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Try these https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LARGE-EBC-ANTI-SQUEAL-SELF-ADHESIVE-BRAKE-PAD-SHIMS-NOISE-REDUCTION-152mm-x-51mm/222026723334?hash=item33b1d2f006:g:ApEAAOSwDuJWxIHK it's easier than getting the shim steel and cutting some out.
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Turning kinetic energy into sound waves is how these things stop :)
Isn't that what a band does Steve?
That's much closer than generally appreciated.
With the original type pads containing resins, then it's this component that comes to the pad surface in "glazing" the surface. This is most closely related to string instruments which are bowed with resin on the bowstring to get it to resonate. It's the disc which is making the sonic performance while being exited by the glazed pads.
The normal way to avoid this is, with new pads, you allow something like 50 miles to get them to conform to the disc surface, then you have to raise the temperature by driving it around with the brake dragging until it gets hot enough to burn out the resins that migrate to the pad surface. It literally sets fire to the resins as they come into contact with the disc.
Once this is done, the bike should be ridden without the brake being used to cool it down and not park it so the pads stick to the disc. Prepared like this, they are much harder to glaze as the resin shouldn't be there.
That's for conventional (resin) pads.
Sintered are different. If you imagine a sintered material as more like a sugar cube, the material is pressed together and under compression plus heat it sticks the material together, largely without resins.
Another problem then exists with these in that most sintered material is (or derived from) formulated to work with disc materials that share the surface wear between the two components. This interaction between the two doesn't really happen on these older more stainless discs, so the pad face doesn't glaze as such (not in the conventional sense of resin coated surface) but ends up really polished and results in a very similar resonance causing effect.
Whether we can use this material aggressively enough in the way these bikes are now ridden I don't know. Ideally they need heavy pressure to encourage the surface to be worn quicker.
In addition to this, most modern discs have much more float built in between the disc and mounting rotor which these don't have. This alone makes them more likely to resonate.
It may not be possible to stop these squeaking in comparison to the 750 for example which due to higher weight and speed combined may tip the balance in regard to pad wear.
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Hi Moorey...I ordered those. Thanks, I'll keep you posted after fitting.
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Which brake pads are you using?
Are they sintered or non sintered?
Are there sintered pads available?
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I tried sintered on my CB400/4, bloody awful and still squeeked, and I had to take the rough edges off with sand paper. Having read K1-K6's in depth analysis of both types of pads, I think I just glaze every type I put in, it must be a girl thing 🙄🙄🙄
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Apologies for reviving this post...but have a question.
I've been "suffering" for a while with the squeaky front brake and decided to change the pads. The new pads came with a big plastic washer? included in the kit, but there was no washer when I removed the old ones.
Should there be one? I have a replacement phenolic piston fitted - would this retract slightly less than the standard one as I couldn't fit the pads in with the new washer in place, so wasn't sure if it is spacer or something.
PS...still squealing...grrr >:(
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Apologies for reviving this post...but have a question.
I've been "suffering" for a while with the squeaky front brake and decided to change the pads. The new pads came with a big plastic washer? included in the kit, but there was no washer when I removed the old ones.
Should there be one? I have a replacement phenolic piston fitted - would this retract slightly less than the standard one as I couldn't fit the pads in with the new washer in place, so wasn't sure if it is spacer or something.
PS...still squealing...grrr >:(
The big plastic washer is an anti squeal shim. Most people just throw them away when they change the pads as they don't do anything positive to stop the squealing.
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Hi Julie,
Thanks for that - never like to have parts "left over" when replacing things, always think I've missed something important...
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Should have plastic shim ;)
I have been trying for the past 28 years on and off to solve this problem and got nowhere.
We have every SOHC in our collection and 3/4 of them squeal just before you come to a stop. The worst one is the missus 400/4 and she also has a 550 that has never made a sound, strange when it is the same brake set up.
Over the years I have tried:
New brake lines (OEM rubber and braded )
New pads ( of all makes)
Skimmed disc's
New OEM disc
OEM piston
Stainless steel pistons
OEM seals
Aftermarket seals
Re bushed the pivot arm
New OEM master cylinders
Aftermarket master cylinders
Every type of copper slip and other brake grease
And on the 400/4 we got it quite after a disc skim but, after 2000 miles it was back again >:(
Maybe if i changed the handle bars it would help ::)
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3/4 of them squeal just before you come to a stop.
Do you mean in the final couple of metres or so?
Mine does a good squeal on the slowdown before stopping!
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Could be the handlebar holder trig----ducks and runs away from Julie
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Could be the handlebar holder trig----ducks and runs away from Julie
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 It probably is my fault Bryan, strange but true but I rarely use my brakes in anger. I just use the front brake, using only one finger on the lever, to come to a full stop. I use the back brake for slowing a bit when riding fast. I glaze the pads before they have even had chance to bed in. These days when the squeek gets really bad, Trig takes the pads out, scuffs them up and puts them back in and shes squeek free for a couple of weeks. I'm the same in the car, I have done almost 100,000 miles in my Freelander and I'm still on the original front pads and only the 2nd set of rear pads since I bought the car new.
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Good job i know you have a sense of humour Julie, should be over end of October you can berate me then!!
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Could be the handlebar holder trig----ducks and runs away from Julie
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 It probably is my fault Bryan, strange but true but I rarely use my brakes in anger. I just use the front brake, using only one finger on the lever, to come to a full stop. I use the back brake for slowing a bit when riding fast. I glaze the pads before they have even had chance to bed in. These days when the squeek gets really bad, Trig takes the pads out, scuffs them up and puts them back in and shes squeek free for a couple of weeks. I'm the same in the car, I have done almost 100,000 miles in my Freelander and I'm still on the original front pads and only the 2nd set of rear pads since I bought the car new.
That's because they spend 90%of there time broken down and when running they don't go fast enough to use the brakes ;) ;D
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OK heres one for you, i had to change the front pads on my Mitsubishi L 200 at 80,000, plenty of material left but half of it fell off one pad. Now done 180,000 supose i should look at whats in there, although i did do discs and pads at 110,000 cos of a warped disc
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I've got, or had (and will get back?) the dreaded squeak as well. After changing the pads then the disc it went away for a while, but returned. Because I had a fair amount of play on the pivot (pin was oval) I changed that, and so far no squeaks. Everything else in the front brake is new or refurbished. I find that cleaning the disc with brake and clutch cleaner on a rag is some temporary help. Back in the day, my first 400/4 never had this problem at all and I did a fair few miles on it. I guess that some material change has made the system more susceptible.
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Not much help to you for 400 four fitment, but I fitted an EBC MD1062LS brake disc onto my CB750F1.
Cured the squeaking, improved the braking and now it also stops better in the wet.
Maybe the original Honda brake disc material is not so good?
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Good job i know you have a sense of humour Julie, should be over end of October you can berate me then!!
Haha, I will Bryan 😁😁😁😁
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Could be the handlebar holder trig----ducks and runs away from Julie
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 It probably is my fault Bryan, strange but true but I rarely use my brakes in anger. I just use the front brake, using only one finger on the lever, to come to a full stop. I use the back brake for slowing a bit when riding fast. I glaze the pads before they have even had chance to bed in. These days when the squeek gets really bad, Trig takes the pads out, scuffs them up and puts them back in and shes squeek free for a couple of weeks. I'm the same in the car, I have done almost 100,000 miles in my Freelander and I'm still on the original front pads and only the 2nd set of rear pads since I bought the car new.
That's because they spend 90%of there time broken down and when running they don't go fast enough to use the brakes ;) ;D
I'll have you know young Paul my Freelander has never, ever broken down. I even managed to limp it to a garage when I filled it up with petrol, which was a bummer as shes a diesel 🤣🤣🤣🤣
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Yes it is a material change---they aint allowed asbestos any more
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I think he means the brake disc material Bryan. Not the pad material.
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Could be the handlebar holder trig----ducks and runs away from Julie
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 It probably is my fault Bryan, strange but true but I rarely use my brakes in anger. I just use the front brake, using only one finger on the lever, to come to a full stop. I use the back brake for slowing a bit when riding fast. I glaze the pads before they have even had chance to bed in. These days when the squeek gets really bad, Trig takes the pads out, scuffs them up and puts them back in and shes squeek free for a couple of weeks. I'm the same in the car, I have done almost 100,000 miles in my Freelander and I'm still on the original front pads and only the 2nd set of rear pads since I bought the car new.
That's because they spend 90%of there time broken down and when running they don't go fast enough to use the brakes ;) ;D
I'll have you know young Paul my Freelander has never, ever broken down. I even managed to limp it to a garage when I filled it up with petrol, which was a bummer as shes a diesel 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Did Trigger ask for the diesel back ;D ;) He is quiet by the way have you left him on the roof and taken the scaffold down :D :D :o
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No Paul.... Graham has now finished putting the roof back on the house (and a grand job he has made of it, he should have been a roofer) and we have just spent the past week putting another coat of paint over the exterior of the house.....Cornish Cream if you're interested 😁😁😁
Scaff can now come down whenever but Grahams quiet because he's knackered, he's alway quiet when he's tired🤣🤣🤣🤣
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When my mate was on recovery i loved it as Mitsi say the L 200 can run 25% petrol so i treated the free contam like petrol. Saved me loads
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Is it possible that the pad material has changed since the 1970s? I can't particularly remember having any brake squeaks that couldn't be cured with smear of Cappaslip. Having said that I've gone all over mine and it still squeals like a pig, so maybe it's a toss up between stopping and being quiet! ???
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I don't have an issue with the brake squeaking, I worry if it stops squealing in normal use! Also, yes, originally pads were asbestos, these days it's not allowed in manufacture (although old stock is okay to use in UK)
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When my mate was on recovery i loved it as Mitsi say the L 200 can run 25% petrol so i treated the free contam like petrol. Saved me loads
It's similar advice within vw emergency support, that it's ok to estimate and run a miss fuelling case at up to 25% petrol in a diesel tank. At that level they go with continuous topping off with diesel to bring it back to favourable mix. Also slosh some two stroke oil in the mix to protect the fuel pump as the diesel has better "lubricity" for the clearance they run.
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Diesel used to have better lubricity but now its low sulfur its not as good