Post by: deltarider on June 04, 2020, 04:33:27 PM
Post by: Trigger on June 04, 2020, 05:24:09 PM
Post by: nairb on June 04, 2020, 07:36:09 PM
Post by: K2-K6 on June 04, 2020, 08:38:02 PM
Which oil do you use and what change intervals?
Post by: deltarider on June 06, 2020, 12:20:59 PM
... Which oil do you use and what change intervals?Bike has been maintained well. Over the years I have used various oils. At the time it was Castrol GTX2 ofcourse. Last ten years it has been Castrol High Mileage and I must say I'm very pleased with it. It keeps everything clean and helps rubber seals live longer. I prefer 15W-40, because I won't operate the bike at lower temperatures than say 15oC. In long vacations I saw no problem doing 5000km before an oil change. Long rides and ideal circumstances. One day in Spain when I changed the oil - I had to renew some oil pump O-rings - the mechanic in who's workshop I did this, was surprised I didn't pour the collected oil back in again. I told him I had been riding 4-5000 km and it was time for an oil change. He kneeled, dipped his finger in it, rubbed it between thumb and finger, smelled it and concluded: "como nuevo" and asked me if he could have it for his Laverda. Below a pic of what the oil screen looked like after some 50.000 kms. Mind you, before cleaning! Also the oil pan was super clean. Never seen any sludge. Decades ago I found a chafe (is that the word?) of aluminium in the oilfilter housing or oil pan (forgot which). Could well have been from the drive chain eating in the crankcase. This was some 30 years ago.
Alas! In the meanwhile there's a new development. Let me look for the link.
Post by: deltarider on June 07, 2020, 08:19:06 AM
Post by: K2-K6 on June 07, 2020, 09:56:10 AM
Here it is: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,182917.msg2117148.html#msg2117148
I've been reading that one too. The reason for positioning is to make only tension on the front "pull" run of the cam chain, leaving any excess placed on the run with the tensioner blade.
It's easier to see on the 750 motor with cam cover removed as all the rockers remain in place so you can observe the rotation sequence ( but it's the same for all these 4 cylinder motors) when you reach tdc one of the cylinders will have both cam lobes lifting the two valves for that cylinder, with the risk that either one will turn the cam from it's own spring pressure. This could bias the cam rotation in either direction (leaving the wrong run in tension) whenever you stop turning the crankshaft. By specifying the 15 degree displacement it makes certain that the cam is trying to rotate backwards from the rocker spring pressure for that cylinder, this holds the front / non adjustable chain run in tension for accurate timing, and places any chain error next to the moving blade, which you then reposition under it's own spring pressure and lock with the bolt etc to prevent any further movement.
If all the adjustment components are in good order, and with the engine running smoothly ( possibly elevate the tickover speed to 1200rpm) then releasing the lock bolt will do the same thing as the motor will be pulling steady and consistent tension on the front chain pull down to the crankshaft. It will achieve the same results, but if idle speed was fluctuating then there's a risk that front chain run will be pulsing with the routine not completed satisfactorily.
Post by: deltarider on June 07, 2020, 04:41:15 PM
Not before Wednesday I will have time to have another look at mine. I have two options:
1. Just start the engine, listen and, if needed, try the dynamical method as described in the CB500/550K3 Owner's Manual.
2. Not start, but first verify if the bolt is still engaged or when it is not, can be persuaded to engage again. I suppose the limited movement (some thirty degrees) would tell me. This would mean I have to rotate the bolt very, very prudently.
I don't know yet what is be best, 1 or 2?
The reason I ran into this and have experimented a bit, is because I had become frustrated to perform the camchain adjustment procedure say every 300km. From all the replies here, I think it is safe to conclude that it is foolish to expect a life span of the camchain of over 45.000km, no matter how much you cared.
Post by: Bryanj on June 07, 2020, 05:28:01 PM
Post by: K2-K6 on June 08, 2020, 12:42:08 PM
Saying that, they did do a good job of designing the chain system within this era of engines. There's limitations to all decisions and lifing is just one of them. Acknowledging the practical life in service and crucially not have the chain break within that period could be viewed as more or less 100% successful, after all these were effectively making 100 bhp per litre capacity from their design originally started in the 1960s . In car terms of the same era that would have been an absolutely full race spec motor, fairly exotic and remarkable for a showroom production engine of any type. They really are a pinnacle of engineering.
One of the limitations of chain drive, particularly over such a wide rpm range are vibrations / harmonic resonance. They will effectively twang like a guitar string if sufficient design and proofing hasn't been applied, which if uncontrolled will dramatically shorten chain life. Generally all cam chains have their "pulling " run guided over an arc to prevent resonances building in that run as left in free air that's what they will do.
Pedantic I know, but any chain drive can't be tensioned. The best that can be accomplished is to make provision to stop any slack from flapping, hence the adjustable guide systems used. True tension would just add to the chain wear.
Where do the harmonics come from? One set is the pulsing of cam lobes against spring pressure from valves which can't be removed but the long rocker faces mitigate this by running up and down cam ramps more smoothly. The frequency of this will obviously change during rpm range.
The other obvious scource is the crankshaft pulsing at twice the rotational speed of the cam but much larger in potential size. This is mitigated via engine design balance but can't be completely removed, but also affected by combustion balance and more specifically the carbs. This is really what carb synchronisation is all about, bringing best parity of each cylinder under load. Smooth tickover is just a byproduct of this and not the primary reason for doing it.
Running the engine at true "under load " combustion parity will result in all the components being subjected to the minimum frequency loading.
The primary drive is also subject to these crankshaft frequency, with it's own consequential lifing and performance.
Edit to add;- it's one of those odd transformations that the cam chain pulsing is most severe at lowered rpm than at the top of rev range if harmonics are well controlled. In other words high rpm won't add to cam chain wear from it's own mechanical limitations, it's just that on a time basis the chain will complete more cycles for an equivalent mileage if you use lower gearing at elevated rpm. The wear is consistent if expressed in total engine revolutions completed as opposed to mileage the vehicle has travelled.
Post by: Bryanj on June 08, 2020, 02:55:30 PM
Post by: K2-K6 on June 09, 2020, 12:20:10 PM
On a side note, one of the reasons for CX500 cam chain wear was due to V angle the camshaft went from no valves open to most valves open in a short part of revolution
Yes Bryan, that lompety-lomp drlivery would appear to set up a "unique" resonance within that motor. They obviously learnt from it as both the F1 V10 3.0litre engine at (similar odd angle) 72 degree V of late eighties was very successful even though all the other manufacturers thought it couldn't work because of vibrations being difficult to resolve.
And then the MotoGP RC211V 5 cylinder 75 degree bike engine similarly dominated bike racing too.
Thanks Ken, yep I could of flown a sortie over here to disturb all the pigeons roosting, there's crap everywhere from them ;D
Post by: deltarider on June 12, 2020, 03:47:59 PM
It seems my only option is:
a) Loosen the lock nut.
b) Prudently keep the tensioner bolt with a screwdriver counter clockwise (carefully avoiding to exercise force inwards ofcourse) whilst fastening the lock nut. I can also do this dynamically with a somewhat raised idle. If I release the screwdriver before fastening the lock nut, chain becomes much too noisy, so I conclude tensioner bolt still does something. How much? I have no clue.
Checked once more in the partslists if there have been any modifications. Nope. At CMSNL however I see the chain is superseded by 14401-362-003.
Looks like I have to live with a raised idle.
Post by: K2-K6 on June 12, 2020, 06:40:30 PM
Post by: deltarider on June 12, 2020, 07:16:37 PM
Post by: Bryanj on June 12, 2020, 08:43:44 PM
Post by: Trigger on June 13, 2020, 06:04:00 AM
Look after your bike and your bike will look after you ::)
Post by: deltarider on June 13, 2020, 11:53:13 AM
In the past Honda has instructed dealers and mechanics a different approach. Unlike Bryan, I don't think it was ment to gain time. The Dutch mec I had the information from, told me he usually asked his collegue to exercise pressure on the kickstarter while he loosened and fastened the locknut. I don't see much time gained in asking a collegue to assist over the procedure where you yourself position the crank to 15o ATDC. Honda choose not to publish the trick in later Owner's manuals but for a reason they only know, from the CB500/550K3 on, recommended to do it dynamically... And with the launch of the CB650 the method had changed again... By then Honda had wisely fitted a cap nut on the tensioner bolt...
Back to the tensioner bolt. I wonder if it would have helped, had Honda used an 8mm bolt. I have never had a tensioner in my hands, but from what I've seen - not much - I have the impression the gear is made of some sort of sardine tin. My question to you, the experts, is: isn't there really something that could have been made better? Honda obviously has reasoned the bolt was not to be turned by a screwdriver anyway until its final moment: the removal. Hm.., from the CB350F/400F we know that the gear does have to be helped occasionally. Sorry for the long post, but maybe there's something useful in it for others. Anyway, I hope to post a sound recording as soon as I have managed to understand my smartphone.
Post by: K2-K6 on June 13, 2020, 01:44:59 PM
What Honda have done is effectively brought to a halt the process by giving the required amount of adjustment it had determined against it's engineering specification.
If the chain pitch increases to excess then the mismatch with dimensions of the sprocket teeth will facilitate a situation in which the chain will attempt to ride on the peak of the sprocket tooth, it's extremely likely the chain would snap in that scenario. Preventing further tensioning at a safe limit is very prudent design in my view.
The primary problem is how fast the chain wears in normal service. Consensus appears to be not more than 40,000 miles (and realistically the same for primary drive) with any improvements or interest in extending it's life focused on this as opposed to adjustment specifically.
You could determine that the two chains effectively are located if not at the edge of the oil's protective ability or perhaps just outside that range for ultimately ensuring that the wear is mitigated by scheduled servicing.
As most of the other engine and gearbox components don't wear at the same rate, they in turn show that the oil effectively has them covered.
This type of difference (if it was determined that it needed attention) during original durability testing, could be affected by different oil spec as it's not going to change much from components.
It moves into the area that general opinion gets spooked by, namely friction modifiers. There's an oil spec closely related to the one used by you (deltarider) that should offer increased protection of these components to effectively increase their life.
I think it's worthwhile to consider that path for longer term usage.
Post by: Bryanj on June 13, 2020, 05:47:12 PM
Post by: deltarider on June 13, 2020, 09:09:04 PM
History. At around 45000 km I had a Honda dealer do a topend, because I was fed up with what I thought was a leaking head gasket. Replacing the tensioner and camchain at the occasion was just a sensible thing to do. At around 80k km, I thought it was time to have another one done. Oil sweating again ofcourse. Replacing the tensioner and camchain was again part of the job ofcourse. Next week I will carry out some extra checks regarding the ignition just to be 100% sure. Bike is a still a joy to ride and easily accelerates into red zone in all gears except 5th.
Post by: Bryanj on June 13, 2020, 09:11:59 PM
Post by: deltarider on June 13, 2020, 09:24:56 PM
Post by: Bryanj on June 14, 2020, 07:19:58 AM
Ken i think the 550 was recast in that area, the one i have seen only had light marks not heavy gouges
Post by: Trigger on June 14, 2020, 09:06:28 AM
I have also come across some that bad that, they have worn the teeth on the crank and bent over the cog teeth on the primary drive :o
The aftermarket chains are crap that Sliver sells as a OEM replacement and the Honda ones are £££
Post by: Trigger on June 14, 2020, 09:28:26 AM
Post by: K2-K6 on June 14, 2020, 01:23:23 PM
These primary chains (Morse, hi-vo, silent etc ) have a huge ability to mask their wear even way past optimum.
The tooth form changes as they bend from straight run to curving round the shaft taking up dimensional slack (hence why they are often referred to as "silent type" ) so masking how worn the pins are.
Also one of the design "characteristics " is that they centrifuge at higher speeds, again masking faults at higher rpm too. It's possibly this part that has the highest ability to machine the cases.
Doesn't mean they are not worn though by conventional judgement, but they can hang on until a pin ultimately gives way and fail instantly, you don't get any real warning.
Post by: Bryanj on June 14, 2020, 03:45:50 PM
Post by: Bryanj on June 14, 2020, 06:52:01 PM
I take it you knew about putting the first pint of oil down a rocker box to fill the cam lobe "sump".
Post by: deltarider on June 14, 2020, 07:15:42 PM
Post by: Seabeowner on June 15, 2020, 09:59:21 AM
I've used genuine Kawasaki primary chains (fitted to the K400/4 and the 550 zephyr I think) on a couple of 500/550s. The zephyr develops more power than the Hondas so should be good. Got them less than half the Honda price.
The aftermarket chains are crap that Sliver sells as a OEM replacement and the Honda ones are £££
And always thought the 500 camchain mechanism was better than the 400/4 with that auto tensioner that didn't work well and the damage to the horseshoe caused by worn chain.
Post by: deltarider on June 15, 2020, 11:19:40 AM
And always thought the 500 camchain mechanism was better than the 400/4 with that auto tensioner that didn't work well and the damage to the horseshoe caused by worn chain.I've always wondered if prolonged inactivity plays a role here. One can't blame Honda for having a blind spot for that typical western phenomenon: the winterstop. BTW, I had another look at the maintenance schedule in the CB650 owner's manual. Quite frankly the "A" (adjust) interval for the camchain every 4000 mi. (6400km) interval leaves me puzzled...
Post by: Pangloss on June 18, 2020, 05:51:48 AM
Benelli 500/654 tensioner. I took this one from my benelli .It's done 29000 miles...looks fine..
Much simpler...doesn't require adjustment.
Post by: hairygit on June 18, 2020, 02:37:21 PM
Surely it would be easier to adapt the carrier rather than the barrels. Looking at it I'd imagine it wouldn't be hard.Let's be sensible here guys, would you REALLY want to risk putting a shoddy Italian copy of an engine part into a beautiful Honda engine???
How are you supposed to take tension off the chain for removal and fitting BTW
No way on earth I would!
Sent from my POT-LX1 using Tapatalk
Post by: deltarider on June 18, 2020, 04:18:47 PM
There is an alternative if you are prepared to make a small change to the bolt hole in the barrel. (Elongate it by about 4mm..This is the kind of post I was hoping for. So do I understand it was auto-adjusting? There must be a way to improve that tensioner. Had a look at the manual. https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1050473/Benelli-500-Quattro.html#product-750 Sei P.26 shows something but not much. Lets await other ideas. Hairygrit, you can't be serious. The north of Italy is known worldwide for its excellent industrial engineers.
Benelli 500/654 tensioner. I took this one from my benelli .It's done 29000 miles...looks fine..
Much simpler...doesn't require adjustment.
Post by: Trigger on June 18, 2020, 06:02:47 PM
Post by: deltarider on June 18, 2020, 09:57:29 PM
My clutch pushrod? Never been a problem. Jumping out of 3rd or any gear? Never happened. Never had to replace a fork seal. You might say: what did I do wrong? ;) On the other hand I'm impressed how many miles the Americans do with their secundary drive chain. Mine had to be replaced every 15.000 km. So I think it is always good to exchange experiences. Today I've read some real good advice on compression test, what you can expect and what not. It's on the German site and I will translate it when we have a rainy day.
If all this sounds like a complaint to you, I humbly apologise. It could well be you've seen it all. I am just an amateur.
Post by: Trigger on June 18, 2020, 11:34:40 PM
Post by: Bryanj on June 19, 2020, 05:58:27 AM
Post by: Trigger on June 19, 2020, 08:03:29 AM
Same as they didnt put a new chain in the cx500 tensioner mod kit so you ended up doing them again at about 30000
I was always surprised how the CX chain stretched so fast being a HI-Vo and short at 78 links ;)
Post by: Bryanj on June 19, 2020, 08:14:12 AM
Post by: K2-K6 on June 19, 2020, 10:07:26 AM
Is "Feelably" actually a word?wasn't that one of the tellitubbies? Or that's what they called him behind his back, although not proven through legal process :)
Post by: K2-K6 on June 19, 2020, 10:33:04 AM
This illustrates that mileage as an absolute basis for judging the chain life has potentially large error. The only consistent accurate way at technical level is to count crankshaft revolutions. Chain life at average of 4,500rpm v the same at 7,500rpm will clearly reach the same wear point at very different mileage totals.
There doesn't appear to be any problems with "tensioner" units in quality or design. It's secondary, as if the chain didn't wear, then the adjustment likewise wouldn't have to move.
Any improvements would come from preventing the chain from wearing at the same rate, that would be either material specifically in the chain bearings or a change in lubricant that would better support the chain bearings.
Post by: robvangulik on June 19, 2020, 11:25:21 AM
Quote
This illustrates that mileage as an absolute basis for judging the chain life has potentially large error. The only consistent accurate way at technical level is to count crankshaft revolutions. Chain life at average of 4,500rpm v the same at 7,500rpm will clearly reach the same wear point at very different mileage totals.That doesn't work either, when riding in the same gear your distance per revolution will be (approx) be the same at high and low revs, just in a shorter time frame ;)
Post by: K2-K6 on June 19, 2020, 11:46:04 AM
The correct technical / grammatical description to describe the chain's life would be engine revs in total accumulation, just that we reference them as "rpm" because our usual indicator, the tachometer says that.
To clarify, chain life should be consistent and measurable to reasonable accuracy in total cycles or accumulated crankshaft revolutions.
Post by: Trigger on June 19, 2020, 11:48:59 AM
Trigger always finds the truth when I am inside the motor ;)
Post by: AshimotoK0 on June 19, 2020, 11:49:18 AM
Talking to a couple of guys on FB who rode these bike when new..one of them was the workshop manager at Freddie Friths in Lincoln, they reckoned you had to ride the first few minutes with the cam chain rattling, which then went away.
Also the Freddie Frith bloke told me he was in the shop one day when Dick Emery came in to to test ride the 1st CB750 they got in, as he was in Panto at Cleethorpes. Dick then went back home south and bought one (BYU 764H) from Tippets of Surbiton. Freddie Frith took a photo of him on it but sadly, the chap can't find it.
Post by: K2-K6 on June 20, 2020, 11:41:20 AM
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,182030.0.html
It seems to make it quieter from initial reports as he's running it with a worn chain, sounds severely worn too! So effective from that point of view and may be to keep the chain from machining the case casting internally.
I'd be more concerned that he feels his problems have gone away though with the chain that worn, and could understand why you changed them if ever the cases were split (seems daft not to) also interesting that the Benelli guy is looking at it too as it's a straightforward copy of the Honda in that regard.
Edit;- it's these words from that thread that alarm me "Following an hour ride and some aggressive testing, the part performed perfectly.
Prior to the install, I had excessive chain slap that resulted in a rough/noisy idle and metal flakes in the oil pan. After the install, the idle is smoother and there is no chain slap in the lower end. Overall, this was well worth the effort."
If ever one needs changing :D
Post by: Trigger on June 20, 2020, 02:59:28 PM
Post by: AshimotoK0 on June 20, 2020, 06:42:06 PM
The aftermarket chains are crap that Sliver sells as a OEM replacement and the Honda ones are £££
That's worth noting everyone ... it's bad that they are being sold as OEM and not as good. I got mine from Yamiya in Honda branded packing so hopefully it is OK.
Post by: K2-K6 on June 22, 2020, 04:26:14 PM
Thanks to you all!... Which oil do you use and what change intervals?Bike has been maintained well. Over the years I have used various oils. At the time it was Castrol GTX2 ofcourse. Last ten years it has been Castrol High Mileage and I must say I'm very pleased with it. It keeps everything clean and helps rubber seals live longer. I prefer 15W-40, because I won't operate the bike at lower temperatures than say 15oC. In long vacations I saw no problem doing 5000km before an oil change. Long rides and ideal circumstances. One day in Spain when I changed the oil - I had to renew some oil pump O-rings - the mechanic in who's workshop I did this, was surprised I didn't pour the collected oil back in again. I told him I had been riding 4-5000 km and it was time for an oil change. He kneeled, dipped his finger in it, rubbed it between thumb and finger, smelled it and concluded: "como nuevo" and asked me if he could have it for his Laverda. Below a pic of what the oil screen looked like after some 50.000 kms. Mind you, before cleaning! Also the oil pan was super clean. Never seen any sludge. Decades ago I found a chafe (is that the word?) of aluminium in the oilfilter housing or oil pan (forgot which). Could well have been from the drive chain eating in the crankcase. This was some 30 years ago.
Alas! In the meanwhile there's a new development. Let me look for the link.
The route taken above intrigues me, to which I'd like to add my views.
Agree that current oils show remarkably clean condition during service life. To me this primarily indicates low oxidation, tolerance of the heat it experiences (resistance to burning into black carbon deposits) but also as I understand it, will be deteriorated specifically in it's film strength which is unseen to visual examination.
I too use the smell test, but if you are doing this you have to have a direct comparator (new oil) to give yourself a baseline. I think if you do this it will be more clear just how much of unburnt combustion byproducts it contains.
I'm not sure that the service change intervals can be arbitrarily changed to double or triple the mileage because of the reasoning layed out in above paragraph.
These engines routinely run richer than the ideal fuel burn required (they're not alone in that aspect as all engines from that era do) but it's this consideration that serms to have made the most difference in oil servicing/lifing of newer and current production vehicles more than anything I've seen.
Basically it would have to run more efficiently fuelling wise to change the oil's service period irrespective of what the oil looks like. I feel there's a way to move these more in that direction safely that could help.
The "high mileage" oil choice is something I'm seeing in a different perspective too. Oil companies are very marginal in how they describe an oil's intent within markets. To me everything about that description says helping to nurse an old and potentially worn engine over it's final mileage, as opposed to an oil that will offer increased protection over longer mileage. There's a subtle difference, I agree, but their terminology for what i feel you've intended to do is "long life " oil. There's a more useful choice within the castrol range that specifically offers better protection of highly loaded components.
It's interesting that most (maybe all) generally available oils will have no connection whatsover with the engines of this type, we are really on our own in decisions like this. Their descriptions don't help.
Also, many of the oils by default have reduced metal to metal contact (exactly what's happening in a chain bearing) protection as they are favouring emissions equipment lifing as part of their bulk marketing strategy. I believe this is mostly a severe reduction, or elimination of zddp content to best preserve catalysts within vehicles they now consider old and "high mileage " this being the opposite of these (honda sohc era) engine's needs. Led by legislation originating in California, the industry is aware of how the current oils compromise valve system and materials traditionally used in engines, but feel the environmental benefits outway any concerns about older engines longevity. Newer engines are being specced metallurgically to work in this way to keep durability with oil formulations available currently.
Edit;- to add https://www.theoillab.co.uk/product-category/oil-testing/engine/ link that illustrates what the oil can be tested for. Expensive warranty claims are sometimes subject to this type of service to establish if the correct oil has been used, plus it's condition at point of failure.
Post by: Bryanj on June 22, 2020, 05:32:26 PM
Post by: Bryanj on June 22, 2020, 08:16:56 PM
Post by: Bryanj on June 22, 2020, 08:18:28 PM
Ebay number 114258617701
Post by: Trigger on June 22, 2020, 09:22:35 PM
Can anybody explain why a new Kawaski primary one which is the same from Fowlers is almost 2/3 cheaper at £44?
That price would of been the last time Fowlers had one in stock and that could of been 20 or 30 years ago ;)
Post by: deltarider on June 22, 2020, 09:37:40 PM
That price would of been the last time Fowlers had one in stock and that could of been 20 or 30 years ago ;)I don't think so. https://www.cmsnl.com/products/chain-drive_920571011/
Post by: robvangulik on June 22, 2020, 09:53:58 PM
Post by: Trigger on June 22, 2020, 11:05:37 PM
That price would of been the last time Fowlers had one in stock and that could of been 20 or 30 years ago ;)I don't think so. https://www.cmsnl.com/products/chain-drive_920571011/
That is NOT £44 :o
All you have to do is order :23131 323 000 at 63 euro. Well, that is what i pay for them ;)
Post by: deltarider on June 23, 2020, 06:37:07 AM
Post by: Trigger on June 23, 2020, 02:35:34 PM
If that's the case then Graham then it's still cheaper to order the Kawasaki chain rather than the Honda one, if the chain is identical (and I've no proof it is at this moment but suspect it probably is) then why as Bryan says is there such a discrepancy in the prices, either Honda or the Honda dealers are ripping people off. Plus if you can get them for 63 euro then imagine what DS is paying for them, yet he wants £90 for a single chain including delivery.
I think you will find that Sliver wants £135 for a Honda chain >> https://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/parts/by-part-number/hpart_23131323000/
Post by: Seabeowner on June 23, 2020, 06:54:14 PM
#That's what I used. 42euros + VAT when I bought them. Used on Kawasakis right up until 1998. Used two and sold two on ebay to recoup the postage.That price would of been the last time Fowlers had one in stock and that could of been 20 or 30 years ago ;)I don't think so. https://www.cmsnl.com/products/chain-drive_920571011/
Post by: AshimotoK0 on June 24, 2020, 08:03:27 AM
I have no idea if my original 3/71 primary chain is original .. although I suspect it is ..... and it's stampled 'MORSE' on each link plate. I always remembered the 500 in magazines described as having a morse chain primary drive but I always assumed that they were the inventors and that Honda would have fitted another manufacturers copy of it.
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
Post by: Bryanj on June 24, 2020, 08:06:15 AM
Post by: K2-K6 on June 24, 2020, 09:18:19 AM
I understand it to be that it's a "Morse" type in design, tooth form multiple links and singular load pin, also that Borg Warner completed the development of this type of drive to facilitate high speed use, which gave us "Hi-Vo" as a protected design/ brand.
Post by: deltarider on June 24, 2020, 10:54:47 AM
Post by: Bryanj on June 24, 2020, 11:13:46 AM
Post by: hairygit on June 24, 2020, 11:19:55 AM
Sent from my POT-LX1 using Tapatalk
Post by: sye on June 24, 2020, 01:12:38 PM
Post by: AshimotoK0 on June 24, 2020, 01:42:41 PM
This place is expensive but lists the Kawasaki part and suitable for Honda CB500
https://www.bikeparts-vintage.de/Primary-Chain-for-Honda-CB-500-550-650-Kawasaki-GPZ-GT-Z-ZR-550-GPX-GPZ-ZL-600
Post by: Nurse Julie on June 24, 2020, 02:35:56 PM
I looked last night at the Yamiya site and 7600 yen was approx £54, then you've got tax and import duties and probably import VAT.Tsubaki Ken.
I can get them down to approx £48 each inc P&P and VAT but you really need to order around 10 to get that figure. By the time you've reposted them to anyone else (cause who needs 10 of them) you'd be back up to the same figure as buying a single one yourself from the same website. That's for a genuine Kawasaki part BTW, not the Honda version.
I saw the name of the manufacturer the other night when I was investigating the Kawasaki alternative and now of course I can't find it anymore, it was a longish Japanese name beginning with a T, something like Tashibaki but not that of course.
Post by: Bryanj on July 05, 2020, 08:31:21 AM
Keep the bag and pics and claim back from card company as non delivered with proof, that soon shakes up the people.
Post by: SPR on July 05, 2020, 09:03:06 AM
I also pay for everything with CC and find they are on the ball with refunding and tackling the supplier and do get them to rectify any problems VERY quickly
Post by: SumpMagnet on July 05, 2020, 12:11:50 PM
Contractually...you take out a contract to supply the goods with the seller.
They take out a contract with the carrier for delivery. That contract normally would include proper signature and proof of delivery, but due to CV19, those things have been amended at the point of despatch.
If the goods fail to arrive, or are damaged, you do not deal with the carrier. Any insurance payout for loss will go to the sender, who technically are still the owner of the goods until safely received. It gets even worse if the sender uses a re-seller like Parcel Monkey...as that adds another layer of contractual obligations and terms and conditions.
Start with the seller, as it's only fair to give them a chance to despatch another item and do the right thing by their customer. Then go to the Credit Card company if they don't respond. When the sender gets a chargeback and no longer has your cash....they will go after the carrier for the compensation. Until that happens, andthey are out of pocket, you are reliant on the retailers goodwill to get it sorted. That's often in short supply these days.
Post by: SumpMagnet on July 05, 2020, 06:46:12 PM
Hermes failed to collect a set of shocks incorrectly supplied to me twice....and the third time...they took the package but left no receipt or any proof the item had been picked up. Were tehy ewver delivered? no idea. The tracking number from my online booking was never scanned.
UK Mail pretended to deliver a battery to me 3 times....all at 7:30pm....which I know was the driver failing work....and scanning them as attempted at the depot to hide the fails.
Right now, the parcel market is swamped with work, with networks at capacity....and issues with getting parcels signed for. It's not a happy place.
Post by: Bryanj on July 05, 2020, 06:55:59 PM
Years back i sent a large heavy parcel to Australia with a 12 week delivery time, at 16 weeks i complained to Royal Mail who tried to tell me it wasnt insured at which point i told them it was only worth £10 but the postage was £80 and reminded them they had not fullfilled their delivery contract and was reimbursed the total postal charge, then delivered after 20 weeks so split the money with the man in Aus
Post by: Laverda Dave on July 06, 2020, 03:27:14 PM
Your best bet is to do as sump magnet suggests and place a review on trustpilot (and other review sites, Google is a good one). The couriers actually read the reviews as a bad review will lose them customers. You won't get a response but you can vent your anger!