Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB350/400 => Topic started by: Rozabikes Tim on January 21, 2019, 10:31:49 AM
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Well, stripped the 400 this weekend after about 7 years of ownership when it has sat dormant in the Garage in the main. This is the rough bike a few of you will have seen at Crich the first year we met up.
Mixed findings.
It came apart very easily, including the main stand pivot! PO's have obviously had it apart before which was where the bad was found. The wiring was seriously bad. Cannot believe it ran and everything worked. Bodge aint the word.
The precious 4/1 headers better than expected but think I will still re chrome.
Motor still to come apart.
This is unlikely to be a fully documented thread but I will do my best with piccies and ask loads of questions of you experts out there.
Tim
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That's great news Tim, well done 👍
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I'll be watching with interest! ;)
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About time ;) ;D ;D ;D
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Good luck Tim. Back on the road for the spring sunshine ☀
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Well I couldn't resist a peep in the motor, so had an hour in the garage.
Problem. PO has for some reason used allen bolts on the cam sprocket (also cap nuts on studs). Can't shift the ones on the sprocket. Should I resort to heat? Any tips on locking motor other than spanner on crank?
The good news is bearings, cam and followers look pretty good at first glance from my amateur eye.
God knows what cam chain tension issues there will be looking at adjuster.....
Having a nightmate loading images. Will try again when better internet....
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Ooooooh, this is just so exciting Tim. Heat them nuts 😀😀😀
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Lock it via the fly wheel and heat the bolts as, most people used retainer ;)
Are you on about domed nuts on the head studs ? should be.
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More images I could not load. Will not accept multiples although file size reduced. One at a time then..[attachimg=1]
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More[attachimg=1]
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More of cam[attachimg=1]
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And questionable adjuster.....[attachimg=1]
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Lock it via the fly wheel and heat the bolts as, most people used retainer ;)
Are you on about domed nuts on the head studs ? should be.
Didn't recall them as domed and stripped a 400 before too. Age!
Enlighten me Trigger on retainer you refer to. As in clutch retainer?
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I think Trigger is referring to Loctite or similar.
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Lock it via the fly wheel and heat the bolts as, most people used retainer ;)
Are you on about domed nuts on the head studs ? should be.
Didn't recall them as domed and stripped a 400 before too. Age!
Enlighten me Trigger on retainer you refer to. As in clutch retainer?
They have always been domed on the inside and non domed on the outside head studs. If they are open on the studs inside, then oil runs down the thread of the stud and leaks. I know this as it is my job ;D ;D ;D
Nut lock, thread lock, stud lock, retainer ;)
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That adjuster bolts looks like most of the 400 i used to see as if the original broke or got lost and you did get the piece out most people just fitted a standard 6mm setscrew instead of paying for and waiting for the expensive Honda parts to do it right, just pray whoever did it relieved the end threads(ground the diameter down) as they tend to mushroom the inner end which destroys the crankcase thread when you undo it. Can be wiser to wait till you have the crankcases separated so you can file the end of the bolt before winding it out.
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Thanks Trig, You do know your job, did we ever doubt it! ;)
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That adjuster bolts looks like most of the 400 i used to see as if the original broke or got lost and you did get the piece out most people just fitted a standard 6mm setscrew instead of paying for and waiting for the expensive Honda parts to do it right, just pray whoever did it relieved the end threads(ground the diameter down) as they tend to mushroom the inner end which destroys the crankcase thread when you undo it. Can be wiser to wait till you have the crankcases separated so you can file the end of the bolt before winding it out.
Cheers Bryan,will do.
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Nuts on cam sprocket suitably heated, head off, barrels off. Have to say all looks good at first glance. Nothing measured but promising :)
Can't find clutch nut tool and too impatient to order one and wait, so will modify an old socket with grinder. :P
Post some pics over the weekend if I get chance.
Really loving doing this. It is such a change for a mere curtain engineer!
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Nuts on cam sprocket suitably heated, head off, barrels off. Have to say all looks good at first glance. Nothing measured but promising :)
Can't find clutch nut tool and too impatient to order one and wait, so will modify an old socket with grinder. :P
Post some pics over the weekend if I get chance.
Really loving doing this. It is such a change for a mere curtain engineer!
I thought you were a haberdashery engineer ;D ;D ;D
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I'm a couple steps behind you! Saw this on eBay (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-Clutch-Holding-Tool-Centre-Nut-Tool-Set-CB400F-400-Four-400-4-HWT051-/251421804669) and wondered whether or not it's really necessary. The vids I've seen on YouTube seem to suggest you don't need a special tool, just a castellated socket.
Thoughts please, experts?! :D
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Castelated socket should work just fine 👍
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The special tool is a castellated socket!
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Yes I have a proper Honda one somewhere and will order one if it does not turn up before rebuild. Just impatient and want to do more on the weekend. Its so exciting!!! ::)
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Well frame all stripped and everything boxed up for later assesment.
Motor all apart besides 5 head studs. I have done the 2 nut / heat trick on all but these last ones are reluctant. They are quite thin shanked and I do not want to apply too much force and break them..... Think I will try stud in vice and turn the whole case - (Laverda120's tip I think?) Will apply heat again but worry I may go overboard with too much! Any guidance appreciated.
Edit Ocadians vice tip - ta Julie :D
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Well frame all stripped and everything boxed up for later assesment.
Motor all apart besides 5 head studs. I have done the 2 nut / heat trick on all but these last ones are reluctant. They are quite thin shanked and I do not want to apply too much force and break them..... Think I will try stud in vice and turn the whole case - (Laverda120's tip I think?) Will apply heat again but worry I may go overboard with too much! Any guidance appreciated.
Why do you want to remove them ?
The two nut way will twist the stud if it is well stuck in ;)
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I used the vice method as advised by Ian (Orcadian) to remove the head stud that I mullered the top of trying to remove the nut. Worked well with plenty of diffused heat. But, I left all the others in as couldn't see any reason why they needed to be removed. Double nutting can actually twist the stud along its shaft as it is so long and thinner in the middle. Trying to remove it on the vice, still attached to the top casing is not the easiest manoeuvre you will ever do, trust me, its difficult.
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Well frame all stripped and everything boxed up for later assesment.
Motor all apart besides 5 head studs. I have done the 2 nut / heat trick on all but these last ones are reluctant. They are quite thin shanked and I do not want to apply too much force and break them..... Think I will try stud in vice and turn the whole case - (Laverda120's tip I think?) Will apply heat again but worry I may go overboard with too much! Any guidance appreciated.
Why do you want to remove them ?
The two nut way will twist the stud if it is well stuck in ;)
Was intending acid dip / paint route and assumed it would be necassary???
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Well frame all stripped and everything boxed up for later assesment.
Motor all apart besides 5 head studs. I have done the 2 nut / heat trick on all but these last ones are reluctant. They are quite thin shanked and I do not want to apply too much force and break them..... Think I will try stud in vice and turn the whole case - (Laverda120's tip I think?) Will apply heat again but worry I may go overboard with too much! Any guidance appreciated.
Why do you want to remove them ?
The two nut way will twist the stud if it is well stuck in ;)
Was intending acid dip / paint route and assumed it would be necassary???
No Tim, the studs can stay in. You are making fast progress on this strip, have you got a heated garage? 😀😁😁
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Small oil rad. Keeps the nuts warm. :P
Things will slow down now I would think. I have an oportunity of freebe chroming but need to get that away in near future.
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Unless the long studs have damaged threads, leave them alone.
If they are stuck, the extra torque needed will likely strip the threads from the top case. Unlike the rocker cover studs, the top crankcase ones stay put for years and will have corrosion around the casing joint face.
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Couple of hours in garage today.Valves removed. Some piccies.
[attachimg=1][attachimg=2][attachimg=3]
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👍👍👍