Honda-SOHC
Other Stuff => Misc / Open => Topic started by: bobv7 on October 15, 2019, 11:27:29 PM
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Back in May I couldn't find any headlamp brackets to replace my quite badly damaged ones and so I took them to a restorer. What I didn't do was to get him to give me an estimate before he started work on them. Six months later and I'm getting them back and he's done an excellent job of fixing them. ;D At a cost of just short of £1,500.00. Now they may be worth that to someone but not me. No one to blame but myself so I'll put them in a glass case as a warning not to do anything like that without weeks of research first! :-\
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This must be a joke right?
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If not, name names.
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Ears for what bike ?
Did the restorer have a sign above the shop that said " I SAW YOU COMING " >>> https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=i+see+you+coming+harry+endfild&view=detail&mid=197AE00F7DD8D81BE96E197AE00F7DD8D81BE96E&FORM=VIRE
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Tell him to keep them and find some more robbing B ;)
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Think he needs some "restorative justice" ;)
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Goodness gracious me...... :o :o :o
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Not a joke, wish it was. The brackets were badly damaged off an imported 1972 CB500 Four and if I could have found some good ones or repro I would have bought them instead. I've never been a rivet counter and every bike I've owned has proved this but in this instance I decided to get the bike back to something like original. My mistake.
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I suppose in some ways, although £1500 is a ridiculous amount of money, if you think of the work involved in restoring them as an individual part, it does stack up, almost. Although they are just a set of ears, when they are mass produced using the correct presses etc , 1000's being made and chromed at the same time, they are obviously a lot cheaper. But, they are multi part items, metal stitched and welded in places, awkward shapes, with the tin work and chroming. If this chaps labour rate was, for example £50 an hour, which is not excessive at all for a specialist, he may have spent 20 hours on them,reverse chroming, taking them apart, making new parts, repairing parts that could be saved, re assembling, tin work, polishing, chroming etc, that can add up to £1000 no problem at all. I'm not saying its worth it but specialist one off work doesn't come cheap but on a part like that, its just not worth it, if you had maybe waited, or asked on the forum, a good set could have come up.
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My mate Dodgy Roger has the best way of dealing with people like that ... send the boys round to strip half of the tiles off is roof when he's out ;D ;D Don't ask me if this is true story or not ;D ;D
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Not a joke, wish it was. The brackets were badly damaged off an imported 1972 CB500 Four and if I could have found some good ones or repro I would have bought them instead. I've never been a rivet counter and every bike I've owned has proved this but in this instance I decided to get the bike back to something like original. My mistake.
Please tell me you didn’t pay him £1500 for the work?
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I've already said that not getting an estimate for the work was my fault so in my book if you get someone to do a job then you pay them. That's it. Julie has correctly explained the economics of mass production and how they differ from working on an hourly rate. I very much doubt many of us could afford any hand built product and it's good there are still folks around who do have those skills. It's easy to underestimate the cost of everyday items until you look closely at what actually goes into them. Try building your own flat screen tv! :o
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Any reputable person would have given you an estimate or at the very least said to you in the first place when you took them in do you have any idea what that is going to cost >:(
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Unfortunately one of life's hard lessons. Nobody was hurt only your pocket.
But you should name them.
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The so-called expert should have told you the job is not economic to do before setting out on a no holds barred repair. That's absolutely outrageous. Personally I would let him keep them and teach him a lesson. He will probably get £100 on eBay, and you never know it could be you buying them. A reputable trader would have contacted you as soon as it was apparent it was going to take a fortune to do.
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No way should you have paid this bill... regardless of failing to get an estimate. You should have told him that there is no way he can justify that amount and to keep the items.... The guy is clearly a con man.
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Personally, I think it's a great shame that Bob has had this experience, regardless of the reasons behind it.
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Personally, I think it's a great shame that Bob has had this experience, regardless of the reasons behind it.
Agreed, very stressful.
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I think you should negotiate with him before paying up. As others have said, he should have at least warned you from the outset it was going to be an expensive repair. Faili g that he should have contacted you during the work to advise the cost was mounting up and did you still wish to continue. If he just left it until the final bill that in my book is sharp practice. Unless of course you told him to fix them and included the words 'time and money no object' in which case you have no option but to pay.
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Have you ever been driving down a road and it suddenly dawns on you that you must going the wrong way, but if you keep going because it might be the right one just around the corner? Well, that was my brain fade state with these two cheap bits of pressed steel because I was paying at each stage of the process. Still can't believe I got sucked into it, just like a alcoholic or gambler waiting for their next fix for whom I now have the greatest sympathy! :'( At no time did I expect the cost to rise so high and the guy doing the work didn't bring up the probable final cost, but now none of you will be likely to fall into this trap, will you! :o At least the 6 rubbers supporting the underside of the seat only cost me £45.00 from our friends in Holland. Time for my tablets, I think. ::)
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Have you ever been driving down a road and it suddenly dawns on you that you must going the wrong way, but if you keep going because it might be the right one just around the corner? Well, that was my brain fade state with these two cheap bits of pressed steel because I was paying at each stage of the process. Still can't believe I got sucked into it, just like a alcoholic or gambler waiting for their next fix for whom I now have the greatest sympathy! :'( At no time did I expect the cost to rise so high and the guy doing the work didn't bring up the probable final cost, but now none of you will be likely to fall into this trap, will you! :o At least the 6 rubbers supporting the underside of the seat only cost me £45.00 from our friends in Holland. Time for my tablets, I think. ::)
Bob I've got to say this really sickens me - you're clearly an honourable chap, but it really feels like you've been taken advantage of here.
Where are you at with the rest of the project? What parts do you need to finish the build?
James
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Its amazing how costs can add up I have been on both sides.Not bike related. Paid tons for what I thought was a small job and also charged what looks like tons for a so called small job.
I always give a rough idea when asked to do anything and even then I can be way off and it can be quite embarrassing when totting up the final figure
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Hi James
Kind of you to say that; many others will think I'm just a mug!
As a couple of them are in a poor state I had been going to go for a new set of pipes when DS get them back in stock but not sure if I'll bother for now. Fork tubes have been re chromed with new seals and the headlamp/bucket has been replaced, as have the crumbling warning bulbs holders. The side panels have been previously patched up but aren't too bad, but probably could do with being replaced if and when I get around to repainting the tank. I'm in two minds about the tank as it has quite a nice patina that's not unattractive. Hmmmm... The seat base was good so I had it rebuilt and covered, not stock but with a bit more comfort and lower to suit my creaky knees. Now maybe I'll wait until I'm in a better frame of mind before deciding to do any more, and it's not costing me money for the bike to sit in the garage! ::)
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It's a real shame to read this thread, but the shame is not Bob's - I just think 'specialists' who take advantage of people in this way should be named and shamed.
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I think it admirable that you have told the story, but which restorer was it, so no one else on the forum suffers the same fate.
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Finger pointing is not my style and I said it was my fault for not getting the cost in writing and that would be my advice to anyone looking to get this sort of work done. Being new to the West Sussex area I don't have the same familiarity with the reputations of the local trades and dealers I did have, however as with any specialist dealers you need to be careful of classic car restorers as their ideas of costs and values may not be quite in the same world as the rest of us! ;)
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Please tell me you didn’t pay him £1500 for the work?
:-\ if that had been in wales he would have been burned at the stake
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The more I think about this post, the more it saddens me. Firstly because a fellow forum member has had a bad experience. Secondly, because some of us in this industry go above and beyond to be honest and open with customers right from the very start and if that means telling a customer their engine is being economic repair, so be it. I couldn't sleep at night if I didn't communicate any little issues or problems with the person paying the bill. Luckily, it is very rare that a job changes due to an unforeseen issue but that is why all customers are told we can't put a price on an engine overhaul / rebuild / restore until its fully stripped and a full assessment takes place. I thought this was the way all businesses worked these days but....I'm obviously wrong.
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You are obviously an honourable chap Bob and don't deserve such treatment.
Athough the curtains we sell are in no way related to the bike industry, the principles you operate to should be the same in any business. Lots of people say to us - "I don't care about the price, I want it, just do it". We still always insist on giving a firm cost. I personally often feel uncomfortable when giving people a cost as they may understandably have no Idea of potenial price and I would not want to shock them. Just shows why you should do it. Simply would not feel morally comfortable sticking an end cost on a job without prior agreement to an accurate estimate.
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A very sad story indeed, i really do feel for bobv, but this dealer/restorer whatever he is, has obviously pulled a bit of a nasty one here and I don’t think many would disagree with that. He most certainly deserves to be identified and challenged over this incident rather than being allowed to get away scott-free without the entire classic motorcycle community being made aware of his actions. Bobv may well not get his hard-earned money back but he can certainly limit this guys chances of repeating this scam on some other unsuspecting victim.. Name and shame, its definitely the right thing to do.... maybe bobv should try a bit of sharp practice and give this guy a taste of his own medicine.... either refund a reasonable amount money or face being exposed to the entire community, forums and facebook.... I do hate to see people being ripped off and arseholes getting away with this type of nasty behaviour....
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You are obviously an honourable chap Bob and don't deserve such treatment.
Athough the curtains we sell are in no way related to the bike industry, the principles you operate to should be the same in any business. Lots of people say to us - "I don't care about the price, I want it, just do it". We still always insist on giving a firm cost. I personally often feel uncomfortable when giving people a cost as they may understandably have no Idea of potenial price and I would not want to shock them. Just shows why you should do it. Simply would not feel morally comfortable sticking an end cost on a job without prior agreement to an accurate estimate.
I don't know how you get any work dealing with curtains I have the same issue when pricing wallpapers. A roll on its own sounds cheap but when I say you need so many rolls most people run a mile.
I had one recently that was £58+VAT per meter not roll after I worked out the price even I fell over.
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There is no rip off here. The restorer was asked to do a job, which he did. He was not asked to give a price on the job.
Look at the process of doing these complicated part and most fabricators I know charge £60 to £70 per hour.
First he would of had them reversed chromed. Then chemically de rusted, before cutting and rotten metal out. He would of then had to bend new parts of metal and stitch them in, braze the seams and grind down flat and blend to the original metal. Then once correct, polish it up to a high grade finish before sending it is be copper plated and chromed. Not a 5 minute job and a lot of outside work done by third parties.
I don't know why you did not ask of the forum, if anyone has any. I must have a couple of sets kicking about.
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It wasn’t you was it....? Lol 😆
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The price is shocking to most of us, but Trigger is right about the amount of work involved. If this specialist is used to dealing with million pound cars or rare bikes like Brough Superiors then he probably has customers paying those sort of bills for rare, impossible to replace parts all the time. Not me though! 😕
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Funnily enough I agree with Trigger's comments for exactly the reasons he gives. Not looking for sympathy just a warning to be a bit more careful than me before getting involved in expensive restoration work. However, I wish I had known about the apparently vast number of headlamp brackets going spare 'cos I spent a lot of time looking for the bloody things and I couldn't find any! :(
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You can buy a new set of exhausts for a CB750 for the same money!!! and most enthusiast would still baulk at that......come on get real.... I really do feel for you although you seem to be taking it well to the point of actually defending the chap, but I presume you didn’t start this thread because you were over the moon with your purchase.... its bad enough having to shell out large sums especially on the run up to Xmas, but just about bearable if you are getting value..... I did it a few years ago when my BMW turbo blew up..... but £1500 for a pair of refurbed headlamp lugs is not value for money. Anyway, the forum exists to share advice and information, promote good suppliers and expose bad ones... so why not share the details of this reasonable supplier, I’m guessing he made a decent job of them?.
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If anyone needed to find a classic restorer from around this area they could always drop me an email.
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I don't care who he deals with or what time it takes, after looking at them his first words should have been do you know what I charge and what they are going to cost. >:(
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They were from a 1972 CB500 Four. The repair work is excellent, not so sure about the finish but that's that. I decided not to name the company for all the very good reasons you give. It's only my side of the story and without the other side giving their version it can quickly turn nasty and spiral out of control. I only posted it as a reminder that life can be like a greasy cucumber; you think you have a firm grasp and next second your eyes are watering! ::)
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You must point your cucumbers in a strange direction. :o
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Good advice oddjob... i think “name and shame’ is probably not the right approach.... but I think “name” is ok... everyone could then make their own mind up....... There is lots of naming of service providers on here.... that’s what makes it useful