Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => Project Board => Topic started by: captaink on August 02, 2015, 01:47:10 PM
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Posts moved from newbie.
Gearbox now opened up and inspected all looks good
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Posted same picture twice above, funny
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Hi Pete,
Frame not back from platers yet and no prices as yet, all the other nickel and chrome parts are with them as well, I'll let you know £ though.
Almost every nut and bolt is stripped now,
Found someone who has or can supply fork o rings and seal etc, stantions will go off for re Chroming and overhaul even though there not worn where it matters and the ally legs will get polished
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I knocked up a basic engine stand, essential once it starts going back together.
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Whilst you have it apart check carefully the sides of the selector forks and the tops of the "Lumps" in the selector pin tracks(hope you understand what i mean) any wear shows in those places first
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I'll give them a check over then
The head is going off for new guides and valves complete tomorrow
And the cases are already into the vapour blasters workshop after which I'm sending them up to have new APE studs fitted and a visual check over.
There going to sort out new pistons and rings.
I was advised that the gearbox bearings don't usually wear except one but might change all anyway as I get them trade cost.
I'm away for a couple of weeks, when I come back hopefully some parts will be ready
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Some bearings are grooved. Which ones do you use is it the C3 high speed type?
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No idea yet but as each bearing has a number it won't be a problem
I only use top bearings no cheapies
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The gearbox bearings WILL be a problem as the grooves are not a standard size so "Normal" bearings to number won't fit
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Yamiya are a good source for those bearings with grooves (e.g. CB750K0 output shaft bearing) or location holes round the outer shell. What would you use for those that look 'standard' Bryan, would it be C3 rating? and which manufacturer?
Ash
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I'll ask our bearing rep when he comes in next.
Most things can be overcome if you throw enough £ at them
Points taken though I'll re use if I have too
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I can't remember the speed ratings for bearings, do you know offhand Ash
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While I'm waiting for parts on the rickman to come back I returned to another project I'm on.
I already have a CR 750 replica in Honda colours but I want a CR 750 in Dick Mann colours but a usable bike, like with electric start. The other one is a balls out racer and not very usable even though it's road registered.
It's early days but I have a 1977 frame with V5 in good condition, shot blasted in primer and ready for chopping about.
I have started to remove Some brackets
Early days
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mmmm, interesting, will there be a separate project thread for this one keith
pete
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I think that would be best Pete otherwise it will do my head in jumping from one to another.
Also the wife won't see it.
So let's call it the "CR 750 for road use build"
It might be a bit slower than the Rickman as there's a bit more work involved me thinks.
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Anyway news on the Rickman:
The frame and nickel plate may be completed this week, won't hold my breath.
The oil tank and a few bits are at the powder coaters.
The cases are at the vapour cleaners.
The heads gone up to have new valve seats and valves etc.
I'm going on holiday for a week so and when I'm back the parts should all be done.
Regards Keith
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I can't remember the speed ratings for bearings, do you know offhand Ash
These people talk about C3 and C4 rating.
http://www.bikebearings.co.uk/
markB on the sandcastonly site did this excellent table on the early CB750 engine bearings, and many remained the same throughout the models. I played safe, bought an 11k mile gearbox from the States and Genuine Honda output shaft bearings from Yamiya. If you have Excel installed click on the link for MarkB's table
[attachimg=3]
[attachurl=2]
[attachimg=1]
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Last of the engine ally parts came back today.
The head has gone off already and it its fairly likely that the top engine case will go off in a few weeks for new studs to be fitted.
As for replacing the Pistons and rings etc for new standard size it may be more beneficial to have the cylinders bored out to 836cc and use a big bore wiseco piston kit.the parts will be easier to obtain and less hassle.
Am I correct in assuming that the big bore kit will not need new rods or uprating anything else and will not require new cylinder sleeves just a rebore ?
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I have info back from the engine guys who are doing the machining that the exhaust valve guides are shot as I could see myself and that these can be obtained from the USA and that they are the bigger F2 valves 31 & 34mm. They said there in good condition and re usable but I would replace them if there freely available.
Also had some powder coating back ,few brackets and the oil tank which looks really nice
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Looks like a lovely finish on the engine cases / block in the background. Vapour blasted and painted?
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Got my F2 valves and guides from CycleX in the states. They are Kibblewhite items and good quality. Price was good but got stung to death on the import duty, but your wasting your time trying to get them here. They come up sometimes on eBay but its just the odd ones. I believe you can get Ape items from the states as well but I didn't look too far into that. Nice build by the way. Cheers. Roy.
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Yes I was told by the engine guys that they have tried UK and Europe but no luck at present.
States seems the best option, I'll let the engine guys get the parts at least I'm assured they will fit.
Engine cases are vapour blasted only in the pictures still deciding what to / how to paint cases
Some parts may go this week for polishing
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Any suggestions on painted cases or just leave as is ?
Brit bikes are left without paint
Opinions appreciated
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Trigger's your man for that one....I believe the consensus is paint because a) it replicates the factory finish and b) helps prevent corrosion of the bare alloy cases.
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Who did your vapour blasting and what state was the alloy in when you gave them the parts. Can you share any typical prices with us?
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The cases were oily black and tatty. See earlier posts of August 2nd. Soda blasted first followed by vapour blast. You still should wash the cases to remove all bits but there good enough for a mock up.
Prices.. well often I have a few other bits done but the cases,and five engine covers etc were
£140 inclusive.
A previous batch, head,cylinders rocker covers etc were £100
Try doing that yourself with stripper and parts cleaner.. Is a no brainer.
All done by TSR in Sevenoaks area... His name is Dave ,, pm for phone no.
I might, only might remove some of burrs on the top casting which is purely cosmetic then let them re vapour clean it, this will even the finish again, the cost will be only a few pounds
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Question........
What are these two holes for in the cb750 F2 bottom case ?
They appear to be dead holes
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Anyway, the lower case has been vapour blasted but I want to be sure there's nothing left in any of the holes so a quick wash with the garden hose and a paint brush, a blast of compressed air followed by an hour sitting on top of the tumble drier to dry it all off.
Its now ready to put the gears back in and a new bearing in the lower case.
I'll wash the gears with white spirit and inspect them a bit better, any bearings that[attachimg=1] can be replaced will be.
Lower case pictured all nice and clean
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Nickel frame and all other parts will back next week from the platers.
Gears cleaned and pre fitted, new bearings ordered
Seat has gone off to the upholsterers
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Bit of an update on the Rickman build
The frame is back from platers, there are areas that the polishing could not get to but there still plated just not super smooth.
All the bits seen and some that are not are polished nicely though.
All the brackets look really nice in nickel and chrome.
At moment I'm doing one of many pre fits just to make sure it all fits and I have not lost anything.
Engine spacers, I have made in stainless.
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Another picture
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Another
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More to follow when I can post them
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Excellent rebuild
New nickel plating is a very good finish
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Thanks Nigel.
You may have seen a mate of mine over the years in heathfield ,driving a yellow GT 40
Robin batt lives in heathfield , now has racing e type
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2 more pictures of the nickel plated frame
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Can't say I know Robin, but I would like to have a go in his E type!!!
Where did you find the frame rubbers to support the petrol tank, I could use these on my Honda.
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The rubbers were from mead speed about £ 2.50 each
You wouldn't have missed robins cars it was bright yellow
Regards keith
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I do remember seeing a yellow GT40 a couple of times, but I never met the man,
Thanks for the contact on the tank rubbers
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Everything on the pre fitting seems to go back on correctly as it should
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Another few pictures
Everyone likes a picture !
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Amazing attention to detail, frame looks great
pete
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Thanks Pete,
Frame was a bit of a pain due to its size but it got there in the end.
Fork stantions have been re chromed and should be back in a day or two, I was unable to get the seals for the betor forks so in the end I had them done by someone else.
Usually I build forks myself.
Once there back the whole front can go back on.
The engine will be the slow bit as I'm in the hands of others.
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Keith, can you message me the details of where you got the frame done and the price please
pete
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Message sent pete
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The fibreglass panels are going off in about a month to the body shop
I have repaired a few small imperfections in the fairing and re shaped the rear section / seat.
There be painted in orange with black wording and stripes and the painter I have used for years will ensure all stripes etc are prepared and lacquered so that you won't feel the lines or edges.
The painter being an ex racer, having raced against agostini in his day knows what I want from them and he unfortunately charges me accordingly , but you only get what you pay for I'm afraid.
Picture as I came off the bike
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Forks came back today from having the stations rechromed and the legs polished.
There now rebuilt with new seals etc and tested
Must say they did a good job, hence the six weeks wait
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Another
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Clip ons re chromed, new speedo, tacho and cables.
The old gauges had dented cases so they had to go.
All bolts are stainless and have yet to be polished
The headlight shell is a genuine Honda part from David silver, I melted the original on.
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Fairing and tank pre fit
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Polished fork legs
The disk centres are still to painted but they'll get done later , new fixing bolts for the discs are needed but there a funny size something like m10 x 1.25 me thinks ?
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Fork tops polished up quite well
You can see the difference in colour from the polished ally, chrome and nickel
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Another angle
The trusty Colorado norton works based commando in the background
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Sorry, I can only send pictures one at a time from this I pad for some reason
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Seriously impressive build
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+1 when can you start mine. ;)
Mick
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Amazing, that is going to be stunning
pete
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Cheers.
When the panels get painted orange it should really get bling.
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Ooooh....can't wait to see the finished bike. Glorious.
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Progress is a little slow at present but some engine parts have come back from D & M engineering.
The cylinders have been rebored to 836cc ( big bore kit ) and the head has had new valve guides,new springs and the new valves have been ground in.
They also repaired a cracked fin.
The engine casings have gone of and had new ape studs fitted.
Next job will be to have main and rod shells replaced after the crank has been inspected, I'm leaving that to D & M to decide on what's best. No cutting corners so it's got to done 100 percent.
I'm doing some work on my 61 Harley at present so while the engines under way there's no time wasted.
Will post pictures when I can
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oh, to have money!! i used to call with a mate who had a number of bikes and a Lola T70. i wasnt in the least bit jealous... keep the pictures coming though.
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Update on the Rickman build.
The engine parts are almost complete. " Just got to build it now "
The cylinders are rebored to suit the big bore kit to 836cc
Heads are completely rebuilt with new F2 valves, guides, springs etc
New rod bearingsfitted, new Crankshaft bearings ready to go. New tensioner, cam chain in fact most parts.
Casings have new APE studs fitted and the cam was sent for inspection and found to be in nice condition so just polished.
All the internal parts like primary chains, clutch plates, seals etc are David Silver supplied
Covers polished all shiny !
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Almost ready to start the engine build.
virtually All the parts I have now and the machining work has been done.
I have sent the carbs off for total strip, polish and overhaul.
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Head is also complete and ready
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Can I ask were your having your carbs done
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Carbs have gone off to the engine machinists I have used
D & M engineering , ask for Dave look them up on net there Honda race engine and bike builders.
Very helpful and do a good job.
Regards keith
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Keith, I have a Honda Rickman CR750 I bought about 20 years ago.
When I bought it I was told by the seller it was an original S&S tuned bike. It certainly had the S&S exhaust that was very, very, very loud! Reading the MCN road test of the S&S Rickman from the 70's the registration of my bike is the one directly following the S&S test bike, so maybe it did have all the goodies fitted? I couldn't check the rest of the engine for any other signs of tuning apart from having a finned alternator cover and the exhaust but as it cost less than 1.5k I wasn't too bothered, it was a genuine CR Rickman :)
Sadly it has been in bits for at least 10 years following the engine throwing oil from the breather over the rear tyre and bringing a new term to the meaning of 'riding on slicks'. Its going to be my next restoration after the 400/4 is completed.
I do know from stripping the engine though there are no S&S bits in there, certainly not a big bore kit and wild cams so I guess at some point the original engine went bang and was replaced with another standard engine with the original S&S exhaust fitted.
Where did you get your frame re-nickled and can you divulge how much it cost as this is going to be a major expense in the restoration of mine. I have been quoted upwards of 500 pounds for a strip, polish and re-nickel. Most platers I have asked wont even touch it saying either their tank is too small or giving me horror stories of the nickel salts becoming trapped in the frame tubes and rotting the metal from inside out. The other excuse is the bronze brazing of the frame becomes damaged during the stripping process with the brazing going soft and the frame deforms! Now you have your frame back have you noticed anything untoward? My own view is if Rickman nickle plated the frames at least 40 years ago and they haven't fallen apart and massive holes haven't appeared in the frame tubes due to nickle salt corrosion they must be ok to strip and re-nickle?
Lovely bike by the way and I look forward to seeing the finished product 8)
Dave
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Hi Dave, sorry for the long delay in replying.
The frame was re nickle by Capital Chroming co in the Old Kent Rd. London S.E. But they didn't want to do it, as you say there tanks are not big enough. They sent the frame away to someone else to strip and they did not tell me who.
It was returned to them,they then polished it as best they could but some of the areas are really not very accessible. They then nickel plated it.
The finish is very good overall but not sure if they would do one again, you need to ask.
I had quite a few bits nickel plated such as the swing arm etc. and quite a lot chrome plated as well as all the ally engine parts polished so not sure how much the frame on its own was. The whole lot was around £ 1400 and took about 4 weeks.
Some updated pictures of the engine build although its a little further along from this now.
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The frame overall was very good Dave, as you can see there's other nickel plated parts, these will always turn out nice as there easy to polish.
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They have done a lovely job. That was a company I called a few years ago and they didn't want to do it, you are lucky they did yours! I have a local guy very near to me but he mainly specializes in zinc but he loves bikes and does my stuff for me. Bad news though he doesn't know how much longer he can keep going due to the environmental issues and he doesn't have a tank big enough otherwise he would plate my frame. There was a place I came across at the last Stafford show and they quoted £750ish but they need to see the frame first. I'm not in a hurry as the 400/4 is currently undergoing it's restoration but the Ricky will be next!
The engine rebuild looks amazing, progress is good, ready for summer maybe?
Keep the photos coming, great to see it all coming together.
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engine is coming together although after fitting the rockers realised I had missed of two o rings under the rocker housings. Haynes manual doesn't show then.I had fitted the oil restrictors and o rings but it was the other end that does nothing except blank off the oil gallery. 1 hour later it was rectified.
Got to set up the tappets and refit the clutch although I'm waiting for the new clutch plates to come in. There's no rush.
New 836cc pistons fitted with the ring gaps all nice and equal. New APE studs.
Lots of shiny bits going on soon
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more engine pictures, everyone likes a picture !
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Question.......................
The Rickman frame is different to the CB750 frame.
I wondered if the engine could be lifted into the frame or like the CB you need to lower the frame over the engine ?
taking it out I lifted the frame of the engine but not sure if putting it back the other way is possible ?
Answers ????
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As for the Rickman , I have decided not to use the original Rickman steel tank with fibreglass cover and opt for a new ally Rickman tank, I prefer the look. I'm having this made by Holtworks with a 30 week delivery time, hopefully sooner.
Updated Pictures when I have them
Keith
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Still no news on the Rickman ally tank being made, officially its still 15 weeks away :(
Good news the exhaust arrived yesterday so I could not resist sticking the dummy engine in and trial assembly of the exhaust to get an idea of how it looks.
1st impressions are good, this is a 1978/9 Rickman frame and the exhaust is a 1975 style.
I was informed it would fit and luckily it does even down to the rear support bolt being in alignment.
It needs aligning 100 % but looks more than suitable.
As I'm having the bike painted orange and the tank is backorder, I have still sent the fairing and other parts for painting, as the orange is a flat colour it will easily match up with the tank when it arrives. :D
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few more ;D
Also by putting the dummy engine in I could make sure the spacers for the engine to frame that the Rickman frame uses are perfect fits.
I made and replaced the steel spacers for polished stainless steel ones.
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Although I'm still waiting for the ally fuel tank to be made which should be about another 8 weeks I had the remaining parts painted and Pre fit the fairing to make sure the stripes and wording are aligned and look straight.
It will go back to the paint shop tomorrow and finished then lacquered.
All this will need to be stripped to the bare to fit the rebuilt engine, which unlike the original frames should lift in with clearance.
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A few more
The black edging trim will finish off the job later
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Although I had a bigger problem with the head gasket for the later F2 engine in relation to the oil seals barrel to head and the larger 836cc big bore kit. I have received two gaskets from Australia ( jap bike spares ) made by Forsetti and they fit perfectly as opposed to punching the holes out larger.
Picture is for information
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Seriously great looking bike coming along nicely, keep the pics coming. Ready before the summer ends hopefully?
I have workshop envy, how do you keep yours so clean and immaculate :o!
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Was looking at the room today and the floor was in need of a real good clean, bit scruffy at moment. I'm anal really.
Probably not ready this summer as other projects on the move as well.
Carbs came back last week they look ok !
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Carbs came back last week they look ok !
That's an understatement if ever I saw one. :)
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Wow, cool carbs 8)
If my workshop floor was as clean as your dirty workshop floor I would be eating my dinner off it!
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Some parts are back from the paint shop.
I'm still waiting on the ally fuel tank to be made should be mid October.
All the lettering and stripes are airbrushed on NOT tranfers.
The original F2 Engine is now back in the frame.
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a few more pictures
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It's a really good looking bike, aided of course by your work in rebuilding.
I think they suit the four pipes so well along with such a striking colour. Be great to ride that around when finished.
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Great progress- she's looking stunning. Don't forget to get the side cover 'wings' pointing in the right direction...
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Noticed a bloke in Perth is selling a Rickman for AUD17K!
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Well spotted about the emblem wings, probably pissed when I fitted them ;D
uummm ! did I put those pistons in upside down ? got me's a thinking
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slight update and a few pictures
The tank finally arrived after 34 week from order, it was worth the wait quality is superb. I had the Monza cap and two 1/4" brass fuel taps. Although one tap is too close to the carbs and will require a slight adjustment.
I have just received the tank strap which will need brackets at either end to fix too, these I'll make in stainless steel, then the tank can go off to the painters.
The exhausts are now complete after a small amount of tweaking as these were not made for this model.
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I had an issue with the engine being offset more to the offside of the bike. All spacers were exactly as they came of the bike when I stripped it except I made them in stainless but they were the same.
Nevertheless getting the engine aligned by modifying the spacers ensures the sprockets are aligned correctly and the chain runs straight.
The Rickmans method of wheel adjustment is not as straight forward as most bikes but once you get your head round it it's fine.
Adjustment is done by offset washers on the frame to swingarm.
The chain runs true now
The fairing is just how I want it, no transfers as everything is airbrushed on and lacquered. Rubber trimmed around the edges.
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WOW! 8)
I can only gape in awe.
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+1 on the WOW !. I know diddly squat about those bikes but it looks stunning.
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I acquired 2 Oil hoses from Silvers but they did not fit opps £ . I ended up making hoses using race spec oil and fuel hose and re used the ends that came from the Silvers hoses, so not all was lost.
These I had crimped on after modifying the crimps and ends slightly.
The tank welding is second to none , the tank came from Holt works, Tony and Michelle Holt.
As I am now using a 4 into 4 exhaust instead of the 4 into 1 it came with, the gear and brake pedals are in the way so it is currently being modified.
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Once I have made the tank strap fit ill post a picture, the strap is stainless steel polished with a rubber underlay, the ends are stainless.
I had one before for a Triton I used to have , they are seriously nice quality.. but at a price
Tank indentation is 32mm the strap is the same
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Fantastic build, great quality and the tank looks amazing. I'll need a new tank when I get round to restoring my CR.
Keep the photos and updates coming.
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The Tank is painted and trial fitted with the stainless strap, works a treat.
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more pics, everyone like a picture
The wording is airbrushed on and lacquered over, not tansfers
Underside of the tank is just as nice. I'm more than happy with the finished result.
Now the tank is in its correct position I have to make a small mod to the fork stops as the fork top just slightly touches tank the tank.
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Tank Strap is Norton Manx from Norton race parts,
Could remove your nuts in an accident, but I don't use them as much now. ;D
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Looks really good, sardonic view of your gentleman's vegetables :) you could always lease them out to one of our current politicians, some of them appear in desperate need of some.
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Terrific looking machine, what engine mods do you have?
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The bike looks amazing. I would be really worried about my crown jewels though. :(
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F2 Engine is 836cc Wiseco big bore kit.
F2 engine has bigger valves.
Pain in the butt getting the correct head gasket though, overwise an nice enjoyable engine build.
I honestly don't ride the bikes much, I'm more into the build.
The same applies to cars, I enjoy the building.
The finishing off always takes a long time.
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a couple of pictures with the fairing
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last couple
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Looks so good Keith well done
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That is epic. Such a great build....
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Amazing restoration!! Really good job ;)
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