Honda-SOHC
Other Stuff => Misc / Open => Topic started by: AshimotoK0 on August 04, 2020, 08:03:07 AM
-
I have seen loads of negative comments about Haynes manuals on internet forums.
However, when I was at school and when a student, I rebuilt several CB250's, a 400/4, CD175A, CB72 and CB160 all using Haynes manuals and nothing else, as I coudn't afford the Genuine Honda 'shop' manuals.
OK .. I admit there are some serious errors in there but having then got hold of the Honda manuals, they too had many serious errors and one gripe I have about the Honda ones is that they were never fully corrected, only supplemented with later model variants. OK some updates were available in Service Bulletins. Thanks to the likes of BryanJ etc these bulletins are still around in .pdf format but won't be found in the Shop Manuals AFAIK.
I did disect my CB750 Haynes manual and scan it and I have Haynes Manuls for most of my bikes that I would be prepared to mutilate in order to auto-feed scan them and put them in 'Alladins Cave'.. but I have to ask if anyone is interested in them first ... Is it only me on here who uses them?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zxg25whp5gyr97a/CB750_HNS_Shop_Man.pdf?dl=0
-
I use the Haynes manuals together with Clymer, and find that reading between the two most information is available.
-
In general the Haynes manuals are no worse than the clymer or factory manuals where mistakes are concerned, the thing i find that needs double checking the most is torque values.
-
Haynes manuals are quite good, I prefer them to factory manuals, I have both
Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
-
I've never had any problem with a Haynes mañuel.
-
I’ve stabbed one that was being vague about whether a wheel bearing retainer, that was refusing to budge, was left or right hand thread, lost it when I got to the notorious ‘assembly procedure is the reverse of disassembly’, especially when it wasn’t me who took it apart, and fallen for the trap where, if you put a 5 speed Triumph gearbox together exactly as shown in a photo, you end up with about 1.5 gears.
That said, they filled a gap in the market, particularly when genuine workshop manuals were treated as trade secrets, and like parts manuals, only available to authorised dealers.
I have a Haynes manual for almost every vehicle I’ve ever owned, and that’s a lot.
-
I've had Haynes manuals for most vehicles I've owned since the seventies. They're not perfect, but more of a help than a hindrance.
I've got Haynes and Clymer manuals for the 400f and I find that Haynes is good where the Clymer is weak and vice versa. I do like a printed page to refer to in the workshop. Can't beat an oily thumbed page! 👍
-
Their sales speak for themselves, if they were that bad no one would buy them. For the home mechanic doing oil changes, valve clearances and the like I think they are adequate. Perhaps if you are doing a total engine strip down and rebuild you might want to consider something more comprehensive.
-
Well I didn't expect that .. a lot more positive than I expected .. once I am back a work I will auto scan them then to pdf. and put a link to them in Alladins Cave.
I have 'em for CB250/350K, 250/360G5, 400/550 Four, 500/350 four, CB175, CB450 5-Sp, plus 750 SOHC which is already scanned and in there.
-
Do the manuals change much over the years Ash? I see that one is 1974. I probably have half a dozen of them stashed away as Eamon left me a boxfull.
-
Haynes manuals were a staple diet for me until I could afford genuine ones, they did serve me well, still have quite a few in the loft.
Cheers
Dennis
-
My two pennyworth......Haynes Manuals do serve a purpose, but I have to say that they often (more often than not) fail to tell the full story, so you are left scratching your head on whether to turn left, turn right or stand still when you reach a task which is on the critical path with rebuilding anything mechanical....brakes, engine, gearbox etc etc. Probably why so many bits are broken or engines fail to work properly despite many hours of painstaking hard work going into them !
Surely it's not too difficult for the Haynes Author to diligently read through their words when it's finished and make a simple judgement 'Does that make sense and will my readers understand what I have written' ? We all go through an Education System where somebody more knowledgeable than ourselves reviews what we have written and corrects mistakes or clarifies misunderstandings, so why shouldn't the Publishers of Haynes Manuals do exactly the same before they release their books......on their 'unsuspecting' Customers ?
I pestered Nurse Julie to have a go at writing such Manuals/ DVD's after following her recent Engine Rebuild thread on the sohc Forum.....her thread was logical, clear, to the point and easy to follow. Whilst her photos were much clearer than the crap that Haynes use, they were actually photos of the parts being assembled - not something completely different or just showing one gear of a five gear cluster when talking about assembling the complete five gear cluster and all it's associated bits !
As my old Teachers regularly used to say to me 'Must try harder' !
-
Mr Davo i am supprised you got 1.5 gears on the 5 speed triumph aas i remember it telling you to fit the hi gear sleeve gear first(one the sprocket goes on) then fit the cam plate and that is physicaly impossible
-
Do the manuals change much over the years Ash? I see that one is 1974. I probably have half a dozen of them stashed away as Eamon left me a boxfull.
I think they did update them Steve..,.. usually to cover later models introduced after the publication date of the originals rather than updating mistakes ... a bit like Honda really.
-
Ash. You may have to beware of copyright for any Haynes manual that is still in print.
-
My two pennyworth......Haynes Manuals do serve a purpose, but I have to say that they often (more often than not) fail to tell the full story, so you are left scratching your head on whether to turn left, turn right or stand still when you reach a task which is on the critical path with rebuilding anything mechanical....brakes, engine, gearbox etc etc. Probably why so many bits are broken or engines fail to work properly despite many hours of painstaking hard work going into them !
Surely it's not too difficult for the Haynes Author to diligently read through their words when it's finished and make a simple judgement 'Does that make sense and will my readers understand what I have written' ? We all go through an Education System where somebody more knowledgeable than ourselves reviews what we have written and corrects mistakes or clarifies misunderstandings, so why shouldn't the Publishers of Haynes Manuals do exactly the same before they release their books......on their 'unsuspecting' Customers ?
I pestered Nurse Julie to have a go at writing such Manuals/ DVD's after following her recent Engine Rebuild thread on the sohc Forum.....her thread was logical, clear, to the point and easy to follow. Whilst her photos were much clearer than the crap that Haynes use, they were actually photos of the parts being assembled - not something completely different or just showing one gear of a five gear cluster when talking about assembling the complete five gear cluster and all it's associated bits !
As my old Teachers regularly used to say to me 'Must try harder' !
What do Teachers know! I remember my old dad telling me of a Teacher throwing a black board rubber at him and shouting out " pay attention as, you will never get a job looking out of the window ".
Strange when you think, he was a truck driver for 40 years :) :) :)
-
That reminds me of some graffiti I saw in Rochdale
‘When I pass away I want to go quietly in my sleep like my father.
Not screaming in terror like his passengers.’
Mr Davo i am supprised you got 1.5 gears on the 5 speed triumph aas i remember it telling you to fit the hi gear sleeve gear first(one the sprocket goes on) then fit the cam plate and that is physicaly impossible
I think I left them in because I was baffled by that step, I think, I was doing an emergency crank change, like you do when you have a Triumph. I did it in a week, because it was my only transport.
The 1.5 gears was caused by the selector arm being misstimed when the inner cover was assembled as shown in the photo. I only found out when I tried to go for a ride, how I laughed!
Luckily the engine didn’t have to come out again, just the inner and outer gearbox covers. I’m not sure how I worked out the problem, of course there was no internet in those days, we thought Ceefax was cutting edge technology.
-
Week for a crank swop, you were hanging about, i replaced mains in an afternoon, admittedley a pre unit but you still had to remove engine and box
-
I did have the minor inconvenience of having to go to work during the day in the meantime. I noticed a bad knock on a Sunday afternoon, and found I could move the drive end of the crank up and down quite a long way. Luckily I had another T140V engine, which I'd bought from two lads who'd spotted it under the water in the Huddersfield Canal. The exhaust cam was seized in a bush, which was turning in the crankcase - I reckoned it had come from a bike which had been broken up (having started to make horrible noises) and dumped as an insurance job. Apart from being full of oily water, it seemed none the worse for it's early bath.
Working on the bike in the weekday evenings I put it back together on a Good Friday, which I had off, but after the gearbox shenanegans we finally set off for a bike club do in Portmaddoc late afternoon, and got there just as the club van was leaving for the pub.
I've seen pre-unit mains changed over the lunch break at a classic race meeting, I think they left the top end intact and the pistons in the barrels.