Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB500/550 => Topic started by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 18, 2022, 08:13:36 PM
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So after removing the caliper halves I saw the reason for the poor front brake - one pad has separated from its backing plate that was seized in the inside housing. Only part of one pad face was contacting the disc looking at the contac faces. The pivot was nice & free.
DS list an aftermarket pad so looking for alternatives might consider Ceranic options though I prefer a soft pad out of choice as I am not a heavy user of brakes.
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I've been using SBS ceramic pads on my 1300 for some years now. They are excellent, don't need much if any warming up, produce far less dust than organics or sintered and are kinder to the discs than sintered.
501HF for the CB500.
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Using the same SBS pads as Oddjob in my 500 double disc setup. Definately better than the pads I removed.
Old pads were not particularly worn, but lacked feel and initial bite. These are better.
Still 1972 brakes though ::)
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Ted i would not recommend the Silvers pads, i had some on my 550, which had all new caliper and master, and the first junction i came to i thought i was not going to stop! I now have some EBC pads and they are much better, but do bear in mind they do improve as they bed in and as mentioned they are 1970s design.
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Plus one on pattern pads….they make a poor brake much worse. Go for Original, Vesrah, SBS, EBC. Then plan to double disc and change the m/c. I’m using SBS in my double disc set up and it’s a front wheel locker, with an iron fist.
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Like this Ted. Improved feel and power.
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That's never going to stop Phil, it has no brake lines fitted ;D ;D ;D
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He, he. Wireless brakes😀
Old photo, obviously.
Signing off now.
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Here's my experience with EBC pads: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,188508.msg2189134.html#msg2189134
I'm not a fan of double brakes. Too much work, increased unsprung weight and also I don't like the looks. My stopping power is well within the law. Personally I prefer to be able to brake like a fool in an emergency. IMO an accident due to too powerful brakes is more likely than due to shortage of stopping power.
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I don't think anyone has ever accused the brakes on a SOHC as being too powerful.
I could lock the front wheel on my 500 with twin discs but then again I could also lock it with a single disc, depended on the road surface. Personally I found the twin disc setup looked more balanced, like twin exhausts does, it performed better and gave more confidence, you do however need to either slot or drill the discs as the smooth surface didn't help with water dispersion for instance.
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He, he. Wireless brakes😀
Some Mercs have fly by wire brakes no mechanical connection between pedal & brake system just a fancy potentiometer. You need a computer to bleed the brakes!
Brake judder like an ABS type is electronically generated to create feel etc.
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No reflection on the previous owner as they look almost brand new externally - these were the pads in my 500.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52369570714_7b76c5f125_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nMHJR1)500 pads (https://flic.kr/p/2nMHJR1) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
This is the fixed pad - it appears that the offside off the bike judging by the fork ears took the brunt of the weather / wind.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52369677895_7daf03e5c2_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nMJhGX)500 pads rusted (https://flic.kr/p/2nMJhGX) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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"This is the fixed pad - it appears that the offside off the bike judging by the fork ears took the brunt of the weather / wind."
I'd agree with that Ted. Occasionally (but more currently than I've previously known) some pads are affected by moisture causing corrosion between pad material and backing causing it to release without provocation.
Whether they were fully bonded in the first place appears to be significant from those I've seen. Evidence of rust across the whole pad area suggests a pathway through there before they finally fall off.
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The reason I checked the front brakes was something felt odd about them - they made an odd vibrating noise on application so I restricted my first ride to just around the block especially with the back brake needing adjustment on the spline.
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I have always used EBC on my bike and they always work well. They have a tendency to squeal but that's when I know they are correctly adjusted. The brake on these bikes is rather primitive but is more effective than it 'feels'.
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After a lot of dithering on options & prices I finally fitted a pair of Brembo Carbon/Ceramic normal street pads.
Filled the old fully drained brake system with some Silicone Dot 5.0 then bled them doing my test tube fluid check after standing overnight.
Sign of very small blob of old fluid in test tube so re-flushed - all now clear after another overnight stand.
I'm going to do a final fit of the coils fitting them facing backwards as per Ken's tip then back on with the tank ready for another road test.
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If I'm correctly informed, you should have used 5.1.
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If I'm correctly informed, you should have used 5.1.
In motorcycles I use Slicone Dot 5.0 not Hygroscopic & not corrosive on paint with marginally lower boiling point than 5.1 but better than previous Dot fluids.
The Dot 5.1 is a Glycol based so its corrosive on paint & Hydrascopic so needs periodic changes.
I use Dot 5.1 in my cars as it's virtually impossible to change all the fluid to Dot 5.0 due to the ABS systems and dual braking arrangements.
Like many things it's pretty much down to personal choice - just do not mix 5.0 with any other fluid.
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I have always used EBC on my bike and they always work well. They have a tendency to squeal but that's when I know they are correctly adjusted. The brake on these bikes is rather primitive but is more effective than it 'feels'.
I used EBC pads in an attempt to stop the squeal from my front brake and it didn’t help. But I saw a recent post talking about chamfering the edges of the pads which I did and squeal seems to have gone. I have no idea why this happens!!!!
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I had EBC pads (FA13 set). I found them rather primitive. They sqealed like hell and I haven't used them for long. They wore unevenly to a degree I'm not used to. The difference in width, front and rear is 1,3mm. Don't know what to think of that, but I have returned to OEM. I have read somewhere that it's better to remove the paint on the side of these EBC pads. Gives you just a little more clearance. Maybe you can even use some old brake fluid to remove that paint. :)
BTW, what is against renewing just one pad, knowing pad B? This pad (B) on mine is nearing its red line. Pad A is still good. I have a spare pad B, which is as good as pad A is now. In principle pad B can wiggle, due to its form, the slight hump on its backside, so it can position itself and will make full contact with the disk, once the brake is applied. Am I missing something?
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You can change just one pad if you are sure they are the same make and grade
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I used EBC pads in an attempt to stop the squeal from my front brake and it didn’t help. But I saw a recent post talking about chamfering the edges of the pads which I did and squeal seems to have gone. I have no idea why this happens!!!!
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I have posted previously that almost all modern cars have chamfered brake pads - I know it works but have no idea why - it's been my experience that the harder the pad the worse the squeal.
Edited Google search says:-
Chamfers can control how the edge of the pad interacts with the disc and can help prevent noise. Chamfers do this by making sure the largest possible edge of the pad makes contact with the discs.
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You can change just one pad if you are sure they are the same make and grade
Yes, they are.
@Ted. Here's a hypothesis to be tested. On my Koga Miyata Terraliner, a hybrid bicycle, I used to fit the V-brakes thus, that the front part would contact the rim first. I did this on purpose, after I had learned in a bicycle workshop that you could cure screeching by the opposite, by having their rear parts contact the rim first. The opposite would make your brakes screech and they did like hell. Worked great in alarming pedestrians to get out of the way. I admit I was childish. :-[
Now on our bikes the inner pad can wiggle somewhat and personally I don't think that one is the culprit. But... could sqealing eventually be cured by seeing to it, that of the outer pad - the one activated by the piston - the rear part contacts the disk first by a millisecond?
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In order to transfer kinetic energy and thus slow down the bike, the pads must apply friction creating heat and, in the case of my bike, sound energy in the form of a loud squeaking. My brakes need all the help they can get so I'm happy with the squeaking. It tells me some energy transfer is taking place ;D
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Anecdotal update:-
I sent a message to the supplier of my Brembo Pads as they came without the nylon type pad asking if they could supply one.
They say they are sending me a complete replacement set as the nylon pad should have been in the package.
It will be interesting to see what they actually send me.
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Ted get some sleep. Just seen time of your post 4.10 am? Often think that with various members. Kens a "good in" too for posts by moonlight!😱
Save your build energy guys!
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Just a one off Insomnia day - up an hour in the middle of the night - slept again until 9.00am. 🥱🥱🥱
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Just a one off Insomnia day - up an hour in the middle of the night - slept again until 9.00am. 🥱🥱🥱
Ted it has taken me many years to realise that rather than trying to get to sleep I just get up.....
Matt
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I still need a few more years to learn that lesson - I'm only 74 you know!
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I don't go to bed till very late, most days around 3-4am. I don't get up early unless I have something planned, can't see the point. After many years on nights my body has adapted to this regime and I tend to fall back into the rhythm whenever I have more than a few weeks off work. To counter that I will work late till 1-2am on the bike if I'm in the mood.
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Ken is right, 20 odd years of nights dont half bugger up the days off
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I did over 22 years of shift work, continentals, 3 shift and for 2/3 years before I retired from my main job 12 hour shifts 2 days 2 off 2 nights 2off. That was worse than 7 nights like before.
Consequently my body clock is messed up.
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I just tell people my body clock battery is flat but they aint inserting a new one!
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I don't go to bed till very late, most days around 3-4am. I don't get up early unless I have something planned, can't see the point. After many years on nights my body has adapted to this regime and I tend to fall back into the rhythm whenever I have more than a few weeks off work. To counter that I will work late till 1-2am on the bike if I'm in the mood.
I'm glad that it not just me that does that. Always been a bit of a night owl. 🦉