Post by: philward on November 23, 2022, 09:50:06 PM
My first road bike was a cb250k3 and in recent years fancied a K0.
Ash is going to be asked a lot of questions over the coming months!(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221123/eaf8cceb77e4a9aeb5280b2adb8c1dd4.jpg)
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Post by: Laverdaroo on November 23, 2022, 10:19:38 PM
Post by: philward on November 23, 2022, 11:14:52 PM
With the low miles (assuming correct) I'm planning to get it started first, then register and then do the rebuild. The misus says I've become (more) grumpy since I've finished the 500 build and encouraged me to buy the 250!
Post by: Laverda Dave on November 24, 2022, 10:17:45 AM
Oh yes, I can relate 100% with that statement Phil. I've become the same since finishing the Triton build. I always have a project lined up for winter but not this year, there's nothing out there I like at the moment at a decent price. I fancied a 650 Bros but our Mayor has killed that idea with his ULEZ charges (soon to be extended to inside the M25 and that will also kill off my VFR unless I want to pay £300 to send it to a ULEZ compliance test that it may fail!). I might look for a CB550, as they have the right amount of power and weight (and ULEZ exempt 😁).
Good luck with your restoration, that looks like a very nice bike to get stuck into over the winter👍
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 24, 2022, 10:26:45 AM
the head got over ruled by the heart The misus says I've become (more) grumpy since I've finished the 500 build and encouraged me to buy the 250!I can identify the above - but would add that if I mention what I've done on the bike I get the eye roll.
Post by: Trigger on November 24, 2022, 10:29:14 AM
Post by: philward on November 24, 2022, 10:48:05 AM
Post by: philward on November 24, 2022, 10:50:24 AM
Quote 'The misus says I've become (more) grumpy since I've finished the 500 build'Thanks Dave
Oh yes, I can relate 100% with that statement Phil. I've become the same since finishing the Triton build. I always have a project lined up for winter but not this year, there's nothing out there I like at the moment at a decent price. I fancied a 650 Bros but our Mayor has killed that idea with his ULEZ charges (soon to be extended to inside the M25 and that will also kill off my VFR unless I want to pay £300 to send it to a ULEZ compliance test that it may fail!). I might look for a CB550, as they have the right amount of power and weight (and ULEZ exempt 😁).
Good luck with your restoration, that looks like a very nice bike to get stuck into over the winter👍
Post by: paul G on November 24, 2022, 11:35:48 AM
Can't do that Graham! 'Patina' (ie rust and corrosion!) drives me mad! Its just the way I am. Its the rebuilding that I'm missing at the moment, Just got to put the ZZR250 that was going to be my next project on eBay to pay for some chromomg or exhausts!
I HATE that word Patina >:(
Post by: AshimotoK0 on November 24, 2022, 12:20:37 PM
There was a semi-pro 350K0 auctioned a few years back from a museum and I nabbed the hi res pics and they are here: Great restorer reference
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/pa0dpqqtsscqp4d/AADMndCfJq94BCucO1RLnXiqa?dl=0
Post by: philward on November 24, 2022, 12:29:16 PM
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Post by: andy120t on November 24, 2022, 12:37:40 PM
Post by: philward on November 24, 2022, 12:45:29 PM
Its the twin cylinder ZZR Andy and theres not a lot of difference in power I don't think!
How about sticking the ZZR engine in that ? ( steel helmet on, duck and run for cover…)
Post by: Matt_Harrington on November 24, 2022, 01:38:16 PM
Quote ' I fancied a 650 Bros but our Mayor has killed that idea with his ULEZ charges (soon to be extended to inside the M25 and that will also kill off my VFR unless I want to pay £300 to send it to a ULEZ compliance test that it may fail!). I might look for a CB550, as they have the right amount of power and weight (and ULEZ exempt 😁).Dave, do you know if Historic Motorbikes are exempt - something I haven't thought about until now.....
Matt
Post by: Oddjob on November 24, 2022, 01:40:46 PM
Post by: Johnny4428 on November 24, 2022, 01:54:16 PM
Post by: paul G on November 24, 2022, 02:29:45 PM
Post by: Laverda Dave on November 24, 2022, 05:34:19 PM
Quote ' I fancied a 650 Bros but our Mayor has killed that idea with his ULEZ charges (soon to be extended to inside the M25 and that will also kill off my VFR unless I want to pay £300 to send it to a ULEZ compliance test that it may fail!). I might look for a CB550, as they have the right amount of power and weight (and ULEZ exempt 😁).Dave, do you know if Historic Motorbikes are exempt - something I haven't thought about until now.....
Matt
Yes they are Matt, in London anyway.
My VFR should pass the ULEZ test as it's FI but I'll refit the original silencer prior to the test as the Scorpion end can currently fitted (with the baffle) is probably 'dirty'.
Post by: Oddjob on November 24, 2022, 06:06:38 PM
Post by: Laverda Dave on November 25, 2022, 12:03:03 AM
Post by: K2-K6 on November 26, 2022, 07:11:50 PM
Dave, have you got figures for what the vfr should be, test results, and legislation limit applied to it ?
Is there anyone carrying out testing on individual vehicles for private use, does that then give a statement to be recorded on vehicle's log book/registration?
Many thanks.
Post by: Oddjob on November 26, 2022, 08:34:28 PM
Just found a post I did on it on the 1300 forum.
It appears that to get around ULEZ laws you need an engine that produces a Nox value below 0.15, now Honda in their infinite wisdom didn't show this on your V5, they should have but they didn't. So there are a few things you can do, pay the daily £12.50 charge or get the bike tested, place in Romford charges £175 to test the bike and give you a certificate of the results, if your lucky it's below the threshold, if your not you've just lost £175.
BUT
You can ask Honda for a Certificate of Conformity, it's free of charge unless you lose it in which case they charge for a replacement, moral of this story is DON'T lose it. The Certificate officially states the exact specs and includes full emissions date for a specific frame/engine number as tested and provided by Honda.
So ask for this on this website
https://www.honda.co.uk/motorcycles/my-b...rmity.html
If it returns with good news eg less than 0.15 Nox, then scan your Certificate and your V5 and send them to the TFL website and your trusty steed should be exempt when they reply in writing.
The author of this info just got his 2005 900 Hornet made exempt so give it a whirl, if one passes you'd imagine they'll all pass. Saves you buying a new bike if your in London.
Just for further info, the Euro2 Cb1300 had a Nox figure of 0.164 but my euro3 Cb1300 was according to the conformity certificate a NoX figure of only 0.056 which goes to show what a difference it makes. The euro2 model didn't have any CATs in the exhaust, the euro3 has 2 plus lambda sensors etc and a revised ecu setting.
Post by: Toko_Jo on November 26, 2022, 10:38:19 PM
Nice buy Phil. Do you have the bike at home yet and if so, what state are the mega rare one-piece exhausts in ?
Funny, we never got Pine Green bikes here and the USA never got Sardine Blue like we did (both solid colours)
Luckily it's not still sporting the hydraulic cam chain tensioner ...what a disaster that was. You will need to check out the rubber diaphragms on the early squared-off bowl carbs. They were notorious for splitting and the pressed together diaphragm / slide assembly expensive to replace although I believe NPR does a replacement kit, which involves cutting off the top plastic retainer ring though.
Post by: philward on November 26, 2022, 11:12:52 PM
Tank needs only little work and side panels undamaged and will be changed to the Ruby Red.
Both guards are undented and chrome OK - will be re-chromed. Wheel rim chrome good and will be used as is. Fork ears are bent but just ordered the last ones in stock at DS.
I have been nagging Ash (our reident 250/350 expert - in case you are unaware) for info and he's already helped me a lot - pointed me to the last available chrome chainguard for example.
Post by: AshimotoK0 on November 27, 2022, 08:37:54 AM
I bet you that DK have nabbed the rare K0/K1 only chromed chain-guard off that bike.
When I bought this 'Pine' Green one below, they had nabbed the seat, carbs, side panels a week before and put them on a CB350K3 they sold via eBay. (note the K1 tank extra stripe)
I am not complaining though because it cost me less than a grand because they had done that, as nobody else bid. When I picked it up the guy there said he had found me a lovely set of carbs and some side panels and included them FOC... turns out the carbs were indeed immaculate but off a CB360G5 and the red side-panels were off the K3 they had sold the week before, that they had put my K1 side panels onto ::). Bonus though was that the girl in the office found the USA title, which they didn't realise they had.
Same thing happened with a lovely CB500K0 a friend bought ...the only thing it had missing was the grab-rail/indicators....... I had bought a lovely grab rail/inds. the previous week via eBay from them, so work that one out. WHY do they do that?
[attachimg=1]
Post by: AshimotoK0 on November 27, 2022, 08:50:57 AM
Post by: K2-K6 on November 27, 2022, 09:02:11 AM
What content in the last 5 posts has anything to do with Phil's 'Money-Pit' CB350K0 restoration. ::)
Nice buy Phil. Do you have the bike at home yet and if so, what state are the mega rare one-piece exhausts in ?
Funny, we never got Pine Green bikes here and the USA never got Sardine Blue like we did (both solid colours)
Luckily it's not still sporting the hydraulic cam chain tensioner ...what a disaster that was. You will need to check out the rubber diaphragms on the early squared-off bowl carbs. They were notorious for splitting and the pressed together diaphragm / slide assembly expensive to replace although I believe NPR does a replacement kit, which involves cutting off the top plastic retainer ring though.
Well, we do "talk amongst ourselves" on here with many threads having various topic running concurrently, that's certainly not a slight on the original topic and how interesting it is. Some forum get itchy about thread drift but here it seems we're adequately equipped to marshal those different strand with aplomb and with all the postings getting avidly read, it's not a bad way of going about things.
Good that the bike has turned up now to advance the thread and always look forward to seeing such varied bikes saved and brought back to life with the hard work put in by the owners.
Post by: philward on November 27, 2022, 11:13:49 AM
Hmm .. I wonder ::) ::) !You were right then Ash!
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Post by: Oddjob on November 27, 2022, 02:29:46 PM
Post by: AshimotoK0 on November 27, 2022, 08:11:01 PM
Post by: philward on November 27, 2022, 10:39:13 PM
Post by: philward on March 11, 2023, 06:31:06 PM
(badge's on loosely)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230311/023a3eaaa4db4acd54cbcbca59a87fb4.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230311/e1648acf48b49e3d1ad419119537c1bb.jpg)
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Post by: Laverdaroo on March 11, 2023, 07:22:04 PM
Smashing colour too. Not surprised you’re chuffed, I would be.
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Post by: Oddjob on March 11, 2023, 07:29:00 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on March 11, 2023, 07:30:40 PM
Post by: philward on March 11, 2023, 07:55:50 PM
Yeah, looks great Phil, same bloke who did the 500 tank for you?
Yep, same guy with RS Paints recommended Ruby Red paint
Post by: philward on March 11, 2023, 07:58:39 PM
What's with all the light reflections Christmas is over.
My misus is fairy lights mad Ted
Post by: Johnny4428 on March 11, 2023, 08:16:33 PM
Post by: philward on September 11, 2023, 10:36:37 PM
Just waiting for the recently rechromed side panel badges to be painted to match the tank, warning decals and tune up, then need to get it registered. Enjoyed this build but my last classic build I think.
Post by: philward on September 11, 2023, 10:38:14 PM
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Post by: Rozabikes Tim on September 11, 2023, 10:43:28 PM
Post by: Nurse Julie on September 11, 2023, 10:43:37 PM
Post by: Trigger on September 11, 2023, 11:33:08 PM
Post by: Athame57 on September 11, 2023, 11:37:24 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 11, 2023, 11:47:11 PM
Post by: Bryanj on September 12, 2023, 02:19:28 AM
Post by: AshimotoK0 on September 12, 2023, 07:07:27 AM
Those emblems are great in that they are mode out of brass and chrome beautifully. The '250' version is rare now as is the 'TYPE 1" points cover ... and yes there was a type2 it was the 68/69 CD250 JDM model with 60°crank.
[attachimg=1]
Post by: Laverdaroo on September 12, 2023, 07:38:15 AM
Good man
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Post by: Johnny4428 on September 12, 2023, 07:45:55 AM
Red is faster Ted, otherwise fire engines would be a different colour!😂😂😂
Post by: Trigger on September 12, 2023, 08:21:43 AM
Looking spiffing Phil .. you need a tiddler to restore next. S90? They are lovely little bikes.
Those emblems are great in that they are mode out of brass and chrome beautifully. The '250' version is rare now as is the 'TYPE 1" points cover ... and yes there was a type2 it was the 68/69 CD250 JDM model with 60°crank.
(Attachment Link)
That is a lot of bling mate ;D ;D ;D
Post by: AshimotoK0 on September 12, 2023, 08:24:57 AM
Looking spiffing Phil .. you need a tiddler to restore next. S90? They are lovely little bikes.
Those emblems are great in that they are mode out of brass and chrome beautifully. The '250' version is rare now as is the 'TYPE 1" points cover ... and yes there was a type2 it was the 68/69 CD250 JDM model with 60°crank.
(Attachment Link)
That is a lot of bling mate ;D ;D ;D
"A collector of shiny parts " ;D ;D
Post by: philward on September 12, 2023, 08:26:10 AM
And I was just about to say the same about those chrome parts Graham - few bobs worth of rare parts there Ash!
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Post by: Trigger on September 12, 2023, 08:28:16 AM
Looking spiffing Phil .. you need a tiddler to restore next. S90? They are lovely little bikes.
Those emblems are great in that they are mode out of brass and chrome beautifully. The '250' version is rare now as is the 'TYPE 1" points cover ... and yes there was a type2 it was the 68/69 CD250 JDM model with 60°crank.
(Attachment Link)
That is a lot of bling mate ;D ;D ;D
"A collector of shiny parts " ;D ;D
Too many! We will have to talk about this the next time we meet up for a sunday lunch mate ;D ;D ;D
Post by: Laverda Dave on September 12, 2023, 08:32:21 AM
Post by: philward on September 12, 2023, 08:51:35 AM
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Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 12, 2023, 09:12:39 AM
Red is faster Ted, otherwise fire engines would be a different colour!
What about the Green Goddess ?
Post by: Athame57 on September 12, 2023, 09:49:05 AM
What about the Green Goddess ?That's Elen of the Ways, after whom I named my bike! ;D
Post by: Bryanj on September 12, 2023, 10:04:02 AM
Post by: Johnny4428 on September 12, 2023, 10:35:07 AM
(amendment)
Sorry Phil, I was giving Ash a little more credit than he deserves on this occasion. Lovely job. Love the colour.
Post by: AshimotoK0 on September 12, 2023, 11:35:32 AM
That’s a lovely resto job there Ash! A real credit along with that impressive display of valuable parts.
It's not my resto it's Phils !! But I do have 5 of that model type I am restoring .. hence the shiny parts. CB250K0 x2 , CB250K2 (all genuine UK) & JDM250 (like in attached) & CB350K1 (USA)
I don't have a problem BTW being a collector of shiny parts .. doesn't bother me in the least .. seems to be others that have a problem with it ;D ;D ;D
Post by: mickwinf on September 12, 2023, 01:17:28 PM
Post by: Seabeowner on September 12, 2023, 06:58:50 PM
Post by: philward on September 22, 2023, 05:28:11 PM
The results supports our known fact that our money pit rebuilds nearly always cost more than the value. Just thought I'd post the results out of interest. Bear in mind all work was done myself except chrome and bodywork paint - ie, zinc plating, engine work, etc. (and chrome rims not replaced on this build) Here goes!
Purchase Price (DK) £1801
DS sourced Spares £790
Other sourced spares £886
Painter Labour (all Candy Paint) £300
Chrome (from local expensive firm) £925
Total £4702
So (and I know this is nothing new and we all know this but worth putting an actual figure on it), my enjoyment of rebuilding a bike has cost about £1200 assuming I could get £3500 for it.
As said previously in this thread, this will be my last 'classic build' - my next one will be an 80's build where there is less chrome and no candy paint so I can do it all myself - ie, still get the enjoyment of the build but less cost. Hope its of interest.
Post by: AshimotoK0 on September 22, 2023, 06:35:19 PM
Here is a prime example. I had to remind a friend that this was once his own bike !
https://www.classichondamotorcycles.co.uk/bikedetail.aspx?bike=5382
Post by: philward on September 22, 2023, 06:41:20 PM
Know what you mean Phil.Actually Ash, that reminds me, I didn't add the cost of the silencers you sorted for me! So thats around £5k build cost
Here is a prime example. I had to remind a friend that this was once his own bike !
https://www.classichondamotorcycles.co.uk/bikedetail.aspx?bike=5382
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 22, 2023, 06:54:54 PM
Mine does not have genuine rear dampers, exhaust system or headlamp, not re-painted either.
My 400 that I rebuilt works out as follows.
Cost Price incl delivery £2045
Parts, rebore, machining etc £4639
CWC wheels & tyres £964
Total cost £7648
I think I might struggle to recoup 70% of the above outlay. - I do not think I will ever sell it.
Post by: Laverda Dave on September 22, 2023, 09:29:28 PM
I was lucky with my RSA as I paid £415 for it 22 years ago and used it as my daily rider. When I restored it I worked out it had cost me around £2750. I therefore did well as I'd got so much use and enjoyment from it riding it and then restoring it.
The 400/4 I restored for the o/h and she didn't like due to the weight I lost out on big time although I did enjoy restoring it.
The silver lining about all our restorations though is that it's our hobby and the cost of the restoration is spread over a long period of time.
Post by: philward on October 05, 2023, 02:02:06 PM
Anyway, as the original brass 'bread bin' style floats had a small amount of petrol in them, I checked whether there was any obvious leaks, which there wasn't when submerged in jug of water. so drilled a 1mm hole in each float and allowed to drain over night on some kitchen roll. The petrol was stagnant and obviously been in there for some time. Soldered up the holes. Set floats at 19mm. Idle screws sync'ed and carbs sync'ed via cables. Timing/points re-checked and spot on. As per previous post, compression 160psi on both sides.
After re-assembling everything and starting the bike, the bike didn't need choke (cut out if choke applied) and generally running rough (sounds too rich to me). Also 'hangs' on returning to idle. Revs fine in middle and upper range. Although only warmed up and run in the garage, the plugs are sooty.
I'm wondering whether the floats are too high and causing rich running.
Also got a noisy tappet that I've checked as OK when stone cold (but going to check again). As these have the eccentric cams adjustment from the side of the cambox, I've adjusted the tappet in question while the engine is running and 'tap' only goes when the engine revs drop (clearly holding valve open). On rebuild, checked rockers visually and all looked ok - didn't check eccentric rocker shaft with a micrometer.
Thought I'd get your opinion before doing any further work (possible engine out again).
Thanks again in anticipation
Post by: Oddjob on October 05, 2023, 02:18:45 PM
Post by: philward on October 05, 2023, 02:37:51 PM
You got the square type float Phil or the round type as there are different float heights for both.Square type Ken - info says 18.5mm to 19.5mm for square (later round type 23mm - 26mm I think). New square one's don't seem to be available even as pattern.
The Honda manual for the 350 quotes using a Honda tool that measures angle of the float not a size in mm - info for the square type float comes from the web (various forums) - making me think about too higher float bowl level
Post by: Oddjob on October 05, 2023, 02:51:35 PM
You sure the idle jet mixture screw opening isn't blocked?
Post by: philward on October 05, 2023, 02:54:25 PM
Post by: Oddjob on October 05, 2023, 03:03:41 PM
Post by: philward on October 05, 2023, 03:43:11 PM
Post by: K2-K6 on October 05, 2023, 04:13:49 PM
Things like air passage to slide volume/lift chamber, springs on slide if it has them etc will all have more effect in error at low rpm.
Possibly look at opening the static tickover rpm to lift it slightly, then make idle circuit richer to calm it down, that can give better "quenching" of throttle shut idle establishment.
Are the idle adjustment within decent range when you set the screws ?
Post by: philward on October 05, 2023, 04:33:48 PM
'Possibly look at opening the static tickover rpm to lift it slightly, then make idle circuit richer to calm it down, that can give better "quenching" of throttle shut idle establishment.'
- Just going out now but will have a go at that tomorrow
Are the idle adjustment within decent range when you set the screws ?
- they decrease revs when screwed in or out from 3/4 turn out setting - (3/4 turn out is half way ish from engine hesitation when screwed in or out) but not sure if thats a decent range?
Post by: K2-K6 on October 05, 2023, 09:54:53 PM
Then adjust the tickover speed first (presumably there's a stop screw in each carb for static baseline speed) to see if it gives competent running and speed with throttle closed.
Then assessment from there.