Post by: AndyD on October 19, 2020, 09:58:40 AM
Finally seems DSS are getting both DID rims in stock shortly so I've ordered these up and am just wondering what tools are worthwhile / essential.
I guess a spoke spanner - Amazon have a few different ones but any recommendations very welcome
Is a stand of some kind essential / useful / just another dust-collecting bit of kit for the garage?
Cheers,
Andy
Post by: allankelly1 on October 19, 2020, 10:23:27 AM
I think a stand is a must
If you want where are you are I am willing to post my one I made for my wheel build as now my wheels are done I don’t need it anymore and if I did need one I would just make up fabricate another one like I did first time
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201019/6ad90c565705c879202c99203c06f94d.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201019/ef617f4c0e5a75d779ea1a58f60e408c.jpg)
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Post by: billdn on October 19, 2020, 05:43:35 PM
Plus also buy as much patience as you can afford and tea/coffee and when it gets frustrating walk away! Good news about DS having stock in, still waiting for replacement front rim from duff batch they sent me.
Post by: Bryanj on October 19, 2020, 05:53:30 PM
Post by: philward on October 19, 2020, 08:24:43 PM
Hi Andy
I think a stand is a must
If you want where are you are I am willing to post my one I made for my wheel build as now my wheels are done I don’t need it anymore and if I did need one I would just make up fabricate another one like I did first time
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201019/6ad90c565705c879202c99203c06f94d.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201019/ef617f4c0e5a75d779ea1a58f60e408c.jpg)
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I'm just about to start start my wheel build and if Andy doesn't take you up on your offer, can I take you up on your offer Alan?
Post by: allankelly1 on October 19, 2020, 08:32:01 PM
Like I said I don’t think I will need it again and if I do I will just make another at work
All I ask is that you cover the post
Best wishes Al
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Post by: Bryanj on October 19, 2020, 08:42:53 PM
Look at one of each spoke plus the hub, one type of spoke goes from outside to inside(you can see the head of the spoke from the outside), the other type has the head on the inside of the hub flange you will normaly find witness marks on the hub flange.
Take the set that go from outside to inside and fit to the hub.
Lace these 20(if its a 500/550/750--16 if 400) to the rim tighten evenly and true the wheel using a stand or whatever remembering that the rim will "kick" where it is welded and that a DTI is way too accurate, both Honda and VOSA(MOT) state 3mm(1/8 inch) for both ideways and radial max limit.
Because there are only 20 spokes to work with its easier to true but do get all 20 at even tension, the ding test is fine,
You can now easily fit the other set of spokes one by one and tighten evenly.
NOTE:-
You must get the type of spoke in the correct order as you can not fit the outside to inside spokes second without bending them!!!
Post by: allankelly1 on October 19, 2020, 08:53:58 PM
I think having a plunging DTI take the guess work out of what is high and low when trying to see the run out and make the truing process much easier
For my set up I had two
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201019/f98852ece1d23eb79e0abc92eab71e03.jpg)
The only thing I did was fit mine with a plastic slipper like in the photo so I did not mark my alloy rims
Sorry to disagree
Best wishes Al
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Post by: philward on October 19, 2020, 10:12:25 PM
Of course you can
Like I said I don’t think I will need it again and if I do I will just make another at work
All I ask is that you cover the post
Best wishes Al
Thanks Al, out of courtesy I will wait for Andy to respond and message you if Andy doesn't want to take up your kind offer
Thanks again
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Post by: allankelly1 on October 19, 2020, 10:59:41 PM
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Post by: AndyD on October 20, 2020, 08:08:05 AM
That's a really generous offer thanks and sorry for not replying sooner - still can't get the balance of work to hobby right!
DS say the rims should be in 'shortly' but that could I guess mean anything so if Phil is in more immediate need please tie up with him first as I'd really hate the thought of someone else needing them while they sat in my garage waiting for the bits to arrive!
I can always get / make a stand later if needed as there is no rush to get wheels finished
Bill - thanks, patience isn't one of my strengths so I'll add some to the shopping list as I normally fall back on foul language and bigger, heavier tools when patience runs out.
DS didn't have a firm date on the rims but thought it may be as soon as this week / next week but sounds like it's all a bit hit and miss on delivery dates at the moment for them.
Bryan - thanks for confirming the build sequence. No doubt there will be some questions when the bits arrive.
Cheers,
Andy
Post by: billdn on October 20, 2020, 12:17:42 PM
Post by: AndyD on October 20, 2020, 06:49:58 PM
Luckily I've got spare complete original wheels to compare to which will hopefully make it easier
Cheers,
Andy
Post by: philward on October 20, 2020, 08:36:50 PM
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In light of Andy's response I PM you Alan to make arrangents - Thanks again
Post by: allankelly1 on October 20, 2020, 08:38:27 PM
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In light of Andy's response I PM you Alan to make arrangents - Thanks again
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Post by: Seamus on October 21, 2020, 08:39:09 AM
When I did mine, I used a magic marker to indicate the offset of the rim. I marked in 0.2 mm steps. Gives a good guide to which way the wheel needs adjusting.
Think the spokes work in every 4th rim hole from the hub, once you get the orientation of the dimple to hub sorted.
HTH
Post by: philward on November 06, 2020, 02:37:12 PM
Look at the bent end of the spokes and sort them out into the two different sorts.
Look at one of each spoke plus the hub, one type of spoke goes from outside to inside(you can see the head of the spoke from the outside), the other type has the head on the inside of the hub flange you will normaly find witness marks on the hub flange.
Take the set that go from outside to inside and fit to the hub.
Lace these 20(if its a 500/550/750--16 if 400) to the rim tighten evenly and true the wheel using a stand or whatever remembering that the rim will "kick" where it is welded and that a DTI is way too accurate, both Honda and VOSA(MOT) state 3mm(1/8 inch) for both ideways and radial max limit.
Because there are only 20 spokes to work with its easier to true but do get all 20 at even tension, the ding test is fine,
You can now easily fit the other set of spokes one by one and tighten evenly.
NOTE:-
You must get the type of spoke in the correct order as you can not fit the outside to inside spokes second without bending them!!!
Just preparing to start rebuilding the wheels having just received the rebuild stand (thanks Alan). Just a basic question. The 2 sets of 20 spokes are obviously different at the angled end. One is a clear 90 degrees and the other set is a gentler bend. Which one goes outside to inside?
Post by: Bryanj on November 06, 2020, 05:40:08 PM
Post by: AndyD on November 07, 2020, 06:21:21 PM
Having a spare original wheel for comparison was a godsend!
Starting on the fun bit of truing the wheel and having 'enjoyed' time watching a few videos on line I've got a couple of questions hopefully someone can help with...
Should the spokes be tightened up at all before starting to true the wheel?
Seems most recommend truing the radial direction first and this is done by tweaking the inner spokes only (the outside to inside ones)
For the sideways truing is this also done just with the inside spokes or does this need the outer ones also fitted?
At what stage do you tighten all the spokes to the correct tension - if after truing does this throw the wheel back out of true?
Is there any explanation of the ding test or how to know how tight to do the spokes?
Finally it looks like the new DSS spokes will have a bit of thread showing once tightened, where the original ones seemed to have all thread inside the nipples - is that correct?
Cheers,
Andy
Post by: Bryanj on November 07, 2020, 06:27:44 PM
Post by: AndyD on November 07, 2020, 06:43:31 PM
The visible thread is on the other side, i.e. towards the hub - on the old wheel all the thread seems to be inside the nipple, although I haven't tightened anything very much yet so guess it may change then.
Cheers,
Andy
Post by: AndyD on November 09, 2020, 12:06:56 PM
My nervous gremlin is just wittering on in my ear that I have no idea if the spoke tension is right as these are the first wheels I've built.
Is there any way to check this myself or am I best taking the wheels to someone to do a once over for peace of mind?
Cheers,
Andy
Post by: AshimotoK0 on November 09, 2020, 12:23:29 PM
Got both wheels laced and trued without any real drama - happy so far.
My nervous gremlin is just wittering on in my ear that I have no idea if the spoke tension is right as these are the first wheels I've built.
Is there any way to check this myself or am I best taking the wheels to someone to do a once over for peace of mind?
Cheers,
Andy
I would tap each one lightly and make sure they make the same 'ting' sound .. If any go 'tong' they are not tight enough :) Just my two-pence worth, as that's what I do.
Post by: AndyD on November 09, 2020, 12:55:15 PM
That's as technical as I got so far and is probably all that's needed.
All spokes sound similar and none are 'tonging'.
Having never done a wheel before I have no experience of the right sound but guess if the spokes are all tight and sound similar it's probably OK.
I often think too much these days - can't help smiling when remembering the stuff we did to our bikes back in the 80's without any thought or fear.
Cheers,
Andy
Post by: philward on November 09, 2020, 02:47:56 PM
Thanks Ash,
That's as technical as I got so far and is probably all that's needed.
All spokes sound similar and none are 'tonging'.
Having never done a wheel before I have no experience of the right sound but guess if the spokes are all tight and sound similar it's probably OK.
I often think too much these days - can't help smiling when remembering the stuff we did to our bikes back in the 80's without any thought or fear.
Cheers,
I built my wheels this weekend too and it was the first time building wheels completely (I have built a set before but I took them to a local ex Honda mechanic to do final allignment). I could of wrote your post word for word and still pondering whether to take them to a wheel builder in Southport to have them checked - as I need tyres fitting anyway
Andy
Post by: AndyD on November 09, 2020, 03:46:03 PM
As a comparison I thought I'd ping the spokes on the spare set of wheels but that just showed how bad they were as the variation in note was massive - yet I'd have happily ridden the bike without checking them if it wasn't being restored.
I've no idea who would be able to check the wheels around here - maybe I'll try the tyre places and see if that's an option.
Cheers,
Andy