Honda-SOHC
General => New Member Introductions => Topic started by: Oldbuthopeful on May 10, 2011, 12:20:03 PM
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Hi All
I'm Dave from Stockport. 'Oldbuthopeful' refers to the fact that I'm old enough to have ridden a 650 Ariel twin at 90mph on an 'A' road with cap turned back-to-front and not broken the law. I was 17 at the time ! The 'hopeful' bit is about getting the CB550K3 I'm building onto the road this summer. Well..........we all have to have a dream !
My wife thinks I'm slightly bonkers, building a bike at my age but, not having had a bike for many years, I decided last December to buy a job lot on Ebay and have a final fling. It was done on a bit of an impulse - I've never had a 'four' or even ridden one but it's a bit like climbing mountains, you don't have to have a reason to do these things, you just do them because they're there and anyway, time's running out !
So this box of bits is coming together quite nicely - wheels rebuilt, forks re-chromed, many weeks pocket money spent with Dave Silvers and all being assembled onto a frame that one of the PO's had had powder coated. He'd obviously started the rebuild - yokes, swingarm, airbox, fuses, loom etc all fitted but I've come to a dead stop because I can't get the back wheel complete with spindle, chain adjusters, collars etc to go into the open swingarm fork ends. I need another 10mm or so in width and am beginning to think the cut-down bobbin spacer in with all the other bits must have been some PO's answer to the problem. Trouble is, if I use that instead of the new bobbin I bought, the wheel appears to be slightly offset to the right. Any help from you guys out there would be greatly appreciated.
Good job I can keep stroking the re-sprayed tank and the new seat !!
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Can't help you out specificaly but can tell you that while all the other 500/550 wheels /spacers look the same the 550K3 is unique and has all the bits different except the brake shoes.
What you need to do is find somebody with one that is original and get them to measure all the bits and pieces whilst hoping the hub you have is the right one!
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i have one in parts , back wheel happens to be out
let me know exactly what you want measured and i will post up for you
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Wow ! - that's what I call instant response. Thanks Mike.
Firstly, could you give me the distance between the inside faces of the swingarm fork ends. Mine's 235mm.
Then, it would help if I knew that my hub is the right one. Mine measures 130mm from the rear face of the sprocket to the machined edge of the brake drum (the face the brake backplate sits against).
The webs and the area behind the sprocket that houses the cush drive seems very chunky to me and is possibly what's pushing the wheel off-centre. Could it perhaps be off say a 750 ? Hope not !
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i will do it tonight for you after work :)
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Hi Dave, Another Newbie here and also working on a 77 550K3
Can't help with the wheel dimensions you asked for cos mines being "sorted" but I've just measured the swingarm width and mine is 240mm
My rear spindle spacer is 32mm.
Hope that helps a little
Cheers
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Thanks Timbo ! Good of you to respond like that. So your swingarm is 5mm wider than mine. Well, that extra 5mil would help, but I'd still be looking for another 5 at least, so I'm not out of the woods yet. The 'chopped' spindle spacer I have (and which I now realise has been used on this bike by some PO) is 24mm. I went out and bought a new 32mm one - hope it will still be needed when all this shakes down.
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No worries Dave,
I'm sure Mike and the others will offer further assistance so you can get to the bottom of the problem.
I'll keep an eye out to see how it goes. Anything else just ask
Cheers
Tim
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Does this help:
www.nirvana-motorcycles.com/Honda CB550K3 Rear Wheel and Brake Parts List.pdf (http://www.nirvana-motorcycles.com/Honda CB550K3 Rear Wheel and Brake Parts List.pdf)
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'fraid not. I bought that List at Stafford the other weekend and although the diagrams are useful to show where the bits go, it doesn't give any dimensions.
I think the only way to go is 'hands on' and that's where I'm relying on you guys who have unbutchered K3's to come up with the measurements. I know it's a pain but I really do appreciate the support.
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here you go mate hope this helps
swingarm dimensions...inside 240mm same as timbo spacer 32mm
photos help.. i hope ;) i measured from back of sprocket to the first lip 110mm 130 to outsidelip
first lip i have tried to show you what i am talking about
(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t6/mike070868/PICT00642.jpg)
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Well that clinches it ! My hub dimensions are exactly same as yours so it looks like the swingarm's the problem - mine being 5mm narrower than yours. Having said that, if I've got the wrong swingarm it might not just be the overall width that's wrong but the offset too. So I'm on the lookput for a swingarm with 240mm across the inside faces. Anyone out there got one for sale ?
I've had a gut feel that this is the trouble spot all along and made a bid for the one captaindonut sold on Ebay last weekend but missed out 'cause I wasn't at my PC when it closed.
Pity about mine, with 235mm across the fork ends - it's all powder coated and shiny so will be looking for a good home.
So grateful to all who've contributed to the debate and especial thanks to Steve for his input.
Hope I can pass on some of the stuff I've learned in the same way. Brilliant !!
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There is a small possibility that the one you have has been bolted up with a spacer missing at some point and caused it to deform, worth checking against another to get a useful comparison. If you are near a shop with a frame jig it may be worth an enquiry as to correcting it if that's the case.
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I like the sound of that because, if that were the case and I could get the swingarm tweaked back to it's original form, the whole gubbins, spacers an' all, would glide home between the fork ends. That would save me the hassle of locating a new swingarm, but I still get the feeling that the wheel is offset to the offside. Doesn't this suggest that I might still have the wrong swingarm ?
There's a 'neglected by previous owner' one on Ebay at present that seems to have the right dimensions, so I think I'll go down that route. At least it'll serve as a comparison, as you suggest. You see, not knowing anyone in these parts (Stockport) with a bog-standard 550K3 leaves me with little alternative than to lay out a few bob if only to solve the conundrum which is --- have I or have I not got a K3 swingarm ?
Just hope this is one of the major obstacles on the rebuild. Any more like this and I can kiss riding The Snake this summer goodbye !
Thanks for the info.
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Question:-
Does the swingarm have closed ends so you have to remove the spindle to get the wheel out or does it have removeable "stoppers" so you can pull the wheel with everything atached
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but I still get the feeling that the wheel is offset to the offside. Doesn't this suggest that I might still have the wrong swingarm ?
You posted in your first post that the wheels had been rebuilt. It's possible that the rear could have been laced incorrectly. I have heard of instances of this occurring even with professional wheel builders. I would check this first before committing to another swing arm.
You should be able to spread the fork ends by another 5 mm.
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No, it has the open fork ends with removal adjuster 'stops'.
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That rules out it being an "F" swingarm then, Souonds like it might be bent to me
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For a basic alignment check you can mount the wheel and sprocket into the frame and put a chain on without the chain gaurd, this should give you at least a first level sighting to assess basic wheel alignment to the frame.
Oh and cross check it to the front wheel as well.
If you have to "reshape it" yourself then a trolly jack between the ends should persuade it but you'd have to satisfy yourself of no kinking or structural damage afterwards. As far as I understand it this is not a heat treatable material so should be able to take a small correction with no problems ocurring and the overall structure when all bolted up is a fairly stable and failsafe one so sensible inspection when back in use would give you peace of mind.
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Thanks for all the input, guys.
I'll have a look at the spoke lacing tomorrow. So you're saying it could account for the perceived offset if it's wrong ? The outfit that did the wheels are more at home with British classics than Jap ones, so who knows !
Right, so it's not an 'F' - that's reassuring.
Finally, I like the suggestion that it'll tweak or spring by 5mm or so. I can actually move it by hand a bit but of course it springs back.
I've got a hefty bottle jack and will set that up to give it some 'persuasion'.
I like the chain idea to check the alignment, also the wheel check but as yet, the motor's not in the frame, so the chain's a non-starter but as soon as I get the back wheel in I'll set up a long straightedge.
Many thanks once again. Usual disclaimers accepted.
Oh, talking of disclaimers, can I mention great service I've had recently from Westfield Fasteners for stainless bolts and from UK Bearings for small quantities of shims in various thicknesses. No connections and usual disclaimers !
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Add them to the "REcommended Sources" board - make sure you add links and contact details.
Steve
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Wheel offset I read somewhere (could be on here, not sure) but the advice when respoking etc was to measure and record offset of original prior to strip-down and the builder should be able to lace to match this spec.
An easy way to get this is to lay the bare wheel on a flat surface and measure surfcae to rim gap for both sides of unit (i.e. flip it over) and compare to known good example.
looks like you've got enough to work through anyway.
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Yep. Bearing in mind I only registered on the site last weekend, I've had so much genuinely good advice that I think I can now see the way forward on my 550 rebuild.
I put a bottle jack between the swingarm legs last night and tweeked it to 255mm - 15mm over the required 240. I suppose it'll spring back somewhat when I take the jack away. I'll post the result.
I'd like to show some pics but my attempts so far have been dire. Lost all the post I'd typed last night so went to bed at 1am feeling like I was a failure. Trouble is, I was born 20 years too soon for this lark and am struggling to keep up !
Anyway, thanks again, guys. You're stars !
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Trouble is, I was born 20 years too soon for this lark and am struggling to keep up !
You'll get there quicker than you think.
I bought my first pc at the age of 66 after a quadruple heart bypass (quite a few years ago), it's a steep learning curve but manageable and the start of another age. ;D