Post by: Multiman on December 08, 2022, 02:09:54 PM
Initial problem was petrol coming from overflow pipes which stopped after being left overnight (pet cock off obvs).
Once hot, it died a couple times at junctions and was "jerky" at low revs.
I think sitting for a couple months hasn't done the carbs any good so intend to do a strip and rebuild.
So where's best to get carb rebuild kits? DSS, Wemoto or elsewhere?
What's Nurse Julie's eBay shop called?
On closer inspection of the carb float bowls are held on with self tappers. Joy.
I have read that folk use helicoils to fix, but was wondering if anyone had used Time Serts from Wurth and if so how did it go.
I've watched a few videos rebuilding and read several threads on here but will no doubt come back with lots of questions.
Many thanks in advance.
Best
Tim
Post by: Deano400 on December 08, 2022, 02:21:26 PM
https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/julies9731/
Post by: Multiman on December 08, 2022, 03:11:56 PM
Post by: Bryanj on December 08, 2022, 03:16:00 PM
Ultrasonic cleaner is best but may be cheaper to find somebody to do it for you rather than buy one.
Not enough metal for timeserts and helicoiling 16 of those will be a pain, get new screws from Julie as well.
I have got some bits left from a 400 set, i think the bodies are ok and you can have them cheap.
Post by: Multiman on December 08, 2022, 03:31:05 PM
I'll order the bits from Julie as suggested.
Thanks for the carb body offer, I'll pm.
Post by: Laverdaroo on December 08, 2022, 06:04:12 PM
Offers there if it helps.
Post by: Multiman on December 08, 2022, 06:27:31 PM
I need to get the things off and apart which given my job list I have been given may take some time.
But once there I'll get back to you.
Cheers
Tim
Post by: Sesman on December 08, 2022, 07:31:33 PM
Oh, and look out for the spiders in the pilot jets😀
Post by: Multiman on December 08, 2022, 08:18:56 PM
I'm sure once I've got them off and apart the drillings will become clearer, but what is the Keihin carb model number to see if I can find any more info online like a schematic.
Many thanks
Tim
Post by: Sesman on December 08, 2022, 08:33:24 PM
Post by: Sesman on December 08, 2022, 08:34:18 PM
Post by: Multiman on December 08, 2022, 08:36:30 PM
I'm sure it will all become obvious.
Cheers
Tim
Post by: Sesman on December 08, 2022, 08:41:23 PM
Post by: Multiman on December 08, 2022, 08:56:00 PM
I've spotted 054A on the flange which pulls up various results on the web so I guess thats the model number.
(Don't look at the self tapper, it will make you feel queasy)
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on December 08, 2022, 08:57:39 PM
Post by: Nurse Julie on December 08, 2022, 09:19:06 PM
Post by: Multiman on December 08, 2022, 10:35:56 PM
Post by: Multiman on December 12, 2022, 10:36:20 AM
Laverdaroo drove over in the snow yesterday and helped me remove my carbs, so much easier with two sets of hands and someone who's done it before.
Not content with that act of generosity, he then set off back home to strip, clean and fettle them all.
Cost to me - some coffee and home made biscuits.
Cheers Roo, you've restored my faith in humanity.
Anyway there are a couple of bits he's told me to try and source, so I thought I'd try here are there aren't available separately or from the usual sources.
4x float bowl drain bolts
Not sure of the correct name for this but 1 x main throttle return spring? Mines over length.
If anyone has either of these they are willing to part with please let me know and how much they'd like for them.
Many thanks
Best
Tim
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on December 12, 2022, 10:40:38 AM
Post by: Laverdaroo on December 12, 2022, 06:35:07 PM
The throttle return spring is too long and catching meaning the slides don’t fully open. Mr Silver had them but it’s the drain screws for the bowls are the main concern.
Had to kill one getting it out with heat and some Anglo Saxon, the other was loctite’d in (not sure if that’s a word) and has zero slot on it to remove it. More vocab, heat and mole grips retrieved it but hammered it in the process so a full set required.
Half the internals are new, half aren’t, worn needles into new tubes
Well on the way to being sorted but had 5 hrs at em already……… loving it
A good Sunday afternoon with the radio on was had though
Nice to fiddle with something different for a change
Oh,and a plastic fuel line with a 4mm OD……………….bin!
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221212/08f25a409daacb71c2c03e956e5c326a.jpg)Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Laverdaroo on December 12, 2022, 06:35:50 PM
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Post by: Laverdaroo on December 12, 2022, 06:41:08 PM
Clagsville!
Check out the screws holding the bowls on…………proper
Possibly why the bowls were help on and sealed with brown window mastic. Genius
The bike’ s lovely and after fettling has commenced, she’ll run lovely too
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Post by: Laverdaroo on December 12, 2022, 06:41:50 PM
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Post by: Oddjob on December 12, 2022, 07:37:22 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on December 12, 2022, 08:37:39 PM
I figure although aftermarket, they might neutalise the issues I may have with these 'bitsa' internals. I mean, the needles are a given but have no info on age, use, why only two sets were partly fitted and sp on,.........I might as well! Baseline settings and all that.
Tomorow evening alread palnned out then ;D
Post by: Laverdaroo on December 12, 2022, 08:39:17 PM
The two grubbier ones were in the drawer where I’d left the bag open
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Post by: Matt_Harrington on December 13, 2022, 11:41:55 AM
Post by: Laverdaroo on December 13, 2022, 12:32:42 PM
Hope you’re good buddy?
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Post by: Terry Harlock on December 13, 2022, 12:36:44 PM
I read your post, so had a look through for the float bowl drain screws, found a set on eBay, checked in with the seller as advertised as for the CB500 etc, he has messaged back confirming they are the correct ones for your carbs also, I will put the item number below, just put it in the eBay search bar and will bring them up. Not the cheapest but an option if you don't find elsewhere.
Regards
Terry
125142692954
Post by: Multiman on December 13, 2022, 01:29:12 PM
thanks for spotting that for me. I hadn't realised the screws were common to those bikes. Every day is a school day.
I had given up on a UK source and had found some from CB-four.de which were pretty good value until the DHL costs were added on.
Anyway as needs must and Roo is champing at the bit I ordered the German ones.
Works out at about the same cost.
Cheers
Tim
Post by: Oddjob on December 13, 2022, 03:34:13 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on December 13, 2022, 04:35:33 PM
Roo, you can come and finish my Alfa if you are that bored! (only joking!!)
What Alfa have you got Matt ?
Back in the late 1960s I owned a Alfa Giulia 1600 Sprint GT I had it painted from white to metallic gold when I had some very rotten panels replaced. Beautiful car fully independent suspension, discs all round 5 sp box twin carbs - so much for a 1964 model. My mate had the later similar bodied 1750 GTV I wished I had the dosh back then for the 1750. I loved the later 2000 GTV as well.
Sadly my pics were lost in the fire.
Sorry about the topic drift.
Post by: Laverdaroo on December 13, 2022, 07:35:36 PM
DS had the throttle return spring? They didn't last time I checked, did you get the last one?
I looked last night and there was no stock Ken, I did find a second hand one in the states but for an eye watering $56!!!............eeeerrrrrrrrr, nope ;D
Ill give my pal Jay a shout after crimbo see If he can send me a reasonable one over out of the yard.
Incidently I chased that key and it was delivered but due tio something or other the farm has no comms at the minute and I dont have messenger so waiting for the net to resume over there and I'll bell him mate, I was expecting my box too so expectant!
I'll let you know what transpires.
Post by: Deano400 on December 13, 2022, 09:23:00 PM
[attach=1]
Post by: Deano400 on December 13, 2022, 09:24:04 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on December 13, 2022, 10:48:05 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on December 13, 2022, 11:20:46 PM
Post by: Oddjob on December 14, 2022, 01:58:44 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on December 14, 2022, 10:26:40 AM
There are two shown on the above site worth a message to (Steve?) to the site he is not expernsive zoom in on picture F140 RHS - you do not have to buy everything shown.
Post by: Matt_Harrington on December 14, 2022, 11:44:57 AM
After seeing it, I’d love to Matt but it’s shot of a commute
Hope you’re good buddy?
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All good - just too cold in the workshops......Brrrr
Post by: Multiman on December 14, 2022, 11:58:43 AM
I've messaged 400 4 bits and will what he says.
Cheers
Tim
Post by: Multiman on December 14, 2022, 12:03:23 PM
Post by: Multiman on December 14, 2022, 12:28:22 PM
Onwards and upwards
Post by: Matt_Harrington on December 18, 2022, 05:18:35 PM
Roo, you can come and finish my Alfa if you are that bored! (only joking!!)
What Alfa have you got Matt ?
Back in the late 1960s I owned a Alfa Giulia 1600 Sprint GT I had it painted from white to metallic gold when I had some very rotten panels replaced. Beautiful car fully independent suspension, discs all round 5 sp box twin carbs - so much for a 1964 model. My mate had the later similar bodied 1750 GTV I wished I had the dosh back then for the 1750. I loved the later 2000 GTV as well.
Sadly my pics were lost in the fire.
Sorry about the topic drift.
Just back from a very cold and wet Exmoor.....
Ted, it's 1972 Giulia GVT2000 - painted Ducati Red....
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on December 18, 2022, 07:28:36 PM
Post by: Multiman on December 31, 2022, 01:01:58 PM
Here's wishing you all a very happy New Year.
Laverdaroo has done a spectacular job on refurbing my carbs and so it's on to refitting. Thanks again Roo!
I had already bought some new throttle cables from Wemoto and fitted them beforehand.
Unfortunately when I split the right hand switch gear to do the job, I discovered a red and yellow wire in mid air.
After checking the wiring diagram, I disassembled the lower starter motor switch further and soldered the red and yellow back onto the small contact mounted on the tiny bit of U shaped insulation board.
Put every thing back together (oh to be an octopus) and whilst the starter works it has no "feel" and I'm worried might vibrate into contact whilst the engine is running.
So to cut a very long story short I've lost the spring that must live in there behind the starter button.
I've spent and hour on my hands and knees but can't find it, if it ever existed.
Two questions,
1. anyone got a spare starter button spring, or got dimensions of one?
2. Could someone describe how the parts go together as there is no exploded diagram I can find in manual or parts book and I'd like to be sure.
Many thanks
Cheers
Tim
Post by: Bryanj on December 31, 2022, 01:15:16 PM
500 spring part number is 35318259000
Post by: Multiman on December 31, 2022, 01:28:58 PM
I shall take a look, thanks.
Tim
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on December 31, 2022, 01:31:50 PM
Cheers Ted
Post by: Multiman on December 31, 2022, 01:47:19 PM
I'll pm you
Best
Tim
Post by: Multiman on January 05, 2023, 01:04:15 PM
This so useful as it shows all the original cable/insulation layout which will enable me to fix mine and get it to go back together properly.
Cheers Ted, a legend.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on January 05, 2023, 01:42:25 PM
Teds switch assembly has arrived and the interior is completely unmolested.
This so useful as it shows all the original cable/insulation layout which will enable me to fix mine and get it to go back together properly.
Cheers Ted, a legend.
The switch came with a bunch of parts when I bought my spare carbs & engine from a member here "Pops400" he was going to rebuild his fathers old 400 but the frame was badly damaged, the bike was sold off for spares shortly after his father & brother had died. He is a really nice bloke who had a small lock-up unit near his home where he stored his main passion - 1950/60s American Cars.
Post by: Multiman on April 02, 2023, 12:07:25 PM
Bought my 400/4 last may whilst I was learning to ride.
Got 2 mates to ride who gave it the thumbs up and it sounded and ran sweet.
Didn't take my A lic till November but passed at the tender age of 65.
Took the bike out for a run and it was awful.
Carbs flooded and the bike was jerky and stalled at junctions.
Roo came and helped me whip the carbs off, took them away to strip, clean and generally fettle. What a gent.
Got the carbs back a refitted.
To cut a long story short it was still not running well, flooded on fuel on, revs hanging etc etc
I started fettling other aspects of the bike and trying other obvious things that might affect the bad running.
Eventually I had the carbs off again and found discrepancies with the float bowl needle valve seats.
Replacing them cured the flooding.
But the rev hanging still persisted.
So carbs off again and a full strip.
More discrepancies in the main jet and emulsion tubes, so sourced some old brass and fitted.
I've made a short video which documents the main issues
Let em know what you think
Cheers
Tim
https://vimeo.com/813843011
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on April 02, 2023, 12:22:31 PM
I might just have been lucky with my 400 carbs - only time they have ever leaked is when I ran out of fuel on a journey - I came to a stop - switched on the reserve and petrol poured out of one carb in particular - I just shook the bike from side to side & it stopped pretty much instantly. I suspect the float /valve had stuck down due to the acute angle.
Post by: Oddjob on April 02, 2023, 03:53:38 PM
Not 100% sure you got the ignition timing right, I seem to recall someone saying they need to be timed at full advance as they don't have an advance unit? Could be wrong, never fitted an electronic setup to a SOHC before. Someone will advise if I'm wrong.
Some stuff I spotted. Emulsion tube was drilled off centre, if that's the state of the others I'd have changed them all not just No3. Clearly someone has replaced the entire set of brass and it's poor quality brass at that. Remove the throttle cables and see if the hanging carries on, blip the throttle with the butterfly.
Post by: Matt_Harrington on April 02, 2023, 05:28:28 PM
Post by: Nurse Julie on April 02, 2023, 06:39:47 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on April 02, 2023, 07:00:48 PM
I replaced mine together with the floats for no good reason when I refurbished the carbs in 2020.
Out of interest on your electronic ignition can you check the timing for 1-4 & 2-3 as I see no sensors that are adjustable for each pair of cylinders?
Post by: Multiman on April 03, 2023, 02:16:48 PM
I should be able to make a quick video as I work in TV for a living.
My defence for the slightly weird captions etc is I haven't done any actual editing in decades, I mainly look after the colour correction side of things. My offspring say I do the colouring in.
I just had a quick go on iMovie as thats what I've got and it is a crap bit of software.
I'm going to teach myself another program called Resolve.
Once I've got my head round that, look out for the Directors Cut, it will be a belter.
I made a selection of the emulsion tubes that all looked the same and had same position shoulders etc when checked with a vernier.
Only one had the drilling off centre and it was really easy to spot if a shocking bit of QC.
The electronic ignition has no built in advance curve like some other more impressive systems eg Tri Spark but the bike still has the centrifugal mechanical unit advancing the aluminium rotor that contains the magnets that trigger the signal. I checked it was advancing with the strobe and all good.
There is no separate adjustment for 1-4 vs 2-3 on the EI system, they are simply built with the transducers at 180° to each other. Not sure if this is a disadvantage?
Julie I have wanted to kick the thing more than once but I always do my ranting off camera. Think Basil Faulty birching his car...
Is it going well now?
So off I went in the sunshine, pottered round the estate to the main road, got onto a straight and applied considerable beanage.
Lush.
However she didn't want to slow down, throttle was jammed open sort of.
By the top of the hill it was sorted so maybe just settling in?
Then next straight the same.
Traffic lights fumbling with crazy reving thing between my legs and driver up my arse.
Not happy.
To cut a long story short, I managed to get the revs to drop and slowly made it home whilst trying to think of what I hadn't done right?
Throttle cable anchor not tightened perhaps, didn't feel like fueling but some carb mechanical thing.
Took the tank off at home.
Throttle cables all good.
Then it became obvious.
Some dickhead hadn't tightened the throttle stop pin which was free to rotate and jam the butterfly partially open. Randomly.
At least it was an easy, if embarrassing, fix.
Note to self.
Never think its sorted till you do a road test, blipping the throttle in the garage hadn't shown it.
Then I went a did a very enjoyable 35miles and came back grinning like a Cheshire Cat.
Everything works and there will obviously be a few tweaks, but the engine is running really well.
Roo is threatening to come over sometime and I'll get him to take it out for a second opinion.
Ted thanks for the offer of emulsion tubes, but as the engine is going well I think you should hang on to them. Cheers mate.
Its been said more than once own here that the old brass works better and I think I proved this too myself.
But it raises the question of what is right and what is wrong.
How do you know if you buy a carb service kit that the parts are right?
Are there and drawings available for the parts? I guess not, but it would be really useful to have some basic dimensions of components to be able to check.
Thoughts?
Post by: K2-K6 on April 03, 2023, 02:45:14 PM
"There is no separate adjustment for 1-4 vs 2-3 on the EI system, they are simply built with the transducers at 180° to each other. Not sure if this is a disadvantage?"
No disadvantage at all, in my view. The original points are separately adjustable to remove production tolerance in their own manufacturing process, so to take care of any potential error they built in. Also, their rubbing block/heel wear that may also change this aspect.
Electronic triggered by the same singular spindle, as long as it's accurately assembled in regard to pickup point, shouldn't have variance or reason/need to adjust.
Looks fine in video clip.
Post by: Multiman on April 03, 2023, 02:59:50 PM
Thanks for confirming.
Post by: Oddjob on April 03, 2023, 03:05:55 PM
Post by: Multiman on April 03, 2023, 03:12:09 PM
However I found that the led didn't switch on in a clearly defined way, it sort of increased in brightness over a few degrees.
Hence checking with a strobe at idle which I feel gave a more definite result.
Post by: Oddjob on April 03, 2023, 03:18:01 PM
Post by: K2-K6 on April 05, 2023, 09:41:20 AM
"I should be able to make a quick video as I work in TV for a living.
My defence for the slightly weird captions etc is I haven't done any actual editing in decades, I mainly look after the colour correction side of things. My offspring say I do the colouring in.
I just had a quick go on iMovie as thats what I've got and it is a crap bit of software.
I'm going to teach myself another program called Resolve.
Once I've got my head round that, look out for the Directors Cut, it will be a belter."
I worked extensively in colour reproduction with still image/photography, not necessarily a conversation for parties etc ;D but I found it fascinating nevertheless.
Amusing just how much variance in many broadcast currently as they swap from camera to camera and specifically drone coverage with the colour rendition flip flopping all over the place.
Good to see the Honda clip well presented.
Post by: Multiman on April 05, 2023, 01:36:46 PM
The most fun is natural history, they use every possible available camera/format, preferably never used before, film across 2/3 years, across multiple countries and continents all lit by god and then they want to look like one continuous sequence of shots.
Fast, cheap or good. Choose any two....
Post by: taysidedragon on April 05, 2023, 03:22:32 PM
Post by: Multiman on April 05, 2023, 05:01:44 PM
Well just one anecdote.
Its worse in the cinema world as projectionists don't exist anymore.
The digital projectors just require a file of the correct type and the operators literally can either download a file or plug in a memory stick and hit play.
As long as it's the right movie for the schedule and there's picture and sound roughly in sync they are happy.
I worked on a Shaun the Sheep film and we spent hours checking everything was correct as "film" colour space is different to TV so it was a little new to us.
We did most of the work inn Bristol on our kit then the final colour tweak on a big screen in London with producer, director and director photography in attendance.
All good, what could possibly go wrong.
Delivery file made and there was a screening at a local cinema in Bristol for all the crew and families.
150 people at the viewing and speeches etc and then we all settle down to watch.
The pictures bore very little resemblance to the colours we have given them over many many hours, the projector was completely screwed.
The DOP and I just looked at each other and held our heads.
Tra la.
Hence the imortal buck passing phrase "It was alright leaving me"
In short at the cinema you might get the right "look" but might well not, but who would know.