Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB500/550 => Topic started by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on August 26, 2023, 06:36:37 PM
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When I replaced the handlebars on my 500K1 I went for the concealed switch wiring look, this has meant replacing my switch gear to suit to avoid a dogs dinner look.
I am some way off connecting up the wiring, the right side switch gear has 7 wires as against 6 in the old switch so there will be a spare I guess.
The left side switch is for a 500 K2 or 400 so it has a Pass switch included but here is the conundrum my new switch has 8 wires as against 11 wires on the old unit! So I have 3 fewer wires but an added function in the Pass switch.
So do I need a different switch or is it possible to make it fit - as an added complication the colours are mostly different?
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A UK K1 is supposed to have the pass switch Ted. It's the USA version that doesn't.
The extra wires are normally for the US market, buzzer wires etc.
Sounds like you have the same switchgear as the 550, high/low on the switch?
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Orange with white stripe and blue with white stripe would be front funning lights and not used, would need to know all the colours to guess the other one not there
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A UK K1 is supposed to have the pass switch Ted. It's the USA version that doesn't.
The extra wires are normally for the US market, buzzer wires etc.
Sounds like you have the same switchgear as the 550, high/low on the switch?
My switch has L/R indicator, Horn/Pass switch & Hi/Low beam switch. My bike had a US rear number plate that begs the question does it have a US loom or are they the same?
I was minded to replace the loom but replaced the connector blocks instead, sellers seem to show the wiring loom for a Ki & K2 as the same. UK 500K1 part number 32100-323-040
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Looms are the same Ted, switches are different, front blinkers and no front sidelight
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Orange with white stripe and blue with white stripe would be front funning lights and not used, would need to know all the colours to guess the other one not there
Old switch has Orange/White stripe & Blue/White stripe some colours are hard to guess due to fading.
I was just worried if they changed the way the switches work between K1 & K2 versions. Looks like I will have to do some testing with my AVO meter.
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Looms are the same Ted, switches are different, front blinkers and no front sidelight
Good to hear the looms are the same as the loom was in pretty good condition generally, just had to re-tape some parts & fit new connector blocks.
The extra wire unaccounted for could be a different horn wiring arrangement.
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Early horns had 1 wire that grounded to bars like starter button, later ones had2 wires and sent power to the horn, you need to know which sort as the wiring at the horn is different
Early has black power then wire to switch
Later has wire from switch and a loop to ground
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It can be confusing with differences between US UK Europe specs, the type with hi/lo on left is more like 550 and means the rh has to have off/park/headlamp positions. There will be differences from the wiring diagram i sent you, I find its easier to draw out the seperate circuits to make it easier.
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It can be confusing with differences between US UK Europe specs, the type with hi/lo on left is more like 550 and means the rh has to have off/park/headlamp positions. There will be differences from the wiring diagram i sent you, I find its easier to draw out the separate circuits to make it easier.
I have the right side handlebar switch with the three positions off/P/H looks similar to my 400.
Oddly enough I have been drawing diagrams to show the switch connections as you have suggested, I printed off the B&W diagram you sent me as an aid.
I suspect some of my problems are with faded wiring colours making light blue & grey look similar.
I've done an XL sheet showing all the wires that go into the headlamp from the main loom denoting male or female connectors and what I think the colours are.
On my 400 I did a similar exercise to match up the connections. I would sooner spend time trying it out on paper than burning out a new switch or short a loom.
Not helped by my aftermarket switches having some different colours to boot. I need to re-learn my AVO meter skills on U-tube. 8) 8) 8)
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Have you identified your model bike? That would lead you to the appropiate wiring diagram.
If you suspect you're dealing with an aftermarket switch unit, this may help: https://honda4parts.nl/product_info.php?products_id=3434&language=en&ceid=fcbfa29501f44034d4f2dd06ff72ad01
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My switch does not have the buzzer wire, only difference in the remaining wire colours is I have Black/Yellow instead of Brown/Red my other 7 wires are identical.
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Still don't know what 'area code' your model is, but anyway, don't be fooled by wires and connectors which are not connected. You'll find them on any model. For instance my model has the wires lightblue white and orangewhite in the headlamp bucket for the -A models, but they were not connected on models for Europe. If you cut them, you have two spare wires ending in a perfect Y connector which can be used for something else.
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Just bought 3 switches, 2 dismantled but almost complete, casings unbroken. Both off a 550f by the look of them. The other is a l/h 550k3 switch. Looks ok and complete. Will get all the casings ceramic coated and clean up all the contacts etc then sell them on. The k3 one is kinda rare these days. All genuine btw.
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As far as I know my 500 is mostly K1 a UK model but there was a USA rear fender fitted. Not unusual for a 50 yrvold bike.
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Comparing the engine- and framenumber of yours to those listed in the first few pages of the various parts lists will tell you what 'area code' yours is - or at least - was. That's always a good starting point to tell what is still original on your bike and what not.
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Wont work Delta, frame and engine were never mated to start, s Ted knows the whole thing was assembled from parts in my garage
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on the original honda switches they stick with the same colour for the same function. Black is a 12v + feed, so on your switch a black would go to horn switch which also includes pass switch, when horn is pushed it sends voltage via light green wire to horn, then horn is earthed via short wire to frame. If pass is pushed its the same black wire via switch then dark blue wire to headlamp. Orange and light blue are left (orange) and right (blue) indicators, these are fed by a grey wire from flasher relay via main loom. White is low beam dark blue is main. Not sure how the power gets to dip switch but either a black or poss a blue and brown as per 500. I make it 9 wires.
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Timely reminder Mick I have a list of the Honda wiring colours, very handy at times like this.
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out of interest i looked at an old honda switch of the correct type and most of the wires correspond to the ones I mentioned. There is a black/yellow that supplies current to the dip switch, on the later bikes remember they have the 3 fuse layout, so when the rh headlamp switch is on the power goes via fusebox to lh switch for low hi switch. On the 500 it has the one fuse so you will have to adapt the wiring a bit. one problem i have found is most of the manuals have the US type diagrams which are not the same as often the headlamp is on all the time so no on/off switch.
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35250-323-013 part number for a CB500 four UK.
[attachimg=1]
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Wire colours ;)
[attachimg=2]
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He hasn’t got that switch fitted, his is a 550 one, which if you’d bothered to read the thread you’d have known.
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He hasn’t got that switch fitted, his is a 550 one, which if you’d bothered to read the thread you’d have known.
The title of the thread is Left handlebar switch question and Ted has a 500 so, i put the picture on so he could see what type of Left handlebar switch was original fitted . o and i had read the thread :o
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Then in post 4 you should have read he has the Hi/Lo switch on his, which should have made you realise it's a 550 switch.
Plus I knew it had as I remember seeing them on his bars in his project thread, hence why I asked him in post 2 to confirm he still had the same one fitted.
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My thundercat had a hi/lo switch on the left side. Does that mean it is from a 550 :o I bought a 550 once that had CX500 switch gear fitted. If he put a picture on in the first place it would of been so much easier to ID it ;)
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https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/174181090102
Here is the link for the part I have OE number 35200-377-003. Not up to going in the garage atm due to feeling like the living dead so no photo but there is on the link.
Wires 8 in total are all male out of the switch as follows.
Male Black/Yellow trace
Male light Green -
Male light Grey - feed from flasher unit
Male Orange - feed to left indicators
Male Dark Blue - feed to right Indicator
Male Black - live
Male White - Low Beam
Male light Blue - High Beam
Pass function switch might be internal connection between Black to High Beam.
Remaining two wires Horn & switched feed from right side light switch ?
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Forgot your question, but here's anyway:
CMSNL says: 35200-377-003 fits models
CB400F AUSTRALIA
CB400F ENGLAND
CB400F EUROPEAN DIRECT SALES
CB400F FRANCE
CB400F GENERAL EXPORT KPH
CB400F GENERAL EXPORT MPH
CB400F GERMANY
CB400F SWEDEN
CB400F2 ENGLAND
CB400F2 EUROPEAN DIRECT SALES
CB400F2 FRANCE
CB400F2 GERMANY
CB400F2 SWEDEN
So you could consult wiring diagrams of those models.
Know that: light green usually is horn
light blue usually is RH indicators
what you call dark blue, I take for blue which is high beam
Black/Yellow trace I forgot but was recently discussed in this forum.
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Yes a clash of blues indicator more likely light blue with dark blue for main beam.
Pretty sure it can be made to fit.
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Ted, light green would go to horn and check with avo if it connects to black when button pushed, i suspect the black with yellow tracer is the power feed to the dip switch and on your bike will connect direct to the wire from the H connection on rh switch.
On a 3 fuse later system it would connect to the loom and fuse box
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bryan is correct, the black + feeds the horn/flasher, dark blue is high beam and light green to horn. On the 400 and 550 the black with yellow tracer comes from main fusebox to supply dip switch
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Forgot to add to check connections at horn as that switch needs a ground loop not a black +ve feed so if a black dissapears into loom you need to disconnect it and put a wire to earth, sorry cant remember what i built it with
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No worries Bryan I had to alter the horn wiring on my 400.
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Just when I thought the wiring was sorted a strange back circuit. Everything else works as it should.
I was checking the number plate illumination with the ignition key in the lighting park position fully clockwise.
For some reason I put the bar switch to side lights position -the ignition / neutral switch lights illuminated!
Oops another gremlin to sort.
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Mix up between brown and brown/white I'd imagine
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Mix up between brown and brown/white I'd imagine
Only thing that has changed since I first completed the wiring is I have connected the coils - horn.I'll check the brown & brown/white wiring as you have flagged it up Ken.
I will remove the headlight and have a look at the Spaghetti - I need to make a proper record of my wiring as the odd wires are not as per the wiring diagram colours due to having the wrong switches.
If push comes to shove I will disconnect the parking light as I have never used them on a bike or a car for decades.
Obviously I would prefer them to work so that option is the least desirable.
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Now that you've mentioned 'horn'. Realise the horn was wired differently for different markets. Consult the appropiate wiring diagram.
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Now that you've mentioned 'horn'. Realise the horn was wired differently for different markets. Consult the appropiate wiring diagram.
I have wired my Horn so one side goes to Earth the other side is connected to faded wire looks like pale green-blue at the point in the loom that has the coil feed wires - same colour comes out of the main loom at the headlamp end where it connects to the horn push button of a similar colour.
Horn works as it should - everything works fine until I move the right hand bar switch from 0 position to either P or H then with the key in the far right position to leave on the parking lights. With switch at O everything is normal - then if I move the right bar switch to P or H then the ignition comes on.
I suspect that the fault lies in the power feed to the lights somehow powering the ignition.
I have eliminated the ignition switch being faulty as I tried a new spare. I am currently checking & documenting all the wires in the headlamp bowl.
As I do not have the correct bar switches I do have a couple of wires that are connected against the colours to make everything work.
I suspect these are the route cause of my back feed.
I have made a bridge to connect the following wrong colours:-
Left bar switch (Male Bullet) Black/Yellow Trace to Right bar switch (Male Bullet) Black/Red trace.
Lastly this is probably the problem area.
Main loom at Headlamp end has a Black Double female connector block (live via ign switch).
This 4 way block has following connections - all male bullet connectors.
Black wire to the Left Bar switch.
Black/grey trace to right bar switch.
Black/Blue trace to right bar switch.
Kojaycat sell an A3 laminated coloured wiring diagram for the 500 - I have asked them if it is the correct for a 500 K1 - waiting for a reply.
My switches are for the CB400 /500 K2 / 550 F1-F2 purchased in error tbh but think I can make them work.
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ONLY black wires should be connected to black loom wires, nothing else, no black with any other trace colours.
Are you slightly colour blind Ted as I can't see any black/grey or black/blue wires in the wiring diagram for the 550. There's a black/yellow and a black/red in the headlight wiring and a brown/blue but not the colours you've listed. Disconnect them and see if the problems stops.
And yes I know yours is a 500 but the switchgear isn't.
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From what I can make out Ted, the park position makes the brown wire live. It should only feed the rear light by rights, if you've connected any brown/white wires into that bullet connector then the would make all the brown/white wires live when the switch was in park. Any position on the headlight switch (except off) on the right hand switchgear would make contact with that wire so any wire connecting to that would also become live, hence why the whole system starts to power up.
Black/Yellow is the feed for the lights on the 550, it's gets it's power from the 3 fuse box via the headlight fuse, that's powered by the black/red wire, it's wired into the starter button, so that when the button is pressed the lights go out to avoid drain on the battery when the starter is spinning. Not a feature the 500 had, so you may find the lights also going out when the starter fires up. You could just wire the black/yellow into the black feed and that would also work. In this case that's ok as it's a compromise on getting 550 switches to work with 500 wiring.
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As I have aged some colours are harder to tell apart especially with faded wiring.
I have spent the morning recording my wire colours and where I have not matched colours - I'm done in for today but I did remove one wire & it cured the ignition light illuminating via the P & H but lost the front side light working.
I'm done in for today so tomorrow with a clear head looking at what Ken & Bryan have flagged up the solution is getting closer.
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If you connect the sidelight into the brown/white circuit Ted you should get that back but only when the normal lights are on. The front sidelight won't work in park.
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remember my post earlier in this thread, the sidelight and rear lamp are powered by the brown wire NOT the brown/white wire which powers the speedo/tach illumination. so when the handlebar switch is on P the brown wire is energised (from black wire I think) then travels back to the ignition switch TL1 terminal then bridges to TL2 which sends the lecky to the front sidelamp and rear lamp. when the park position on the ignition switch is engaged it connects the two tl terminals directly therefore lighting sidelamp/rear lamp without ignition being on. It took me ages to work it out on mine as it is not how you would expect it to work
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Timely reminder Mick - I just removed a single wire Black/Yellow trace wire from the right side bar switch that was connected to the solid Brown side lamp wire.
This has stopped the ignition powering up when key in parking light position. All I have lost now is the side lamps & instrument lights now not working when switch is in the P or H postion but head/dip fine. In park ignition switch position side lights work.
I have put a test lamp on the Black/Yellow trace wire this becomes live when the right bar switch is in position P or H. Looks as though I just need to connect this wire to the normal side lamp power feed wherever that is.
Kojaycat do not sell the right wiring diagram so I will look at the various ones I have to find the right connection point. So close once again.
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remember my post earlier in this thread, the sidelight and rear lamp are powered by the brown wire NOT the brown/white wire which powers the speedo/tach illumination. so when the handlebar switch is on P the brown wire is energised (from black wire I think) then travels back to the ignition switch TL1 terminal then bridges to TL2 which sends the lecky to the front sidelamp and rear lamp. when the park position on the ignition switch is engaged it connects the two tl terminals directly therefore lighting sidelamp/rear lamp without ignition being on. It took me ages to work it out on mine as it is not how you would expect it to work
This is true IF Ted was using the 500 switchgear but the 550 ones use different contacts and different coloured wires as a result Mick.
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I have just found a spare female slot in the four way Brown/White trace connector block in the headlamp.
Plugged in the wire mentioned above Black/Yellow trace into the Brown/White slot - side lamps work as do the parking lights with no idiot lights or ignition powering up.
Been here before but looks as if its now sorted. Only wires that are not colour matched inside the headlamp is the aforementioned Black/yellow trace from right bar switch then lastly the odd bridge as below.
I have made a bridge to connect the following wrong colours:-
Left bar switch (Male Bullet) Black/Yellow Trace to Right bar switch (Male Bullet) Black/Red trace.
RESULT !! Just need to coax everything back into the bowl without losing anything. ;D ;D ;D
I hate to fess up but I suspect that when I was fitting the headlamp back into place a couple of weeks ago a wire fell out & I put it in the wrong connector.