Post by: Johnwebley on November 24, 2022, 07:11:44 PM
I am have problems trying to get my 200 to run above 6K,
basically the air cleaners are unavailable,the originals were caked with dirt,although the bike ran OK,it was rich at high revs.
I tried to sort it by ripping out the card/fibre board ,replaced by foam,then the problems started,
seem to run ok below 6K,and small throttle opening,.
using standard needle,if I lift it one groove,it runs rich low down,
so I increased the MJ in various stages to 110,from 88,,but will not run at full throttle above 6k,or rev past 6k,
still seems lean,
any ideas?
I know it has a long inlet tract,how does this effect it?
I suspect it is the pulses,and pressure waves to help fill the cylinder,
Post by: K2-K6 on November 24, 2022, 09:22:16 PM
That shouldn't have any affect on jetting from standard though as it obviously comes equipped in such a way.
Puzzled why it seems like it needs more fuel though.
Confident of ignition advance operating fully ? It'll not rev without that.
Post by: Johnwebley on November 24, 2022, 10:06:48 PM
,seems ok,opens easily when twisted by hand
will check when the sun next shines
Post by: Oddjob on November 24, 2022, 10:19:45 PM
https://classic-bikes.de/en/honda-luftfilter-satz-17200-354-005-3
Might solve the problem but bloody hell that's expensive.
Post by: Johnwebley on November 25, 2022, 01:34:24 PM
Not exactly want you need to see John but.
https://classic-bikes.de/en/honda-luftfilter-satz-17200-354-005-3
Might solve the problem but bloody hell that's expensive.
Bloody hell,glad I amsitting!!!
looks like around £100 each plus VAT !!!!
Post by: Oddjob on November 25, 2022, 01:46:37 PM
Post by: Johnwebley on November 25, 2022, 02:04:34 PM
I wonder how many they sell nearly 50 years after original manufacture
Post by: K2-K6 on November 25, 2022, 02:34:53 PM
agreed
I wonder how many they sell nearly 50 years after original manufacture
You could try covering with stretchy fleece material John, just to assess what some level of resistance will give you. I've run this type of arrangement in really dusty conditions to cover the original filter material and prevent quick clogging (could be just pulled off and washed) which filtered pretty effectively.
Post by: Moorey on November 25, 2022, 03:27:28 PM
Have you seen this John https://www.hondatwins.net/threads/cb200-air-filter-refurb-query.1440/
Post by: Johnwebley on November 25, 2022, 04:51:29 PM
Have you seen this John https://www.hondatwins.net/threads/cb200-air-filter-refurb-query.1440/
yes,tried that,purchased several lots of air filter foam,used a hot glue gun to assemble it,oiled the foam,
not really worked,
hence the desperation
Post by: K2-K6 on November 25, 2022, 05:05:40 PM
Something like range rover 3.9 89/92 yrs is a non structured type of mostly paper that's only held in place by airbox structure and may be suitable to cut.
Or visiting local auto factors to see if you can find a suitable donor.
Post by: K2-K6 on November 25, 2022, 05:08:47 PM
[attachimg=1]
Don't think they're expensive either.
Post by: Johnwebley on November 25, 2022, 05:43:43 PM
Not exactly want you need to see John but.
https://classic-bikes.de/en/honda-luftfilter-satz-17200-354-005-3
Might solve the problem but bloody hell that's expensive.
OK,I have succumbed,
cost so far not to bad,
I expect to have to pay about £40 duty plus handling charge to DHL,
jeez,
Post by: Laverda Dave on November 25, 2022, 10:01:58 PM
Making them yourself will be a lot cheaper. You can get copies of CBG via the Mortons website.
Post by: Johnwebley on November 25, 2022, 10:12:09 PM
Thanks Dave,
I shall check that out ,
My 125 Yam uses two foam doughnuts over a centre intake in an airbox,
that works OK
Post by: Johnwebley on February 06, 2023, 07:29:16 PM
Ihave come to the conclusion ,it an ignition issue,
all my other bikes have electronic ignition,this still has damn points,one set and two lobes on the cam,rub at half engine speed.
set the gap at the lower end of the range,massive improvement,
need an electrical engineer to explain how the gap/dwell etc works with a twin plug coil.
Post by: K2-K6 on February 06, 2023, 08:06:15 PM
The "time" element is what the coils see as it's just the amount of time it takes to replenish that coil at that resistance, with the volts available.
Dwell is expressed in angle/degrees rotation of cam, setting the points gives a specific angle of geometry that the points are closed for.
Now it gets more interesting as when that angle is set, then when revs go up the angle remains the same but with time now shorter the faster you go. Meaning the coils fill less, because they only "see" time connected to supply.
Closing points gap makes dwell too long technically, but lengthens the time available to fill the coil, at the same rpm.
Good electronic system can just control the time only, and regardless of rpm. So coil saturation is constant from low to high.
If you close the points gap to minimum and set plugs also to absolute minimum spec gap, then it should have the best performing spark output for that system.
Post by: K2-K6 on February 06, 2023, 08:27:13 PM
If our systems use 5 Ohms resistance it requires a longer time to fill than a 3 Ohms coil. Putting a 3 Ohms coil into a points system may have advantages at constant high rpm (as the dwell time shortens it can still meet the fill requirements) but at constant low speed the coil is now reaching saturation and then some, causing too much draw and potentially overheating the coil.
So you're stuck with aggregated performance over the rpm range in reality, works OK usually though.
Full electronic in concisely controlling the "dwell" characteristics in fixed time only can make use of whatever their system's designer specifically incorporates.
As example;- a V8 with single coil and firing 4 times a revolution can use a 1.5 Ohms coil with attendant dwell characteristic provided by the electronic switching to help with fill and replenish cycle that are overall shorter to fit in with that firing demand.
Post by: Bryanj on February 06, 2023, 09:25:50 PM
Post by: Johnwebley on February 07, 2023, 10:17:19 AM
thank you gentlemen,
it is a new coil listed for the CB200,
using 25thou plug gap,
a great improvement on before,
Post by: Johnwebley on March 08, 2023, 10:09:17 AM
It can be seen also a different result by use of different coil primary resistance to change characteristics, usually to the detrimental though.
If our systems use 5 Ohms resistance it requires a longer time to fill than a 3 Ohms coil. Putting a 3 Ohms coil into a points system may have advantages at constant high rpm (as the dwell time shortens it can still meet the fill requirements) but at constant low speed the coil is now reaching saturation and then some, causing too much draw and potentially overheating the coil.
So you're stuck with aggregated performance over the rpm range in reality, works OK usually though.
Full electronic in concisely controlling the "dwell" characteristics in fixed time only can make use of whatever their system's designer specifically incorporates.
As example;- a V8 with single coil and firing 4 times a revolution can use a 1.5 Ohms coil with attendant dwell characteristic provided by the electronic switching to help with fill and replenish cycle that are overall shorter to fit in with that firing demand.
does anyone know the resistance of the original coil?
the one I have is 4.7ohm,
another is available at4.2,
the bike runs well up to just over 6k.. then cuts out,
could the points be bouncing?
these old fashions gubbins are not easy to sort
Post by: Sesman on March 08, 2023, 11:35:01 AM
Misfires can sometimes manifest themselves at higher rpm as the HT voltage rises causing arcing across failing insulation. Points bounce is of course also a potential problem.
Did you know our coils also have ‘capacitance’, buts that’s another story……
Post by: Oddjob on March 08, 2023, 02:03:25 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on March 08, 2023, 02:12:30 PM
I'm sure youre right though Phil, sounds it! ;) ;D
Post by: Sesman on March 08, 2023, 10:24:01 PM
Post by: Sesman on March 08, 2023, 10:57:03 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on March 08, 2023, 11:45:45 PM
Post by: SteveD CB500K0 on March 09, 2023, 06:56:53 AM
Engineering porn.
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Post by: K2-K6 on March 09, 2023, 08:26:33 AM
The spark form is of course affected by "atmospherics" within the combustion chamber, in so much as stratified charge density, plug gap and cylinder pressure alter the resistance across the plug gap, and subsequently the duration of the spark when running conditions shift. This area is really interesting but we're not allowed to discuss it on forum by Delta's determination ::) and limited view of the topic ;)
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on March 09, 2023, 09:01:41 AM
I thought I was dylysic, but didn’t read anything into it. Apologies but it’s the landlords, hic.
That Timothy Taylor has a lot to answer for.😁😁😁
Post by: Sesman on March 09, 2023, 09:15:47 AM
Post by: Sesman on March 09, 2023, 09:37:09 AM
I thought I was dylysic, but didn’t read anything into it. Apologies but it’s the landlords, hic.
That Timothy Taylor has a lot to answer for.😁😁😁
Indeed Ted. I’ve recovered now thankfully…..it was a rather heavy T Time session. Never, never post if you have had a few.🫣
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on March 09, 2023, 09:48:17 AM
Hi, K2/K6. Fourier series and the like some 30 years ago😳
That rings a very distant bell (53 years for me ) Fourier Analysis it's filed in my brain with Frobenious Method.
Post by: SteveD CB500K0 on March 09, 2023, 09:54:08 AM
Went straight to pn junctions.
The shared first year, while “boring” at the time, did teach us the basics of fluid dynamics, materials science etc.
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Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on March 09, 2023, 10:10:36 AM
Post by: Sesman on March 09, 2023, 11:26:53 AM
Post by: Sesman on March 09, 2023, 11:29:58 AM
Post by: Oddjob on March 09, 2023, 02:05:41 PM
Post by: SteveD CB500K0 on March 09, 2023, 03:19:43 PM
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Post by: Johnwebley on March 09, 2023, 03:27:48 PM
Back on topic, was the misfire, holding back problem solved?
not quite died yet,its been cold,so I have left it until it warms up.
BUT,thinking ,at 6,000 rpm itis generating 100 sparks per second,using the 4.7ohm coil ,
is that enough to make the coil refresh??
infact,at the red line of 9K,it should be having 150 bangs a second,.
I know it was hopeless with a wide contact gap,reducing it to 12thou certainly improved the general running,but not increased how high it revs.
does anyone know the spec of the original coil?
no details on either DSS or CMSNL,Wemoto give 4.7 for one,and 4.2 for another.
HELP
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on March 09, 2023, 04:27:13 PM
You have started much as I would have looking at air intake fueling & then sparking.
Are the coils on your CB 200 like my 400 with the leads as part of the coil.
My other thought making quite a few assumptions such as you have enough fuel flow into the carbs with the right jets etc - is what about the other end - could the exhuast system be blocked up?
Are you happy with the condensers as well as the coils ability to produce the sparks fast enough ?
Post by: Sesman on March 09, 2023, 08:25:46 PM
We don't know, he died of boredom about 14 posts ago ;D ;D ;D ;D
😁😁😁😁😁
Post by: Sesman on March 09, 2023, 08:29:20 PM
Post by: Johnwebley on March 10, 2023, 09:50:14 AM
Going back on topic what is your ownership history with this bike - have you ever had it run at say 8,500 rpm.
You have started much as I would have looking at air intake fueling & then sparking.
Are the coils on your CB 200 like my 400 with the leads as part of the coil.
My other thought making quite a few assumptions such as you have enough fuel flow into the carbs with the right jets etc - is what about the other end - could the exhuast system be blocked up?
Are you happy with the condensers as well as the coils ability to produce the sparks fast enough ?
when I first got it running,it ran up to the red line ok,
slight fluffing,but the air cleaners were original and caked with dirt.
it had a after market coil,smaller than standard,so only had a single mounting point,
since trying to put it back to standard,its had a coil from Wemoto,correct size,
new capacitor,original points,
it uses a single points,and Capacitor on a twin lobe cam
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on March 10, 2023, 10:33:56 AM
Sounds daft but first thing I would do is fit the old parts back on - if it returns to working the answer should be in the coil.
Assuming you have the same make & grade of spark plugs & caps. If you have fitted new plugs might be worth trying it with the old ones fitted.
Just me thinking out loud John sorry if it's obvious twaddle.
Post by: Sesman on March 10, 2023, 10:45:13 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on March 10, 2023, 10:48:33 AM
Took it back the next day - they had fitted the wrong plugs!
Post by: Johnwebley on March 10, 2023, 11:24:08 AM
John, does the bike misfire, or just ‘hold back’?
just dies,
I thought it might be to lean ,so used the choke,no difference,
new plug caps, 5k resister,new D8HS plugs
look clean,
as said ,runs sweetly up to 6k
Post by: K2-K6 on March 10, 2023, 11:52:34 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on March 10, 2023, 11:54:57 AM
Post by: Johnwebley on March 10, 2023, 01:07:39 PM
Advance mech check out ? Can you see it advancing with a strobe ?
it seems strong at 5k,as the advance comes in around 2.5k it should be OK,but might be worth trying,
also same with and without air filters, those have been replaced with extremely costly NOS
just had it running,started easily,blipped well,sounded good,
would a low battery affect it?
previously it started on the button,so not that low,
I had just topped the battery up now,and maybe I am imagining it ran better????
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on March 10, 2023, 02:09:20 PM
You seem to have eliminated everything else, going back to a previous question does it start to misfire or just seem like rev limiter has tripped in?
If changing the small old coil for a new one was the cause then it must be the new coil causing the issue no??
Post by: Johnwebley on March 10, 2023, 02:43:20 PM
I can't re fit the old coil,as I chucked it out ages ago,
mad day of clearing out supposed junk
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on March 10, 2023, 02:54:13 PM
Is the replacement coil branded?
Is there an alternative that you could try or borrow from a member?
Might be worth trying the original part number to find a replacement.
Is this yours 30500-306-673 ?
Have you tried the tests on page 63 of the service manual in Ashs dropbox?
.
https://www.squaremotorcycleparts.co.uk/products/ignition-coil-honda-cb200-cb-200-1976-1979?variant=41572787355802¤cy=GBP&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic
Post by: Oddjob on March 10, 2023, 04:35:49 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on March 10, 2023, 05:08:24 PM
Had to improvise with my daughters nappy pin as a connector into the plug lead to complete the rest of the journey from Bridgewater where it became almost undriveable dut to it being an automatic.
Post by: Johnwebley on March 10, 2023, 07:44:07 PM
I think most of us have done something similar when doing rebuilds when the old parts pile gets too largeI have asked Square For the specifications
Is the replacement coil branded?
Is there an alternative that you could try or borrow from a member?
Might be worth trying the original part number to find a replacement.
Is this yours 30500-306-673 ?
Have you tried the tests on page 63 of the service manual in Ashs dropbox?
.
https://www.squaremotorcycleparts.co.uk/products/ignition-coil-honda-cb200-cb-200-1976-1979?variant=41572787355802¤cy=GBP&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic
Ohm for the coil
Not much point in getting the same again,
Seen some as low as 4,
????
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Post by: Johnwebley on March 10, 2023, 07:45:38 PM
How sure are you that the new HT caps are not fakes, lots of them around and they fail like you state. I had one HT cap that failed when it got hot many years ago now, acted just like that and that was on a four cylinder, just wouldn't rev past 6K. Just cause it's new doesn't mean it can't be the fault.Will try others
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Post by: Sesman on March 10, 2023, 08:17:08 PM
Post by: Johnwebley on March 10, 2023, 08:30:11 PM
Try ‘Green Spark Plug Co’. I’m pretty confident that only supply original items judging from what I’ve been supplied with in the past. I’m pretty much convinced your issue is ignition break down.Thanks
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Post by: Oddjob on March 10, 2023, 09:48:18 PM
Post by: Johnwebley on March 10, 2023, 09:58:10 PM
are you talking about the plugs?
or the caps,
the caps I got from Wemoto,
can't remember were I got the plugs from
Post by: Oddjob on March 10, 2023, 10:01:28 PM
Post by: Oddjob on March 10, 2023, 10:13:27 PM
If you want a 90 degree plug cap that starts with an L and the slightly angled ones are 120 degrees is Y.
That make sense?
Post by: Laverdaroo on March 10, 2023, 10:20:19 PM
The most memorable being a set of front brake seals for the VFR. They absorbed so much fluid and swelled that the brakes warped the discs on the first run out!
I only buy OEM stuff to replace OEM stuff now…..including caps and the like.
Only from experience I’d get your caps somewhere else to be sure. I wouldn’t know how to test them but someone will tell me soon no doubt
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Post by: Oddjob on March 10, 2023, 10:29:02 PM
Just bought some NGK caps for future use, might as well get them whilst they are available, seems it's something to do with the stuff the body is made from, shortage or no longer made I believe.
Post by: Sesman on March 10, 2023, 10:39:22 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on March 10, 2023, 11:00:44 PM
Probably not relevant but as V= IR a lower resistance would mean a bigger current ?
Would higher resistance meaning lower current demand help supply more spark at higher revs - I'm way out of my depth here just thinking out loud in the hope it can help.
IIRC the 400 runs on 4.6 Ohms so if a 200 has half the cylinders & 1 coil would that be a similar sort of figure?
My online search suggests the CB200 coil is 4 ohms according to the below three sellers.
.https://www.amazon.com/Ignition-Coil-Honda-CB160-CB175/dp/B079M69MW1
.
https://4into1.com/ignition-coil-honda-cb-cl160-175-200/
.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003463624926.html
Post by: Sesman on March 11, 2023, 08:01:31 AM
I could be wrong, but I’m sure there is a thread somewhere, where Ash constructed an ignition coil tester to simulate the ignition process and coil performance. Apart from open circuit (continuity testing), I’m guessing the most common cause of failure is insulation failure, whether that be in the coil structure our downstream on the HT leads, caps and plugs.
Just for completeness, the back EMF created in the coil primary circuit as a result of collapsing current (points opening) drives a current. It’s this voltage and current that arcs across the points causing damage to the points surfaces. That’s why it’s important to have a good condenser (capacitor). The arching also extends the collapsing current time constant, which is counter productive to good spark production.
I know, I know. A tedious subject that many are fully versed on, but if it helps somebody out there to understand the basic mechanism it will improve their fault finding. Apologies to all who may feel patronised, this item was not for their benefit.🫣
Post by: Johnwebley on March 11, 2023, 09:36:02 AM
When it gets a little dryer and warmer I shall check all my plug caps for resistance,
What is the refresh rate on the coil?
Can you estimate how many times a second is to many?
The difference between 4 and 5 ohm,
Back later
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Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on March 11, 2023, 09:41:03 AM
How about lower ohms means more current so then Watts = Volts x Amps so more power for the spark? I'm conveniently forgetting that it's the primary current etc.
Post by: K2-K6 on March 11, 2023, 09:59:53 AM
Lowering ohms on primary will usually result in the coil producing excess heat as it just doesn't need this, rather than greater spark.
Very high rpm , there's maybe a case to consider this, but not generally running an engine like this one.
Post by: Sesman on March 11, 2023, 10:03:07 AM
.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on March 11, 2023, 10:13:35 AM
Going back to the post we seem to be edging towards it's more about coil design quality & cap ends so even if they should be 4 ohms 4.6 ohms might work okay?
Post by: Sesman on March 11, 2023, 10:17:51 AM
JW, I strongly suspect this is ignition related. Check those points and condenser, substitute, the plugs and caps and lastly swop out your coil. I haven’t mentioned HT leads as I presume they are composite, being embedded in the Honda coil?
Post by: Sesman on March 11, 2023, 10:20:28 AM
Post by: Johnwebley on March 11, 2023, 12:37:29 PM
Checked the caps,
All read about 5.3k
Coil secondary 17k
Started and warmed up nicely
Then it started raining
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Post by: K2-K6 on March 11, 2023, 12:58:16 PM
Once warmed that is :)
Post by: Johnwebley on March 11, 2023, 01:08:00 PM
Point of reference, will it rev to the red line in neutral ?Mmmmmm
Once warmed that is :)
Not sure I want to try
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Post by: K2-K6 on March 11, 2023, 01:38:41 PM
Post by: Sesman on March 11, 2023, 02:32:25 PM
Post by: Sesman on March 12, 2023, 09:24:57 AM
Post by: Sesman on March 12, 2023, 09:43:41 AM
Back on topic, was the misfire, holding back problem solved?
not quite died yet,its been cold,so I have left it until it warms up.
BUT,thinking ,at 6,000 rpm itis generating 100 sparks per second,using the 4.7ohm coil ,
is that enough to make the coil refresh??
infact,at the red line of 9K,it should be having 150 bangs a second,.
I know it was hopeless with a wide contact gap,reducing it to 12thou certainly improved the general running,but not increased how high it revs.
does anyone know the spec of the original coil?
no details on either DSS or CMSNL,Wemoto give 4.7 for one,and 4.2 for another.
HELP
John.
Very basically, at 6k the engine is firing at say 100times per second. For a typical coil time constant of say 4ms, the coil could reach steady state DC magnetism say 250 times per second, so you can see there is significant time for the coil to “charge” as some folk like to describe it. However, the ability of the coil to achieve ‘steady state’ will be determined to some extent by the timing advancer. Without advance the rpm might well outstrip the time constant/dwell time and hence the ignition break down. I’m convinced it’s an ignition system issue. Though I could be wrong, I normally am. I’m very suspicious of that 6k figure as it definitely resonates with ignition advance, coil and points.
Post by: Sesman on March 12, 2023, 09:45:17 AM
Post by: Sesman on March 12, 2023, 09:49:26 AM
https://www.denso-technic.com/bg/everything-you-need-to-know-about-ignition-coil-charge-up.
Post by: K2-K6 on March 12, 2023, 10:02:48 AM
Hopefully to constructively add something;- the ignition advance doesn't change dwell or compensate for it's shift. Dwell change is because a mechanical system with rotor, although constant geometry, will pass the trigger point faster and faster with increasing revs, and so shorten in time frame the effect of that gemoetry. This has to be accommodated in coil performance if the ignition is to function at both low and high rpm.
It's something that true electronic triggering and accompanying switching eliminates via constant dwell TIME through full rpm range, if designed correctly.
Ignition advance shift is solely to take care of fuel burn characteristics, this is relatively constant and wouldn’t complete at the correct point in power stroke as rpm increaesd (a diesel is like this, and limited generally in max rpm because of it) to get the fuel to reach peak combustion at high rpm at correct position in stroke there's need to start the fire earlier and earlier, hence ignition advance to make sure the burn constant is fulfilled even though the piston is travelling faster.
Post by: Johnwebley on March 12, 2023, 10:31:52 AM
This is typical of this forum, lots of intelligent discussion and help,
Great fun reading it,
Ok,the weather has improved, so I shall get the 200 out for a run,
Might even see if it will rev past 6k with no load,
Might get the 500 out, that does rev past 9k,but it has Boyer ignition
Thanks guys,
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Post by: K2-K6 on March 12, 2023, 11:25:42 AM
Post by: Johnwebley on March 12, 2023, 11:49:34 AM
I do think that Boyer is a really clever system John, and didn't grasp the theory/ strategy of design until looking at diesel injection system (very similar in running retard control rather than advance) in how it works, signalled by correctly checking ultimate timing at full "advance" position to correctly set the baseline.
I first used Boyer in around 74,on a BSA A65 powered sidecar racer,
then about 78,I got a set for the 500,
Post by: Sesman on March 12, 2023, 12:00:21 PM
Post by: Johnwebley on March 12, 2023, 03:21:36 PM
Get the 500 out JW. You know it makes sense.Did about 25 miles on the 500,
Like riding an electric motor,
The 200,after removing caps to measure, and refitting carefully ran better,
Under load full throttle nearly 7k,
Pull the clutch in,revs increased to 9k but not rapidly,
Coming back down a slope it revved to nearly 8k on two thirds throttle, pulling the clutch in,the revs shot up to nearly 10k quickly
Your thoughts, gentlemen
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Post by: Oddjob on March 12, 2023, 03:32:21 PM
Post by: K2-K6 on March 12, 2023, 03:38:53 PM
Post by: K2-K6 on March 12, 2023, 03:40:51 PM
Post by: Oddjob on March 12, 2023, 04:08:38 PM
Post by: Sesman on March 12, 2023, 04:44:15 PM
Post by: Johnwebley on March 12, 2023, 05:49:31 PM
Standard jets
Full standard air cleaners
I thought lean,so I operated the choke, no benefit
New manifold and carb O rings
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Post by: Oddjob on March 12, 2023, 05:53:45 PM
Post by: Johnwebley on March 12, 2023, 06:05:49 PM
Is clip position alterable?Tried it previously
Lifted the needle one slot,
Sooty plugs and rough running
also tried 95 MJ instead of 88, no difference,
sure the spark is not failing under load?
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Post by: K2-K6 on March 13, 2023, 08:45:51 AM
Obviously, as noted by Ted, the only real way of eliminating the coil conclusively is by substitution to assess that effect.
Try running it in the dark to see if you're getting any HT leakage, I've been caught out on some leads like that before, seemed to function well but looked like a hairy caterpillar in the dark ;D they were leaking a fine "mist" along entire length in damp air.
Post by: Johnwebley on March 13, 2023, 09:11:07 AM
So far, every thing apart from the points has been renewed
Plus MJ and needle moved and adjusted
Really confusing
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Post by: Johnwebley on March 25, 2023, 05:21:43 PM
I replaced the coil with a cheap Chinese replica, £13 from Aliexpress,3.5 ohm primary circuit
Checked the cables to the condenser,
Fitted X24 Denso
Lo and behold, it finally ran as it should
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230325/b034d0312eb55fadeaa5173296584113.jpg)
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Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on March 25, 2023, 06:08:54 PM
Post by: Johnwebley on March 25, 2023, 06:18:06 PM
Pleased to read it was sorted with an inexpensive coil fix.Thanks Ted,
That's after mega bucks NOS airfilters,
Coils with higher resistance
Carb jets
Boy,it was a money pit
But glad I sorted it
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Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on March 25, 2023, 06:47:44 PM
We've all done it with petrol engines have we not?
I had a Manta GT/E that was a pig to start in winter having an early design Bosch fuel injection system. I started with plugs then plug caps then plug leads then coil. Changed the fuel filter then finally found a bad connection on the cold start injector. A squirt of contact cleaner - all sorted.
Post by: Johnwebley on March 25, 2023, 07:30:09 PM
Yes but you did need some air filters did you not?Yes, I think we all do it
We've all done it with petrol engines have we not?
I had a Manta GT/E that was a pig to start in winter having an early design Bosch fuel injection system. I started with plugs then plug caps then plug leads then coil. Changed the fuel filter then finally found a bad connection on the cold start injector. A squirt of contact cleaner - all sorted.
Yes, I did need the filters
But it's fun!!
Isn't it
Frustrating at times, but gives great pleasure and satisfaction to get it running sweetly,
Thanks all for your help and support
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Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on March 25, 2023, 08:16:48 PM
Yes but you did need some air filters did you not?Yes, I think we all do it
We've all done it with petrol engines have we not?
I had a Manta GT/E that was a pig to start in winter having an early design Bosch fuel injection system. I started with plugs then plug caps then plug leads then coil then distributor cap. Changed the fuel filter then finally found a bad connection on the cold start injector. A squirt of contact cleaner - all sorted.
Yes, I did need the filters
But it's fun!!
Isn't it
Frustrating at times, but gives great pleasure and satisfaction to get it running sweetly,
Thanks all for your help and support
Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk
Post by: K2-K6 on March 25, 2023, 09:44:38 PM
Post by: Johnwebley on March 25, 2023, 09:49:59 PM
Good to get to the bottom of it John.Yes,
It rode really well, comfy, relatively light ,
Good feeling,
Very enjoyable,
Very glad to have it running nicely
And the summer is coming, perfect for the country lanes,and exploring the local hills
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