Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 10, 2022, 10:22:03 PM
On the plus side it runs. I'm sure Bryan would agree it needs some restoration / tlc.
I know there are several ongoing 500/550 builds but I feel the need to add my journey to the list. I will post a before photo shortly.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 10, 2022, 11:01:20 PM
So many decisions to make - I'm minded to sort out some insurance cover & ride it to decide if the engine need to be taken apart as part of the restoration.
Lots of pimply chrome etc as you would expect for a 50 year old bike - I love the rear grab rail arrangement.
Lots of work to do - lots of time to spend sorting her out - I'm going to be a little more sensible about costs on this build but those signature gold alloy rims are already pecking at me to be fitted.lol
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52348612433_1901f8c422_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nKSjFk)Ted's CB500 project bike (https://flic.kr/p/2nKSjFk) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
Post by: Oddjob on September 10, 2022, 11:35:50 PM
I have noticed though that it looks like the D washer is missing from the N/S top yoke pinch bolt, they might both be missing. You need these in to stop the top yoke breaking when the bolt is tightened.
Looks to be a US K1, the left hand switchgear isn't correct for that model, looks to be off a 550F.
Top hat missing from headlight screws, Graham does some nice stainless ones Ted.
Shame the tanks dented, looks nice.
Not being critical or picking holes in it Ted, just pointing out some small things you would be advised to fix. You can keep the left hand switchgear though if it works, does it have the headlight flasher?
Let me know if I can help with anything.
Post by: Johnny4428 on September 11, 2022, 08:00:51 AM
Post by: Sesman on September 11, 2022, 08:04:28 AM
Post by: SPR on September 11, 2022, 08:23:35 AM
Simon
Post by: Bryanj on September 11, 2022, 08:26:05 AM
Post by: Rozabikes Tim on September 11, 2022, 08:32:37 AM
Did you fetch it yourself, courier or what?
Post by: Sesman on September 11, 2022, 08:38:57 AM
Post by: Bryanj on September 11, 2022, 09:01:43 AM
I explained to Ted that this was not a restored bike and was built for a specific reasom with the most useable bits i had acess to at the time and we were both happy with the bike and price.
Roo was very kind in transporting it as i no longer have a vehicle with towbar and even when his initial reason for going that way fell through still transported the bike for Ted.
I am more than happy to give reasons for anything seen and me and Ted have agreements that we wont discuss here.
Post by: Sesman on September 11, 2022, 09:33:47 AM
I was responding to the earlier suggestion it was a US model….not that it really matters IMHO- they are all Japanese exports.
Good luck Ted. You have got to take the motor apart….it’s mandatory 😀
Post by: gary123 on September 11, 2022, 10:19:00 AM
Post by: Laverdaroo on September 11, 2022, 11:53:18 AM
Ive only ever bought two bikes that have run on four when I bought them. And one of those was a Ducati ;D
Great to meet Ted and Wendy yesterday, I had a fantastic couple of coffes there and a good giggle.I know who wears the trousers ;D ;D ;D (sorry Ted)
What great folk, brilliant to meet them both. I'd have bought that had I the dosh and a shed not full of machinery in bits ;D I know Ted will love working on that this winter its a lovely little bike that.
Cant believe that Bryan threw the cobwebs and arachnids in FOC, he's obviously mellowing in his old age ;) :D
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 11, 2022, 12:25:35 PM
It's a good start.
I have noticed though that it looks like the D washer is missing from the N/S top yoke pinch bolt, they might both be missing. You need these in to stop the top yoke breaking when the bolt is tightened.
Looks to be a US K1, the left hand switchgear isn't correct for that model, looks to be off a 550F.
Top hat missing from headlight screws, Graham does some nice stainless ones Ted.
Shame the tanks dented, looks nice.
Not being critical or picking holes in it Ted, just pointing out some small things you would be advised to fix. You can keep the left hand switchgear though if it works, does it have the headlight flasher?
Let me know if I can help with anything.
Thanks for your observations Ken you are correct neither D washer is in place - wow aren't they pricey at £8.88each at DS.
No pass switch fitted but everything works - well I can hear the horn click once but not sound.lol
No top hats on headlamps.
The tank needs painting as it has some scratch marks on the top & elsewhere.
A promising start I also cant see a fuse box just one added in line blade fuse ??
Post by: SPR on September 11, 2022, 12:51:53 PM
A promising start I also cant see a fuse box just one added in line blade fuse ??
Mine only has one inline fuse I think ....
Simon
Post by: Oddjob on September 11, 2022, 01:06:59 PM
Tis a UK one but got a US rear mudguard as i had more decent ones of those and grab rail as i couldnt find the handle or uk indicator mounts at the time.
Fooled me with that one Bryan. The grabrail threw me as I knew the UK didn't get one. Looks to be off a 550 as well as they are higher at the back than the 500 grabrails.
500 only ever had a single inline fuse Ted, it was a big mistake by Honda IMO, if it blows EVERYTHING dies, engine included. If you can't find what's causing the blow you're stranded. The 550 has much better electrics which was why I fitted a 550 loom to my 500.
Post by: Laverdaroo on September 11, 2022, 01:26:32 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220911/e07aa656faccd90110bc7eae5e3ef72d.jpg)Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Oddjob on September 11, 2022, 01:30:32 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on September 11, 2022, 01:42:02 PM
Rings checked in bores
Rings on (hate that bit, what a faff with sausage fingers)
Pots on rods
Clips in
have a good waggle and a fiddle..
(then get back to the bike build in the shed :D)
Barrels on bench
rubbers on
oil control valves in
o rings on
Gasket on and check
Barrels on and a delve into the Anglo Saxon vocab book ;D
Just got out here now............onwards 8)
Post by: Laverdaroo on September 11, 2022, 01:42:07 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 11, 2022, 03:19:40 PM
Fuses?……….. hell, where do they go
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I thought that engine was going to Birmingham way yesterday or is it an old photo?
Post by: philward on September 11, 2022, 06:46:37 PM
Big advantage is you know it's background and it comes from an expert - a luxury most of us never have when buying a 50 year old bike. Good luck and enjoy the build.
They are great bikes!
Sent from my moto g(50) using Tapatalk
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 11, 2022, 07:21:01 PM
I'm going to take the back wheel out as it's binding I suspect due to some rusting in the hub area. The throttle movement is quite stiff even though the carbs have been refurbished - not sure if it's the twist grip or the cables so I need to fix that plus reduce the front brake lever travel before I ride her on the road.
This is plan A before the strip down starts.
Post by: gary123 on September 11, 2022, 07:28:58 PM
Post by: Bryanj on September 11, 2022, 07:33:16 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on September 11, 2022, 08:22:14 PM
Fuses?……….. hell, where do they go
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I thought that engine was going to Birmingham way yesterday or is it an old photo?
Fuses?……….. hell, where do they go
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I thought that engine was going to Birmingham way yesterday or is it an old photo?
No I wanted to see if Bryan could check it for me that's why it was aboard Ted. I bobbed into Brmingham to see a mate and drop her a few bits in for her bikes she has.
That piccy was this morning before I started faffing about.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 12, 2022, 08:49:02 AM
Front brake lever travel is about right Ted, dont forget its new caliper, piston and seal. Hoses are used but not cracked and its new fluid.It's more of a mechanical issue with the brake lever. There is about an inch of movement at the end of the lever before it starts to actuate the master cylinder - It does not feel like pivot pin wear just a load of movement that does nothing?
Once the lever meets the master cylinder the brake feel is as it should be. I did wonder if it's the right lever.
Post by: Bryanj on September 12, 2022, 10:23:22 AM
The play was a common complaint back in the day, never really found a cure, i have heard of the yanks aralditing a dime on the end of the master piston
Post by: K2-K6 on September 12, 2022, 11:15:45 AM
In essence a proper "Gorilla" stress test that will find any failure to survive in safety. Ordinarily that's way above any in use pressure that it'll be subjected to and give confidence that the seals etc are working.
On the free travel though, something that I've never like and as Bryan indicated, some system seem to inherently have mechanical geometry that gives too much travel. Maybe someone else can help with example fro another 500 that agrees or dispels with this example. I've always used genuine Honda levers as not keen on material specs for many non oem types.
Post by: florence on September 12, 2022, 01:06:21 PM
Very nice bike, good luck with project.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 12, 2022, 05:00:37 PM
Next sort out the stiff throttle - just drained the tank prior to removal to get at the open & closing cables - seat removed to make it easier to access all areas.
Definitely need to look inside the engine for peace of mind.
Post by: Nurse Julie on September 12, 2022, 05:14:07 PM
Post by: flatfour on September 12, 2022, 05:44:58 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 12, 2022, 06:01:20 PM
On the subject of brake lever travel, I (and a good few other riders that I know from our evening bike meets) have found that replacing the original Honda master cylinder (smooth reservoir) with a pattern type (fluted reservoir) reduces lever travel immediately, for reasons that I am unsure of, but assume that perhaps the piston sizes differ slightly?
I have a DS replica on my 400 - there is virtually zero movement.
I'll try a spare original lever see how that is if it fits.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 12, 2022, 06:05:35 PM
Sounds like you have found yourself a good project Ted.
My dirty engrained fingerprints will confirm that - I have plan A to complete - then ride it ASAP before winter sets in - see how the gearbox feels then I can see it being a pile of parts before Christmas!
Post by: Laverdaroo on September 12, 2022, 09:25:01 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 13, 2022, 08:31:16 AM
Horay, balance will be returned to the Ted household ;) :D
Except my phone does not recognise my finger print.😁
Post by: Laverdaroo on September 13, 2022, 10:02:39 AM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Bryanj on September 13, 2022, 10:40:12 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 13, 2022, 11:31:53 AM
My submitted prints were rejected twice before anyone read the note I submitted on the form.
The glass dust wears them away - still now there is the DNA option.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 13, 2022, 09:00:08 PM
Nice chrome stopper in the handlebar end. - not sure if that's original.
Started first clean of the spare crank cases that Bryan has provided / lent me - boy was there some oil crud on the case halves. As I'm giving it some stiff brushing with petrol in a plastic box that the cases arrived in I realise petrol is leaking every where - the box has a split in the base!
Post by: Bryanj on September 13, 2022, 11:42:56 PM
Post by: Sesman on September 14, 2022, 06:17:24 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 14, 2022, 08:05:47 AM
Ted, I may just have a spare throttle tube kicking about. Don’t buy before checking with me.
Thanks Philip,
I've not bought a replacement yet - can't believe the cost of the grips mine are not in great condition & will not come off the tube in one piece. Cheers Ted
Post by: Sesman on September 14, 2022, 08:10:16 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 14, 2022, 08:10:37 AM
On the subject of brake lever travel, I (and a good few other riders that I know from our evening bike meets) have found that replacing the original Honda master cylinder (smooth reservoir) with a pattern type (fluted reservoir) reduces lever travel immediately, for reasons that I am unsure of, but assume that perhaps the piston sizes differ slightly?
My 400 has the fluted type that I bought from DS they list the same part for the 500. Clearly the lever on the DS part is right up against the piston when the lever is at rest with no floppy movement. The 500 piston is more rcessed plus the lever flops back as well. For a trial ride the brakes are solid enough but for the rebuild I will go for the DS one methinks.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 14, 2022, 08:12:52 AM
Beware of non oem grips. Check the length before buying.
So far I've priced up via DS for some bits they are in my view not always the cheapest but they usually fit.
Post by: Sesman on September 14, 2022, 08:16:13 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 14, 2022, 08:22:48 AM
Mine didn’t…too short by 10mm. Not a problem in my opinion, but some folk are really obsessive about such things.
I'm not obsesive. repeat after me, I'm not obsesive, I'm not obsesive, sorry OCD tripping in - just need to check I locked the front door won't be a tick.
Post by: Sesman on September 14, 2022, 08:24:25 AM
Post by: Sesman on September 14, 2022, 08:25:09 AM
Post by: Oddjob on September 14, 2022, 12:35:56 PM
You could find one cheap on Ebay and the grips are good as well, don't get the 500 genuine grips, they are frankly awful, uncomfortable even with gloves on and without sheer agony to use. The 550F grips are far better and the 1300 grips look just like them.
If it has any cables coming out of it don't buy as it's hand heated grips fitted and you'd need the other side to match and the 500 couldn't run them anyway.
https://www.bike-parts-honda.com/honda-motorcycle/1300-MOTO/CB/2009/CB13009/Frame/LEVER--SWITCH--CABLE-2-/75361/F_03/2/722
Post by: Sesman on September 14, 2022, 12:41:58 PM
Definitely agree with 550F2 grips.
Post by: Oddjob on September 14, 2022, 02:09:21 PM
AND,
You don't need to order from DS, any Honda dealer will get them for you.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 14, 2022, 03:50:23 PM
The 1300 throttle pipe comes with grip already attached so even though it's pricey if buying new at least you get both pipe and grip and buy the matching grip for the left side and it's acceptable for what you get. Plus the grips are nice, stylish and comfortable.
AND,
You don't need to order from DS, any Honda dealer will get them for you.
Presumably they are the same diameter handle bars the, do you have a part number for the 1300 option by any chance?
The bike is taxed & insured from today only cost £26.99 to add the 500 to my Policy with Peter James.
Just fitting a spare horn as the existing one just clicks - tried the adjuster screw - result a louder single click.
Can't dismantle as it's rivetted together.
Throttle routing sorted using existing cables just need to sort the horn so it's road legal.
First ride before the weekend hopefully.
Amendment:- Spare horn fitted & operational. (Gawd it does sound a pathetic beep).
Post by: Oddjob on September 14, 2022, 06:21:26 PM
Part number is shown on that link I posted but just in case, part number 5 is 53140-MFP-N00 £28.55 and the corresponding grip to match is part No6, 53166-MFP-N00 at £15.90. Prices include VAT. Total £44.45. You can ring any local Honda dealer with those part numbers and pay over the phone, they'll advise when in stock and just one trip to pick them up.
As comparison, throttle pipe, 53141-300-010 is £16.08 , R/H grip 53165-390-780 is £12.12 and L/H grip 53166-390-780 is also £12.12. Total £40.32 plus £7 P&P DS charges. Reasonably comparable I'd say.
I was lucky in mine, I fitted genuine Honda heated grips to the 1300 and it came with throttle pipe included so I removed all those parts, thus my upgrade is free.
Post by: SPR on September 14, 2022, 08:38:22 PM
Ted, for the throttle pipe I'd recommend buying one off a CB1300, 2003-2010. The ears where the cables connect is bigger so you get more pull for the same action, I tested it when trying to reduce the throttle movement the 500 is plagued with. It reduces the amount of twist you need to make by around 14% IIRC.
I thought it was just me thinking the twist was ridiculous !! Cheers :)
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 14, 2022, 09:50:11 PM
Complete RH unit £28.55
LKeft hand |Grip £15.90
Transport £7.90
Total £52.35 incl VAT still cheaper than DS will it work with the existing cables?
Post by: Oddjob on September 14, 2022, 10:04:00 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 14, 2022, 10:34:11 PM
Fitted my test rig Ted. Why not order from your local dealer via phone.
The local Honda dealer was Bob Minions in Derby who is now selling Royal Enfields - nearest dealer is a good 20 miles away (None in Derby itself now) so cost more in fuel to drive over.
What is the test rig you refer to Ken?
Post by: Oddjob on September 15, 2022, 03:42:02 PM
So here goes again.
Test rig. Used my old genuine Honda handlebars, a genuine left hand switchgear and some old but good throttle cables. For the carbs I just used the frame with the butterfly on as carbs are not needed for this. I marked everything up at rest and then remarked when throttle fully open. Check reply 137 on this thread. http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,19895.135.html It explains what I did and what the results were.
20 miles would be good to do the test run on the 500 Ted, but hey ho, it's your money and I can see why postage may be better.
Whilst you've got the left hand switchgear open have you checked to see if the throttle clamp is working. This is the large chrome screw under the switch and between the cables, when you wind it in the throttle stiffens up, which I can see you frowning thinking why would I want that, well on a motorway you can wind this screw in as you ride and the throttle will stay open at a set speed, all that pressure of holding the throttle open goes away, in case you need to shut off the throttle you just twist it and the return cable closes the throttle against the pressure of the clamp. The screw should have a chrome spring on but there is an internal ramp? which usually falls out when you open the switchgear and rolls away and you never notice it. Check to see if this ramp is there. It's a very handy bit of kit, can be used to set the tickover at 3000 to check the advance retard mechanism for instance, which is what Honda fitted it for IIRC. The 750 and the 500 got this clamp, the 550 did not. However everything on the 550 switchgear is there except the drilling for the screw, I converted my 550 switchgear to fit one as I use it a lot.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 15, 2022, 04:08:29 PM
Can't ride my 500 today as it's stuck on my bike stand - on it's centre stand - either my brother or a friend will have to help me get it off safely.
On my 400 I could stradle the bike on the stand, put my left foot on the stand lever and push forwards pulling on the front brake before the front wheel hits the front stop plate - the 500 is heavier plus the lever is higher off the ground I just can't hold the stand with my left foot the whole bike moves forward instead on the darn ramp base. It might be the centre stand pivot is a little seized.
I've tried putting a long piece of wood between the ramp end & the foot of the cente stand but it's just does not quite come off the stand. Not worth risking me falling over with the bike trying to do it alone - or even worse the bike falling on Wendy's car in the garage -
Post by: Oddjob on September 15, 2022, 04:56:17 PM
I fitted grease nipples all over the bike, the rear brake pivot tube for the brake lever has one, both front caliper mounts have them, swinging arm got a central grease nipple to improve the way the bushes got greased, even the headstock got one, I can grease the taper rollers without taking the bike apart.
I have further plans to improve the side stand and make it cut the engine out if you set off with it down (and you will do this, everyone has), lots of ideas, some good, some just weird.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 15, 2022, 06:11:44 PM
Good news young Marco (I got him through his driving test almost 5 yrs ago) dropped by on his way home from work to help me get the bike safely off the ramp.
I'm cooking the tea now for when Wendy's back from work so the road test will have to wait till the morrow.
Post by: Sesman on September 15, 2022, 07:10:17 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 15, 2022, 09:55:04 PM
C’mon Ted. Make an effort the suspense is killing me…🫣
[/quote
Philip, I have a small widow of opportunity tomorrow I have a Hospital appointment at 3.50 pm and an important delivery between 11.00am & 2.00pm. if I go for after 2.00pm and break down - problem. If I go at around 9 30 am it works for me if it's dry!
If I break down early morning then Royal Mail can try a neighbour!
Post by: Bryanj on September 15, 2022, 11:30:16 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 16, 2022, 11:01:37 AM
Post by: Sesman on September 16, 2022, 11:04:44 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 16, 2022, 11:36:43 AM
You’re just teasing us….
Wuss is nearer the mark - I have the odd bad days amongst good days - today my thighs ached when I got up - must have run a marathon whilst asleep - it's also known as old age.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 16, 2022, 05:16:36 PM
You’re just teasing us….
You have shamed me into a first ride now I'm back home from my appointment Philip.
After a tin of Popeye's best spinach I rode around the estate at the back to see how I managed - it felt as heavy as my old XJ 900 as I pootled round the block only got as far as third gear due to traffic, speed limit, seemingly poor heavy front brake plus rear pedal is a tad low. My feet seem too big I keep on striking the alternator housing with my size 12's- shame its not heel & toe shift.
The bike certainly fits me better in terms of comfort / height - it seems to have a lot more grunt/torque than my 400. As the bike has been standing it might be prudent for me to check the caliper piston operation before I do another run to get into top gear.
A promising start from my perspective. It reminded me of when I first rode my Triumph 21 when I was 19/20.
BP & Pulse back to normal.
Post by: Oddjob on September 16, 2022, 06:11:36 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 16, 2022, 08:31:10 PM
Check the rear brake pedal punch marks align with the brake spindle Ted, if they do try adjusting the height screw on the frame, you can raise or lower the pedal with it.
The adjustment screw is a long way out so moving the pedal a spline ot two will sort.
Post by: Sesman on September 16, 2022, 08:46:06 PM
Now for next outing…..
Post by: Oddjob on September 16, 2022, 09:53:51 PM
If the punch marks line up, not only on the brake pedal and brake spindle but also on the brake drum arm and it’s spindle and things still don’t feel right it shows that somewhere there’s a problem. It could be worn brake shoes or the pivot pin has excessive play or one of the levers is bent etc so just moving the splines may in fact cover up the fault.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 17, 2022, 09:22:29 AM
Moving the splines may not be the answer though Ted. Honda used punch marks so as to make it easy to not only get the mechanism right but also to highlight when it had a problem.
If the punch marks line up, not only on the brake pedal and brake spindle but also on the brake drum arm and it’s spindle and things still don’t feel right it shows that somewhere there’s a problem. It could be worn brake shoes or the pivot pin has excessive play or one of the levers is bent etc so just moving the splines may in fact cover up the fault.
The brake shoes look very new with naff all wear I'll check the punch mark & follow your diagnosis advice. Not likely to do much before Tuesday as the Gaffer is at home & shopping beckons. (sigh)
Update:- Managed to sneak a look at the bike - the rear brake levershaft dots are just one half spline out - if I rotate the lever just one spline anticlockwise it will be sorted. Must have felt stronger today as I managed to get the 500 on the centre stand without drama this morning after resting overnight on the side stand. (The bike not me)
Post by: smoothoperator on September 17, 2022, 09:46:25 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 17, 2022, 10:26:03 AM
You need to wear a pair of those shoes like Slade used to wear Ted, maybe you've got some in the loft.
Not sure I could find any Daytona m/c Winkle Pickers boots these days probably no NOS ones left- I might be able to move the lever a bit lower to give me boot-toe room.
Slades platforms would make my feet even bigger I need Shawaddy Waddy ones!
Post by: Bryanj on September 17, 2022, 03:35:11 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 17, 2022, 08:34:33 PM
Yesterday I tried the same method to get it on the centre stand after 3 fails it was on the side stand overnight. This morning same way as yesterday - left hand on the bars, right hand on the rear rail, pressed down with my right foot - straight up on the stand.
Just a crap day yesterday - vision, balance & leg weakness - today normal.👍👍👍
Post by: Bryanj on September 17, 2022, 09:52:51 PM
Post by: Spitfire on September 18, 2022, 11:09:56 AM
Cheers
Dennis
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 18, 2022, 11:13:42 AM
Sounds familiar Ted, I'm sure either the bike gets heavier or gravity gets stronger as time passes.
Cheers
Dennis
Too true Dennis plus the fear of dropping it & looking extra stupid!
Post by: Bryanj on September 18, 2022, 01:02:30 PM
Post by: taysidedragon on September 18, 2022, 07:52:09 PM
Sounds familiar Ted, I'm sure either the bike gets heavier or gravity gets stronger as time passes.
Cheers
Dennis
Too true Dennis plus the fear of dropping it & looking extra stupid!
Does anybody make a zimmer frame with bike lift attachment? 🤣
Post by: Bryanj on September 18, 2022, 08:07:02 PM
Post by: SPR on September 19, 2022, 08:18:10 AM
Busso have reduced the price of their exhaust systems for 40 days
Not sure what add on costs there are but £800 seems a good deal
https://www.bussostore.com/collections/honda/products/marmitte-honda-replica-originali-cb500k0k1k2-four
Simon
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 23, 2022, 04:53:47 PM
Last Friday 16th Sept 2022 I managed to get round the block at the back but due to a lack of safe braking I returned home only managing to get as high as 3rd gear. I did not mention previously that as I turned into my drive the engine stalled at my gates.
After opening the gates the bike did not want to restart so I was forced to walk it up ino my garage with leg power. I then noticed that the choke was fully on in the up position. Choke off and she fired up okay.
Today I had lunch out with my brother I stuck to alcohol free beer as I had a longer ride out planned this afternoon. Bike started up so initially I thought a short ride around the estate to try the brakes out before the test ride propper.
I started off well with some extra revving to keep the engine going as it was warming up. As I rode round the block it was running progressively worse so decided to return home. Once again the engine struggled to keep going as I turned into my driveway where it conked out. The choke was once again the culprit being in the fully on position.
I'm not sure why the choke comes on - could be I catch it with my boots when changing gear?
Is this something others here have had an issue with - I might need to put a rubber band on it somehow to stop accidental operation. The engine is now misfiring so I will need to clean the plugs again and try again at the weekend.
Post by: Oddjob on September 23, 2022, 04:58:30 PM
There is a small spring and ball bearing fitted behind the lever, if it's been left out on the rebuild the lever will essentially just move under the vibration of the engine. There are small indents on the back of the choke lever for the ball bearing to go into at fully open/close, you should hear the click as the bearing locates at both these positions.
I has however been known for boots to close the choke as you ride as you suggest, just check where the boots are in relation to the choke lever and see if it looks a possibility
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 23, 2022, 05:11:37 PM
Its a series or four/five roads round the block with lots of up & down on the approaches to give ways. On my 400 the choke is much higher up & out of the way so not a problem.
Post by: Oddjob on September 23, 2022, 06:00:12 PM
As for the boot, you may have to alter your riding position a bit or wear shorter boots. I've got some Marc Marquez ankle boots by Alpine Star and find them really comfortable, much more so then my Sidi boots.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 23, 2022, 06:05:04 PM
Even Gerben cam make a mistake Ted. Always worth checking.
As for the boot, you may have to alter your riding position a bit or wear shorter boots. I've got some Marc Marquez ankle boots by Alpine Star and find them really comfortable, much more so then my Sidi boots.
I struggle with the gear upshift due to my size 12 feet in my Daytonas - not sure if I can shift the lever a bit lower down on the splines.
If you see someone in Derbyshire on a 500 riding extra Bow Legged it will be me !
Post by: Bryanj on September 23, 2022, 06:13:46 PM
Post by: Oddjob on September 23, 2022, 06:22:25 PM
Check post 171 on this thread http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,19895.165.html
Post by: flatfour on September 23, 2022, 06:36:59 PM
The answer was to wear only ankle boots when using it, something that I found so comfortable that my new full - length boots remain virtually unused, except in very cold weather or when touring.
By chance, I ended up fitting a 750-gear lever on the 500 as the splines became worn on the original and I had a 750 lever in my box of spares. I subsequently found that, after riding my BMW and jumping straight on to the 500 in full - length boots, it had cured the tendency for me to catch the choke lever on upshifts - something that you might like to try yourself?
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 23, 2022, 08:36:29 PM
I'd check the gear lever Ted as well, behind the part where it clamps. The 500 lever is very slightly longer than the 550 lever but they look identical, it's very easy to mix the 2 up. The 550 has a letter A stamped on the inside of that block, the 500 doesn't.Not sure what the PO fitted I'll check the shifter.
Check post 171 on this thread http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,19895.165.html
Pretty sure I can make an interlock to keep the choke off without too much difficulty.
There is always a cable tie if all else fails.lol
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 23, 2022, 09:23:54 PM
I have read on the US site of people having that problem with the choke Ted but never had it myself, the lever can be moved on the splines but you need to make sure the clamp bolt does not foul against anything, if you want i will try and find another gear lever so you could try and modify the shape to help.I'll check what lever I have first thanks Bryan - at least I've found the cause it was weird as the bike ran rougher and rougher so quickly. Glad it's something simple to sort out.
Post by: 3scs on September 23, 2022, 10:18:18 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 24, 2022, 11:49:00 AM
All five gears were good - I did quite a bit of accelerating & gentle braking to get the front pads settled - brakes got better with every application as the pads warmed up a little. Most importantly my hips were fine - it felt an easier ride than the 400 with the extra torque as you would expect.
A 10 mile road trip revealed a few things to look at during the re-build - an odd clonk from the front suspension area - plenty of general clatter from the engine but nothing too sinister sounding.
I'm thinking cam chain & primary drive chain & clutch area noises to my semi-trained ears plus a noisy exhuast blow near the silencer joint area.
Not that there was really ever any doubt - the engine will need stripping down it will be a few months before I start in earnest as I want to finish my 400 spare carb rebuild and put a few more miles on my 400 before the cold & rain sets in. I'll do a compression test beforehand to get a datum point. The engine pulls very well despite the above only wound her up to 60 mph briefly to feel the burn. lol
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 26, 2022, 10:13:53 AM
Nice project Ted! Good luck, we look forward to updates. (Check clock mounting bracket, bent or loose) maybe just the angle but look as if they are sitting flatter than the norm.
Only one nut holding it on - the other was loose!
I've started the frame strip already so engine might be out within a week or so.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 26, 2022, 12:12:01 PM
.
Post by: Oddjob on September 26, 2022, 12:56:43 PM
When removing the filter Ted, don't forget that the spring has a large washer on top of it that gets stuck to the rubber of the filter and if you're not careful, thrown away with it.
Post by: K2-K6 on September 26, 2022, 01:49:56 PM
However, the oil filter is only in line supply from oil pump and out through the pressured points at crankshaft etc. Makes me wonder if that's possible to pass so much material (is it more or less one piece) through an entire system without blocking it. Perhaps I've missed something along the way.
As Ken says, inspection of the filter may give a clue, but I can't immediately see it all going through that system to arrive at the sump in first place.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 26, 2022, 03:30:57 PM
I'm going to investigate the filter but of course it could have come from a previous one.
Update: The filter I just removed looked fine - looks like a build up from previous filter(s).
Post by: Oddjob on September 26, 2022, 05:53:24 PM
Post by: Bryanj on September 26, 2022, 11:03:55 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 27, 2022, 08:58:38 AM
My fault for believing the man i got the engine from that it was rebuilt and fine!
Don't beat yourself up about it Bryan I have started refering to the "PO" not Bryan's old 500 - its a 50 year old bike that prior to yourself had a bunch of owners.
Good news for me is so far no seized bolts to contend with as the engine has clearly been stripped down before.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 27, 2022, 04:49:04 PM
I have removed the camshaft that was in superb condition - the cylinder head came off pretty easily only odd thing was when I was undoing the head nuts in order I thought the socket was slipping on the nuts - it made such a strange clicking noise as the nuts undid for the first half turn or so. After removinmg all the nuts & washers I squirted plenty of releasing fluid along the gasket line. A few taps with my big rubber mallet and it let go same with the block.
Most fidly bit was getting enough slack in the cam chain after undoing the drive gear to lift out the camshaft. Even now I have not worked out how I finally managed to get the chain off the gear so it would feed through so as to speak. I did have to have a coffee break to overcome that hurdle.
Some decent vertical scoring on a couple of the piston skirts - the engine knew I was going to to end up inside.
Crankcase splitting will have to wait until I have some floor space and have put stuff into storage.
Engine lift out within a week is my plan A.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52388356866_4f6c2809cb_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nPo2jb)No 1 & 2 pistons (https://flic.kr/p/2nPo2jb) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
Post by: Johnny4428 on September 27, 2022, 05:04:06 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on September 27, 2022, 07:21:33 PM
Dont forget, take more pictures than you think you have from every angle if you're not sure if you'll remember and the more coffee breaks the better..............with biscuits! Its the law! ;) 8)
Post by: taysidedragon on September 27, 2022, 08:49:30 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 27, 2022, 08:53:42 PM
Is that a score draw? Ted 2 Bike 2. 😁
I guess it is yes!
My BiL said I would buy another bike - I told him naaaaah.
Post by: Laverdaroo on September 27, 2022, 09:43:45 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 27, 2022, 10:14:07 PM
I love stripping motors, it's the time when you get to piece together a bit of potential history of the engine. Bet you're loving it Ted.?Hope you've plenty of black 'sharpies' and resealable freezer bags to get that lot in and labelled up for later?Never used freezer bags I use clear plastic takeaway boxes and some odd plastic woven boxes for bulky stuff (Wendy threw them out)
Dont forget, take more pictures than you think you have from every angle if you're not sure if you'll remember and the more coffee breaks the better..............with biscuits! Its the law! ;) 8)
Cam covers, cylinder head & block go in a big black plastic box with old towels or bubble wrap to stop damage. I try to arrange them in some sort of order on my garage shelves.
Today I have been searching for the alternator rotor end bolt without success. I'm eyeing the Chihuahuas as suspects.
Post by: Laverdaroo on September 28, 2022, 01:26:45 AM
I have one tote for all new stuff and another full of the bagged bits ready to be cleaned, fettled, sworn at etc. they both sit under the bench when its up so works ok for me. i tried the take away containers but endedup with loads of lids and no bottoms so went back to the bags. Its the same place where I get those little tubs from that I sent that snot in to you last month. Theyre god to and great in the sonic cleaner bath meaning you can do heaps all together without having to remember whats what after mixing it up.
I do have slight OCD though which might explain it. I haven't really done a huge amount over here yet, concentrating on cutting the hedge and getting the place tidy as i couldnt stand to look at it any more, it looked like someone had just stabbed it with a trimmer and I just HAD to sort it!
I am a strange chap sometimes ;D ;D ;D
Post by: Oddjob on September 28, 2022, 03:27:23 AM
If you fail to find it Ted I've got a couple lying around.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 28, 2022, 04:10:16 AM
What do you mean SOMETIMES???
If you fail to find it Ted I've got a couple lying around.
Thanks Ken I'll let you know if its gone to Planet Biro.
Today I will be tidying up putting removed parts onto the garage shelves into some sort of order - if I had a cat there would be no room to swing it.
Roo I can see the benefits of bags I might start the change over to reduce space - strange how you can end up with lids that fit nowt.
Post by: Laverdaroo on September 28, 2022, 01:07:52 PM
What do you mean SOMETIMES???
Well I mean roughly 23 out of the 24hrs in any day ;D ;)
If you fail to find it Ted I've got a couple lying around.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 28, 2022, 06:45:26 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 30, 2022, 02:53:26 PM
The frame strip will be next before I split the crankcase to give some room at the end of the bike ramp for engine work.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52394612731_2e9b0ebb68_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nPW5XV)engine out (https://flic.kr/p/2nPW5XV) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
Post by: Bryanj on September 30, 2022, 04:02:27 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 30, 2022, 04:13:55 PM
It was looking like that about a year ago, but going together
I was surprised at the clutch basket - it looks brand new still.
Post by: Bryanj on September 30, 2022, 04:55:04 PM
Post by: Oddjob on September 30, 2022, 09:07:30 PM
Post by: Bryanj on October 01, 2022, 07:15:26 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 01, 2022, 01:19:53 PM
Looks bad even though some is hidden behind the fork ears / headlamp brackets.
I am guessing that is an expensive fix.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52396895734_1b4ae646a0_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nQ8MC3)front forks (https://flic.kr/p/2nQ8MC3) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
Post by: Nurse Julie on October 01, 2022, 01:31:38 PM
Post by: K2-K6 on October 01, 2022, 01:35:11 PM
Usually recoverable completely through them and think you'll be impressed with how they come back.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 01, 2022, 01:36:26 PM
Send the to Philpots for re hard Chroming Ted.
Am I right in thinking it's this firm in Luton?
Any idea Julie or K2-K6 as to a ball park figure cost for the pair - thanks Ted?
.https://www.amphardchrome.co.uk/
Post by: Nurse Julie on October 01, 2022, 01:42:33 PM
Yes Ted, that's them. They collect and deliver as well. I would have thought with recent price increases, it'll be over £200 now. Turnaround is 4-6 weeks at the moment.Send the to Philpots for re hard Chroming Ted.
Am I right in thinking it's this firm in Luton?
Any idea Julie or K2-K6 as to a ball park figure cost for the pair - thanks Ted?
.https://www.amphardchrome.co.uk/
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 01, 2022, 01:47:23 PM
Post by: Nurse Julie on October 01, 2022, 01:55:54 PM
Thanks for the rough figure - presumably I have to dismantle the fork internals and just send the chromed uppers - that will be interesting as my 400 forks were already rebuilt so Ill have to figure out how to dismantle them next.They do offer a dismantle and rebuild service Ted but you will be fine taking them apart. Also send them the top fork nuts as well and they will do them.
Post by: Oddjob on October 01, 2022, 02:37:25 PM
There is also Dynasurf in Sandbach, who are slightly cheaper but won't do the top nuts for free.
To save money Honda didn't chrome the stanchion under the fork ears, it wasn't seen so why bother, hence why they all look like that, some are a LOT worse.
Put a fork back into the yokes, clamp it up and then remove the 6mm allen key hidden under where the bottom end cap goes, do it BEFORE undoing the top nut, get it loose then undo the top nut. Repeat for other fork. You sometimes need a air hammer or impact gun to get the bottom allen key to shift, I suspect yours won't be that hard as they look to have been apart before.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 01, 2022, 03:03:25 PM
The top of the column has some damage where it has been clouted with a hammer sometime in the last 50 years - luckily the top thread is okay for the nut.
Not a great picture of the top bit.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52397254698_19ea4decbf_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nQaCk5)PXL_20221001_135808627 (https://flic.kr/p/2nQaCk5) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
Post by: mickwinf on October 01, 2022, 03:32:34 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 01, 2022, 03:49:43 PM
Not sure if it's damage or how they are - both fork ears have small creases on the inside. One is well pitted with rust the offside one is not bad.
Post by: Bryanj on October 01, 2022, 05:16:25 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 01, 2022, 06:47:17 PM
I have one nos pair for No36 i will see if i can get to them for pictures Ted
Pictures should be okay if you use my e-mail Bryan or what's app if easier..
Not sure what No36 means?
Cheers Ted
I've dismantled the pair of forks without issue so I have the long bit with a spring out of the alloy cases.
Post by: Laverdaroo on October 01, 2022, 07:31:31 PM
Ive probably got some internals up for grabs if anything is knackered in there Ted, speak up and I'll have a mooch round the shed when I get home.
Forgot to say, I managed a speeding ticket on the way ho,me from yours..........76 in a 70! Miserable buggers!
Had a great day and met you n Wendy so more than worth it. How are the plants doing, your tank lookingh like the Amazon
yet? ;)
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 01, 2022, 07:34:54 PM
A long spring with a puddle of oil in the bottom?
I was expecting some sort of piston in the middle at least.
I'll have to search the net for a schematic diagram.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 01, 2022, 07:37:27 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on October 01, 2022, 07:39:08 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 01, 2022, 07:53:11 PM
I'll slow down soon when the cold weather bites & the cash flow interrupts play/progress
Post by: Laverdaroo on October 01, 2022, 07:57:32 PM
Post by: SPR on October 01, 2022, 08:23:35 PM
I'll slow down soon when the cold weather bites & the cash flow interrupts play/progress
I just move mine in to the lounge ..... one of the perks of living on your own ;D
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 01, 2022, 08:32:23 PM
I do have a small office that is heated attached to my garage but the whole bike will not fit in without major alteration. I can do small stuff in the office but not really a complete engine. I have a night storage heater in there with full wall & ceiling insulation.I'll slow down soon when the cold weather bites & the cash flow interrupts play/progress
I just move mine in to the lounge ..... one of the perks of living on your own ;D
Post by: Laverdaroo on October 01, 2022, 10:18:18 PM
Post by: Bryanj on October 02, 2022, 08:05:33 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 02, 2022, 09:09:13 AM
Ted those were new tapers on the headstock and the only way to get the bottom one out is grind it and knacker it so i would leave it in if at all possibleMy BiL has a special tool that removes them undamaged.
Post by: Spitfire on October 02, 2022, 09:53:54 AM
Cheers
Dennis
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 02, 2022, 10:28:51 AM
What or who is BiLSorry Brother-in-Law (BiL)
Cheers
Dennis
Post by: mickwinf on October 02, 2022, 11:16:57 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 02, 2022, 12:33:57 PM
What is the big bolt head with a built in tab please?
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52398322212_bb743de107_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nQg6Eu)Top casing bolts (https://flic.kr/p/2nQg6Eu) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
Post by: Oddjob on October 02, 2022, 01:17:52 PM
The one circled is one of the 6 bolt holes and uses a 6 x 100mm flanged bolt.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 02, 2022, 02:32:56 PM
Big bolt is the gearchange selector drum retaining bolt. It was used on early models to aid positive neutral selection.
The one circled is one of the 6 bolt holes and uses a 6 x 100mm flanged bolt.
Thanks Ken - a missing bolt then - no problem. Next I need to dismantle the primary gear drive as it's nothing like the 400.
Time for me to read the manual again in detail - so far I've just removed two circlips & the gearshift levers - that's it for today - need to keep the right side of Wendy on her only day off in the last 6 days.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 02, 2022, 06:37:23 PM
A bit of a wrangle getting the primary shaft out of the casing but managed in the end with minimum violence.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52400088278_9a513c4941_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nQq9DU)2nd October 2022 (https://flic.kr/p/2nQq9DU) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
Post by: Oddjob on October 02, 2022, 06:42:41 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 02, 2022, 06:45:51 PM
People seem to think that to replace the primary drive rubbers you need to remove the 3 large countersunk JIS screws but in actual fact you don't. As soon as you remove the circlip it will come apart.
Noted Ken along with your other words of wisdom.
Post by: Sesman on October 02, 2022, 08:59:12 PM
Post by: Bryanj on October 02, 2022, 09:41:02 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 02, 2022, 09:56:06 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 02, 2022, 10:12:03 PM
Less than £50 for the Kawasaki one its change it anyway
Anyone got the Kwaka part number handy please?
Post by: Oddjob on October 02, 2022, 11:04:17 PM
Post by: Sesman on October 03, 2022, 07:30:57 AM
If you do replace the chain it would be useful for you to post a similar comparison just out of interest.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 03, 2022, 08:03:29 AM
92057-1011Thanks Ken.
Post by: Oddjob on October 03, 2022, 01:21:55 PM
Fowlers has some in stock Ted. Cheap as well, sure they were dearer last time I bought a couple.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 03, 2022, 02:39:57 PM
Post by: Oddjob on October 03, 2022, 03:17:56 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 03, 2022, 05:51:55 PM
Same price as Fowlers?
£57.34 including VAT & delivery.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 03, 2022, 06:44:24 PM
The mains coded A are Green bearings, no code at the moment for (B) mains 1.
The donor casing I have to use has crank codes AABBB.
Looks like I will have fun sorting out the new combination.
Post by: Oddjob on October 03, 2022, 07:06:05 PM
That's the biggest shell allowance for the crankcase coding, A can only have had Yellow or Green from the factory, B can only have had Green or Brown. So chose the thickest of the 2 colours available and run it in carefully.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 03, 2022, 08:55:03 PM
Awaiting price for frame powder coating - I quite fancy dark brown or gloss black.
Post by: Laverdaroo on October 03, 2022, 10:48:28 PM
Post by: Oddjob on October 04, 2022, 12:04:18 AM
I've seen a couple of frames when going to pick my bits up from the powder coaters, one was Candy Blue and the other was Candy Purple like the old Fords, Aubergine I think it was called. Utterly stunning the pair of them, I was gobsmakced by how nice the blue one was, I even convinced myself to have mine done in that colour it was so nice. However it wouldn't suit the rest of the paintwork so I talked myself out of it.
I'm seriously considering having the 1300 frame done in Candy Apple Red, they did a model with a post office red frame in 2007, always liked it. Plus my 1300 is Pearlescent white with Candy red inserts so it would go really well with it.
Post by: Oddjob on October 04, 2022, 12:07:59 AM
Same price as Fowlers?
£57.34 including VAT & delivery.
£51.52 from Fowlers Ted. £48 if you can find a Kwack dealer to order one for you and you pick it up. I got mine to order me 3 so the petrol cost was split 3 ways, 15 miles there and 15 back and went on my 1300 so less than a gallon used.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 04, 2022, 10:21:52 AM
Same price as Fowlers?
£57.34 including VAT & delivery.
£51.52 from Fowlers Ted. £48 if you can find a Kwack dealer to order one for you and you pick it up. I got mine to order me 3 so the petrol cost was split 3 ways, 15 miles there and 15 back and went on my 1300 so less than a gallon used.
By the time I've driven to Borrowash found somewhere to park returning 22 mpg in my 3 litre Jeep it's cheaper to pay postage. Derby itself is not well served by Motor Cycle Dealers like they were in the 1960's.
Post by: Rozabikes Tim on October 04, 2022, 02:48:47 PM
Same price as Fowlers?
£57.34 including VAT & delivery.
£51.52 from Fowlers Ted. £48 if you can find a Kwack dealer to order one for you and you pick it up. I got mine to order me 3 so the petrol cost was split 3 ways, 15 miles there and 15 back and went on my 1300 so less than a gallon used.
By the time I've driven to Borrowash found somewhere to park returning 22 mpg in my 3 litre Jeep it's cheaper to pay postage. Derby itself is not well served by Motor Cycle Dealers like they were in the 1960's.
Ted - Remember Palin's Motors the Honda dealer?
Are Bob Minions still going?
Post by: Oddjob on October 04, 2022, 02:50:35 PM
Shop was a main Honda dealer, somewhere close to the city centre IIRC. I may recognise the name if you know it. Palins? maybe
OMG I posted that without reading Tims post. Yep, Palins is correct.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 04, 2022, 03:41:27 PM
I got my 500 parts book from a shop in Derby, I'd ridden down with the future missus and I'd bought and asked for so many parts that he asked if I was interested in buying a parts book to make it easier, cost me £5 and I still have it, it's really battered and tatty now and pages have come loose but I'd never swap it. It's even got some prices hand written against part numbers, which make me smile when I see them and compare them to todays prices.
Shop was a main Honda dealer, somewhere close to the city centre IIRC. I may recognise the name if you know it. Palins? maybe
OMG I posted that without reading Tims post. Yep, Palins is correct.
There may have been two Honda Dealers as Bob Minion was a Honda Dealer for many decades 40 (plus firstly on Park St then London Rd) as was Samways when they were on the corner of Nuns Street & Mill Street before moving onto Ashbourne Road as Pedal Cycle only dealers they closed completely about 3/4 years ago.
I used to look into Samways showroom window looking at the new Honda CX500 for sale.
I have no memory of Palins being Honda though they may have replaced Samways.
Bob Minions is still going I think it's a son of Lionel Minion or Bob's that runs the site - now Royal Enfield & Royal Alloy.
Post by: Oddjob on October 04, 2022, 03:52:20 PM
Post by: Rozabikes Tim on October 04, 2022, 05:30:01 PM
Minions were Suzuki for sure in the main. Probably some Yams and Kwaks too?
Always thought of Samways as bicycles / small mopeds etc? Probably wrong... Their slogan was "Samways for the Highways". Isn't the mind a wonder (even in the degenerated state mine is in)
Post by: Laverdaroo on October 04, 2022, 05:39:58 PM
leave it....... ;D
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 04, 2022, 06:29:26 PM
Definitely Palin's / Honda. Spent too much time and money there in the 70's and 80's.I believe like car dealers most motor cycle dealerships in the 1960s were multi-franchise until later decades. I went to Samways for Triumph spares & Mackton Motors for Aerial when they were on Osmason Ted.
Minions were Suzuki for sure in the main. Probably some Yams and Kwaks too?
Always thought of Samways as bicycles / small mopeds etc? Probably wrong... Their slogan was "Samways for the Highways". Isn't the mind a wonder (even in the degenerated state mine is in)
Google still shows Minions as Honda.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 06, 2022, 05:04:18 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 06, 2022, 05:14:55 PM
I had real trouble on my 550 removing the taper roller bearings as there is no space to get a long drift to knock them out, the bearing is the same diameter as the housing. In the end i had a mate put a bead of weld around it and it just fell out. Same problem now with Lazarus.I removed the top bearing race at the bottom of the column today. I was very lucky with there being a small gap between the shoulder of the inside of the frame and the bearing. I found a bit of metal ( steel part of magnetic kitchen door catch) I was able to insert the metal plate into the column so it was jamed on both sides in the gap. With a long drift I gave the plate a whack close to the edge. Two taps on opposite corners it came out undamaged. An NTN 30x50x14 taper bearing race.
Post by: SPR on October 06, 2022, 06:29:12 PM
I removed the top bearing race at the bottom of the column today. I was very lucky with there being a small gap between the shoulder of the inside of the frame and the bearing. I found a bit of metal ( steel part of magnetic kitchen door catch) I was able to insert the metal plate into the column so it was jamed on both sides in the gap. With a long drift I gave the plate a whack close to the edge. Two taps on opposite corners it came out undamaged. An NTN 30x50x14 taper bearing race.
A good result Ted !!
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 06, 2022, 11:59:09 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 07, 2022, 01:07:37 PM
It took longer to assemble the puller than to use it!
It was similar to the one in the link below - worked like a dream.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/403899872756
Post by: Oddjob on October 07, 2022, 02:14:42 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 07, 2022, 04:28:32 PM
Probably does not matter?
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52411306483_f6259d7a81_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nRpDre)bent bump stop (https://flic.kr/p/2nRpDre) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
Post by: SteveD CB500K0 on October 07, 2022, 06:02:21 PM
MOT failure (right Bryan?)
Oh. You don’t need an MOT
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Bryanj on October 07, 2022, 06:28:45 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 07, 2022, 07:33:27 PM
Post by: flatfour on October 07, 2022, 07:49:36 PM
It didn't fail because the bars didn't touch the tank, although I replaced it as a matter of course when I renewed the steering head bearings as the differences in available lock left and right proved an irritation after the issue was pointed out to me.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 07, 2022, 07:51:53 PM
Post by: Sesman on October 07, 2022, 08:22:27 PM
Post by: Bryanj on October 07, 2022, 09:38:54 PM
Post by: K2-K6 on October 07, 2022, 10:09:45 PM
It's usually the right one bent when the bike is parked with bars to left and "rolls" off the stand, or not fully stood onto stand securely.
You can heat it to bend back, but don't quench it afterwards.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 08, 2022, 08:28:03 AM
Im sure 400 forks are smaller diameter Ted
Different part numbers so yes Brian not the same.
With the bent steering stop, slight damage to the top of the column where the top nut fits - might be worth trying to find a better one.
Looks like the part number might be 53200-323-020B
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 08, 2022, 09:44:48 AM
They bend if the bike falls off it's sidestsnd when stationary, not particularly strong.
It's usually the right one bent when the bike is parked with bars to left and "rolls" off the stand, or not fully stood onto stand securely.
You can heat it to bend back, but don't quench it afterwards.
I only have a Plumbers Calor Gas Torch would this heat it enough or does it need Oxyacetalyne heat?
Post by: Matt_Harrington on October 08, 2022, 09:52:39 AM
They bend if the bike falls off it's sidestsnd when stationary, not particularly strong.
It's usually the right one bent when the bike is parked with bars to left and "rolls" off the stand, or not fully stood onto stand securely.
You can heat it to bend back, but don't quench it afterwards.
I only have a Plumbers Calor Gas Torch would this heat it enough or does it need Oxyacetalyne heat?
MAPP gas might do it....
Matt
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 08, 2022, 10:29:50 AM
MAPP gas might do it....
Matt
[/quote]
Taking into account the minor top damage if they are about in the UK a used replacement might be the best option.
Post by: K2-K6 on October 08, 2022, 10:33:28 AM
Roughly if it's red temp you should be able to gently tap it, yellow and it would push with a drift but doubt you'll get it to yellow with just gas.
It's pretty safe as the only risk is not getting warm enough to move.
If you don't want to tap the metal directly, then just place a ring spanner over the peg loosely and you can tap that to move it.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 08, 2022, 11:10:41 AM
That may be hot enough as you've only to get it glowing dull red to get it moving. The very tip of the blue flame is hottest and will let you target the stop easily to try it. There's at least no risk of going over temperature, just that it may soak the heat out into the rest of the structure fast enough to prevent that bit getting hot enough. You'll soon see though if it's possible (if you do it in dim light you'd see colour change more easily) and just tap it gently with a metal hammer.
Roughly if it's red temp you should be able to gently tap it, yellow and it would push with a drift but doubt you'll get it to yellow with just gas.
It's pretty safe as the only risk is not getting warm enough to move.
If you don't want to tap the metal directly, then just place a ring spanner over the peg loosely and you can tap that to move it.
Thanks for the information K2-K6 I will give it a try on Monday - I'm still left with the slight damage to the very top & a less than perfect thread.
Update: I'm going to fit a 550 column from Gary the top threads worry me. I can always play around with the original one later.
Post by: Laverdaroo on October 08, 2022, 05:43:20 PM
Saved me heaps being able to sort threads out on danaged parts.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 08, 2022, 05:47:56 PM
Get yerself a thread file Ted, fantastic bit of kit and used surprisingly often taking these old girls apart.
Saved me heaps being able to sort threads out on danaged parts.
I bought one a couple of years ago but tbh I need to go on a course to learn how to use it never mind figure out which bit is for what thread.
Post by: Laverdaroo on October 08, 2022, 05:59:42 PM
Every side is for a different pitch. Again, if you're not sure, get on You tube you'd be surprised what instruction you can find. ;) :)
Post by: flatfour on October 08, 2022, 06:58:45 PM
If that's the case, you are welcome to it if you arrange collection from me (Norfolk). Previous experience does suggest that most carriers will allow you to organise it from your side, leaving me to simply pack it and hand to the courier.
Let me know and if you need it, I'll look in my stock of spares tomorrow.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 08, 2022, 08:45:42 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 12, 2022, 07:20:21 PM
Just in the final phase of deciding which of two local firms I will use.
Still preparing the engine casings ready for painting I'll be doing the home oven bake like I did on the 400 in the next two weeks. Gasket removal is wearing me down the one under cylinder block is only half done. Onwards & upwards.
My 550 steering column arrived today from Gary 👍👍👍
Post by: Laverdaroo on October 12, 2022, 08:42:22 PM
Just ask Gary and that box of super bling he got last week, I'd have been excitedly running to the shed to see how it looked. Thats why we do it................That and we're all bonkers ;D ;D
Besides, what else would you be doing?
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 12, 2022, 09:00:58 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on October 12, 2022, 10:06:09 PM
I thould we'd rescued you from the 'Brown side' ? It appears you still hold affection for 'Plop brown' ;D
I managedto be lumbered with the cheapest caron the planet whilst at colleg whichwas a CAK brown toyota starlet. It was either referred to as 'The Brown Rocket' or simply 'The Shitzster' for short!
Do you want he nasty boys to call your bike naughty names when you're not there? They might if you paint it 'baba' brown!
Just sayin....... ;) ;D ;D
Post by: Oddjob on October 12, 2022, 11:24:06 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on October 13, 2022, 12:25:33 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 13, 2022, 07:15:37 AM
I don't know why but brown just appeals to the retro look in my brain, when Ken sees the finished bike instead of itemising what's not original K1 he will just think - crap colour it matches the rest of the bike.
I'm not thinking outside the box more outside the closet/latrine.
Post by: Oddjob on October 13, 2022, 02:09:00 PM
However I really do think an all brown bike is a poor choice, the 500T had a brown seat and it always looked like you'd shit yourself riding it. First impressions and all that.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 13, 2022, 05:36:53 PM
I like Apple Candy Red and Black. I take the frame tomorrow to the painters. Gawd knows what I will chose they have some colour samples so I might find something else or go for BB.
Post by: Laverdaroo on October 13, 2022, 05:44:09 PM
Sorry mate, only yanking yer chain like Ken said bt I'm with Ken, sorry mate. Bikes should never be brown. You do your best and have whatever lovely shade you want buddy, wait till you see the metal flake ORANGE I've gone for with a cream bottom border, youll laugh yer arse off. It looks like its come from a Baha beetle beach buggy, its that offensive ;D ;D.
Its going to look like a dodgem car so get yer ammo ready.
Enjoy the painters is always really interesting and you'll learn heaps so make sure you ask loads of questions ;) 8) 8) 8)
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 13, 2022, 05:57:37 PM
Post by: Johnny4428 on October 13, 2022, 06:17:09 PM
Post by: 3scs on October 13, 2022, 06:57:00 PM
Post by: K2-K6 on October 13, 2022, 07:26:08 PM
Nota a Bridget Bardot
[attachimg=1]
Or for balance/diversity/framework, a David Gandypants ;D
[attachimg=2]
To demonstrate framework
The bikes are lovely looking and fabulous as a whole, but having frame lighter than the paintwork just seems to draw attention to the less aesthetically appealing aspect.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 13, 2022, 07:48:37 PM
I think I got away with it on my 400 but the 500 especially if it ever gets the original silencers is a very different kettle of fish.
Post by: Oddjob on October 13, 2022, 08:13:19 PM
Ken I'm jousting I'm not offended at all - if it wasn't for the fact that the bike colour is a brownish bronze colour I would not dream of a brown frame.
I like Apple Candy Red and Black. I take the frame tomorrow to the painters. Gawd knows what I will chose they have some colour samples so I might find something else or go for BB.
IndexTripleS do a lovely candy red for a frame Ted, stunning. Based in Bingley IIRC.
Post by: K2-K6 on October 14, 2022, 09:48:51 AM
You make a good point K2-K6 about a lighter colour drawing attention to the frame.
I think I got away with it on my 400 but the 500 especially if it ever gets the original silencers is a very different kettle of fish.
Agree Ted, the 400 was a shift in style to more modern with tank and seat form being noticeably a step away from earlier traditional drawing of these 4 cylinder Honda. They seem to take on colours more easily as they originally were those very plain tank colours without real embellishment, also the pipe "display" being front predominantly.
The 4 pipers are all about the display of those pipes to give the character from that era. Obviously very personal choice to make and a little difficult to fully visualise at this stage. Hope you get what you want as it's always nice to own something that you can just look at and be very pleased with, especially given the cost and effort put into it.
I do like brown, with many of the original paint schemes on these having that colour pallet (technically the golds are really a lighter brown in colour spectrum) it's prediction of ultimate combination that's a trial and error.
Coincidentally I've recently bought a mtb cycle frame in that very dark metallic brown with manufacturer logo in black, a very nicely made aluminium welded structure that looks spectacularly good as it shows that element off so well.
Hope you can decide by the time you reach the paint shop :)
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 14, 2022, 11:31:46 AM
I even went to my brothers yesterday to look at one of his brown pedal cycles - an early Carlton - it looked pretty good.
In the end I chose the dullest 30% Gloss Black.
Oh NO, NO, NO, NO BORING BLACK has won ;D ;D ;D
It does give me more freedom of choice when it comes to painting the tank & side panels - at the moment I'm inclined to go for Black like Simons even though I love the Candy Reds.
Post by: Johnny4428 on October 14, 2022, 11:39:31 AM
Post by: taysidedragon on October 14, 2022, 12:01:57 PM
Post by: Sesman on October 14, 2022, 12:55:22 PM
Post by: Oddjob on October 14, 2022, 01:53:14 PM
technically the golds are really a lighter brown in colour spectrum
Wash your mouth out with soap and water ;D ;D ;D ;D
How very dare you!!!!!!!!
Post by: K2-K6 on October 14, 2022, 04:05:33 PM
technically the golds are really a lighter brown in colour spectrum
Wash your mouth out with soap and water ;D ;D ;D ;D
How very dare you!!!!!!!!
;D ;D yes Ken I know it must be a shock when people find out it's not real gold. A little like a pools winner's bath taps ;D
Interestingly, when you think about it these era Honda are all monochromatic originally. With black, white, chrome etc all having no "colour" and just the candy paint to offset that, giving such prominent impact to that single colour. They are really striking with this effect though.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 14, 2022, 05:07:12 PM
Next step is to strip the paint from the engine casings hopefully starting on Monday if it is not raining as I need to be outside when I apply & eventually hose it off directly into the sewer manhole.
I put on all my safety gear as the Industrial Grade stuff is nasty - then apply my first coat of Paramose paint stripper.
Despite all my safety gear when I finish an item & return to the house minus my gloves, mask, eye & face protection for a coffee I always feel itchy and end up washing my hands & face!
Probably a combination of fear sweat & my imagination. (I hope)
Post by: Johnny4428 on October 14, 2022, 05:51:28 PM
Ted, watch out for that lethal fumes and volatile concoction. Remember to read your COSHH sheets. 😇😇
Post by: SPR on October 14, 2022, 06:21:39 PM
Simon
Post by: Laverdaroo on October 15, 2022, 02:11:43 AM
"In the end I chose the dullest 30% Gloss Black.
Oh NO, NO, NO, NO BORING BLACK has won ;D ;D ;D
It does give me more freedom of choice when it comes to painting the tank & side panels - at the moment I'm inclined to go for Black like Simons even though I love the Candy Reds". Spoken li,e a true designer.
Angelic trumpets, harps and the sound of bubbling brooks, All is in balance with the universe ;D
Ted, Repeat afetr me.." I love Hondas and dont ride a Harley" ;D ;D ;D
Well done Ted, I can stop sweating ;D
As penance for my ridicule, I was informed that I recieved a speeding ticket on the M5 back from yours n Wendy's the other week, 74.9 in a 70..............miserable buggers! ;D ;D ;D
Thing is I've got 9 already but hoping some came off at the end of August, dare'nt look to check until I get home, dont want anything else to grumble about, I'm about grumped out after a vital farm system going down at 4am today, up yer get and get wet then Roo ;D
So any consolation, we're even ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 15, 2022, 03:13:21 AM
Post by: Laverdaroo on October 15, 2022, 03:20:02 AM
Pensive to look but not over worried. Might get a day out on zoom looking at lamp post, general road signage slides and a guess the speedlimit quiz for 90quid yet ;D ;D ;D 8)
Bargain ;)
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 15, 2022, 03:33:46 AM
That said I've had a few parking tickets - two on the same day one where the rear of my Mini was 1ft over the double yellows. I've only ever won one appeal when Wendy parked for over 30 mins in a drop off zone - she was dropping her Dad off when he accidentally touched the door lock button as she was helping him out of the passenger side. Key was in the ignition - it took me 40 mins to find the spare key and drive to Burton Hospital to unlock her car.
Post by: SteveD CB500K0 on October 15, 2022, 06:57:41 AM
One hopes they nicked all the 90+ lane three owners too.
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Post by: Rozabikes Tim on October 15, 2022, 07:20:12 AM
If you were clocked at 74.9 Roo, your Speedo must have been showing over 80?
One hopes they nicked all the 90+ lane three owners too.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
And the second lane cruisers. When I rule the world, they be up against a wall and bang!
Post by: SPR on October 15, 2022, 07:24:55 AM
And the second lane cruisers. When I rule the world, they be up against a wall and bang!
Glad it isn't just me ........ they are the worst - oblivious to everything and anyone
Post by: Bryanj on October 15, 2022, 09:10:34 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 15, 2022, 10:44:21 AM
Come the day of the revolution they will be first against the wall.
Post by: Laverdaroo on October 15, 2022, 02:57:36 PM
If you were clocked at 74.9 Roo, your Speedo must have been showing over 80?
One hopes they nicked all the 90+ lane three owners too.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I generally set the cruise off the sat nav as the speedos are not that great in cars. It happens, my fault, bit of a sod mind :D
I aleays think its a waste getting them in the car and dont seem to mind so much when on the bike, always put it down to an occupational hazzard ;D
Post by: K2-K6 on October 15, 2022, 03:42:15 PM
Or indeed 99.6 and just under automatic ban level ;D
Post by: Laverdaroo on October 15, 2022, 03:48:31 PM
I repeat.........Miserable buggers ;D
Post by: Oddjob on October 15, 2022, 04:55:11 PM
Post by: Nurse Julie on October 15, 2022, 05:09:43 PM
What happened to the guide line of 10% accuracy in speedos, the Police always used to say we allow 10% so you should have been ok up to 77mph.A lot of Police forces, including here in Lincs have recently done away with, or are doing away with the 10% rule. If the speed limit is 30, they say that is the maximum speed and you should be under it anyway, not 10% over.
The 10% rule was only a recommendation anyway, which is fine if its a real Poice person that catches you but all these automatic speed trap cameras can't use their judgement.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 15, 2022, 05:20:42 PM
What causes confusion is they have deducted the. 10% from the figure already. Similarly the drink drive limit is 35 milligrammes of alcohol per 100 ml of blood - but only prosecute at 40 or above - the exception might occur in the case of a fatal accident when you might blow 38 on the machine when in theory they could go for impairment due to alcohol rather than over the prescribed limit.
Post by: Bryanj on October 15, 2022, 05:41:16 PM
Used to be +or- 10% of actual speed but now is +0 to -10%.
Trucks with tachograph have to be within 2kph at anything over 20kph, which aint gonna happen when tyre wear can be 15mm
Post by: Laverdaroo on October 15, 2022, 05:49:51 PM
We'll see; like I say hopefully they'll take pity and let me sit through a day of dull slides, condesending lecturers and no fag breaks for the sum of £90 or whatever it is now. ;D
More than likely it'll be two months in a Gulag, a grand fine and a public stoning because Im not a convicted menace to society. ;D
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 15, 2022, 06:48:58 PM
C&U regs have been changed, or at least thats what they told me on my naughty boys course.
Used to be +or- 10% of actual speed but now is +0 to -10%.
Trucks with tachograph have to be within 2kph at anything over 20kph, which aint gonna happen when tyre wear can be 15mm
The law makes it a clear as mud (see below) - when I last workded in Police Prosecutions in 1990 we worked on the 10% rule - then ACPO said differently on policy introducing zero tollerance via the back door. In reality most prosecutions ignored the ACPO decision & worked on the old 10% figure. This avoided arguments over older cars that had speedometers that complied with previous Con & Use Regs.
Thing is if you pay the fixed penalty then the legality of speeding is never verified as you have admitted the offence when you pay the ticket or accept a Speed awareness course. It's not until until you engage the services of a Mr Loophole and plead not guilty at the Magistrates court that the truth emerges.
United Kingdom
The amended Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 permits the use of speedometers that meet either the requirements of EC Council Directive 75/443 (as amended by Directive 97/39) or UNECE Regulation 39.[17]
The Motor Vehicles (Approval) Regulations 2001[18] permits single vehicles to be approved. As with the UNECE regulation and the EC Directives, the speedometer must never show an indicated speed less than the actual speed. However, it differs slightly from them in specifying that for all actual speeds between 25 mph and 70 mph (or the vehicles' maximum speed if it is lower than this), the indicated speed must not exceed 110% of the actual speed, plus 6.25 mph.
For example, if the vehicle is actually traveling at 50 mph, the speedometer must not show more than 61.25 mph or less than 50 mph.
Post by: Laverdaroo on October 15, 2022, 07:05:47 PM
Aoooooooouuuuuuwww,my diabetes! ::) ;D
(insert small, angelic, cherub looking remorseful etc etc
Post by: Nurse Julie on October 15, 2022, 07:12:24 PM
😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂
(insert small, angelic, cherub looking remorseful etc etc
Post by: Oddjob on October 15, 2022, 07:38:18 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 15, 2022, 07:41:46 PM
Aparently in the print at the bottom, it reads that if you want to contest it its Crown Court only and the cost deters most i should think. Ive done it, hands up, just dont ban me cos Im lovely really and need to ride my bike as it's a soul restorative measure against the brain addling condition I suffer with my diabetes.
Aoooooooouuuuuuwww,my diabetes! ::) ;D
(insert small, angelic, cherub looking remorseful etc etc
It was always the case that you could refuse to accept the fixed penalty notice and elect for a not guilty plea at the Magistrates Court - effectly a trial at the Magistrates bench either a Stipendiary sitting alone or 3 ley Magistrates. Subsequent conviction at a Magistrates Court would be appealed at the Crown Court. I've been retired for 19 years so maybe things have changed but it is a summary offence only not an either way offence.
What can confuse folk is when they go to court it's often a Combined Court Building that houses both Magistrates Courts, Family Courts and probably now a Crown Court in the same building.
Post by: Laverdaroo on October 15, 2022, 10:07:07 PM
Sod that, I say we have a public castration for Roo.
So a fair hearing from Ken then? You can get stuffed! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 16, 2022, 09:09:22 AM
Sod that, I say we have a public castration for Roo.
So a fair hearing from Ken then? You can get stuffed! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Ken the Impaler - sorry I meant Impartial.
Post by: K2-K6 on October 16, 2022, 09:58:07 AM
Post by: Oddjob on October 16, 2022, 01:18:53 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on October 16, 2022, 03:51:44 PM
Would that be a Kanga-Roo court? ;D
I was trying my best not to write that but you gave in first and had to didnt you?............. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
'Ken The Impailer' sounds like a northern version of Game of Thrones,
From the film......
......." Na then, 'as that seen that reet 'maungy get', worrisit 'e alls is sen, Ken the podder or summut'? ..."Nah,, he's nowt, yer mean Ken The Impailer, Lord of Bling and the Rust Lands. Watch him he'll polish yer teeth aught,he's a reet bugga!'
Post by: SteveD CB500K0 on October 16, 2022, 03:53:30 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Laverdaroo on October 16, 2022, 03:55:04 PM
sozz! ;D
Post by: Oddjob on October 16, 2022, 04:55:10 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on October 16, 2022, 05:15:52 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on October 16, 2022, 05:16:19 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 22, 2022, 02:05:59 PM
Plenty to keep me busy for a couple of weeks before I paint them.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52445870420_063e2a2a67_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nUsN6b)casings before stripping paint (https://flic.kr/p/2nUsN6b) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
Post by: Laverdaroo on October 22, 2022, 02:08:49 PM
Post by: SPR on October 22, 2022, 02:25:43 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 22, 2022, 02:40:35 PM
Progress will come to a crawl as the weather gets cooler in the garage. I plan to improve on surface preparation - something you can't rush before I start up the rattle cans.
Post by: gary123 on October 22, 2022, 03:28:59 PM
Post by: Matt_Harrington on October 23, 2022, 04:30:32 PM
Matt
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 28, 2022, 02:53:56 PM
Used a different powder coater this time RPT Engineering Ltd at Somercoates DE55 4LS Cost with VAT was £190 including stands, swing arm, battery box & rear frame grab rail part.
Not as thickly applied this time so well pleased with the 30% gloss black finish.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52460287291_1968ea1893_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nVJFHV)500 K1 frame (https://flic.kr/p/2nVJFHV) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
Post by: gary123 on October 28, 2022, 03:46:51 PM
Might have been better in brown ;D
Post by: Laverdaroo on October 28, 2022, 04:53:49 PM
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Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 28, 2022, 05:06:05 PM
Looks good Ted. I like the low gloss look.
Might have been better in brown ;D
I will save the high gloss black for the Tank & Panels (eventually).
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 28, 2022, 05:12:28 PM
Beige would have looked better but loving the black Ted, well done mate
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
BEIGE how very dare you Roo it was Nut Brown !
Post by: smoothoperator on October 28, 2022, 05:31:43 PM
Post by: Oddjob on October 28, 2022, 06:31:09 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 28, 2022, 07:51:36 PM
Post by: SPR on October 28, 2022, 08:08:48 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 29, 2022, 06:39:33 PM
Spent a good 30 minutes looking for the rear brake pivot that I finally found in a takeaway box with rear brake pivot written on it. Work has ground to a standstill now until I find the return spring that was not in the box.
DS say its discontinued so another day for that search party - I have a feeling I put it somewhere too safe to find easily - keeps me fit I guess looking in the same places as before several times over.
Run out of beer so having to drink some Pineapple & Passion Fruit Cider (4%) to make do for tonight.
Post by: taysidedragon on October 29, 2022, 06:47:22 PM
Enjoy your cider, I'll have one too! 🍻
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 29, 2022, 07:48:31 PM
Is it on the brake rod? That's where I usually put it.
Enjoy your cider, I'll have one too! 🍻
No - I am looking for a circular spring I take it 46514-323-020 I assume - found the pedal & the rod definitely a job for another day I must have looked in three shelves of boxes plus umpteen big boxes on the floor four times over - at least as you progress it gets easier with fewer parts to look through..
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 29, 2022, 09:02:50 PM
That just leaves one gearshift fork spring left to find that against all logic shot into the air as I was dismantling the gearbox - at least you can buy them cheap enough from Mr Silver.
Grasshoper will sleep well tonight oh venerable sohc Master.
Post by: Bryanj on October 29, 2022, 09:52:23 PM
Post by: Sesman on October 30, 2022, 10:01:01 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 30, 2022, 11:00:12 AM
I will look again and post a better picture - the frame looks like a scrapper when you zoom in. :-\
It was mainly dust plus copperslip you can still see some of it - there not dents in the tubing its a reflection of the rubber mat!
:(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52465060778_7e664d02c5_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nWa9Hq)PXL_20221030_123343607 (https://flic.kr/p/2nWa9Hq) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
Post by: Sesman on October 30, 2022, 01:05:44 PM
Post by: Oddjob on October 30, 2022, 01:54:56 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 30, 2022, 02:02:54 PM
Don't forget to grease the inside of all those bolt tubes Ted or it's just a place for rust to start.
I will Ken, I even grease inside the headstock between the bearings and spray waxoyl inside the frame where I can - a 50 year old bike needs all the tlc I can give it - until I shuffle this mortal coil then the next custodian/owner takes over.
Post by: Oddjob on October 30, 2022, 03:46:06 PM
Post by: SPR on October 30, 2022, 07:11:35 PM
On the end of the swinging arm are 2 small vent holes, I intend to fill my swinging arm with Waxoyl and then drain it out after a couple of hours. Prevention is better than trying to repair.
That's what I have done ... the chassis tins usually come with a very small long tube to aid getting right inside
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 30, 2022, 07:30:10 PM
I attended a garage fire back in the 1979/80 where an enthusiast was carrying out some electric welding on his beautiful Vauxhall PA Cresta. The POs Waxoyl caught fire gutting the interior. The poor chap was in tears it was in that lovely two tone Silver Sage combination.
Post by: Oddjob on October 30, 2022, 08:25:31 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 31, 2022, 02:29:53 PM
Ted, remember the first thing on the line is that spring andoperating arm, you cant get it in after swingarm fittedtee shirt and video!
Fitted Tee Shirt & Video ?
Anyways the return spring I found is not the correct one - it's the old one for my 400 that I replaced.
Done another sweep of the garage and failed to find the brake pedal spring plus the stop lamp switch they are together somewhere no doubt.
Can't fit the swing arm until I find it or a replacement!
Found the rear brake switch & its spring with the ignition wiring - no trace of the brake pedal return spring afetr another fruitless 40 minutes looking in everyone of my parts boxes.......sigh.
Post by: Bryanj on October 31, 2022, 04:31:03 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 31, 2022, 05:19:30 PM
Did you put it back on the pivot arm Ted? Confusion caused by my dyslexic dumfone should be space between fitted and tee as in i got the tee shirt and in the video for that mistake! Dont think i have a spare for that but will look, trouble is i am away thurs morn till sun night so cant look till weekend after
I have no other avenues open to me at the moment - in the meantime I will look in all the same places again unless I have a light bulb moment at 3.00 am. >:(
Prime suspects are one of the Chihuahua Pups I've searched their bed & looked in all the places they might have hidden it.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 13, 2022, 11:48:51 PM
I’d replace it Ted, but before you do try to evaluate the actual wear. This photo provides a simple visual check. The one in the background is a new Kawasaki item, the one in the foreground is 17k miles.
If you do replace the chain it would be useful for you to post a similar comparison just out of interest.
A bit late in the day Phillip but this is my tank track from the 500.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52497418727_de861cd074_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nZ1ZB6)Teds primary drive chain (https://flic.kr/p/2nZ1ZB6) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
Post by: Oddjob on November 14, 2022, 12:35:14 AM
Post by: Sesman on November 14, 2022, 07:56:35 AM
Post by: Sesman on November 14, 2022, 08:19:41 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 14, 2022, 11:08:34 AM
Post by: Bryanj on November 14, 2022, 11:33:28 AM
Post by: Laverdaroo on November 14, 2022, 11:34:49 AM
Post by: Sesman on November 14, 2022, 12:34:05 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on November 14, 2022, 12:54:05 PM
Or leave it at the Cross Keys? ;D
Post by: Sesman on November 14, 2022, 01:11:51 PM
Post by: Oddjob on November 14, 2022, 01:23:15 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on November 14, 2022, 01:25:06 PM
Post by: Sesman on November 14, 2022, 02:57:17 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on November 14, 2022, 04:49:27 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 22, 2022, 11:33:27 PM
All being well I want to get it painted & baked in the oven. Spent over two hours doing a full oven clean. He- he brownie points with a hidden agenda - can't risk contamination.
Post by: Sesman on November 23, 2022, 08:23:54 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 23, 2022, 11:32:07 AM
Post by: Sesman on November 23, 2022, 12:46:50 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 27, 2022, 12:44:42 PM
Both races were fresh out of the Freezer when fitting.
Photo is after the bearings have been pulled into place - slack in the threaded bar so top is not shown as central but it was when tightening the nuts.
Probably was not needed but to help with centralisation I put some big washers in place to help with general centering of the tool - small enough to fit through the races but big enough to help.
Always nice when things go to plan.
Note to Ken the outer races are the right way up btw!
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52526719179_60cb896c46_m.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2o2BaBi)Drift set (https://flic.kr/p/2o2BaBi) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52526922340_7bb0a5f8f3_m.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2o2Cd15)Bearing press tool (https://flic.kr/p/2o2Cd15) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52526719149_e334fb9808_m.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2o2BaAM)Tool in place (https://flic.kr/p/2o2BaAM) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
.
Post by: SPR on November 27, 2022, 12:51:59 PM
Post by: Oddjob on November 27, 2022, 02:38:54 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 27, 2022, 03:01:16 PM
0I have no idea - Bryan might know the answer - it's not the original alloy plate as is obviousy been hand engraved from a blank to match the headstock stamping.
If that frame number is correct why's it got a K0 number beginning with 1 when it should be beginning with a 2 if it's a K1?
The headstock stamped frame number it's the same as the V5 1030*** first regd 23-3-1972. So what does it being a KO change assuming you are correct?
The engine number starts with a 2 - I was advised it was not the original engine by Bryan.
Post by: Oddjob on November 27, 2022, 03:12:41 PM
Post by: Bryanj on November 27, 2022, 04:49:07 PM
I engraved and fitted the vin plate as the stampings were not that "heavy" and i reckoned they would be damn near invisible whe$ powdered. I thought the 1 was K0 and 1 and the 2 was K2, which we never officialy got but Honda carried on the numerical order by year, i will look in my id book, which admitedley is US and post a pic of the page later.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 27, 2022, 10:12:06 PM
AFAIK the K1 had the frames and engine numbers starting with a 2 not a 1 which was how you could tell from the K0 version. It's possible it's had a new frame fitted at some point OR it could have had a K0 frame fitted by the factory but I'm doubtful about that, the frames were essentially the same so it's not a big issue, just a curiosity. Have you checked the frame itself for the stamped number on the headstock? to make sure they match.
The stamped headstock frame number matches the V5.
Post by: Nurse Julie on November 27, 2022, 10:23:03 PM
The V5 only reflects the numbers someone informed DVLA of. If you inform DVLA of an engine or frame change, they change the numbers on the system and the V5 is changed to reflect that. It doesn't mean the engine and/or frame numbers are the originals they left the factory with.AFAIK the K1 had the frames and engine numbers starting with a 2 not a 1 which was how you could tell from the K0 version. It's possible it's had a new frame fitted at some point OR it could have had a K0 frame fitted by the factory but I'm doubtful about that, the frames were essentially the same so it's not a big issue, just a curiosity. Have you checked the frame itself for the stamped number on the headstock? to make sure they match.
The stamped headstock frame number matches the V5.
Edit.. I should have said does it really matter in your case anyway Ted? Its not as if you are restoring a bike to standard spec or concours. My Mongrel build Millie is a 550 K3 frame with an 550 F2 engine and I don't loose any sleep over it. If it were a miss matched pair on one of my 'proper bikes' then I would worry 😁😁😁
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 27, 2022, 11:23:50 PM
You are right Julie I'm not fussed if the frame is a K0 or a K1 I'm happy that the frame is in good solid condition clearly having benefitted by Bryan getting the frame powder coated plus it's been his bike since June 2003.
If it is a K0 frame will this make any difference when obtaining parts? Are there easy ways to see the difference as regards the frame design?
Post by: Nurse Julie on November 27, 2022, 11:43:17 PM
On the riveted on frame plate the date of manufacture has been entered as 8/71.So if its got a rivited VIN plate on it it's a USA frame as we didn't have the VIN plates on UK bikes until 1976. The easiest way to tell if its a K0 or K1 frame is to show us a photo of the seat lock assembly as they are totally different K0 to K1.
You are right Julie I'm not fussed if the frame is a K0 or a K1 I'm happy that the frame is in good solid condition clearly having benefitted by Bryan getting the frame powder coated plus it's been his bike since June 2003.
If it is a K0 frame will this make any difference when obtaining parts? Are there easy ways to see the difference as regards the frame design?
Here is our K0 seat lock. The K1 has a totally different design, it's a normal plunger type lock.
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
Post by: Oddjob on November 28, 2022, 02:06:56 AM
My comment wasn’t meant to criticise the frame, it was to ask why when the title says K1 is it wearing a K0 frame, seemed odd. I’d imagine an 8/71 build date would also mean it’s a K0 rather than a K1.
It seems that K0 models are worth more as well, so a set of K0 cases may increase its value, need an engine number beginning with a 1 though Ted. The K1 engines all began with a 2. Strangely the K2 didn’t start with a 3, which you think would be the case. Both my K1 bikes have frames and engine numbers beginning with a 2 and the L reg bike has a build date of 5/72, so your frame being much earlier than that must mean a K0.
It’s not important as you say though, it’s just odd.
I had 2 sets of engine cases spare from way back in the 70-80s and both began with a 1, which is very odd as I never had or broke a K0 but I did buy quite a lot of broken engines back then but how they both ended up coming from a model that was never officially imported into the UK is strange.
I still have a set spare if you ever want to make the bike into a K0.
Post by: Bryanj on November 28, 2022, 02:34:14 AM
Julie, i fitted the vin plate and had to drill holes for it as i said above the stampings would disapear under powder coat.
Post by: Nurse Julie on November 28, 2022, 09:49:14 AM
Yes the seat lock brackets interchange, it was fitted with a later type lock as the best recovered seat i had was a later type, dont know what was original as nothing was on it.Ah yes, I've just read about the VIN tag on a previous post Bryan, sorry about that. Ted, on the V5 what date does it give as being registered in UK?
Julie, i fitted the vin plate and had to drill holes for it as i said above the stampings would disapear under powder coat.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 28, 2022, 11:57:34 AM
It needs a little fettling on one area before I fit it back on.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 28, 2022, 01:39:53 PM
Yes the seat lock brackets interchange, it was fitted with a later type lock as the best recovered seat i had was a later type, dont know what was original as nothing was on it.Ah yes, I've just read about the VIN tag on a previous post Bryan, sorry about that. Ted, on the V5 what date does it give as being registered in UK?
Julie, i fitted the vin plate and had to drill holes for it as i said above the stampings would disapear under powder coat.
The V5 shows B. Date of first registration as 23 03 1972
[B,1]Date of first registration in the UK as 23 03 1972
Post by: Oddjob on November 28, 2022, 02:10:41 PM
FWIW the later seat lock does not quite sit flat on the frame like my 400 one does.
It needs a little fettling on one area before I fit it back on.
Could be the bracket is slightly bent Ted, or of course it could also be the difference between the K0 and K1 frames coming into play. Hard to tell without testing another bracket and seeing if that does the same.
With a first reg date of March 72 it looks like the bike was what is called a "Grey Import".
Post by: Nurse Julie on November 28, 2022, 02:24:57 PM
Agreed, its a 71 build registered in UK in March 72.Therefore its either an original UK K0 or most likely a grey import.FWIW the later seat lock does not quite sit flat on the frame like my 400 one does.
It needs a little fettling on one area before I fit it back on.
Could be the bracket is slightly bent Ted, or of course it could also be the difference between the K0 and K1 frames coming into play. Hard to tell without testing another bracket and seeing if that does the same.
With a first reg date of March 72 it looks like the bike was what is called a "Grey Import".
There are a lot of differences between K0 and K1 but as you say Ted, you're building a mongrel, so it doesn't matter. If you were to try and restore it to a stock UK K0, it will cost a fortune. It also shouldn't have a VIN plate, but I can see Bryan's reason for fitting one.
Post by: Oddjob on November 28, 2022, 03:04:26 PM
Officially Honda never imported the K0, I asked back in the late 70s when on a course at Honda and spoke to a few of the guys there, they said that Honda only ever officially imported 3 500K0s. One black, one brown and one gold, these were all for press testing. One was written off whilst on test, one was scrapped (no one knew why) and one was sold to a member of staff, they seemed to think it was the brown one. So unless yours is that one (and with that frame number it's almost impossible, the first ones imported would have had very low frame numbers I'd imagine) it's not meant to be here and was clearly meant for the European market. However interest in the 500 back then was high so some dealers imported some from contacts on the continent and hence were called grey imports. There won't have been that many imported like that as expense for one would not have made it commercially viable especially as the K1 was already on it's way. A genuine UK first registered 500K0 is a bit of a rarity so I'd be proud of that, not many about especially after all these years.
Post by: Sesman on November 28, 2022, 06:26:28 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on November 28, 2022, 06:31:28 PM
Restore it to original Ted….feel the pain.😉
;D ;D
Post by: Nurse Julie on November 28, 2022, 06:35:17 PM
Don't do it Ted 😁😁😁😁, it'll feel like a punishment to you as most of the UK model bits are unobtainable and if you can find them, there will be far to many zeros on the end of the price to make it worth your while, you'd have to have the frame stripped and re painted for a start 🤣🤣🤣.Restore it to original Ted….feel the pain.😉
;D ;D
Post by: Oddjob on November 28, 2022, 06:40:19 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on November 28, 2022, 06:41:07 PM
Post by: Oddjob on November 28, 2022, 06:42:54 PM
Post by: Nurse Julie on November 28, 2022, 06:45:45 PM
Are you seriously saying that a powder coated frame wouldn't be acceptable on a restoration because it's not the way it was from Honda? That would open a HUGE can of worms if that's the case.Noooo Ken, I'm not saying that, I didn't imply that and I didn't mean that, we have all our frames powder coated. But Ted went for a more satin finish IIRC which would be a no no.
Post by: Oddjob on November 28, 2022, 06:51:16 PM
IMO, we place far too much emphasis on it being exactly like it was when it came out of the factory and frankly that's virtually impossible, unless you've got one stored in a packing crate somewhere there will always be something that's not original fitment. If it works, look right and goes and stops right that's good enough for me.
Post by: Nurse Julie on November 28, 2022, 06:55:59 PM
Post by: Sesman on November 28, 2022, 07:14:20 PM
Press on though. Personally I favour the satin look, but fully appreciate it wouldn’t suit the ‘original’ restorers code. And so it shouldn’t.
Post by: K2-K6 on November 28, 2022, 07:18:34 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on November 28, 2022, 07:20:26 PM
Post by: Sesman on November 28, 2022, 07:21:55 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 28, 2022, 07:29:41 PM
Post by: Sesman on November 28, 2022, 07:35:34 PM
Come on, Ted. Looking forward to the next instalment. Good to see you have sorted the head races.
Post by: Nurse Julie on November 28, 2022, 07:46:09 PM
I should have ignored everyone here - gone for Nut Brown as I wanted to - to hell with originality.😤😤😤😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂
Post by: Sesman on November 28, 2022, 07:52:56 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 28, 2022, 07:59:25 PM
They will all be painted black.
Post by: taysidedragon on November 28, 2022, 08:06:42 PM
Yeah but it's black, does that really matter. We do our yokes in satin and I'm fairly sure they came in gloss for instance or vice versa. We have repaints where we have the stripes painted on and not transfers, we use stainless spokes instead of crap normal steel ones that rust for fun, loads of examples like that.
IMO, we place far too much emphasis on it being exactly like it was when it came out of the factory and frankly that's virtually impossible, unless you've got one stored in a packing crate somewhere there will always be something that's not original fitment. If it works, look right and goes and stops right that's good enough for me.
I'll drink to that! 👍🍻
Post by: Sesman on November 28, 2022, 08:19:36 PM
Post by: Sesman on November 28, 2022, 08:22:14 PM
Post by: taysidedragon on November 28, 2022, 08:24:48 PM
I am doing so. A very nice Jamesons Black Barrel…lovely.
Slainte Mhath!
Post by: Laverdaroo on November 28, 2022, 08:26:23 PM
Oops, that’s not a scotchWHISKY!!!
Bloody scotch, are you a Sherman?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Sesman on November 28, 2022, 08:37:33 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 28, 2022, 08:46:28 PM
Post by: Sesman on November 28, 2022, 08:53:03 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on November 28, 2022, 09:06:01 PM
I'm on my second Goblet of Black Cactus Schnapps.Goblet, that instils a great mental image of you Ted, supping that
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 28, 2022, 09:21:04 PM
Many folk think it makes everything taste metallic.
Post by: Laverdaroo on November 28, 2022, 09:41:12 PM
She did swear by them though...
Post by: Oddjob on November 29, 2022, 02:15:32 PM
It may be good enough for you Ken but not for everyone.
When I said it looks right I meant does it still look original, would anyone not an anal expert comment on something not fitted as standard?
If you've just spent the last year or so restoring a bike to OE spec and someone came along and started to rip it to bits how would that make you feel. Comments like, Those tyres are wrong, should be Bridgestones, the master cylinder wasn't quite that shape, is that a copy, you've repainted the handlebar switchgear and the colour of the letters is the wrong shade of red etc. You'd quite rightly tell them that all that doesn't matter so long as it looks the part, tyres were changed because new tyres work where the Bridgestones were just ditch finders.
I prefer to build mine so they look original but I don't like to repeat the mistakes Honda made in the first place, rear dampers that worked like Pogo sticks, it was common in those days for the speedo or tacho needle to bounce around like mad, would we settle for that now? Do we have to accept a wiring loom where all the power runs through one fuse, if that blows you stop. I had a mate back in the late 70s who was killed by just this thing happening, fast lane of the motorway, doing 70 or so, not speeding, just tootling along like you do, fuse blew for some reason, we never found out why, he suddenly slows as the bike loses power, car behind doesn't expect it and hits him up the rear end at around 100mph, catapulting him off the bike, his helmet flew off and he landed on his face, ripped most of his face off, he was just 17. His dad had to identify him in the morgue and it broke him, first of our gang to die and to this day I still get upset remembering him and the waste of that life for such a simple reason. Car driver got off BTW even though he was speeding it was deemed an accident.
I think it's arrogant of anyone to try and inflict their ways of restoring on anyone, so it might be the wrong black, who cares, it's black. Would you really notice if it was next to you at the lights? BTW Ted, we'd notice a nut brown frame, just saying ;D ;D However if Ted had done the frame nut brown I might not have agreed with the choice but I'd certainly have admired the will to say "sod it, it's my bike I'll do it so I like it, if you don't, well hard luck"
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on December 05, 2022, 07:54:22 PM
Just painted my top fork bridge clamps - I'm happy with the outcome - less than perfect like the owner - but good enough for me.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52545056676_5d62147d50_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2o4e9H3)fork clamps (https://flic.kr/p/2o4e9H3) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
Post by: Laverdaroo on December 05, 2022, 08:11:46 PM
looking at that top clamp on 'the net' last night, it's clear that the PG who had my 'heap' had cut the middle out to make two separate clamps. :o He's then ground them down badly, like a threepenny bit and tried to hide it with matt paint......eeesh! ;D Theyre smaller than the lower half of the clamp they sit on he's taken that much off........Lookslike I've doneit ;D ;D
I knew they were for the bin but hadn't offered them up until last night when I pulled the bag out to have a look. They were chucked in the 'to fettle later' bin. As I'm still waiting for the frame from the coaters............Covid at their end................I said I'd hang on ;) :o I'm just prepping all the faff bits like this and sorting switches and the like...
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on December 05, 2022, 09:20:54 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on December 05, 2022, 09:28:59 PM
I must be bonkers! ;D ;D ;D
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on December 05, 2022, 09:35:17 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on December 05, 2022, 09:36:48 PM
You're very right though. very right! :D
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on December 05, 2022, 09:43:08 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on December 05, 2022, 09:53:10 PM
Post by: Oddjob on December 05, 2022, 10:30:09 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on December 05, 2022, 10:39:53 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on December 19, 2022, 08:10:24 PM
Thanks for the tip Allankelly & the link. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/303960372602
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52574242150_e20104026d_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2o6NJwS)500 LED headlamp (https://flic.kr/p/2o6NJwS) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
Post by: Sesman on December 19, 2022, 08:12:56 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on December 19, 2022, 08:29:38 PM
I'd say yours is spot on mate and an easy win too, ;) :)
Post by: SPR on December 19, 2022, 08:36:34 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on December 19, 2022, 08:42:01 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on December 19, 2022, 08:47:55 PM
Get you! ;) :D
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on December 19, 2022, 10:20:00 PM
\halo, how posh!
Get you! ;) :D
Not so much posh as Christmas themed - Halo / Angel. ;D ;D ;D
Post by: Laverdaroo on December 19, 2022, 11:42:52 PM
Post by: paul G on December 20, 2022, 12:22:56 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on December 20, 2022, 02:41:14 PM
Does that have DOT (DOT approved) stamp on the lamp, if not you might struggle to get it through the MOT if it needs one.
Yes it has the DOT SAE E9 stamp on the outer edge it has Osram LED's similar cheaper ones do not.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on December 20, 2022, 03:06:11 PM
It's much warmer today so I've been doing some work on both lower fork legs cleaning out the threads & the sediment inside the legs.
I need to do some more polishing on the right fork leg as ther left one is much shinier at the moment.
Once I am happy with the polishing of the fork legs I can get the front suspension fitted with a view to fitting the front wheel for better frame stability.
When the cold weather returns I can do some soldering on the Pilot light loom now I have some better lamp holders & rubber shroud fitting thingys.
Post by: Oddjob on December 20, 2022, 03:07:43 PM
Post by: Oddjob on December 20, 2022, 03:09:15 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on December 20, 2022, 03:32:00 PM
Your not thinking of doing the double disc conversion Ted? Makes the front end look more balanced IMO and of course braking is improved.
Sounds like an expensive alteration Ken.
Post by: Oddjob on December 20, 2022, 03:37:46 PM
For me it's a good investment, if it stops you quicker it could just avoid an accident and those can be very expensive.
Post by: Laverdaroo on December 20, 2022, 07:03:00 PM
I have a spare set of 550 fork lowers, and some 500 sliders that have just been re ground at Philpots and faultless, going on ebay after crimbo but if you need anything you have first dibbs Ted, goes without saying ;)
Post by: Oddjob on December 20, 2022, 07:13:42 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on December 20, 2022, 07:26:39 PM
I have all the 'fitting joy' and thinking time to come. Looking forward to it ;)
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on December 21, 2022, 01:47:14 AM
Depends on what you already have Ted, you need a spare caliper and disc, a set of 550 sliders, a longer set of disc bolts and another part of the brake line. Not that expensive if you already have some of these. There's a little work involved as well adapting the speedo drive.
For me it's a good investment, if it stops you quicker it could just avoid an accident and those can be very expensive.
I have no spare caliper,disc or 550 sliders not too woried about the look / accident risk for the mileage I am likely to cover. The Brembro pads certainly feel good so I'll keep that bit original.
Thinking about improvements / mods from the original has made me re-think the exhuast situation. I was minded to fit the original four pipe system to keep the period look and gloss over the cost. That got me thinking about the owners who went from twin pipe to 4 into 1 systems as they performed & sounded better.
Just thought I would put that out there for added public humiliation to add to the Nut Brown saga - I still have regrets about settling for boring black.
Post by: Bryanj on December 21, 2022, 04:07:43 AM
Post by: SPR on December 21, 2022, 05:28:45 AM
Thinking about improvements / mods from the original has made me re-think the exhuast situation. I was minded to fit the original four pipe system to keep the period look and gloss over the cost. That got me thinking about the owners who went from twin pipe to 4 into 1 systems as they performed & sounded better.
Just thought I would put that out there for added public humiliation to add to the Nut Brown saga - I still have regrets about settling for boring black.
I think after all the time and work you are putting in .... the original style system would be icing on the cake :)
Post by: Oddjob on December 21, 2022, 07:12:28 AM
For best performance though the OE system takes some beating, sure the Yoshi performed better but only at the top end of the rev range, it lagged at mid range though, the Piper sounded better but it also had a hole in mid range, the 4 into 4 system looks awesome, it performs excellently and it just suits the look of the bike better.
For me it’s the exhausts that make the 500 so appealing, there’s just something about them that floats my boat in a BIG way.
Post by: Matt_Harrington on December 21, 2022, 08:33:11 AM
Purists look away now - my DS Chrome finished plastic headlamp bowl & aftermaket rim kit arrived today so I was able to fit a neat Land Rover LED headlamp unit without any alterations.
Thanks for the tip Allankelly & the link. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/303960372602
Ted, nice h/lamp option. I want to build a bobber from many old Triumph 3T bits I have and this would fit the bill perfectly. Will look good on your 500.
Post by: Sesman on December 21, 2022, 09:18:35 AM
A work mate back in 1978/79 would give me a lift on his black 500 from York to Leeds. His was equipped with a Marvin 4:1. To my young ears it sounded mint, it really howled at the top end, though he did complain of flat spots. He eventually changed back to standard. And I agree with Ken, the original 4 pipe appearance is best for the standard bike.
I’d even thought about putting 4 pipes on the F2, but the cost was prohibitive for an uncertain and unconventional appearance. I’ve gone for Dekelvic which is ok, but no substitute for standard.
Speaking of standard pipes, my CB175 pipes rotted out in 1977. I tried all kinds of arrangements, but in order to make it run properly I eventually had to dig deep for standard replacements.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on December 21, 2022, 09:49:55 AM
Post by: SteveD CB500K0 on December 21, 2022, 09:52:25 AM
My mum always said she could hear me from the next village.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: K2-K6 on December 21, 2022, 10:41:10 AM
A friend drag raced a 750 years ago for which we tried sets of pipes, easily the fastest through initial phase and rpm range was a 4:1 with long thin primary pipes into short, stubby big bore less restricted "silencer" this for road orientated motor tune and not a really high revving race motor.
It takes alot of combustion volume/rpm to really make use of big bore short primary "headers" and mostly way outside capacity on bikes of this era.
Post by: Sesman on December 21, 2022, 01:55:14 PM
I guess the market is to small for Dekelvic to make a SS four tail pipe system.
Yes, Ted. Too small market for meaningful competition.
Post by: Sesman on December 21, 2022, 02:00:02 PM
I put Dunstall “silencers” on my CB175 in 1975(ish).
My mum always said she could hear me from the next village.
Yes, I know all about that. I used some cheap reverse cone megaphones from that outfit in Rochdale- Unity Ill equipped or something like that. The noise was horrific. My mum asked me to coast or push the bike the last hundred yards after 10pm. I was able to reach back and place my boots over the ends so rarely bothered.
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Post by: Bryanj on December 21, 2022, 04:29:12 PM
Post by: Sesman on December 21, 2022, 05:10:02 PM
I recall trying to pass from France to Switzerland in about 1980. We were sat patiently waiting for the border guard to put down his paper and coffee. While we waited a guy screamed up on a Yamaha 350 c/w expansion pipes. The BG dropped his paper and spilled his coffee in his haste to stop this hooligan entering Antiseptic land (the Swiss had and has very strict noise abatement laws), but before he could scream halt(in Swiss) the lad neatly navigated the barriers and sped off in a cloud of two stroke smoke. I got the distinct impression it was a regular occurrence. It’s the only funny thing I’ve witnessed in Switzerland. The guy who should have been stood at the barrier was having a leak and returned to a very red faced and loud colleague.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on December 30, 2022, 07:04:22 PM
Used the light green then the grey little discs & finished up with some blue paste on my buffing wheel to see how they look spending just 5-10 mins with the buffing wheel using the lightest pressure as I don't want a fork leg in my face.
Clearly there are some deepish marks on the legs after 50 years but to hell with getting out every little imperfection - I will polish them some more but tbh I see the marks as a sort of Patina of age.
..
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52595738482_8357b90843_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2o8GUDh)500 fork legs (https://flic.kr/p/2o8GUDh) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
Post by: Malc (Malvis) on January 15, 2023, 04:24:59 PM
Post by: royhall on January 15, 2023, 05:21:52 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on January 17, 2023, 02:25:22 PM
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52632263747_1f325c1e7d_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2obW7ke)PXL_20230117_092117239 (https://flic.kr/p/2obW7ke) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52632263712_9e60d4f007_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2obW7jC)PXL_20230117_140852031 (https://flic.kr/p/2obW7jC) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
Post by: Oddjob on January 17, 2023, 02:56:31 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on January 17, 2023, 03:11:25 PM
Looking ok that Ted.
Thanks Ken its a AEG fan oven. ;D ;D ;D
Post by: K2-K6 on January 17, 2023, 03:23:42 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on January 17, 2023, 03:38:50 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on January 17, 2023, 06:46:39 PM
Post by: Matt_Harrington on January 17, 2023, 06:55:14 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on January 17, 2023, 10:30:16 PM
All was back to normal in the kitchen when she arrived home.
I decided not to mention I had been baking.🤫
Post by: Laverdaroo on January 18, 2023, 06:59:00 PM
Post by: Oddjob on January 18, 2023, 10:24:29 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on January 19, 2023, 06:53:34 PM
Post by: Oddjob on January 19, 2023, 09:36:16 PM
As you know I dropped off a load of parts at the ceramic coaters on Wednesday, as one part wasn't mine I asked him to quote me for just those parts.
In the bag were the carb bracket where all the carbs mount, the 2 small lifter arms that go onto the rod and the 4 lifter boxes that sit inside the bank of carbs and rise when the throttle opens. All done is silver and lacquered over afterwards, cost was £50 to 7 bits. Got to be honest and say it was far more than I expected and I wasn't at all pleased. Especially as I had 2 of the carb brackets myself to be done, 6 exhaust clamps and 24 exhaust collets, 2 Brembo radial calipers, 2 1300 wheels plus a few other small pieces, gonna need a new mortgage if it's as expensive as I fear.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on January 27, 2023, 05:17:10 PM
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52651950287_3526d49d78_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2odF1sk)500 fender inside (https://flic.kr/p/2odF1sk) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
.
Done some cleaning of my UK rear fender - chrome is acceptable - underside painted after cleaning with cold galvanizing spray with light finish with engine paint.
Front forks now assembled with new seals etc & 160 ml of (SAE 10W) light fork oil in each unit.
Next need to assemble the various front fork clamps in the right order for the final fit.
Post by: Oddjob on January 27, 2023, 05:22:04 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on January 27, 2023, 05:27:45 PM
Where's the side bolt holes Ted? I can't seem them or the brackets they are on.
Never noticed that oh bugger they have been cut off - I'll see what DK will do about it if anything!!
Now I look I can see they have been chopped off all the way along - I feel well foolish for not noticing before I bought them & polished them up a little with Solvol polish,
Post by: Oddjob on January 27, 2023, 05:55:27 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on January 27, 2023, 06:05:01 PM
How much did DS charge you for that?
This is the parts description.
"Mudguard is in good clean solid condition decent chrome finish with minor marks blemishes only one mounting bolt is broken off in hole see pictures. 80100 323 670XW."
Post by: Seabeowner on January 27, 2023, 07:03:53 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on January 27, 2023, 11:24:09 PM
I trawled through most of the rear fenders they had in their shop concentrating on the number plate mounting points - missing the obvious lack of side mounts.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on January 28, 2023, 10:23:49 PM
Pretty sure it will end up me posting the item back as they have sent a postage label.
Post by: SPR on January 29, 2023, 02:53:04 AM
Feeling upbeat today DK will refund me no problem - been asked to wait until Monday before I return the fender as they want to check if there is a replacement in the pipeline. They will arrange a simultaneous delivery / collection.
Pretty sure it will end up me posting the item back as they have sent a postage label.
Well that is a result - I'm sorry I pointed you to the wrong thing !! Alls well that ends well
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on January 29, 2023, 01:29:52 PM
Feeling upbeat today DK will refund me no problem - been asked to wait until Monday before I return the fender as they want to check if there is a replacement in the pipeline. They will arrange a simultaneous delivery / collection.
Pretty sure it will end up me posting the item back as they have sent a postage label.
Well that is a result - I'm sorry I pointed you to the wrong thing !! Alls well that ends well
Not your fault Simon I need a pair of eyeballs like Ken.
Are you back home now?
Post by: SPR on January 29, 2023, 03:50:57 PM
Not your fault Simon I need a pair of eyeballs like Ken.
Are you back home now?
Yep -just
Post by: Oddjob on January 29, 2023, 06:56:06 PM
I have no life ;D ;D
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on January 29, 2023, 10:40:35 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on January 30, 2023, 10:10:32 AM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: K2-K6 on January 30, 2023, 10:31:38 AM
I believe unconditional criticism toward someone that offers intricate details that are pertinent ordinarily display a lack of knowledge in the person delivering that critical view. It follows that the person without that knowledge feels vulnerable and insecure in the need to ridicule the one with knowledge.......from psychology in workplace environment study 8)
Detail is an important part of technical forum and quite well delivered, recieved on here.
My tuppence w'th ;D
Post by: Laverdaroo on January 30, 2023, 10:35:24 AM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Johnny4428 on January 30, 2023, 10:58:49 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on January 30, 2023, 11:36:54 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on February 02, 2023, 04:46:41 PM
As the old front indicators were of different stem lengths with one being very rusty I bough myself a pair of aftermarket ones that are 30 mm longer.
Never mind the wind resistance just look at the King Charles stance.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52665240839_05e5be4819_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oeR8gM)Hello Big Ears (https://flic.kr/p/2oeR8gM) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
Only just spotted that two of our dogs muscled in on the picture !
Post by: Sesman on February 02, 2023, 05:01:29 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on February 02, 2023, 05:03:24 PM
Coming on Ted. I like this ‘ears’. Bottom yoke and fork stanchions look really well finished. Phil pots work wonders don’t they….it was philpots wasn’t it?
Yes Phil it was Philpots who saved the forks - the new handlebars should be here by the weekend then I can start fitting the mudguard & front brakes.
Post by: Laverdaroo on February 02, 2023, 06:48:16 PM
I rather like the ears (thumbs up emoji). I wonder if you tilt them one way or the other you might get a bit of a 'chord' out of them as they catch the wind. Bit like a single church organ pipe ;D
Forks look the biz mate, nicey nice nice 8)
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on February 05, 2023, 03:46:19 PM
Bars just in place nothing tightened up yet any lack of symmetry is a combination of camera angle & steering not being dead straight.
Put the earrings on & face to see how it will look. 8) 8) 8)
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52670411081_b030d438bf_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ofiCcT)first mock up (https://flic.kr/p/2ofiCcT) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
Post by: K2-K6 on February 05, 2023, 04:43:26 PM
I think it looks good anyway :)
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on February 05, 2023, 05:01:06 PM
Post by: andy120t on February 05, 2023, 06:24:53 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on February 05, 2023, 07:41:27 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on February 05, 2023, 08:28:37 PM
Post by: Oddjob on February 05, 2023, 11:45:20 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on February 06, 2023, 01:53:17 AM
One is for waste oil etc the 5 gallon one.
One for Petrol 1 gallon - it's over 40 yrs old.
One for Diesel 2 gallons.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on February 06, 2023, 03:13:21 AM
That's like my toolbox..Curver?... But mine has red clips to secure the lid.I think it's a Curver copy I've had it for a good 40 years.
Update it is a Curver !
Post by: Oddjob on February 06, 2023, 03:23:01 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on February 06, 2023, 09:07:33 AM
Bike looks like Pat Butcher Ted. ;D ;D
Nicely summed up Ken I was thinking Bet Lynch so I've missed the mark a tad.
Post by: Laverdaroo on February 06, 2023, 09:41:07 PM
I have three cans.
One is for waste oil etc the 5 gallon one.
One for Petrol 1 gallon - it's over 40 yrs old.
One for Diesel 2 gallons.
That petrol is probably knackered by now Ted I'm sure the stuff has a shorter shelf life than that ;);D
Post by: K2-K6 on February 06, 2023, 09:50:56 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on February 06, 2023, 09:52:10 PM
It's what I use for cleaning engine parts - SUL no expense spared!I have three cans.
One is for waste oil etc the 5 gallon one.
One for Petrol 1 gallon - it's over 40 yrs old.
One for Diesel 2 gallons.
That petrol is probably knackered by now Ted I'm sure the stuff has a shorter shelf life than that ;);D
Post by: Laverdaroo on February 06, 2023, 11:43:40 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on February 24, 2023, 05:15:05 PM
As a result I have found that the fork seal that are 35 x 48 x 11 has moved up on one side towards the circlip - there is what seems a big gap as though there ought to be a spacer between the seal & the circlip. When I fitted the seals they were flush at the bottom what's going on here?
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52708481016_caffe19e8a_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oiEK55)500 fork seal (https://flic.kr/p/2oiEK55) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
Post by: Johnny4428 on February 24, 2023, 05:45:56 PM
Maybe an attempt to get worn seals to seal?
Post by: Bryanj on February 24, 2023, 05:52:56 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on February 24, 2023, 05:57:37 PM
Wonder if it’s bad fitting Ted? Cant see that it would shift touching against stanchion. Assuming they are correct seals for the job.
Maybe an attempt to get worn seals to seal?
They were new seals of the correct size for a 500 - they shifted when I was dismantling the forks -there was a substatntial gap 2-3 mm between the circlip in the groove when they were fitted fully down against the shoulder earlier in the year.
Bryan might be onto something about an alternative seal size being fitted.
Post by: Johnny4428 on February 24, 2023, 06:02:17 PM
Post by: Oddjob on February 24, 2023, 06:06:22 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on February 24, 2023, 06:14:14 PM
According to parts book the seal should be 35 x 48 x 11, and from what has already told me that's what's printed on the seal. I do seem to recall some seals having a metal spacing washer fitted under the seal, snug fit inside the slider but bore too big for it to ever touch the stanchion. Maybe that's what this needs. After checking my spare sliders I can confirm the shelf the seal sits on is 14.5mm from bottom of shelf to circlip recess, so if the seal is only 11mm that's a 3.5mm gap allowing the seal to move up and down. Doesn't seem a good idea to allow it to do that.
I agree Ken that is the seal I have 35 x 48 x 11 - the old seal was binned so I can't compare it now but 100% certain there were was no spacer fitted.
Post by: Oddjob on February 24, 2023, 06:22:37 PM
You'd need to enlarge the hole from 32mm to say 37mm to give it a small clearance so it can't touch the stanchion, saying that they are nylon so wouldn't really harm it if it did but better if it didn't. Next time fit the washers under the seal, if you ever do them again that is.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on February 24, 2023, 06:24:27 PM
I have messaged them for details of the meaning 13/14.5 in the description.
https://pyramid-parts.com/products/fosmain?variant=40165627207
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on February 24, 2023, 07:50:42 PM
Sorry Ted, certainly wasn’t suggesting you had fitted badly! Thought maybe there had been a previous hammer wielding monkey at it. 🤣🤣
I didn't take it that way the top of the fork legs have plenty of marks on the top edges where seals have been removed over the decades.
Post by: mickwinf on February 25, 2023, 08:53:53 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on February 25, 2023, 09:49:47 AM
I have done a few fork seals and have always wondered about the gap, i tap the seal down only so the top is level with the circlip groove rather than to the bottom of the hole, wonder which is correct?
I am hoping the seal I have found at Pyramid cures this issue I am waiting for a reply. I will post the outcome when I get a reply.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on February 26, 2023, 06:45:31 AM
Post by: Johnny4428 on February 26, 2023, 10:45:00 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on February 26, 2023, 12:34:18 PM
Post by: Oddjob on February 26, 2023, 02:18:47 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on February 26, 2023, 03:09:54 PM
Pyramid ones may be better value and maybe just as good.
Just waiting for a reply as to what they mean about the depth description 13/14.5 mm I will ring them if my online enquiry grows hairs. I have used the Pyramid seals previously they seem a decent quality finish.
Post by: Oddjob on February 26, 2023, 04:20:04 PM
Post by: 3scs on February 26, 2023, 06:28:32 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on February 27, 2023, 02:15:57 PM
I’ve fitted these seals to my 550 they’re 13mm deep instead of 11mm so fills that gap up by another 2mm
The listing does not give much detail are they double lipped with the springs fitted top & bottom?
Post by: 3scs on February 27, 2023, 06:24:13 PM
not sure what you mean by spring top and bottom but they were the same as the old ones I took out apart from the extra 2mm in depthI’ve fitted these seals to my 550 they’re 13mm deep instead of 11mm so fills that gap up by another 2mm
The listing does not give much detail are they double lipped with the springs fitted top & bottom?
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on February 27, 2023, 06:46:36 PM
Post by: Nurse Julie on February 27, 2023, 06:48:56 PM
The OEM seals are double spring. A dust spring on the top side and the oil spring on the underside.not sure what you mean by spring top and bottom but they were the same as the old ones I took out apart from the extra 2mm in depthI’ve fitted these seals to my 550 they’re 13mm deep instead of 11mm so fills that gap up by another 2mm
The listing does not give much detail are they double lipped with the springs fitted top & bottom?
Post by: 3scs on February 27, 2023, 09:21:55 PM
oh I see never too old to learn 🤓The OEM seals are double spring. A dust spring on the top side and the oil spring on the underside.not sure what you mean by spring top and bottom but they were the same as the old ones I took out apart from the extra 2mm in depthI’ve fitted these seals to my 550 they’re 13mm deep instead of 11mm so fills that gap up by another 2mm
The listing does not give much detail are they double lipped with the springs fitted top & bottom?
Post by: Oddjob on February 28, 2023, 03:33:32 PM
The difference in the stated depth is because they state the depth of the body of the seal at 13mm but they also include the depth including the upper lip of the seal, the part that touches the fork stanchion.
They are double lipped but no springs are visible at all, they appear to have sealed the springs inside the seal body, they weigh a lot more than standard seals due to this. I can expose one of the springs if I peel back part of the the rubber seal lip but the upper one is completely enclosed. Small packet of rubber grease included.
They look really good, I'd say go for them.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on February 28, 2023, 05:41:13 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on June 08, 2023, 12:24:12 PM
Gear shafts in place in the upper engine casing waiting for a pair of Brown mains from DS - Plastigauged existing Big End shells & all good.
Red assembly lube needs cleaning out - it is remnants from when the old crank was in place last year.
Did something to my lower back last week whilst working in the back garden & pond so presently being sensible until my back pain subsides - I'm going to see if I can hang by my arms from the garage loft hatch to help ease the pressure on my back - it used to work when I was younger.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52958882182_02375e502c_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oFN7By)500 upper casing (https://flic.kr/p/2oFN7By) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
Post by: Matt_Harrington on June 08, 2023, 12:31:24 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on June 08, 2023, 12:35:04 PM
Perhaps hand the engine from your ankles? :o
I'll need a pair of Manakles to do that Matt - yet more expense! ;D ;D ;D
Post by: K2-K6 on June 08, 2023, 01:29:34 PM
We have a little outside gym near us, set out in a nice parkland, that has overhead bars plus other parallels etc to do this on. A very simple but useful set that I've used for years. I think it's quite beneficial Ted.
Alternatively, I here tell there's various "personal service" providers that will perhaps offer a stricter regime ;D you have to be a previous television presenter or some such to gain entry though, or so I've heard :)
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on July 01, 2023, 02:01:45 PM
Hondabond applied thinly & tube from 2022 was still nice and spreadable.
All bolts tightened as per manual. Used existing bolts for under the engine - new SS normal bolts for the top as they are vissible.
Despite new bearings, drive chain & rubbers primary drive shaft fitted into place without too much force being needed....phew.
Before I fitted the primary drive shaft when I had just fitted the lower casing bolts I packed the primary hub with a folded tea towel to prevent the starter clutch from separating from the drive hub when rotating the cases.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53014690911_f747d5322a_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oLJ9B2)500 casing progress (https://flic.kr/p/2oLJ9B2) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
Post by: davidcumbria on July 01, 2023, 02:31:46 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on July 01, 2023, 02:50:59 PM
Excellent. Well done Ted. One of bottom smaller bolts next to the alternator has a bendable wire guide. No problem to fit it later.
I know the clip you mean - thanks - I will look for it as it was not attached to my bolt storage system with the washer - cardboard with holes in marking the layout of all the bolts for top & bottom cases.
Just fitted the bearing lock plate - mine had no washer just the 6 mm bolts - neither do I have the oil guide plate (item 3) photo E15 Page 34 ish - I assume that is for early models?
Post by: Bryanj on July 01, 2023, 02:58:16 PM
Good work, told you the shaft was no problem mate
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on July 01, 2023, 03:24:59 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on July 01, 2023, 11:12:21 PM
Is that the one goes at bottom inside clutch cover Ted, if so it was fitted to the ones after ther gearchange detent mod as in the buleletins.I don't have the ball bearing in my gear shift tumbler - does that mean I should have the oil guide inside the clutch - can't s see a hole for the screw in my casing?
Good work, told you the shaft was no problem mate
Post by: Oddjob on July 02, 2023, 04:20:40 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on July 02, 2023, 11:37:39 AM
Is it an important modification ?
Post by: Bryanj on July 02, 2023, 12:23:27 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on July 02, 2023, 05:50:42 PM
It does say screw but it is a 6mm thread Ted not a self tapper, and yes that oil guide is necessary
Do you have a spare one perchance?
Post by: Bryanj on July 02, 2023, 06:03:39 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on July 04, 2023, 04:37:08 PM
Engine base unit went in easily, bottom front lower two bolts plus long bolt at rear slotted into place to keep it stable.
I know the upper rear long mounting bolt has a spacer but it looks as though there should be a much shorter spacer between the clutch side of the engine & the rear frame hanger - just a guess there should be a thick washer/spacer something around the 10-12 mm mark?
The parts book & my Haynes Manual show a right hand distance piece (item 9 p/n50357-323-010) it looks very much bigger so was this for earlier frames/engines?
Just need to know what if anything I am looking for as if it is a 10mm spacer I should find it listed in my parts location spreadsheet. I suspect I might even have bought a SS one from Max that was months ago so it will be in an ultra safe place of new parts - contents not listed? ::) ::) ::)
Post by: Oddjob on July 04, 2023, 05:35:16 PM
50357-323-010 is fitted on the left hand side of the lower bolt, again between the crankcase and the frame. Nothing else Ted, if there was you'd see it on the parts book diagrams.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on July 04, 2023, 07:05:29 PM
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53022795724_983f87af87_o.png) (https://flic.kr/p/2oMrFTb)Screenshot 2023-07-04 190020 (https://flic.kr/p/2oMrFTb) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
Post by: Oddjob on July 04, 2023, 07:22:07 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on July 04, 2023, 08:50:32 PM
Post by: Bryanj on July 04, 2023, 11:00:23 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on July 05, 2023, 06:53:30 AM
Post by: amx1992 on July 05, 2023, 09:22:43 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on July 05, 2023, 10:39:55 AM
I think you also have a stainless one somewhere
So do I, I've found the top one, I have the axle ones plus the brake hub special bolt. Plenty of time to slip it in when I find it. As my build progresses I have fewer boxes to search.
I plan to do an audit of my parts boxes over the next few days to reflect what I have recently fitted as well as reduce some of the boxes. Good organisation saves time especially wasted time looking for things that might not exist.
Updated:- Found the SS bottom rear engine spacer. ;D ;D ;D
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on July 05, 2023, 05:55:58 PM
Bottom bolt Ted, goes between the crankcase and that frame lug sticking off the frame. It's quite thick TBH, about 10-12 thick IIRC. Max does them in stainless.
I'll own up I misread the picture in the parts book -the rear tube where the stand pivot shaft is looks as though it was part of the spacer!
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on July 17, 2023, 08:50:18 PM
- no lost circlips.
Next up is fitting the block I'm okay with the pistons just need to work out how the cam chain tensioner fits first. I'm presently cleaning up the two oil restrictors in the ultra sound cleaner. I have the 4 cylinder bottom O- rings & bottom gasket at the ready.
In my head I do not fully understand the placing of the fixed blade the manual should help.
Any tips welcome.
Post by: Bryanj on July 17, 2023, 11:08:05 PM
If you dont you wont get the cam sprocket on.
I find it easier to fit the tensioner mechanism with the barrells not all the way down to make sure the bottom goes into the pocket its supposed to
Post by: Oddjob on July 17, 2023, 11:16:48 PM
Same for the front guide, fit when the barrels are standing slightly proud of the cases. It has an arrow which faces up, also says UP IIRC and as Bryan points out it goes behind then chain so that the chain goes between the guide and the front of the barrels.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on July 18, 2023, 04:01:40 PM
So the cam chain adjuster screw is on the rear of the engine, the fixed blade being fitted so the chain is between it & the front of the block.
For the fixed blade I can see it has the word UP on it with a two pairs of arms - I can see the side arms that sit in the engine casing recess at the bottom - so it sort of hangs from the slots in the top of the block until it fully engaged at the bottom - sounds fun.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on July 25, 2023, 12:13:16 PM
Lower block gasket & O rings & restrictors in place - the four larger block seals fitted to cylinder block - part lowered block to fit cam chain through tunnel.
Block fitted onto studs lowered down to a small wooden support block on rear edge of chain tunnel - pistons fed into bores 2 & 3 then 1 & 4 with cam chain through tunnel - cam tensioner & guide fitted into place - adjuster locked back once block fully lower into place.
All feels good - plenty of exercise walking round the bike ramp whilst feeding piston rings into block.
Post by: Johnny4428 on July 25, 2023, 02:41:40 PM
Post by: Oddjob on July 25, 2023, 03:13:26 PM
Should also have said to check the tensioner itself, after speaking to another member recently it's apparent a number of these tensioners are actually bent like a banana, caused by fitting the tensioner into the lower slot and then trying to fit the bolt through the barrels, doing it this way can bend the lower part of the tensioner as it's only pressed steel with little structural strength. This causes the blade to bend ever so slightly thus putting more pressure onto the chain than it should and if the chains new that means it's harder to get the chain onto the sprocket and the sprocket onto the cam.
I have 6 or 7 tensioners all restored and bagged, one showed signs of not being in the slot, the bottom edge gets chewed by the primary chain, 4 others showed bends in the lower half of the tensioner, when new the tensioner is straight, if yours looks bent it's because it is. Another way it could be bent is in how it's removed, you remove the nut etc and then try and remove the bolt from the barrels, this can do the damage in reverse. Always lift the barrels slightly before removing the tensioner, just to disengage the tensioner from the locating slot.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on July 25, 2023, 03:52:21 PM
The long tensioner blade was nice & straight I positioned it vertical with a gap of around an inch at the bottom. Fitted the fixed guide so it was pivoting at the top - I could see the lower section engage in the recess. I knew the rear blade was in position at the bottom as it did not move sideways when block down- after locking the nut in place with the adjuster screw in the fully back position - top part looks nice & vertical.
Post by: Oddjob on July 25, 2023, 03:53:23 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on July 25, 2023, 04:19:58 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on July 27, 2023, 11:44:56 PM
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53075895996_50f2fdae68.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oS8QK7)PXL_20230726_134925498 (https://flic.kr/p/2oS8QK7) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
Post by: Sesman on July 28, 2023, 07:14:27 AM
I was wondering, did you get round to having the tank and panels painted?
Post by: davidcumbria on July 28, 2023, 09:17:16 AM
Going backwards today taking my swingarm in for a second go at powder coating….
After all that work on the engine best to keep dog hairs etc well away…. :)
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on July 28, 2023, 10:32:32 AM
Post by: Oddjob on July 28, 2023, 03:12:51 PM
I've also polished some stainless bolts not from Middletons and they look chromed if you do them right.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on July 28, 2023, 03:36:57 PM
Now back to more polishing work on the clutch cover/ case just done a number of 30 minute sessions on the buffing wheel in the last couple of days using coarse then medium soap.
Keeping the deep scuff marks for now just aiming for a nice shiny overall finish when I move to the fine & very fine soap over the weekend - trying to do stuff whilst Wendy is at work during the middle of the day in her new part time summer job.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on July 29, 2023, 05:09:42 PM
I need to find my small buffing wheels to reach the difficult couple of places - I put them in a really safe place!
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53079711145_f9b8b003cf_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oStoRx)casing (https://flic.kr/p/2oStoRx) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
Post by: Oddjob on July 29, 2023, 07:10:43 PM
There are some Dremel attachments with a small felt drum on them, already impregnated with buffing compound, they ain't bad for those screw holes etc.. Not cheap but they last a while.
Only thing I will say is I would consider doing those small marks on the top surface between the dipstick and kickstart holes, you will start to regret leaving them after a while I find. Although it means doing a bit more sanding on a polishing surface it's only a small area and it will buff up nicely again afterwards. Just my opinion, feel free to discount it.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on July 29, 2023, 07:48:26 PM
Not sure how, I managed to get fine & very fine soap block mixed up so I have spent another 45 minutes of my life that I will not get back returning to a previously better finish. :P :P :P
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on August 08, 2023, 11:47:58 AM
Today removed all eight rocker shafts (one inner one took some releasing) ready for cleaning & checking the cam bearings - parts book shows four shafts so clearly some sort of modification?
Post by: Nurse Julie on August 08, 2023, 02:50:56 PM
Post by: Oddjob on August 08, 2023, 03:40:18 PM
Post by: Trigger on August 08, 2023, 05:59:50 PM
Post by: Seabeowner on August 08, 2023, 07:07:21 PM
in Aladdin's Cave the Japanese CB500 K0 parts list only shows 4 shafts.
+ the CB500 K0 K1 list dated Jan 30, 1972 also only shows 4 shafts.
+ I have a parts list (downloaded from honda4fun I think) that is supposed to cover K0 K1 K2 as Page 4 pictorially showing both 4 and 8 shafts. 4 shafts to 2006337 and 8 shafts from 2006338. (or maybe this is a mistake and should be the other way round)
None of these had the later 4 pinned shafts fitted to later 550s. SB08 11/08/76 covered this. It seems strange that Honda did not fit this mod for a full five years after 500s were first sold. Or for some reason did it only become apparent on later 550s.
Post by: Trigger on August 09, 2023, 08:16:32 AM
Post by: Oddjob on August 09, 2023, 02:30:31 PM
When they changed back to 4 shafts again much later in the production run they weren't staked like the 550 ones, the 500K3 were staked as that's using a 550 style rocker box
https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/1511829976
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on August 29, 2023, 09:34:45 PM
In the meantime as I am feeling a lot brighter I've started to sort out various electrical connections as it is a bit of a mess in several places with the ravages of age making many of the PVC type sleeves hard plus a bit of a mix of connectors from previous work. You can see why I was thinking of replacing the loom but for now making do with some new connector blocks & some tape work fitting new connections where needed.
..(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53151591598_c40b6eaf58_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oYPNpG)500 loom (https://flic.kr/p/2oYPNpG) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
Post by: Oddjob on August 29, 2023, 10:28:00 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on August 29, 2023, 11:17:46 PM
Not 100% sure but I know the 550 loom routing is different than that Ted. It goes under the lower yoke and is held by a clamp which bolts onto the yoke. Whilst there is no 500 routing diagram to my knowledge I think the 550 routes better. There is also another loom hanger which goes behind the tank mount rubber.
I have a spare loom guide for a 400 that fits behind the left front tank rubber so plan to use that if it helps, as regards the route at the front column area I have atm routed mine like this photo below I think its Julie's 500. No wires connected up as yet as I'm taking my time to get the various wires in the Headlamp bowl in the best position.
My cunning plan (if it even works) is to work with the battery earth connected normally, the starter motor cable disconnected for now. I plan to use an inline lamp between the positive battery post and the live end of loom as a sort of safety fuse (suitably insulated joint).
The lamp I use is an old lamp unit that used to be part of an old car tool kit from the 1950's that you clipped to the battery before the days of illuminated engine bays. I can put a variety of bulbs in the lamp fitting, atm I have a 12 V 5W bulb in the lamp. As I connect various wires if I happen to accidentally contact a live wire to earth then it will illuminate the bulb/or blow it instead of overheating the main wiring loom. I will use my AVO meter & additional Hella test lamp where connections are uncertain.
If its anything like my 400 was most wires are a straight forward colour match so the more that are plugged in the loom the fewer unknown wires that remain. Some colours such as light blue/light grey/ light green are not easy to decide what they are. I'm not colour blind as such but faded colours can be tricky to identify as your eye sight ages.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53151221376_6f0d305e76_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oYMUmy)wiring 1 (https://flic.kr/p/2oYMUmy) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
Post by: Bryanj on August 29, 2023, 11:45:58 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on August 29, 2023, 11:50:33 PM
Post by: Sesman on August 30, 2023, 07:44:27 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on August 30, 2023, 10:37:53 AM
Lovely job, Ted. Nearly there.
That's not my bike the photo is to illustrate the loom route in response to Ken's post.
Post by: taysidedragon on August 30, 2023, 11:54:04 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on August 30, 2023, 12:22:53 PM
It's my eye balls that need upgrading 😁😁😁
Post by: Sesman on August 30, 2023, 01:06:01 PM
Post by: Oddjob on August 30, 2023, 02:50:06 PM
Tell me, did your eyes suddenly get worse after meeting Roo? He's so ugly my eyeballs haven't stopped bleeding yet ;D ;D ;D ;D
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on August 30, 2023, 03:20:01 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on August 30, 2023, 05:02:28 PM
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Post by: Laverdaroo on August 30, 2023, 05:02:36 PM
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Post by: davidcumbria on August 31, 2023, 07:50:23 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on August 31, 2023, 03:57:31 PM
Nice tip about wiring in a test lamp Ted, I ll try that.
I started connecting the Indicators today I found that instead of them flashing they just lit up the test bulb even when I upped the bulb from 5W to 10W so my idea has not really worked out.
Decided instead to fit a temporary in-line blade fuse where the test lamp was fitted as a precaution until the loom connections are all sorted.
First good outcome was the left side indicators work just fine including the additional left side LED unit in my tail lamp unit.
Next will be sorting out the idiot light repeater connection.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 01, 2023, 11:26:57 PM
Did a tad more on the wiring front all indicators now working including panel light, neutral light, oil light & brake lights. Ignition circuit part done.
I'm scratching my head over the starter button as the yellow/Red wire is live but the button contact wire is black?
Next job is side lights & headlamp wiring.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 02, 2023, 01:33:31 PM
Items not currently working as they should are the pass switch & starter button. No Horn fitted atm - that should be straight forwards.
ATM the connections are anyhow in terms of orientation/routes with some temporary bridges, once everything works I will tidy up the Spaghetti appearance so I can fit my slim LED headlight unit.
Only blew my inline fuse once yesterday & one today (5 amp) so pleased I went to the trouble to fit one as a temporary measure on the live battery terminal.
PS: Not checked the kill switch as yet!
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53159173318_c92b8012f3_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oZuEc1)500 headlamp speg (https://flic.kr/p/2oZuEc1) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
Post by: Bryanj on September 02, 2023, 01:38:00 PM
Post by: Johnny4428 on September 02, 2023, 02:08:31 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 02, 2023, 02:16:30 PM
How many wires to the starter button in the switch Ted
The switch itself has a live Yellow/Red trace that when you depress the button connects to a black wire out of the loom with a male end.
Post by: Oddjob on September 02, 2023, 03:34:53 PM
First of all the yellow/red is supposed to be earthed by the starter button on the 500, on the 550 it's a different arrangement as the 550 has a clutch switch and sensor so the starter solenoid won't work if the bikes not in neutral or the clutch isn't pulled in. You haven't got the wiring for that. On the 550 the yellow/red connects to a green/red when the button is pressed.
You also seem to have a yellow/black connected to 2 blacks for some reason, yet there is a female yellow/black up near the top connected to something else, what's that about.
What does the black/blue wire connect to in the switchgear? I have a sneaky idea that's the power source for the headlight flasher and horn, try testing to see if there is continuity between the blue and the black/blue when the pass switch is operated and also light green to black/blue when the horn is pressed If so that wire goes to the black connectors in the loom..
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 02, 2023, 04:11:11 PM
The problem Ted is your trying to marry up 550 switchgear with a 500 loom and that's not going to be a doddle.
First of all the yellow/red is supposed to be earthed by the starter button on the 500, on the 550 it's a different arrangement as the 550 has a clutch switch and sensor so the starter solenoid won't work if the bikes not in neutral or the clutch isn't pulled in. You haven't got the wiring for that. On the 550 the yellow/red connects to a green/red when the button is pressed.
You also seem to have a yellow/black connected to 2 blacks for some reason, yet there is a female yellow/black up near the top connected to something else, what's that about.
What does the black/blue wire connect to in the switchgear? I have a sneaky idea that's the power source for the headlight flasher and horn, try testing to see if there is continuity between the blue and the black/blue when the pass switch is operated and also light green to black/blue when the horn is pressed If so that wire goes to the black connectors in the loom..
I have some connections that have no colour logic but work - it's certainly not completely finished as yet.
I have a black live double connector on the loom end connected to a single Black/Yellow trace wire from the right side light switch - this made the sidelights & instrument lights work as they should when ignition is on.
I have a temporary bridge between the left switch - male Black/Yellow trace connected to right switch - Black/Red trace, This made the headlamp position on the right handlebar switch work, main & dip work on the left handlebar switch.
I have an unused black male wire on the right side handlebar switch - this is probably related to the kill switch?
I need to check the solenoid connections again, if it's just a matter of earthing the starter button I have a spare black wire on the right side switch that I can connect to earth but at the moment pretty sure that would blow the fuse as the Yellow/Red trace is live & reads a good 12 volts.
As you have mentioned there is a "Spare" Black/Blue trace wire on the left side switch as yet unused.
My switch gear came from Germany listed as follows - CB 400 500 K2 550 750K3-K6 Four
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 02, 2023, 04:24:04 PM
Post by: Bryanj on September 02, 2023, 04:43:39 PM
That keeps everything in the shell colour to colour for next time and only the solenoid, which is rarely looked at, different to standard
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 04, 2023, 04:38:06 PM
Whilst waiting for paint to dry I did a tad more on my headlamp & switch connection issues with having 550 switches on my 500 loom.
With the exception of the Pass switch function I have everything working now so getting closer!
Trouble is I have no spare wires so it's closer but not quite right - I might end up fitting a relay for the headlamp flash function.
Oh oh when I take the key out in the far right Park position rear side lamp & front beam on! I'll leave it until I've fitted the cylinder head.
Bryan did say I might have some issues with these switches..lol
Post by: Bryanj on September 04, 2023, 09:25:31 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 04, 2023, 10:28:55 PM
Both the starter button & the horn have a separate earth wire connection so they were pretty straight forward to connect up. I'm distracted at the moment as I want to get the cylinder head & camshaft all buttoned up before the cold weather sets in so wiring work will be at a standstill for a couple of weeks - any pointers welcome though.
Not helped by having another minor operation tomorrow afternoon to remove a BCC on my shoulder - top marks to my Dermatologist for spotting it & my two Melanomas that he has removed in the last couple of years. They blame sun damage but aside from one holiday back in 1967 I have never sunbathed or worn a sleeveless T shirt as I am and never was a beach Adonis or sun worshiper.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/184159105630
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/174181090102
Post by: Bryanj on September 04, 2023, 10:42:12 PM
The wire from the H on rh switch needs to go to the input of the dip switch on lh side
The P from rh switch needs to go to brown and/or brown white in headlamp
Black from rh switch(should be two of them) go to black power
Black from lh switch goes to black power(may be two of those as well)
Pass switch may have a seperate wire to shell or may connect inside to dip switch
Horn will need to have ground wire at horn as switch will power it.
You have already found starter has two wires and i explained how to keep shell standard instead of way you have it.
Hope that helps mate but long distance electrics aint easy, remember electrikery dont smell(unless you let the smoke out) dont taste much but by christ it bites
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 04, 2023, 10:47:03 PM
Post by: Bryanj on September 05, 2023, 04:03:45 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 05, 2023, 10:38:21 AM
You have my number if you are sat in front of it scratching whatever you scratch
Thanks Bryan I have that in reserve bud- I'm a stubborn old bloke with Electrics with a slow learning dip before I see a hint of a curve on the horizon.
Like I say to my brother about house electrics there are only three wires how hard can it be -assuming you are not colour blind.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 06, 2023, 06:50:04 PM
Until I have the sutures removed from my right shoulder shoulder I am leaving the cylinder head assembly & fitting for a couple of weeks so instead I'm biting & bobbing with the wiring again.
I have following Bryan's wiring tips with some success. (Early Days)
I have undone the switch halves from the handlebars to try to work out what goes where inside and made quite a bit of headway I think. As yet the pass switch is not functioning but everything else seems to now work.
I no longer have the front beam coming on with the switch in the far right position - parking light I think - trouble is just the rear lamp illuminates not the front side light. Is this how these old bikes were wired up?
Post by: Oddjob on September 06, 2023, 07:35:24 PM
There should be 3 wires going to the pass switch, light green, dark blue and black. If you have the light green and dark blue whatever the other wire is goes to black on the loom. It should work then.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 06, 2023, 09:12:23 PM
I'll look at the Pass switch again as I have some spare wires atm.
Update:
I had a bit of a Eureka moment when I went to bed last night, this morning I changed the way the Horn function operates (as hinted by Bryan) so there is an earth wire at the horn end instead of the button earthing it. The black wire now supplies power to the horn instead of being an earth connection (much like the starter button). When I tried it this moring the Pass switch now works as does the Horn. I am now left with just one unused wire from the right handlebar switch - Black/blue trace. The original right side switch had 6 wires the new switch has 7 wires so not an issue to have a spare wire. I have a couple of wires that seem to contradict the matching colours I would expect - I will take a look at those & see if it changes anything.
Only very minor issue left is the front side light does not come on in the park position only the rear one - if I do not find a fix for that I can live with it as I have never used parking lights on a bike anway. Seems strange really as the front & rear side light are on the same circuit in the P light switch position. I would have thought that if the Park light position on the main ignition switch sends power to the rear lamp that it would also power the front sidelight - clearly it does not.
Post by: mickwinf on September 07, 2023, 01:23:36 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 07, 2023, 04:23:50 PM
The sidelight issue had me scratching my head too. If the side light comes on when headlamp switch is on, but not when ignition switch is in park, you probably have wrong wire to front sidelamp. It should be a brown wire, NOT brown/white (these supply tach and speedo). I did not realise that the power for sidelight/rear lamp takes a strange path, from r/h handlebar via brown/white wire back to ignition switch terminal TL1 then to TL2 which is the brown wire, then to pilot/rearlamp. when ignition switch is in park position power goes directly to TL2 for parking. If you look on the wiring diagram i sent you it makes sense. The odd blue/brown wire you have would have gone to fusebox on 400/550 so not needed on your 500.I think you have identified my issue Mick I have the front sidelight in the same connector as the instrument lamps.
The old side light bulb holder & short harness on my 500 looks suspiciously like an old instrument light harness.
It has a moulded bulb holder at the end - the wires are green (earth) & brown/white trace.
I have that connected with the other brown/white wires in the harness with the instrument lamps.
The plain brown wire in the harness has a feed from the right handlebar P side of the switch it is black/yellow trace on my switch iirc.
I will need to put an extra connector on this to siamese the side light into the feed from the P side of the switch. I have just done my first fit of the LED headlamp unit into the bowl spreading the wires evenly so the light unit fits okay. There is plenty of space as my LED head lamp unit is quite shallow.
I will try that in the morning and report back.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 07, 2023, 05:10:38 PM
Thanks Bryan & Mick for your help - now sorted!
Post by: Laverdaroo on September 07, 2023, 10:29:35 PM
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Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 08, 2023, 09:21:46 AM
Post by: Laverdaroo on September 08, 2023, 10:32:32 AM
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Post by: Bryanj on September 08, 2023, 01:22:09 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on September 08, 2023, 01:43:54 PM
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Post by: Oddjob on September 08, 2023, 01:54:53 PM
Bad Ted ;D ;D ;D
Post by: Bryanj on September 08, 2023, 02:06:42 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 08, 2023, 06:25:59 PM
TBH if Ted had done some close up shots and concentrated on the wires from the switches we could have worked it out much easier. You need close pics to work out the traces on the wires, you can't tell what's what from a distance.
Bad Ted ;D ;D ;D
Had I needed the bike to go to work then it would have been a major issue - as it was just spending half an hour attaching a few wires seeing the result, bimbling about looking at the wiring diagram, blowing a couple of in-line safety fuses, swapping a few wires, testing, reading tips here, it was all sorted in 10 earth days during that time I had Covid again & a minor operation so in reality its been just a few hours of real work. Anyway today I checked everything is wired up & all is well.
I'm under close survaillance by Wendy atm so the cylinder head & camshaft fitting will have to wait for another 6 days until I have the 10 or so sutures removed. It will be nice to have the engine buttoned up for the winter if everything goes to plan.
Post by: Laverdaroo on September 08, 2023, 07:31:41 PM
Ken, i cant tell the colour at close distance without my beloveds sewing magnifier!
I feel your pain Bryan, the older you get the longer arms you need 
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Post by: Oddjob on September 08, 2023, 08:29:32 PM
What's the glow from the garage???
Post by: Laverdaroo on September 08, 2023, 08:31:40 PM
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Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 08, 2023, 10:20:42 PM
No worries about any fires in my garage as I still have the in-line blade fuses between the battery & positive lead.
Sado that I am I keep on nipping into the garage to re-check my parking lights - that is the glow below! 8) 8) 8)
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53173020187_fae42e2051_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2p1HCo8)500 rear led (https://flic.kr/p/2p1HCo8) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53174052730_a1072271c8_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2p1NVjA)500 Angel Eye (https://flic.kr/p/2p1NVjA) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
Post by: Laverdaroo on September 08, 2023, 10:24:09 PM
Yeah but you do that when you can’t quite get that you’ve fettled it. I was the same when I first wired the Moto gadget thingy onto the LHG’s 400. Kept bobbing out and doing the keyless ignition just to see it all come alive. Very, very satisfying
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Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 08, 2023, 10:34:29 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on September 08, 2023, 10:50:14 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Oddjob on September 08, 2023, 11:23:52 PM
Post by: Craizeehair on September 08, 2023, 11:56:58 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230908/c7fbaff49d755ba736b7ca362dde9a48.jpg)
Post by: Laverdaroo on September 09, 2023, 12:12:44 AM
Now what would you know about being human Roo?
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Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 11, 2023, 07:40:32 PM
I failed completely to get the chain to fit on the sprocket after 40 odd minutes of sweat getting hot & botherd so I gave up. I knew the old chain was a snug fit so my new H/D chain would be difficult. I had pub lunch with my little brother. (At lunch I was going through areas in my head that could be a cause - chain too short, tensioners not fitted correctly, self doubt starting to depress me).
At about 6.00pm this evening I decided I would have one last go for today so I did something slightly different that I suspect is of significance as the chain/spocket are now in place with the valve timing checked as per the manual.
Sorry if this is obvious to the experienced members this is what I did. Cam chain had a cable tie through it looped over the top of the frame, likewise the sprocket had a cable tie through one of the bolt holes. Crank timing marks was at TDC 1/4 position.
I then started to feed the camshaft from the right side of the engine but put the chain over the camshaft first then started to thread the camshaft throught the apatures in the sprocket until the sprocket was in place but not fully seated on the boss (cable ties removed when no danger of chain or sprocket falling into the engine). doing it from the right side - this gives you some slack - I made sure that the chain was in the right position for the two bolt holes to line up with the camshaft end marks in the right position. Checked that crank still at TDC. It is quite easy to rotate the sprocket with no chain yet in place checking the camshaft timing mark is where it should be. So visually if the chain was on the sprocket the valve timing would be correct if you get my drift.
For some reason with the chain to the right side of the boss this enables the chain to be fed onto the sprocket by hand. All that remained was to give the sprocket a little bit of leverage from the left side through one of the appertures that then lifted the sprocket onto the raised boss - bolted in place making sure a cloth covered any chance of dropping a bolt down the chain tunnel. It went on a treat - my earlier failure was starting with the chain on the left side of the sporcket so somehow doing it from the right side worked.
Post by: Sesman on September 11, 2023, 07:58:22 PM
Post by: royhall on September 11, 2023, 08:20:57 PM
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Post by: Oddjob on September 11, 2023, 09:10:40 PM
You've essentially threaded the camshaft with the cam sprocket hanging loose on it through the chain, with the engine at cylinder 1 TDC, T mark 1-4 lined up with notch. You've then turned the camshaft so the slot is flush with the head surface, then sort of aligned the cam sprocket so that if you were to fit it now it the bolt holes would line up. Then mounted the chain onto the sprocket and then levered it onto the cam, bolt holes lined up, slot was still aligned and crank hadn't shifted.
If that's so then that's exactly how you should do it. I seem to think people are trying to fit the chain onto the sprocket with the sprocket mounted on the cam and that's not possible, not unless the chain really stretched that is.
It's fit cam through chain, mount chain onto sprocket and then fit sprocket onto cam, IF the holes don't line up then work out how many links you need to move so that they would, dismount sprocket, move chain and try again. Most times you're a link out.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 11, 2023, 09:20:03 PM
The manual just mentions passing the camshaft from the right side through the chain & sprocket without specifying the order.
I think the order is important as it affects the space you work in and the angles.
Post by: Bryanj on September 11, 2023, 10:29:02 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 11, 2023, 10:33:55 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 12, 2023, 09:08:52 PM
Put more simply the camshaft is fed from the right side loop the chain through the camshaft first, then feed the lobes through the sprocket. Doing it this way results in the chain being on the right side of the sprocket & boss on the camshaft.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 12, 2023, 10:01:10 PM
Coming on nicely, Ted.
I was wondering, did you get round to having the tank and panels painted?
Only just spotted your question - tank & side panels went to the bloke at Ilkeston - great job bike will now be Black.
Post by: Oddjob on September 13, 2023, 12:03:36 AM
I've read my post about fitting the cam chain - it reads oddly complicated.
Put more simply the camshaft is fed from the right side loop the chain through the camshaft first, then feed the lobes through the sprocket. Doing it this way results in the chain being on the right side of the sprocket & boss on the camshaft.
Wouldn't it be easier to fit the sprocket past the lobes whilst it's off the engine Ted, leave it hanging next to where it fits and then thread it thorough the chain?
Post by: Sesman on September 13, 2023, 08:11:18 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 13, 2023, 09:11:10 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 13, 2023, 09:26:10 AM
I've read my post about fitting the cam chain - it reads oddly complicated.
Put more simply the camshaft is fed from the right side loop the chain through the camshaft first, then feed the lobes through the sprocket. Doing it this way results in the chain being on the right side of the sprocket & boss on the camshaft.
Wouldn't it be easier to fit the sprocket past the lobes whilst it's off the engine Ted, leave it hanging next to where it fits and then thread it thorough the chain?
It's difficult to explain but if you do it that way I found the left end of the cam grounds on the head well before it can reach the end bearing. You need to end up with the chain on the right side of the sprocket not the left. Phil's photo says it all.
On a used chain it might work if the chain is on the left side.
Post by: K2-K6 on September 13, 2023, 09:27:42 AM
A picture paints a thousand words.👍👍👍
I'll name that tune in one Ted... Telly Savalas 1975, "if a picture paints" amusingly from the right period for these bike too ;D
You're right Ted, it's awkward getting your head round some of these fiddly assembly just from description. Once into place though you can see just how it's done.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 13, 2023, 09:39:29 AM
A picture paints a thousand words.👍👍👍
I'll name that tune in one Ted... Telly Savalas 1975, "if a picture paints" amusingly from the right period for these bike too ;D
You're right Ted, it's awkward getting yourself head round some of these fiddly assembly just from description. Once into place though you can see just how it's donnce /quote]
It is indeed K2-K6 plus my negative inner self is telling me I must have the guides in wrong whilst my "you can do it" side of my brain says no you did them right and tries to calmly look at all the angles.
Post by: davidcumbria on September 13, 2023, 12:05:57 PM
Post by: Bryanj on September 13, 2023, 12:28:20 PM
Post by: Johnny4428 on September 13, 2023, 02:40:07 PM
Telly Savalas butchered that song originaly sung by David Gates of Bread(the group not the tv series)“Where’s me lunch” 😂😂
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 13, 2023, 05:35:21 PM
Going to be doing just this in a few days time. Feel like I’ve had such a good primer. Did you hone the bores or fit new piston rings Ted ?
Bryan did the rebore plus a heavy duty cam chain fron Ken there was a brief moment when I thought the chain was half a link too tight!😁😁😁
Post by: Oddjob on September 13, 2023, 06:49:04 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 13, 2023, 07:39:09 PM
Even a new oe chain is tight to put on Ted, plus I’ve never seen a chain qouted in half links, like 88.5 for example 😀😀
I jest about the half link - a full link would be too loose, the old chain was a sod to get off as well.
Post by: Oddjob on September 13, 2023, 08:07:46 PM
Oddly, I've never had a problem removing a camchain, I tend to remove the 2 bolts and knock the sprocket off the cam, loads of slack then.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 27, 2023, 12:31:03 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 12, 2023, 08:22:23 PM
The first three carbs went together a treat but number four carb has one stripped bowl thread - not too bad just one out of 16 screws - almost half the screws were rusted so probably due to removing a screw that was rusted.
IIRC from DomP post a M4 Helicoil will sort it - any links to a suitable repair kit welcome - I am a Helicoil virgin regarding DIY kits so any advice is welcome. I assume kits come with a drill bit - can this be done hand held as I do not have a pillar drill?
I will look on U tube for an idiots guide.
Post by: Oddjob on October 12, 2023, 08:54:52 PM
The insert is normally a few threads too long so cut a couple of threads off.
Post by: Trigger on October 12, 2023, 10:21:05 PM
Post by: Oddjob on October 12, 2023, 11:35:03 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 18, 2023, 05:23:52 PM
I know they are only fuel vents but think I will slip some new short pipes in between the carb bank as the left one is a tad manky.
Bench synch done.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53268094844_6a81e86ae6_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pa7ULm)500 carbs (https://flic.kr/p/2pa7ULm) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
Post by: Oddjob on October 18, 2023, 05:43:09 PM
Also open the choke and check all the flaps are level when the chokes fully open.
Pic from the front as well please, I'd like to see how that ceramic chrome effect bracket looks when all the carbs are fitted.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 18, 2023, 05:51:48 PM
I did wonder if it was the links as they look like thin SS ones that Gerben fitted.
I'll pop a picture up from the other side in the morning.
Post by: Oddjob on October 18, 2023, 05:52:56 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 18, 2023, 08:33:35 PM
I did this intentionally so if my idle ended up too high it left me with a bit to play with as I could lower the slider height evenly. Presumably me doing that has lifted the other part of the linkage so more thread shows.
Would I be better off unscrewing the thumb screw off the stop completely then setting the sliders at say the thickness of a pop rivett shaft?
Post by: Oddjob on October 18, 2023, 09:58:35 PM
Try winding the screws right out. Look down the front of the slides, they should be fully bottomed, now do each screw in turn until you see the slide just start to lift, stop there. Do each screw so the slide is just starting to lift. Then screw in the thumb screw and you should see them all lift at the same time, when they do check they all look the same. This way the slides will be fully shut if the thumb screw is wound back out again in the event the tickover is too high or it starts to fast idle etc.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 18, 2023, 10:13:49 PM
I guess also pressing down on the brass cap will give little movement from the above setting.
Post by: florence on October 19, 2023, 09:22:28 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 19, 2023, 09:40:25 AM
My garage sink area is my untidy area as is the area around my indoor buffing wheel .
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53269558258_dbe9791728_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pafpMC)PXL_20231019_084502946 (https://flic.kr/p/2pafpMC) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
Post by: Oddjob on October 19, 2023, 10:33:09 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 19, 2023, 11:43:13 AM
What have you put over the linkage rod retaining screw Ted?Some Hondabond!
More precisely a big blob😁😁😁
Post by: Oddjob on October 19, 2023, 01:18:28 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 19, 2023, 03:25:51 PM
Why, just use a little thread lock.
My thread lock could not be found so used what was to hand.👍👍👍
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 24, 2023, 09:50:11 AM
Fitted small gromett to air filter lid so it holds onto the bolt head at the front.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53282044794_11ca4ca07f_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pbmpAJ)airbox fitted (https://flic.kr/p/2pbmpAJ) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53282190285_830e604b85_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pbn9Rc)carbs back on (https://flic.kr/p/2pbn9Rc) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
Post by: Laverdaroo on October 24, 2023, 10:23:49 AM
Post by: Oddjob on October 24, 2023, 11:26:47 AM
Missing the black plastic cover off the kickstart lever. Keeps the crap out of the knuckle joint. Seem to recall someone making them and selling them on Ebay. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/143595737695?hash=item216ef9125f:g:ZOQAAOSw3axerz5U&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAAwLuy3C3OQhU4zlKnwPJLWjEOmwDTqoW1C5kHiSHqlK85R9s%2F5Q6TMEOfXlqcNbqJJsd7ra2JWQx4GyVXOhS5%2Bk9W3%2FFJOy419uId7Ul%2BEjAusA%2FC%2Fm78u6CDjZqKs0nfY954LwyCiRg%2FQPaQHRBhuXuzTdscUV%2F2BO%2Bz7AgJmZutQsZX0n%2Fsx8aMgGi89k7gTVzQpkPuST7waq%2BRreNqsCqPFaEnmpbNpI%2B6a5d82EqUPIJ%2BYpjj09AlH8SdA2UUcg%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR9Dw4ZLsYg
Be careful using domed nuts on the intake manifolds, I've found that unless they are really deep ones there is a chance the nut bottoms out on the bolt, you think it's tightened up so you stop, then you find it isn't tight and it's allowing air to be pulled in past the oring.
Something like these are better. I use those on the exhaust studs as well, keeps the thread from rusting and you struggling to remove them afterwards.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/295955048209?hash=item44e84ba711:g:XTMAAOSwZ5llFtdk&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA0Cteh8SGnUw1Cx5gGQNUNWk%2Fejj9ygmWcb8sM%2BhHl0q6dxR6LxnzIdhQmbm51gnqCo1%2FHHZ0GzUsS04C%2B8dIhZ34JXoy4Q9ylIvKkGC2s69LhsmX4ZDDMCUZcyX5jKJMOUVTnMRGxF3m%2B9uKL3JLDnxsAVdhxZib3GaqcA6JIHbbib1Mod1rT%2BmUFDXckfd%2FUIlBrXbmdQlVJkX7D9r2p2GmTHHvC0xL1cIpssi6T%2B8tRrmIi8YMZferhjonCygZpot%2FOBVxUJ8Yrv6p5Zio5j8%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR5qKx5LsYg
Not supposed to be a grommet on the tooltray Ted although I suspect you know that. It doesn't rattle in use so it's not really needed TBH.
The HT cap shown is wrong for that location, that's for 2 & 3 cylinders, the outer ones use a long right angled one.
Coming on, starting to look the part. I suspect the breather cover is off a 550 BTW, the vent pipe outlet comes out on the other side to the 500 one IIRC.
Pay attention to the way the bolt fits for the rear brake lever adjusting bolt, can't remember offhand which way it fits, bolt head down or up but it's one you can't change over without removing stuff so it's better to get it right before fitting the brake lever. The workshop manual shows it bolt head up but there is a pic in there I'm convinced shows it bolt head down. I'd fit it bolt head up myself.
NOT criticisms, just comments you may or may not find useful.
Post by: Oddjob on October 24, 2023, 11:47:52 AM
On post 1 he does something I didn't think was possible and answers your "Am I stupid ?" thread question.
Have a look, you may find his very detailed thread of use to you as well.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,86697.100.html
Post by: DomP on October 24, 2023, 01:31:51 PM
Post by: Oddjob on October 24, 2023, 01:49:26 PM
You need a tooltray Dom? Roo has a couple but I doubt they are cheap as they are as rare as hell. Most have the wire mesh rusted to hell as well so you need to replace that with some stainless steel stuff like Ted has
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 24, 2023, 02:11:14 PM
No fuse holder Ted?
Missing the black plastic cover off the kickstart lever. Keeps the crap out of the knuckle joint. Seem to recall someone making them and selling them on Ebay. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/143595737695?hash=item216ef9125f:g:ZOQAAOSw3axerz5U&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAAwLuy3C3OQhU4zlKnwPJLWjEOmwDTqoW1C5kHiSHqlK85R9s%2F5Q6TMEOfXlqcNbqJJsd7ra2JWQx4GyVXOhS5%2Bk9W3%2FFJOy419uId7Ul%2BEjAusA%2FC%2Fm78u6CDjZqKs0nfY954LwyCiRg%2FQPaQHRBhuXuzTdscUV%2F2BO%2Bz7AgJmZutQsZX0n%2Fsx8aMgGi89k7gTVzQpkPuST7waq%2BRreNqsCqPFaEnmpbNpI%2B6a5d82EqUPIJ%2BYpjj09AlH8SdA2UUcg%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR9Dw4ZLsYg
Be careful using domed nuts on the intake manifolds, I've found that unless they are really deep ones there is a chance the nut bottoms out on the bolt, you think it's tightened up so you stop, then you find it isn't tight and it's allowing air to be pulled in past the oring.
Something like these are better. I use those on the exhaust studs as well, keeps the thread from rusting and you struggling to remove them afterwards.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/295955048209?hash=item44e84ba711:g:XTMAAOSwZ5llFtdk&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA0Cteh8SGnUw1Cx5gGQNUNWk%2Fejj9ygmWcb8sM%2BhHl0q6dxR6LxnzIdhQmbm51gnqCo1%2FHHZ0GzUsS04C%2B8dIhZ34JXoy4Q9ylIvKkGC2s69LhsmX4ZDDMCUZcyX5jKJMOUVTnMRGxF3m%2B9uKL3JLDnxsAVdhxZib3GaqcA6JIHbbib1Mod1rT%2BmUFDXckfd%2FUIlBrXbmdQlVJkX7D9r2p2GmTHHvC0xL1cIpssi6T%2B8tRrmIi8YMZferhjonCygZpot%2FOBVxUJ8Yrv6p5Zio5j8%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR5qKx5LsYg
Not supposed to be a grommet on the tooltray Ted although I suspect you know that. It doesn't rattle in use so it's not really needed TBH.
The HT cap shown is wrong for that location, that's for 2 & 3 cylinders, the outer ones use a long right angled one.
Coming on, starting to look the part. I suspect the breather cover is off a 550 BTW, the vent pipe outlet comes out on the other side to the 500 one IIRC.
Pay attention to the way the bolt fits for the rear brake lever adjusting bolt, can't remember offhand which way it fits, bolt head down or up but it's one you can't change over without removing stuff so it's better to get it right before fitting the brake lever. The workshop manual shows it bolt head up but there is a pic in there I'm convinced shows it bolt head down. I'd fit it bolt head up myself.
NOT criticisms, just comments you may or may not find useful.
Thanks for the feedback Ken it is very helpful.
I expected some comments on my excessive use of copper washers on the cam cover.
My temporary fuse holder was on the live side - now removed - what fuse holder do you mean?
The domed manifold nuts were fitted by Bryan and are a tall domed type.
Plug caps - my bad just wanted the overlong wires out of the way.
I fitted the grommet to hold down the front of the tray as it tends to stand up on the left side with no seat in place.
I'll see if one of my rubber blanking grommets fits the kick start - I might even have one from a 400 lever I had.
Sorry in advance Ash for the SS Hex Head side cover bolts - fitted by PO.
Post by: Bryanj on October 24, 2023, 03:07:58 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 24, 2023, 03:09:41 PM
Should I have lubricated the new cables first?
My cable routing might be questionable as they pass through the forks.
Nice reduced amount of throttle rotation needed for full throttle as a result of fitting the throttle tube that Ken told me about. (CB1300)
Post by: Bryanj on October 24, 2023, 04:20:02 PM
Routing is very important, should be something on Ashs dropbox, pdi i think that shows route
Post by: Oddjob on October 24, 2023, 04:35:36 PM
Fuse holder goes in the little slot in the tooltray, it holds 3 spare fuses which is vital for the 500 as it only has a single fuse and if it blows everything dies, and I mean everything. You're pushing it home if the fuse blows and you don't have a replacement handy. Very hard to find, even I have only one.
One of these.
https://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cb500k1-four-england_model14660/case-fuse_38205323000/
Quite rare, Graham had some made a few years ago, no idea where he got them done. Maybe 3D printed?
The tooltray must be bent if it sits up at the front, it shouldn't. Maybe a little heat and some persuasion is needed.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 24, 2023, 05:33:01 PM
No lube on Honda cables Ted, ruins the sleeving and coating.
Routing is very important, should be something on Ashs dropbox, pdi i think that shows route
Thanks I will take a look.
Post by: Johnny4428 on October 24, 2023, 05:34:14 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 24, 2023, 05:42:42 PM
Ted, that bike is coming along nicely, some nice work done there. Looking forward to start up!
Thanks Johnny nice to get some positive strokes - that said I also take on board comments that point out things thate are wrong or missing.
When my 500 is done I have decided before thinking about another proect to re-visit my 400 as there are some things I can now do better.
Post by: DomP on October 24, 2023, 06:52:56 PM
Ted has a 500 Dom, the 550F doesn't have a tooltray due to the snorkel that was fitted to that model.
You need a tooltray Dom? Roo has a couple but I doubt they are cheap as they are as rare as hell. Most have the wire mesh rusted to hell as well so you need to replace that with some stainless steel stuff like Ted has
I just have an open topped airbox at the moment Ken but running a 500 filter due to missing so many of the 550 internals. I'd just like to be able to close it off somehow as I'd imagine it will mess with the carb set up as it is
Post by: davidcumbria on October 24, 2023, 10:44:56 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on October 24, 2023, 10:48:37 PM
Post by: Oddjob on October 24, 2023, 11:24:00 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 25, 2023, 09:56:41 AM
Post by: Rozabikes Tim on October 25, 2023, 10:35:14 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 25, 2023, 11:36:35 AM
Good progress Ted. Why did you use copper rather than ss washers on the valve cover ? I would love to see a photo of those bolts you used next to the tappet covers on the front. Your engine paint looks great. I’m way behind now - haven’t rebuilt my carbs yet. Looking forward to your first start up. 👍
Photo of bolt Dave only fitted them to the two outer front bolt holes where the issues were with fitting the cam caps due to cost.
Cam caps in photo have not been cleaned up as I have some standard replacements - the chromed ones I bought from DS are too bling as well as my concern over the threads.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53283470422_0d20764226_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pbtHow)cam cover bolt (https://flic.kr/p/2pbtHow) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 25, 2023, 12:33:18 PM
ATM the cable routes go from the the throttle, loop down between the forks then follow the frame above the round tank mount (can easily be moved to below the mount above the coils). Photos to follow as I'm going out for lunch & my phone connection is on my PC not the laptop I'm using.
Post by: Johnny4428 on October 25, 2023, 01:59:00 PM
Post by: Oddjob on October 25, 2023, 03:45:20 PM
They are the ones I keep advising people to use but everyone ignores me, except my mate Ted of course and Nigel, you know who your friends are after a while :P :P :P
Post by: Oddjob on October 25, 2023, 03:52:30 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/76nPNDLc/image.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Post by: Oddjob on October 25, 2023, 04:00:00 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/Vs4nfPFD/IMG-3437.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/c6grhj2n)
(https://i.postimg.cc/x8dkJqPg/IMG-3438.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nj6VNFgQ)
So over the fork top on the top yoke, through the gap in the speedo/tacho bracket, round to the left of the headstock, under/over the tank mount rubber (which is odd as one image shows it above and one below, see which looks right, I suspect below as it would bend the cables less) through the gap in the frame where the coils sit and onto the carb bracket.
Post by: Oddjob on October 25, 2023, 04:12:17 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 25, 2023, 05:32:43 PM
I tried to route my throttle cables through the hole in the speedo bracket as per the photo. The cables would somehow have to get past the rev counter with not much of a gap, swooping up from the throttle grip below the bars through a tight gap near the master cylinder pipe then tight down thought the instrument bracket. They were routed better above the master cylinder but ended up part over the rev counter.
Hence why am now as per these photos.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53285405569_6ff8b38f08_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pbDCD8)throttle route 1 (https://flic.kr/p/2pbDCD8) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53284144657_bf22aac586_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pbxaPg)throttle route 1 front view (https://flic.kr/p/2pbxaPg) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 25, 2023, 05:35:04 PM
Just had a thought Ted, make sure the throttle thumb screw ramp in the R/H switchgear isn't wound up too high and is touching the throttle tube. That would make the throttle grab a little.
One problem at a time Ken I have not fitted the ramp yet but the hole in my switch gear is threaded so will look at that eventually.
I have very loosly tried my clutch cable route - from the bar lever, drops down the slot/apperture in the instrument bracket out on the RHS then through the coil frame hole to the left side down through the gap between carbs 1 & 2 to the forwards facing hole in the left side housing.
The route looks good except there seems to be excess loops of cable near the tank area - I did wonder if there is a shorter cable for the UK 500 & mine is an aftermarket one. The cable is in good condition - even the rubber bellows at the engine end looks like new.
Post by: Oddjob on October 25, 2023, 05:43:15 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on October 25, 2023, 05:47:06 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 25, 2023, 09:35:28 PM
Ted I had mine below the tank mounts on the 550 but they were having a tendency to hook around the lower corner of the fuel tank when manouvering. Definately I would say above the tank mounts can’t drop from there.
Presumably Johnny both your throttle cables were not routed between the forks but to the right side of the frame?
I think that what Ken is suggesting. Do you have any tips regarding the clutch cable route?
At the moment though not connected at the engine end, mine goes from the handlebar lever down the hole in the instrument bracket, crossing to the right side of the frame then crossing to the left side of the frame through the gap at the rear above the coils. Finally dropping down between intakes 1 & 2 so the cable reaches the hole on the left side engine cover.
Post by: Bryanj on October 25, 2023, 09:56:58 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 25, 2023, 10:32:39 PM
The only way I can find to route mine without loads of 'spare cable' is by routing it not through the hole in the instrument bracket but as it was when I originally rode the bike - the cable passes over the speedo going down to the right side of the frame between the forks. This route does mean the clutch cable passes high over the speedo clock. See below photo as it was.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53285919313_0dd382fae4_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pbGgmM)clutch cable (https://flic.kr/p/2pbGgmM) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
Post by: Bryanj on October 26, 2023, 02:32:07 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 26, 2023, 09:53:21 AM
That looks like an excess of six to seven and a half inches of outer cable,
# My route is currentky from the clutch lever down through slot in the instrument bracket coming out on the right side of the frame routing above the tank mount then passing through the far end of the coil gap in the frame down between carbs 1 & 2 and into the left side cover.
Post by: Sesman on October 26, 2023, 11:50:12 AM
Appreciate it’s about throttle cables, but includes some clues
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 26, 2023, 02:51:26 PM
Try this Ted. http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=139600.0
Appreciate it’s about throttle cables, but includes some clues
Interesting read Phillip, some books & owners seem to show/say throttle cable runs down the left side of the frame others the right side.
I am now happy with my throttle cables running down the right side - they no longer stick - it seems the cable curve/run makes for a smooth operation - even if it's not original. I can't test effect of steering as I have no wheels in place atm.
All the things I have read appear to agree that the clutch cable starts on the right side then crosses over at the coils to the left - this looks good to me.
If I route my clutch cable through the instrument bracket I have loads of spare cable looping.
Even if I route it as it was not throught the instruments but between the right side of the forks there is an excess of cable loop.
The clincher will be when I know what the correct clutch cable outer length is excluding the adjuster for a UK 500.
If my cable is correct at 4ft then the route certainly can't be through the instrument bracket - I suspect that is for the higher US bars.
Post by: Oddjob on October 26, 2023, 03:52:52 PM
I don't think it routes through the coil opening Ted, I suspect you are correct in saying through the clock bracket down the right side of the frame but I think it crosses to the left just where the throttle cables join the carbs, just before there where the frame starts to flatten out. It then goes through the carbs between 1 & 2 and into the sprocket cover.
Post by: Oddjob on October 26, 2023, 04:12:00 PM
Figure 299 shows the clutch cable passing through 1 & 2 inlet manifold bracket, as does fig 86 and fig 56. In fig 310 you can clearly see both throttle cables to the LEFT of the headstock
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 26, 2023, 04:56:37 PM
The carb shaft mechanism sits to the riight of centre so atm I prefer my route even if its wrong.
Thanks for the info on the clutch cable being 42" mine is aftermarket - I will see what the clutch cable looks like if not routed through the coil hole. Most of the manual photos seem to show it going through the coil hole area - that's how mine was routed but not through the instrument bracket.
Advantage of the clutch cable going through the coil hole is it drops at a nice non binding looking angle between the carbs to the left housing.
Oh what fun. ;D ;D ;D
Post by: Oddjob on October 26, 2023, 05:32:01 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 26, 2023, 06:30:52 PM
There's something wrong Ted IF the throttle cables are having tight turns when routed correctly. They should exit the right hand switchgear pointing almost straight along the bars, not pointing forward so much. This then points them toward the hole in the speedo bracket. Are they like that?
Exactly that is why I think the manual routes are wrong for the Uk bars as the throttle grip is not above clocks tops but almost level with them. On the US bars they would drop down nicely between the clocks.
On my bike when the throttle cables exit the bars the fixed right angle part of the cable ends means they are pointing not dead horizontaly but very slightly downwards exiting approximately 3" below the centre line of the switch clamps. The instrument bracket is about an inch and a half below the centre line of the bars but is also angled. The path between the instrument bracket hole and the throttle grip body is not a straight line as the rev counter is in the way.
For the cables to then go upwards they have somehow get past the front of the rev counter as there is no space at the rear of the rev counter due to the brake hose etc. This route is not viable for me - not to mention crossing through the coil gap as well.
You can see there are no tight bends with my present routing plus it should not cause issues when turning left or right as there is just the one gentle swoop/curve of cable.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53285405569_bb76f3c412_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pbDCD8)throttle route 1 (https://flic.kr/p/2pbDCD8) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
Post by: Nurse Julie on October 26, 2023, 06:38:23 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 26, 2023, 06:45:15 PM
Post by: Seabeowner on October 26, 2023, 06:51:50 PM
Ignore The small wire loom going near the cable in the 2nd picture. This was a standard USA mod where they raised the ignition switch to the bars.
I have three new clutch cables:
Andy Cepok UK type: 1.03m
DS UK type: 1.07m
22870-323-020 still in bag that I think is USA type: 1.12m
I also have a note saying UK type should be 0.99m (3ft 3in)
You can also see the throttle cable passing the other way through the gap above the coils.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 26, 2023, 07:10:09 PM
The clutch cable route is the one I will follow as it's how it was when I bought the bike.
Post by: Seabeowner on October 26, 2023, 07:20:36 PM
Post by: Oddjob on October 26, 2023, 07:27:06 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 26, 2023, 07:46:56 PM
Bars genuine or copy Ted? Sat with the dots aligned?
My bars are not genuine Honda so no dots to align - I have the location holes for the switches & cables so the bar position is basically what looks level & right with the levers etc.
I'm happy with my throttle action even if it's contrary to the manual I need to fit the clutch cable route so it works properly as it did before even if it means the cable loop near the clocks.
Post by: Oddjob on October 26, 2023, 09:26:00 PM
These are pictures of my USA K0 as I believe Honda installed it:
Ignore The small wire loom going near the cable in the 2nd picture. This was a standard USA mod where they raised the ignition switch to the bars.
I have three new clutch cables:
Andy Cepok UK type: 1.03m
DS UK type: 1.07m
22870-323-020 still in bag that I think is USA type: 1.12m
I also have a note saying UK type should be 0.99m (3ft 3in)
You can also see the throttle cable passing the other way through the gap above the coils.
Surely that would depend on where you measured them from? I know mine is a genuine UK one from around 1979, back then I doubt any parts depts had any USA stock as imports were almost non existent back then. There is quite a large mark on the sheathing of the cable, right through to the inner braided steel outer, I'd imagine that roughly complies with where yours passes around the tank mount. Next time I fit the cable I intend to split some fuel line and position it so the cable gets some protection.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 27, 2023, 09:32:16 AM
I have three new clutch cables:
Andy Cepok UK type: 1.03m
I also have a note saying UK type should be 0.99m (3ft 3in)
[/quote]
Those two cable lengths are shorter than mine M {48" - 1.22m) I have located one on e-bay a. Wemoto part that is 40.5" including the adjuster (1.02m) worth a punt at £12.
Post by: Oddjob on October 27, 2023, 04:33:48 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 27, 2023, 05:15:37 PM
Why not just buy an original UK one Ted? always better quality.
It might not fit (my bars are not genuine) on the routing I want so decided a DS one (22870-323-621) was a bit pricey for a trial at £54.29 plus postage. At just under £12 it's cheap enough to try plus the seller took the trouble to measure it up for me.
Interestingly my old cable still has the part number on the outer sheath it is 22870-392-000 not sure what model that was for originally. Not sure what -392- part refers to - google says a CB750 A
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 28, 2023, 01:01:53 PM
The cable is around 8" shorter now fitted at the bottom end.
New cable has the extra outer protective sheath plus the bottom ajustment shroed - presumable that is to enhance cable protection when it passes through the frame or it could be for between the carb banks.
Good to be rid of the 8" of spare cable!
Updated
Post by: Seabeowner on October 28, 2023, 07:07:59 PM
All my measurements were outer cable only, including engine end adjuster.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 28, 2023, 07:42:03 PM
All the genuine clutch cables should have the extra outer sleeving that starts nearer the bars end. The black rubber block (grey on early cables) just slides down as far as it goes at the engine end.
All my measurements were outer cable only, including engine end adjuster.
They were spot on thanks I am happy now with the correct length clutch cable, the routing is I believe now correct - the clutch action at the lever seems to be fine though clearly can't be sure until its a runner but the lever action feels spot on with adjustment available in either direction if needed. 👍👍😁
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 29, 2023, 08:50:31 AM
via the instrument bracket but could do much closer to the correct route - from the bars down through the front forks to the left side of the frame, crossing over to the right side at the coil gap to the carbs.
With my luck the currently smooth throttle action might be lost.
Post by: Bryanj on October 29, 2023, 12:44:25 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 29, 2023, 08:58:49 PM
Only if I experience unwanted steering interference will I change them.
Post by: Oddjob on November 05, 2023, 04:27:11 PM
If I spot another Ted, I'll let you know.
Post by: Seabeowner on November 05, 2023, 06:48:38 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 13, 2023, 01:01:01 PM
Lastly checked the kick start worked - that's pretty much me done on the 500 until I fit the wheels & an exhaust system in the new year.
Post by: taysidedragon on November 13, 2023, 04:50:13 PM
Post by: DomP on November 13, 2023, 05:42:08 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 13, 2023, 07:13:59 PM
I'm completely undecided about the exhaust system - if Ernie is good to me I might splash out for the 4 pipe system. The Delkevic system otherwise.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 13, 2023, 07:33:10 PM
Getting really close now Ted. 👍
Yes indeed.👍👍👍
Post by: davidcumbria on November 13, 2023, 10:56:53 PM
Before the temperature falls any further decided to check the engine for oil pumping, plugs removed, on the third three second burst the oil light flickered before going out. Took a peek at the rockers there was oil on top of the valve springs.It’s reassuring to see oil pressure is there after all that work inside the engine isn’t it? I’m fitting a delkevichb4 into 1 on mine - that’s what I had in the 70’s and it frees me up not to get over worried about trying to recreate an oem original bike - just one that looks good and works well and has my labour invested in it.
Lastly checked the kick start worked - that's pretty much me done on the 500 until I fit the wheels & an exhaust system in the new year.
Post by: Oddjob on November 14, 2023, 04:03:17 AM
Keep that in mind.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 14, 2023, 10:44:09 AM
Before the temperature falls any further decided to check the engine for oil pumping, plugs removed, on the third three second burst the oil light flickered before going out. Took a peek at the rockers there was oil on top of the valve springs.It’s reassuring to see oil pressure is there after all that work inside the engine isn’t it? I’m fitting a delkevichb4 into 1 on mine - that’s what I had in the 70’s and it frees me up not to get over worried about trying to recreate an oem original bike - just one that looks good and works well and has my labour invested in it.
Lastly checked the kick start worked - that's pretty much me done on the 500 until I fit the wheels & an exhaust system in the new year.
Which silencer option will you go for the Mega or the other one?
Post by: davidcumbria on November 14, 2023, 04:37:34 PM
[attachimg=1]
Post by: Oddjob on November 14, 2023, 04:52:08 PM
Post by: Bryanj on November 14, 2023, 06:00:41 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 14, 2023, 06:03:24 PM
This is the silencer I got with the bike. It’s new as the 4 into 4 fitted when imported was unsalvageable. I thought about spending 1200 quid with DS but reflected that this is a nostalgia project for me and the bike I rode to Italy and back in 1979 had a similar 4 into 1. It’s liberating if your bike is for personal use not to be nailed to the cross of originality.
(Attachment Link)
That looks like the Megaphone version.👍👍👍
Post by: Oddjob on November 14, 2023, 06:24:24 PM
But as its a US bike not a UK one originality relies on paperwork and others memory
Well as we never officially got the 550K1/2 there should be no memories of them unless you're from Europe or the states that is.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 14, 2023, 06:44:17 PM
But as its a US bike not a UK one originality relies on paperwork and others memory
Well as we never officially got the 550K1/2 there should be no memories of them unless you're from Europe or the states that is.
Were there not Grey Imports back then?
Post by: Oddjob on November 14, 2023, 07:31:42 PM
Post by: DomP on November 14, 2023, 09:44:32 PM
I kept a bike indoors once for the winter, it was when I was actually rebuilding the 500 I'm doing again now. It had never been run, in the spring when I was getting ready to get it ready for the road I checked the oil only to find it was full of water, clearly condensation was running down the insides of the cases and collecting in the sump, me kicking the bike over ever week or so had just mixed it all up like mayonnaise. I ended up taking the engine completely apart again just to clean it out of all the cracks and crevices, luckily I was still in the trade then so the gaskets were cheap. No damage or rust in the engine but bloody annoying even so.
Keep that in mind.
Stuck the dehumidifier on in my garage tonight!
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 14, 2023, 09:54:00 PM
I kept a bike indoors once for the winter, it was when I was actually rebuilding the 500 I'm doing again now. It had never been run, in the spring when I was getting ready to get it ready for the road I checked the oil only to find it was full of water, clearly condensation was running down the insides of the cases and collecting in the sump, me kicking the bike over ever week or so had just mixed it all up like mayonnaise. I ended up taking the engine completely apart again just to clean it out of all the cracks and crevices, luckily I was still in the trade then so the gaskets were cheap. No damage or rust in the engine but bloody annoying even so.
Keep that in mind.
Stuck the dehumidifier on in my garage tonight!
You might need to bypass the meter Dom - I've not used mine since energy costs gazumped.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 14, 2023, 09:58:29 PM
I kept a bike indoors once for the winter, it was when I was actually rebuilding the 500 I'm doing again now. It had never been run, in the spring when I was getting ready to get it ready for the road I checked the oil only to find it was full of water, clearly condensation was running down the insides of the cases and collecting in the sump, me kicking the bike over ever week or so had just mixed it all up like mayonnaise. I ended up taking the engine completely apart again just to clean it out of all the cracks and crevices, luckily I was still in the trade then so the gaskets were cheap. No damage or rust in the engine but bloody annoying even so.
Keep that in mind.
Tip: You need to keep the central heating on overnight to avoid the condensation Ken.
I'm toying with the idea of one of those wardrobe tube type heaters under my bike ramp - trouble is it would need a floor to ceiling curtain round it as well. ;D ;D ;D
Post by: Oddjob on November 14, 2023, 10:35:59 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 14, 2023, 10:44:21 PM
Post by: Oddjob on November 15, 2023, 02:42:11 AM
Post by: AshimotoK0 on November 15, 2023, 07:39:50 AM
That's stretching the definition of indoors Ken if it was really in the Cole Hole extension!❄️❄️❄️
Hmmm Cole ... do you hide Alen Milleyard and Sam in there too Ken :)
Post by: Oddjob on November 15, 2023, 03:46:10 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 15, 2023, 04:09:54 PM
Its a word association thing!
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51525835467_34da1d9a76_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mvanKz)teds pike (https://flic.kr/p/2mvanKz) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
Post by: andy120t on November 15, 2023, 05:26:01 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on December 01, 2023, 12:52:11 AM
I've been trying to paint the chain guard finding the ambient air temperature not condusive to rattle can painting in my unheated garage - bike work has now effectively ground to a halt until spring.
My seat has had a new cover but the metal base has surface corrosion on the edges where the clips have scratched the paint.
The seat foam does not look great where the holes are - you can see the foam degredation. Never been one for upholstery - my local guy Stan Chilton died a few years ago he fitted the new roof on our R129 a decade or more ago - he would have done a quality job.
I will post some pics of the seat for advice as what to do about it - if anything - as a teenager I would have just brush painted it with Hammerite but somehow that does not cut it for me today.
Post by: Johnny4428 on December 01, 2023, 07:56:21 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on December 01, 2023, 08:59:10 PM
The seat looks better from one side than the other though to a casual observer its good for a 50 year old bike - just a bit lumpy on one side for want of a better description.
The clips are LIGHTLY rusted but might clean up with a wire brush & some painting in the short term.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53369431258_3b4063c9b5_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pj5hxU)seat base (https://flic.kr/p/2pj5hxU) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on January 03, 2024, 12:41:45 PM
I rubbed off the rust with W & D then zinc primer left it to dry for a week.
Smooth Hammerite paint - just need to touch in a few more bits to stop it getting worse on the underneath.
Photo makes it look like I painted it with a yard brush with streak of brown - I must try a soft focus lens next time - looks better in the flesh than in the photo.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53440063959_88965def86_w.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pqjic6)PXL_20240103_123232435 (https://flic.kr/p/2pqjic6) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on March 14, 2024, 04:23:41 PM
I dropped the hubs off before Christmas 2023 - they must have plenty of work on.
Post by: Johnny4428 on March 14, 2024, 05:24:38 PM
Had the call today from CWC wheels are ready to collect.👍👍👍That’s quite a wait Ted! Did they indicate it would be that long when you dropped them off?
I dropped the hubs off before Christmas 2023 - they must have plenty of work on.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on March 14, 2024, 06:36:29 PM
I chased them up after the 15th February by e-mail they replied that they were waiting for the Rims to come back from the Anodisers. Time scale wise it was about the same time for my 400.
On the plus side it's removed the temptation to get frozen in my garage over the winter plus time to save up too.
Post by: Johnny4428 on March 14, 2024, 07:56:12 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on March 14, 2024, 08:24:32 PM
Post by: Johnny4428 on March 14, 2024, 09:59:22 PM
Post by: Matt_Harrington on March 15, 2024, 07:43:06 AM
Only a problem if I drop of the perch before I get them back - not easy to sell a part restored 500 with no wheels fitted. I'm collecting them in the morning.💀💀💀;D ;D Love the positive approach !
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on March 15, 2024, 11:10:56 AM
Jesus Ted! Is the old “reaper” gaining on you? 🤣🤣🤣. Hope not!
Who knows when he will weild his Scythe - as with most folk my age we loose family, friends & ex-workmates to remind us of our mortality. Sounds morbid I see it as practical.
On the positive scale I feel no older than I did last year. 8) 8) 8)
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on March 16, 2024, 11:01:50 AM
I will post some photos up later - my only disappointment was the rear brake hub that was a less than a perfect finish having a few spots & small pimples. I had what I thought was a quite defensive discussion with one of the Guys who basically said on 50 year old alloy it was the best they could do due to an issue called "Gassing" when powder coating.
In reality when the exhausts are fitted it might not be too visible - it just spoilt an otherwise good outcome.
Post by: Matt_Harrington on March 16, 2024, 11:09:49 AM
Post by: Laverda Dave on March 16, 2024, 11:11:17 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on March 16, 2024, 11:22:31 AM
19 x 1.85 & 18 x 2.15.
Post by: Johnny4428 on March 16, 2024, 11:48:01 AM
At least you have got them back Ted and can now continue the build. I had my hubs painted with Ford Silver Fox. The wheel builder took less than 24 hours to lace them up. Just waiting for my tyres now from Demon Tweaks, I bought a pair of Pirelli City Demons, they are on special offer at the moment with a 45% discount. If I could get into my bank app I would tell you how much I paid but the app is on my waterlogged phone! I know the two tyres, two pirelli inner tubes and two rim tapes cost less than £200 so maybe worth a look if you haven't bought the tyres yet.
Waterlogged phone?? Cmon give us a laugh!😜
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on March 16, 2024, 12:56:58 PM
Isn't that because the heated it a little too much? My powder coating guy re-did my Guzzi wheels (which looked fine to me!) without me even asking. He said that the pimples / spots were because the oven temp was a little high.
My hubs are okay - if it bugs me in the furure I can have the brake plate re-done next winter - the Guy at CWC was a Brummy with the famous patter so I accepted his reasoning that it was old alluminium causing the gassing problem. I had done some preparation on the brake plate beforehand as well.
Despite the warmer weather I am leaving fitting the wheel bearigs until I've done some other household tasks plus some garden work. I plan to ride the 400 as soon as the weather really warms up for me - I can finish the 500 build if we have a wet summer. My original plan to have the 500 done for my Birthday in early May 2024 has been put back a month or two.
Never say never - atm the 500 is my last full project - I've gone off the Maicoletta idea for now as there is a very small pool to choose from with all the attendant parts finding problems. Might all change when I go to Stafford Bike Show as the Maico Owners Club will be there.
I haven't the room for 3 bikes and despite it being too small for me I like the 400 more each time I ride her so I can't bear the thought of it having to go to make room for a Scooter.
Post by: Johnny4428 on March 16, 2024, 01:25:29 PM
Post by: davidcumbria on March 16, 2024, 01:33:41 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on March 16, 2024, 03:23:24 PM
PS Not to mention the Money Pit balance!
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on April 07, 2024, 01:24:24 PM
So this morning fitted the front wheel bearings in my 500 hubs.
As well as the bearings being kept in the freezer for a couple of days I warmed up the hubs a tad with one of Wendy's old Hairdriers on full heat as I did not want to risk anything hotter.
I had checked that the new retainer fitted the threaded section beforehand.
After fitting the bearing the new retainer did not want to go in by hand - I started to panic.
I saw that there was a slight bit of thread near one of the four original stake marks that was slightly flattened - probably caught the edge with my drift tool.
I used the old retainer as a sort of thread cleaner after loading it with grease. (I cut four slots across the width of the thread, wire brush and remove any burrs.)
New retainer then went in by hand after clearing out any debris in the grease.
I have a small piece of plastic speed fit pipe with a slot along it's length that I use to hold the retainer in position when fitting the second bearing. It might have been my imagination but the bearings seemed to knock in a tad easier with the added heat on the hub.
I could not find a torque setting so settled for very tight plus a bit of extra on two opposing slots with a small screwdriver blade.
Post by: Johnny4428 on April 08, 2024, 07:59:49 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on April 08, 2024, 10:54:50 PM
Currently starting work on the rear hubs.👍👍👍
Post by: davidcumbria on April 09, 2024, 08:47:54 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on April 09, 2024, 09:37:38 AM
Not done it for several decades though as I pretty much stopped servicing my own cars twenty years ago.
For the range of smaller Honda threads I have a few taps & dies.
Do the rear hub cushion rubbers need to be fitted completely dry ?
I was thinking a light smear of rubber grease might help with fittinng the outer drive part.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on April 09, 2024, 04:36:07 PM
My next task is to fit the right rear wheel bearing - my concern is to avoid any chance of thread damage to the bearing retainer threads whilst fitting the other bearing.
I was going to leave the retainer screw off, then fit the bearing but want to avoid any chance of damaging the hub thread as I use a wooden support at the centre with a rubber pad on top.
Would it be okay to fit the retainer ring first and just support that instead?
Is there a best way round to do it?
I plead guilty to over thinking in advance!
Post by: Bryanj on April 09, 2024, 09:40:13 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on April 10, 2024, 03:54:31 PM
Never had a problem just knocking them in Ted
thinking it through Bryan it will make no differance if the sprocket carrier is in place or just the steel retianer ring - same force on the same part when knocking the bearing in - I'll make sure I've warmed the housing up first.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on April 30, 2024, 07:08:07 PM
Fitted all new drive cushion rubbers into the slots with a very light coat of red rubber grease, D ring fitted using same grease.
Greased hub center it pushed in by hand but not fully home for the last 2 or 3 mm.
Not sure if it should go flush by hand or if the retainer has to pull it fully home?
I don't want to force it at this stage so have left it for tonight - tea & beer reward.
It might be worth pulling it out to check the D ring is okay - I fitted it as it came I did not turn the D ring inside out.
My rear hub tool for the left hand threaded retainer does not seem to want to fit on the new retainer ring but it fits the old one perfectly wtf is going on here?
It's a DS retainer ring.
Update Fresh day, removed the hub, D ring was undamaged, used some extra grease, it went in easier just needed to tighten the retainer ring to pull it home the last few mm. I used the old retainer as my tool fits this. No big leverage needed on the retainer just screwed in easily.
Just need to decide what to do to about the poor fit of the new retainer in the tool - two pegs line up nicely but the fourth just does not engage by hand - I'm reluctant to hammer the tool to make it fit!
Could it be the DS retainer ring or is it the tool?
Post by: Craizeehair on May 01, 2024, 12:20:40 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240501/3413fae7fe7494f616a62ba22d32b452.jpg)
If so, I recently bought the tool and an aftermarket retainer from a different supplier and the tool didn’t fit correctly, as you can see. When I contacted them, they checked their stock and found the new batch of retainers didn’t fit the tool but the original Honda retainers did. They sent me a genuine Honda one as a replacement which was fine. I wonder if DSS has the same issue?
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on May 01, 2024, 03:21:18 PM
The rear tool is a different design to the front one.
The 500 retainer has a different pitch circle so my 400 tool is too small, on the 500 it also holds the rear drive hub in place.
Update DS have tried their tool in the three retainers they have on the shelf - one does not fit the tool. They will not send me a replacement part until they have recived my part back and tried it in their tool!
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on May 04, 2024, 12:29:51 PM
I today received f.o.c. a set of four pins to replace the ones in my tool that fits the poorly made replica part supplied my DS.
That's what I call customer service.
I decided against sending my lock ring back to DS for them to change it as they were not prepared to do so until the faulty part was back with them to compare- clearly they still have the faulty ones left on the shelf. I did not want to take the risk of them sending the same part out again not to mention the time delay.
Clearly DS knew there was an issue with a batch of their lock rings - they could have sent me a replacement that I would have paid for on the basis of a refund on the returned part. This was an opportunity for them to give better customer experience that they missed.
This morning I tightened up the lock ring with the new pins fitted to the tool.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on May 04, 2024, 02:17:18 PM
Well, came to fit the oil seal in the retainer and it does not want to fit - it clearly is the right size as it looks as it will fit the old retainer just fine when I tentatively part fitted it!
I dont want to risk damaging the seal trying to make it fit so I am sending the retainer back to DS for replacement.
That's put me back a few days now - I am going to return the DS retainer ring part in the hope that a replacement one is from the new production batch.
Post by: Seabeowner on May 04, 2024, 07:02:26 PM
This is a 550 but should be the same.
https://images.cmsnl.com/img/partslists/honda-cb550f1-super-sport-550-four-1976-england-rear-wheel_big00026127f11_cceb.gif
But I might be wrong!
Phil
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on May 04, 2024, 07:59:22 PM
Looks like the 550 is different.
Definitely another seal on the retainer item 20 in the parts book p/n 90753-283-000 the left side spacer runs inside it plus a large O ring for the sprocket cover I think.
Post by: Bryanj on May 04, 2024, 08:55:55 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on May 05, 2024, 10:22:07 AM
550 and 500 same shape but later ones had a connector bit, the screwed in retainer does not have a seal, only the big tim pressed plate
So the seal fits into the sprocket cover plate Bryan not the retainer ring - that makes sense.
It confirms what seablower said as well.
I should have taken more photos and listned the first time!
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53699893614_8685e8c7e3_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pPgZuJ)PXL_20240505_084731863 (https://flic.kr/p/2pPgZuJ) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on May 05, 2024, 11:39:07 AM
The 500 rear wheel when fully assembled felt so much heavier than the 400.
Seal fitted into the sprocket tin plate after fitting the left side spacer wide end to the bearing. Large O ring fitted to the hub all in place as per the parts exploded diagram. Spocket nuts nipped down with some new locking washers fitted.
I've done the first fit of the wheel - looking good - not torqued up the sprocket nuts yet or bent the locking tabs into place. I'm worn out now for today.
I'll tighten up the rear axle to check the wheel rotates freely before I fit the chain etc.