Honda-SOHC
General => New Member Introductions => Topic started by: Bradders on December 27, 2018, 04:59:38 PM
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Hi All,
Am a new member on this forum and have been researching about buying a 400 Four in the next 6 months or so.
I am not a mechanic by a very long shot but can do very basic services etc. I get the impression that many people on this forum are very mechanically minded.
I guess my question is do you need to be someone mechanically minded to own and run a Classic bike or would I be permanently taking it to my local Honda dealer for expensive repairs?
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Welcome to the forum Bradders. You would be lucky to find a Honda dealer that will even touch these old bikes these days. Many dealers do not have the knowledge or skills to work on these bikes, this is why so many of us maintain our own. Not only does it keep the cost down of running a CB400/4, or any other Honda SOHC/4 but it's all part of owning a classic bike. Basic maintenance is easy when you know how and there are plenty 400/4 owners on here that will help you along the way. Good luck.
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If you have and can use metric spanners, 3/8 drive sockets, allen keys and circlip pliers you can, with a manual and the knowledge on here, totaly strip and rebuild reliably one of these bikes. Most Honda dealers will no longer work on them as the "new" mechanics have never seen one!
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Thank you for your encouraging replies.
I would buy as near to totally restored as possible in the hope that it would be reliable.
Are 400 Fours generally reliable if looked after would you say?
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Thank you for your encouraging replies.
I would buy as near to totally restored as possible in the hope that it would be reliable.
Are 400 Fours generally reliable if looked after would you say?
They are extremely reliable if basic maintenance is carried out regularly. Be wary of restored bikes, there is 'restored' and there is 'restored'.....the two being a million miles apart and also a vast amount of money apart, not necessarily on the price you pay for the bike but the unforseen costs involved after you have bought the bike.
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Welcome to the forum Bradders. Good luck in your 400/4 search
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Thank you all for your replies. What advice would you offer in buying a 400 Four?
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Thank you all for your replies. What advice would you offer in buying a 400 Four?
That sounds just like a job interview 😀😀😀
Do your research and homework so you know exactly what you are looking at as even though a lot of bikes are advertised for sale as 'totally original' or 'totally restored' they are not and you need to know what parts are correct or incorrect. Don't fall for the line 'the carbs just need balancing' when the engine is very noisy, if it were that simple why hasn't the seller done it. There is no such thing as a 'cheap' Honda SOHC/4, if it's cheap, there is something wrong with it. But, conversely, it doesn't mean to say that an expensive one is correct either. Same old same old, buyer beware.
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Welcome Bradders. You will get loads of help here. Good luck with your search.
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Welcome to the forum and good luck in finding the right bike. If you do it will be a joy. If not it can be turned into one.
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Welcome to the forum and have fun. Don't worry about working on your bike, there's lots of advice on here.
If you haven't yet bought a 400/4 yet James has a really nice 350/4 for sale. Look under the bikes for sale section, it's a very recent post with photos.
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Here you go:
http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,17821.0.html
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Welcome to the mad world of the SOHC, 350 four's and 400 four's are worlds apart ;)
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Welcome Bradders - you'll be fine maintaining a 400 with the forums help - key is getting the right bike so consult the experts on hear prior to purchase - good luck
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Here you go:
http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,17821.0.html
I’d hold out and find a decent 400 for that kind of money.....Dave
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Thanks all for your comments. I think I need to take the whole process slowly and not rush into things.
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I am a 500/4 owner as opposed to the 400 but they are similar bikes and a good one is a very reliable machine. Just be careful buying. They are relatively easy to fix too. One with a good engine is the key, the engines run fairly well even in appalling condition so any faults like a bit of an oil leak, need very careful consideration. Look at a few good examples, to see how they should sound and run. If you see red or see though gasket sealant squished out around engine cases look for another bike unless it's very cheap. My first one of these bikes came as a pile of mouldy cogs in a box plus loose bits that roughly added up to a bike, it was a good way to learn how a bike works. It was at least a cheap bike as cosmetically challenged spares regected by restorers are easy to come by if you are happy to wait.
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Thank you matthewmosse. With regards to getting a bike with a good engine, should I worry about one with higher mileage, say 40-50 thousand miles on it? Also I have seen some that are U.S. imports. Does that cause any issues maybe with getting insurance etc?
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High mileage is not a problem as long as the bike has been serviced properly at the correct intervals(1500 miles) US imports are fine to insure and run but if you buy an unregistered import it MUST have a "Nova" certificate. Having said that the yanks were not always too meticulous on servicing and have a habit of "modifying" things when they do not want to pay for Honda parts.
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Being an amateur I think I might steer clear of the U.S ones then!
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Didn't want to put you off, i have done "several" US imports but all before the Nova system came in. All bar one were very easy to get running and registered(needed MOT then) and the awkward one was not too bad really, i spend time on the US board as well and some of the questions asked, along with the reaction to knowledgeable answers, leave me speachless so i know they just do not understand the bikes.
You will hear of Dave Silver, if not already, and he has had repro parts made for all the fours but partivularly the 400 and he did do a lot of them up, he may even have some sale ones left i haven't checked for some time, they were pricey but in good order and of course with a short warantee as he is a dealer.
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As Bryan says, higher mileage not a problem if been well maintained but at around 50,000 miles, many parts are beginning to wear out so may need replacing anyway. This includes cam chain, cam chain tensioner, blade and guide, primary chain etc which is a full engine strip and rebuild job with all the associated parts that go with it, such as all engine oil seals, gaskets etc.
Edit....i should have mentioned that even if an engine has done a lot less miles, if it's been thrashed, which is what the CB400/4 was designed for, and not looked after mechanically, the internals could be knackered at a lot lower mileage. Thus also goes for all the other parts on the bike also.
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Hi Bryanj, I did email Dave Silvers as I had read about the bikes he had restored and with its warranty ( as I’m not very mechanically minded ) seemed ideal for me but they have no plans to restore any at the moment as they are concentrating on U.S. imports. Shame as it sounded ideal for my situation.
Thanks Julie, I would be way out of my depth trying to rebuild an engine. I did wonder if things my start wearing by that sort of mileage.
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As you are in Crowthorne, why not have a word with the guys at Hatfields. I haven’t been in a while, but they used to have an interest in old bikes.
I’m only 5 miles up the road. If you’d like to come and see my (ex James US import) 500 let me know.
Steve (Wokingham)
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Thanks Steve that’s a good idea about Hatfield’s. I would like to come and have a look at your bike, maybe we could organise something in the New Year.
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Welcome to the forum Bradders.
Worth a chat with the people at Hatfields Crowthorne to get their perspective. A friend and his son have both been recent customers there with contemporary Honda bikes but say it's a very classic type dealer, it'll at least give you a local pointer if they are interested.
It's a long time since I've been in there but they were my local bicycle shop prior to motorcycling :) they've always been pretty practical and friendly. I grew up in Sandhurst just a couple of miles away.
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Thanks K2-K6. I’ve never been into Hatfield’s even though I’ve lived in Crowthorne for the last 18 years. I will certainly pop in there for a chat.
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I will second the comment on how it's being looked after being far more important than the mileage. I have had cb550's that have a very credible 35k on the clock, totally fitted with the rest of the wear on the bike and the story of the seller, engine was totally written off internally, I mean, nothing worth re using apart from possibly the cases and some bolts, my cb500 went round the clock twice on the original engine before it had gearbox issues. One previous owner with a vat of gasket compound and a penchant for bodgery is enough to do severe damage in a couple of miles. Look at a few good ones, get a feel for how smooth it should sound. Be sure what you buy either sounds that smooth or is cheap enough to afford a pro rebuild / drop a spare engine in. A good sign is if the bikes got a few old mot certificates and they show it has done some miles between mots. If the engines got issues these generally manifest with leaks or rattles if the bikes getting used. I wouldn't be put off by a USA bike,
I have had a few import engines from there in my bikes, a lot less corrosion. Look out for wiring differences, just verify indicators are not permanently on and flash off when indicating or anything like that. A lot of us imports seem to be really low mileage according to the company I used to get spares from who imported bikes to UK to sell and break.
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Thanks matthewmosse for your advice. Sounds like a bit of a minefield out there! I think I need to be very careful about what I buy.
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Don’t be scared of a US import... you can easily pick one up with low milage, more or less complete with very little corrosion.... I picked a 750 last year, it has very low miles, runs perfectly with no work required to the engine other than a check of the valve clearances, oil pump screen replacement.. most of the chrome and paint work is good...all of the cables and hoses needed replacing but all in all a very easy restoration. Avoid one that has obviously been left outside for decades with very bleached paint... good luck with your search
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Thanks matthewmosse for your advice. Sounds like a bit of a minefield out there! I think I need to be very careful about what I buy.
The problem that regularly occurs is if you 'think' about it too much or try and find the 'perfect bike' for you, the chances are you will never buy one. Then when you do buy one eventually, because you have such high expectations based on your research, you can be very disappointed. Sometimes you jyst have to throw caution to the wind and take a chance. Have you ever owned a classic bike before Bradders?
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Hi Julie. No never owned a Classic before, CJ250 when I was 17 and a Kawasaki 305 and Yamaha XJ 600 about 20 years ago.
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Bradders, I agree with Julie. Jump in whilst you can and have the enthusiasm.
The advantage you have at the moment is now its winter bikes are cheaper. If you leave until spring prices will only go up.
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Thing is most bikes are good because the quality was ace when built. Bear in mind I buy the cheapest old bangers out there and ran them as daily transport on a budget of pence. If your going out with a decent bank balance then your odds are you'll get a decent bike if you just go in with some basic idea of what might warn you of bad news. My most expensive bike ever was a BMW with a slight leak by the gearbox, turned out it was a warning the gearbox was toast, not the worst news ever, but for a commuter bike, spending an extra £500 replacing the clutch and gearbox with all new or recon bits.
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Just do it.
Nothing wrong with a US import more or less the same as a UK equivalent to the untrained eye and a lot cheaper
You can't get simpler or more reliable then a classic Honda ;)
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Thanks to you all for the advice and encouragement. What a great forum you have, helpful and friendly.
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Thanks to you all for the advice and encouragement. What a great forum you have, helpful and friendly.
Bradders, have yo seen this - Interesting to see what this goes for - UK model and good basis for resto
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1980-Honda-400-4-CB400F2-V5C-Running-Bike-ideal-Light-Project-Ride-Or-Restore/352558801175?hash=item5216246117:g:y5IAAOSw-iZcLPm-:rk:23:pf:0
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Blimey, that's a late one, 1980 W.
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Some 400’s got found in a wharehouse in Italy, my mates other half got a 400 new on a V plate it was the yellow version....nice. 8)
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Interesting. I was going to say I didn’t realise they were made that late. Looks very different to a normal 400/4. What would be the cause of the engine running problems?
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Blocked carbs due to old petrol residue - most bikes that have been standing for any length of time. Needs carb strip and clean.
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Interesting. I was going to say I didn’t realise they were made that late. Looks very different to a normal 400/4. What would be the cause of the engine running problems?
1977 was when manufacture finished. Sounds like the carbs need sorting out for starters, he says the engine is quiet. Looks bloody horrible with that seat and those pipes. Will be interesting to see what it goes for though.
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Front end looks weird with that plastic mudguard and all the wrong headlamp / indicator assembly.
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I agree ref the looks and depends what it goes for as to whether it's worth buying - could be good basis for rebuild at right price - sell exhausts for decent money to fund standard parts
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Looks fairly solid, not too much corrosion to contend with... a few non std parts but overall a decent starting point 8)
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Thanks to you all for the advice and encouragement. What a great forum you have, helpful and friendly.
Bradders, have yo seen this - Interesting to see what this goes for - UK model and good basis for resto
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1980-Honda-400-4-CB400F2-V5C-Running-Bike-ideal-Light-Project-Ride-Or-Restore/352558801175?hash=item5216246117:g:y5IAAOSw-iZcLPm-:rk:23:pf:0
This went for too much money - £1,867.27!
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Yes I thought it seemed a lot of money. Wasn’t me who bought it.😀
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Yes I thought it seemed a lot of money. Wasn’t me who bought it.😀
Good !!! 😀😀😀
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Evening all. Not sure I’m posting in the right section but thought I would ask you all a question. I’m hoping to buy a classic Honda in the next couple of months and was originally thinking of a 400/ 4 but now rather like the look of the 500 and 550 fours (the ones with the 4 into 4 exhaust ). As a total novice I wonder if you could give me your views on the pros and cons of the 3 different bikes please. For example cost of running, insurance, maintenance etc. Thanks in advance.
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All cost the same to run, insure and maintain. Some parts for all models are now like rocking horse poo and therefore very expensive. If you are a novice to Honda SOHC's, it will be a learning curve whatever you decide on and when you have bought one, regardless of which engine size and model, you may hate it.
This link gives you all the answers you need as has been discussed recently.
http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,18039.msg156589.html#msg156589
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My first big bikes ( over 125cc ) were a motley collection of cb500 and 550 projects, started with a cb500 hardtail chopper with 3 engines in mouldy cardboard boxes and not one clutch between the 3 motors. That was joined by a cb550/4 with 2 engines in even more cardboard boxes. Then a cb550/4 that leaked oil everywhere but had tax and test. Eventually all 3 got built up and got running half decently, I learnt a lot of lessons that would have been easier if I had spent more time online and less in a shed mix and matching gearbox bits and aresing up some rather ropey engine bits. I have had 1 400/4 engine, offered it cheap at a breakers after I turned up in my 500/4 sidecar on the scrounge for spares. My overall opinion of the 2 is that the 400 is probably marginally more fiddly to work on possibly but very similar - even shares the same Haynes manual as cb550. To me the 500 or 550 would be marginally ahead in what I would look for, more bits interchange between a cb500 and 550. More important though is finding a decent example at a good price. The cb500 is prettiest with those 4 tulip exhausts. Given I'm not that tall or heavy build the cb500 is also a nice size. It's just perfectly proportioned, the cb550 is a bit bigger physically. I think the 400 needs more from the rider to get the most of it. Cb500 or 550 is great if your lazy and like power from the throttle without stirring up the gearbox. Test ride a few. Get a feel for what suits. I had one ride on a cb750, some 70 miles, not for me, too big. Odd given I then bought a r80rt, but the cb750 felt more unwieldy to me.
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Thanks for your replies. Are US imports a good idea? When getting qoutes from insurance companies they seem a bit wary of them. Is it a problem getting insurance for US bikes?
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Depends on the insurer. Mine were fine with an Italian import bike but needed some guidance as to what the UK model equivalent was and with a us bike you might come across needing to re wire indicators so they are not permanently on or something like that but as long as it's compliant with UK law insurance should be fine. I found Lynbrooke insurance brokers to be excellent, when I can afford to put a bike back on the road they will get the call. They offer buy back salvage so in a write off situation you can buy back the written off bike for any reason you can buy back and even get paid towards fixing your bike. Very cheap for multi bike, multi rider policies too.
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99.9% of insurers have no problem with USA imports on these old bikes and the premiums are no higher. As long as it's registered with DVLA which proves NOVA has been done etc,etc, there will be no problem at all. There are about 1000% more imported bikes of our models than original UK bikes and they all get insured.
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That’s good to know. I guess the advantages of US imports are less corrosion that British bikes due to a drier climate?
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That’s good to know. I guess the advantages of US imports are less corrosion that British bikes due to a drier climate?
Indeed that is a benefit but its also a downfall, as all plastic and rubber parts, including engine internals made of plastic or rubber are hard and brittle and prone to leaking.
Edit....i didn't mean the engine internals crack due to the sun, that's just heat cycles that does that, not the sunshine 😊😊😊
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Ah, hadn’t thought of that.....
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I had a few USA import engines over the years for cb500/4 and 550/4. Had one or 2 that leaked oil initially, one really quite badly for about a week from the crank seal, then it stopped leaking, think that's the one I have in my cb500 now. That was about 500 miles to go from a quite bad leak I thought was going to mean a bottom end strip down to dry as a bone after a 40 mile ride. On the other hand a cb500 engine from USA had the tensioner let go and bend 8 valves without much warning - think it had deeper seated issues though as it ate the next tensioner too - seemed to go back together easily enough though in retrospect I wish I had stripped the whole engine not just swapped the affected bits. The second tensioner luckily I spotted the issue before it did other dammage - noticed it was harder to start so pulled the head saw a badly worn tensioner blade, pulled the engine out. No worse than UK engines. The biggest thing to look at is are there traces of gasket goo oozing out of any engine joints. Is the engine easy to start from cold and does it sound smooth. Or is it cheap enough to drop another engine in if it's a Turkey. Any other cb550 or cb400 issue will be more easy to spot. Be aware exhausts can cost a few pennies especially if you like originals. Probably more than engines.
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Ah, hadn’t thought of that.....
Me thinks you is thinking too much Bradders 😀😀😀😀
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Dont worry about the engine internals, uv doesn’t get inside the engine. Mine has 16k miles on the clock, no reason to suspect it isn’t genuine.... it runs perfectly, no smoke, no leaks, lots of compression and the best bit, hardly any rust... did have a couple of wasps nests tho 😀
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Nurse Julie, you’re probably right, always have been a worrier. 😀 Thanks to you all for your advice.
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Its always going to be a bit of a lottery buying any classic the 350F I've just got has less than 5000mls on the clock which you can take with a pinch of salt even though looking at things overall it would seem right. Its a bit of a smoker on the left side but the engine itself is super quiet. It is what it is, I wish it didn't smoke but it does but I don't do panicking and will carry on with the rusteration its going to have.