Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB750 => Topic started by: Greebo on September 24, 2015, 03:52:38 PM
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Hi Guys
Its coming very close to putting my CB 750 sohc to bed for the winter.
This being my first early CB 750 sohc, I am looking for tips on the best Fuel to use & tips for winter storage, mainly regarding the fuel, my bike is a K6 but as got the K7 Carbs on with the accelerator pump.
Because it will be stored for around 6months I am thinking of emptying the fuel tank & running the fuel out of the carbs, instead of leaving the fuel in & using a an additive.
What are your thoughts ?
Cheers
Greebo
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Hi Greebo all I do to my CB750 is turn the fuel tap off and drain the float bowls completely , it lives in a wooden shed for the winter and wasn't used for 9 months this time but fired up no prob's, cheers Mick
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Drain the carbs but leave the tank full to keep the (damp) air out.
Use a fuel stabiliser.
Steve
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keep the tank full and take it for a thrash on dry days. works for me!
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Greebo. Check out this thread. http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,8911.0.html
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Thanks for the reply guys.
Problem with filling the tank is its a 5 gallon Alloy tank :o, my bike is a café racer build, don't fancy leaving 5 gallon in it for 5/6 months...
The petrol I use is Shell V-Power..99RON... http://www.shell.co.uk/motorist/shell-fuels/shell-v-power-nitro-plus/shell-v-power-nitro-plus-unleaded.html
obviously theres no problem with corrosion setting in the tank with it being alloy
I think I will go for emptying the tank & the carbs,
If I run the Engine with the fuel tap switched Off until it Stops will that be enough to drain the float bowl ?
Cheers
Greebo
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I always drain my tank over the winter and leave the filler cap open to prevent condensation. I run the engine until it runs out of juice and then drain the float bowls, leaving the drain cocks open. Leave some blue roll under the carbs to catch any remaining drips. After a few months of hibernation, with some fresh juice, it starts straightaway
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Last winter there were only 3 weekends that I couldn't ride I.e when it snowed or rained constantly, the rest of the time there was at least one afternoon or morning during the weekend where the roads were dry, and that's in Derbyshire which isn't exactly tropical 😀, so I agree with Haynes66 just keep riding!, during the few weeks when there is dried salt on the road just clean the bike well when you get back, it's a shame to leave them locked away unused IMHO. Here's a shot of my 15 year old XJR which has been used over the last 3 winters by me, no corrosion whatsoever.
[attachurl=1][attachimg=1]
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I always drain my tank over the winter and leave the filler cap open to prevent condensation. I run the engine until it runs out of juice and then drain the float bowls, leaving the drain cocks open. Leave some blue roll under the carbs to catch any remaining drips. After a few
Excuse my ignorance, this is my first CB 750 K & first Carb' bike for 10 years , how do I identify the drain screws, I see the 4 overflow pipes so must be around there somewhere.. :o... ::)
Cheers
Greebo.
PS >> I have now found the screws & sorted it...thanks guys !!
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My bikes 40 years old, I spent lots of time and money restoring it after being nicked and wrecked so I don't want the winter crud ruining all my hard work. I bought a 650 Katana as a winter hack but I'm restoring that as well (l know, I can't help it) although not to the same standard.
Because I have a company van, I don't ride as much as I'd like anyway
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I add Frosts Ethomix to the fuel and run the bike long enough to make sure it gets through the whole system then I switch the fuel off and run it till it runs dry.
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My bikes 40 years old, I spent lots of time and money restoring it after being nicked and wrecked so I don't want the winter crud ruining all my hard work. I bought a 650 Katana as a winter hack but I'm restoring that as well (l know, I can't help it) although not to the same standard.
Because I have a company van, I don't ride as much as I'd like anyway
Ha, interesting to see that your wife fell for the "I'm just buying this one as a winter hack" routine, my latest "winter hack" is a 43 year old hustler (restoration underway 😏)
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It worked though, besides, you've got to have a hobby. Otherwise you'll waste your life in front of the telly.
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Most of the fuel additives are only there to stabilise the Ethanol in the petrol. Don't let the Ethanol get in there in the first place (see this thread http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,8911.0.html (http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,8911.0.html)), job done the fuel will survive more than a winter without issues. Just run it up until its fully hot once a month if your not using it.
The Ethanol can evaporate rapidly causing crud and it absorbs water from the atmosphere which causes your tank to rot. If left long enough in a damp garage it can absorb enough water to separate out and be just water at the bottom of the tank. Mega rot and mess. Cant stress enough, please guys keep the Ethanol out of your bikes, they will also run better without it. BP Ultimate Super Unleaded (except in the South West).
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Agree Roy, here's a photo of steel left in aspen ethanol free and ordinary lead free[attachimg=1]
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Wow, that shows the problem beautifully. I am planning to do all my bikes tanks with Ethanol proof liner over the winter as the Ethanol problem is going to get worse when (and if?) E10 is introduced.
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Most of the fuel additives are only there to stabilise the Ethanol in the petrol. Don't let the Ethanol get in there in the first place (see this thread http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,8911.0.html (http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,8911.0.html)), job done the fuel will survive more than a winter without issues. Just run it up until its fully hot once a month if your not using it.
The Ethanol can evaporate rapidly causing crud and it absorbs water from the atmosphere which causes your tank to rot. If left long enough in a damp garage it can absorb enough water to separate out and be just water at the bottom of the tank. Mega rot and mess. Cant stress enough, please guys keep the Ethanol out of your bikes, they will also run better without it. BP Ultimate Super Unleaded (except in the South West).
Hi Roy
I think the BP Super Unleaded must be simular [but not quite a punchy so I have heard] as the Shell V-Power Nitro+...which I use
Quote; Shell V-Power Nitro+, Shell's most high performance fuel as there is very low or no ethanol whatsoever" www.moneysupermarket.com/.../fuel-for-your-lovin-v-power-nitro-und
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Cheers Greebo. Good to know there's another alternative. Don't know why BP Ultimate contains Ethanol in the South West but nowhere else. Strange.
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Hi Roy,
Thought you might be interested in my letter below & the reply I had from BP...
Hello BP,
I live in Sheffield 12 South Yorkshire ,
I have a Question regarding the Ethanol content in BP Ultimate Unleaded Petrol, how much Ethanol does it contain ?
Which is the closest BP Station for me ?
Regards
GG Sheffield
Dear Sir,
Thank you for your email concerning the fuel sold by BP.
Bioethanol is present in nearly all regular unleaded petrol being sold by fuel suppliers in the UK today. Bioethanol is also becoming increasingly present in the UK’s super-unleaded (premium/higher octane) petrol too; this is because, in compliance with the UK government’s Renewable Transport Fuel Obligation, fuel suppliers have been required to increase the quantity of bio fuels in their transport fuels since 2008. As a consequence, the inclusion of bioethanol in our BP Ultimate Unleaded supply chain is an evolving situation and we are therefore unable to give you categorical assurances as to its absence or presence. However we can assure you that – as required by the The Motor Fuel (Composition and Content) (Amendment) Regulations 2013 – the content of bioethanol in our BP Ultimate Unleaded gasoline will never be more than 5% by volume until 1st January 2017 at the earliest.
All BP fuels, Regular and BP Ultimate, contain special ingredients which have cleaning and protection properties for the engine. BP Ultimate has been rigorously tested on a wide range of vehicles, covering hundreds of thousands of miles, in various conditions. Its advanced formula offers a wide range of benefits compared to ordinary fuels, including better fuel efficiency and enhanced performance, , all of which give long term benefit and value to the consumer and their vehicle.
BP does not supply 100% bioethanol as a retail fuel in the UK.
You can check the closest site to you by visiting our Site Locator website on:
http://www.bp.com/en_gb/on-the-road/united-kingdom/find-nearest-bp.html
Thank you for taking the time to bring the matter to our attention and for allowing us the opportunity to respond to your concerns at this time.
Kind regards,
Judit
Team Leader - Retail Customer Care Team....
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My reply to their letter above.
Hi Judit
Thanks for your reply..
The reason for my original question is because I have classic motorcycles [so do a lot of my friends] & Ethanol is bad for classic engines with carburettors it attracts water & destroys components especially due to the fact that classic vehicles are only run occasionally & stored during the winter months.
Regarding the location of BP stations close to where I live, there is not any BP stations in the area that sell "Ultimate Unleaded"
I also have another concern about the Ultimate Unleaded that contains 5% Ethanol, because this fuel is more expensive than standard, it obviously will not sell as quickly or as often as regular unleaded therefore it could attract water whilst in the forecourt storage tanks.
I look forward to hearing from you again
Regds
GG
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I will let you know what they say in their reply
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That reply will be interesting Greebo. Not sure what we can do when 2017 comes around as 5% is just about do-able but 10% needs fuel injection and plastic tanks etc. Surely they must allow a supply of Ethanol free for classic owners even if it costs more. Getting near time for a letter campaign to MP's for all the good that will do. Wonder if Comrade Corbyn has a position on this.
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What about one of these?, that said surely removing the ethanol lowers the octane level doesn't it????
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ETHANIL-STANDARD-KIT-remove-ethanol-from-petrol-yourself-/151831596991?hash=item2359de4fbf
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Spot on work there Greebo :) ...IMHO just what this forum is all about.
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Your spot on there Mark. Looking at advice from research, removing the Ethanol from E5 should lower the octane by one and E10 by two. So if you start with super unleaded it should be good for classics.
Does anyone know the chemistry of how this eBay device works? If its genuine, £50 is better than a new tank. And 18lts at a go is a useful amount as long as it only takes overnight. Doesn't help on a journey over 200 miles though. But those are pretty rare except for the annual trip to the Isle of Man, but their petrol is Ethanol free anyway.
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Your spot on there Mark. Looking at advice from research, removing the Ethanol from E5 should lower the octane by one and E10 by two. So if you start with super unleaded it should be good for classics.
Does anyone know the chemistry of how this eBay device works? If its genuine, £50 is better than a new tank. And 18lts at a go is a useful amount as long as it only takes overnight. Doesn't help on a journey over 200 miles though. But those are pretty rare except for the annual trip to the Isle of Man, but their petrol is Ethanol free anyway.
I will try to ask 'Chemical Bob' :D
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Ethanol likes water, it will absorb it until it gets to the point where it will form an ethanol/water phase in the petrol, this settles and can be removed, the water can be in the form of liquid or moist air, this can also happen faster at lower temperatures.
Cheers
Dennis
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Found this http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/technical/2012decethanol.pdf (http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/technical/2012decethanol.pdf) very interesting reading.
Think I may give it a go to see if I can find some pump fuel ie. "BP Ultimate" that really is Ethanol free. This will show it up nicely, so have taken the plunge and ordered a kit. Will report back when the kit arrives and I have time to test it. If it works well it's worth every penny of £50.
If "BP Ultimate" does turn out to contain Ethanol, the kit will get a fair bit of use making all the petrol I use Ethanol free. What price peace of mind?
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Hi Roy & all Posters,
I have not had a reply yet to 2nd email to BP.
I hope the 50quid kit proves to work for you Roy, keep us all informed.
I think its a bit of a pain though when we have to P*ss About with stuff like that, especially with high fuel prices & with all the other added expenses we have including all the Taxes/VAT we have to pay .... :(.... :'(
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Found this http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/technical/2012decethanol.pdf (http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/technical/2012decethanol.pdf) very interesting reading.
Think I may give it a go to see if I can find some pump fuel ie. "BP Ultimate" that really is Ethanol free. This will show it up nicely, so have taken the plunge and ordered a kit. Will report back when the kit arrives and I have time to test it. If it works well it's worth every penny of £50.
If "BP Ultimate" does turn out to contain Ethanol, the kit will get a fair bit of use making all the petrol I use Ethanol free. What price peace of mind?
Hi Roy
just wondering how you have gone on with the kit ?
Greebo
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Found this http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/technical/2012decethanol.pdf (http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/technical/2012decethanol.pdf) very interesting reading.
Think I may give it a go to see if I can find some pump fuel ie. "BP Ultimate" that really is Ethanol free. This will show it up nicely, so have taken the plunge and ordered a kit. Will report back when the kit arrives and I have time to test it. If it works well it's worth every penny of £50.
If "BP Ultimate" does turn out to contain Ethanol, the kit will get a fair bit of use making all the petrol I use Ethanol free. What price peace of mind?
Hi Roy
just wondering how you have gone on with the kit ?
Greebo
Greebo. Have replied to your PM, sorry its late been kinda busy. I checked out a few petrol sources around me (North West) and BP Ultimate Super Unleaded is Ethanol free. I know it is as I have tested it myself.
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Hi all,
Very interesting read all of this stuff.
I have my private pilots licence and this got me thinking. AVGAS is 100 octane as far as I am aware and I doubt wether this would contain Ethanol as water in the fuel tanks is a disaster waiting to happen.
It is quite a bit more expensive but may well be a price that would be worth paying.
A would imagine a local airfield would be willing to sell this in a decent size Jerry can.
I know my local airfield suffer quite a bit of this nicked from the planes when they are parked up bomber racers etc.
Can any of you boffins have a look into this. :D
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Think I might have to have a re think :'(
AvGas is short for Aviation Gasoline. AvGas is of interest to motoring enthusiasts because of its availability, octane rating and low price compared to commercial race fuels. AvGas might seem an obvious choice but closer study raises some doubt.
AvGas LL100 stands for "Low Lead 100 Octane". TEL (Tetra-ethyl-lead) is added to raise the octane. When used in a motor vehicle this fuel will leave a lot of lead deposits in the motor. 100LL has a high lead content (0.5 grams per litre), even higher than leaded race fuels. The deposits left when TEL(lead) is burned are corrosive and damaging to valves, valve guides, valve seats and cylinder heads. Lead deposits will also block oxygen(lambda) sensors and catalytic converters and foul spark plugs even after only a short use. Also, 100LL has a chemical package added to make it perform at high altitude, and that isn't the best thing for motor vehicle performance here on the ground.
AvGas is blended for large-bore, long-stroke, low RPM engines which run at high altitude. While AvGas' higher octane is useful, smaller-bore, shorter-stroke, high RPM engines will perform better on racing fuel or high quality octane boosters. AvGas has lower volatility so when used in proportions higher than about 40%, part-throttle drivability and cold starts may be compromised. AvGas has a lower specific gravity so it will require a change in air-fuel ratio calibration for the engine to perform at its best. LL100 is blended with a high percentage of aromatics causing reduced throttle response which is not an issue with an aircraft engine but certainly an issue in a high-performance automotive engine. These high levels of aromatics will also damage rubber components in automotive fuel systems such as fuel lines, fuel pump seals and injector washers.
The sale and use of AvGas is heavily-regulated. Most aircraft fuel dealers refuse to put AvGas into anything other than an aircraft fuel tank. There is a legal grey area that has some vendors willing to dispense AvGas into "approved" containers if they believe the end use of that AvGas is fueling an aircraft engine. This loop-hole is how some may obtain AvGas for automotive use. Because AvGas has no taxes and duties on it, use on public roads is illegal and if found could result in your vehicle being impounded.
AvGas Tank
The Bottom Line:
Avgas may be suitable for some race cars that don't have catalytic convertors or oxygen sensors and are rebuilt often enough that the TEL(lead) build-up is not an issue. For other applications use an unleaded race fuel or a good quality octane booster.