Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB500/550 => Topic started by: beardylondon on November 21, 2021, 05:51:58 PM
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I am a new owner of a 1976 CB550 and I can't work out what this is for, as circled, any ideas?
(https://i.ibb.co/5c24tG6/IMG-3737.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZTNXtGV)
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No idea. Never seen one fitted before, doesn't show on the fiché either.
Edit... The footrest itself doesn't look the right shape / type either looking at it more closely 🤔🤔🤔
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It looks like its a pipe holder or cable holder thats come with the foot peg. I had a look at the fiche's as well Julie. (I'm a bit bored this evening) and cant see it anywhere either. On the bike that is.
It would make a good battery drain pipe holder if it was turned round to face the other way, maybe its that from another honda?
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If it was on the other footrest it might be a battery vent pipe bracket
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Looks a pretty substantial bracket for a vent pipe holder - could it have been fitted 180 degrees out with some sort of rubber buffer attached?
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Thanks all, two more photos if this helps?
I'm curious to know if the footrest is incorrect?
(https://i.ibb.co/gWPgYZm/footrest.png) (https://ibb.co/ZgYT9zG)
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Yes, now I can see the complete foot rest, it is correct. But, the little bracket thing should still not be there. I can't see any purpose for it at all.
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Thanks Julie
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I wonder if the bracket was for a contraption I had once: a switch pulled by the jiffy to prevent starting. For safety. Mine worked OK, but lived short. Where is your bike from? I mean, what 'area code'?
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A side stand switch as per USA so do not ride off with the stand down it has that rubber thing on the side stand.
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Unfortunately no idea which state it came from.
I wonder if the bracket was for a contraption I had once: a switch pulled by the jiffy to prevent starting. For safety. Mine worked OK, but lived short. Where is your bike from? I mean, what 'area code'?
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The side stand does have the rubber on it, but it obviously doesn’t reach to the that mystery clip.
A side stand switch as per USA so do not ride off with the stand down it has that rubber thing on the side stand.
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Will it be to hold the center stand?
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The original exhausts are long gone, it’s got a four into one Delkevic.
By the way where are the exhausts from that side? if it's a K2 which your signature says you have it should have 4 into 4 exhausts.
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Nope
Will it be to hold the center stand?
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Here are some photos, I know it is painted the wrong colour, it was like it when I bought it!
(https://i.ibb.co/CWf9Qqb/IMG-3759-copy.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9G74WJb)
(https://i.ibb.co/Rj1kmVh/IMG-3762-copy.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jJdP21V)
(https://i.ibb.co/0CdhWX4/front.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZBkWwJ4)
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Oddjob got it. Unfortunately I cannot consult the Parts List CB550, CB550K1, CB550K2 right now, because the Honda4Fun site has been down for weeks now, but if you go to p.170 of the Shop Manual Honda CB500-550, you'll find the specifics of the CB550K2 or K76 as it is also named. It's about the rerouting of the breather tube. It has puzzled me for years because as far as I know the K2 was for the US only and they had the breather tube connected to the airfilter case. So the bracket has no use, unless... the K2 was also destined for other countries (Asia? Japan itself?) that are not documented in the sources we have.
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So it’s basically pointless on my bike?
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Well... if it was my bike, the first thing I'd do, is to undo that blow-by gas route and reroute as is shown in p.170. Recently on the German forum an owner had connected the breather to the air filter case, but was alarmed by how quick the air filter element got wettened/fouled. When the CB550F2 was tested in Germany, Das Motorrad (which is the best motor mag in the world IMO) had also noticed that connection could be problematic. At the time, they have cured it by having the oil no higher on the dipstick than halfway the upper and lower mark. Your choice, but keep an eye on the airfilter element if you choose to maintain the blow-by gas route to the air filter case. I've seen quite a few CB550K3s that had that typical soft (wettened) spot in the airfilter element...
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I’ve got no idea what you are on about! Also I don’t have the workshop manual, so page 170 is meaningless to me. I’ll just carry on and hope for the best! ;D
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The manual is in alladins cave and can be downloaded
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My model, the CB500K2 GENERAL EXPORT, which has many parts in common with the CB550K2, also has one, be it with a different partnumber: https://www.cmsnl.com/products/guidebreather_90514323610/
It is exclusively for the CB500K2 GENERAL EXPORT and the 90514-374-700 is exclusively for the CB550K2. Both parts are named: GUIDE BREATHER. Note that it is unusual that another guide, the WASHER, BATTERY BREATHER GUIDE has the identical first number 90514: 90514-323-000
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Many thanks!
The manual is in alladins cave and can be downloaded
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Interesting, do you have a breather pipe connected?
Many thanks!
The manual is in alladins cave and can be downloaded
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Was looking for something totally unrelated this morning and found this in an old parts bin. No idea where it came from as never had a 500/4 that late. It could have came in a load of assorted used parts bundles we bought. I'm sure it's the same part but yours looks bent 🤔🤔🤔
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
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So you mean this:
http://manuals.sohc4.net/cb500/service_manual/HSM500550_15.pdf
My question is, what exactly do you mean by "undo that blow-by gas route", sorry I am unfamiliar with this term.
If I follow page 170, what size and type of breather pipe should I be using?
Well... if it was my bike, the first thing I'd do, is to undo that blow-by gas route and reroute as is shown in p.170. Recently on the German forum an owner had connected the breather to the air filter case, but was alarmed by how quick the air filter element got wettened/fouled. When the CB550F2 was tested in Germany, Das Motorrad (which is the best motor mag in the world IMO) had also noticed that connection could be problematic. At the time, they have cured it by having the oil no higher on the dipstick than halfway the upper and lower mark. Your choice, but keep an eye on the airfilter element if you choose to maintain the blow-by gas route to the air filter case. I've seen quite a few CB550K3s that had that typical soft (wettened) spot in the airfilter element...
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This pic shows a blow by gas circulation. This is on a 400/4 but the theory is the same. The gases are re cycled instead of just being dumped.
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
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Thanks Julie, so I guess this is something I should do if Honda suggested it back then?
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Thanks Julie, so I guess this is something I should do if Honda suggested it back then?
I personally have never had any issues whatsoever with keeping the system just as Mr Honda intended.
They only advised re routing the atmosphere end of the breather anyway. That's obviously why that clip thingy is fitted to your model, just to hold the breather tube there, instead of its previous place. It only shows it being done on the 550 though for 1 year, which is mighty strange.
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OK, fair enough thanks!
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Probably cos the US insisted on the recirc for emmisions but Europe complained about oily air filters
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The "Muskie Bill" circa 1970's that resulted in U.S. legislation to reduce emissions and performance in the bargain on most new vehicles.
Hence the recirculation vent pipe ?
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That blow-by gas system was forced on Honda and other bike manufacturers by US legislators. Some claim it was to reduce fumes into the open from the crankcase. I doubt that. I think it was more a consequence of legislation that already existed for trucks and cars, which in the past have fouled the turmac as these gasses always transport to some degree droplets of oil. Problem is that Honda had to improvise an extra on an already existing model and that shows. The design was poor (the CB400 and CB650 were better). In Holland there was no such legislation and some dealers would simply disconnect the breather tube from the airfilter case, if they had seen the paper filter elements got wettened/fouled. It's your choice, but know that the recirculation system does nothing good for the running of your engine. Personally I don't like the risk of other hydrocarbons than gas fed to the inlet valves.
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Sorry, I’m a bit unclear, are you saying to leave my bike as is, and not bother with this?
That blow-by gas system was forced on Honda and other bike manufacturers by US legislators. Some claim it was to reduce fumes into the open from the crankcase. I doubt that. I think it was more a consequence of legislation that already existed for trucks and cars, which in the past have fouled the turmac as these gasses always transport to some degree droplets of oil. Problem is that Honda had to improvise an extra on an already existing model and that shows. The design was poor (the CB400 and CB650 were better). In Holland there was no such legislation and some dealers would simply disconnect the breather tube from the airfilter case, if they had seen the paper filter elements got wettened/fouled. It's your choice, but know that the recirculation system does nothing good for the running of your engine. Personally I don't like the risk of other hydrocarbons than gas fed to the inlet valves.
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It's up to you. You can have it original, but then I'd check the air filter element regularly, or have it like the CB500 that didn't have that recirc system.
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This is very confusing. Do you mean original as per pg. 170?
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That p. 170 is a puzzle in itself, as we have no knowledge of any CB550K2's that actually had it as pictured. Maybe markets elsewhere, but sofar we have no indication that particular K2 model was marketed but in the US. The CB500K2 GENERAL EXPORT however has it like depicted, but... that was no modification, as no CB500s ever had that recirc. system. Has Honda mixed up things here? Could be. Note that all the modifications in that chapter specific for the CB550K2 model, also applies for the 'European' CB500K2... So we can't rule out, there is an error here. Notwithstanding that I personally would choose to have it as depicted, but that's is my personal choice. I could then continue to use the OEM paper airfilter elements and would not be tempted to turn to inferior foam air filters, like many Americans did. You could also stick to how the US had it, inspect the air filter element more frequently and see how it goes. Having the oil level no higher than halfway the upoer and lower mark seems to have helped also. Did the problem occur with some oils and others not? We don't know.
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Thanks very much!
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Thanks very much!
Personally, I wouldn't worry either way. I'm assuming your not going to use it as a commuting bike doing over 12,000 miles a year and I'm assuming you're not taking on a race track either. Many owners run bikes these days with bits missing or routed not quite correctly without any issues.
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Also, I'm not sure Deltarider is talking about the correct tube. I think he is talking about the big breather tube that comes off the top of the engine and goes to the air box , that can't be correct as the OD of that tube is massive and won't fit through the hole in the clip. I think it's the skinny tube that goes from the bottom of the air box chanber to atmosphere, now that tube would fit in the hole in the clip.
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Yeah, it’s just for fun, so I won’t worry! Thanks.
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A quick look at Fig. K2-1. p.170 of the Shop Manual Honda CB500-550 shows it is the crankcase breather tube.
When testing the CB550F2, which has a similar recirc. system, the German magazine Das Motorrad found out that the airfilter element did indeed got fouled by the recirc. system and that this robbed performance.
When it is about things that can be missed, that recirc. system is certainly what one can do without.
BTW, does any of you know why the site www.honda4fun.com is down? I've tried to contact them, but the two persons I know there, have an email adress ending in @honda4fun.com, so messages do not arrive.
I miss the site dearly; they have the most complete collection of documents. Moreover they are the only site - at least that I know - that offers the Parts List CB550, CB550K1, CB550K2. It is a brilliant part list as all three models' columns are right next to each other, so one can see in one glance, what has changed from one model to the other. Too bad I never downloaded it. But maybe any of you knows another source.
Beardylondon, if you have an Owner's Manual of your K2 (AKA K76), the international SOHC Four community would be very grateful, if you'd do the effort to scan and upload it to a site of your desire. It is one of the few manuals that is still missing. It looks like... [see below].
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Thanks, no alas I don't have the owners manual.
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I do agree with you Delta, the drawing on page 170 does appear to suggest it is the main engine breather tube they are talking about. But.... Firstly the main breather tube is not long enough to reach down below the footpeg and knowing how innacurate some of Hondas drawings (and other Manufacturers) are, I'm wondering if the top tube shown in that drawing is the engine breather tube, then the person drawing the picture saw a tube coming out from under the side panel and down to the clip and did the drawing assuming this. I think the top breather tube in the drawing is correct and the tube showing coming out from under the side panel, is the drain tube that goes to atmosphere. I wonder if it had been reported to Honda that oil vapour coming out of the drain tube had blown onto someone's back tyre and caused an issue. The drain tube usually goes down behind the swing arm pivot and is in direct line with the tyre. By re routing the drain tube to come out of the side and through the clip would avoid this? Also, it appears it was only done for 1 year, why didn't Honda carry on with this re routing on the 550 F1/F2 models 🤔🤔🤔
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That's very plausible, Julie. The bracket was then meant to accomodate DRAIN TUBE ASSY, 17358-341-000, a drain tube the CB550K2 shared with the later models K3 and K4 and that differed from the one on predecessors CB550(K0) and K1, which had 17358-374-000.
Then not only the drawing in Fig. K2-1, p.170 is incorrect, but the tube also has been misnamed BREATHER TUBE where in fact it is about a drain tube.
That would make sense.
cf: https://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cb550-k2-four-1976-usa_model464/partslist/F++05.html
Question for me remains, what is that bracket 90514-323-610 doing on the CB500K2 GENERAL EXPORT model, that has no drain tube at all, that is: not from the bottom of the airfilter case? https://www.cmsnl.com/products/guidebreather_90514323610/
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Thanks, no alas I don't have the owners manual.
Have you tried to get one?
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There’s a cb550 manual dated 1973 on this forum, which I downloaded. I haven’t really looked yet, only had the bike a month.
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Can you give us the internal diameter of that bracket, please?
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internal diameter is 9mm
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Thanks, that's an indication it is not meant for the crankcase breather hose.