Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB750 => Topic started by: El__burro on June 18, 2015, 04:59:22 PM
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http://www.salocal.com/sohc/tech/dual_disks/dual_disks.htm
Having started from the link above
with the intention to upgrade to 2 front disks
I've ended up like in this picture.
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/18/0774c6ee7e89ff0da40cbcd407e17407.jpg)(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/18/705e84ffe55c1c4f1f38476784d7627e.jpg)(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/18/d2fe19c70e205a4ea54dc0c4fb97eea7.jpg)
Clearly the gap between the wheel and fork is not good.
What's happening.
Thanks
El__burro
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Looks to me there is a spacer missing and you have the axle nut wrong way round
Cheers
Bitsa
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I didn't use the chrome plate to gain space (as suggested in the post linked above)
Ok for the axle the way around, I'm going to sort that straight away.
Thanks
el__burro
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Its the nut that is the wrong way round, it goes on hexagon first
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In the Figure below
1 is correctly shown!
I think the issue is with the missing:
2. Front wheel collar.
That should give enough clearance.
Correct?
Thanks
El__burro
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Looks like you have spacer number 2 missing and as everyone has said, the nut (number 1) is on the wrong way. The hex goes to the inside of the fork leg and not the outside.
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Ben Hiles was a major contributor to the .net site and I have sent out that article quite a few times.
I wonder what he's doing now?
If I could remember his forum name I'd drop him a line!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Best way to replace number 2.
Just buy one off Ebay or DSS?
Thanks
El__Burro
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I have a vague recollection that when I put dual discs and calipers on my K6 in the 70s it actually made the brakes worse if anything. I was told that I should have upgraded the master cylinder as well to cope with the extra fluid that needed pushing.
Is this correct?
Me with said K6, oh dear!!!!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v161/dieffe123/Bikes/New%20bikes/Old%20Honda1_zpsq4ejhf1z.jpg)
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Can't find a "front wheel collar" anyway.
Anyone on this forum has a spare one or a source for me to buy from?
Thanks
El__burro
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I have a vague recollection that when I put dual discs and calipers on my K6 in the 70s it actually made the brakes worse if anything. I was told that I should have upgraded the master cylinder as well to cope with the extra fluid that needed pushing.
Is this correct?
Me with said K6, oh dear!!!!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v161/dieffe123/Bikes/New%20bikes/Old%20Honda1_zpsq4ejhf1z.jpg)
Yes, that's correct, the gl1100 gold wing master cylinder is a popular choice, David silvers do a replica item that works well.
PS don't worry we all looked like that in the seventies!
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front axle collar, has anyone ever attempted to DIH (do it himself)?
#2 in the image below.
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/19/27e152b9b51d559eeb5620c1e10d2d4e.jpg)
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front axle collar, has anyone ever attempted to DIH (do it himself)?
#2 in the image below.
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/19/27e152b9b51d559eeb5620c1e10d2d4e.jpg)
It would be easy enough to machine up but you would need the correct dimensions, easier to get one from DK breakers or maybe someone on here has one spare?
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Probably with the following measurements:
Inner diameter
Outer diameter
Total length
I could order one like this.
Thanks
El__burro
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i have taken some measurements,
ID 15mm
OD ?
Length ? (the spacers i have just bought are 21 and 27 mm long)
hopefully it can be done
thanks
el__burro(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/19/6922873b90c05952a5333deb1e500368.jpg)
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Burro
Sorry its taken a bit of time everything now does but I found one on a axle in the shed if you get into trouble
Cheers
Bitsa
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Thanks Bitsa, I would love to see if you can measure the length of the spacer.
I have bought a pair and hopefully one of them will be a straight fit.
In case I'll pm you about the axle you mentioned.
Thanks
El__burro
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Burro
Do these help you out?I make the length 17mm width 22mm
Cheers
Bitsa
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Do I read
ID 15mm
OD 22mm
L 17mm
?
Thanks
El__Burro
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Yep That's as I read it mate
Cheers
Bitsa
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how much do you ask for your collar?
pm if you want.
thanks
el__burro
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Yep That's as I read it mate
Cheers
Bitsa
Did you find your vernier, or is that a new one mate ;)
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Trig
Naw a new cheap thing but it seems to do the things I want from it ;)
Cheers
Bitsa
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Latest update, after a busy day so far.
I received the collar and shaved it to 17mm length.
Then fitted the wheel and callipers.
I have followed the instructions as per link in 1st post.
Is the gap in the photo normal?
Also is it all put together properly?
Thanks
El__burro
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No when I played with one a while back someone had made spacers to get the caliper vertical exactly the same as the original on the other side otherwise it binds like a barsteward.
Cheers
Bitsa
Anyone got a working set up you can show him?
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i have read the salocal article (in my 1st post) many times but and i cant see where I've gone wrong.
calliper/disk/forks alignment is achieved with a few shims.
In my case i have used 8 (see picture in previous post)
thanks
el__burro
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Can you post a pic taken a bit further away? Something doesn't look right in the top pic but I can't quite make out which way the front of the bike is. Could the fork slider be reversed or something?
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Here are some more pictures.
I hope it helps you to help me.
Thanks
El__burro
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The top bkt don't look right to me and don't forget the mudguard bkt has to to go up against the fork slider first which will take up more space so less spacers.If it were me by now it would be getting on my wick cant think of much more unless I am sitting in front of it sorry
Cheers
Bitsa
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I've tried mounting the fender but it gets worse. (See picture)
I think the main issue is the fork touching the pivot arm.
probably others may have fitted a different caliper arm. (Top one in the picture)
Thanks
El__burro
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The arms I used are as below, it could well be that you need these arms.
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I thought so.
Do you have them on both sides I guess, what about the fender?
Thanks
El__Burro
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They wont fit on the early style fork slider
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Mmm from bad to worse.
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I thought so.
Do you have them on both sides I guess, what about the fender?
Thanks
El__Burro
Yes both sides, I'm not fitting a mudguard, I prefer the look without, but you can fit one as shown below, bad luck it appears you may need new forks then? or just stick with single disc.
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The "mirror image" caliper bracket was originaly a magnesium casting for Honda Racing which was supplied in a kit along with carbs and lots of other goodies.
You can use a standard bracket by maching off the "Lump" that goes against the normal slidetr and using spacer(s) to get the bracket to bolt on the opposite slider in the correct alignment. If you dont want to do this you need a pair of later forks that can use the bracket you pictured
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that picture is so porn.
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You can use a standard bracket by maching off the "Lump" that goes against the normal slider.
i thought about this option but not sure if it weakens the arm somehow.
ive been looking online but no success.
what is a decent gap?
starting to see the way out of this.
thanks
el__burro
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Machining and spacers is the way that 98% of the early twin brake conversions were done as nobody could afford the Honda Kit!!!
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i guess thats my same route.
just studying on a spare one ive got.
probably shaving up to the 4th shim could do.
thanks
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/27/09c6256577b1900ee20b0f85b857527f.jpg)
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/27/08a6b8c08f34117f15a8c8bba61faea2.jpg)
el__burro
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Those look like spring washers, you would be better off using flat ones or measure it and get a spacer made
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Yeah I know, it was just to get an idea.
I have bought enough flat washers now.
Tomorrow I'll be starting to shave the "lump" off the calliper arm (the red bit)
Thanks
El__ burro
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You should not have to shave those bits, I meant the lump under the bolt head that holds it to the leg. Try adding slightly more spacer so that those red bits just clear
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what lump under the bolt head?
Do you mean the part in red in the pictures?
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/28/70aa1fc1b1fe661af9f05f4ada05fb98.jpg)(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/28/d544647c4a13679424487d745f9c0fd8.jpg)
thanks
el__burro
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No the one on the bracket directly under the bolt head
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Where on here?
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cant do picture mods but it is the lump imediately under the bolt head when you had it mounted, sorry cant make it simpler than that
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cant do picture mods but it is the lump imediately under the bolt head when you had it mounted, sorry cant make it simpler than that
Thanks for trying Bryanj.
Could you upload a link instead.
Bolt head?
The bike came disassembled.
Many thanks for your support
el__burro
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I'm following this with interest though that said I just want to validate my assumptions:
1. The caliper arm is being mounted on the other side so the lugs on it that would have kept the pivot proud of the fork leg are facing the wheel, not the fork, and are therefore useless in this regard
2. This means the pivot abuts the fork leg when the arm is mounted, preventing it from being tightened down
3. Solution to 2 is to add spacers to push the arm out (well in I suppose) so the pivot clears but this means the aforementioned lugs put the bolt heads in the spokes.
Shaving the lugs on the forks is going the wrong way (not to mention compromising the strength of the mounting)
So... shave off the (now redundant) height from the lugs on the arm so there is enough room for the bolts. Should be no need to shorten the bolts because that space has now been made by the aforementioned spacers.
Tom to mission control - is that affirmative?
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Thanks for your "assumption".
Very much needed.
I guess, we said no front fender involved.
It definitely better without it.
El__burro(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/30/08b5df8881d048e535a6bd5d36425e4c.jpg)
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Thanks for your "assumption".
Very much needed.
I guess, we said no front fender involved.
It definitely better without it.
El__burro(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/30/08b5df8881d048e535a6bd5d36425e4c.jpg)
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Ok but the front mudguard is both good and bad in this context:
Good:
1. acts as a fork brace (I assume this is also the case on the 750 as it is on the 400...) so if you omit it something else will be necessary
2. Erm, finishes the bike off nicely as per Mr Honda intended...
Bad:
Extra material making the original problem worse. You still need the same amount of shimming but now the bolts are even further out (or in, as per your preferred reference point). This means more coming off the brake arm to accommodate things on the wheel side.
I'm only looking at this from a common sense point of view. I didn't follow the bit about different fork lowers or Honda kits from the period... just wondering if shaving the lugs on the brake arm would do anything to compromise its strength, since the braking force is going through there. But otoh you are spreading the load across two now.
Only trying to make sense of it all, that's all :)
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Like this?
Please say Yes.
Thanks
El__burro
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I think so if that is the correct way round. The bolt "Head" is the hexagon you put the spanner on
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Again from my lay perspective, yes those areas. Effectively, you're putting the metal you're taking off that side on to the other side in the form of your shims.
How much do you need to take off relative to the total thickness? Relative to the height of the bolt head? Just wondering out of curiosity.
And why does the lug already look like Kryten?
Good luck. Tom
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After making it look better (no more Kryten) and shaving off the other redundant support, I am moving to fitting the pipeline.
Is brake tubing 90/10 cupro-nickel any good?
Thanks
El__Burro
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Yes but if you are making your own and usind original flexibles you need to modify an M10x1 flare nut or it will not seal
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Modify an m10x1, how?
I've almost messed up the threat in that calliper.
I'm glad I can use the flaring kit I bought over 3 years ago.
Now just need to see where to pass the pipes (inside or outside of the forks).
Thanks
El__burro
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The brake pipe nuts on Hondas are NOT the same as other metric cars and the one that goes into the flexible pipe has no threads at the end. If that does not make sense as brakes are life critical you realy should have it done by somebody who knows sorry
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The other option you have is to use flexible hoses all the way to the caliper.
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The other option you have is to use flexible hoses all the way to the caliper.
That's what I did, from HEL.
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z244/DennisMcc/wheels%20and%20brakes/Frontwheelandbrake-10.jpg)
Cheers
Dennis
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Thanks, I was thinking to use the old bolts instead.
I see what you mean about the modifications to the bolts. (See picture)
Flexible pipes is plan B.
Thanks
El__burro
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Here is what I have achieved so far.
Is the modification to the bolt necessary also for the connection to the hose (as well as the calliper)?
Just need to find how to hold the other side hose and then I'll complete the pipeline.
Thanks
El__burro
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From Bryanj:
if you are making your own and using original flexibles you need to modify an M10x1 flare nut or it will not seal
I read that as referring to the connection to the hose, only that, not the caliper.
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it looks like that i am ready to move on the next step.
i have some oil dripping on the fork slider, i guess it comes from under the the gaiters.
ill start a new post for this issue but i will eventually complete this one with a long post with detailed pictures.
thanks a lot to everyone.
el__burro
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it looks like that i am ready to move on the next step.
i have some oil dripping on the fork slider, i guess it comes from under the the gaiters.
ill start a new post for this issue but i will eventually complete this one with a long post with detailed pictures.
thanks a lot to everyone.
el__burro