Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB500/550 => Topic started by: singleoverheadbraincell on September 23, 2012, 07:11:05 PM
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Hi all,
has anyone a recommendation for a brand of replacement clutch...Wemoto have a 'Gecko' and an 'ECB'. The ECB is £20 dearer. Having a good clutch action is important to me so I don't mind paying for the more expensive one if it is a superior clutch. I suppose at face value, if it's £20 dearer, then there must be a reason why. I wonder how much the original Honda kit is? anyone know? I only do about 1000 miles per year so it won't get heavy usage.
Just as an aside - the average width of the friction plates is 2.50mm. The manual states that 2.30mm is the minimum. Does anyone know what thickness the new plates would be? This is an academic question as I plan to replace the clutch anyway and will know the answer when I get the new clutch...but if anyone can give me some guidance on the brand of clutch, that would be immensely appreciated.
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I bought EBC from Wemoto a year or so ago, no complaints works fine.
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550?
Thickness plates (new) per Honda Shop Manual is 2,6 mm. What makes you think you have to renew them?
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Delta,
thanks for this info.....I have the Haynes manual but wasn't able to find this info (just the minimum thickness). The plates vary in thickness from about 2.40mm to 2.60mm....I take your point though. I imagined that new plates would be at least 3mm. The springs are at their minimum (free) servicable level so I am going to replace those anyway.
It may just be the springs that I need - the clutch mechanism was at its maximum adjustment level. When the bike is in first gear with the clutch pulled in, the bike wants to move forward when I use the kick starter. Any further thoughts?
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Tip: always consult the genuine Honda Shop Manual CB500 - CB550 as found in:
http://www.honda4fun.com/materiale-documentazione-tecnica/shop-manual.
Download and forget about Haynes.
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in this manual under 'Service Data', it states the 'friction disc thickness' (by which I presume they mean the clutch) should have a standard value of 3.3mm and the serviceable limit is 3.0mm.....so this has confused me further!
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That refers to the 500. On p. 141-2 you'll find service data for the 550.
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I see now Delta, thanks.
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If its in spec leave it alone mate, i tried for years to burn out a 500 clutch and never managed it!
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HI,
I am with Byranj never ever replaced clutch plates and I have rebuilt quite a few old Honda's.
Save your money
cheers
Bitsa
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my 500/4 did most of it's 180,000 miles without doing anything to the cluch internally, as far as I recall it came with a set of ebc heavy duty cluch plates ready to fit, and these are still in the back of a draw in my shed. At that milage that would be inpressive on a solo machine, mine was / is a sidecar outfit from about 20,000 miles and I genrally had it loaded up with passengers or luggage or on several occasions I carried complete bikes broken down to parts in it.
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I took the clutch apart and indeed on closer inspection with the vernier guage the plates are around 2.60mm which is supposed to be their 'as new' size....I have 44k showing on the clock - barely 'run-in' judging by the mileage 'mathewmosse' and 'oddjob' have clocked up. So it seems these little suckers just don't like to wear down very much.
My clutch was quite heavy though - I have removed the cable and oiled it up so that it's now sliding very smoothly........it wasn't that bad before, actually. I'll be interested to observe how the clutch 'action' at the handle has changed and if it has improved. Thanks for the contributions and I'll update the post when I get the whole thing back together with fresh oil etc.
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If it's a genuine Honda cable "Oiling" is the worst thing you can do as the outer is nylon lined and the inner coated with a rubber type substance and the oil swells them up and makes them tighter
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Oddjob.....thanks for your advice but I'm a bit confused with your suggestion. I have a 1977 550K. I don't see any grease nipple at the adjuster - is the 500 radically different to the 550 in this regard? surely not? Am I understanding you correctly? anyway, all the mechanisms work fine and the pushrod is in good condition with no 'mushrooming'.
With regard to the cable - I don't know if it's a genuine Honda or not, I suppose it might be printed on the outer cable. It's been lightly oiled anyway using an old syringe (I don't take heroin btw, my poor old mutt gets injected with insulin every day for his diabetes).
Off now to spend another glorious day tinkering in the garage
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the clutch operating mechanism is different on the 550, it is all on the clutch side casing on the r/h side. Adjustment is made with the screw and locknut, with the cable adjustment backed off, then take up the slack with the cable adjuster. Make sure the cable has a good run without any sharp turns, i found on my K3 it made a big difference re-routing the cable.Apparently Honda changed the clutch on the 550 due to problems with the 500, but i have never had problems.
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The clutch was the major difference between the 500 and the 550 (apart from the obvious...)
The fact that the 500 only shipped in the UK for two years before Honda changed it gives some indication as to how good a design it was...
::)
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but i have never had problems.
Neither did I. 130.000kms+
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Oddjob,
thanks for the feedback but I'm a bit confused....there is no grease nipple on the casing (I have a 1977 550K). Regardless, everything is working smoothly but I'm intrigued to understand exactly what it is you are talking about. Anyway, I received 'Heavy Duty' springs from Wemoto but I'll be sending them back. For a start their 'free' length is beyond the standard mentioned in the Honda manual - I don't have the figure to hand and in hindsight, with proper vernier measurement, I don't see much wrong with the springs that came out. They are lighter than these EBC springs and for me, anything that contributes to a lighter clutch is desirable. Anyway, as I say, I'll report on the overall outcome when it's all back together.
Caio
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Grease nipple is only on the 500 which you mentioned in your first post and probably confused us.
550 is totaly different.
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.......well I finally have the (original) clutch back in place. The springs still retained their working tension after 35 years so I have kept those. The clutch feels light but I have discovered (as mickwinf eleuded to previously) that the feel of the clutch is affected by the route it takes. I don't as yet have it cable-tied back to the frame but I have discovered that when I pull it up off the rocker cover and back towards the frame it becomes tighter. At the moment it takes quite a large sweep which projects out from the front of the engine. It doesn't look good aesthetically and I don't know if the MOT inspectors will be happy but it makes for a light clutch. The problem is though that the cable does rest on the top of the rocker cover and will melt the cable if I'm not careful. I will try to fashion a cable tie or something similar around it to hold it up off the rocker cover whilst trying to retain this larger 'sweep' to keep the clutch light.
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sounds like your cable may be a bit long, or have you fitted lower bars?
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Bryan,
the handlebars are stock items but it is possible that it's a replacement cable that's a bit too long.....but surely if a third party manufacturer was making replacement cables, one of the fundamentals would be to get the length correct?
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Honda had various cables as the models had various handlebars. US had highrise handlebars, Europe not.
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Thanks folks for your replies - Oddjob, just one thing, what exactly is the PDI, excuse my ignorance....but I did observe that the engine is prone to revving up if I turn the wheel a certain way.
Methinks I have two incorrect cables!!!!!!!!!
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In my day PDI stood for pre delivery inspection you built the bike out of a crate filled the battery, oiled it, fueled it and took it for a ride to see if there was any problems.
Hope it helps you.
Cheers
Bitsa
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We (or Bryan) have some copies of PDI instructions somewhere... I'll take a look.
If the engine revs change when you swing the bars from lock to lock it is an MOT failure.
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Agreed but like I said all cables were routed from the crate all you had to do was lift the handlebars into postion and fit them cables were not part of pdi except the speedo cable.If I remember correctly all the fours the throttle cables went through between the clocks and the top yoke,Looking down from the warning lights along the right side under the tank to the carbs.I will post a photo of it in a weeks time of my 750 if nobody has beaten me to it.Mine has the high riser bars.
Regards
Bitsa
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I would love a copy of these PDI instructions if someone could post them please.
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Here you go...
Honda CB500F Pre Delivery Setup (http://www.nirvana-motorcycles.com/Honda CB500F Pre Delivery Setup.pdf)
Honda CB500F Setup & PDI Manual (http://www.nirvana-motorcycles.com/Honda CB500F Setup & PDI Manual.pdf)
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Thanks Steve. ;)
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Here you go...
Honda CB500F Pre Delivery Setup
Honda CB500F Setup & PDI Manual
These links don't work. Can someone guide me to these documents or tell me how cables are supposed to run on a CB500? I know the clutch cable goes to the right side of the frame but is it supposed to go through the opening where the coils are?
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That was a long time ago and I got burned by the hosting company for download bandwidth.
I still have the files. I'll see if I can find them and let you know.
Steve
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Great! Now that I have the tank of - to renew the fuel line to 3&4 (what a pain!) - I might as well check the routing of the cables.
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Thanks Steve, that was real quick. I have not yet found in these docs how the clutch cable is supposed to run. I am confident it goes to the right side of the frame, but does it go through the opening where the coils sit? Does anyone remember? Bryan?
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should be a K3 page attached
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Thanks Bryan. Where's that from? Looking at the position of the choke knob this picture concerns the CB550F2/500K3/550K3 models. Funny that I have not seen a pic yet that shows the hole where he coils sit.
I'll see if I can post a pic of what I have now.
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That was a long time ago and I got burned by the hosting company for download bandwidth.
I still have the files. I'll see if I can find them and let you know.
Steve
I can put on Dropbox witrh the rest of the manual links if you wish Steve.
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I'll get back to you on that Ash.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I did say K3 on the post
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I did say K3 on the post
Sorry, I misunderstood you. I interpreted your should be a K3 page attached
as: there should be a K3 page attached. Anyway, 500s have the clutchcable going to the left side so that pic doesn't help.
This (see pic below) is how it is now. I think it's supposed to run like this.
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pages 25 and 31 have pictures of the clutch cable going between the two L/H carb rubbers and page 89 one showing it appearing from behind the coils on the L/H side, page 79 shows the route from lever, round the clocks. All page numbers from a genuine honda manual
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pages 25 and 31 have pictures of the clutch cable going between the two L/H carb rubbers and page 89 one showing it appearing from behind the coils on the L/H side, page 79 shows the route from lever, round the clocks. All page numbers from a genuine honda manual
I'm afraid I've lost track here.
... the clutch cable going between the two L/H carb rubbers...
Right so.
... and page 89 one showing it appearing from behind the coils on the L/H side...
I suppose that means the cable runs through the opening in the frame.
... round the clocks.
Mine dives in the opening behind the clocks.
I wonder what manual you have (I thought I had them all).
Side remark. I had removed the fueltank to replace the fuelline to carbs 3&4. Three years ago I had choosen the wrong kind of tube, the sort that becomes stiff. So I've cut the right fuelline (5,5 mm ID) to the prescribed 28 cms. There are a few things to observe. Remove the outside cottonbraid (if any) from the last 1,5 cm that goes over the nipple in between carb 3 and 4 or there will not be enough space and that cottonbraid will also hamper the process. Never attempt to slide it over that nipple without putting some soap or whatever in the mouth of the fuelline. Without this 'lubrication' you will not succeed.
It's a rotton job to do, as there is so little space and the nipple wants to move up or down. What suprised me most is: this must be about the fourth time I've replaced that fuelline in 35 years. It's always been a hassle and on many attemps the tube-end hits the nipple and will not slide on. I've seen the T-joint nipple going back and forwards so many times that I feared that after the process the T-joint O-rings would leak.
But after all my poking and in spite of these O-rings being 39 years of age, they still don't leak. Honda did well to put double O-rings on each side of the T-joint and I did right to keep fuel in the carbs during hibernations (I drain the floatbowls every two months, pour the collected fuel in the tank and then let the bowls refill by opening (and closing) the petcock).
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As stated genuine Honda manual for CB500-550 with wheel motif on cover