Honda-SOHC

Other Stuff => Misc / Open => Topic started by: JustcallmeMrT on January 22, 2015, 10:15:32 AM

Title: Anti-sieze for stainless to aluminium?
Post by: JustcallmeMrT on January 22, 2015, 10:15:32 AM

Hi all, wondering what kind of anti-sieze you use for pairing aluminium parts with stainless hardware?  I've read that copper grease can increase the corrosion with this combo of metals, and not sure what to use instead?  I've seen lithium grease, silver grease, etc.  What would you recommend?

Title: Re: Anti-sieze for stainless to aluminium?
Post by: matthewmosse on January 22, 2015, 11:00:57 AM

Better answers may come up, I now prefer lithium grease to copper grease appart from hot bits like exhausts.

Title: Re: Anti-sieze for stainless to aluminium?
Post by: royhall on January 22, 2015, 01:31:17 PM

Have always used copper grease (10 plus years) and so far don't know of any problems with it. However I have sold most of the bikes I used it on, so some poor sod somewhere may be pulling apart a corroded wreck and cursing the PO. :o

Title: Re: Anti-sieze for stainless to aluminium?
Post by: matthewmosse on January 22, 2015, 02:03:25 PM

I have had the copper grease in stainless / alloy issue, but only once, it may be the copper grease had washed out. But bear in mind the bike in question was used all winter, in snow 6 inches deep etc, sidecar fitted to stop it falling over, ie it took extreme punishment by most folks standards well coated in the filth of country roads with animal dung etc to make it interesting, probably I only washed it down two or 3 times a week as I was working a log of hours. In normal use I would not expect a problem. The trail bike place I sometimes work at use silkolene waterproof grease rather than copper slip except exhaust threads, their bikes generally seem to come appart easy enough for maintenance, though I have had to bring out the gas torch for the rear swing arm + engine bolt on the drz400s which had not been treated to this grease from new.

Title: Re: Anti-sieze for stainless to aluminium?
Post by: Trigger on January 22, 2015, 02:11:46 PM

Quote from: JustcallmeMrT on January 22, 2015, 10:15:32 AM

Hi all, wondering what kind of anti-sieze you use for pairing aluminium parts with stainless hardware?  I've read that copper grease can increase the corrosion with this combo of metals, and not sure what to use instead?  I've seen lithium grease, silver grease, etc.  What would you recommend?

Never mix alloy and stainless ! That is the answer.
Use stainless spokes with alloy nipples and it does not matter what you use, after a month or so you will not be able to adjust.

Title: Re: Anti-sieze for stainless to aluminium?
Post by: matthewmosse on January 22, 2015, 02:43:01 PM

That may explain how my engine mounting bolts got so siezed in that the engine cases cracked rather than release them, even with oxy acetalene to provide the heat and lots of oil, releasing oil etc. Only had it the once though.

Title: Re: Anti-sieze for stainless to aluminium?
Post by: ka-ja on January 22, 2015, 03:16:28 PM

Hi,
  I use  molybdenum di-sulphide anti-seize compound (maybe wrong spelling) on the tin it says  "dfsm compound" manufacturer is ROCOL, all screws and bolts easy after 30yrs!

Title: Re: Anti-sieze for stainless to aluminium?
Post by: Johnwebley on January 22, 2015, 03:56:03 PM

so,just to get this right,

 IF I wanted to replace the engine casing screws with stainless,I need that stuff from Rocol ?  sfsm compound

 or risk them siezing

Title: Re: Anti-sieze for stainless to aluminium?
Post by: royhall on January 22, 2015, 05:08:24 PM

Outside of the motorbike world, I worked in precision engineering (as a toolmaker) for 22 years, then 17 years in commercial heating installations. I have worked for three different engineering companies, then my own heating company.

I have used copper grease on assemblies throughout all that time, and I have not had a single problem with seizures, ever. We regularly connect alloy hose ends to steel nipples (both mild and stainless).

Some of the applications, especially in commercial heating, are subject to constant temperature changes, mixed metals, and aggressive chemicals. And as I say, no problem with seized joints or corrosion.

Although I openly admit that better solutions are developed all the time. Personally I will be staying with what I know works well, copper grease.

Title: Re: Anti-sieze for stainless to aluminium?
Post by: Trigger on January 22, 2015, 06:46:22 PM

Quote from: Johnwebley on January 22, 2015, 03:56:03 PM

so,just to get this right,

 IF I wanted to replace the engine casing screws with stainless,I need that stuff from Rocol ?  sfsm compound

 or risk them siezing

Cast alloy is different and a stainless bolt will not seize the same as a spoke. Also those bolts come in different grades.

Title: Re: Anti-sieze for stainless to aluminium?
Post by: ka-ja on January 22, 2015, 07:25:56 PM

Hi,
    I didn't say to use DFSM but it is what I myself use, it is amazing what is available in the engineering industry, also, I haven't seen any major problems using "copper-slip" on engine fastenings, a lot depends on where it is used as it is not a true corrosion inhibitor.

Title: Re: Anti-sieze for stainless to aluminium?
Post by: royhall on January 22, 2015, 07:49:25 PM

Used many Rocol products over the years. Its all good stuff. If you've no copper slip you may as well buy Rocol,

Title: Re: Anti-sieze for stainless to aluminium?
Post by: JustcallmeMrT on January 22, 2015, 09:45:15 PM

Quote from: Trigger on January 22, 2015, 02:11:46 PM

Quote from: JustcallmeMrT on January 22, 2015, 10:15:32 AM

Hi all, wondering what kind of anti-sieze you use for pairing aluminium parts with stainless hardware?  I've read that copper grease can increase the corrosion with this combo of metals, and not sure what to use instead?  I've seen lithium grease, silver grease, etc.  What would you recommend?

Never mix alloy and stainless ! That is the answer.
Use stainless spokes with alloy nipples and it does not matter what you use, after a month or so you will not be able to adjust.

Just got my new did rims yesterday and will be pairing with stainless spokes.  
The questions is more in relation to the ally cases and replacing some bolts with stainless, as the originals are pretty corroded.  I was thinking marine grade stainless just for good measure?

Title: Re: Anti-sieze for stainless to aluminium?
Post by: Trigger on January 22, 2015, 10:07:23 PM

You may have a problem getting all the correct sizes in A4 (marine grade) Give Tina a ring at TSS fasteners she has kits for the 550.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-CB400-4-Supersport-Engine-Covers-Bolts-Set-Stainless-Steel-NEW-/261743479993?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item3cf1208cb9

Also on the rocker you need to use button heads. The normal alans will get in the way of removing the tappet covers

Title: Re: Anti-sieze for stainless to aluminium?
Post by: matthewmosse on January 22, 2015, 10:54:39 PM

This is one thing that has been puzzling me, of the 10 or so 550/500 engines I have had, most have had lots of stainless fastners, never have the 6mm or 8mm ones, even old ones given me trouble, just that one m12 ? One underneath the points holding engine to frame, which seized up really extremely solid , so much so I ground the head off, belted severn shades of the proverbial out of it, got it hot with gas and attempted to oxidise it etc all with it not shifting. I did have a bit of an issue with the button heads being a bit delicate and easy to round off, until I discovered the trick of slightly distorting them with a delicate tap with a hammer on the top - barely enough to mark them and that seemed to work harden them enough that they didn't round off. Might be whatever allen keys I had were a very slightly loose fit.

Title: Re: Anti-sieze for stainless to aluminium?
Post by: Green1 on January 22, 2015, 11:44:27 PM

This is probably a job for my new ACF50 grease  ;)
and no I'm not a salesman Trig   ;D
Mick

Title: Re: Anti-sieze for stainless to aluminium?
Post by: JustcallmeMrT on January 23, 2015, 08:01:22 AM

Quote from: Trigger on January 22, 2015, 10:07:23 PM

You may have a problem getting all the correct sizes in A4 (marine grade) Give Tina a ring at TSS fasteners she has kits for the 550.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-CB400-4-Supersport-Engine-Covers-Bolts-Set-Stainless-Steel-NEW-/261743479993?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item3cf1208cb9

Also on the rocker you need to use button heads. The normal alans will get in the way of removing the tappet covers

Will do.  You know if they have the engine mounting bolts?

Title: Re: Anti-sieze for stainless to aluminium?
Post by: Trigger on January 23, 2015, 09:13:13 AM

TSS is a small company that make up sets. I would contact Tina and if you give her the sizes you want she can make up a engine mount kit ( not sure about the long ones).  They do a lot of bolts for the Kawasaki and i know they do the chrome set for the disc's but, because you have a double disc set up the bolts will be longer than the STD.
If you or TSS have problems with sizes contact me for the correct size. 

Title: Re: Anti-sieze for stainless to aluminium?
Post by: JustcallmeMrT on January 23, 2015, 10:16:05 AM

Quote from: Trigger on January 23, 2015, 09:13:13 AM

TSS is a small company that make up sets. I would contact Tina and if you give her the sizes you want she can make up a engine mount kit ( not sure about the long ones).  They do a lot of bolts for the Kawasaki and i know they do the chrome set for the disc's but, because you have a double disc set up the bolts will be longer than the STD.
If you or TSS have problems with sizes contact me for the correct size.

Beauty, thanks Trig.