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Messages - K2-K6

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3136
Other Bikes / Re: Very beautiful for me
« on: April 10, 2019, 07:04:48 PM »
Wouldn't that be "zen and t'art of maintaining t'motorycle "  :)

3137
CB750 / Re: Front brake lever travel
« on: April 10, 2019, 09:23:06 AM »
I feel that there could be elements of many previous posts that will be affecting it.

The lever travel is linked to how soon the passage into the reservoir is closed off during lever stroke.  As Steff says,  if you squeezed the original quickly enough you'd get a little feedback visible with the cap open.  Once that locks off completely the line pressure then builds properly,  if this is a soft close it will give you more lever travel.

My recall of K2 and K6 was that the lever was quite soft and would probably go to about half travel if set up well.

But of the F1 it seemed more dead and harder to get lever travel.  Whether it changed spec between the two I've no idea.  But if it did and the pattern part is F1 based,  then it could account for some differences in feel and travel.
Or just that the pattern part doesn't quite replicate the internal geometry of an original.

An original master with refurbished seals may give you a different feel.

3138
CB350/400 / Re: Head + Rocker cover torques...
« on: April 10, 2019, 09:05:01 AM »
It's funny that all measurements are notional,  we just adopt whichever system we are introduced to, with most people being able to visualise their preferred calibration.  Except when estimating pasta or rice portion size  ;D it never looks enough when dry.

It's one of those areas that can catch people out on these Honda engines.  The discussion of bore clearance being one obvious topic.  The engineering suppliers generally working on British biikes and cars never want to believe or accept how small a tolerance is quoted,  usual response is "that can't be right" and followed by "what you need is".


3139
CB350/400 / Re: Head + Rocker cover torques...
« on: April 09, 2019, 09:24:11 PM »
You're right,  forgot about those. 

They are inches diameter,  aspect ratio expressed as percentage of width,  which is mostly in millimetres now! Not confusing at all  :)

We drive around in miles still,  but buy fuel in litres.

Aren't mainline railways all the same,  apart from those cunning Spanish chaps?

And off down the pub for a pint of oldsquirrelbollocks, or is that now officially, I'll have a 568.261ml of old peculiar rats nadgers please barkeep.

3140
CB350/400 / Re: Head + Rocker cover torques...
« on: April 09, 2019, 07:47:31 PM »
Point taken about DS,  they still look cool without starting though.

Haven't seen a manual for Bridget Bardot  :D

3141
CB350/400 / Re: Head + Rocker cover torques...
« on: April 09, 2019, 06:55:56 PM »
I think I'm ambi-dexcimal  ;D

Just feel fitter in kg, and the conversion makes it easy to drink "foreign" beer without getting rumbled  :)

Alot of things are better in decimal though:-

Diana Doors vs Bridget Bardot.

Lucas vs Cibié or even the super chic Sev-Marchal.

Austin Maxi vs Citroën DS

 ;D

3142
CB500/550 / Re: Front brakes
« on: April 09, 2019, 02:48:36 PM »
Doesn't seem like you've missed anything in the hydraulic operation of it, assuming that the pattern design follows faithfully the original in regard to the seal and groove.

Another more fundamental hang up could be the moving pad being painted round it's perimeter,  in effect snagging on the outer caliper bore.

You may have to dissemble it to verify it's not causing you an unintentional problem.

Some of the rear disc mastercylinder hang up like this from the return hole into the reservoir being impeded.  Application goes OK,  but seals don't haven't enough grunt to clear the fluid back up the line to give clearance at the pad..

They are only simple systems,  it's usually one on these that leaves it hanging.

As regards dragging,  you can usually just hear them as you spin the wheel when lifted,  but not feel any drag at all if all is working OK.

3143
CB500/550 / Re: Front brakes
« on: April 09, 2019, 02:00:45 PM »
Assuming the piston itself can move without binding in the caliper body,  then it's most affected by the seal.

It's the function of the seal along with the groove in which it sits that withdraws the piston when lever is released.

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

Image (not that clear but good illustration)  shows how the seal deforms under application,  then retracts piston when fluid pressure subsides to give running clearance.

If piston is binding then seal can't exert enough pull to get it back down bore.

You needed to be absolutely scrupulous in cleaning that seal groove very carefully to make it work as originally.

3144
CB500/550 / Re: Which magnetic sump plug...
« on: April 09, 2019, 01:26:35 PM »
This may give you a source that could get what you want.

VW cars for many years have used aluminium sumps,  and so have sump bolts that may be of same size and pitch.  I've not got samples currently that I can compare to verify.  They do seem close though, I'm not due to change the oil on one soon enough to check it for you but they seem quite close to the Honda dimensions.

https://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/p/car-parts/car-body-parts-and-car-exhaust/exhausts/heat-exchanger/?980771141&0&%20&type=shopping&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxsjwl__C4QIVmK3tCh1SywSXEAQYBCABEgJvc_D_BwE

As an example of whats available in the above  link.

A standard fit plain and simple sump boot is only about £3 if you feel like getting something to verify the spec prior to committing to spend more on a specialised item.

Edit, I searched for "VW sump plug"  :)

3145
CB350/400 / Re: On the road at last!
« on: April 08, 2019, 07:12:41 PM »
Nice work,  looks pretty sweet.

What a background too  :)

3146
CB500/550 / Re: NEED TO TALK ABOUT TANGS 😀😀
« on: April 08, 2019, 05:27:47 PM »
I don't know if what you have is factory or not,  so no advice on that.

But think it was kevski that uses something like cutting compound on the valve seat to make sure it's properly clean and free of abrasion defects to work reliably.

Could use small dowel rod in a drill with t-cut to gently spin it on the seat to give it a polish.

3147
CB500/550 / Re: Head Oil Leak
« on: April 08, 2019, 01:27:33 PM »
By way of investigation,  you could go round them with your torque wrench set to same as when you assembled it to see if they "click" at that setting.

This will at least tell you if they are holding any less tension than prior to running.

If loose,  then there may just possibly be some benefit in re-torqueing them to spec.

If they all click OK,  you would probably looking at replacement seals / gasket to effect a cure.

3148
CB350/400 / Re: Head + Rocker cover torques...
« on: April 08, 2019, 10:02:06 AM »
Something like this

 https://www.wiggle.co.uk/x-tools-essential-torque-wrench-set/

1/4 drive and from 2nm about 1.5lb-ft

3149
CB350/400 / Re: Head + Rocker cover torques...
« on: April 08, 2019, 08:56:47 AM »
As ka-ja and Bryanj point out,  long term experience can encompass many of the subtle elements that are not immediately apparent to someone new to these subjects.
In addition to that,  it's the reason why flat spanners and Allen keys etc have diminishing lengths as they go down in bolt size, to in effect limit the torque applied by the user and give some semblance of feel consistent with each size when tightening.

This is effectively subverted when using a socket set with one length handle for all bolt sizes,  especially if you are using 1/2 inch drive with 10mm socket.

Even when using an appropriate rate torque wrench it seems like you aren't really tightening them enough.

I've no problem in judging without a torque wrench for non critical bolts,  but have been involved with writing manuals in which a task has to be accomplished by users with very different skill levels. It's quite a challenge to convey the correct route to such a wide range of familiarity, and end up with the same final result.

There's an old description for this " those that can do and know they can are fine, those that know they can't do and seek assistance are fine, those that can't see that they can't do are where problems exist"  :)

This thread seems to be more "behind the scenes" discussion of how the spec is affecting the final method on these engines.

To answer your last torque question Simon,  it's useful to compare the cam cover bolts to the cylinder head studs to show the difference.  The head stud has flanged nut operating on washers to reduce the torque measured from straight surface friction.  This allows it, during tightening, to pull the stud into tension within its elasticity. The resistance in torque reading will mostly come from the thread pitch lengthening on the stud coming into conflict with the nut threads which are being compressed. 
The cam cover bolts are never going to be at that level (even those size steel bolts will easily take something in excess of 10 tons of tensile load,  they'd pull the alloy threads out of the casting long before that)  so they delete the washer with the resulting torque you measure being just from friction between the underside of the bolt flange and the alloy casting. The threads really aren't being measured in this application. 

It occurred to me that the numbers quoted in the manual are not really assembly accurate figures.  They appear to be a range that "includes" torque wrench typical error figures. I.e. aim point plus or minus 10%.
That's not the same as giving the mid range figure and accepting the error of torque would do the job.  It allows,  promotes? A situation in which you can start at the extremes of error and then add some more with a torque wrench.  :o

3150
Project Board / Re: Yankee Doodle not so dandy CB400 rebuild
« on: April 06, 2019, 12:46:48 PM »
What an improvement,  must be pleased you've got that sorted.

For anyone welding with arc and stick kit,  if you keep the rods in a warm dry place (airing cupboard)  they will weld much better.  The external flux is hygroscopic (absorbs water) and doesn't work well at all with it damp.  Usually it spatters all over the place and gives those blobs seen in the first photos.

If the flux doesn't flow properly over the hot weld it will oxidise during the weld phase and not give the integrity needed either.

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