Post by: Rumpelkrankshaft on January 05, 2015, 06:52:22 PM
Post by: Bitsa (Ralph Wright - RIP) on January 05, 2015, 06:56:30 PM
Cheers
Bitsa
Post by: Trigger on January 05, 2015, 06:59:24 PM
Post by: matthewmosse on January 05, 2015, 08:02:32 PM
Post by: Bitsa (Ralph Wright - RIP) on January 05, 2015, 08:02:43 PM
You really rate them?What do they cost these days mate? :D
Cheers
Bitsa
Post by: JamesH on January 05, 2015, 08:44:23 PM
Post by: Green1 on January 05, 2015, 08:52:18 PM
Mick
Post by: Johnwebley on January 05, 2015, 08:54:11 PM
just us a strobe to set it at around 4,500 rpm
Post by: Norniron on January 05, 2015, 09:08:55 PM
Ive read good reports about it
Post by: Trigger on January 05, 2015, 09:09:44 PM
Wot about hondamans ignition system off our sister sohc usa site.This still needs the points in place.
Ive read good reports about it
Post by: Erling on January 06, 2015, 09:23:03 AM
Post by: fisjon on January 06, 2015, 11:53:41 AM
Post by: florence on January 06, 2015, 01:07:22 PM
However, the quality of replacement points is poor these days so if you can find proper ones at reasonable price..........
Electronic ignition is pure science fiction ;D and when it fails it usually fails catastrophically meaning a roadside repair is out of the question.
Post by: Johnwebley on January 06, 2015, 04:29:33 PM
through the 2 wires to make a circuit,and home to affect repairs,
but,a word of advice,I you fit Electronic ignition,its always worth getting new plug caps,as they deteriorate over time and use,
thats what causes shorting issues in the wet ,also can affect the quality of the spark,
Post by: Bitsa (Ralph Wright - RIP) on January 06, 2015, 07:36:32 PM
Cheers
Bitsa
Post by: Rumpelkrankshaft on January 07, 2015, 02:55:11 PM
Post by: Bryanj on January 07, 2015, 04:17:33 PM
Post by: peterengland on January 07, 2015, 04:21:46 PM
Post by: Bitsa (Ralph Wright - RIP) on January 07, 2015, 06:44:05 PM
Cheers
Bitsa
Post by: Rumpelkrankshaft on January 08, 2015, 06:44:59 PM
Post by: fisjon on January 13, 2015, 07:17:11 PM
All due to a huge big fat bright blue spark always fired a the right time. The Honda points system is like a wet fart (a tiny little yellow putt) compared to the Boyer. If you haven't seen a Boyer spark to compare, you can't make a comparison. No contest. Those of you stating that the points system is better are just harking back to the 70's for the hell of it. Wise up guys. Oh, and maintenance free!
Post by: Lobo on January 14, 2015, 02:03:05 AM
That said, not a big job to include... if you go this route will happily supply a fag-packet wiring diagram.
Simon
Post by: Norniron on January 14, 2015, 07:39:33 AM
.... just be aware, any electronic sys you fit will likely need a relay including into the circuit: a fatter spark doesn't come for free. The fatter spark will draw a higher current through the system, and my Newtronic H04 certainly recommended this as the Kill Switch was not designed to carry the increased load.
That said, not a big job to include... if you go this route will happily supply a fag-packet wiring diagram.
Simon
Please do Simon.i do recall u mentioning this in a previous post but I can't find it.
Post by: Lobo on January 14, 2015, 03:10:50 PM
I'm having 2nd thoughts abouts my statement "Newtronic certainly recommended..." as I've since googled those instructions... and it doesn't! That said I do remember the actual fitting instructions came with an 'addendum slip'.... and it may have been there. Forgive me! Regardless; I have indeed read on other forums, fitting a relay is no bad thing due 40 yr old kill switches / increased current draw on these electronic ignitions... and this is what I have personally done.
Whether you do / don't is up to you, and it may well indeed be recommended by your unit. Bed time where I am... tomorrow will post the simple wiring diag if you're still interested.
The post you were looking for might have been Bodds,
Cheers,
Simon.
http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,6955.msg39454.html#msg39454
Post by: Norniron on January 14, 2015, 08:37:08 PM
I have a dyna ignition on the 400 and im gonna put on the dyna coils soon.
Post by: Lobo on January 15, 2015, 03:23:14 AM
Agreed... if you're going to fit higher spec coils you probably do need to 'offload' the poor old Kill Switch a bit.
A couple of comments, having slept a bit.
(1) some electronic ignitions (eg DSS offering) will use a 'full time' live supply (eg rear brake light black lead); and in this case will not be drawing any extra current through the kill switch. In other words, such systems do not really need extra relays.
(2) other electronic systems, such as my Newtronic, specifically state that their unit must NOT be permanently live, as damage would result.... much as leaving the coils ON when the bike's not running. Newtronic thus specify their unit is to be powered through the kill switch... I guess whether you then add in a relay to offload the kill switch is up to you. (I have)
(3) If you're going to be replacing the coils with non-OEM high Perf units.... a relay is almost certainly advised.
(4) Electronic ignitions have a minimum voltage requirement, and below this 'will not play ball'. I can't remember, but it is normally specified, and around 9v as I recall. A relay suffers the same problem, ie requires a minimum voltage to operate, so don't go choosing one with an 11v threshold! (I think they're all arounds 9v to be honest).
Point is though, if the battery is seriously depleted you're not going anywhere.... even bump starting will not help. On a poorly bike, using the starter motor may drop the voltage below critical too..
(5) in my diagram connections 86/85 can be reversed, and connections 30/87 can be reversed... it doesn't matter.
I've included a typical relay link.... tho' they're avail all over, Maplins, Halfords etc... if wanting to get technical (yawn) you're after a 12vDC / 5A (minimum) SP/ST/NO. (single pole, single throw, normally open). It'll have 4 connections...
Hope this helps,
Simon
http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/169/category/36
Post by: matthewmosse on January 15, 2015, 03:57:55 PM
Post by: Norniron on January 15, 2015, 08:52:27 PM
Very much obliged
David
Post by: Trigger on January 15, 2015, 09:04:30 PM
Thanks simon for your time trouble and knowledge.
Very much obliged
David
Are you learning about electrics mate ;)
Post by: Norniron on January 15, 2015, 09:05:52 PM
Trying to trigThanks simon for your time trouble and knowledge.
Very much obliged
David
Are you learning about electrics mate ;)
Post by: Trigger on January 15, 2015, 09:07:43 PM
Trying to trigThanks simon for your time trouble and knowledge.
Very much obliged
David
Are you learning about electrics mate ;)
Good, then you can teach me in plain Irish ;D
Post by: Bitsa (Ralph Wright - RIP) on January 15, 2015, 09:09:07 PM
Cheers
Bitsa
ps even now wont be converted so dont bother to
Post by: Norniron on January 15, 2015, 09:20:16 PM
I remember bowyer in the 70s like harley over rated and over priced nowt wrong with standard set up.ROGER
Cheers
Bitsa
ps even now wont be converted so dont bother to
Post by: Lobo on January 15, 2015, 11:59:10 PM
I'm honestly with you all the way on "keep it simple"; Honda did a great job. My personal failing is I enjoy electrics / like to tinker.... and so any excuse. (& anyways, 70's electrics is just like plumbing... without getting wet!)
In Norniron's case, he's fitting up rated coils... I don't know the spec but have read elsewhere that various aftermarket coils are somewhat more beefy / power hungry than OEM. There comes a limit as to how much current you should reasonably expect a switch designed to a lesser spec to pass... and so a relay becomes a necessary evil in such cases.
In the case of a breakdown attributed to a relay failure in this case.... a very simple roadside fix would be to disconnect #86 & #87 from the relay & then connect them together.... the kill switch will now feed both the coils & Electronic ignition directly.... ie we're back to the original wiring. Perhaps David, mark those two connections with dayglow or something & put a connector spade in the toolkit! (tho' modern relays rarely fail)
(or #30 to #87 would work... the ignition will now be permanently live... ie if the kill switch failed this would also be a get-you-home)
Simon.
Post by: fisjon on January 17, 2015, 03:19:39 PM
The engine started up instantly as you pushed the button, no delay.
The exhaust sounded crisper.
Throttle response was positive with no flat spots or hesitation.
Considering the CB650 came with electronic ignition as standard the difference between the two was a revelation.
It was like having an extra 100cc added to the bike.
I've used strobes and dwell meters to set up points/ignition but it doesn't matter how good you are you will not get the same performance improvements that will come with a full electronic system. If you take you time and put it in carefully you can then forget it, no maintenance required.
Don't be a dinosaur, go get a Boyer.
Post by: Bitsa (Ralph Wright - RIP) on January 17, 2015, 06:44:49 PM
Cheers
Bitsa
Post by: Rumpelkrankshaft on January 25, 2015, 06:46:07 PM
Post by: Bitsa (Ralph Wright - RIP) on January 25, 2015, 06:51:02 PM
Cheers
Bitsa
Post by: LesterPiglet on January 25, 2015, 10:11:21 PM
Post by: Norniron on January 25, 2015, 10:40:33 PM
Hello chaps. In a bit late. I have the Hondaman unit (from US site) in my bike and I would recommend it. Cheap as well as having a great warranty. I noticed how easy the bike started when I installed it.Yes les,i think i will order a few of these.only read good things about these,no bad
Post by: Trigger on January 25, 2015, 10:55:09 PM
Hello chaps. In a bit late. I have the Hondaman unit (from US site) in my bike and I would recommend it. Cheap as well as having a great warranty. I noticed how easy the bike started when I installed it.Yes les,i think i will order a few of these.only read good things about these,no bad
I can not see the point in using the Hondaman system when you still have the points. If the backing plate warps it has to be replace for it to work but, i am still not sure if the points are worn out if the Hondaman system will still work. So it seems like the Hondaman system is just a boost to the points.
Post by: Bryanj on January 26, 2015, 07:40:43 AM
Post by: Trigger on January 26, 2015, 09:05:06 AM
Trigger the Hondaman system drops the points voltage tp a negligible ammount so the contact surfaces dont arc or wear, yes the heel still wears but after initial bedding in that too is normally negligible
Cheers Bryan, that is a bit clearer on how it works. I knew someone that had problems with his points and bought one thinking it would cure all this problems. It was still the same problem until he fitted a new plate and points. This is why i said that i could not see the point when it worked out a little expensive when you take into the Hondaman system and a new plate with points. When he could of fitted a Dyna cheaper.
Post by: matthewmosse on January 26, 2015, 09:19:56 AM
Post by: Bryanj on January 26, 2015, 04:35:46 PM
Post by: Bitsa (Ralph Wright - RIP) on January 26, 2015, 07:03:38 PM
Cheers
Bitsa
Post by: JustcallmeMrT on January 26, 2015, 10:03:27 PM
Nothing like reading a few threads to feel ignorant again! ☺
Post by: Norniron on January 26, 2015, 10:17:08 PM
I've been reading along here and trying to get my head around the electrics. My coils are done and need to be replaced, so was considering a set of dyna coils - would these stronger coils impact the standard points system? Does more current then run through the points, thus making the Hondaman setup a good idea?
Nothing like reading a few threads to feel ignorant again! ☺
Post by: Trigger on January 26, 2015, 10:30:19 PM
I've been reading along here and trying to get my head around the electrics. My coils are done and need to be replaced, so was considering a set of dyna coils - would these stronger coils impact the standard points system? Does more current then run through the points, thus making the Hondaman setup a good idea?
Nothing like reading a few threads to feel ignorant again! ☺
Is this the statement that Hondaman wrote ;D
Post by: JustcallmeMrT on January 26, 2015, 10:32:54 PM
Post by: Bryanj on January 27, 2015, 08:10:41 AM
Post by: Bitsa (Ralph Wright - RIP) on January 27, 2015, 09:08:10 AM
Bitsa
Post by: SteveD CB500K0 on January 27, 2015, 09:40:46 AM
Is this the statement that Hondaman wrote ;D
Can't be.
The whole point about high performance coils is that they offer a lower impedence and hence generate a higher current when active. The voltage in the secondary (HT leads in this case) is a function of the rate of change of the current (not the level of current itself).
When the points open, the current in the coils falls at a huge rate (1000's of Amps per second) and the large HT voltage is generated in the secondary.
Cutting the current back down to standard won't give you a fatter spark unless the secondary has more copper turns.
When the points are closed, the higher current flows through the coil. It doesn't generate anything at that stage - just burns power!
Steve (BSc Eng University of Sussex 1976-79)
I could do the differential calculus back then...
Post by: Nurse Julie on January 27, 2015, 09:56:48 AM
Julie
MSc BSc(Hons) RGN
Post by: AshimotoK0 on January 27, 2015, 11:19:08 AM
Ash
Post by: mike the bike on January 27, 2015, 12:49:32 PM
Anyway, I fitted a dyna system as well as Dyna coils a few years back. It now pulls like a train going up hill. The new coils are also rain proof - the OEM ones used to suffer from getting wet, despite all the sealant.
What I like about the Dyna is there's no extra box of electronics to wire in; it's all on the points plate. I had to add an extra lead to supply 12v to the points plate but that was it.
Post by: Norniron on January 27, 2015, 07:19:33 PM
I copied it from his sohc shop page so i presume it is
Is this the statement that Hondaman wrote ;D
Can't be.
The whole point about high performance coils is that they offer a lower impedence and hence generate a higher current when active. The voltage in the secondary (HT leads in this case) is a function of the rate of change of the current (not the level of current itself).
When the points open, the current in the coils falls at a huge rate (1000's of Amps per second) and the large HT voltage is generated in the secondary.
Cutting the current back down to standard won't give you a fatter spark unless the secondary has more copper turns.
When the points are closed, the higher current flows through the coil. It doesn't generate anything at that stage - just burns power!
Steve (BSc Eng University of Sussex 1976-79)
I could do the differential calculus back then...
Post by: Trigger on January 27, 2015, 07:23:54 PM
I copied it from his sohc shop page so i presume it is
Is this the statement that Hondaman wrote ;D
Can't be.
The whole point about high performance coils is that they offer a lower impedence and hence generate a higher current when active. The voltage in the secondary (HT leads in this case) is a function of the rate of change of the current (not the level of current itself).
When the points open, the current in the coils falls at a huge rate (1000's of Amps per second) and the large HT voltage is generated in the secondary.
Cutting the current back down to standard won't give you a fatter spark unless the secondary has more copper turns.
When the points are closed, the higher current flows through the coil. It doesn't generate anything at that stage - just burns power!
Steve (BSc Eng University of Sussex 1976-79)
I could do the differential calculus back then...
;D ;D ;D
Post by: bomber on January 27, 2015, 08:45:23 PM
I thought the answer is simply pay another 99 to DS for electronic ignition... how wrong I was.
Still since I don't have 99 so I have to use original ignition, and it seems it is not a bad idea after all!
Post by: Norniron on January 27, 2015, 09:26:20 PM
I'm so, glad there is someone who struggling with understanding it too.I bought one from ds for the 400.i had to send it back,really really bad quality.
I thought the answer is simply pay another 99 to DS for electronic ignition... how wrong I was.
Still since I don't have 99 so I have to use original ignition, and it seems it is not a bad idea after all!
It was worth paying an extra £25 for the dyna s
Post by: LesterPiglet on January 27, 2015, 11:24:47 PM
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0
Post by: Lobo on January 28, 2015, 09:41:13 AM
Happy with a UK Newtronic system @ £117 which dispenses with the points but keeps the advance / retard unit & the OEM coils.
Post by: bomber on January 28, 2015, 11:21:56 AM
Pictures of Dyna S show neet black plastic parts, while DS is all open, which is not ideal and prone for damage, but thats all.
It looks less protected I suppose it is saving some money.
Is it not working properly?
Please explain in plain language.
Thank you