Post by: Oddjob on June 17, 2023, 03:57:19 PM
I looked online on advise on how to measure an O-Ring, looked easy enough but nope that didn't work. The 47mm O-Ring now measures 52mm, the 19.4mm is the closest to being correct at 20mm, the 14mm is now 15mm. The other problem is, if the diameter has changed so has the section, being squashed distorts them over time. I measured them all and wrote down what I thought they were, then I remembered having a genuine bottom end set in the loft, so that came out and I measured a brand new non distorted O-Ring and they were quite different. None of the measurements I'd carefully taken were correct, which means the one not even listed will have to be carefully thought about. It's now a loose fit on the top of the pump, it fits inside the cap just fine but there doesn't seem to be any compression taking place when the cap is fitted with the old O-Ring, I reckon it must have been a tightish fit around the flange on the top of the oil pump when new, it must be slightly taller than the flange as well or it wouldn't seal too well.
So now I have some on order, I've done a few choices for the cap O-Ring, I'll see which one I feel is best.
One word of caution on buying none genuine Honda O-Rings, first off they are all nitrile rings (AFAIK) and unless the ring comes into contact with petrol that should be just fine to keep using. Viton is usually harder to compress, not a huge difference TBH, a normal ring is 70 and Viton tends to be 75 or 80. A number of the genuine Honda rings are also really odd sizes, that can normally mean they aren't available to buy from a UK manufacturer, the tappet cover is one, which is also the same ring as the inlet manifold rubbers, on a tappet cover is not absolutely vital to get a perfect seal but on an inlet manifold that's another matter. The one I was given to fit was so bad I ended up robbing an old one from a tappet cover and fitting the new one there instead. You cannot buy these rings off the shelf, you have to have them made specially and the minimum order is normally 500. It's the same for the pressure relief valve cap on the oil pump, it's such an odd size they don't make it anymore. Incidentally it's also the same ring that fitted to the 3 oil gallery bungs in the crankcase, that's why there are 4 of them in the gasket kit. You'd need to order 500 specially to get a perfect fit, that can be expensive.
I'm in contact with a large UK manufacturer of O-Rings about getting some rings specially made for me, tappet covers and inlet manifolds will be one, the relief valve and oil gallery plugs will be another if I feel my replacement doesn't fit the bill well enough.
Post by: Orcade-Ian on June 17, 2023, 06:14:20 PM
Not sure if this might be useful but many years ago I wanted to re-furbish my Lake and Elliot Trojan trolley jack which was failing due to deterioration of seals (I bought it new in the early 80's). My seals were special and most places needed an order of 1000 units. I contacted Barnwell services in Birmingham and they made some for me. Might be worth a call or email
(web site http://www.barnwell.co.uk/) They were very helpful and not expensive either.
Ian
This is the story of the jack
http://www.stallard-engineering.co.uk/stories/other/Trolley%20Jack.htm
Post by: Oddjob on June 17, 2023, 06:41:57 PM
Nice try though Ian, thanks. I may contact them to see if they can price up some specially made ones though, depending on the price I get from my other source, who BTW are very big in manufacturing them. Their range is very big and even they don't stock the ones I need in most cases.
Post by: Bryanj on June 17, 2023, 10:06:36 PM
Thicker holds the cover too far off and pressure drops, smaller leaks.
There is honda O ring that size used in a Goldwing.
I have a very early parts book that gives O ring sizes, even the carb seperate ones with sizes and part numbers.
Post by: Oddjob on June 17, 2023, 10:19:04 PM
I'd love to see that parts book Bryan, never even heard of that being around, saying that I bet the partsman knew about it. If you have a copy of it anywhere please send it to me.
Post by: Bryanj on June 18, 2023, 02:32:54 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on June 18, 2023, 08:59:19 AM
Ken,Your Jack story reminds me of my first trolley jack a used Bradbury that I bought back in 1978 for £40 with a slight creep. Local motor factors fitted new seals that lasted until around 1995 when the creep returned. Repaired again for by a mates contacts foc. It gave out completely about 5 years ago. Ended up with a CostCo replacement that is about a quarter of the weight.
Not sure if this might be useful but many years ago I wanted to re-furbish my Lake and Elliot Trojan trolley jack which was failing due to deterioration of seals (I bought it new in the early 80's). My seals were special and most places needed an order of 1000 units. I contacted Barnwell services in Birmingham and they made some for me. Might be worth a call or email
(web site http://www.barnwell.co.uk/) They were very helpful and not expensive either.
Ian
This is the story of the jack
http://www.stallard-engineering.co.uk/stories/other/Trolley%20Jack.htm
Post by: davidcumbria on June 19, 2023, 08:54:37 AM
Post by: Oddjob on June 19, 2023, 02:59:23 PM
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/293213824316?hash=item4444e7e53c:g:eD8AAOSwz6Bdb7yV&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4MsAP9ribbu6qNn%2BAzCFoCoIM8V0xhO6Sq%2BEGAlhMqWAU9E94lo%2Bxyzho6AEPib9W6APtLnHydKb%2FEJt7uUhTYArP9ZprxbwXbIr6dZTvOa7LPh%2BegaTQFrWLoVQ3GKy8mkRJXdELFF4j%2B%2FdhBDVSTs6l35MjBf0xj7cv9BNRa%2FU6xSho6vDkEcCcwzNMOTCkm5C%2Fw9OI%2Brpq6AZYZycEvKdXL%2B9fS7WUBEjJbTGEJTOuyp%2BmuZCRGLUaE35Zz1ktEZDWaGGNbjX4uS6aUhYAWZ155huFOhixBkdR5zmo7GH%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR_qUvL6aYg
Looked at that list Bryan, interesting. It doesn't however show the ring behind the oil pump cover and lots of the others are still missing parts of the sizes, tappet covers for instance are still shown as 30.8, no section, as are the 2 on the pump and quite a few others. The float bowl drain screw is also missing the section. I wonder if Yamada (makers of the oil pump) is still in business? a quick email to them would solve the question, if they answered of course.
Seems they are, sent them an email, lets see if they reply.
Post by: Oddjob on June 21, 2023, 03:53:00 PM
I'll send a complete set to a mate who's running this type of oil pump and ask him to test them to see if they leak. As the large O-Ring and the smaller dowel O-Rings are the exact size I'm not expecting any problems, the relief valve one is also a very good fit but is a close size not the exact size, that should be ok but I've got a quote for some specially made the exact size needed and the price difference is 2p so might as well go for the exact size, it's the cover ring I want to check, just to be safe.
If they work as expected I'll sell a complete kit for the 500/550 oil pump for £10 inc P&P.
If anyone wants some O-Rings for the 3 oil gallery plugs on the lower crankcase, I'll be selling them as well (not the one behind the generator, that's a different size, 91319-300-000, 8 euros at CMS, £9.94 at DS), part number 91315-044-000, seems to fit all the fours. CMS are charging £2.06 each, DS £2.04 each, plus P&P which we all know makes these bloody expensive if that's all you need. I'll do all 3 and include the one behind the generator so all 4 for £6 inc P&P.
I'll also being having some tappet cover and inlet manifold O-Rings made, the EXACT size, not as close as you can buy off the shelf like most Ebay sellers, 8 for £5 inc P&P or 12 for £8 inc P&P. I'll let you know when all these offers are available.
Post by: davidcumbria on June 21, 2023, 08:01:43 PM
Post by: Trigger on June 21, 2023, 11:23:17 PM
O-Rings arrived today for the oil pump. The difference between the old and the new when laid side by side or over the top of each other is noticeable. I got 3 different sizes for the O-Ring under the cap and the one I thought it would be wasn't the best fit. It did fit but wasn't to my liking, I think I've got the clearance bob on, with the cover laid in place with no O-Ring fitted and it turned you can hear metal to metal contact, with an O-Ring in place you cannot so it's clearly holding the surfaces apart.
I'll send a complete set to a mate who's running this type of oil pump and ask him to test them to see if they leak. As the large O-Ring and the smaller dowel O-Rings are the exact size I'm not expecting any problems, the relief valve one is also a very good fit but is a close size not the exact size, that should be ok but I've got a quote for some specially made the exact size needed and the price difference is 2p so might as well go for the exact size, it's the cover ring I want to check, just to be safe.
If they work as expected I'll sell a complete kit for the 500/550 oil pump for £10 inc P&P.
If anyone wants some O-Rings for the 3 oil gallery plugs on the lower crankcase, I'll be selling them as well (not the one behind the generator, that's a different size, 91319-300-000, 8 euros at CMS, £9.94 at DS), part number 91315-044-000, seems to fit all the fours. CMS are charging £2.06 each, DS £2.04 each, plus P&P which we all know makes these bloody expensive if that's all you need. I'll do all 3 and include the one behind the generator so all 4 for £6 inc P&P.
I'll also being having some tappet cover and inlet manifold O-Rings made, the EXACT size, not as close as you can buy off the shelf like most Ebay sellers, 8 for £5 inc P&P or 12 for £8 inc P&P. I'll let you know when all these offers are available.
Seems a lot of effort when, Nurse Julie already sells all these o'rings cheaper with a 10% discount to forum members for 10 years now.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/166185519025
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/166185952380
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/166025470941
And most engine single o'rings
Post by: Oddjob on June 22, 2023, 03:46:53 PM
His problem was his carbs, the bike was hard to start, ran poorly and was generally a bitch to get running. A lot caused no doubt by the fact he had the wrong carbs on, he had the carbs used on the continent, with smaller jets and a snorkel needed etc. He had a spare bank of 627B carbs and I offered to completely strip and restore them for him, free. That's a LOT of labour. However I'm not in this game to make money, if I do it's a bonus but I don't let the pursuit of money rule my life, I saw a member struggling and offered to help, on the proviso that he didn't say anything on the forum, I didn't want everybody and his dog taking advantage of my good nature. So we met and the carbs were handed over, I had the lifter rod hard chromed as it was pretty rusty, the carbs were painted, the jets were all wrong, a real mixture of sizes, the needle clips were in different places, the mixture screws weren't set right, all in all the bank was a mess and someone had clearly been fiddling without knowing what they were doing. I heli-coiled all the stripped threads in the float bowls, sourced new genuine jets, cleaned everything up, polished the float bowls and carb tops to within an inch of their lives (and we all know what that means with me), had all the bracketry and everything unique zinc plated by another member on here as my kit is still in storage, in short when they were done they were as good as perfect, better than Gerbens if I'm honest.
I fitted all new Viton orings, which he provided, I compared them to a set I still have for mine off Gerben and noticed differences, not knowing which was correct I fitted them as the job needed to be completed.
I then travelled 125 miles to fit them and service his bike at the same time, this proved to be a very wise move as the bike was pretty bad TBH, it ran like a slug, wouldn't rev, wouldn't go, flat as hell, hard to start, hard to rev. Horrible. We did the tappets, checked the timing even though it was electronic, it was out, so that was fixed. Did the camchain tension. Then went to fit the carbs, I'd asked him to buy some new inlet orings as I wanted to be sure they were sealing, he had them in a small bag. However when we went to fit them we found they were such an appalling fit I didn't think they would seal, not wanting to chance that as it means removing the carbs again to change them I decided to use an old tappet cover oring instead, that's how badly they fitted, so we fitted the new orings in the tappet covers instead as they are easy to change afterwards.
Now clearly that shows that suppliers of these parts are not supplying the correct sizes, this concerned me as I know how critical the inlet manifold seal is to the good running of the engine, anyone finding the engine racing etc after fitting these would probably discount them as the cause as they were new.
So I decided I'd do something about that, enquired about having some made the correct size, not close, not within spec, the EXACT size as stipulated by Honda, that's 30.8 x 3.2mm not 30 x 3mm or 31 x 3mm or any other variation of those numbers, any member can search for those sizes and they'll find they aren't made, if you want that size it's a special order with a 500 minimum order. Now that gets expensive, especially when you factor in what the closest oring to it costs in comparison, double the price in fact. Same goes for quite a few other orings that Honda list, they used odd sizes and they just ain't available off the shelf, you can get close but not exact. So whilst I was talking with the UK largest manufacturer of orings I got some other quotes at the same time, I thought lets see if I can source all the hard to find ones. So all the carb Viton rings, got quotes for all of those, the oil pump, got quotes for those. Now I know what they cost and I checked to see what they were selling for on Ebay. And then I realise how much they are overcharging, over 500% on most of them, a ring that costs 13p is marked up to 90p in some cases and that's one of the cheaper ones and it's the wrong size which makes it really poor value.
So, a lot of effort, not really , few emails, a little searching and the desire to see people get value for money.
I did notice BTW that all your Ebay links are now significantly cheaper than they were yesterday, competition, it's a bitch isn't it. I can in fact go much lower with my prices, I don't mind not making any profit, I can also significantly expand my range, I have hundreds of orings lying around, I tend to buy them in 20s or 50s when I buy them so I've got loads spare. Dipstick, 550 clutch adjuster, petrol tap ones, starter motor ones, camshaft end cap ones. I may even start doing some carb overall kits in Viton, perfect sizes.
I should also point out an error in your post, Julie joined Aug 2014. That's not even 9 years ago never mind 10 and she didn't start selling anything until she joined up with you. Maybe 5-6 years I'll give you that.
Now please don't post on my threads, you're not welcome.
Post by: Nurse Julie on June 22, 2023, 04:35:50 PM
Post by: Oddjob on June 22, 2023, 05:10:13 PM
Odd as well that when I first muted the point of having the tappet cover orings specially made in Viton http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,25917.msg247649.html#msg247649 you stated that it was too hard and wouldn't crush down properly, this is your response. Viton is too hard and won't seal properly on tappet and inlet manifolds. Honda did them in Nitrile for a reason. On ebay I sell the tappet O rings for £5.99 for 8 with free post and inlet O rings for £3.99 for 4 Inc free post. I buy them in bags of 1000 at a time. Note the price as well. Also note that in 2021 I was wrong in saying they were 30.8 x 3.0mm, they are not. It was only measuring one out of a genuine Honda gasket kit that I noticed this error, when fitted side by side in the inlet manifold you can see the difference between the 2 sizes. (https://i.postimg.cc/PJRb6k6Q/IMG-3174.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4HphdjRY) Ones a genuine Honda one and one isn't. Close isn't it but what I failed to take a picture of is how much the genuine protrudes from the groove, without that extra 0.2mm you don't get a great seal IMO. As you said in your comment, Honda made them in Nitrile for a reason, they also made them that size for a reason.
I know because Graham has told me in the past that he sometimes uses your account to post comments, so I'd ask that you don't post on my threads either.
Post by: Nurse Julie on June 22, 2023, 05:31:58 PM
Anyways, my pricing and what I sell is no concern of anyone, except me. Forum members that purchase from me regularly know I always give a discount on my Ebay prices and do post at cost and it has always been that way. If they buy direct, I don't have to pay any ebay charges etc and I pass that saving on to the buyer as a discount. As I sell on many different bike / parts platforms, my ebay page is just my shop window to advertise some of my wares and anyone that knows me, even remotely, contacts me direct to buy out of ebay at a discounted price.
Post by: Oddjob on June 22, 2023, 06:42:01 PM
What I can claim is that mine are the exact size and I can provide invoices to prove that, I can also prove how much I've paid for each one, in that way everyone knows how much profit I'm making on these, fine to give 10% away when the mark up is 300-500 in most cases. Care to do the same?
Post by: Nurse Julie on June 22, 2023, 08:00:28 PM
Care to do the same?Nope, I can't think of one good business reason why I would do that Ken.
Post by: Trigger on June 22, 2023, 11:20:36 PM
I don't think any effort I make to get a better deal for the members is a LOT of effort, yes it's some effort and TBH I doubt I'd have bothered except for a recent experience when I went to fix another members bike, FOC I might add, he paid for petrol and parts, all my labour was free and it was considerable I may add.
His problem was his carbs, the bike was hard to start, ran poorly and was generally a bitch to get running. A lot caused no doubt by the fact he had the wrong carbs on, he had the carbs used on the continent, with smaller jets and a snorkel needed etc. He had a spare bank of 627B carbs and I offered to completely strip and restore them for him, free. That's a LOT of labour. However I'm not in this game to make money, if I do it's a bonus but I don't let the pursuit of money rule my life, I saw a member struggling and offered to help, on the proviso that he didn't say anything on the forum, I didn't want everybody and his dog taking advantage of my good nature. So we met and the carbs were handed over, I had the lifter rod hard chromed as it was pretty rusty, the carbs were painted, the jets were all wrong, a real mixture of sizes, the needle clips were in different places, the mixture screws weren't set right, all in all the bank was a mess and someone had clearly been fiddling without knowing what they were doing. I heli-coiled all the stripped threads in the float bowls, sourced new genuine jets, cleaned everything up, polished the float bowls and carb tops to within an inch of their lives (and we all know what that means with me), had all the bracketry and everything unique zinc plated by another member on here as my kit is still in storage, in short when they were done they were as good as perfect, better than Gerbens if I'm honest.
I fitted all new Viton orings, which he provided, I compared them to a set I still have for mine off Gerben and noticed differences, not knowing which was correct I fitted them as the job needed to be completed.
I then travelled 125 miles to fit them and service his bike at the same time, this proved to be a very wise move as the bike was pretty bad TBH, it ran like a slug, wouldn't rev, wouldn't go, flat as hell, hard to start, hard to rev. Horrible. We did the tappets, checked the timing even though it was electronic, it was out, so that was fixed. Did the camchain tension. Then went to fit the carbs, I'd asked him to buy some new inlet orings as I wanted to be sure they were sealing, he had them in a small bag. However when we went to fit them we found they were such an appalling fit I didn't think they would seal, not wanting to chance that as it means removing the carbs again to change them I decided to use an old tappet cover oring instead, that's how badly they fitted, so we fitted the new orings in the tappet covers instead as they are easy to change afterwards.
Now clearly that shows that suppliers of these parts are not supplying the correct sizes, this concerned me as I know how critical the inlet manifold seal is to the good running of the engine, anyone finding the engine racing etc after fitting these would probably discount them as the cause as they were new.
So I decided I'd do something about that, enquired about having some made the correct size, not close, not within spec, the EXACT size as stipulated by Honda, that's 30.8 x 3.2mm not 30 x 3mm or 31 x 3mm or any other variation of those numbers, any member can search for those sizes and they'll find they aren't made, if you want that size it's a special order with a 500 minimum order. Now that gets expensive, especially when you factor in what the closest oring to it costs in comparison, double the price in fact. Same goes for quite a few other orings that Honda list, they used odd sizes and they just ain't available off the shelf, you can get close but not exact. So whilst I was talking with the UK largest manufacturer of orings I got some other quotes at the same time, I thought lets see if I can source all the hard to find ones. So all the carb Viton rings, got quotes for all of those, the oil pump, got quotes for those. Now I know what they cost and I checked to see what they were selling for on Ebay. And then I realise how much they are overcharging, over 500% on most of them, a ring that costs 13p is marked up to 90p in some cases and that's one of the cheaper ones and it's the wrong size which makes it really poor value.
So, a lot of effort, not really , few emails, a little searching and the desire to see people get value for money.
I did notice BTW that all your Ebay links are now significantly cheaper than they were yesterday, competition, it's a bitch isn't it. I can in fact go much lower with my prices, I don't mind not making any profit, I can also significantly expand my range, I have hundreds of orings lying around, I tend to buy them in 20s or 50s when I buy them so I've got loads spare. Dipstick, 550 clutch adjuster, petrol tap ones, starter motor ones, camshaft end cap ones. I may even start doing some carb overall kits in Viton, perfect sizes.
I should also point out an error in your post, Julie joined Aug 2014. That's not even 9 years ago never mind 10 and she didn't start selling anything until she joined up with you. Maybe 5-6 years I'll give you that.
Now please don't post on my threads, you're not welcome.
You Can not ask other member not to post on your threads, this is a open members forum and i will post and comment were i want Ken.
Post by: taysidedragon on June 22, 2023, 11:39:04 PM
Post by: Oddjob on June 23, 2023, 12:25:29 AM
You Can not ask other member not to post on your threads, this is a open members forum and i will post and comment were i want Ken.
Actually I can ask, it would be polite of that person to comply with that request but I suppose I was asking too much.
Care to do the same?Nope, I can't think of one good business reason why I would do that Ken.
Thought not. Not into transparency?
I on the other hand have nothing to hide, I'll gladly divulge info, if they don't want to buy then it's up to them. Maybe we should let the members decide who to buy from?
Here we go again! Chill out people 🙂
I am mega chill, seriously. I can however only speak for myself.
Post by: Trigger on June 23, 2023, 05:58:25 AM
Maybe you could tell me what i had for my dinner last night :) :) :)
Post by: Oddjob on June 23, 2023, 03:44:08 PM
After doing some calculations I can adjust my proposed prices downwards once more. These are for the exact size required, not close, not yeah, I think that'll do the job, made in Nitrile specially for me or Viton when it's required. Which neither of these 2 sets are.
8 tappet cover orings £4 inc P&P. If you can get a lower price than that I can guarantee they are not the exact size that Honda said was required. If you want a close fit I can do those as well, a LOT cheaper. I'll do sets of 12 as well if you want to replace the inlet manifold ones at the same time for an extra £2.
Oil pump kit, all 5 rings, £7 inc P&P.
Crankcase plug Orings, all 4 £5 inc P&P.
I'll also be expanding my range, I'll be doing carb kits for the 500/550 in Viton, all exact sizes, all rings specially manufactured by the UKs leading oring supplier, not 100% sure on the price yet but significantly cheaper than any competition at present Ebay prices.
I may expand into the 400 and 750 markets if these sell well.
I also plan to see if I can sell every oring used on the 500/550, a one stop shop for orings, may even expand into oil seals as well. As soon as these are manufactured for me (and there is a lead time stated by the manufacturer) I'll let members know
Post by: AshimotoK0 on June 25, 2023, 12:52:26 PM
Well I just dug out a NOS bottom end set recently and checked all of the sizes and , to my knowledge, EVERY bottom end 'O' ring listed in the K0/K1 combined Parts Book is included apart from the internal one inside the the Mitsuba starter motor. Before anyone tells me I can't use ancient O rings, I had the hardness and surfaces (in case of ozone damage) on a couple of them checked by my mate at Hull Uni and they measured/inspected just fine so I am deffo going to use them this week on my own engine.
Only query is that there is one extra I can't identify unless I am missing something in the Parts Book. It's the one in the top right with ? ? near it . Measured around 25mm (ID) x 1.65 but very hard to measure exactly. Anyone got an idea where it fits in the bottom end please? Perhaps it's internal on the oil pump?
[attachimg=1]
Post by: Oddjob on June 25, 2023, 02:27:32 PM
As for the mystery ring, how about countershaft behind the bearing, listed as 24.5 and I remember it's very thin.
So lets see if I can place them all.
Start at the top.
The 4 x 19.8mm rings we've done.
14 x 2.5mm are for the oil pump
11.5 x 2mm took me a while to figure out but it's the shift drum stopper bolt that fits in the top crankcase.
13 x 2.5 is the plug in the left side of the main oil gallery, inside the generator cover.
25 x 1.65mm is I think the countershaft ring.
23 x 2mm is dipstick
15 x 2.5mm is oil filter bolt
89 x 4.5 is oil filter cover
47 x 3.2mm is the oil pump
24.4 x 3.1mm is the starter motor
I know the size of the internal starter motor one as well Ash, got a few in fact.
Post by: AshimotoK0 on June 25, 2023, 05:00:03 PM
Post by: Oddjob on June 25, 2023, 05:51:35 PM
Post by: AshimotoK0 on June 26, 2023, 07:11:18 AM
Post by: Oddjob on June 26, 2023, 03:26:28 PM
Just sorting some stuff out with the manufacturers and I'll get some orings ordered. Lead time is 5-6 weeks for some of the rings. You can get a Viton ring that's been peroxide cured, something for the food industry I believe, some rings are over £14 a ring when you need that curing. Thank god we don't need that method.
Post by: AshimotoK0 on June 26, 2023, 08:11:27 PM
Post by: AshimotoK0 on June 26, 2023, 08:39:45 PM
Post by: Oddjob on June 26, 2023, 10:11:16 PM
Post by: Trigger on June 27, 2023, 02:30:17 AM
LMFAO. For dinner, something bitter by the sound of it.
After doing some calculations I can adjust my proposed prices downwards once more. These are for the exact size required, not close, not yeah, I think that'll do the job, made in Nitrile specially for me or Viton when it's required. Which neither of these 2 sets are.
8 tappet cover orings £4 inc P&P. If you can get a lower price than that I can guarantee they are not the exact size that Honda said was required. If you want a close fit I can do those as well, a LOT cheaper. I'll do sets of 12 as well if you want to replace the inlet manifold ones at the same time for an extra £2.
Oil pump kit, all 5 rings, £7 inc P&P.
Crankcase plug Orings, all 4 £5 inc P&P.
I'll also be expanding my range, I'll be doing carb kits for the 500/550 in Viton, all exact sizes, all rings specially manufactured by the UKs leading oring supplier, not 100% sure on the price yet but significantly cheaper than any competition at present Ebay prices.
I may expand into the 400 and 750 markets if these sell well.
I also plan to see if I can sell every oring used on the 500/550, a one stop shop for orings, may even expand into oil seals as well. As soon as these are manufactured for me (and there is a lead time stated by the manufacturer) I'll let members know
Good luck with your sells.
Not a bad price as, you are not paying, income tax, business rates, national insurance, account fees, ebay fees, business lawyers, and all the other little expenses.
Are all the o'rings you are selling to the correct Honda sizes and Honda specifications ?
Post by: Oddjob on June 27, 2023, 03:04:40 PM
You don't pay National Insurance over 66 in the UK, so that's not an expense.
My home is my registered business address and I own that outright. Not selling on Ebay at present but I expect I'll increase the price on Ebay to cover them off. Account fees aren't a problem either, I have a good friend who's an auditor who does my accounts for me for free, a lot simpler since I retired. I still have a limited company from when I was self employed as an agency driver.
Correct sizes, yes. As far as you can go that is, some rings aren't listed or shown and some sizes aren't complete. I've found you cannot measure an old oring as it's so distorted by the pressure it bears little resemblance to a new ring of the correct size. I bought a NOS gasket kit for a 500 carb just to measure the rings when new, when I compared them to the actual sizes listed in the parts book I was gratified to see I was extremely close to the actual sizes listed, 0.01 in some cases. If you look at the pic of the inlet manifold, even the correct ring doesn't fill the whole of the groove, that's because it sits proud of the groove (if it's the right size that is) this then needs space for it to crush into. I suspect that when the size was being determined the volume of the groove was calculated and the ring was specced so it didn't exceed this volume. A 31 x 3mm ring is over 5% smaller in volume than the correct 30.8 x 3.2mm ring, that means it will stop sealing a lot quicker as the ring is slowly crushed over time to fill the space it sits in. Hence why whenever you remove a tappet cover that's been on a long time you need to use a stanley blade to get them out they are so tight in there, plus they are flat as hell, very little sealing quality left.
As for Honda specs, not really possible as stuff like carb orings need to be Viton these days and they weren't back in the 70s. Other than that, as close as I can get them.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on June 27, 2023, 07:50:30 PM
Post by: Oddjob on June 27, 2023, 07:56:59 PM
Post by: AshimotoK0 on June 27, 2023, 10:06:38 PM
Post by: Bryanj on June 28, 2023, 02:53:22 AM
Bottom set 06111-323-000
End numbers may have changed to 010 or 020 over the years.
Set numbers were in ocasional books but geriatric old fart honda mechanics like me and Ken got to know common numbers off by heart, copious aplication of guiness has lost a lot of mine but some stick!
Post by: AshimotoK0 on June 28, 2023, 08:12:50 AM
Top set 06110-323-000 substitute model code for 323
Bottom set 06111-323-000
End numbers may have changed to 010 or 020 over the years.
Set numbers were in ocasional books but geriatric old fart honda mechanics like me and Ken got to know common numbers off by heart, copious aplication of guiness has lost a lot of mine but some stick!
Interesting Bryan. I wonder if there is a copy anywhere I can scan ... even though I am an anorak and know the centre part numbers of most models in my head too.
Post by: Bryanj on June 28, 2023, 08:55:27 AM
Post by: Oddjob on June 28, 2023, 02:17:53 PM
Must see if I can find another, mine is full of little notes and even some prices from when I was restoring them both. I'll keep it just for sentimental reasons.
The full gasket sets can have weird end numbers, don't try searching for just 000 or 010 for instance, substitute 3 question marks instead and any results will then show. I can tell a shell colour by it's part number and even if it's crank or conrod. I know a lot fo model numbers but nowhere near all, just the ones that interest me as a rule.
Post by: Bryanj on June 28, 2023, 05:32:22 PM
Post by: Oddjob on June 28, 2023, 05:44:25 PM
Post by: AshimotoK0 on June 28, 2023, 10:10:21 PM
Post by: Oddjob on June 28, 2023, 10:31:06 PM
Bought it for a fiver at Palins of Derby.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on June 28, 2023, 10:42:25 PM
Mine was like that once :'( :'(
Bought it for a fiver at Palins of Derby.
Ruddy hell Ken Palins has been gone over 30 years plus - the old showroom has been used as a Thai Restaurant amongst several changes of use since then. Currently boarded up old brickwork now rendered.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/The+Spot/@52.9180496,-1.4746231,3a,75y,114.41h,94.14t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2eQqrNlPzPvePQ6Xr5fwPA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!4m15!1m8!3m7!1s0x4879f0fcc919f2d1:0x6af21ad831eb05bb!2sOsmaston+Rd,+Derby!3b1!8m2!3d52.9043032!4d-1.4616929!16s%2Fg%2F1tfbmvvh!3m5!1s0x4879f1ce0bd0cdf5:0x8030696c8580a8aa!8m2!3d52.918754!4d-1.4746043!16s%2Fg%2F11gk7qwz3g?entry=ttuently
.
Post by: Oddjob on June 28, 2023, 10:44:22 PM
Post by: JamesH on June 28, 2023, 11:14:50 PM
Bought it in 1977-8 IIRC.I was 1 or 2 years old when you bought that Ken
Post by: Trigger on June 28, 2023, 11:27:16 PM
Bought it in 1977-8 IIRC.I was 1 or 2 years old when you bought that Ken
you young puppy James, i was only 11 years old ;)
Post by: Oddjob on June 29, 2023, 01:16:20 AM
Bought it in 1977-8 IIRC.I was 1 or 2 years old when you bought that Ken
Jesus James, way to make me feel old. I was speaking to another member recently who reckoned that Roo was 76, that made me laugh, he's 80 if he's a day.
Post by: AshimotoK0 on June 29, 2023, 07:23:35 AM
Bought it in 1977-8 IIRC.I was 1 or 2 years old when you bought that Ken
You are old enough to be Ben Powell on here's dad then James ;D ;D ;D
Post by: Laverdaroo on June 29, 2023, 09:29:29 AM
Bought it in 1977-8 IIRC.I was 1 or 2 years old when you bought that Ken
Jesus James, way to make me feel old. I was speaking to another member recently who reckoned that Roo was 76, that made me laugh, he's 80 if he's a day.
And feel every minute of it ;D ;D
Yer swine ;D
Post by: Matt_Harrington on June 29, 2023, 09:35:37 AM
Bought it in 1977-8 IIRC.I was 1 or 2 years old when you bought that Ken
Jesus James, way to make me feel old. I was speaking to another member recently who reckoned that Roo was 76, that made me laugh, he's 80 if he's a day.
;D ;D
Post by: Laverdaroo on June 29, 2023, 09:38:46 AM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on June 29, 2023, 01:13:39 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on June 29, 2023, 01:52:36 PM
Bought it in 1977-8 IIRC.
I have an inkling that Palins were shut by the early 1980's - shame I can't find any old photos of that area, photos of old Derby seem to end at the Spot.
TBH the Town Centre at that period was based nearer The Cornmarket so Osmaston Road was almost "Out of Town".
When they built part of the inner ring road all the old houses on Bradshaw Street / Borne Street were demolished - now named Bradshaw Way
Post by: Laverdaroo on June 29, 2023, 01:54:26 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on June 29, 2023, 02:22:48 PM
Thanks Ted..................I think ;D ;D ;D 8)
I'm guessing you will have lost a decade since you had your teeth sorted - pain puts years on us all. 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Post by: Oddjob on June 29, 2023, 02:35:25 PM
You've met Roo Ted, is he a spritely 80 year old or a really knackered 70 year old would you say.
Post by: AshimotoK0 on June 29, 2023, 02:36:30 PM
Mine was like that once :'( :'(
Bought it for a fiver at Palins of Derby.
[attachimg=1]
Post by: Oddjob on June 29, 2023, 02:57:40 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on June 29, 2023, 03:12:33 PM
Oddly enough most of my Honda Spares I bought from Samways when they were on the corner of Mill Street/Nuns Street - now a Sainsburys Local Store.
Samways were on my first Derby foot beat so on nights I would dream of one day owning a CX500 as I gazed at the new & used bikes circa 1979.
.https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.9258175,-1.4897484,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sUSyRnxApkW0FOqRG9ynG5A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
Post by: Laverdaroo on June 29, 2023, 04:38:58 PM
Roo can remember the 1880s but not the 1980s Ted.
You've met Roo Ted, is he a spritely 80 year old or a really knackered 70 year old would you say.
A shagged out 50 year old! ;D
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on June 29, 2023, 05:15:51 PM
You've met Roo Ted, is he a spritely 80 year old or a really knackered 70 year old would you say.
I think as one ages you can identify with folk your own age but youngsters all look the same- tbh I thought Roo was in his late thirties or early forties. :-* :-* :-*
I have been paid handsomely to make this unbiased statement from his features on the 10th September 2022 when he delivered my current money pit. ;D ;D ;D
Post by: AshimotoK0 on July 03, 2023, 11:44:57 AM
Post by: Oddjob on July 03, 2023, 11:57:38 AM
Small one doesn't belong. Looks like a carb ring.
Tappet covers are 30.8 x 3.2mm.
the 2 oil control valves are the bottom of the barrel for the other 2 x 11 x 2.5mm rings.
Looks complete Ash. Missing the valve stem seals you get in a genuine kit though unless you didn't show them as they aren't orings.
Post by: Bryanj on July 03, 2023, 01:18:07 PM
Post by: Oddjob on July 03, 2023, 01:24:04 PM
Post by: AshimotoK0 on July 03, 2023, 06:48:53 PM
Post by: Bryanj on July 04, 2023, 08:01:25 AM
Stumped about the O ring then, cant think of any other small ones
Post by: AshimotoK0 on July 04, 2023, 08:44:55 AM
Still got some of those for mine, didnt realise there were no stem seals, sorry Ash.
Stumped about the O ring then, cant think of any other small ones
No problem mate ... that set was a bargain quality one .. stem seals or not.
I wonder what the green ones are made from ... probably something with superior properties to standard nitrile rubber. Possibly some kind of fluoro-elastomer.
Post by: Nurse Julie on July 04, 2023, 08:47:40 AM
Post by: Oddjob on July 04, 2023, 03:13:05 PM
Post by: Oddjob on July 15, 2023, 11:46:55 AM
Very odd.
Post by: Oddjob on July 28, 2023, 06:53:00 PM
You got me thinking Ken. Where are the part numbers for the complete gasket sets listed? You don't see them in parts books AFAIK. Dont forget also that you can earn £1k in eBay sales before it's deemed as taxable. At least I believe that is the case. Mick Taylor ( kettle738) told me about it.
Spotted this today Ash. You might find it interesting, it's on the back of the card of the 5 bottom end gaskets set I bought.
(https://i.postimg.cc/1ztpqxRF/s-l1600.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/FYMfMBLF)
Post by: AshimotoK0 on July 28, 2023, 07:08:35 PM
Checked CB72 USA Parts Book and that listed that one inc all of its contents. Thanks for posting .. will put in Dropbox links