Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => Project Board => Topic started by: ComfySofa on April 26, 2022, 04:22:49 PM
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As above - i joined the us forum thinking that was "the" place but, being in the UK ive found/stumbled across this one since resurrecting the build. As i said in my intro i started this a few years back and it stalled due to a massive garden renovation which im still working on but getting to the end of....
A little bit of history....my dads bike. When he passed away we thought he sold it but, it was at the back of the garage in good condition with some blankets over (but not used for 20 years or so). As my 2 brothers part owned it they wanted to sell it. It has 2 previous owners, both in the family and 6k ish on the clock. About 7 years ago i rode it once to the MOT which it passed but then made the decision to buy my 2 brothers out (best thing i ever did) . As i had no room in my garage to store it (a small garage with an RSV4, Hypermotard 1100 evo sp and a z1000) in there my mate offered to store it in a shipping container at his workplace....it sat there for 5 years and the damp ate it alive...hence my decision to strip it down and rebuild from the ground up. My plan is to do a resto mod....and update all the wiring, remove the old points, add in a Motogadget MUnit and change all the bulbs to LED.
I did make a start by getting a load of powder coating done, some rechroming and rebuild the wheels with alloy rims and stainless spokes. Heres some random pics and not in order....
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Having problems uploading...ill have to resize them locally and upload later on....[attachimg=1]
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Ah - this one was just under 3meg (Someone on the Ducati forum im on had a set of spare Honda performance swing arm bushings for free which were duly fitted!
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The bronze bushes are a good start. However most of the wear is the internal collar than runs inside those bushes, check that for wear because if it's worn new bushes won't do much good. Maybe post a pic of the ends of the collar/spacer if your unsure on what is excessive wear.
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Well, its all back together now...the original bushes were hardly used...it was free (so i fitted them! ) ill put more pics up later on when i get home...at the office and supposed to be working but this is far more interesting!
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Some Random pics.[attachimg=1]
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That was it as i was stripping it down...notice the engine finish pretty well knackered...
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Other questions that ive got....
I want to fit a MotoGadget MUnit...anyone else fitted one to these?...(ive already got the electronic ignition conversion) along with LED replacements where possible.....the idea is to modernize it but without affecting the look of it.
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That's some serious oxidation on those cases. There will be quite a bit of pitting in the alloy. Have you got a pic of the cases now?
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No but i will get some....need to unpack all the boxes!! but they did come up really well.!
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Other questions that ive got....
I want to fit a MotoGadget MUnit...anyone else fitted one to these?...(ive already got the electronic ignition conversion) along with LED replacements where possible.....the idea is to modernize it but without affecting the look of it.
Can't immediately find it, but a previous project on here used motogadget setup and will show that experience on a 550 I seem to recall.
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Cool - ive got a few pdf/wiring diagrams but thats way in the distance!!!
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I doid the 400 0n a mptogadget aset up and going to do the same with the 550, its a great thing.
The thread you refer to is eight0 and his thread calld, "What have i let myself in for"
I have a brand new MUnit blu in the box for sale if you havent already got one as its surplus to requirements. there's s few things Ill do differntly tis time but on the whople it was a fairly easy installation but really satisfying.
Double Fonzy thumbs up from me.
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Hi - yes i will definately need one!! an Munit is an absolute definite.
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well there's one here if you want it. I got a deal on three so I can shuffle it on fairly cheaply.ones on the 400, one's going on the 550 so theres a spare.
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Having seen the state of the engine now I understand why you stripped it! 😳
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https://rupesrewires.com/marks-honda-cb550/
https://rupesrewires.com/gavins-cb550-cafe-racer/
If these links work, there are a couple of 550 looms with m- units which might be of interest.
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Go to REVIVAL CYCLES and have a look at the youtube site for fitting videos, dead easy and really straight forward.
I'm going to put this M unit Blu I Have on Flea Bay as I need to get some forks bought to replace mine and its both legs so if you're interested I need £265 inc postage. If I dont hear anything I'll get it on there. Anybody else interested,l et me know.
Cheers :)
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Back again. So, first and foremost so many thanks to Bryan who has rebuilt the engine, which is now back in the bike....im on the garage laptop at the moment so ill upload pics from the phone in a bit. Essentially its probably about 3 years since i pulled it apart so no real idea of how it all goes back together....if anyone can advise from the pics which is the next best part to refit any and all suggestions ill be more than open to.....Bryan still as the carbs but hopefully they should be done in the next month or so...!
As i say and stress if any of the veterans on here can give me some pointers on the next best parts to fit im all ears! and eyes.
And once again Bryan - take a bow - if i didnt find you i dont think it would have ever gotten built again!!!
Cheers
Andy
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Heres where I'm at..!
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220831/a67c3cedfe7f4d2fa43b1d26d6b3377c.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220831/1c368ba2bea8515a0d0053141d23d2b7.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220831/ecb8629ca777b3e7ecc4f8c6bd7608ed.jpg)
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You might as well get on and get all the brakes and levers on it, lights (shell) get everything on it that needs to then its all ready for teh wiring attack. Thats what i'd do.(did)
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Ok....not sure what goes on with the airbox....looks - quite involved.!
Oh - do you still have the MUnit?
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I'd wait to get your carbs on before playing with the airbox but happy to be told otherwise. Youve heaps to get on it before the airbox but those that know a bit more may say different.
Sorry, I sold it just last week, a good job as I found the receipt and saw that what i was asking was quite a bit less than I paid for it. I just broke even in the end. Louis Moto have them in stock as do a few others, you should be able to find one pretty easily but shop around as they vary in price quite a bit. If you can get it down to near 300 quid you're doing well. Apologies for that, had to shift it on to pay for more spares........you know how that goes! ::) :-[
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Absolutely fine sir, no matter!....airbox coming off tomorrow...! this is what i need....to save re-assembling multiple times for no reason!!
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Julie's the girl to speak to but look at it logically and think what needs to go where or what can i put on thats not going to hinder doing major bits going on later. You'll end up doing things twice, thats half the fun. It all has to go on before the wiring but take youre time, clean where required and enjoy it, it's supposed to be a hobby ;D
If you are going down the M unit route, order the delux wiring kit from Revival cycles in the states. Their pack is far superior than others sold on ebay, internet etc. Every wire has it stamped on it at various intervals what its for which will help you immensely when doing the install from scratch, especially if youve not done it before. The only thing not on the wiring diagram I got from them was no provision for oil pressure switch and no neutral but once i'd got that far I'd sussed it nd some help of one of the users was invaluable. Just going back to revival cycles, their fitting videos are brilliant, as is their kit. Also watch Classic Octane on You tube, he does a great video on how to hook the m unit up onto a 550 including keeping the switches as is and using them into the mix. Really useful.
The wiring kit is a must though it's absolutely spot on.
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Ok - thanks for that....i have used an munit before on a supermoto - my only beef was the wiring was incredibly thin and looked like it wouldnt last "British use" but on this occasion its going to be used sunny weather only - having said that it was a mate that wired it up - i kinda just watched!!!
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As previously stated then ;D
I really enjoyed it and looking forward to fettling the 550 :)
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Bit more work done today....(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220904/e047c266d226bf46168cc0f13f57cd74.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220904/1a934d44bb0287a1a2cddc3a73eb80d7.jpg)
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Nifty brake switch solution.
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No idea what youre on about ! (serioiusly)!
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Ain’t that a pressure switch on the caliper….never seen that before. It’s normally located at the headstock union.
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Ah - yes - sorry....yeah - it doesnt fit on the front brake...not enough room....thought id locate it down the other end! Not ideal as the cable will be running back up the brake line....but ill see what happens...this wont be a one time build...its going to go through a bit of fettling and constant adjustment...!
Im planning to go the motogadget route....does anyone know where i can get the bullet connectors so i can crimp wires to go on all the exisiting switchgear etc etc...?
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Another alternative would be to use a master cylinder off another Honda, like the later GL1000 which has the brake switch on the master cylinder.
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You won't go far wrong using these guys for connectors etc
https://kojaycat.co.uk/epages/950000457.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/950000457/Categories (https://kojaycat.co.uk/epages/950000457.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/950000457/Categories)
I tend to crimp and solder....
Matt
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Thanks. Ive been here/there before for connectors for my Hypermotard. I have noticed that theres subtle differences between the diameter's of various bullet connectors....it'd be nice to match them up as i really dont want to cut any bullet connectors off of whats actually on the bike at the moment...
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Another alternative would be to use a master cylinder off another Honda, like the later GL1000 which has the brake switch on the master cylinder.
Cheers - as ive got literally no budget set aside for this im trying to use what i can/keep it oem looking....does the GL1000 master look like the 400/4 one?
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Early GL yes, later onr has clear reservoir
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Early GL yes, later onr has clear reservoir
Clear is ok - trying to keep the aesthetic...right as it were...! cheers.
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Then any GL 1000, i think they all had mechanical brakelight switch on master which means you can remove switch from joint bit and attach 2nd caliper line there with standard banjo bolt
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Hi Bryan - officially....thanks for the engine rebuild sir....brilliant. Its starting to take shape slowly..!
Seen a few on ebay = none that i can see with the switch...or is it built in (not the end of the world) as the current setup is ok for the moment...
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Mine un looks like this….
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Seems they changed to the integrated brake light switch around 1978. It's under the reservoir.
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Ah - right - so, i probably cant see it in the pics but a couple of spade connectors then?
Another question....is there anyone on here thats done a Motogadget conversion on here and if so - do they have any pics of the installation?
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I found this article interesting as it seems to suggest that it's more complicated so not for everyone.
https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/news-and-views/advice/bike-maintenance/guide-to-motorcycle-electrics/motorcycle-electrics-explained-motogadget-m-unit
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Sesman (Phil) seems to have used a pre 1978 MC which doesn't have the switch, I presume he's still using the brake switch on the joint on the bottom yoke?
The later version which has the switch has a clear/opaque reservoir and isn't that easy to find, I looked yesterday on Ebay. It was fitted to the GL1000K3 and is part number 45500-431-611. https://www.cmsnl.com/honda-gl1000k3_model50510/cyln-frmaster_45500431611/
Also seems to have been fitted to the CX500, that's a common bike and may make it easier to find.
Just found a couple on Ebay, seems it hasn't got the clear reservoir, looks like your current one except it does have the switch you need. Example ONLY.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334439026578?hash=item4dde1e8f92:g:QnIAAOSw~9tifUec&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAsD3bl8kLqkCUqn1hnNIVSGmeYsUpSUa3D7P41c4%2BvVlu%2BKGqBvXN9izMQ0LYbxfE7g7m2v2f%2BUzUttQevWk%2Bkbf60C9z2mrhLW36JB%2BnfDcMfPLAsTyiG6HqAYaer5qm95j0%2BlkeHEUvHiTdzi87VzXeyUczAskURTs%2F3pNREelPU5hSW9GoeDxq79gzgqoZD7crKsAUO4RiuCP624IyhtCocNOqeh3pgu7qcdNcdCrT%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR-KxtariYA
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/325194420811?hash=item4bb719124b:g:IiYAAOSwt2dihQbi&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAsHUuGgAx0jV8z6IR8yj7zgA0aGfjOJyAZFUuBPouUNXHo8cemYMz798lawO%2Fqz%2FYgfgAcNe5ny0PB6z3T5fLQi7KVDPQ4IChf%2Bxcsp5xSvQcUwhjIc%2BgrFPjyPbCFmqxuHHO3o6npPDyyoKs%2F4EyxYR2Ajv1ZdOHuFg3ix6AYaTYcY%2FQUYBiBPVgF7zXm33HEbwKo3xwVJ7Ikmjvfhmh4ySptb6q8%2BAkTDaXdgNeBFJD%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR-CxtariYA
A 1978 GL1000 MC, with clear res,
https://www.ebay.com/itm/373625828559
Roo is going to the states later this week, maybe he can have a look in the scrapyard for you. All you need is a round top MC with a brake switch.
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Yes, I’m using the pressure switch at the down pipe union. Pardon my ignorance, but what’s the bolt for under the lever pivot?
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The earlier type had a small plate fitted there which covered a small rubber tube which went up inside the pivot point, I seem to recall it was for helping the lever return to the out position. Not sure why they've fitted a bolt there and added a tab washer, try removing and see what's under it?
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Will co.
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Yes, I’m using the pressure switch at the down pipe union. Pardon my ignorance, but what’s the bolt for under the lever pivot?
It's an anti rattle aid, a bit of rubber tube that stops the lever rattling.
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Yeah that makes better sense Julie.
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Check out Classic Octane for a vid on the M unit on You tube. Also have a look at Revival Cycles , they have several vids on the subject of fitting them with Honda's and keeping the switches on the bars etc....
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I will do - im a little bit ahead of myself at the moment re the wiring but my mate who helped with the supermoto wire-up is more than happy to help with this one....so it should be relatively straightforward....coming back down to ground ill soon be at the point where i can wire in the coils...the original ht leads and caps are on there 40 odd years old....im assuming the HT leads are just a "push and twist" fitment (id like to give it some fresh red leads and new caps....
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Leads are soldered inside coils, look up ash's fix in his dropbox
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Ugh - that sounds bad....not sure what you mean...is there a link somewhere?
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Having said that are there somesort aftermarket coils available....a long time ago when i was running a 7/11GSXR Dyna coils were the ones to have.....couple of spade connectors and push twist fitting for the HT's....does that kind of thing still exist?
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Having said that are there somesort aftermarket coils available....a long time ago when i was running a 7/11GSXR Dyna coils were the ones to have.....couple of spade connectors and push twist fitting for the HT's....does that kind of thing still exist?
I used Dyna coils on my 400 with their electronic ignition.
TBH I was not aware of Ash's fix at that time.
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ok - before i go down that route does anyone have a link...?
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ok - before i go down that route does anyone have a link...?
If you click onto Aladins Cave at the top then select CB400 its listed there.
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There was a refinement done to the Ash coil fix, I can't remember who did it now but instead of removing a hell of a lot of the coil body you just did a small hole.
Wish I could find it now. Tried searching but the search function on this site sucks.
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wow - dyna still exist - would these do the job??
https://shop.dynatekuk.com/dc2-1-458-p.asp
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Morning Peeps. Got an afternoon in the garage....ive got everything to reconnect the rear brake....not sure how it all goes together....ive read something somewhere that says to fit the rear brake ive gotta take the rear swing arm out??
cheers to anyone that replies.!
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IIRC you need to fit the pivot/lever/shaft part before you fit the swing arm in place - I also attached the long rod and of course the inside spring.
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Ok - is this right (2 mins while i take a pic)!!
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Here you go....(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220911/b81b383176a37f839698bf12a2777d1f.jpg)
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Just being nit picky, but shouldn’t that pin be through the other way with the split pin on the inside of the arm. I seem to recall that the pin has a flat that nestles in a recess in the arm?
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I put some clear plasic pipe over the spring to stop it wearing into the paintwork - position looks good - my pin is on the outside like yours as that's how mine was.
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Just being nit picky, but shouldn’t that pin be through the other way with the split pin on the inside of the arm. I seem to recall that the pin has a flat that nestles in a recess in the arm?
Yep - youre absolutely right....ill change it in a min...( just having a bite to eat!) - this is why i post so people can pick me up on my mistakes!! cheers sir...thanks.
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I put some clear plasic pipe over the spring to stop it wearing into the paintwork - position looks good - my pin is on the outside like yours as that's how mine was.
Cool...clear plastic pipe....check (got some of that...)!
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If not a peice of black shrink tube over it to stop it wearing into the frame works just as well and cant be seen at all. ;) :)
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Carb overflow tube on the spring is best. It's black so it blends in. A small piece of black pipe like plumbing pipe over the frame where the spring sits also helps stop the spring wearing away the paint on the frame. It's finding the correct size which can be difficult. Maybe overflow pipe with a split in it would be fine if it's too small.
Doesn't look right to me, the pivot arm is not positioned right, it should be a lot more upright, you may find the threaded part at the rear is way too far through the brake lever arm. You may also find having it that low means the spring is hardly tensioned so it doesn't return the setup as strongly as it should.
Check the brake lever for punch marks, the mark lines up with a similar one on the pivot arm.
Ted is correct is saying the split pin should be visible but the brake rod is fitted upside down, the part with the ridge for the pin to locate into goes on the inside as Phil says.
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Doesn't look right to me, the pivot arm is not positioned right, it should be a lot more upright, you may find the threaded part at the rear is way too far through the brake lever arm. You may also find having it that low means the spring is hardly tensioned so it doesn't return the setup as strongly as it should.
I suspect it looks like that as the rod is not yet attached at the other end to the brake hub or the drum link/stop arm is not yet connected?
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It should look right without the rod being connected Ted. The adjusting bolt on the brake lever should stop it going to high.
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I put the pedal on last.
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Well...i think im done....got the bar swapped round...brake appears to be ok....not a great deal of travel on the switch though....thanks for all the input today.. cheers sir's - tar.
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More advice please: !!
Can anyone recommend a lithium battery please....? Im going the motogadget route and wanted to partner up with a lithium jobbie!
Cheers
PS ( I need to upload some more photos as its come on a little bit since i last posted!)
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No direct recommendation or good experience (yet, as mostly cheap type encountered) of li battery, but this may help you pinpoint something worthwhile https://www.motorcycle.com/products/lithium-motorcycle-batteries-myths-vs-realities as seems a decent overview.
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Thanks. Im more than knowledgeable on that front (ive got lithiums in my Hypermotard, RSV4 factory and Z1000) and theyve all been fine....it really more a case of "these are the best ones for the 400/4" for example...people do use the anti-gravity batteries but theyre pretty expensive...ive been using JMT batteries which are really good and reasonably priced....
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Not sure of the benefits of Lithium but an AGM type battery takes some beating for low use vehicles.
Charging on Lithium might be a consideration in terms of alternator voltage.
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ok - i must say the argument has been raging on the ducati forum.....ive had one in the hyper for about 4 years now with no issues....i leave it on the tender when its not being used for a while as theres a tracker in there that does drain the battery....
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What benefits do you get from the Lithium batteries (excluding the weight advantage)?
Matt
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What benefits do you get from the Lithium batteries (excluding the weight advantage)?
Matt
Bit lighter on the back pocket. 🤣🤣
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What benefits do you get from the Lithium batteries (excluding the weight advantage)?
Matt
Size - anti gravity batteries are about 2/3rds the size....give me room for wiring and placement of other components...
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Comfy - I was using this in my recently sold 400F. Ignore the $ price, I’m googling from Oz, but did buy my Shorais in the Uk < I retired.
https://shoraipower.com/lfx14a5-bs12-backorder--p74
It was not particularly undersized - so not sure if it’ll fit your bill.
To the nay sayers I’ve now had 3 LiFe in 1970s Hondas - and had no issues…. have just installed #3 in the ‘750 restoration.
The advantages are obviously weight, but more than that longevity. The LiFe’s I bought in 2015 are still going strong - one has the arduous job of cranking a Moto Guzzi 1280cc Griso. The other + is that they tend not to discharge if idle, meaning your old Honda should crank fine if left 12 months. (obviously if you’ve alarms / clocks etc fitted there would be an issue)
So cost… perhaps 1.5x. But outweighed by longevity and minimal pita once fitted - for me. (They are less tolerant of mis-set VRs, and really should only be subjected to a 14-15v charging range - so the electric system has to be in good fettle)
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I've use a Shorai Lithium Iron Motorcycle Battery on my CR750 replica (as just no space for normal battery for 3 years - only a few hundred miles). Initially I only had a kickstart but as I recently modified the bike to accomadate a race alternator and starter motor, I installed this high cranking amp Shorai LFX14L2-BS12 Lithium Iron Motorcycle Battery.
Expensive but the smallest, best quality for set output - but expensive. Here is the high cranking amp one I bought on eBay (very small and light)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/293529841815
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Hi there - thanks for that (added to my watch list on ebay) a fair bit more than the JMT batteries that i currently use. Ive got JMT's in my Hypermotard, Z1000 and RSV4 and theyve all been fine...if ive got no option ill use the shorai you suggested - many thanks.
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Not been here for a little while. While building has stopped - not for anything bad...just not had the chance to get in the garage coupled with waiting for spares, coating etc etc...
Ill be in the garage on Sunday. Got the exhaust system to fit. Ive continued to get parts in. The Motogadget Munit has arrived along with a load of various coloured wires for building the loom.
That being said i have an electrical related question....as you can see from the previous pics the engine is in....but to that end when i start the wiring i need a good ground - so one thing i "think" ive got to do is to unbolt the engine and sand off where the engine touches the frame so the ground runs through the engine and frame....can anyone advise.?
And, once again, thanks to Brian again for the engine and carb work - without you i would not be where i currently am.
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A few pics of stuff....everyone likes pics!(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221104/e315a98437aedf6513642efea4a839f5.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221104/8c42815fa1c5c8e8b1b4230163d691ba.jpg)
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Oh. Had some rear spacers machined from stainless to replace the mild steel jobbies...(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221104/82262b3a0f6c6d6ecf2573185ea80ba9.jpg)
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Another question is the rear shocks. Ive got the original ones which are pitted rusted and generally tatty. I was thinking of going for a set of aftermarket shocks (Niton, ohlins, yss) or something like that - not for any performance reasons but more for the aesthetic....the rear shocks are the main part youre eye is drawn to (in my opinion) - has anyone got any suggestions??
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A few people have recommended TEC shocks for a good performance at a reasonable price.
The standard spacers on a 400f are 2 different sizes. Yours both look like the long one, the other onecshould be shorter.
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Just the angle....i sent the originals away for him to copy just in case!
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As far as I know TEC shocks are not currently available from TEC themselves and they dont know when the will be getting replacement stock. However there is a guy who attends the Kempton Park Autojumbles (and a few others) who still had some TEC shocks for various bikes for sale on his stall. He is the southern area rep for TEC.
His contact details are David Hunt, 01932 786030 (evenings and weekends or leave a message).
Last time I was at Kempton Park I noticed he had a single set for the 400 and another set for the 500 (with the half chrome shrouds). If you need a set get in quick!
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Never heard of TEC....ill go-a-googling....
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https://www.tecbikeparts.com/product/cb400f-1974-79-tec-chrome-shock-absorbers/
Looks like they are out of stock at the moment.
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Theyvestoppedmaking TEC shocksfor the CB's
I couldnt get any at all last year for either of ours here. They say they wont be making anymore.
IAlan Kelly on here bought a really nice set of piggy back res,YSS unitslast year, they look great!
I have a set of chrome ones with a black spring if you get desperate, up for grabs.
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Thanks....thats pretty well what ive already got...i could just clean up what i have...i was thinking more like this....
https://www.nitron.co.uk/buy-online/motorcycles/honda/cb750-rc42/honda-cb-750-rc42-ntr-r3-twin-shocks
Or going back to the Tec site this...
https://www.tecbikeparts.com/product/tec-adjustable-length-gas-shock-absorbers-honda-cb500-cb550-four-sohc/
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Yeah, they have NO stock of the TEC items at all now. The Nitron ones would be the absolute swingers but dear at a grand plus.
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Thats what my paypal 0% interest free account is for!!! just bought some GP4RX's for my z1000 so im currently clearing that down....ive got a Nitron R3 on my z1000 which after 5 years is still in perfect nick. Im an advocate of "you get what you pay for" plus...its my dads bike...i feel its the least i can do...refresh it and give it some subtle upgrades...
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If I had the dosh, Iwould do exctly the same, I hd a Nitron on my 853, it was an incredible bit of kit,just wish I could afford one for the VFR!
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Yep - i bought the Nitron R3 rear for the Zed Some time ago (that was my first foreray into "posh suspension") - Then i upgraded the RSV4 from standard oem ohlins to a TTXmk2 and NiX30 cartridges on the front....that was a generational change...the harder you push it the more compliant it becomes....very nice...my 50th present to myself was a 3way bitubo for the rear of the Hyper - just waiting to get some cash to get some adriani cartridges for the front...
Funnily enough i dont drink, never smoked and pretty well spend #@%$ all on anything apart from bikes! :)
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The fact you have a bike is justification itself ;D 8)
Bikes are only for cool people remember! ;D ;D
I was looking intoa front end upgrade on the VFR and was looking at Ktech,.....................I'm saving up ::)
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Never had any ktech stuff - ive almost gone that way a couple of times...the rsv4 has been the most impressive change in handling but having said that the z hasnt been setup properly yet...
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The VTEC is a bit of an issue as nobody makes any aftermarket shocks for it except if you want manual adjustment through a c spanner. I tour a bit and like the preload adjuster on th erear so I can alter to suit really easily.
To that end, I managed to find a really nice second hand unit from a guy in the states that had come of a crashed 2006 VTEC. As it was in the states, I had it sent to a chap who will match the spring to your girth, rebuild it with seals and new internals meaning i can keep the manual adjuster. With everything all in, I paid $250 for the rebuild, $124 for the shock and it was just postage on top. The fact that I can now adjust not only the preload but the rebound also means the bike should be transformed once fitted later in the year. I've done all the brakes with steel lines, new clutch, pads, service, the lot. Just waitong to get the fork internals and its back end swap, possibly January. Need to get the 550 rolling first.
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Yeah - youre like me....i like the 3 way adjusters and the hydraulic preload....way easier to make adjustments while youre out and about....handy when im at the TT!
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Havent been since 99................getting withdrawel symptoms.
Best two weeks Ive ever had! What a place :) 8)
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I'm not a fan of inline 4's but have fallen for anything CB, I like weird engines that feel like you're riding them. Thevibes,thelumpunessandthe exoticbuildsof these engines. V4's V twin's, Tripples, parrallel twins, anything like that. I think they have a great personality.
I never liked the RSV's when they came out as Aprillia were a bit plastic compaired to the build quality of the Honda's at the time but I always fancied one of the later ones as the sound track was/is brilliantanf they're a fair weapon.
Still might but gotta clear the decks first, one money pit at a time
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We go every year....the company i used to work for has an office over there...ive stayed friends with my counterpart....so when it comes around we stay at his place, he goes to his girlfriends house and leaves the key under the plantpot.! Were on the south of the island at Port St Mary where its queieter but theres some lovely roads...
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If I had the dosh, Iwould do exctly the same, I hd a Nitron on my 853, it was an incredible bit of kit,just wish I could afford one for the VFR!
I put a Nitron on my VFR800 back in the day.
God that swingarm was heavy!
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If I had the dosh, Iwould do exctly the same, I hd a Nitron on my 853, it was an incredible bit of kit,just wish I could afford one for the VFR!
I put a Nitron on my VFR800 back in the day.
God that swingarm was heavy!
Ive a complete new rear end to go on it which is part built up andj ust some seals and the shock o mount on it once in. Ive been slowly collecting nice, clean parts including the hub, bearings and seals, for ages. Steady away.
I dont want it laid up for long as its my 'go to' bike so the plan is to whip one out, monster clean up of the rear end, new pipes as mine are finaly starting to go and insert a complete refreshed, swing arm. It means I can do all the prep first and swap unit for unit without it being on the bench for ages getting in the way.
Also my shed has a wood floor meaning that with Rose, (VFR) on it, its a bit unstable because she's a bit of a fatty so this will get done on the floor meaning its a bit tight and I hate grovelling about so the faster the better for me!
.
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OOh - just remembered (another question) is there a way of bonding an earth cable between the engine and frame...or is there another way of doing it...? (i was going to lift the engine and sand some of the powder coating away so where the engine connects to the frame (so its earthed where the bolts go through)
Cheers
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OOh - just remembered (another question) is there a way of bonding an earth cable between the engine and frame...or is there another way of doing it...? (i was going to lift the engine and sand some of the powder coating away so where the engine connects to the frame (so its earthed where the bolts go through)
Cheers
There are quite a few earthing points on the frame / bike but you just need to remove the powder coat so the bolt and washer hits 100% metal and not powder.
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Right...so sanding a bit away on each of the engine mounts is the best way....less wires is a good thing!
Thanks very much.
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Nope, just the important ones. Somebody else will advise which ones
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Ah - ok - ill wait for that bit of info...cheers..
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Good candidate’s are ithe rear. right upper engine mount and the upper left HT coil mount.
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Upper engine mount - is that the triangle connector mounts?
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Yes, negative battery lead connection point.
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I put in a couple of extra hidden extra earthing points - don't ask me where as I have forgotten but it seemed a good idea at the time.
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Yes, negative battery lead connection point.
Just to quote (so run a lead the length of the bike from the battery to the front triangle engine mounts)?
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No it's the rear upper engine mount, it has a small triangular plate, a bent shaped one, the fronts are straight.. The battery earth lead goes on the end of the bolt coming through the engine before the spring washer and nut. I'd remove the paint from the frame where the other 2 bolts holding then plate on connect to the plate and from the small area on the plate that the earth lead covers so it has bare metal underneath.
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Brilliant - glad i asked now (pics will be coming tomorrow when i get in the garage)! Many thanks.
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My cable was already bent into the shape shown but this is where it goes I believe - I made sure the inside surface against the engine made contact on both sides of the fram if you get my drift.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52478749824_ea32865236_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nXniZs)PXL_20221105_110348178 (https://flic.kr/p/2nXniZs) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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Wow.....ive not even got that bit on there yet!!! ( i was looking at that triangular bit last week) thinking where the #@%$ does that bit go!! Cheers....and i will add that ive got a few more bits like that as well (ill take some pics of them tomorrow)
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Supposed to point upward Ted and the cable should be straight not all curled up like that. I'm currently making some new ones for my bikes, red for the positive lead to the starter solenoid and black for the earth lead and the starter motor cable.
You can always trap the earth point between the engine bracket and the engine, so behind the bracket not in front, that way it makes a really good contact with the engine casing.
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Great - thanks very much (all good stuff) i will say, that you lot have been a great help....one of the things i was most apprehensive about was the re-assembly after its been apart for so long....
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Welcome, I doubt you have any questions that haven't been asked and answered before. Vast wealth of knowledge on the site.
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There'll be a shit load of MUnit based electrical ones coming!! :)
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Supposed to point upward Ted and the cable should be straight not all curled up like that. I'm currently making some new ones for my bikes, red for the positive lead to the starter solenoid and black for the earth lead and the starter motor cable.
You can always trap the earth point between the engine bracket and the engine, so behind the bracket not in front, that way it makes a really good contact with the engine casing.
I know Ken but I did not want to risk messing up the cable end by straightening it - when I bought the bike it was attached to the rectifier mounting bolt!
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Ive got everything that came off the bike (well - i think so!) im guessing there is an original earthing strap or is it best to go with fresh wire?
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The original bracket when bought as a spare has no paint either side where the hole is to ensure good contact to engine and cable, as to new or old check for corossion and looseness at the ends if good use it
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Hi Bryan.
Yeah - the triangle bit is in good condition - i had it powder coated.!
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There is the thick looking cable that Teds pictured, that connects to the negative pole on the battery, there is also a loom earth normally located at the coils.
Ted with that much excess cable in the bend is the battery neg cable too long? They normally are a fairly snug fit.
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So scrape it off both sides where the hole is then use vaseline to stop rusting but after you bolted it tight
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Yessir....as i say ill be in the garage tomorrow hopefully so ill take some more pics....
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There is the thick looking cable that Teds pictured, that connects to the negative pole on the battery, there is also a loom earth normally located at the coils.
Ted with that much excess cable in the bend is the battery neg cable too long? They normally are a fairly snug fit.
It's what came with the bike Ken tbh I saw no point in changing it.
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That frame keeps getting blue-er..Fab, I love it!
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Didnt get as far as i wanted today....my z1000 was caked in allsorts so it took a while to get it cleaned up....and, as others have said in here - rebuilding the Honda is a 3 steps forward 2 steps back...got the spacers fitted (which took 5 mins) but then fitting the ground cable on top of that triangular fitting i had to sand away the bits behind to get a good ground on the frame. Just to be safe i did the front triangular fittings as well. Ive not fitted the front pipe yet as ive order a set of Ti bolts and nuts for the front triangular engine mounts as that bit is going to get everything from the road and as its a visual part i thought Ti would be a nice finish (same for the fitment of that triangular engine mount at the back. Also realized i fitted the left hand footpeg incorrectly so had to refit that as well. Once ive got the bolts i can fit the exhaust.
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I think the stainless spacers look nice though....its the little things...(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221106/5b7ca5da7a8adb096d9d0afb81f01f40.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221106/11e0f7c074aa063691631b453afe8bf3.jpg)
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Nice!................we like shiney ;) 8)
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Yeah - its become my thing/bugbear... anything you buy these days off the shop floor has shit coatings.....
My z1000: not so bad but most of the bike bar the frame and engine has been either coated in cerakote or powder coat. 90% of the fixings are now either stainless or Ti...as a result it comes through the winter for the last 8 years or so unscathed...
Hypermotard....only the frame and swing arm hasnt been done...the engine has been cerakoted - everything else powder coated cerakoted. All fixings are ether ti or St. Its been a fair bit of work...when i got it about 5 years ago everything was corroded - engine paint peeling off was the worst...
RSV4: surprisingly has been the best....they built it primarily with stainless fixings and only a handful of parts have needed recoating...its a 59 plate but in pretty good nick...
Stickler for coatings and fixings i am but, from a longevity point of view it pays off...
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Hey, nice finish. But are you missing a locking pin😀
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Brilliant - tell me where ive gone wrong....valuable information!1
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Yeah right…first photo castle nut? But seriously, that brake plate is a really nice Matt finish. Is it painted?
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Ah - yes....ive got loads of split pins....
The Brake plate...if you mean the bit that the brake shoes are fitted to it was bead blasted. The whole engine has been done as well.
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Or,is that the ceracote you are referring to?
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Like the bead blast finish.
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Just bead blasted....ive not cerakoted anything on here...yet...not had to but then, this is literally a summer bike only and even then i would hazzard it wont get used more than half a dozen times per year.
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Here's the Hyper motor...
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221106/ebdf9d3de42fc51d62d4d8a1374ea50d.jpg)
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(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221106/c70cb0d9d0f4817b8946a9b0abe580ae.jpg)
Even the tappet covers were done at the same time. Came out well![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji106.png)
That’s the clear straight on top of the bead blast finish.
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I did the 400 in clear cerekote after beadblasting as the ally tarnishes a bit which is a pain but it is 40 odd years old. The engone came out mint. This is just before I bobbed it in the frame and put the carbs on for a 'ooooo, look at that' moment.
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Thats the problem with this kinda work (in the best possible way). Once youve got a good clean base (frame and engine clean) then you cant put shitty coated bits back on! :)
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Here's the Hyper motor...
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221106/ebdf9d3de42fc51d62d4d8a1374ea50d.jpg)
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Now thats a motor 8)
You must have some brass, I used to fit Renault Clio 1.4 cam belts on my ducatis up to the 748/853. I see you have monster pockets to put Ducati's own on there...........nice ;D ;)
Wicked lump that, looks great.
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Not really - i could never have afforded to pay for it all at once! (theres a guy up north called "Ducati John" he was the one that built it. He finished it, gave me a ring and said "final bill is 2.5k....i know youve not got the money to pay for it. Come and get it and just pay me what you can each month" - so i paid him over 6 months....Gentlemans agreement....he was great. Cerakoting was about 600 on top of that but because the whole thing took about 4 months from start to finish i was paying him in installments before he even started!
As far as my other half is concerned it cost a grand!
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I did the 400 in clear cerekote after beadblasting as the ally tarnishes a bit which is a pain but it is 40 odd years old. The engone came out mint. This is just before I bobbed it in the frame and put the carbs on for a 'ooooo, look at that' moment.
Roo, just so I am clear (!) The engine was bead blasted and then clear Cerakoted? I was perhaps under the misapprehension you used a silver Cerakote.... ???
Matt
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Nope - just bead blasted. I did ask the guy that did it if it needed clearcoating afterwards and he said no....theres some sort of finish in the beadblasting...i cant remember what he told me but it wont tarnish...
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I did the 400 in clear cerekote after beadblasting as the ally tarnishes a bit which is a pain but it is 40 odd years old. The engone came out mint. This is just before I bobbed it in the frame and put the carbs on for a 'ooooo, look at that' moment.
Roo, just so I am clear (!) The engine was bead blasted and then clear Cerakoted? I was perhaps under the misapprehension you used a silver Cerakote.... ???
Matt
The400 was in clear cerecote, I went for a silver on the 550 I'm doing now. I wanted a slightly more, 'not painted' look on the 400. Really stoked with the colour but equally chuffed with the 550 and the brightness of it, it suits what Im dong with it. It was easier for me to do that than paint it anyway, i dont have ovens, hot boxes or the like and if you give it to nathan, It's all done and to a great standard and I can be getting on with something else.
I did the 748/853 over 2 years as a mental challenge after a split up. Best Mechano set Ive ever built. Yours might not tarnish as your ducati cases are not that old and I would have thought, of a different mix of metal. Youve got some goodies stuck on that, love it, how does it go or havent you got it rigged up yet?
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(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221106/730496226cdc300f14411625fca40d56.jpg)
A lot brighter as I’m putting more shiny bits on this one![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji41.png)
![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji1783.png)
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(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221106/d2d1d381d90b3da4487f5de2cee4e63f.jpg)
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Oooh, aye. Really nice.
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Not bad is it? I was hoping it might draw the eye away from the crap state of the cases. At least all the fins are intact ;D
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Theres somo good engine porn on here tonight!
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Did this 650 lump for a pal couple of years ago. It was a proper anchor!
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221106/d8b175d433df2bffa83a59dbe799cca7.jpg)
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(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221106/95c8a200f7f0722aa2e14782d61c86a8.jpg)
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(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221106/5631214ad7235f75a2ed6e0b56e53526.jpg)
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Lovely - very nice.
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Grey engine paint and silver creek ore. Looked alright once together.
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Cheers Roo, I understand now! 8) 8)
Matt
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Just had a twitch….😉
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I could do with an ore from Silver Creek ;D ;D
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Lovely work there Roo and Comfysofa!
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Thanks sir....at bit more completed yesterday....
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221113/bd6c909f4d5ab9d3e4f5bdb1c8857ca0.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221113/3d07f4da1800aacfb6e91124346e64eb.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221113/4aeb2a6bdae89699231d48233465df60.jpg)
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I dont want to start drilling into the oem tool tray so going to order an aftermarket one to mound the Munit into.
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OOh - has anyone got any experience of setting up the digital ignition units atall?? - ive got the instructions and its a badly photocopied bit of paper and what i can read i dont really understand...
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No but i would set full advance with a strobe between the two timing marks and check for f mark at tickover, this to me is only time to strobe the timing
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Hi Bryan - i have no idea what you just said and i dont have a timing strobe....i think i might leave your points on (as youve set it all up) and maybe change at a later date!!
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What’s that stuff spewing out of the cam cover joint…photo no2?
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Nothings "spewing" as far as i know as its not been started yet.....Could be gasket sealant if thats what you mean?
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Oh, thought the cover had an o ring.? Or is that just the 500 and 550?. It’s just that what you can see on the outside is likely to be replicated on the inside. It’s really easy to block an oil way. Sorry to mention it…
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Bryan has built the engine for me...ive got 100% trust in his building skills! (We'll when it gets started!!)
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Ok, but not sure why gasket goo would be required?
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I didnt ask questions and didnt really notice....as i say, more than happy with the way it is....i might tidy that up at a later date....bigger fish to fry at the moment....not pressing for me atall....
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Not gasket goo but a very small amount of hondabond to keep the O ring in the groove, aftermarket ones tend to fall out so either evostick or hondabond. The inside is built with graphogen except the pistons which he is lubing with oil down the plug holes and rotation regularly,
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Cheers Bryan - totally trust in your engine building skills....it looks great...! Now the exhaust is on its starting to look like a bike again!
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I’m sure you have no reason to doubt Bryan. It’s just that I’ve never seen that before. If Bryan say it’s fine I’m sure it will be.
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No - none atall - hes managed to turn about 4 boxes of bits back into an engine (which from my point of view is amazing)....every engine has its "way" as it were....my mate has a KTM RC8r and the only way to get air out of the system (cooling) is to literally lift the front up so its almost vertical....they dont say that in the manual...!
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KTMs eh🫣
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No problems with Ktm's - i used to have a 525 supermoto (which id still have if it werent for a nagging wife) - ive not got a ktm at the moment....id love a gen 3 1290r - lovely looking bikes...
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My brother has one of those…it’s a brute. Nice ride though. His brakes bleed just fine by the way😀
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Not the brakes....the cooling system....apparently one of the KTM mechanics (at the local bikes shop - Fowlers) said thats the only real way to get all the air out...
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Wow.
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Just remembered the cam cover went on twice as i got the two tower bolts in the wrong place, havent done a 400 for a long time and the 500 dont have them.
As an old boss of mine said "Him what dont make mistakes dont do anything!" We all make em just not all own up to em
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Oh made loads of those....in fact ill take a photo later on....got a few bits of which ive no idea where they go!!!
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Oh goody long distance wheres wally
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Sorry Ladies/Gents....been a while - getting over xmas plus im still amassing electrical bits for the motogadget loom build (of which ive no idea really where to start but ill cross that bridge as i go...)
Leads me to this question - ive not really looked at the electrical stuff that i have....pulled it all apart and stuck it in the cupboard...now im here ive just grabbed the Regulator/Rectifier and im pretty sure mines non standard....
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230108/7794a7c4085287509411a94163cad5f8.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230108/b8d6c67060796541f8689583b6ba0ff1.jpg)
Wasnt me that changed it (if it was) its been there since Dad owned it....heres what i think is an original...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/312112786263?hash=item48ab5f2b57:g:dKkAAOSwx1BhYCfd&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAsCbAjtsJL2fAg0rAnvJTcDcrrXDrDcfcNeWbjrnm3%2B%2Bu81Yyq8M77yWW1h6WG%2B9MBLPizFFTGrxtUzHjzPH2p8Q47vhOC%2FnuTXykeCQ%2BoodD%2BsutSEB92Bc5vzWN9poCD3XmaKxYX3HNgenihW2GQ0E1P3ikbYd5l9MJ9UN4jTVyaXgZdrgkGnSx1Y6GW1qofdoVQNu%2FGV99DoGOlMn0trYUrBJ8ribvZjhEVEHjwK5C%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR4a36I6yYQ
And heres the question....this is a brand spanker...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/232215773585?epid=18017011254&hash=item3611238191:g:sDoAAOSwNgVhcBeP&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA8P%2FV7FDQwY7%2BFneJGx%2B6LRQagbtLZOc5Kh3%2FmBfQsXg85tQ%2BxU4qLXYdGhv2uvw2%2B56d54HMio1yVucWYuOOnEDGkwSJ3n8WNZfAd1FfuXv3riYFZmcnJIDwegdnJd8%2BI8v9Sk7zbL9PEoLNQVc%2FOVOifnqmtRfj6fAUaK%2Bk5mH175e%2Fa7xvvB9SUNcZ4EmUHDtg4rKwndhnW4ceM8NsOaID6oWFJg%2FbgV5YTTXtdMNQxA35PFkBWktkPiSXSBpG%2BPWM4apshzp7w1%2FVvvY8FHn5M3JJNZ0wCOaND2yhZtFrYKIdgNKb3ddqn4WTVeihpg%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABFBMhrfojrJh
Ive got a JMT lithium battery for it so wondered if im ok with my one i have here or, whats the advantage of the brand new one (does it deal with Lithium batteries any better?)
The reason i ask is i dont want to spend any extra if i dont have to......theres always been a long running argument on the Duc forum regarding OEM R/R's with lithium batteries...personally ive got lithium batteries in all my bikes - never had an issue with them and they are all on stock R/R's....what says you lot?
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Just to add to this, this is the arrangement for the electrics i was looking at - if, ive overlooked anything please say...not ive not used my oem tray - this is a pattern one so ill happily be drilling into this to mount it all....
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230108/3366817de393b1713dc382acd1e68e6b.jpg)
RR at the top left - ive bought a set of plug to lengthen the OEM RR up to the tray....i wont commit to drilling holes until you lot give me the go-ahead..!
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Probably an obvious point, but should the rectifier be in ‘open air’ rather than being fully enclosed. Just wondering if overheating and premature failure might be an issue?
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That is just the rectifier, the regulator is a seperate part with green, black and white wires going to it.
Just to add the first ebay is for a 400 twin which did have a combined unit and if you want to use a lithium battery you need a better, so more expensive, regulator to keep the charging voltagemore within the batterys limits, the standard Honda one is to course a setting
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Sorry. Are you saying the rectifier doesn’t need to be in free air? I don’t recall mentioning the regulator?
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cool - ok...so the suggestion is, keep the RR outside in airflow and get the new one on ebay?
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As long as its suitable for lithium battery yes, BUT remember one split second of wrong connection and its toast
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Hi Bryan! (ill use the old lead acid battery to test with then!)
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Ooh - another question (electrically related) i need to get a shed load of crimp conectors to connect to all the oem switch gear....im guessing theres different sizes...well, i know there are, just wondered if anyone knew the size/has a link?
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hence the mesage, give us a shout...............
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Yessir!
![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji16.png)
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Oooh, Motogadget. I shall follow with interest as I was going to fit one of these to a custom Triumph I have in the wings. Does yours have bluetooth?
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Yep - got the bluetooth one. Had a good long chat with Laverdaroo last night...i think hes doing another 400/4 (or just about to start.) When i start there will be a load of pics incoming...
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I’m just starting to do mine Tim, I believe Andy’s is a blue unit same as mine. The one I fitted to the400 was great to fit and works perfectly, really chuffed with it.
Get one bought![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji106.png)
![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji106.png)
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I’m just starting to do mine Tim, I believe Andy’s is a blue unit same as mine. The one I fitted to the400 was great to fit and works perfectly, really chuffed with it.
Get one bought![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji106.png)
![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji106.png)
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I feel a visit coming on!!
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Funny - hes said that to me last night....electrics is my weakest suit but, i can kinda see how it hangs together...!
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In the garage pottering.... As its a few years since this came apart and I'm replacing the whole loom... Wots dis then.? (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230115/c41a764871d16c6826ce18cfb591e04f.jpg)
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Came to a final point for the munit mount... As I'm using the original air box the relay can sit in its usual place...
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(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230115/7dfc5e56ae1e94bc4bf4a07be856388b.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230115/f872f1b2adec2e190d3b6b45e9b3df2f.jpg)
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In the garage pottering.... As its a few years since this came apart and I'm replacing the whole loom... Wots dis then.? (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230115/c41a764871d16c6826ce18cfb591e04f.jpg)
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It's the fuse box, open it up and there will be 3 active fuses and 2 spares.
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But you won’t need it for the M unit as it has integral protection inside. Ideally you need to mount it to something metal as it earths through the mounting points so if it being mounted to a plastic box say, the system won’t work.
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I was just about to say.....(dont need that then!!)
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But you won’t need it for the M unit as it has integral protection inside. Ideally you need to mount it to something metal as it earths through the mounting points so if it being mounted to a plastic box say, the system won’t work.
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Yep - my theory was to connect a ground from the engine/frame to the munit? (is that not good enough?)
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If you're dead set on using the Munit in that tray I think I would be tempted to cut a thin sheet of steel the same size as that tray, mount the Munit to the steel and run the earth from your frame to the plate. Nice and tidy and keeps things held in better with less tension and vibration.
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If you're dead set on using the Munit in that tray I think I would be tempted to cut a thin sheet of steel the same size as that tray, mount the Munit to the steel and run the earth from your frame to the plate. Nice and tidy and keeps things held in better with less tension and vibration.
Roo, I agree with that.
Without looking at the bike, is there any room to put the M unt where the fuse box was?
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In the garage today headscratching wiring up the 400. So far ive got the....
1. RegRec connected (whether it actually works ive no idea)!
2. Starter button working.
Annnnddd...thats about it...doing the simple stuff first...ive been following an munit wiring video on youtube but fucking no idea how to do the headlight with the stock switchgear so ive resorted to hot wiring a bulb with a couple of cable attached to it....if the light comes on....then i guessed right!
Oh....the horn...where does that bolt to? (thats another simple one i thinki could do..)
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I did post a link when I first read about your plan to fit an M Unit looks like something too complicated for me & my limited electrical abilies & understanding.
This is a cleverly-marketed German device that claims to simplify your custom wiring job. Available in normal (£213) or Bluetooth (£310) spec, it acts (among other things) as a fuse box, flasher unit and power distribution device. But perhaps the main idea is that it can receive signals from all the handlebar switches through a single wire, rather than the more usual bundle. As most people freak out at electrics, it sounds a tempting proposition.
The single-wire thing works fine, but only with a doohickey called an M-Button (£45), which you connect to the switches and hide in the handlebars – not always an easy task. It then uses can-bus technology to send the different signals down the single cable to the M-Unit, which typically lives under the seat.
Most people also use push-button switchgear with an M-Unit (typically made by Motogadget, Motone or ISR). But OE switches can work too.
I should say that you don’t have to use the M-Button; you can connect push-button switchgear directly to the M-Unit via a conventional bundle of wires. As they run under the tank anyway, you aren’t going to see them.
Motogadget M Unit Blue
I have a bit of a problem with the M-Unit system. Not only is it more complicated, expensive and fiddly to assemble than a conventional switchgear setup; the push-button switches use screw connections just like the ones in a domestic plug. I’ve seen these come undone on an iron, so they hardly seem suitable on a vibrating bike. Push-button switchgear has a couple of other drawbacks too – see switchgear in our guide to motorcycle electrics. The cheaper of the two M Units (the V2, £213) uses screw connections as well, but the newer M-Unit Blue (£310) is a bit more civilised, with spring contacts.
I refer to the below text as per my previous post link.
To protect the copper cable strands from the screws Motogadget supply little ferrules, like you get on the end of a bicycle gear cable, but I’ve never found there to be enough in the packet. I’m afraid it doesn’t stop there; the M Unit is predicated on the idea that you switch the entire bike on with one set of contacts. On some bikes (for example the ZXR400/750, CBX1000, W650), turning the ignition switch also connects part of the charging system. In other words, you need two separate sets of contacts to be on when you’re running, and off when you’re not. I’ve asked Motogadget’s tech support about this and they couldn’t advise me. You can work around it with a separate switch or relay, or use one of the ‘Aux’ connections, but it’s hardly ideal.
My advice is to ask yourself the question: what problems do you anticipate your custom bike will have that an M-Unit will solve? If you want to vary your indicator flash rate, or the pulsing of your brake light, or turn your bike on with your phone, then go for it. If you just want a bike with working lights, horn and ignition, save your money.
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I completely disagree with all of that Ted, done two of these now and onto my thrird fitment of one onto the 550. Far simpler, far easier and faster if you're making a loom.
If you want an easy to take off, bolt on system then go for the OE loom, if you want a few more options and to do away with loads of un needed stuff the M unit is spot on. They're not £300 plus if you shop about and really easy to fit. I'm on the phone to Andy later re his so we can have a chat. Honestly, the Munit's are really good. Yes you can have keyless, yes you can have one wire this and that but YOU DONT HAVE TO!
It has a diagnostice setting showing everything and and draw down from individual circuits and a heap of other features but its good. I have an M button on the 400 but not on the 550.
FOR EXAMPLE........
Feed from switch to INPUT on the Munit from headlight light (for example) with the switch grounded.
Earth from light to Frame or similar
Feed from Munit OUTPUT to the light
tap switch, light comes from, tap again, light goes off..............simples!
Inputs on one side of frame, outputs on the other, keeps the wiring tidy, theres far less of it and easier for fault finding. If ever there's a fault it's a grounding fault and easily found. The screws dont come undone and have a plastic lock washer incorperated into the set up so never vibrate loose, already proved that one having a unit fitted to a DR350 which is green laned often by a pal. He has had zero issues with it.
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I was quoting Rupert Paul whoever he is Roo.
I seem to be treading on everyone's toes today with my blather.🫣
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Yep - thanks for the call earlier sir....some things have started to click....
Ted: in response to why ive gone down this route....
1. less wiring.
2. No fusebox.
3. I want to utilize LED lighting (this fits the Munits m.o. perfectly)
4. The amount of times ive come across old bikes on the side of the road dead due to electrics....i wanted, not, to be that person....just to add ive got a digital ignition to add at a later date..
5. The built in alarm.
Its my old mans bike...he passed away 10 years ago now...it doesnt really need them but itll be getting a set of Nitron rear shocks...why, i just want them...its kind of a resto mod...the munit is kinda part of that.....i full expect to hopefully get it working and then at a later date probably refine it as its the first time ive done it....
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I was quoting Rupert Paul whoever he is Roo.
I seem to be treading on everyone's toes today with my blather.🫣
AAhh, thats why its tosh then ;D ;D
Give over yer miserable ol bugger, clean something or find summut to do and stop being grumpy ;D
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I was quoting Rupert Paul whoever he is Roo.
I seem to be treading on everyone's toes today with my blather.🫣
Rupert Paul used to be a journo on performance bikes 25 odd years ago....i think he now runs his own company called "Rupe's Re-Wires"
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If Rupert Paul makes wiring looms he probably/might/will have a built in bias against the M system.
I will be interested to see some photos of the wiring system as it progresses using the Motogadget Box system - presumably there will be an interface at the handlebar an M button?.
The 500 seems to have little built in protection with just one fuse so on reflection it looks an interesting option if you have the wiring ability.
My wiring skills might lead to a spaghetti junction look without being able to get a handle on how it looks in practice.
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Yeah - i think thats where im at...(the whole spaghetti thing) but, another aspect of this is the learning curve....never been good with electrics and thought this would be a good way to learn....i have used an munit before (the older type) and while a mate fitted it all - i will say that with regards to the mbutton and the switch gear (im using all oem this time) i did feel that the wiring was very flimsy and thin (dunno what roo thinks as hes using all that stuff i think) but - the downside is that using the oem switchgear presents its own set of problems as its more custom (getting it all connected and working like it used to)
Left to my own devices yesterday as i said before somethings have started to click and i can start to see, the simplicity of the way the MUnit works...
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There's basic difference in concept between the two, discussion may help understanding.
Original would route power to a bulb, for example, by going from battery supply, through the bar switch , then to the bulb. open/close the switch and you cut/connect that route. So very simple on/off status.
M unit, has route from battery supply, through solid state switch (inside M unit) then onward to bulb. That solid state switch interrupts the supply, but its "called" by the remote handlebar switch to ask it to go on/off, hence the bar switch needs only to handle a signal voltage and not full load. Which is why those operating wires are small.
It's effectively all a relay system, the M unit, with power handled by the primary wires, then an overlay of command switching telling the unit what you want it to do with light duty signal system.
Both are reliable if all built properly and connected well. No particular advantage either way as the whole system is not actually controlling much on these bikes.
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It maybe "stating the bleedin obvious" (faulty towers reference) but both system requires competent earthing to all components exactly the same, else neither will work properly :)
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This is true but one loom is 40+ years old and the other one is brand new...
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Just wot K2K6 wrote ;D
Heaps tidier and a lot less space consuming and of course all the other benefits of alarm. keyless ignition, tracker, position finder, diagnostic screen for problem solving, 'draw down' real time scematic showing individual draw in voltage for each circuit and trouble shooting auto settings so that if there's an issuewith a circuit it will close and re route to get you home showing clear indication as to where the fault lies and what circuit has the error. It is a really good system if you have no loom to start with or components mssing or even fancy having a go or indeed have made up all the items in your loom, its a really realy good application.
Once all the info is in it will track your milage, advise of milage related service intervals tyre reminders, etc. theres lpads of features i cant remember either but its worth a read.
Ted, watch REVIVAL CYCLES TECH TALK on 'wiring your motorcycle' and ' wiring your revival cycles starter solenoid' (dont buy one from them there 48 quid..........18 over here in the UK.
The wiring kit is dead simple also with every wire printed on it with where it goes and colour coded such as INPUT R IND, OUTPUT R IND, START, HORN etc etc. easy to follow......have a read wiv a brew Ted 8)
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Roo, to save me looking it all up, does this device interface with a PC via Bluetooth for doiagnostics (or a smartphone)?
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Theres a smartphone app (which is really nice) but as im only semi-wired in ive not had the chance to use it yet...
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Got to ask how do you end up with keyless ignition Roo?
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It works blue tooth to your phone or to your PC. I just use the phone app on the 400 and its really good. If I can work it, it cant be half bad.
Ted the keyless ignt is just a setting you can have but basically if your using the app and have it coded to the bike as part of the configuration set up, when within 1,2,3,4,5m of the bike you can walk up amd start it without a key and everything works as it should. What happens when your phone goes flat? Use the keythats in my pocket as I do.
You can do heaps with it. For example I go to the app and look at charging system, turn, say, the indocator on and it shows me exactly what Im drawing to make that work on the bike, what effect thats having on my battery, real time and a host of other gubbins. Handy for problem solving etc etc and looking for bad connections as the failing circuit is highlighted as flashing. You just set up via the brief book and in conjunction with the app it works great.
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Bloody hell Roo I'm still learning to use my newish phone (5 months) it's a "Lot Smarter than Ted" model a Google Pixel 6 wish I had stuck to Samsung tbh.
Plenty to do before I think about electrics.
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It works blue tooth to your phone or to your PC. I just use the phone app on the 400 and its really good. If I can work it, it cant be half bad.
Ted the keyless ignt is just a setting you can have but basically if your using the app and have it coded to the bike as part of the configuration set up, when within 1,2,3,4,5m of the bike you can walk up amd start it without a key and everything works as it should. What happens when your phone goes flat? Use the keythats in my pocket as I do.
You can do heaps with it. For example I go to the app and look at charging system, turn, say, the indocator on and it shows me exactly what Im drawing to make that work on the bike, what effect thats having on my battery, real time and a host of other gubbins. Handy for problem solving etc etc and looking for bad connections as the failing circuit is highlighted as flashing. You just set up via the brief book and in conjunction with the app it works great.
Bloody hell! Does it make you a coffee as well? If so, I'll have one. 👍
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The Bean Counter in me says buy a new loom if needed only costs £62.50 plus VAT from Elextrex World - my Lizard Brain says make life complicated and go for M unit solution. ;D ;D ;D
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Hey all - work has been going on wiring the M-unit Laverdaroo has been a mountain of patience trying to explain the finer points of motorcycle wiring (and the Munit - which usually ends up with me displaying a screwed up face and then saying errrr.....
A few changes have happened....we tried to use the original switchgear but it was way too hard....so made the jump to Renthal bars and motogadget switch gear....after getting all that sorted out and getting the motogadget buttons working - the penny kinda dropped and a lot of what Laverdaroo had said fell into place so.....ive been getting through the wiring steadily....got indicators, lights, brake lights, ignition switch.... one of my questions is the headlight - is there an led replacement for the front bulb..? getting all the bulbs over to LEDs was on my checklist of subtle restomods.... pictures will follow soon...!
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You could have a chat with Paul Goff who should be able to sort you out.
http://www.norbsa02.freeuk.com
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Once you know the bulb type that is fitted in your headlight you can search for a quality LED supplier as per Multiman's link or try https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/
If you do not know the bulb type a phone call or an online message enquiry should work.
E-bay cheaper versions often fail within days or you get the dreaded LED flicker syndrome.
I found this helpful when I wanted one for our Jeep. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automotive_light_bulb_types
Sometimes bulb types are listed on headlamp lenzes or in handbooks.
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Spot on - thanks very much sir. Ill take a look now.
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Have a read of this, with pics so you know what you're getting. The ones to get are linked.
http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,25595.msg234557.html#msg234557
Oh and since I did that thread I have 2 friends who ride with me every Thursday down dark country lanes when Autumn arrives, they both have Harleys and were always complaining about not being able to see that well, it was so bad they'd sit behind me on my 1300 with that headlight bulb fitted just to be able to see, they bought a pair between them and the difference really was night and day, now they are confident and do the leading. They've since passed on the link to all the others at the bike meet and most have bought a pair.
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On a 400 the original bulb type looks to be a Type S2 - this defines the size of the bulb cap, pin offsets & contact layout so it fits your bulb holder - you have to watch out for taller bulbs that might not fit etc - you can then go for quartz or LED - as Ken states a lot of LED's are poor on the beam spread & cut off. It's an evolving market still imho for the retro market.
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Went to the site last night...shit - theyve got everything on there havent they! (it looks like theyve even got those tiny little dummy lights in LED's as well) - so assuming they fit ill definately be getting some of those...!
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Thought this deserved its own post.....i actually got it started last night...! the throttle is a bit sticky (so it ran away a couple of times) and the carb overflows are leaking fuel but.....it started and, i might add the engine feels (through the bars) as smooth as anything ive felt. So, first - my thanks to Bryan, top job sir, top job....thanks so much for rebuilding the boxes of schrapnel that i gave you... my old man's bike is alive again!
Coupled with the Munit which id say im about 70% through the connectivity part - still got the dummy lights to wire in (no idea how to do that yet) but Roo is helping me with that... and then a tidy up of the loom in general and then tape it all up and maybe separate sections of the loom so it can all be unplugged for working on it...
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Current state of the wiring....not too bad!(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230731/aa23da4a86352e3db301009faf99e3f8.jpg)
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Went to the site last night...shit - theyve got everything on there havent they! (it looks like theyve even got those tiny little dummy lights in LED's as well) - so assuming they fit ill definately be getting some of those...!
I fitted all LED bulbs on the instruments & panel lights. Choose the colours carefully and you get some great results. I had advice from a member but can't remember who. Green is good for Speedo & Rev counter.
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I also fitted LED bulbs to the instruments (low profile ones to match the old bulbs) BUT found them too directional / bright. Two coats of white nail polish on the top diffuses the light perfectly. (alas the Mrs didn't have any but the pound shop did!!)
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I totally forgot to take pics this morning (in the office now) do you have links to the bulbs you ordered?
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Current state of the wiring....not too bad!(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230731/aa23da4a86352e3db301009faf99e3f8.jpg)
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Getting there. I assume that the fat red lead coming out of the hole in the frame and down to the solenoid is temporary? Where it routes at the moment is where the rear tank rubber sits so it will get in the way of the tank fixing. It's normally a lot shorter and goes almost direct from starter motor to solenoid. If it is temporary, ignore everything wot I said!
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Heh no ..that's the fuel pipe!
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Just be careful on the length of the bulb as some are too deep to sit in the headlight bucket, especially if you’re going to put connectors in there, it’s mighty tight in there.
Bell you later Andy![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji106.png)
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Speak to you later.! (gonna take the bulbs out later on, measure and take pics) - then contact them so i get it right....
Must confess after yesterdays start up i cant wait to have a go on it again...its been a while..!
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Just be careful on the length of the bulb as some are too deep to sit in the headlight bucket, especially if you’re going to put connectors in there, it’s mighty tight in there.
Bell you later Andy![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji106.png)
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If it helps I think I might have the part numbers from when I bought them from the LED Classic site - send me a PM if you want me to look through my files - they were not too bright as most were coloured but not all.
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That'd be great if you could (i could possibly get them on order today!) - thanks very much.
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That'd be great if you could (i could possibly get them on order today!) - thanks very much.
This invoice shows the ones I bought for my 500 as can't find my previous invoice - the SKU number shows the colour of the LED's
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53083671199_9880cc3d2b_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oSPG3k)LED's (https://flic.kr/p/2oSPG3k) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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Brilliant - is there one for the headlight? (in that....did you get one?) or should i say are they available?
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Got the order in. For anyone that wants to know the headlight is a BA20D - 28 quid! - dont mind though...the whole thing will now be running LED's across the board...!
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Brilliant - is there one for the headlight? (in that....did you get one?) or should i say are they available?
I fitted the Land Rover LED headlamp unit in a 500 casing - my 400 has a none standard headlamp atm.
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Not electrically related but on starting it last night it was leaking fuel out of the float bowls....nothing to do with Bryan - first and foremost he made the box of sharpnel i gave him look like carbs again for which im eternally grateful - he did say at the time "ive set them as best as i can..." first and foremost its 20+ years since ive messed with carbs and its never turned out well! - is there anything i can adjust while theyre in situ - or do they have to come out for adjustment..?
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Could be the float needles stuck, tap the bowls with the handle of a screwdriver to see if it shakes the needles/floate loose.
With the correct small screwdriver you can undo the screws holding the bowls on and as it wasnt too long ago they should undo to make sure floats are free and will cut fuel off when lifted
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That'd be great if you could (i could possibly get them on order today!) - thanks very much.
This invoice shows the ones I bought for my 500 as can't find my previous invoice - the SKU number shows the colour of the LED's
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53083671199_9880cc3d2b_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oSPG3k)LED's (https://flic.kr/p/2oSPG3k) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
I fitted all LED to my silver 550, all of them blow within 6 month's . I even had to get Ash to make a box of tricks just to keep the LED on the number plate light. Now all back to standard bulbs apart from the number plate light ;)
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This lot on Andy’s is through the M unit so they won’t blow as they would running through old Honda OEM wiring. It’s all new wires going on so shouldn’t have any issues with things going pop.
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Could be the float needles stuck, tap the bowls with the handle of a screwdriver to see if it shakes the needles/floate loose.
With the correct small screwdriver you can undo the screws holding the bowls on and as it wasnt too long ago they should undo to make sure floats are free and will cut fuel off when lifted
Hey Bryan! nice to hear from you....ill check that tonight! many thanks....its looking amazing by the way...i put the tank on last night temporarily to get it started.. that was a biggie for me...as it almost looks complete.!
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This lot on Andy’s is through the M unit so they won’t blow as they would running through old Honda OEM wiring. It’s all new wires going on so shouldn’t have any issues with things going pop.
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Yes, i am aware of that Roo. But, other member do not. On my build i was advised by a member to put all LED's in and he reckoned they were the best thing since sliced bread. He knows who he is and forgot to mention that he had a M-unit and had upgraded every electrical component :o
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I could only think thats down to the age of the bike....my Hypermotard you see in the pic has a lithium battery and all the lights are LED...ive not had one fail....and theres horror stories of the Reg/rec's failing and litium batteries failing and ive seen none of it...same for the rsv4 and my z1000....all have been fine. Going back to the 400 - i mean its a really old bike from a tech point of view...!
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Steve should set up another section for non standard bike's. Member wouldn't get so confused ;)
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From an electrical point of view maybe.... as mine is completely different under the hood (which is what i wanted) - that being said the signature finishing touch for me will be a set of Nitron rear shocks (fully adjustable) when i pay my credit card off! totally not needed as its rolling pig iron but more of an aesthetic finishing touch!
Maybe convert yours to motogadget - i am a convert - once id got the hang of it, its wasnt too hard plus its removed (i would say) about 70% of the old wiring and making it more reliable in the process...
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This lot on Andy’s is through the M unit so they won’t blow as they would running through old Honda OEM wiring. It’s all new wires going on so shouldn’t have any issues with things going pop.
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Yes, i am aware of that Roo. But, other member do not. On my build i was advised by a member to put all LED's in and he reckoned they were the best thing since sliced bread. He knows who he is and forgot to mention that he had a M-unit and had upgraded every electrical component :o
I’ve only ever heard of issues trying to plumb in LED’s into old wiring, I was advised never to do it. If you’re going full LED’s it’s basically a rewire job. To save the grief.
Thankfully the lights on the Viffer are awesome so wouldn’t want to change them in the slightest. Wouldn’t want to go into that lot what with 3 computers, ABS management etc. the harness is a monster on this, I shall never grumble about having lack of access ever again on the CB’s, the Viffer is an utter pig to work on.
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Not electrically related but on starting it last night it was leaking fuel out of the float bowls....nothing to do with Bryan - first and foremost he made the box of sharpnel i gave him look like carbs again for which im eternally grateful - he did say at the time "ive set them as best as i can..." first and foremost its 20+ years since ive messed with carbs and its never turned out well! - is there anything i can adjust while theyre in situ - or do they have to come out for adjustment..?
I've found just shaking the bike from side to side usually fixes it.
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From an electrical point of view maybe.... as mine is completely different under the hood (which is what i wanted) - that being said the signature finishing touch for me will be a set of Nitron rear shocks (fully adjustable) when i pay my credit card off! totally not needed as its rolling pig iron but more of an aesthetic finishing touch!
Maybe convert yours to motogadget - i am a convert - once id got the hang of it, its wasnt too hard plus its removed (i would say) about 70% of the old wiring and making it more reliable in the process...
I like to keep things simple and standard. Custom bike builder " Desperate Dan's" never used motogadget back in the 80's, they just used a 10p chocolate block connectors ;)
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That'd be great if you could (i could possibly get them on order today!) - thanks very much.
This invoice shows the ones I bought for my 500 as can't find my previous invoice - the SKU number shows the colour of the LED's
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53083671199_9880cc3d2b_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oSPG3k)LED's (https://flic.kr/p/2oSPG3k) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
I fitted all LED to my silver 550, all of them blow within 6 month's . I even had to get Ash to make a box of tricks just to keep the LED on the number plate light. Now all back to standard bulbs apart from the number plate light ;)
Aside from cheap LEDs a few years back I've had no issue with converting to LED if the contacts are reasonably clean.
My Jeeps an old 55 plate all the festoon bulbs work fine as they did on our previous Jeep.
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Your Jeep is a car and not a sohc Honda :o
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This lot on Andy’s is through the M unit so they won’t blow as they would running through old Honda OEM wiring. It’s all new wires going on so shouldn’t have any issues with things going pop.
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Yes, i am aware of that Roo. But, other member do not. On my build i was advised by a member to put all LED's in and he reckoned they were the best thing since sliced bread. He knows who he is and forgot to mention that he had a M-unit and had upgraded every electrical component :o
I’ve only ever heard of issues trying to plumb in LED’s into old wiring, I was advised never to do it. If you’re going full LED’s it’s basically a rewire job. To save the grief.
Thankfully the lights on the Viffer are awesome so wouldn’t want to change them in the slightest. Wouldn’t want to go into that lot what with 3 computers, ABS management etc. the harness is a monster on this, I shall never grumble about having lack of access ever again on the CB’s, the Viffer is an utter pig to work on.
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Maybe Ash should explain as, he found that they can't be just fitted and built me a box of tricks. He did not build a box of tricks for no reason ;)
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Just had a chat with Roo on the phone - ive set the air/fuel screws but apparently i might have my throttle cables routed incorrectly....apparently theres a diagram somewhere...ive got my original manual here along with the Haynes but cant see it...yet! (they feel loose) but apparently its very critical.
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A decent quality LED can cope with a wide range of voltages some are not polarity specific plus they use lower currents so why re-wire. Never ever ever had a problem.👍👍👍
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I can only say about my experience with LED on a standard wiring on a SOHC and not what i have read or you tube videos that i have watched ;)
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I have well over 5 years experience with LEDs on cars & house friends vehicles never had a problem.
Don't believe all you see on U-tube Graham
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My 1300 is using an LED headlight bulb on original wiring, it's been in for 2 years now, as it's a modern bike the headlight is permanently on, so that's a lot of hours it's been used. I can't see any problem with old wiring, the draw of an LED is far lower than a halogen bulb, why would they cause problems?
I know that indicators LEDs can be a problem but for me it's about buying quality bulbs, get the best and they last.
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I agree completely with that Ken.👍👍👍
You get what you pay for plus the quality even from China has improved no end.
I have a bedside lamp that pre-dates our house fire in 2017 it is a touch sensitive LED with a plastic casing - still going strong.
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Your Jeep is a car and not a sohc Honda :o
Car, Bike & House electricity works pretty much the same on all applications. Electricity is not brand aware it's only electrons having a shuffle.
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As i have already mentioned Ted. I tried and it did not work, and that was with a new loom and everything with replacement new wires.
My experience is my experience of LED.
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As i have already mentioned Ted. I tried and it did not work, and that was with a new loom and everything with replacement new wires.
My experience is my experience of LED.
I accept that was your experience Graham but that does not make others with positive experiences any less valid.
A Honda sohc has what 12 volts DC flowing down a wire can't see how that differs from from any other automotive set up.
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As i have already mentioned Ted. I tried and it did not work, and that was with a new loom and everything with replacement new wires.
My experience is my experience of LED.
I accept that was your experience Graham but that does not make others with positive experiences any less invalid.
A Honda sohc has what 12 volts DC flowing down a wire can't see how that differs from from any other automotive set up.
Ask that question to Ash. He is the electronic professor that had to build a box of tricks for two little LED lights to work. I am just a simple Honda engineer ;)
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As I said previously I have never had a problem with good quality LED on old wiring looms.
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I have found that vehicle led bulb standards vary a lot, i have had 501 replacements in both orange and white where some only work one way round and others work both ways round, i have had led headlamps last for years or hours
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I've done hundreds of LED conversions in cars, my Astra G had a dash with over 300 leds in it, all blue and reds, it looked like a space ship in the dark. Depending on the colour LEDs have different voltage needs, reds take less volts than white for instance, IIRC a red is 1.2v and a white is 3.3v, so it's not a case of one size fits all, they need to have a resistor fitted to reduce the voltage down to what the LED actually needs, they are also prone to voltage spikes, so the best solution is to either over resist them or even better fit a voltage stabiliser, which I'm fairly sure is what Ash made It provides a constant set voltage, making it ideal for LEDs and making them last longer. Any spikes are absorbed by the circuitry in the box, I used to over resist mine, however when voltages spiked at over 15.5v as they often did even that can get tested to the limit. Over resisting also meant they weren't as bright as they would be with proper resistance but there's always a down side to all solutions.
A good LED these days will actually be soldered to a small PCB, micro small in fact. The resistors and surge protection will on the board, the better the board, the better the LED as a rule. Good boards cost more than bad boards, hence the price difference. Buy good LED bulbs and they'll last, get bad and they may or they may not. When an LED starts strobing you know it's on it's way out, replace before it goes completely.
If you want them to last buy LED bulbs which use SMDs not LEDs, SMDs are surface mounted diodes and are usually much more robust then LEDs, your cars dash is normally SMDs, you don't see them going much do you? Whereas high level brake light repeaters like on the tailgate are normally LEDs and you often see one or 2 of those not working on older cars.
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I have found that vehicle led bulb standards vary a lot, i have had 501 replacements in both orange and white where some only work one way round and others work both ways round, i have had led headlamps last for years or hours
I agree with you Bryan for the lucrative aftermarket there were/are lot of cheap but unreliable LED's on the market that is price driven.
The headlamp bulbs in our previous Jeep (WJ) had built in cooling fans, iirc they were not polarity specific. Essential that there was plenty of space around the headlamp fittings - an area quite limited on bikes.
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So anyway, Andy what you been doing to the 400 over the last couple of days, you had those cables off yet and the carbs checked and made sure they’re all set right. The mixture screws won’t effect the high reviving much but a contributing factor in the mix no doubt. I still think it’s the cable operation personally. I could bob over tmrw eve if you’re a bit stuck and suffering from ‘snow blindness’……….it happens.
Keep us all up to date bud.
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Yep - sure - ill try disconnectng the throttle cables tonight and see how it runs...
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I'd try rerouting the cables, didn't really study the pic before but your running another type of throttle grip and to me I think it would be better to raise up the MC, run the cables below or in front of the MC. Also check the wiring routing on the PDI instructions for the 400, throttle cable routing is vital to getting a decent tickover, far too many are routed wrong and that causes friction in the cables, they don't return as they should and you can get that hanging idle effect if it's really bad. A little silicon oil down the cable inners will help a lot as well, even new they benefit from some oil but it must be silicon oil.
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Hey. Done a bit more tonight....first and foremost the throttle cables arent the issue. If i disconnect them completely start the bike and move the carbs with my hand they do the same thing so ive put them [the throttle cables] back on but made extra sure [bit of adjustment] that theyre free and moving, and there is slack at the carb end.
On the plus side i got the banjo bolt and the bolt for the lever for the front brake so thats bled and now working. Also worked out how to get the dummy lights working and the backlights for the clocks as well...some of the bulbs are dead but ive got the [shudder to say it] led ones on order....so quite sure i can finish all the electrics from a connectivty point of view.
Might need someone better than me to examine the carbs [Roo] nudge nudge....
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230801/7ef2793fadbbc07be3b9e5f8af29b9ee.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230801/a2a51562e941e3ff5cac930863198359.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230801/c5b42a3f9b960a2e268aed2a57f8e258.jpg)
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Th
Hoping to have the lump out of the viffer tonight so gonna have a night of Thursday. I could bob up then for a twiddle?
Can’t believe you said the L%D word![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji38.png)
Let me know old froot…![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji106.png)
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Have you checked the fast idle linkage thats attached to the choke, not the main idle adjuster. With the choke off fully the fast idle adjuster should have clearance of 0.012 inch. There is more detail in the manual.
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Have you checked the fast idle linkage thats attached to the choke, not the main idle adjuster. With the choke off fully the fast idle adjuster should have clearance of 0.012 inch. There is more detail in the manual.
No idea what your talking about! I'll have a look at the manual....Im pretty sure I've got nothing that measures in inches! Down that fine!....as I say nothing I've attempted carb related has never turned out well...it usually ends in fuel going everywhere! Many thanks for the pointer though gives me something to look for!
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Th
Hoping to have the lump out of the viffer tonight so gonna have a night of Thursday. I could bob up then for a twiddle?
Can’t believe you said the L%D word![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji38.png)
Let me know old froot…![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji106.png)
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Great if you don't worry if you can't though sir!
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Th
Hoping to have the lump out of the viffer tonight so gonna have a night of Thursday. I could bob up then for a twiddle?
Can’t believe you said the L%D word![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji38.png)
Let me know old froot…![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji106.png)
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Great if you don't worry if you can't though sir!
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I’m up for it bud, I mentioned the idle circuit the other night on the phone but you weren’t getting it. That was Thursday evenings job amongst other Diddles. Don’t fret I’ll bring all the associated gubbins bud![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji106.png)
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Cool - well even though i chickened out on the carb front ive got the clock lights working and im pretty sure ive got the hang of the dummy lights although i think some of the old standard filament bulbs are knacked the LED lights are turning up today so ill fit those tonight assuming they work i think theres just the oil and netural lights and all the electrics are done..! wow! - it really is easy!!
And ive now got a front brake again (with the new setup) cant remember if i said..!
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Remind me of what the issue is? (Don't have time to scroll through all the pages!)
If it is the high revs not going back to 1200, then I'd lay money it was a sync issue. I was tinkering last weekend with mine as I have a sync issue and I was staggered the effect the sync has on the running of the engine. Unless someone tells me otherwise, you need a vacuum gauge to get 'em balanced / synced well. Mine are still not right but getting there as I had other things to do so it was 'down tools' for me. I return to them when the weather lets me!
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Well first and foremost ive not got any vacuum guages (although ive got an excuse to go and get some now!!)
Start the bike - tickover is not really steady but lowish....twitch the throttle, bike revs up, stays up but steadily comes down to 4k and sits there....as the engine is cold and its just been rebuilt im shutting it off near straight away...
Does this with the throttle cables disconnected also, so its not that...
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Sounds like sync issue. You don't actually need 4 gauges but I think it quicker with 4. Carbtune is also another option - same principle - but more expensive.
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Comfy, that bloke (rhymes with Pooh) who's coming over to you on Thursday night has my vacuum gauges so get him to bring them over.
Matt, you are very welcome to borrow them as well.
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I've got a couple of sets! - but thanks! ;)
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Comfy, that bloke (rhymes with Pooh) who's coming over to you on Thursday night has my vacuum gauges so get him to bring them over.
Matt, you are very welcome to borrow them as well.
Many thanks sir for the advanced use of the guages....think ill still get some though....that being said its [the honda] has kinda cleaned me out for the moment....my old man would be so happy!! :)
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Back in the 1950's my late father would tune multi carburettor engines using a listening tube and feeling the exhaust heat by hand.
It was something he learnt whilst an apprentice at RR Crewe. He taught me the basics but he was so much better than any gauge or meter.
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Ted, I seem to recall a photo from some book (maybe and old Haynes) where some guy had his ear on a tube and the other end near the carb inlet - Me thinks my hearing isn't up to it these days - too many gigs standing in front of the speaker bank!!
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I have had two hearing aids for over 20 year now so not an option for me either.
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There you go!
(http://[attach=1])
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That's a pic of Roo and his Lizard tongue, common result of all the inbreeding in Yorkshire ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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That's a pic of Roo and his Lizard tongue, common result of all the inbreeding in Yorkshire ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D
Almost spat my tea out!!!
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I did
![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji1787.png)
![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji1787.png)
![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji1787.png)
![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji1787.png)
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A bit more completed last night....got the clock lights working along with the dummy indicator lights and the full beam light. Ive ordered an aftermarket headlamp frame so i can drill holes in that to get the led indicators mounted - no idea how to do that yet as its different to my oem one....
On a side note mines now tax exempt and mot exempt....roo did explain a few weeks back but it was like water off a ducks back...i forgot everything he said...is there a procedure for doing this... ?
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A bit more completed last night....got the clock lights working along with the dummy indicator lights and the full beam light. Ive ordered an aftermarket headlamp frame so i can drill holes in that to get the led indicators mounted - no idea how to do that yet as its different to my oem one....
On a side note mines now tax exempt and mot exempt....roo did explain a few weeks back but it was like water off a ducks back...i forgot everything he said...is there a procedure for doing this... ?
If you have a full UK registration document & mark:-
You need the Registration Document changed to Historical Class there is a way it will always work - the DVLA website does indicate you can do it at your local post office - this can be hit & miss.
Easiest way is to firstly get the bike insured fill out the standard taxation form (V10 )I think, fill in the change of taxation class on the V5 document, download from DVLA Mot exemption form. (V112)Post it to DVLA make sure you copy everything as they often do not send back your insurance certificate.
My new V5 came back inside 3 weeks - I tried to do it without my insurance cover - new V5 was returned without change of taxation class.
.https://www.gov.uk/historic-vehicles
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Thanks Ted.
So, first and foremost ive got to insure it? (its not on the road yet) obviously so ive not bothered....
I found this online https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/925057/v112-declaration-of-exemption-from-mot.pdf is that the one? assuming it is its a bit of a weird document in that i just give the reg and sign it...as if to say "yeah its all kosher..." !
1. Insure first.
2. Change state of V5
3. Delare it tax and MOT exempt
Oh it mentions taking a current MOT....that ive not got...ill go through my paperwork but i think ive got one from about 5 years ago when it was on the verge of being sold...
Does that sound right?
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You will not need an Mot just the completed V112- on the V5C registration document, first inside page on the left section1 "change my vehicle details" in the box headed Tax Class write "Historic Vehicle" in the blue section box.
If you have changed the colour complete that section. If you have a different frame or engine number complete that section but make sure you include some sort of proof of purchase of the item.
I have done this only twice now on my bikes with no issues - the DVLA site implies you do not need Insurance except in N.I. - never worked for me on my 400 tried it two ways via Post Office & DVLA no joy until I included Insurance Certificate.
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Wow - sounds almost too easy...! (the whole bike is oem) all original bar the electrical system (as we all know!) - many thanks....so i dont have to insure it yet? - dont really want to do that until i know its almost finished....theres a little way more to go...
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Wow - sounds almost too easy...! (the whole bike is oem) all original bar the electrical system (as we all know!) - many thanks....so i dont have to insure it yet? - dont really want to do that until i know its almost finished....theres a little way more to go...
I insured my bike when it was 95% done just to get the Theft Cover in case someone stole it - I sent photos to Insurance Company to get a basic level of assured value cover.
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You will not need an Mot just the completed V112- on the V5C registration document, first inside page on the left section1 "change my vehicle details" in the box headed Tax Class write "Historic Vehicle" in the blue section box.
If you have changed the colour complete that section. If you have a different frame or engine number complete that section but make sure you include some sort of proof of purchase of the item.
I have done this only twice now on my bikes with no issues - the DVLA site implies you do not need Insurance except in N.I. - never worked for me on my 400 tried it two ways via Post Office & DVLA no joy until I included Insurance Certificate.
You'd think these days with all insurance logged online they wouldn't need it anymore, the police know when you are or aren't insured so why not the DVLA, they use the same data bases.
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Andy, measure the thread of where the front reflectors screw into the headlight bowl, I found a set with the same thread and bobbed mine in there. I’ll try to find the bill for them so you can get some should the mood take you…….
We can discuss Saturday……., what biscuits should we sample this weekend? Let me know and I’ll stop en route to sort out a purchase or are going to go for a mystery item and include cake into the mix???![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji6.png)
I’m an ace diabetic me![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji1787.png)
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They do white chocolate digestive now so you can revert to milky bar kid!
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Ooo, do they now, they sound filthy!
Where from Bryan??
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Mcvities mate, saw them in b&m i think, and tesco
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I got a box of Boarder Biscuits chambered! - bring some more of that filthy cake you brought last time!!
Ive got the V5 with me in the office today...looking at section 7 (changes to current vehicle) theres nothing about classic status in there....? there is one for "Tax Class" ? (would that be it?)
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Yes, Tax Class. Just take it to post office, no MOT or V112 or insurance needed (insurance only needed in NI) , done instantly on the spot, just remember to SORN it as soon as you get V5 back as its taxed for 12 months as part of the process and if its taxed, it must be insured, SORN it and it doesn't need to be insured (unless of course you're going to ride it on the road straight away)
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Ah - right - so thats the first stage then....so i have to wait for the V5 to come back to get the "no MOT" and "no need for tax" status...?
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Yes, Tax Class. Just take it to post office, no MOT or V112 or insurance needed, done instantly on the spot, just remember to SORN it as soon as you get V5 back as its taxed for 12 months as part of the process and if its taxed, it must be insured, SORN it and it doesn't need to be insured (unless of course you're going to ride it on the road straight away)
My post office is blinking useless and threw their hands up when I asked them to do it! (something to do with the computer ::) ) So resorted to snail mail.....
And yes, SORN straight away or you get a warning letter from the DVLA ......
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Ah - right - so thats the first stage then....so i have to wait for the V5 to come back to get the "no MOT" and "no need for tax" status...?
I'd bung 'Historic' in the tax class anyway....
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Ah - right - so thats the first stage then....so i have to wait for the V5 to come back to get the "no MOT" and "no need for tax" status...?
No, the Post Office will give you a receipt for £zero paid and it's legally MOT exempt and registeted as Historic from that moment onwards.
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Right so it gains the "it doesnt need an mot" status at that point....weve got a Toyota IQ which is tax free but every year i get a car tax renewal but theres no value on there....does it work that way for the Honda?
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Right so it gains the "it doesnt need an mot" status at that point....weve got a Toyota IQ which is tax free but every year i get a car tax renewal but theres no value on there....does it work that way for the Honda?
Yes, it needs taxing every year but at £0. Owners think it's tax exempt, it's not, it's just £0 annually for the tax.
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All done...just been down the post office. Got my receipt.....this begs more questions!.....youve all watched and seen whats been done to it....whats a fair price for the value (the insurers will ask) but these days you can get an old nail for 1500 quid of a fully restored one for 8-9k!.... the only saving grace ive got is the mileage on mine is very low... about 6200 i think...
I think all of you would be best place to give it a value...do your worst!!
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'All done...just been down the post office. Got my receipt'
There, it's that simple.
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Ah - right - so thats the first stage then....so i have to wait for the V5 to come back to get the "no MOT" and "no need for tax" status...?
I do not know if it's our local post office or poorly trained staff at the DVLA but until I sent my V5 with a V10 & Insurance the DVLA twice returned mine with a new V5 but they ignored the section where I had filled in the change of taxation to Historic - I just received a new V5 showing the old taxation class.
Before the regional LVLO's were closed Post Offices did not administer changes of taxation class it had to go to DVLA or a LVLO - my Post Office stamped the V5 & sent it to DVLA but they just ignored the changes.
Be interesting to see if it works for you at the Post Office- best of luck.
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Cheers...i did watch him write "Historic" in the box....he did scan the v5 with a barcode scanner first then said "yeah thats fine" so i guess theres a quick check first to see if it can have that status...
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Cheers...i did watch him write "Historic" in the box....he did scan the v5 with a barcode scanner first then said "yeah thats fine" so i guess theres a quick check first to see if it can have that status...
DVLA do say on their website take it to the Post Office. DVLA really don't want you to contact them these days, or send anything to them, unless you really have to. 99% of anything to do with motoring is now done either online by yourself or by the Post Office. Even with change of ownership, you now do it on line in less than a minute.
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Yeah - and to be honest im happy with that....love the fact i can do road tax online....! i hate going to post offices....but my office is smack bang in the centre of Bristol so i can walk to the central post office in 10 mins...and i can nip out mid morning when its quiet....
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This is an interesting read on changing Taxation Class - this is a partial quote "Important: Do not send the V70 form to the Post Office. You can only apply to change your vehicle's tax class with the DVLA".
The outcome appears to be dependent on what action DVLA take when they get the sack of V5's from the Post Office.
https://www.theukrules.co.uk/rules/driving/vehicle-tax/change-tax-class.html#how_to_change
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That's a different scenario Ted.
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Would anyone be able to comment on what they think the value of it would be (for insurance purposes) theyre bound to ask..!
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Would anyone be able to comment on what they think the value of it would be (for insurance purposes) theyre bound to ask..!
£50 and a packet of Jaffa cakes?
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Not sure they take that as part of the value! - however i was expecting a food based valuation coming in hot first...
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Would anyone be able to comment on what they think the value of it would be (for insurance purposes) theyre bound to ask..!
When I insured my 400 with Peter James iirc they had a threshold for values - the first threshold (was £6k) you only needed to provide some good quality photos to prove condition - for higher agreed values they wanted a professional valuation. Not sure how much a valuation would cost - others here might know.
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Well i was thinking between 4 and 6K....does that sound about right?
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I went for the £6k on the 400, my 500 is lower as it is not yet restored - be difficult to steal as I have only wheel hubs at the moment.
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Ooo, do they now, they sound filthy!
Where from Bryan??
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Roo, I'm going to report you to Diabetes Anonymous if you don't behave!! ;D ;)
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Depends on what type of customisation or restoration has been done to the bike. The nearer to stock, the greater the value. Without seeing the bike up close and personal, no one can put a true value on it. Just pick a figure and tell the insurance company, they'll argue with you if you claim, irrespective of what you think it's worth.
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Right - well pretty well oem apart from the electrics and the handlebars. That being said ive got everything oem thats come off including all the bolts. I think i might have cut off one bullet connector from the dummy light cluster but thats about it for mods to the OEM...it could be put right back to standard if need be.
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Right - well pretty well oem apart from the electrics and the handlebars. That being said ive got everything oem thats come off including all the bolts. I think i might have cut off one bullet connector from the dummy light cluster but thats about it for mods to the OEM...it could be put right back to standard if need be.
you won't be able to put it back to standard if its stolen or catches fire 😂😂😂😂
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Well, wasnt for that reason...if ever i sold it all the oem stuff comes with it...just insured it...said 6k for the value. 50 quid but it had to be ground anchored...
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I intend to store mine on the ramp, with the ramp raised in the air and with it disabled so it can't be lowered without removing locks etc, don't know how they'd stipulate a ground anchor with that setup.
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Well the endgame is that itll be used literally a few times per year in warm dry weather only so 99% of the time itll be at the back of the garage, anchored to the wall behind my RSV4. Now its almost completed i do want to give it a good clean....the engine cases were bead blasted so theyre bare....best thing to clean them with?
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I intend to store mine on the ramp, with the ramp raised in the air and with it disabled so it can't be lowered without removing locks etc, don't know how they'd stipulate a ground anchor with that setup.
Chain the bike to the ramp, if the ramp is bolted to the floor it is a massive ground anchor.
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I intend to store mine on the ramp, with the ramp raised in the air and with it disabled so it can't be lowered without removing locks etc, don't know how they'd stipulate a ground anchor with that setup.
Chain the bike to the ramp, if the ramp is bolted to the floor it is a massive ground anchor.
I was thinking of putting fold down legs on the corners of the ramp, pumping it up and then dropping the legs and lowering the ramp until it was resting on the legs, that way if the hydraulic seal goes on the ramp it doesn't suddenly drop.
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I intend to store mine on the ramp, with the ramp raised in the air and with it disabled so it can't be lowered without removing locks etc, don't know how they'd stipulate a ground anchor with that setup.
Chain the bike to the ramp, if the ramp is bolted to the floor it is a massive ground anchor.
I was thinking of putting fold down legs on the corners of the ramp, pumping it up and then dropping the legs and lowering the ramp until it was resting on the legs, that way if the hydraulic seal goes on the ramp it doesn't suddenly drop.
Is there not a safety latch / pin on the ramp?
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I use the locking pin on my ramp as per the instructions - two positions for the pin on mine. Just hide the pump pedal as you can't release the lock pin without a few pumps.👍👍
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Totally unrelated to anything = when Roo was round on the weekend i was looking at his baby pics and hes got an alloy air filter (a [something] Dragon) anyone got a link so i can throw some more money at the old girl!
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I can just imagine Roo as a baby, bet he looked like the ones of Freddie Flintoff.
Met him yesterday, damn he's ugly ;) ;) ;) ;) Like Shrek after a stroke
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When i say "Baby Pics" im talking about the bike!!
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Is this it??
http://www.steeldragonperformance.com/air_boxes_7.html
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Is this it??
http://www.steeldragonperformance.com/air_boxes_7.html
If you move away from the standard air intake you will probably need to alter the carburation parameters.
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Ah - i might be wrong but i seem to remember roo using the stock jetting (although hopefully he might put me straight on that..!
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I am really no expert here but I would expect a change in the pressure difference either side of the main slider to change the air/fuel mixture - a bit like a dirty air filter will make the engine run richer - no air filter will make it run leaner.
Only if the back pressure between a replacement air filter system is identical to the original would it run the same - others here will know how to fix any difference.
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Aye that’s it Andy. I’ve standard keys in at the min but it’s not been extensively tested yet so not proven tbh.
Shrek? Really. Folk in glass houses and all that Ken.
This is the bestest I could find to what I think Ken’s passport picture looks like……..I kid you not![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji16.png)
Description taken from the first line on Wikipedia description
Since the beginning, Uncle Fester has been a barrel-shaped, bald man with a hunch of varying severity. He has dark, sunken eyes and is often seen with a deranged smile.
Spitting image![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji1787.png)
![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji1787.png)
![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji1787.png)
![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji1787.png)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230808/7af1686efa0ea9c12b7101df9fafccd8.jpg)
![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji6.png)
![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji6.png)
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That’s actually pretty close Roo. Except Fester is my better looking relative
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Well.just to keep you all up to date Ted has helped with the digital ignition issue....the black wire is not negative but hooks into the black feed from the ignition feed back to the ignition out in the munit....I've got an led....! Luck of the gods 3 years ago or so when I bought the ignition from Dave silver there was 2....thought they were both the same so just picked one...
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To be fair Andy all I did was try to point you in the right direction with my logic - you did the actual work with the wires.👍
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Well Ted it did the trick sir! its one big group effort!
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Quick sanity check and update.....
Made some good headway. After wondering why the oil and neutral lights didnt work and doing a beep test with a multi meter thought id give motogadget jedi Roo a ring who put me straight in about 20 seconds - so, then after another hour ive now got a netural light and oil light both functioning correctly.
I bought a pattern frame which i could hack to pieces as i didnt want the stalks for indicators look so that got cut down and put on the front.
Wiring loom mostly taped up.
Tidied up the cable routing behind the front light also.
Away for the week but all thats left to do is balance the carbs.
Oh - got the v5 back which is now marked as historic - logged into tax it an its already been enabled.
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Voila.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230820/6ab6553de4a04c3be08fe6db27d38737.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230820/41b3b335e219d8a2173ed3c5cac9c404.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230820/13dfc268664d7c80cb3e9bbb0c9c1d29.jpg)
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Nice one mate, top skills and perseverance. Is there any meat in that yellow wire to take it under the central spar and away from anything bring in it or rubbing it? That’s all I can see from those shots. Top job buddy
![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji106.png)
![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji106.png)
Enjoy Welsh Wales mate![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji106.png)
![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji6.png)
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You can buy the heat resistant outer sleeves for the LT leads to the coils. It's a weird material I think I sourced mine from Kojaycat or e-bay.
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Systoflex
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Nice one mate, top skills and perseverance. Is there any meat in that yellow wire to take it under the central spar and away from anything bring in it or rubbing it? That’s all I can see from those shots. Top job buddy![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji106.png)
![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji106.png)
Enjoy Welsh Wales mate![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji106.png)
![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji6.png)
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Not sure what you mean....you'll have to explain on the phone!
Edit...cable could go underneath?
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Yeah that’s what I mean, if it is long enough(meat on it) get it underneath, looks tidier and eliminates it being rubbed or things resting in it and wearing it trough …sorry, crap typing as normal
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Looks great though mate, a great job![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji106.png)
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Ah- righty...yes....this is one of those...why didnt i do that before time's.....! ill check when i get home...
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Nice one mate, top skills and perseverance. Is there any meat in that yellow wire to take it under the central spar and away from anything bring in it or rubbing it? That’s all I can see from those shots. Top job buddy![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji106.png)
![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji106.png)
Enjoy Welsh Wales mate![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji106.png)
![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji6.png)
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The standard wiring has sections routed over the frame tube as shown in the Honda wiring routing diagrams.
There's a reasonable amount of room between the frame and the tank. 👍
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Cheers sir....i did check and theres not enough to run it underneath....doesnt matter though....
Onto the final straight.....
At this point im not sure where to start or what to do...you tube links would be good!! ( i am looking at the moment...) so where im currently at..
1. All electrics now finished...starter motor turns over...
2. Electronic ignition fitted (led light comes on) but not set up. (nto sure if i need anything special to set that up though)
3. Carbs not setup (and not sure where to start on that either) but i do have vacuum guages here.
All of the above does seem like you need a bit of experience or "the feel" for setting it up so not sure if ive got that yet! :)
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Sent you a couple of links so you can do it on your own bud. First ones ace second one is a bit simpler but still good and works well.
![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji6.png)
Sent from my death bed, I can see the vultures circling and it’s all going dark etc……….![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji16.png)
enjoy
. ![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji6.png)
![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji6.png)
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You're too ugly to die Roo.
I'm at serious risk though. ;D ;D
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Seriously, If that’s the case you’re way above me on the list mate, don’t you kid yerself bud
![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji1787.png)
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![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji6.png)
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;) ;)
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Still not got it started but have invested in some Dyna coils for the 400...(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230913/c61fe80fb1468f20eedf5e83a68e7d91.jpg)
Theres a guy down at the end of the road with an old bonneville thats hes renovated and as this was/is a points/carbs/ignition thing i went and had a chat.... he took a look and said straight away "those coils are ancient, so id change those out first..." hence the dyna coils and ive gotta say, its been 30 years since ive bought a set of dyna coils (for my old slab sided GSXR) and i didnt think they existed anymore but yey they are....they do just ooze quality...!
Coils were on my list of upgrades eventually so took it on the chin a bit bit earlier than i wanted to but hey, thats life...! the main bonus being that i dont have to faff around with the HT cables being moulded into the coil malarkey..!
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The coils in the photo look nothing like my genuine Dyna Coils is the name on the other side ?
Mine have the Impedance stamped on the other side.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50305323497_e14edf1bed_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jDiW4K)CB 400F2 coil mounts (https://flic.kr/p/2jDiW4K) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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Hey Ted. Mine say 3 ohm on the other side.....i did see those ones you have....tbh i just search for 1977 honda cb 400 and these ones came up....
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Hey Ted. Mine say 3 ohm on the other side.....i did see those ones you have....tbh i just search for 1977 honda cb 400 and these ones came up....
The packaging saying Drag Specialities just made me suspicious as you described them as Dyna ones - lots of other brands on the market that work - my 500 has some cheap ones purchased locally.
What I do like about the coils you have is the plug in leads I am no fan of the original Honda design. I would be interested to know the supplier if you have a link. Are the bolt centres the same as the original as well?
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Heres what i ordered....i searched for Dyna Coils....they do look and feel like Dyna coils....heavy in weight and the same feel (from what i remember) re the casing feel...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/275541216292
My old GSXR ones (from recollection were yellow in colour) and had the same exit angle for the HT leads....i kinda assumed that they were therefore dyna...might not be though - i must confess i didnt pay that much attention...!
Furiously googling now....yeah appears i dont have actual "Dyna" ones....return or no? what says you lot?
Found them on the net.... https://www.arhcustom.co.uk/brands/drag-specialties/drag-specialties-ignition-coils/?gclid=CjwKCAjwu4WoBhBkEiwAojNdXnmGsixawd_6TrN-hooqUKsH8TrH0shry28nMxjlCQ24k7k2vX0AUhoCnRkQAvD_BwE
Anyone got any reviews/feeback??
Edit - found a range of reviews...cant see anything bad about them- different models but they all seem to be happy with them....and i will say they do have the look, feel and the weight of Dyna's..
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Dynas do have some known faults. Normally the ohm resistance is wrong, that's been known to cause problems. The biggest drawback though is how much more power they consume than standard coils, can't remember offhand but do remember it being listed by Hondaman as excessive compared to stock. As the amount of power on the SOHC bikes is also a known issue any additional draw is best avoided if at all possible.
I'd have mounted them the other way Ted, facing forward you have wind etc pushing moisture into the opening where the leads exit, facing backward you don't. They should fit either way so why not take advantage of that.
Biggest drawback IMO is the cost, fixing the standard coils is normally miles cheaper and thanks to the Ash fix that's now easy to do. Plus then you get the correct impedance, lower current draw and better fitting. Along with electrical connectors are spot on.
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Well, - ive got a set of oem honda coils for sale (only done 6.2k) :)
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Fix them, worth more and you never know what might happen in the future.
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Are the bolt centres as per the originals if they are I would probably keep them?
The Dynas are probably not worth paying the extra for imho.
That's the same firm I bought my complete Dyna electronic ignition from. As regards current use I thought that is down to the Dyna Electronics not the coils themselves.
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Still at the office so not sure yet...! i will get back with an answer..!
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As regards current use I thought that is down to the Dyna Electronics not the coils themselves.
The issue is with the primary impedance Ted.
The standard coils are about 5 ohms, which at 12V is 2.4A or 29W when the points are closed.
3 ohm coils will draw 4A (48W) which could easily overload your alternator if you have lights on etc.
I’m writing this from memory so any errors will sin be reported by the (other) electronic engineers on here. ![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji3.png)
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You could open the points gap to wider than std in facilitating running the 3.0 Ohm coils.
Essentially the same that electronic switching does, they can then use less dwell time to reduce the draw and still make good sparks.
One way of almagamating the two different speciation elements.
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As regards current use I thought that is down to the Dyna Electronics not the coils themselves.
The issue is with the primary impedance Ted.
The standard coils are about 5 ohms, which at 12V is 2.4A or 29W when the points are closed.
3 ohm coils will draw 4A (48W) which could easily overload your alternator if you have lights on etc.
I’m writing this from memory so any errors will sin be reported by the (other) electronic engineers on here. ![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji3.png)
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No worries for me then it's unlikely I will ever ride in the dark again plus my headlamp & rear lamps are LED's.
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Offering them up it looks to be ok....(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230913/64dde219a930bb7f1803f22b1114f6a4.jpg)
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I can't tell from the photo if you measure the distance between the holes on your original coil is it the same as the distance between the outer most holes on your replacement coil.
It look wider to me Andy?
As you can see in my photo I had to cut out the coil mounts to fit on the 400, my 500 coils were 10mm too short so I just inserted a link bracket to the frame as they are mounted differently.
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It’s not just lights that draw large currents though Ted, sit at some lights with the indicator going and you’re holding the bike on the brakes so the rear light is lit etc and as the bikes ticking over almost no charge is going to the battery, all this drains even a good battery never mind a poor one. Plus these days it’s advisable to ride with lights on etc, you need to make sure your seen etc.
That’s the point I was trying to make, don’t forget there are small bulbs lit as well like neutral, repeaters, speedo/tacho etc, it all adds up
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It’s not just lights that draw large currents though Ted, sit at some lights with the indicator going and you’re holding the bike on the brakes so the rear light is lit etc and as the bikes ticking over almost no charge is going to the battery, all this drains even a good battery never mind a poor one. Plus these days it’s advisable to ride with lights on etc, you need to make sure your seen etc.
That’s the point I was trying to make, don’t forget there are small bulbs lit as well like neutral, repeaters, speedo/tacho etc, it all adds up
I have electronic flasher & LED indicators all my small bulbs are LED's as well plus I regualrly connect up my smart charger, my DTRL is also LED ;D ;D ;D
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Coils fitted..they don't sit in the castings so bolted to the top...forgot to get a photo...do that when I get home...
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Is your petrol tank in place yet as there might be clearance issues?
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Could be...not got that far yet!
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Could be...not got that far yet!
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I have sent you a couple of PM's that might be of future help.
My late father who taught me on cars when I was 15 years old said son never forget you only need three things for an engine to work.
Fuel,
Spark
and those two things happening at the right time,
He added even with poor compression it should fire & at least try to run.
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Can you not alter the coils in order to get them to fit? Are the metal poles on the new coils too wide to sit in the recess? Or are they too long?
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Just a tad too wide to sit in the recess....I'll take some pics later.
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Enough metal on there to file them down to fit I’d say
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That's what I had to do juts used a cutter/saw, file etc to widen them up - no issues with clearing the petrol tank either.
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Just about to say that....even with them as they the tank goes on fine...(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230914/e5d8582c18be96764fb225cfbb2b6a29.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230914/bc9002518c8931bbd746a1a8030f8504.jpg)
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Pretty sure that will foul the tank - worth seeing then if it catches - the top of the flat steel section needs to be almost flush with the top of the mountings iirc.
Update: Just read it clears so great! 😁
Looking at your picture you have the yellow wire for cylinders 2 & 3 on the left - thats fine if you have the HT leads accordingly I believe convention is Blue on the left for 1 & 4.
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In the garage now....yep - blue is 1&4 - not that i knew that but i had a 50 50 chance of getting that right!! - yep - tank is definately ok... gonna check for a sparking now on all of the plugs...
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Yep - the coils are working well, really good strong spark across all 4.....nice jolt up my right arm!
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Pretty sure that will foul the tank - worth seeing then if it catches - the top of the flat steel section needs to be almost flush with the top of the mountings iirc.
Update: Just read it clears so great! 😁
Looking at your picture you have the yellow wire for cylinders 2 & 3 on the left - thats fine if you have the HT leads accordingly I believe convention is Blue on the left for 1 & 4.
I've only ever seen Blue on the right, 1 & 4 Ted.
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Ive got the coils the other way round so it seems to match - i think....followed a video - really dont think ive got it right but, it did start....the header of cylinder 3 is cold - it starts and revs to about 3k and sits there until kill the ignition...so thats a little bit of a result....!
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So is it just one cold exhaust on number 3?
3 out of 4 is a good start
Have you checked number 3 plug is it wet.
Might be worth switching the leads to eliminate a poor HT connection or if you have a spare lead try it.
Or switch the leads for 2&3 see if the problem moves
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Had to come back in as I've got an early start tomorrow I've got spare HT but no plugs to go in the coils....I'll be back in tomorrow night...and the weekend.
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Had to come back in as I've got an early start tomorrow I've got spare HT but no plugs to go in the coils....I'll be back in tomorrow night...and the weekend.
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Switch the leads 2 & 3 and see if the problem moves to number 2 cylinder as long as you have not shortened the leads too much. Also worth seeing if the plug is wet on number 3, easy enough to dry it off and heat it up a tad if you have a gas ring.
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No prob ..I'll try that when I get home ..cheers sir ..thanks for all the help and advice...
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Ok - got some garage time for a bit....swapped the HT's over on the one coil....i think last night i didnt let it run about 10 seconds of popping from cylinder 3 and then it started to get hot.....
So, while it was sitting there at 3k running (from cold) i started to push things on the carbs and eiphany moment....pushing those big brass hex bolts down (theres a couple of mm of springloaded play downwards and the revs dropped down) - then it conked out as ive backed off the tickover screw....
Theres some screws directly behind that look like they can be adjusted...
Edit: tried adjusting them....all the way out or all the way in doesnt make any difference......if i adjust all the way in i loose the ability to push them down so the bike sits at 3k...
Hey - its progress i can actually get it to tickover now...albeit pushing all four brass bolts down..!
Just adding here for visibility...i did speak to Roo just now but he was in a bad signal area so sounded like Norman Collier...
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Norman Collier was far betting looking. Roo looks like they threw away the baby and raised the afterbirth
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I've sent you a PM hope it helps.
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Got it thanks sir....ill reply to that and say ive just spoken to Roo and hes coming over Sunday....ive got some coursework to do first though....he's a harsh mistress!
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Well stop blindly fiddling with things, you’re making it worse
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As for you Ken, can you stop leaving your passport photo lying about, it’s making the milk curdle in the kitchen……..(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230915/e1fb214ef5efcc171c5ff74a8439389b.jpg)
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🤣🤣🤣
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🤣🤣🤣
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Have you sorted out the carbs yet?
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Nah - stuck....did the air/screw thing - didnt change anything - carbs still go to 3/4k...itll have to wait....
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Were you not able to do the bench sync yet?
Pretty sure that will sort your idle out if pressing down on the brass caps slows it down.
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Thats the next job...ill be taking the carbs out on the weekend...ill see if i can follow what you said...gotta take the supercorsa's off the zed and put the winter tyres on now..!
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Looking out of our window you will need rain tyres not snow!
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Not so much "winter tyres" but a set of Continentals instead of supercorsa v4's! - rather use them when the hot weather is back.....
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Major update....i was chatting with a bloke on the ducati forum (as ive got one) and was telling him about my inability to do anything carb related!....anyway...he lives in Bristol as well and said he was over my end of town so came over this morning and gave me a lesson in balancing and setting up carbs....and its now done....not sure i could do it again straight away but i got the jist of how its done...so it starts....Roo came over and we talked random bollocks....couldnt find the seat for a few hours but just found it...
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Boom !(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230924/2e3f2d5a4a42b9033822f45ffb40f168.jpg)
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Very gingerly went round the block....yokes settled in so they needed tightening...along with the sump bolt which i completely forgot to do up... (now tightened) - might go out again for another "round the block run"!.
As me and Roo were chatting...the rear mudguard needs rechroming (and a few other bits) but ill tackle that once ive had a few goes on it!
I cant say enough thanks to everyone thats chipped in with help suggestions and what not (Bryan and Roo) - lads....its a corny phrase but i couldnt have done it without you...especially Bryan - it would still be in carboard boxes now!!
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Result mate, we’ll chuffed for you and what she’s turned out like
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I must confess while i was pulling apart all those years ago....i was thinking...."this aint ever gonna go back together!!"
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Nice one bud always rewarding when you get it right. ;D
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Well, as i say...the carbs - that was totally not me....but now ive been schooled next time the need setting up i think i could do it...
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You can still bathe in reflected glory though.👍
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Well, took it to work this morning. Its been a minute since i rode a carb'd bike!
1. Have to give it the beans a little bit on pull-away....!
2. Front brake is a bit spongy and weak but ill let it settle in as the pads are new - theres definately no air in there so might need a rebuild kit for the master cylinder.
3. Have to remember to use the choke!
4. Chain is rusty as, but ok so for the cost ill get a new one on order.
5. Bit of play in the throttle cable so ill adjust that out....
6. Only got the one ignition key (and original one) so ill get another one cut at lunchtime.
Stuff to do....
1. Rear mudguard is gonna get the rechroming treatment along with a coupl of other things..
2. As above - chain.
3. More of a motogadget question but when i hit the starter (and it starts) the full beam comes on and not the dip....pretty sure ive got it all wired in so could be a setting...
4. New rear shocks for nothing more than the bling.
5. Gonna change the oil after (im guessing) another half a dozen rides...im assuming after a rebuild theres gonna be some stuff swishing around...
6. Throtle cable as above...
7. One of those steel dragon air filters...for the look and....it makes it tons easier to remove the carbs if i ever need to...
Anyway - thats it for now...but more than anything else...its in one piece and it works! - hopefully itll get me home tonight! :)
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Great stuff! Another 400 on the road....
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We'll have to go for bimble sometime, well done for sticking with it and getting there.
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Yes - bimble is the word - im used to litre sized missile's - so its quite the change ill say....im a little bit scared to really open it up at the moment...engine, feels...tight..but that could be just where its been rebuilt.!
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Oil change at 500
Stick to the standard airbox, it will run better
Wiring is wrong light shouldnt come on
Rear shocks if you want good get ikons but sit down when costing them, 2nd best Hagon, chrome look goods on tinternet make good wall hangings
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The headlights probably right Andy it just depends on what you’ve told the m unit to do. There is a setting for that up to stop it doing that so you can either have no lights on or it’ll come on after start up, go to your m unit book it’ll tell you
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Didnt realise this had m unit so as Roo said you need to check settings
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Thats ok Bryan...sat at my desk in the office today - ill have a look later on [Roo] when i get home but from recollection its set to enable the main light after the bike has started...its just that it starts the full beam...unless i have to re-configure the m-button barrel shaped thingy in the handlebars...
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Got me home again! Getting the hang of it now..!(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230925/dd9a66b81090fc1429d8a10e298af727.jpg)
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Looks very tidy.
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Looks amazing, great job.
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Thanks all....thing is now....its nice small bitesize jobs...!
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Back in the garage...I can see why my Speedo isn't working....think I'm missing something that bolts to the hub and slots in the Speedo drive!?(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230925/4dde9716f4b029e82209e9776a29661e.jpg)
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That bit...manual says " gear box retainer"?
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(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230925/bde5232e5d2443eebc09d67c1d526cbb.jpg)
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Looks like yours is missing parts 8 & 9 dlis the large o ring missing as well?
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Probably! its been apart for years so really cant remember! [opening other tab to Dave Silver!]
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I’ve got the o rin Andy, saw it tonight. Might have a spare retainer, I’ll have a shuffle about and see bud. Let me know what you need
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Oh cool....i think im missing the top left bit (and the o ring of course)!
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/295587103899
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Post fiddling this evening I don't think the charging circuit is working as the munit registered 10.4v at 5pm this afternoon after it had been at work all day...something else to check tomorrow.!
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Soooooooo, the charging might actually be working.... (im not sure) as theres an munit on it im leaving it on the optimate when its not being used....the checks ive done are....
Run the engine, stick a positive wire from the meter on the battery line.... and im seeing about 12.77v at tickover...if i blip the throttle i see it start to climb to about 12.8....not the usual jump id see from a modern bike...ie 12.5v - blip the throttle then see it go to over 13v.
Again i grounded the black wire from the meter on the frame and stuck the positive in each of the yellow wires coming from the generator....im seeing about 1.6volts...is that right?
Anymore tests i can do?
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I think Bryan did a write up on how to test the charging circuit. Thought it was in Aladins Cave but can't find it. I'm sure Brian will put me right if I'm mistaken.
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Ooh - handy - ill see if i can find it...found a you tube video and ive got the 0.8 resistance between the coils so thats a good start...
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Found a copy on my laptop.
[attach=1]
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Brilliant - many thanks....ill go through.
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Not sure i can do all the test on the doc - ive got a digital meter so not sure how to set mine the same way but the youtube video i found both checks are fine.....as ive got a lithium battery and, a brand new reg/rec to match the lithium battery (wasnt cheap) - ive just started it again and as i rev it i am seeing the voltage increase not jumping masses but it is going up.....if i leave it at tickover i see about 12.74 ish - rev it to about 3k and it goes up to 12.8......if its dry tomorrow ill take it to work again and then see what the voltage is...