Post by: BenPowell on April 11, 2021, 12:13:28 PM
As promised I’ve created a post to follow the process of my first restoration project, perfect timing for the new singles and twins area 😁
Any pointers along the way would be massively appreciated.
I will try to keep this as up to date as possible and post pictures when progress is being made.
Anyway, to start with the bike had a seized engine, but looked to have been dry stored based on the condition of the chrome, the mileage is also fairly low at 8500miles.
After checking the oil it was a bit low but very clean so good signs all round.
I removed the spark plugs the other night, one was finger tight and the other was a bit stuck, and took some work to get it out, threads all seem okay though. One was a NGK and the other was a champion (I think, the ceramic part broke), maybe the bike was parked up due to no spark or something, who knows.
So next thing was to free up the engine, I used a 50/50 mix of acetone and some left over DSG transmission fluid from my car service, (apparently DSG is thinner than ATF), gave it a mix and put some in the bores.
Left it sat for 10 mins and rocked the bike back and forth in 5th gear gently and it broke free. Will still be stripping the engine in the future but good to know it can’t have been seized that badly. Hopefully the bores can be cleaned up.
One thing I have a question about is the headlight, is it legal for use in the UK with the bike being an import form the states, different beam patterns etc?
Cheers
Post by: taysidedragon on April 11, 2021, 03:56:07 PM
You could mask the beam pattern to block the right hand kick up but not sure if that's still permitted. 🤔
Post by: AshimotoK0 on April 11, 2021, 04:13:50 PM
Pretty sure I will have the parts to repair your handlebar switches if you send me some piccies. Probably in at work all day next Friday.
Post by: BenPowell on April 11, 2021, 07:36:12 PM
Cheers Ash, let me know, in no massive rush, but if you have one that would be great.
I wont be in work next week, got some time off, unfortunately it'll be spent finishing my uni work off and not on the bike. may be able to find some time for a bit of tinkering though ::)
Post by: BenPowell on May 13, 2021, 09:26:48 PM
Some progress has been made on the bike, although it has been slow.
I’ve been gathering some parts spending hours scrolling through eBay, ;D (thanks to Ash who has helped me out with some bits).
What paint has everyone used in the past for things like the battery box, tool box, rear light bracket, chain guard, etc to get an original look? Gloss, satin or matte?
Suggestions or brands and techniques used would be great.
Thanks again everyone.
Post by: Laverda Dave on May 13, 2021, 09:54:53 PM
Generally I get parts like that blasted and powder coated in gloss black. Some things like the top yoke and handlebar clamps are satin black. If you visit the powder coater with the parts prior to stripping the paint off, they should be able to provide a good match.
I use Microblast in Windsor, they advertise in Classic Bike and are very, very good.
Post by: AshimotoK0 on May 13, 2021, 10:29:24 PM
Ben was lucky enough to secure a pair of K3 side panels with the unique badges/emblems still on them (smaller than the K4 ones and extremely rare). They look a bit sun faded on the orange 'jeweley' bit though (like the orange resin on the CB500/4 and later 750 side panel badges). I suggested we try refurbing with some 2-pack ultra clear resin I got from China, tinted with orange epoxy pigment. Has anyone tried this? It may be that the the badges are just really dirty and may clean up though.
Post by: BenPowell on May 13, 2021, 11:09:55 PM
Thanks Ash, will take a look into the paint, I actually got some more images from the seller tonight, I’m sure it’s a build up dirt and dust, will ask my brother to give them a wipe when to get to him, pictures below if I’ve done it right ;D
Post by: MrDavo on May 13, 2021, 11:53:48 PM
The Stanley headlamp on my Z1A, on the other hand was handed for the US market, I’ve replaced it with a UK spec Lucas halogen for my safety but kept the original.
So it is worth checking to see which side the ‘wedge’ for dip is on, and compare it to one on a UK spec bike, or a RHD car.
I agree with Ash about powder coating, I got good results on my CL450 with a Simonize gloss black rattle can, although my Z1A frame etc had already been media blasted then professionally sprayed gloss black and looks brand new.
Post by: AshimotoK0 on May 14, 2021, 12:04:35 AM
[attachimg=1]
Post by: BenPowell on May 16, 2021, 09:25:07 PM
Had a bit of time today and started stripping out some of the parts for blasting.
I’ve got the exhausts off and I’m having a bit of trouble separating the header tubes from the silencers. The silencers are unfortunately rotten and completely beyond repair but the headers are in good condition and should clean up well. Wondering what the best way to attack it is without damaging the header tubes?
While I’m on the subject of chrome bits, what’s the best way to clean up and polish, I have used some autosol on the handle bars with good results, but always like to try new products and methods.
Thanks again everyone, picture below of the bike after tinkering today.
Post by: AshimotoK0 on May 16, 2021, 10:04:47 PM
You need to completely unscrew the exhaust clamps as they have a folded over part, which goes over a ring, which is welded to the down-pipe. From memory the bolts don't completely unscrew because the end is peened over. There is an insulating bush/sleeve between the pipe and the silencer and it can bond to the pipe/silencer with age and a bit hard to remove. I don't think the David Silver (made by Brituro) pattern silencers use the insulating sleeve though. The CB250/350K exhausts as spare parts were always sold as a complete unit and never as a separate down-pipe and silencer. The rare 1968/early '69 bikes had a 'one piece' welded together silencer and down-pipe with no model stampings . Your K3 woud have had HM317's. It's taken me nigh on 10 years to get my hands on a decent set of 'one-piece' pipes.
You are on the right lines with Solvol to clean up the chrome. Best to fetch your downpipes and other chrome to work for me to assess.
Took the liberty of rotating and cropping your pic. So nice to have young blood getting into classic Honda's :)
[attachimg=1]
Post by: BenPowell on May 16, 2021, 10:27:17 PM
I have the rear mudguard in my car so you can have a look at that tomorrow, along with some other bits, got the carbs off as well. (Something else which is stuck ::) )
Really enjoyed working on the bike so far, they are really well thought out in terms of being easy to disassemble.
Post by: K2-K6 on May 16, 2021, 10:34:37 PM
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/383374463898?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-134428-41853-0&mkcid=2&itemid=383374463898&targetid=1139674279667&device=t&mktype=pla&googleloc=9045909&poi=&campaignid=12126078234&mkgroupid=117237237815&rlsatarget=pla-1139674279667&abcId=9300480&merchantid=113482233&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIgb_g2ZLP8AIVtRoGAB2weADWEAQYBiABEgKO_fD_BwE
You'd need to try it on anything sensitive but it's really a very fine cleaner that can be useful.
Post by: Laverda Dave on May 16, 2021, 10:40:32 PM
A tip I was given by a chromer when he was unable to re-chrome the Z400J Kawasaki parts was to rub them down using fine grade wire wool soaked in plenty of WD40. Wipe clean with a rag and then use Solvol. Once that is polished off go over the parts again with wax car polish, when dry rub with a clean cloth to polish. It really does work and saved me a fortune on re-chroming parts that were salvageable 👍.
Keep posting progress reports, it's a good read🍺
Post by: Laverda Dave on May 16, 2021, 10:43:34 PM
Post by: AshimotoK0 on May 16, 2021, 10:46:47 PM
Post by: BenPowell on May 16, 2021, 11:03:40 PM
I will try the boiling water, is it worth trying to remove the diaphragms first? Probably could do to check them for damage.
Post by: K2-K6 on May 16, 2021, 11:04:49 PM
Pour boiling water down the carb slides to free them off .. they will be gummed up with old fuel that's turned to a varnish like substance. Be careful with the rubber diaphragms though .. 'kin expensive to replace !
An addition to above, using a domestic steamer (wallpaper etc) as some have a straight nozzle to clean ovens, are pretty effective on any oil fuel based gumming etc. Obviously heat capped at 100 degrees, they are safe and effective on most materials.
Post by: Menno on May 16, 2021, 11:10:54 PM
Ben and I also discovered today that 'Light Ruby Red' which looks like a solid colour is actually a white basecoat with candy red on top followed by clear coat.
(Attachment Link)
Whoever wrote this... it is incorrect.
Candy jade green for starters is bluemetallic with a candy yellow coat
Candy bacchus olive bluemetallic-orange
Or goldmetallic with bluecandy
Light ruby red is not a candy.
It is common to always paint a light layer like white or (what Honda also did) orange ground befor aplying red.
Post by: AshimotoK0 on May 17, 2021, 09:01:21 AM
Ben and I also discovered today that 'Light Ruby Red' which looks like a solid colour is actually a white basecoat with candy red on top followed by clear coat.
(Attachment Link)
Whoever wrote this... it is incorrect.
Light ruby red is not a candy.
It is common to always paint a light layer like white or (what Honda also did) orange ground befor aplying red.
It was American Honda Menno. Pretty comprehensive list and the first time I have ever seen the correct metallic dark grey ( Black metallic -XE) for the CD175A sloper ... Lave Grey Metallic (not to be confused with Audi Lave Grey ). But you are 'the man'..so I bow to your knowledge.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gxoaq47jpzf21yi/Paint%20Honda.pdf?dl=0
Post by: Spitfire on May 17, 2021, 10:09:19 AM
Cheers
Dennis
Post by: Menno on May 17, 2021, 11:49:23 AM
Very interesting read. Thanks again.
Post by: BenPowell on May 25, 2021, 10:23:44 PM
Tonight I decided to take a look inside the carbs which I removed the other day.
Based on the chrome and the rest of the bike being fairly clean I thought they wouldn't be too bad. ::)
I've attached some images below, one of them looks okay and the other is pretty bad. Funnily enough the slide came out of the worse looking one, with some help from Ash.
Still got the other to get out, its been soaking in boiling water but so far no luck. Will have to keep trying.
Re the paint and chrome, solvol gave me some really good results on the rear mudguard with 0000 grade wire wool, Had a try with some multona black paint on various parts and really happy with the finish and look.
Post by: mtrhead on May 31, 2021, 05:43:39 PM
. That inspires me to crack on and do some fettling on mine whilst I wait for Mr Silver's delivery Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
Post by: BenPowell on June 02, 2021, 06:37:11 PM
I just need to protect the underside of them now to stop them rusting from the inside out.
Pictures below before the elbow grease. :D
Post by: AshimotoK0 on June 11, 2021, 03:03:39 PM
Ben and I also discovered today that 'Light Ruby Red' which looks like a solid colour is actually a white basecoat with candy red on top followed by clear coat.
(Attachment Link)
Whoever wrote this... it is incorrect.
Candy jade green for starters is bluemetallic with a candy yellow coat
Candy bacchus olive bluemetallic-orange
Or goldmetallic with bluecandy
Light ruby red is not a candy.
It is common to always paint a light layer like white or (what Honda also did) orange ground befor aplying red.
Menno.. we studied Ben's tank closely today and sure looks like a candy coat on top of the white base, as described in the Honda Bulletin I posted.
Post by: Menno on June 11, 2021, 09:32:22 PM
But even still.... it is called light ruby red. Not light candy ruby red.
Post by: BenPowell on June 18, 2021, 12:14:29 AM
Bit of a progress update on the CB350.
Been busy the last few weeks doing bits here and there, mainly painting things black and working on the carbs.
Finally, the carbs are at a point where all I need is a new seal kit, after going through each part and removing the varnished fuel, maybe one last clean before fitting to the bike, whenever that may be.
All the electrics have been removed from the bike, a few dodgy wires which will need some attention, but hope to test the loom at some point in the near future.
The engine is finally out of the bike, and ready to start stripping down, hopefully this Saturday, I did have a quick look under the cam cover, visually it looks really clean. Pic below. But I’m really keen to see what condition the bores and rings are in.
As always if anyone has any tips or tricks to add it is really appreciated.
Thanks everyone, hopefully will be posting some more stuff on Saturday for the engine strip down.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on June 18, 2021, 01:16:12 AM
Post by: Laverda Dave on June 19, 2021, 01:11:47 PM
Put your wiring loom in the dishwasher on a 50c cycle with a dishwasher tablet. It will clean it nicely and make it a lot easier to identify poor connections as well as making it cleaner to work on, they really hold the dirt.
Make sure you use a dishwasher cleaner afterwards though unless you want plates tasting of dirt😐.
Post by: BenPowell on June 20, 2021, 10:48:41 AM
Overall the condition of the engine isn’t bad, all seemed fairly clean apart from one piston and bore which would have been the seized one.
I think it was Bryan who mentioned checking the oil filter (on the newbie post) as it’s often neglected, I was finally was able to inspect it and it didn’t look too bad, I’ll put a photo below of it.
The piston bores don’t look too bad, there is some staining on the bore which was seized and a bit of corrosion, but outside of the ‘running face’ portion of the bore, I think it would probably clean up as I can’t feel any visible pits.
Ash has a Sykes Pickavant honing tool which I could use to clean up the bores, but I don’t know what grade of stone I should be using to clean up the bores?? If anyone could point me in the right direction that would be great.
Other than that I need a new cam chain and roller, (managed to get a NOS roller on eBay) since it’s been slapping the wall and worn a grove into it.
New pistons rings one of which was broken into three parts. Full gasket and seal kit for the engine.
I think I got fairly lucky with the engine, there doesn’t seem to be any major issues. Got the long process of cleaning out and inspecting all of the parts then hopefully start the rebuild in a few weeks time.
Post by: Bryanj on June 20, 2021, 05:26:41 PM
Post by: BenPowell on June 20, 2021, 05:55:50 PM
Once they’re cleaned I was going to measure the bores to see how much life is in them, ideally want to avoid re-boring if possible. Hopeful they should have a bit with 8000 miles on the clock.
Post by: Bryanj on June 20, 2021, 07:25:35 PM
Post by: BenPowell on June 20, 2021, 10:03:59 PM
I’m sure I’ve seen a post on here about bore tolerances so I’ll do some research to be sure.
Post by: BenPowell on June 27, 2021, 05:04:04 PM
Spent a bit of time over the weekend cleaning various engine parts and getting rounded screws out.
I started cleaning out the piston bores, nothing aggressive yet, just some scotch bright and oil to clean up the corrosion. I’ve found some pitting near the top of one of the bores which means I’m probably going to need a rebore and oversize pistons and rings.
What’s everyones thoughts on aftermarket piston kits? Are they any good or worth avoiding and paying the extra for genuine?
Bryan, still going to give the flap wheel a go, but I’ve got a feeling it might not clean it up fully
Post by: Bryanj on June 27, 2021, 05:53:29 PM
Post by: BenPowell on June 27, 2021, 09:26:51 PM
https://www.cruzinimage.net/2017/08/17/68-73-honda-cb350k-0-5mm-oversize-pistons-set/
I've got a bit of time before I need to buy some so can do some more digging around to see what's out there.
Post by: 4wDaz on June 27, 2021, 09:55:10 PM
Post by: BenPowell on June 27, 2021, 10:00:31 PM
Thanks
Post by: Bryanj on June 27, 2021, 10:02:46 PM
Post by: BenPowell on June 30, 2021, 07:00:24 PM
I’ve also dug out one of the bore micrometers from work and took some readings.
I used the untouched section of the good bore as a reference, measured 64.02mm which is standard spec for the engine. The worn section of the bore was 64.04mm.
Then measured the pitted bore, the bottom measures 64.06mm and the top section 64.11mm.
The pitted bore is right at the limit stated in the manual (diameter 64.1mm and taper 0.05mm) and as there’s still some pitting remaining I’m probably going to go for a re-bore, at least that can be getting done while I work my way through the other engine parts.
Post by: AshimotoK0 on June 30, 2021, 08:29:43 PM
I’ve done some work on the cylinders tonight and had a go a cleaning up the pitted bore, I’ve got out a lot of the pitting but there is a fair bit which still remains, although it doesn’t feel too bad.
I’ve also dug out one of the bore micrometers from work and took some readings.
I used the untouched section of the good bore as a reference, measured 64.02mm which is standard spec for the engine. The worn section of the bore was 64.04mm.
Then measured the pitted bore, the bottom measures 64.06mm and the top section 64.11mm.
The pitted bore is right at the limit stated in the manual (diameter 64.1mm and taper 0.05mm) and as there’s still some pitting remaining I’m probably going to go for a re-bore, at least that can be getting done while I work my way through the other engine parts.
The tolerances in the Shop Manuals are pretty wide Ben and quite often for the the limits given... we on here would probably deem as being fooked. Trigger is your best bet for a decent rebore but he will need the pistons at the same time I think. You will probably have to go for at least +0.5 ..possibly +0.75 but I am not sure if Cruzin do +0.75.
Post by: BenPowell on June 30, 2021, 08:36:27 PM
I think by looking at it I would probably get away with 0.50, I might keep going with the cleaning up and measure it once the pitting is out to see what the size is, suppose that’ll tell me what piston size I will have to go with then, or could go with 0.75 to be sure.
Post by: AshimotoK0 on June 30, 2021, 08:57:16 PM
If you would paint a candy red over white you would have to add so many layers to cover the white that the colour would become very dark.
But even still.... it is called light ruby red. Not light candy ruby red.
Last week we stripped a nasty rust patch off Ben's tank. Definitely original paint but multi layers from the factory just like AndrewS's 750K1 tank. If it was a solid colour why wold Honda bother doing that? As per the Honda Bulletin, I am sill convinced it's Candy coat over white base coat. We are going to try a patch, as I have some Candy Ruby Red paint left over.
[attachimg=1]
Post by: AshimotoK0 on June 30, 2021, 09:10:12 PM
Yeah there’s no life left in that bore anyway.
I think by looking at it I would probably get away with 0.50, I might keep going with the cleaning up and measure it once the pitting is out to see what the size is, suppose that’ll tell me what piston size I will have to go with then, or could go with 0.75 to be sure.
Don't do that Ben ... let Trigger look at it and assess it as it is.
Post by: Bryanj on June 30, 2021, 09:58:08 PM
Post by: florence on August 03, 2021, 12:40:41 PM
If the pitting is really deep there are other pistons that fit CB350k such as Kawasaki GPZ750 (66mm). Same crown and gudgeon pin size and valve cutaways fit perfectly.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on August 03, 2021, 03:08:53 PM
Let someone familiar with the genre look at it - you can get your block courrier collected & returned by Trigger they do an excellent service.
Post by: AshimotoK0 on August 03, 2021, 10:05:50 PM
Post by: BenPowell on November 26, 2021, 10:12:44 PM
Not given much of an update for a while, in all honesty I haven’t been doing as much as I would have liked, generally life getting in the way.
Although I have finished building my shed, meaning I have some space to work on the bike through winter and I’ve started going through all the parts which have been boxed up for some time. Found some tools I forgot I even had as well ;D
Think the next step is removing the forks and wheels and start prepping the frame for paint, still not sure which route to go down with the paint, fortunately the frame looks to be generally rust free apart from the light surface rust in a few places.
I recently treated my car with Dinitrol and have some left over, don’t know if it would be worth doing the insides of the frame tubes with it to protect/seal it.
Hopefully will follow with more progress soon :D
Thanks again
Post by: BenPowell on November 30, 2021, 10:24:34 PM
If you would paint a candy red over white you would have to add so many layers to cover the white that the colour would become very dark.
But even still.... it is called light ruby red. Not light candy ruby red.
Last week we stripped a nasty rust patch off Ben's tank. Definitely original paint but multi layers from the factory just like AndrewS's 750K1 tank. If it was a solid colour why wold Honda bother doing that? As per the Honda Bulletin, I am sill convinced it's Candy coat over white base coat. We are going to try a patch, as I have some Candy Ruby Red paint left over.
(Attachment Link)
Bringing up the paint colour topic again with an update, myself and Ash finally got round to trying out the candy red on the white base on a small section of the tank.
We sanded back the red top coat to reveal the white base below, we then applied the candy red over the white.
The image shows the colour achieved by just having a quick go with the paint, it seems to match the original paint very well. The front lower portion of the tank is the original untouched paint, the stripe of red running over the top is the sample. What’s interesting is to look at the bike originally I wouldn’t have thought about it being a candy red over a white base. Based on the sample today, the multiple layers of red/white paint and the Honda bulletin, I’d be confident in saying that it is the correct way to produce the light ruby red colour.
[attachimg=1]
Post by: AshimotoK0 on December 01, 2021, 11:02:05 AM
Interestingly my mate in Beverley had his 400/4 tank painted in 'Light Ruby Red' .. a solid colour supplied by RS Bikepaints. That red finish is typical of a 'solid colour' and nothing like your tanks original paint finish appearance.
Your tank's original factory paint finish is a bit like trying to describe/photo the CB750K0 Blue/green metallic .. you only see it's beauty 'in the flesh' and photographs never do it justice.
I reckon if you use the candy ruby red, over the CB350 white as base-coat., as described in the Honda bulletin ... then your bike is going to look absolutely stunning. Given that your tank is original you can see that Honda (or their sub-contractor) had difficulty applying that paint combination as there are several failed attempts carried out on it prior to the final finish coats. Just like AndrewS's CB750K1 'Candy Ruby Red' tank.
[attach=1]
Post by: BenPowell on January 29, 2022, 12:54:36 PM
Had a rare bit of free time today and got the rest of the components off the frame, so finally I have a bare frame and parts which I can start getting ready for painting. I have a question though, when I tipped the frame upside down to remove the footrest bracket I noticed a puddle of water which came out of the head tube/steering tube. Thought it was a bit odd I’ve had the bike about a year now and it has been stored indoors since I bought it. Condensation maybe?
Has anyone else had this and would it be worth adding some drain holes near the bottom of the frame? I don’t like the thought of water being able to get trapped in there.
I was thinking about using some dinitrol cavity wax/rust converter on the frame, and I think I definitely will now.
Cheers
Post by: AshimotoK0 on January 29, 2022, 01:41:07 PM
Bring it into work on Tuesday and I can probe it in the areas that I know that they are prone to rotting out.
Yes some sort of wax protection and drain holes are not a bad idea although most classics these days rarely see rain but I know you are going to ride yours ;D
Post by: BenPowell on March 20, 2022, 10:06:41 PM
Been a few weeks since I’ve posted an update on the restoration, I got the frame and a few other parts back from painting and it gave me a bit of a needed kick to get on with the bike.
Forks have been stripped, cleaned and rebuilt with news seals and some fresh oil, actually feels like they have some damping effect now so that’s good ;D
Rear shocks were beyond repair, although from the surface they looked good, it turned out the seals were weeping and one of them had a broken plastic sleeve, anyway got a new shiny set now.
One job I really enjoyed doing was lacing up the front wheel, I’ve been putting it off because it’s something I’ve never done, but I watched some videos and had a go and it went really well. Just need to true it up at work on Tuesday, although I had a quick spin and it really isn’t back at all.
One thing I need to ask is what everyone does about buying hex bolts, nuts, washers etc, every time I look there’s always a min quantity of say 50 or 100, is there an online pick and mix type or at least one anyone has used in the past for smaller quantities?
I’ll put some pics below of the progress
Next job, getting engine parts ready for paint
Thanks
Post by: taysidedragon on March 20, 2022, 11:09:22 PM
Lots of places to buy fasteners in the sizes and quantities you want. I can recommend Stigs Stainless or Westfield Fasteners
Post by: BenPowell on May 11, 2022, 08:25:50 PM
Thought it’s about time for another update, I’ve had a productive few weeks and since been back on my 125 which I bought new when I was 17 I’m itching to get on with the CB350 project.
I know this topic has been discussed on here before but i was really having some difficulty in picking a colour to paint the engine, anyway I ended up trying about 5 maybe more different brands and methods before finally settling on one which I preferred which was the Dupli Color DE1615 and surprisingly a close second choice to that was the Halfords aluminium engine enamel. I also tried simoniz, auto tek and rust oleum but for me it didn’t look right. Some images below of the painted engine.
For anyone interested in the Dupli-Color I did two light coats followed by a third medium, painted in a warm room with 10 minutes between coats. Then once touch dry approx 1 hour I baked in the oven at 100 degrees C for 1 hour. (Not my kitchen oven though ;D)
Next topic, cam shaft & bearings. I was going through my parts checking for obvious signs of wear and my camshaft was looking a bit rough, some scoring/pitting and heavy wear on a couple of rockers, luckily I managed to find a NOS cam shaft but I need to either replace or modify the bearings since the one I have is past it. Think the bike might have been low on oil for a bit ::)
I’ve heard about the roller bearing mod but has anyone ever bored out and re fitted a brass/bronze bearing into the aluminium housing? I’ve got the equipment to do it at work but I haven’t yet looked at what the clearances should be or if that information is available.
Hopefully I should be getting the engine together soon and getting it back in the frame, which will be a big milestone.
Cheers,
Post by: florence on May 11, 2022, 09:13:55 PM
Post by: Laverda Dave on May 11, 2022, 09:15:40 PM
guy who owned the engineering shop I used to use for rebores (now defunct) was working on a cam bearing shell conversion just before he closed down. He was having trouble getting the clearance correct and staying in place and not spinning when the engine got hot. Hopefully someone will be able to advise of the clearance you need.
Post by: BenPowell on May 11, 2022, 09:29:19 PM
My CB250K had phosphor bronze bushes put in as a modification. I replaced them in 1985 with standard ones as they had worn out. I don't know how long they had been in there as they had been done by the previous owner but they looked like a good bit of work. I still have them somewhere, will try to dig them out.
If you find them some pics would be great, just to see roughly how they look, I plan on putting some miles on the bike and as I said I was lucky enough to to get a NOS cam shaft so I want to make it last.
Good progress Ben. That bearing is the worst I have ever seen! The
guy who owned the engineering shop I used to use for rebores (now defunct) was working on a cam bearing shell conversion just before he closed down. He was having trouble getting the clearance correct and staying in place and not spinning when the engine got hot. Hopefully someone will be able to advise of the clearance you need.
Yeah it’s quite rough, when I got the bike there was a screw missing from the side cover, which caused an oil leak, so guessing it’s been run low for some time, only 8000 miles on it though, on the other hand the leaking oil kept the frame from rusting.
I’ve got an idea on how to get it to stay in place, it would be a case of making the bush thick enough that when pushed into the housing I can make a drilling on the join line and insert a dowel then finish bore it to size, and for improved lubrication i can cut a spiral into the bush to get the oil flowing better, or even a couple radial grooves might help. Clearances are important to get right, I know a lot about clearances for water hydraulic bearings but not oil unfortunately
Post by: BenPowell on August 23, 2022, 08:54:35 AM
Been a while since I’ve put some progress photos up, had a fairly busy summer so far so probably not as far along as I’d like to be.
Engine is now back in the frame, got a few little bits to sort out before it’s complete, currently working my way through the wiring loom quite a long job since I’m mechanically biased, but getting there.
I’m really happy with the way the bike is looking so far.
Question: the bike is imported so will need a dating certificate and registering etc has anyone done this before the bike is fully completed and did it cause any problems, I’m keen to get it done so as soon as it’s ready I can get insured and out on the road
Thanks
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on August 23, 2022, 10:26:03 AM
Post by: Bryanj on August 23, 2022, 04:03:20 PM
Post by: BenPowell on May 30, 2023, 10:20:48 PM
It has been far too long since I’ve posted an update on here, but I have been working away when i get chance.
The bike is really coming along nicely, and although I would have liked to have it done by now I’ve still got some work to do. I’ve attached some current progress pics 😁.
In the background I have been looking at paint options and after loads of research and suppliers messing me about I have finally made a decision, which is candy red over white base as stated in the Honda bulletin in this thread a while back.
I had a go with the paint on some spray out cards over the weekend and compared it to a NOS fork ear which I bought a while back. See pic below.
I’m over the moon with the match and in the light the candy red over white gives a depth to he paint which makes it pop, shame it can’t really be picked up on camera.
All the parts have now been primed with epoxy primer and waiting to be painted in the next few weeks, just need to clear some space in the shed. 🙄
Post by: Toko_Jo on May 30, 2023, 11:40:24 PM
Post by: Johnny4428 on May 31, 2023, 07:00:42 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on May 31, 2023, 07:37:42 AM
How did you fix that in the end ?
Post by: BenPowell on May 31, 2023, 07:47:28 AM
Read your whole project post again - very interesting rebuild - my heart sank when I saw the camshaft bearing worn oval.
How did you fix that in the end ?
Yeah the camshaft bearing was really bad, considering the condition of the rest of the engine I wouldn’t have expected that, in the end I managed to get hold of a NOS cam bearing, failing that i was going to bore it out and machine a bush. I think it could be done fairly easily, unfortunately I don’t have access to a lathe anymore since I’ve moved jobs, I would like my own lathe at some point and I’ve kept the old bearing so might get chance to have a go in the future, just to see how feasible it is.
Post by: Laverda Dave on May 31, 2023, 08:15:59 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on May 31, 2023, 08:31:56 AM
Read your whole project post again - very interesting rebuild - my heart sank when I saw the camshaft bearing worn oval.
How did you fix that in the end ?
Yeah the camshaft bearing was really bad, considering the condition of the rest of the engine I wouldn’t have expected that, in the end I managed to get hold of a NOS cam bearing, failing that i was going to bore it out and machine a bush. I think it could be done fairly easily, unfortunately I don’t have access to a lathe anymore since I’ve moved jobs, I would like my own lathe at some point and I’ve kept the old bearing so might get chance to have a go in the future, just to see how feasible it is.
So is the bearing separate from the cam cover - lucky to find a NOS part.
Post by: BenPowell on May 31, 2023, 08:46:44 AM
Great work Ben. Do you think you will have the bike on the road before the end of summer as the end goal 🙂
That’s the plan, still need to do my test and get it registered though 😂
Post by: BenPowell on May 31, 2023, 08:49:29 AM
Read your whole project post again - very interesting rebuild - my heart sank when I saw the camshaft bearing worn oval.
How did you fix that in the end ?
Yeah the camshaft bearing was really bad, considering the condition of the rest of the engine I wouldn’t have expected that, in the end I managed to get hold of a NOS cam bearing, failing that i was going to bore it out and machine a bush. I think it could be done fairly easily, unfortunately I don’t have access to a lathe anymore since I’ve moved jobs, I would like my own lathe at some point and I’ve kept the old bearing so might get chance to have a go in the future, just to see how feasible it is.
So is the bearing separate from the cam cover - lucky to find a NOS part.
No, its one part, the camshaft sits directly in the housing, so I would have to over bore it, then use use some material to make a sleeve to reproduce the original bore size, would need to be suitably locked in place, but should be fine to do.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on May 31, 2023, 09:42:42 AM
Post by: Menno on June 01, 2023, 10:33:00 PM
Using a candy only works if the base coat is reflecting.
By reflecting I mean a metallic layer or a flake.
Painting a candy over a plain colour takes away the typical candy effect.
Without this effect you might as well simply use a plain colour. It is easier to paint and the effect is completely the same.
That is why a plain red like light ruby red is a plain colour and no candy. There is no benefit at all - it only makes working with the colour more difficult.
For instance; the first Kawasaki z900 with the iconic paint in green yellow or brown orange is in base a black and white tank painted over with candy yellow or orange. However the plain black and white did not reflect anything at all so the painters found that they had to add metallic and pearl to get this effect which is quite difficult to paint. Without the metallic and pearl added in the candy the painters could simply have used plain yellow and a green metallic (or orange and brown metallic)
Point is: yes you can use candy ruby red over white - but it is actually useless for the candy effect. Therefore a plain red is easier and cheaper.
But don't let me stop anyone who would try it his or her on way.
Doing stuff your own way is modern and has huge benefits someone told me.
(And guys - girls I hope you all haven't lost your sense of humor jet).
Post by: Toko_Jo on June 02, 2023, 12:38:39 AM
Post by: BenPowell on June 02, 2023, 08:58:59 AM
One for example was a modern red paint which in other forums is regarded a close match for the light ruby red, but honestly it just didn’t have the same depth of colour. To be quite honest, it looked dull and flat, as you would expect from a solid colour paint.
Honda were well into solid colours in 1971 so why experiment with candy over white base when they could just have used a close match solid colour.
It was obviously a problematic finish for Honda (or their sub contractor) because my tank was definitely original and had been painted 3 times ( posted a pic earlier).
The CB350K in Light Ruby Red never sold in the UK. All of the imports are sun faded 52 year old paint finishes , So it is difficult for anyone in the UK to appreciate the deep rich original finish.
The candy top coat I used is Max Meyer M277 (a modern Honda colour, which is normally used with its associated deep-gold M277 pearl base-coat.
I also tried seven different engine enamels in silver that Ash loaned me and decided on the Dupli-Color DE1615 stuff as it was the closest match I could find to the original factory finish. It's temperature spec will not be a problem because the head and barrels are unpainted on my model (and also the lower half of the crankcase).
Post by: Menno on June 02, 2023, 10:58:18 AM
(Attachment Link)
Well this is also not true:
Post by: Menno on June 02, 2023, 11:18:10 AM
Honda also used orange as a base. Since it is much closer to red.
Candy ruby red over orange woild make a much darker colour.
Post by: Toko_Jo on June 02, 2023, 11:23:50 AM
Honda did not only use white as a base for light ruby red.
Honda also used orange as a base. Since it is much closer to red.
Candy ruby red over orange woild make a much darker colour.
They DEFINITELY did use white base on the CB350K3 . I have seen Ben's original tank (sun faded badly). Are you saying the official Honda paint bulletin from the early 1970's (attached) is incorrect?
[attachimg=2]
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on June 02, 2023, 11:33:12 AM
I'm guessing translation from Japanese to English is a potential for errors.
Post by: Toko_Jo on June 02, 2023, 11:45:37 AM
Even Honda made errors in documentation - the clutch cable bracket on a 400 is listed as a brake part!
I'm guessing translation from Japanese to English is a potential for errors.
Just take a look at the tank pic in the previous post :D It's definitely original by the way before anyone queries it.
Post by: Oddjob on June 02, 2023, 02:10:53 PM
Post by: Toko_Jo on June 02, 2023, 05:19:41 PM
Just a comment here but any chance the 350 white referred to by Honda USA is a pearl white? that would give the reflective properties that Menno says they need without saying that Jo and Ben are wrong about the white base coat.CB250/350K0/K1 (1968->1969) white is solid white. It's a cross between Ford Frozen White and Ford Diamond White. I mixed those two 50/50 % and it was spot on compared with a NOS part.
Post by: philward on June 02, 2023, 10:47:08 PM
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Picture quality doesn't do the finish justice (sent via tapatalk)
Post by: Menno on June 03, 2023, 01:08:39 AM
What I ment to say was that with some bikes the basecoat was white and with some other basecoats were orange.
I simply wanted to say that for the final result (light ruby red) the base coat was not very important - as long as it was in the colour spectrum of the reds.
Now at no point I would say that the paint on the cb350 k3 is not original.
In my opinion it is - I am 100% agreeing on that.
It is interesting to see that after a problem the red layer the tank was returned to the beginning of the paint process and started with white again.
The reason this could have happened with this red tank this much is probably a starting painter with not much experience, or maybe a bad monday paintjob.
Another reason is that red - also pain red - is not easy to get correct in one thin layer. Probably the painter overshot causing a runner in the paint.
The thin layer would not give much room for repair, so after the runner was sanded out white would almost certain be showing again.
Easiest way to repair that was to simply start over.
Repainting a couple of times doesn't suggest this is a candy paint though.
A 70's plain red was not covering at all, that is why a base of white or orange was needed.
But even today it is quite common to use these colours as a base for red paint.
Now on the documentation - for some reasons getting colours correct in mechanical books or part books wasn't really important. Sometimes they were so insignificant to the writers of these textbooks they (or he or she) didn't even know the names of the paint.
I had a rather strange conversation on the French forum on which colours were delivered to France.
The French manual only stated the following colours for the 750: red, blue and yellow. Antares red was marron.
And thats it. Candyu blue green? - Bleu. Planet blue? - Bleu. Candy saphire blue? - Bleu.
In the Netherlands the pc50 was only available in blue and red. Everyone - and I mean everyone had a green one.
In the outtake of the manual above it is mentioned that all candys (except candy garnet brown) have a silver base coat.
Which would be very difficult for candy jade green and candy antares red for instance.
I only wanted to say that if the first point is not correct could we than imagine the third point also not to be correct?
Interestingly enough I have not seen Honda using pearl at all in the late 60-s and the 70's. I could be mistaken.
Unlike Yamaha and Kawasaki who used pearl abundantly in many paints.
Post by: BenPowell on September 12, 2023, 06:36:10 PM
Bit of an update but also in need of some advice.
Finally, the engine was fired up on the 350 and managed to get it to run for a little on the choke but that was about it. I ended up taking to carbs off and found one of the floats filled with petrol so hopefully that’s the only issue. I had checked the floats a while back and they seemed okay.
While it was running i was trying to adjust the mixture screw and it didn’t really seem to have much of an impact. So not too sure what the issue there is? Air leak maybe?
Next thing is the clutch seems to stick together, so tonight I removed the plates soaked them and re-assembled, the clutch disengages when the lever is pulled but the plates are sucking themselves together, and take a shock to release them. Is that normal or should you be able to pull the clutch and turn the back wheel by hand freely?
Other than that though the bike is pretty much compete and I’m currently waiting for my V5 to arrive in the post, I’ve also passed my test now so as soon as it’s done I can get it insured and go for a ride
Cheers everyone,
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 12, 2023, 06:45:52 PM
Might be your clutch cable is sticking.
Post by: philward on September 12, 2023, 07:46:08 PM
My clutch was dragging a bit too but not test rode it yet - have adjusted most of the drag using the screw and nut adjustment.
I think Ash may be the man to ask!
Post by: BenPowell on September 12, 2023, 09:27:48 PM
Clutch action does not sound right, clutches can stick when left unused for several months but not every time.
Might be your clutch cable is sticking.
It’s a strange one, I assumed it was because it had been stood for a long while, but I took the side cover off the engine and you can see the clutch disengaging, but the individual plates stick, it’s like how two really flat surfaces put together will grab.
It may improve once it’s had some heat through it and been bedded back in. Can only try I suppose
Post by: BenPowell on September 12, 2023, 09:30:44 PM
I'm at the carb tuning stage with my 350 Ben (next week as going away till next week) - tuning seems basic. Have a look at page 60 in the workshop manual (in Ash's dropbox)
My clutch was dragging a bit too but not test rode it yet - have adjusted most of the drag using the screw and nut adjustment.
I think Ash may be the man to ask!
Let me know how you get on with yours when you get round to it, I read the book and agree it sounds straight forward. My carbs were in a bit of a state when before I cleaned them up so could be something else, just don’t know what.
Post by: philward on September 12, 2023, 09:33:30 PM
I'm at the carb tuning stage with my 350 Ben (next week as going away till next week) - tuning seems basic. Have a look at page 60 in the workshop manual (in Ash's dropbox)
My clutch was dragging a bit too but not test rode it yet - have adjusted most of the drag using the screw and nut adjustment.
I think Ash may be the man to ask!
Let me know how you get on with yours when you get round to it, I read the book and agree it sounds straight forward. My carbs were in a bit of a state when before I cleaned them up so could be something else, just don’t know what.
Will do Ben
Post by: BenPowell on September 25, 2023, 11:28:09 PM
Clutch drag - after running the engine for a while and getting some heat into the oil seems to have solved the issue, still feels like it has a fair bit of drag when the oil is cold compared to being hot, but seems to work okay. I think it will probably improve further once it’s had some use.
Carbs - my float height was incorrect causing a really rich mixture, for the 3D carbs the float height needs to be 26mm, I initially set this at 21mm as per some manual but obviously it differs depending which carbs are fitted, I was able to get the bike idling nicely and had it moving under it’s own power for the first time, which felt like a bit of an achievement. I still think the carbs need some more work the left cylinder seems to run fine, but the right seems to pop/backfire down the exhaust when letting off the throttle, I think it is probably running a bit lean based on the spark plug colour. Will need to check for vacuum leaks.
I rechecked points and valve clearances tonight, checked the auto advance functions freely. Will probably get the carbs off Wednesday for another clean I suspect the idle passage is blocked slightly.
Will report back if popping and banging from right side eventually stops,
V5 Application - got a letter in the post today from the DVLA, turned out to be a request for a vehicle inspection, just my look. Anyway they’re coming in Friday to look at the bike, hopefully shouldn’t be much longer till I get the V5.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 26, 2023, 07:33:48 AM
Post by: philward on September 26, 2023, 08:34:33 AM
I'll report back too if any progress
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Post by: BenPowell on September 26, 2023, 09:30:02 AM
Had a go at settings on mine yesterday too Ben. Running awful really. Similar issues to yours. Balanced the carbs but slow to return to idle. Got good compression at 160 on both cylinders. Going to recheck all settings, check for inlet leaks.
I'll report back too if any progress
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Mine sometimes hangs at around 3/4K rpm. Only occasionally though, most times it returns to idle quickly, but a quick blip of the throttle returns it back to idle, sticking slide maybe?
Frustrating thing is I would have liked to work on the carbs this week but with the inspection on Friday it’s probably best to leave the bike fairly complete. I’ll have most of the weekend to work on them and try making changes, I will try to make one or two changes at a time to narrow down the issue.
I will investigate for air leaks probably Wednesday/Thursday since I can do that with the bike together. And also run it to see if the timing/valve adjustment has had any effect.
Bu yeah please keep updating, no doubt we won’t be the first or last to have these issues, on other forums posts aren’t followed up with results so become a bit difficult to pin point potential problem areas.
Post by: AshimotoK0 on September 26, 2023, 09:55:14 AM
Had a go at settings on mine yesterday too Ben. Running awful really. Similar issues to yours. Balanced the carbs but slow to return to idle. Got good compression at 160 on both cylinders. Going to recheck all settings, check for inlet leaks.
I'll report back too if any progress
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Mine sometimes hangs at around 3/4K rpm. Only occasionally though, most times it returns to idle quickly, but a quick blip of the throttle returns it back to idle, sticking slide maybe?
Frustrating thing is I would have liked to work on the carbs this week but with the inspection on Friday it’s probably best to leave the bike fairly complete. I’ll have most of the weekend to work on them and try making changes, I will try to make one or two changes at a time to narrow down the issue.
I will investigate for air leaks probably Wednesday/Thursday since I can do that with the bike together. And also run it to see if the timing/valve adjustment has had any effect.
Bu yeah please keep updating, no doubt we won’t be the first or last to have these issues, on other forums posts aren’t followed up with results so become a bit difficult to pin point potential problem areas.
Don't think they will be bothered about carbs being off Ben. More a visit to check validity of numbers on frame & engine.
Can always loan you some 350 carbs to try to identify the problem
Post by: Bryanj on September 26, 2023, 02:26:30 PM
Post by: Oddjob on September 26, 2023, 02:47:11 PM
Post by: florence on September 26, 2023, 04:57:00 PM
Post by: AshimotoK0 on September 26, 2023, 07:00:23 PM
Carb diaphragms maybe, was one on here a while ago with that problem, ds does pattern ones when in stock but aint cheap
His diaphragms are perfect Ken. 1st thing we checked when he took his carbs apart\
Post by: AshimotoK0 on September 26, 2023, 07:03:10 PM
My 350 always had problems with sticking slides, I've owned and ridden one for 40 years and they were always trouble, especially in wet weather. Sometimes they were happy and other times they were a pain. In my opinion the carbs on these are not a great design so I changed mine to slide carbs (Amal concentrics in my case), i.e. non diaphragm, and it transformed the bike. I know that is no good if you are after authenticity but in all honesty it is a vast improvement. It runs brilliantly and throttle response is instant. I would say it would depend on how much you want to ride the bike.I have a pair of 750 cabs that have been modified to fit the CB350 but never tried them. They were off a CB350K4 racer. Also the early SL350 had Keihin slide carbs.
Post by: Oddjob on September 26, 2023, 07:05:26 PM
Carb diaphragms maybe, was one on here a while ago with that problem, ds does pattern ones when in stock but aint cheap
His diaphragms are perfect Ken. 1st thing we checked when he took his carbs apart\
But for how long Ash, never liked them myself. Always seem to hole for no reason..
Post by: AshimotoK0 on September 26, 2023, 07:09:59 PM
Carb diaphragms maybe, was one on here a while ago with that problem, ds does pattern ones when in stock but aint cheap
His diaphragms are perfect Ken. 1st thing we checked when he took his carbs apart\
But for how long Ash, never liked them myself. Always seem to hole for no reason..
Yea agree that the carbs are crap on that model but when last checked diaphragms were fine ... more likely a blockage somewhere.
Post by: BenPowell on September 26, 2023, 09:36:50 PM
I do think it is a blockage somewhere, as I mentioned they were in a right state when I got them so in all honesty I’m surprised they work at all ;D
Just need to keep chipping away to find the root cause, like I mentioned I’ve checked and adjusted points and valves, going to run the bike tomorrow night to see if that’s improved anything, while it’s running I’ll check for vacuum leaks.
If the problem still persists, the carbs will be coming off for another thorough clean. Really don’t think it’s anything too major though, the bike will idle nicely at 1200rpm rev freely (no engine load) just the odd pop from one the right cylinder.
Post by: AshimotoK0 on September 26, 2023, 09:38:42 PM
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/386144812818
Ben ... did you try checking for inlet leaks with easy start sprayed onto the inlet stubs ... should have let me soften them with my magic fluid ;D
[attachimg=1]
Post by: philward on September 26, 2023, 10:04:20 PM
Just spent the night stripping and re-assembled using a slight skim of silicon sealant and hexagon bolts.
I'll report back tomorrow
As an aside, its taken me back 50 odd years taking the tank off (when I had a 250k) and that bloody awful petrol balance pipe that goes from one side of the tank to the other under the frame - you have to juggle taking the tank off while trying to stop petrol coming out of both sides - its a bludy pain! I have put 2 tiny inline taps on the pipe (and disconnect the pipe in the middle between the taps) but there is so little space, its more trouble than the standard pipe.
Coincidence that Ash posted the same thing at the same time!
Post by: BenPowell on September 26, 2023, 10:27:20 PM
I was only thinking earlier this evening if anyone has ever fitted 450 style CV carbs to a 350K and lo and behold this pops up on eBay ... a real mish-mash of an example.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/386144812818
Ben ... did you try checking for inlet leaks with easy start sprayed onto the inlet stubs ... should have let me soften them with my magic fluid ;D
(Attachment Link)
Will check for leaks tomorrow night, I hope it’s a leak, at least it’ll be fairly simple to do something with ;D
Post by: BenPowell on September 26, 2023, 10:37:59 PM
Had a day on the 350. Rechecked all the settings - points bob on but timing (using the strobe) altered slightly, fiddled with carb setting and much improved but still intermittently hanging before settling to tickover. When I was building the engine on the bench and when fitting the carb manifolds, I thought the design of using JIS cross head screws and a gasket didn't seem a good design. The last thing I checked today was for air leaks on the carb manifold to head (using the carb cleaner method) and there was a clear movement in the revs when carb cleaner squirted at the joint.
Just spent the night stripping and re-assembled using a slight skim of silicon sealant and hexagon bolts.
I'll report back tomorrow
As an aside, its taken me back 50 odd years taking the tank off (when I had a 250k) and that bloody awful petrol balance pipe that goes from one side of the tank to the other under the frame - you have to juggle taking the tank off while trying to stop petrol coming out of both sides - its a bludy pain! I have put 2 tiny inline taps on the pipe (and disconnect the pipe in the middle between the taps) but there is so little space, its more trouble than the standard pipe.
Coincidence that Ash posted the same thing at the same time!
Sounds like you’re getting to the bottom of the issue, just out of curiosity when trying to set up did you find the mixture screws made no change to the running of the engine? While mine was idling I was messing with the screws on both carbs, but didn’t seem to do much. So I just left them about 1 turn out.
To me that sounds like something in the idle circuit is blocked, additionally the idle speed screws are quite far in to maintain a steady 1200rpm idle.
The tank balance tube is a pain, I left mine a little longer just so i can prop up the bottom of the tank for access without removing it fully, ideally 2 clamps and a straight connector in the middle of the balance tube would work nicely.
Post by: philward on September 26, 2023, 11:16:07 PM
Post by: philward on September 27, 2023, 12:27:34 PM
Also got a noisy tappit on R/H to sort when engine back to cold and strangely, the R/H silencer is far louder than the L/H (both new).
Post by: florence on September 27, 2023, 12:42:56 PM
Post by: philward on September 27, 2023, 12:44:25 PM
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Post by: BenPowell on September 27, 2023, 07:25:34 PM
Started up after actions taken in previous post - revs returning to idle better but still little response to slow running screw adjustment on R/H cylinder (and now no leak on intake manifolds) with misfire (pop) when slow speed screw backed out more than 1/2 turn. Should have checked that curcuit while I had the carbs off! I'll take the carbs off again and check the low speed curcuit for blockages - I'll feed any progress back Ben.
Also got a noisy tappit on R/H to sort when engine back to cold and strangely, the R/H silencer is far louder than the L/H (both new).
Thanks for the updates Phil, after adjusting the timing the other night and re-checking the valve clearances I can say it has made no difference to the popping except I now have a noisy valve which wasn’t before (shouldn’t have messed with them) pretty sure it’s just the one.
Checked for air leaks by spraying around the carb boots while running and that also made no difference to the RPM so it’s got to be something not right in the carbs, again mixture screws did nothing,
With regards to more noise from one silencer, to me that sounds like one cylinder is doing more work than the other, one of mine felt like it had a lower pressure from the exhaust so I increased the idle screw on that side and it brought it back inline.
I briefly unplugged the HT leads on each cylinder the one which was quieter cut the engine almost straight away, when i took the other off it continued to run for a bit.
Post by: philward on September 27, 2023, 11:37:18 PM
So maybe your lack of adjustment on your air screw is a blocked slow running jet?
Post by: philward on September 27, 2023, 11:56:45 PM
Is it worth running without air filters attached for a test just so you can see if slides are popping back down in good time and together when throttle is released?Checked prior to carb strip and all good - thanks
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Post by: BenPowell on September 29, 2023, 10:13:17 PM
Got them back on the bike with mixture screws 1 full turn out from loosely nipped up, and idle speed screws 3/4 turn from touch and the bike fired up straight away with no more popping from the right cylinder, in addition to this the idle mixture screws have a definite impact on the engine now, safe to say that was the issue there.
Before I removed the carbs I ran the bike with no air filters and could see the slides moving freely, and while off i checked the diaphragms and couldn’t see any holes, I also checked the slides and they are completely free, so I think the hanging rpm must have been caused by a lean running condition on one cylinder.
Tomorrow I’m going to spend some time getting the carbs set up, or as best I can without riding it.
Had the DVLA inspection this morning, guy was here 10 mins and took plenty of photos of the bike, hopefully I’m not waiting much longer for the V5, I just want to get out for a ride now ;D
Post by: philward on September 29, 2023, 10:38:30 PM
Hopefully I'll have your success!
Post by: BenPowell on September 29, 2023, 11:03:31 PM
Sounds like we are having identical issues Ben! My slow running jet just wont clear. It's been soaking in carb cleaner for 2 days. I've ordered a .35mm drill. As a back up, I've ordered some pattern jets (as genuine not available) as a back up. Also ordered some pattern floats.
Hopefully I'll have your success!
The radial holes on mine were all clear, but down the bore it actually goes to a smaller diameter and it was blocked there, I bought some 3D printer nozzle cleaners, turned out to be really useful for the carb, get a load in a pack for about 3 quid.
Link: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B09L86LJ81?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
Was really quite tough to break through the blockage, and just for a final check I poured a small amount of petrol through to make sure the passages through the carb body were clear.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 29, 2023, 11:13:30 PM
Post by: K2-K6 on September 29, 2023, 11:13:57 PM
It brought tthat cylinder into play as it hadn't seemed to be running at low rpm before.
Really stubborn deposit inside there though, believe they'd already been cleaned ultrasonic method prior to this.
Post by: philward on October 05, 2023, 02:01:13 PM
Post by: BenPowell on October 11, 2023, 07:39:59 PM
More updates on the bike,
My V5 arrived last week only a few days after the inspection which was a nice surprise. So it’s now insured and ready for the road.
I took the bike out on Saturday for its first ride out, got a few miles down the road and started getting issues with misfiring and bogging down, which got worse the further I went.
I few things I have found is the charging system was a bit weak, but I’m getting good power from the stator, I’ve replaced the rectifier for a modern one which improved it slightly, but the thing that made the most difference was permanently wiring in the ‘night time coil, by connecting the wires in the headlight bucket, yellow wire into the white with yellow stripe. Thanks to Ash for that suggestion.
I now get a steady 13V at idle which is good.
But the bike was still running rough and misfiring on one cylinder (left side) so tonight I removed the point cover and ran the bike and the left side point contact is sparking continuously while the righ side had no sparking at all, so I think it’s time for a new condenser. Fingers crossed that sorts out the last of the running problems,
I checked the point the other day for sparking and could see nothing, got in the shed tonight where it’s darker and it was obvious straight away.
Post by: Trigger on October 12, 2023, 07:07:39 AM
Hi everyone,
More updates on the bike,
My V5 arrived last week only a few days after the inspection which was a nice surprise. So it’s now insured and ready for the road.
I took the bike out on Saturday for its first ride out, got a few miles down the road and started getting issues with misfiring and bogging down, which got worse the further I went.
I few things I have found is the charging system was a bit weak, but I’m getting good power from the stator, I’ve replaced the rectifier for a modern one which improved it slightly, but the thing that made the most difference was permanently wiring in the ‘night time coil, by connecting the wires in the headlight bucket, yellow wire into the white with yellow stripe. Thanks to Ash for that suggestion.
I now get a steady 13V at idle which is good.
But the bike was still running rough and misfiring on one cylinder (left side) so tonight I removed the point cover and ran the bike and the left side point contact is sparking continuously while the righ side had no sparking at all, so I think it’s time for a new condenser. Fingers crossed that sorts out the last of the running problems,
I checked the point the other day for sparking and could see nothing, got in the shed tonight where it’s darker and it was obvious straight away.
Had the same problem with my 750K6 at the weekend Ben. Misfiring and bogging down and it was a condenser. It is the first time i have had a condenser go down on me so, i was stumped what the problem was at first. The K6 is 46000 miles plus and it still has the same old points and condensers from when it left the factory.
The bike would run and rev up to on the bench but, out on the road under load it would bog straight away. ;)
Post by: AshimotoK0 on October 12, 2023, 07:19:52 AM
The Honda Service testers always had a function to do this but I suspect it was used more for shocking the apprentices by throwing them a charged up condenser to catch, than use on customers bikes. ;D
I will test your condensers when we meet up again Ben. Beware Daiichi ones not made in Japan, there are some nasty, rubbish Chinese copies on the market.
Post by: Trigger on October 12, 2023, 07:37:52 AM
Post by: K2-K6 on October 12, 2023, 08:31:58 AM
Post by: AshimotoK0 on October 12, 2023, 12:06:04 PM
On a condenser Ash, is it earthed out on the mounting point or can it be tested on the bike with out being screwed to the points plate ?
You should be OK with it screwed to points plate but with the other terminal disconnected.