Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB350/400 => Topic started by: billdn on February 25, 2023, 01:04:25 PM
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I'm considering going to electronic ignition on my 400. I'm tempted by the Boyer with the micro coils option- has anyone tried this? Not cheap but looks straightforward install albeit junking old coils.
From other posts on here I gather the Piranha system isn't always successful.
Does anyone have any recommendations or don't buy that comments on any other systems?
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I have had Boyer for ages,
Easy to fit,
Very happy with it
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My BiL is a big fan of the Dynatec system - he has fitted them to virtually every bike he has restored so on his advice as both my coils were shot that's what I have fitted to my 400 - it retains the original mechanical advance/retard not cheap at around £350 including both coils - with push in type HT connections so leads can be easily replaced. There are two different size rotors on the 400 I believe - mine was the smaller one iirc.
As my bike has only covered 150 miles I am in no position to advise if it was a good buy - it does start instantly though and is easy to fit.
On my 500 I was thinking of something cheaper as I have new coils - the Hondaman system sounds very good from what I have read here.
Can't say too much here at the moment but Bryan might have a system in the pipeline for me.
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My BiL is a big fan of the Dynatec system - he has fitted them to virtually every bike he has restored so on his advice as both my coils were shot that's what I have fitted to my 400 - it retains the original mechanical advance/retard not cheap at around £350 including both coils - with push in type HT connections so leads can be easily replaced. There are two different size rotors on the 400 I believe - mine was the smaller one iirc.
As my bike has only covered 150 miles I am in no position to advise if it was a good buy - it does start instantly though and is easy to fit.
On my 500 I was thinking of something cheaper as I have new coils - the Hondaman system sounds very good from what I have read here.
Can't say too much here at the moment but Bryan might have a system in the pipeline for me.
Holy moly Ted ! I thought the Boyer was dear😲! Thanks for the reply though.
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The Boyer is really good and does everything including advance etc.
They are set up using reference point, then finally checked with strobe at max advance to complete accurate ignition.
Many years (been making them more or less as long as these bikes) experience says they are reliable too.
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My BiL is a big fan of the Dynatec system - he has fitted them to virtually every bike he has restored so on his advice as both my coils were shot that's what I have fitted to my 400 - it retains the original mechanical advance/retard not cheap at around £350 including both coils - with push in type HT connections so leads can be easily replaced. There are two different size rotors on the 400 I believe - mine was the smaller one iirc.
As my bike has only covered 150 miles I am in no position to advise if it was a good buy - it does start instantly though and is easy to fit.
On my 500 I was thinking of something cheaper as I have new coils - the Hondaman system sounds very good from what I have read here.
Can't say too much here at the moment but Bryan might have a system in the pipeline for me.
Holy moly Ted ! I thought the Boyer was dear😲! Thanks for the reply though.
The Dyna S kit did come with everything including HT leads with plug caps as well as the two matching coils they look even pricier now. Would I buy the same kit again no it was my first project so I threw money at it during lock down. My leads were not orange - I have no idea what ohm rating mine are without checking the instructions.
.https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/292400694260?hash=item44147083f4:g:DuMAAOSwSwVaU8Xx&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAwLb0m12SVCcU7ARh74euy3oL%2Fp%2FtUQd3%2BY8Y8hRsmdoFv0n7GI4hA5%2B9J6K5gp407WD7HYLagocQucPkpm8w8jJP01DbDc%2BoTinwys%2F3cjrknQC%2FHZiVmEQI%2BQkg68DwRZQaHbZjEJcX95Jvpg31%2FBiuwwTtMzXSE2eWvkev8e7skCmo5xaoQmxWINh7kE254NARHDWPZVVWC%2F%2BAyvW%2F%2Bv5lA8MMNqapOCMqd%2F0SwLuKFo0BDWVg4O1VqtI3nis1QQ%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR76SvJTRYQ
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I wouldn't recommend the DynaS system, far too much current draw for what it is.
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I wouldn't recommend the DynaS system, far too much current draw for what it is.
True, that could explain why they spark so well.😁😁😁
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I’m not going to pretend for a moment that I have endless knowledge on this subject, but I have the Dyna s ignition system with the original coils and runs well! (So far)! it’s what came with the bike when I bought it.
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If it ain’t broke….
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Thought there's two type of Dyna (as with Boyer originally) to make use of std or lowered primary resistance coils. That should mainly be dwell time difference in trigger system to accommodate each specification.
Really though, most of them work pretty well on these engine.
Their task is made easier though by Honda's original design taking care of most variables claimed (usually based on car systems) that electronic "fixes" for the owner.
The Honda original is almost peerless in design and lacks for nothing if built and set correctly. There's little room to improve anyway, that's from a basic design concept.
Replacement system of course do deal effectively with component availability and skill in setting them up, but they will perform the same essentially as an original type when fitted mostly.
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Personally when I purchased and fitted the DS electronic ignition to the 550 it seemed to simplify the system in that it was a lot easier to set and forget than the points/condenser system. The old system did fine for 30 odd years but when I gave the bike a full restoration I wanted to eliminate as much as possible any possible “gremlins” . Weather better in the long run? Who could say! But worked for me, probably old system would work just as well.😜
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I have the Boyer system (Inc power coils) on my CR750 Rep - good but you will have to make up a bracket to accommodate the coils. They perform well but haven't put much mileage on them - but had them for 30000 on my Z1 back in ty 70's and was trouble free.
I have Hondamans system on both my 500k2 and 750k2 - good value and cheap. Mark (Hondaman on the US forum) usually puts them down as return of repaired parts so no import duty (he did for me anyway)
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When my electronic ignition of unknown age went up in smoke a few years ago I simply took the one offered by David Silver Spares. It hasn't missed a beat. If you choose to do likewise note that it is compitable only with the TEC branded Automatic Timing Unit (ATU) and not the (rarer?) Nippon Denso type.
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DS now cover both Nippon Denso & Tec for the 400 they are listed separalely on the 500 you specify on ordering which make advancer you have.
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So went for the Boyer with micro coils. Making brackets to mount coils . Bit miffed though as connectors on Boyer are those God awful compression bullets and 4mm to boot so won't fit my loom, without cutting one connector or the other off and replacing. Loathe to cut one's of Boyer as would no doubt invalidate warranty. Did email them to let them know but no reply as yet. Thanks all.
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How about fitting a short piece of wiring using appropriate ends fitted to make an adapter provided you can hide the surplus?
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How about fitting a short piece of wiring using appropriate ends fitted to make an adapter provided you can hide the surplus?
You read my mind Ted 👍
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So went for the Boyer with micro coils. Making brackets to mount coils . Bit miffed though as connectors on Boyer are those God awful compression bullets and 4mm to boot so won't fit my loom, without cutting one connector or the other off and replacing. Loathe to cut one's of Boyer as would no doubt invalidate warranty. Did email them to let them know but no reply as yet. Thanks all.
Forgot to mention that - I changed the connections to standard type - ie, like these
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/152873651204
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I emailed Boyer to ask them if changing connections would nullify their guarantee and they're technical department replied saying that they expect some customers to change them and it wouldn't invalidate any warranty.
But still think I'll go with Ted's suggestion.
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On my 500 I was thinking of something cheaper as I have new coils - the Hondaman system sounds very good from what I have read here.
Can't say too much here at the moment but Bryan might have a system in the pipeline for me.
I have the Hondaman set up on my 750K2; it has faultlessly covered 30,000Km and on one set of points!
It is easy to fit and has the advantage that if it stops working, you can simply disconnect it, reconnect the points and off you go. (Has never happened)
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I have the Boyer system (Inc power coils) on my CR750 Rep - good but you will have to make up a bracket to accommodate the coils. They perform well but haven't put much mileage on them - but had them for 30000 on my Z1 back in ty 70's and was trouble free.
I have Hondamans system on both my 500k2 and 750k2 - good value and cheap. Mark (Hondaman on the US forum) usually puts them down as return of repaired parts so no import duty (he did for me anyway)
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Phil, did you notice a drop in charging voltage to battery with the micro coils. As a check I thought I'd chuck voltmeter across the battery , can't get more than 13.5v at 5000rpm , whereas manual quotes 15v at 5000rpm. Not much difference with lights on btw. It is a new battery. I also have a combined regulator/rectifier unit from Wemoto, which worked fine before. Maybe just needs a good run ! I'll do the usual checks on alternator etc in due course.
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What are micro-coils are they like modern car coil packs?
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No idea Ted, came with the kit but do carry spark to ht leads then the plugs. All plugs spark but only 1 fires , or something like that.
Went for these as an ht lead on old coils was decidedly dodger and about to fall off.
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If the coils are essentially double sparking then that's an additional draw on what is a very limited wattage charging system, around 150w IIRC. A Dyna system uses around 1amp more than stock coils for example and that only sparks half the time as per the normal Honda system, if it sparks double then potentially that's another 1amp loss.
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So are the HT leads built into the micro-coils or do they plug in as separate items?
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You assemble the ht leads from kit supplied to your own 5k ohms resistor plugs and fit them to micro coils at the other end. Coil 1 has cylinder 1 and 4 and coil 2 has cylinder 2 and 3 much as regular coils. Just the circuitry is different. Cheers Ted
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Yes Bill, I get about 13.5v ish (I have a voltmeter as part of the digital speedo) but have the electrex world race alternator and lithium battery so put it down to that. But what Ken says makes sense.