Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => Project Board => Topic started by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 10, 2022, 10:22:03 PM
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Firstly thanks to Bryan(j) for parting with his long owned yet unrestored 500 plus a huge thank you to (Laverda)Roo for his part in delivering the bike to me here In Derby today.
On the plus side it runs. I'm sure Bryan would agree it needs some restoration / tlc.
I know there are several ongoing 500/550 builds but I feel the need to add my journey to the list. I will post a before photo shortly.
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I could not wait until morning so tonight I fired her up - she sounded so much better than my 400 did on first time start up - somehow I could feel the extra power when I blipped the throttle.
So many decisions to make - I'm minded to sort out some insurance cover & ride it to decide if the engine need to be taken apart as part of the restoration.
Lots of pimply chrome etc as you would expect for a 50 year old bike - I love the rear grab rail arrangement.
Lots of work to do - lots of time to spend sorting her out - I'm going to be a little more sensible about costs on this build but those signature gold alloy rims are already pecking at me to be fitted.lol
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52348612433_1901f8c422_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nKSjFk)Ted's CB500 project bike (https://flic.kr/p/2nKSjFk) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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It's a good start.
I have noticed though that it looks like the D washer is missing from the N/S top yoke pinch bolt, they might both be missing. You need these in to stop the top yoke breaking when the bolt is tightened.
Looks to be a US K1, the left hand switchgear isn't correct for that model, looks to be off a 550F.
Top hat missing from headlight screws, Graham does some nice stainless ones Ted.
Shame the tanks dented, looks nice.
Not being critical or picking holes in it Ted, just pointing out some small things you would be advised to fix. You can keep the left hand switchgear though if it works, does it have the headlight flasher?
Let me know if I can help with anything.
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Nice project Ted! Good luck, we look forward to updates. (Check clock mounting bracket, bent or loose) maybe just the angle but look as if they are sitting flatter than the norm.
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You probably want to check the bottom yoke and lock stops; it looks as though the headlamp ears have clouded the tank?
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Looking good Ted and I'll be following with interest so I can pinch a few tips for my own :)
Simon
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Tis a UK one but got a US rear mudguard as i had more decent ones of those and grab rail as i couldnt find the handle or uk indicator mounts at the time.
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Nice one Ted. Loads more tricks to learn.
Did you fetch it yourself, courier or what?
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Is it a USA model? The clocks look like the ‘small type’ flatter presentation with odometer adjustment on the side rather than underneath. My comparison is based on a 1973K2, which may not be relevant. Dunno. Bit it looks to be substantially all there more or less. Definitely a good start.
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The clocks are correct for the K0 and 1, the K2 was a US model with bigger clocks and the trip knob downwards. The US K1 had a bracket that angled the clocks more towards the rider and full chrome backs instead of the open ones.
I explained to Ted that this was not a restored bike and was built for a specific reasom with the most useable bits i had acess to at the time and we were both happy with the bike and price.
Roo was very kind in transporting it as i no longer have a vehicle with towbar and even when his initial reason for going that way fell through still transported the bike for Ted.
I am more than happy to give reasons for anything seen and me and Ted have agreements that we wont discuss here.
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I should think Ted is well satisfied with that. An honest, unpretentious example ripe for strategic attention. Wish I’d bought a more substantially complete 550- Finding some parts was a real headache.
I was responding to the earlier suggestion it was a US model….not that it really matters IMHO- they are all Japanese exports.
Good luck Ted. You have got to take the motor apart….it’s mandatory 😀
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Looks great Ted, looking forward to seeing this progress. Split that engine, you know you want to. :)
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Great lttle bike, really honest and Ted was super chuffed with it. Also, for somebody buying one of these old bikes, he fired it last night and it ran on all four!!!
Ive only ever bought two bikes that have run on four when I bought them. And one of those was a Ducati ;D
Great to meet Ted and Wendy yesterday, I had a fantastic couple of coffes there and a good giggle.I know who wears the trousers ;D ;D ;D (sorry Ted)
What great folk, brilliant to meet them both. I'd have bought that had I the dosh and a shed not full of machinery in bits ;D I know Ted will love working on that this winter its a lovely little bike that.
Cant believe that Bryan threw the cobwebs and arachnids in FOC, he's obviously mellowing in his old age ;) :D
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It's a good start.
I have noticed though that it looks like the D washer is missing from the N/S top yoke pinch bolt, they might both be missing. You need these in to stop the top yoke breaking when the bolt is tightened.
Looks to be a US K1, the left hand switchgear isn't correct for that model, looks to be off a 550F.
Top hat missing from headlight screws, Graham does some nice stainless ones Ted.
Shame the tanks dented, looks nice.
Not being critical or picking holes in it Ted, just pointing out some small things you would be advised to fix. You can keep the left hand switchgear though if it works, does it have the headlight flasher?
Let me know if I can help with anything.
Thanks for your observations Ken you are correct neither D washer is in place - wow aren't they pricey at £8.88each at DS.
No pass switch fitted but everything works - well I can hear the horn click once but not sound.lol
No top hats on headlamps.
The tank needs painting as it has some scratch marks on the top & elsewhere.
A promising start I also cant see a fuse box just one added in line blade fuse ??
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A promising start I also cant see a fuse box just one added in line blade fuse ??
Mine only has one inline fuse I think ....
Simon
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Tis a UK one but got a US rear mudguard as i had more decent ones of those and grab rail as i couldnt find the handle or uk indicator mounts at the time.
Fooled me with that one Bryan. The grabrail threw me as I knew the UK didn't get one. Looks to be off a 550 as well as they are higher at the back than the 500 grabrails.
500 only ever had a single inline fuse Ted, it was a big mistake by Honda IMO, if it blows EVERYTHING dies, engine included. If you can't find what's causing the blow you're stranded. The 550 has much better electrics which was why I fitted a 550 loom to my 500.
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Fuses?……….. hell, where do they go(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220911/e07aa656faccd90110bc7eae5e3ef72d.jpg)
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I hope your remembered those red orings on the bottom of the liners before you put the barrels on Roo.
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Thats why they're there Ken, The barrels havent been touched yet, I do it all in bits.
Rings checked in bores
Rings on (hate that bit, what a faff with sausage fingers)
Pots on rods
Clips in
have a good waggle and a fiddle..
(then get back to the bike build in the shed :D)
Barrels on bench
rubbers on
oil control valves in
o rings on
Gasket on and check
Barrels on and a delve into the Anglo Saxon vocab book ;D
Just got out here now............onwards 8)
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(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220911/f21b36a773f4e35b8316244cf46cb088.jpg)
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Fuses?……….. hell, where do they go(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220911/e07aa656faccd90110bc7eae5e3ef72d.jpg)
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I thought that engine was going to Birmingham way yesterday or is it an old photo?
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You must be super chuffed Ted. Great starting point for a bike that you can build to your spec. We shouldn't get hung up on everything being as it came out of the factory and should build a bike that you are happy with. My 750 and 500 look standard to the average model admirer but could be pulled apart by model experts (UK handlebars/indicators on US 500K2) plus stainless bolts throughout. But it's what I want!
Big advantage is you know it's background and it comes from an expert - a luxury most of us never have when buying a 50 year old bike. Good luck and enjoy the build.
They are great bikes!
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Although the 500 is a runner I need to find out if it's a rider.
I'm going to take the back wheel out as it's binding I suspect due to some rusting in the hub area. The throttle movement is quite stiff even though the carbs have been refurbished - not sure if it's the twist grip or the cables so I need to fix that plus reduce the front brake lever travel before I ride her on the road.
This is plan A before the strip down starts.
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Best of all its the right colour :) :) :) :) :)
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Front brake lever travel is about right Ted, dont forget its new caliper, piston and seal. Hoses are used but not cracked and its new fluid.
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Fuses?……….. hell, where do they go(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220911/e07aa656faccd90110bc7eae5e3ef72d.jpg)
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I thought that engine was going to Birmingham way yesterday or is it an old photo?
Fuses?……….. hell, where do they go(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220911/e07aa656faccd90110bc7eae5e3ef72d.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I thought that engine was going to Birmingham way yesterday or is it an old photo?
No I wanted to see if Bryan could check it for me that's why it was aboard Ted. I bobbed into Brmingham to see a mate and drop her a few bits in for her bikes she has.
That piccy was this morning before I started faffing about.
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Front brake lever travel is about right Ted, dont forget its new caliper, piston and seal. Hoses are used but not cracked and its new fluid.
It's more of a mechanical issue with the brake lever. There is about an inch of movement at the end of the lever before it starts to actuate the master cylinder - It does not feel like pivot pin wear just a load of movement that does nothing?
Once the lever meets the master cylinder the brake feel is as it should be. I did wonder if it's the right lever.
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It was a pattern lever but there is only one type for the sohc, Goldwings have a different one.
The play was a common complaint back in the day, never really found a cure, i have heard of the yanks aralditing a dime on the end of the master piston
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Ted, I test hydraulic systems all the same to assess integrity ( this not to judge Bryan's competence) by squeezing the lever with both hands until you eyes bulge, or the lever touches the end of travel, multiple times.
In essence a proper "Gorilla" stress test that will find any failure to survive in safety. Ordinarily that's way above any in use pressure that it'll be subjected to and give confidence that the seals etc are working.
On the free travel though, something that I've never like and as Bryan indicated, some system seem to inherently have mechanical geometry that gives too much travel. Maybe someone else can help with example fro another 500 that agrees or dispels with this example. I've always used genuine Honda levers as not keen on material specs for many non oem types.
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Restoration project hey, already looks pretty fantastic and much better than my daily rider ;D
Very nice bike, good luck with project.
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I've had the back wheel out and sorted out the hub binding - a very small dent in the hub flange edge area was the culprit. Cut most of the alloy out with a Stanley Knife then a bit of polishing with a cutting wheel - cleaned brake shoe contact area plus roughed up the shoes a tad.
Next sort out the stiff throttle - just drained the tank prior to removal to get at the open & closing cables - seat removed to make it easier to access all areas.
Definitely need to look inside the engine for peace of mind.
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Sounds like you have found yourself a good project Ted.
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On the subject of brake lever travel, I (and a good few other riders that I know from our evening bike meets) have found that replacing the original Honda master cylinder (smooth reservoir) with a pattern type (fluted reservoir) reduces lever travel immediately, for reasons that I am unsure of, but assume that perhaps the piston sizes differ slightly?
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On the subject of brake lever travel, I (and a good few other riders that I know from our evening bike meets) have found that replacing the original Honda master cylinder (smooth reservoir) with a pattern type (fluted reservoir) reduces lever travel immediately, for reasons that I am unsure of, but assume that perhaps the piston sizes differ slightly?
I have a DS replica on my 400 - there is virtually zero movement.
I'll try a spare original lever see how that is if it fits.
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Sounds like you have found yourself a good project Ted.
My dirty engrained fingerprints will confirm that - I have plan A to complete - then ride it ASAP before winter sets in - see how the gearbox feels then I can see it being a pile of parts before Christmas!
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Horay, balance will be returned to the Ted household ;) :D
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Horay, balance will be returned to the Ted household ;) :D
Except my phone does not recognise my finger print.😁
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Fingerprint? How can you have those if youve been working on bikes for years
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I did once try to fingerprint a glass cutter - hardly a single loop or whirl was printed on the form.
My submitted prints were rejected twice before anyone read the note I submitted on the form.
The glass dust wears them away - still now there is the DNA option.
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Most of the heavy throttle action was down to cable routing so that's one less item for now - needs a new throttle tube and grip for the rebuild but works well enough for now.
Nice chrome stopper in the handlebar end. - not sure if that's original.
Started first clean of the spare crank cases that Bryan has provided / lent me - boy was there some oil crud on the case halves. As I'm giving it some stiff brushing with petrol in a plastic box that the cases arrived in I realise petrol is leaking every where - the box has a split in the base!
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Knew i should have got better cables when i built it!
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Ted, I may just have a spare throttle tube kicking about. Don’t buy before checking with me.
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Ted, I may just have a spare throttle tube kicking about. Don’t buy before checking with me.
Thanks Philip,
I've not bought a replacement yet - can't believe the cost of the grips mine are not in great condition & will not come off the tube in one piece. Cheers Ted
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Beware of non oem grips. Check the length before buying.
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On the subject of brake lever travel, I (and a good few other riders that I know from our evening bike meets) have found that replacing the original Honda master cylinder (smooth reservoir) with a pattern type (fluted reservoir) reduces lever travel immediately, for reasons that I am unsure of, but assume that perhaps the piston sizes differ slightly?
My 400 has the fluted type that I bought from DS they list the same part for the 500. Clearly the lever on the DS part is right up against the piston when the lever is at rest with no floppy movement. The 500 piston is more rcessed plus the lever flops back as well. For a trial ride the brakes are solid enough but for the rebuild I will go for the DS one methinks.
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Beware of non oem grips. Check the length before buying.
So far I've priced up via DS for some bits they are in my view not always the cheapest but they usually fit.
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Mine didn’t…too short by 10mm. Not a problem in my opinion, but some folk are really obsessive about such things.
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Mine didn’t…too short by 10mm. Not a problem in my opinion, but some folk are really obsessive about such things.
I'm not obsesive. repeat after me, I'm not obsesive, I'm not obsesive, sorry OCD tripping in - just need to check I locked the front door won't be a tick.
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Good news though. He only stocks genuine now it seems. So probably worth the expense.
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😀😀😀
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Ted, for the throttle pipe I'd recommend buying one off a CB1300, 2003-2010. The ears where the cables connect is bigger so you get more pull for the same action, I tested it when trying to reduce the throttle movement the 500 is plagued with. It reduces the amount of twist you need to make by around 14% IIRC.
You could find one cheap on Ebay and the grips are good as well, don't get the 500 genuine grips, they are frankly awful, uncomfortable even with gloves on and without sheer agony to use. The 550F grips are far better and the 1300 grips look just like them.
If it has any cables coming out of it don't buy as it's hand heated grips fitted and you'd need the other side to match and the 500 couldn't run them anyway.
https://www.bike-parts-honda.com/honda-motorcycle/1300-MOTO/CB/2009/CB13009/Frame/LEVER--SWITCH--CABLE-2-/75361/F_03/2/722
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Nice tip. I shall try that….herald run on cB1300 throttle parts😀
Definitely agree with 550F2 grips.
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The 1300 throttle pipe comes with grip already attached so even though it's pricey if buying new at least you get both pipe and grip and buy the matching grip for the left side and it's acceptable for what you get. Plus the grips are nice, stylish and comfortable.
AND,
You don't need to order from DS, any Honda dealer will get them for you.
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The 1300 throttle pipe comes with grip already attached so even though it's pricey if buying new at least you get both pipe and grip and buy the matching grip for the left side and it's acceptable for what you get. Plus the grips are nice, stylish and comfortable.
AND,
You don't need to order from DS, any Honda dealer will get them for you.
Presumably they are the same diameter handle bars the, do you have a part number for the 1300 option by any chance?
The bike is taxed & insured from today only cost £26.99 to add the 500 to my Policy with Peter James.
Just fitting a spare horn as the existing one just clicks - tried the adjuster screw - result a louder single click.
Can't dismantle as it's rivetted together.
Throttle routing sorted using existing cables just need to sort the horn so it's road legal.
First ride before the weekend hopefully.
Amendment:- Spare horn fitted & operational. (Gawd it does sound a pathetic beep).
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Yes Ted, same diameter bars and I also checked the extra height of the pipe ears fit the existing switches without fouling.
Part number is shown on that link I posted but just in case, part number 5 is 53140-MFP-N00 £28.55 and the corresponding grip to match is part No6, 53166-MFP-N00 at £15.90. Prices include VAT. Total £44.45. You can ring any local Honda dealer with those part numbers and pay over the phone, they'll advise when in stock and just one trip to pick them up.
As comparison, throttle pipe, 53141-300-010 is £16.08 , R/H grip 53165-390-780 is £12.12 and L/H grip 53166-390-780 is also £12.12. Total £40.32 plus £7 P&P DS charges. Reasonably comparable I'd say.
I was lucky in mine, I fitted genuine Honda heated grips to the 1300 and it came with throttle pipe included so I removed all those parts, thus my upgrade is free.
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Ted, for the throttle pipe I'd recommend buying one off a CB1300, 2003-2010. The ears where the cables connect is bigger so you get more pull for the same action, I tested it when trying to reduce the throttle movement the 500 is plagued with. It reduces the amount of twist you need to make by around 14% IIRC.
I thought it was just me thinking the twist was ridiculous !! Cheers :)
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Sorry missed the link - I've made it in my basket from the link as follows.
Complete RH unit £28.55
LKeft hand |Grip £15.90
Transport £7.90
Total £52.35 incl VAT still cheaper than DS will it work with the existing cables?
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Fitted my test rig Ted. Why not order from your local dealer via phone.
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Fitted my test rig Ted. Why not order from your local dealer via phone.
The local Honda dealer was Bob Minions in Derby who is now selling Royal Enfields - nearest dealer is a good 20 miles away (None in Derby itself now) so cost more in fuel to drive over.
What is the test rig you refer to Ken?
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Did a massive reply yesterday on my Ipad, was just about to press send when it just went off. 75% battery power and it said the battery was flat. Put it on charge and of course the reply is now gone.
So here goes again.
Test rig. Used my old genuine Honda handlebars, a genuine left hand switchgear and some old but good throttle cables. For the carbs I just used the frame with the butterfly on as carbs are not needed for this. I marked everything up at rest and then remarked when throttle fully open. Check reply 137 on this thread. http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,19895.135.html It explains what I did and what the results were.
20 miles would be good to do the test run on the 500 Ted, but hey ho, it's your money and I can see why postage may be better.
Whilst you've got the left hand switchgear open have you checked to see if the throttle clamp is working. This is the large chrome screw under the switch and between the cables, when you wind it in the throttle stiffens up, which I can see you frowning thinking why would I want that, well on a motorway you can wind this screw in as you ride and the throttle will stay open at a set speed, all that pressure of holding the throttle open goes away, in case you need to shut off the throttle you just twist it and the return cable closes the throttle against the pressure of the clamp. The screw should have a chrome spring on but there is an internal ramp? which usually falls out when you open the switchgear and rolls away and you never notice it. Check to see if this ramp is there. It's a very handy bit of kit, can be used to set the tickover at 3000 to check the advance retard mechanism for instance, which is what Honda fitted it for IIRC. The 750 and the 500 got this clamp, the 550 did not. However everything on the 550 switchgear is there except the drilling for the screw, I converted my 550 switchgear to fit one as I use it a lot.
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I've ordered the 1300 grip & grip tube for the LHS.
Can't ride my 500 today as it's stuck on my bike stand - on it's centre stand - either my brother or a friend will have to help me get it off safely.
On my 400 I could stradle the bike on the stand, put my left foot on the stand lever and push forwards pulling on the front brake before the front wheel hits the front stop plate - the 500 is heavier plus the lever is higher off the ground I just can't hold the stand with my left foot the whole bike moves forward instead on the darn ramp base. It might be the centre stand pivot is a little seized.
I've tried putting a long piece of wood between the ramp end & the foot of the cente stand but it's just does not quite come off the stand. Not worth risking me falling over with the bike trying to do it alone - or even worse the bike falling on Wendy's car in the garage -
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Ted, the 500 is my baby, I've done things to 500s that most others haven't even thought of. One of the things is fitting the centre stand with a grease nipple. Now the tube of the centre stand isn't thick enough to take a nipple without it fouling the pin, so what I did was drill a 5mm hole central on the tube, in a location that I knew I could get a grease gun to when it's fitted and where there was little chance of it fouling anything. Tap the hole to 6mm and flat spot the tube, insert a 6mm bolt with a nut on, flanged might work better but mine was just a plain nut. Thread the bolt into the hole and then tighten the nut down onto the flat spot. Get it welded there, a seam weld so grease doesn't escape when the pressure is on. Remove the bolt after and using a 6mm copper washer fit a grease nipple. A few quick squeezes once a year and the stand will never seize again, it rolls on and off like it's not even there. You can do the hole 4mm and use a 5mm nipple if you so choose and stainless nipples are now readily available when they weren't when I first did this back in the late 70s.
I fitted grease nipples all over the bike, the rear brake pivot tube for the brake lever has one, both front caliper mounts have them, swinging arm got a central grease nipple to improve the way the bushes got greased, even the headstock got one, I can grease the taper rollers without taking the bike apart.
I have further plans to improve the side stand and make it cut the engine out if you set off with it down (and you will do this, everyone has), lots of ideas, some good, some just weird.
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Thanks again Ken for the advice I'll look at doing something similar when doing the strip down.
Good news young Marco (I got him through his driving test almost 5 yrs ago) dropped by on his way home from work to help me get the bike safely off the ramp.
I'm cooking the tea now for when Wendy's back from work so the road test will have to wait till the morrow.
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C’mon Ted. Make an effort the suspense is killing me…🫣
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C’mon Ted. Make an effort the suspense is killing me…🫣
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Philip, I have a small widow of opportunity tomorrow I have a Hospital appointment at 3.50 pm and an important delivery between 11.00am & 2.00pm. if I go for after 2.00pm and break down - problem. If I go at around 9 30 am it works for me if it's dry!
If I break down early morning then Royal Mail can try a neighbour!
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If you break down i will be pissed off mate BUT it will drink more petrol than you think on short journeys
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No test ride this morning I have an an aural migraine - no headache just disturbed vision usually lasts 20 minutes - I get them every few months - might try a ride late this afternoon.
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You’re just teasing us….
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You’re just teasing us….
Wuss is nearer the mark - I have the odd bad days amongst good days - today my thighs ached when I got up - must have run a marathon whilst asleep - it's also known as old age.
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You’re just teasing us….
You have shamed me into a first ride now I'm back home from my appointment Philip.
After a tin of Popeye's best spinach I rode around the estate at the back to see how I managed - it felt as heavy as my old XJ 900 as I pootled round the block only got as far as third gear due to traffic, speed limit, seemingly poor heavy front brake plus rear pedal is a tad low. My feet seem too big I keep on striking the alternator housing with my size 12's- shame its not heel & toe shift.
The bike certainly fits me better in terms of comfort / height - it seems to have a lot more grunt/torque than my 400. As the bike has been standing it might be prudent for me to check the caliper piston operation before I do another run to get into top gear.
A promising start from my perspective. It reminded me of when I first rode my Triumph 21 when I was 19/20.
BP & Pulse back to normal.
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Check the rear brake pedal punch marks align with the brake spindle Ted, if they do try adjusting the height screw on the frame, you can raise or lower the pedal with it.
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Check the rear brake pedal punch marks align with the brake spindle Ted, if they do try adjusting the height screw on the frame, you can raise or lower the pedal with it.
The adjustment screw is a long way out so moving the pedal a spline ot two will sort.
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Really pleased you have broken your duck, Ted. Congratulations.
Now for next outing…..
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Moving the splines may not be the answer though Ted. Honda used punch marks so as to make it easy to not only get the mechanism right but also to highlight when it had a problem.
If the punch marks line up, not only on the brake pedal and brake spindle but also on the brake drum arm and it’s spindle and things still don’t feel right it shows that somewhere there’s a problem. It could be worn brake shoes or the pivot pin has excessive play or one of the levers is bent etc so just moving the splines may in fact cover up the fault.
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Moving the splines may not be the answer though Ted. Honda used punch marks so as to make it easy to not only get the mechanism right but also to highlight when it had a problem.
If the punch marks line up, not only on the brake pedal and brake spindle but also on the brake drum arm and it’s spindle and things still don’t feel right it shows that somewhere there’s a problem. It could be worn brake shoes or the pivot pin has excessive play or one of the levers is bent etc so just moving the splines may in fact cover up the fault.
The brake shoes look very new with naff all wear I'll check the punch mark & follow your diagnosis advice. Not likely to do much before Tuesday as the Gaffer is at home & shopping beckons. (sigh)
Update:- Managed to sneak a look at the bike - the rear brake levershaft dots are just one half spline out - if I rotate the lever just one spline anticlockwise it will be sorted. Must have felt stronger today as I managed to get the 500 on the centre stand without drama this morning after resting overnight on the side stand. (The bike not me)
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You need to wear a pair of those shoes like Slade used to wear Ted, maybe you've got some in the loft.
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You need to wear a pair of those shoes like Slade used to wear Ted, maybe you've got some in the loft.
Not sure I could find any Daytona m/c Winkle Pickers boots these days probably no NOS ones left- I might be able to move the lever a bit lower to give me boot-toe room.
Slades platforms would make my feet even bigger I need Shawaddy Waddy ones!
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Ted its a knack, you stand on the centre stand with one foot(usualy right)and rock backwards lifting on grab rail at same time. The brake shoes were new pattern but had to be shaved a bit as i think that was a relined rear hub, not 100% sure as i had 3 done umptiy didly twelve years ago. That means they will probably need a bit extra bedding in to work 100%
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The rear brake is fine now no binding either just had to adjust the b/l switch.
Yesterday I tried the same method to get it on the centre stand after 3 fails it was on the side stand overnight. This morning same way as yesterday - left hand on the bars, right hand on the rear rail, pressed down with my right foot - straight up on the stand.
Just a crap day yesterday - vision, balance & leg weakness - today normal.👍👍👍
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Normal! I wish
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Sounds familiar Ted, I'm sure either the bike gets heavier or gravity gets stronger as time passes.
Cheers
Dennis
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Sounds familiar Ted, I'm sure either the bike gets heavier or gravity gets stronger as time passes.
Cheers
Dennis
Too true Dennis plus the fear of dropping it & looking extra stupid!
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Not like the younger days when having fell off the Enfield 250 in the snow at walking pace and lying in the gutter watching the car slide towards you all you can do is crease yourself laughing!
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Sounds familiar Ted, I'm sure either the bike gets heavier or gravity gets stronger as time passes.
Cheers
Dennis
Too true Dennis plus the fear of dropping it & looking extra stupid!
Does anybody make a zimmer frame with bike lift attachment? 🤣
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Mmmmm i see a patent coming soon
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Ted
Busso have reduced the price of their exhaust systems for 40 days
Not sure what add on costs there are but £800 seems a good deal
https://www.bussostore.com/collections/honda/products/marmitte-honda-replica-originali-cb500k0k1k2-four
Simon
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I know life is a series of challenges but today did not quite end as I planned.
Last Friday 16th Sept 2022 I managed to get round the block at the back but due to a lack of safe braking I returned home only managing to get as high as 3rd gear. I did not mention previously that as I turned into my drive the engine stalled at my gates.
After opening the gates the bike did not want to restart so I was forced to walk it up ino my garage with leg power. I then noticed that the choke was fully on in the up position. Choke off and she fired up okay.
Today I had lunch out with my brother I stuck to alcohol free beer as I had a longer ride out planned this afternoon. Bike started up so initially I thought a short ride around the estate to try the brakes out before the test ride propper.
I started off well with some extra revving to keep the engine going as it was warming up. As I rode round the block it was running progressively worse so decided to return home. Once again the engine struggled to keep going as I turned into my driveway where it conked out. The choke was once again the culprit being in the fully on position.
I'm not sure why the choke comes on - could be I catch it with my boots when changing gear?
Is this something others here have had an issue with - I might need to put a rubber band on it somehow to stop accidental operation. The engine is now misfiring so I will need to clean the plugs again and try again at the weekend.
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Does the choke move and open/close with a sort of click Ted?
There is a small spring and ball bearing fitted behind the lever, if it's been left out on the rebuild the lever will essentially just move under the vibration of the engine. There are small indents on the back of the choke lever for the ball bearing to go into at fully open/close, you should hear the click as the bearing locates at both these positions.
I has however been known for boots to close the choke as you ride as you suggest, just check where the boots are in relation to the choke lever and see if it looks a possibility
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Yes Ken the choke does have a nice click when fully off - Bryan had them restored (Gerben?) about 12-18 months ago- just gone out into the garage with boot in hand - with the boot on the foorest the top part is almost level with the lever.
Its a series or four/five roads round the block with lots of up & down on the approaches to give ways. On my 400 the choke is much higher up & out of the way so not a problem.
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Even Gerben cam make a mistake Ted. Always worth checking.
As for the boot, you may have to alter your riding position a bit or wear shorter boots. I've got some Marc Marquez ankle boots by Alpine Star and find them really comfortable, much more so then my Sidi boots.
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Even Gerben cam make a mistake Ted. Always worth checking.
As for the boot, you may have to alter your riding position a bit or wear shorter boots. I've got some Marc Marquez ankle boots by Alpine Star and find them really comfortable, much more so then my Sidi boots.
I struggle with the gear upshift due to my size 12 feet in my Daytonas - not sure if I can shift the lever a bit lower down on the splines.
If you see someone in Derbyshire on a 500 riding extra Bow Legged it will be me !
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I have read on the US site of people having that problem with the choke Ted but never had it myself, the lever can be moved on the splines but you need to make sure the clamp bolt does not foul against anything, if you want i will try and find another gear lever so you could try and modify the shape to help.
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I'd check the gear lever Ted as well, behind the part where it clamps. The 500 lever is very slightly longer than the 550 lever but they look identical, it's very easy to mix the 2 up. The 550 has a letter A stamped on the inside of that block, the 500 doesn't.
Check post 171 on this thread http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,19895.165.html
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On my 500/4 I found it impossible to ride the bike with full - length boots, due to the choke activating on some upshifts - not what you want when overtaking! (I'm a size 10, by the way).
The answer was to wear only ankle boots when using it, something that I found so comfortable that my new full - length boots remain virtually unused, except in very cold weather or when touring.
By chance, I ended up fitting a 750-gear lever on the 500 as the splines became worn on the original and I had a 750 lever in my box of spares. I subsequently found that, after riding my BMW and jumping straight on to the 500 in full - length boots, it had cured the tendency for me to catch the choke lever on upshifts - something that you might like to try yourself?
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I'd check the gear lever Ted as well, behind the part where it clamps. The 500 lever is very slightly longer than the 550 lever but they look identical, it's very easy to mix the 2 up. The 550 has a letter A stamped on the inside of that block, the 500 doesn't.
Check post 171 on this thread http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,19895.165.html
Not sure what the PO fitted I'll check the shifter.
Pretty sure I can make an interlock to keep the choke off without too much difficulty.
There is always a cable tie if all else fails.lol
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I have read on the US site of people having that problem with the choke Ted but never had it myself, the lever can be moved on the splines but you need to make sure the clamp bolt does not foul against anything, if you want i will try and find another gear lever so you could try and modify the shape to help.
I'll check what lever I have first thanks Bryan - at least I've found the cause it was weird as the bike ran rougher and rougher so quickly. Glad it's something simple to sort out.
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I have the same problem with my boots putting the choke on also but after realising what was happening it doesn’t seem to happen so much now so maybe I’ve adjusted my position slightly I also had an issue with my feet being too big I’ve got a 550k3 which isn’t a problem but my 550f2 I couldn’t change gear without catching the casing with my boots the k3 lever bends outward more than the f2 so I’ve fitted a k3 lever on the f2 problem solved my feet are size 10 so not abnormal
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Finally went out on the 500 this morning without any drama - choke lever fixed in the OFF position with a narrow cable tie for now.
All five gears were good - I did quite a bit of accelerating & gentle braking to get the front pads settled - brakes got better with every application as the pads warmed up a little. Most importantly my hips were fine - it felt an easier ride than the 400 with the extra torque as you would expect.
A 10 mile road trip revealed a few things to look at during the re-build - an odd clonk from the front suspension area - plenty of general clatter from the engine but nothing too sinister sounding.
I'm thinking cam chain & primary drive chain & clutch area noises to my semi-trained ears plus a noisy exhuast blow near the silencer joint area.
Not that there was really ever any doubt - the engine will need stripping down it will be a few months before I start in earnest as I want to finish my 400 spare carb rebuild and put a few more miles on my 400 before the cold & rain sets in. I'll do a compression test beforehand to get a datum point. The engine pulls very well despite the above only wound her up to 60 mph briefly to feel the burn. lol
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Nice project Ted! Good luck, we look forward to updates. (Check clock mounting bracket, bent or loose) maybe just the angle but look as if they are sitting flatter than the norm.
Only one nut holding it on - the other was loose!
I've started the frame strip already so engine might be out within a week or so.
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Removed the sump this morning - the pick up mesh was covered in a black slime that as I started to pull at it revealed what looks like fine mesh fibre - maybe something out of an oil filter (https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52385735955_8c97a51afd_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nP9Ad4)500 mesh filter (https://flic.kr/p/2nP9Ad4) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr?
.
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Looks like the oil filter has collapsed, had the same thing happen to me although mine almost covered the mesh. Check the filter and see if it has deformed, mine spiraled like someone had wrung it out. That's what you get for using non Honda filters.
When removing the filter Ted, don't forget that the spring has a large washer on top of it that gets stuck to the rubber of the filter and if you're not careful, thrown away with it.
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Certainly not supposed to be there Ted, and looks similar to some filter material.
However, the oil filter is only in line supply from oil pump and out through the pressured points at crankshaft etc. Makes me wonder if that's possible to pass so much material (is it more or less one piece) through an entire system without blocking it. Perhaps I've missed something along the way.
As Ken says, inspection of the filter may give a clue, but I can't immediately see it all going through that system to arrive at the sump in first place.
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The material completely covered the gauze - as the black sludge fell off it clumped into the bunch in the photo.
I'm going to investigate the filter but of course it could have come from a previous one.
Update: The filter I just removed looked fine - looks like a build up from previous filter(s).
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Mine went completely through the system as it ended up exactly like Teds, it may be fibres pass through and then mat onto the mesh. I do know it resulted in oil pressure light flickering on/off and scoring of the oil pump rotor tips, luckily I spotted it as I had an oil pressure gauge fitted at the time so I was able to slow down to avoid a seizure.
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My fault for believing the man i got the engine from that it was rebuilt and fine!
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My fault for believing the man i got the engine from that it was rebuilt and fine!
Don't beat yourself up about it Bryan I have started refering to the "PO" not Bryan's old 500 - its a 50 year old bike that prior to yourself had a bunch of owners.
Good news for me is so far no seized bolts to contend with as the engine has clearly been stripped down before.
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I felt like Popeye after his spinach when I got up this morning,
I have removed the camshaft that was in superb condition - the cylinder head came off pretty easily only odd thing was when I was undoing the head nuts in order I thought the socket was slipping on the nuts - it made such a strange clicking noise as the nuts undid for the first half turn or so. After removinmg all the nuts & washers I squirted plenty of releasing fluid along the gasket line. A few taps with my big rubber mallet and it let go same with the block.
Most fidly bit was getting enough slack in the cam chain after undoing the drive gear to lift out the camshaft. Even now I have not worked out how I finally managed to get the chain off the gear so it would feed through so as to speak. I did have to have a coffee break to overcome that hurdle.
Some decent vertical scoring on a couple of the piston skirts - the engine knew I was going to to end up inside.
Crankcase splitting will have to wait until I have some floor space and have put stuff into storage.
Engine lift out within a week is my plan A.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52388356866_4f6c2809cb_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nPo2jb)No 1 & 2 pistons (https://flic.kr/p/2nPo2jb) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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Exciting times Ted! Never know what your going to find. Coffee/tea breaks essential.😁
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I love stripping motors, it's the time when you get to piece together a bit of potential history of the engine. Bet you're loving it Ted.?Hope you've plenty of black 'sharpies' and resealable freezer bags to get that lot in and labelled up for later?
Dont forget, take more pictures than you think you have from every angle if you're not sure if you'll remember and the more coffee breaks the better..............with biscuits! Its the law! ;) 8)
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Is that a score draw? Ted 2 Bike 2. 😁
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Is that a score draw? Ted 2 Bike 2. 😁
I guess it is yes!
My BiL said I would buy another bike - I told him naaaaah.
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;D
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I love stripping motors, it's the time when you get to piece together a bit of potential history of the engine. Bet you're loving it Ted.?Hope you've plenty of black 'sharpies' and resealable freezer bags to get that lot in and labelled up for later?
Dont forget, take more pictures than you think you have from every angle if you're not sure if you'll remember and the more coffee breaks the better..............with biscuits! Its the law! ;) 8)
Never used freezer bags I use clear plastic takeaway boxes and some odd plastic woven boxes for bulky stuff (Wendy threw them out)
Cam covers, cylinder head & block go in a big black plastic box with old towels or bubble wrap to stop damage. I try to arrange them in some sort of order on my garage shelves.
Today I have been searching for the alternator rotor end bolt without success. I'm eyeing the Chihuahuas as suspects.
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The freezer bags are great as they have that slide fastening so you can open and close em as much as you like. I get them up to 18" long for the bigger bits. They come in mixed packs on flea bay for ablut 12 quid odd. I dont have the room for boxes so have everything separated into these bags and written on as to where and what it is and then goes into the main build box.
I have one tote for all new stuff and another full of the bagged bits ready to be cleaned, fettled, sworn at etc. they both sit under the bench when its up so works ok for me. i tried the take away containers but endedup with loads of lids and no bottoms so went back to the bags. Its the same place where I get those little tubs from that I sent that snot in to you last month. Theyre god to and great in the sonic cleaner bath meaning you can do heaps all together without having to remember whats what after mixing it up.
I do have slight OCD though which might explain it. I haven't really done a huge amount over here yet, concentrating on cutting the hedge and getting the place tidy as i couldnt stand to look at it any more, it looked like someone had just stabbed it with a trimmer and I just HAD to sort it!
I am a strange chap sometimes ;D ;D ;D
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What do you mean SOMETIMES???
If you fail to find it Ted I've got a couple lying around.
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What do you mean SOMETIMES???
If you fail to find it Ted I've got a couple lying around.
Thanks Ken I'll let you know if its gone to Planet Biro.
Today I will be tidying up putting removed parts onto the garage shelves into some sort of order - if I had a cat there would be no room to swing it.
Roo I can see the benefits of bags I might start the change over to reduce space - strange how you can end up with lids that fit nowt.
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What do you mean SOMETIMES???
Well I mean roughly 23 out of the 24hrs in any day ;D ;)
If you fail to find it Ted I've got a couple lying around.
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Found it as you do when looking for something else (Crank alternator rotor bolt)!
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My younger brother came over this morning to give me a lift out of the engine.
The frame strip will be next before I split the crankcase to give some room at the end of the bike ramp for engine work.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52394612731_2e9b0ebb68_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nPW5XV)engine out (https://flic.kr/p/2nPW5XV) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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It was looking like that about a year ago, but going together
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It was looking like that about a year ago, but going together
I was surprised at the clutch basket - it looks brand new still.
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For some reason the 500 dont seem to wear mutch, no special spanners either
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Headstock spanner or socket Bryan? I've actually got one of those, genuine as well.
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I meant for the engine Ken, i use a C spanner on headstock
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This is what was behind the fork ears the left one was worse rust extends down to the gaiters. - both front gaiters were split.
Looks bad even though some is hidden behind the fork ears / headlamp brackets.
I am guessing that is an expensive fix.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52396895734_1b4ae646a0_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nQ8MC3)front forks (https://flic.kr/p/2nQ8MC3) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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Send the to Philpots for re hard Chroming Ted.
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Echoing the above Ted, they very often look like this after years out and about, that's fairly typical.
Usually recoverable completely through them and think you'll be impressed with how they come back.
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Send the to Philpots for re hard Chroming Ted.
Am I right in thinking it's this firm in Luton?
Any idea Julie or K2-K6 as to a ball park figure cost for the pair - thanks Ted?
.https://www.amphardchrome.co.uk/
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Send the to Philpots for re hard Chroming Ted.
Am I right in thinking it's this firm in Luton?
Any idea Julie or K2-K6 as to a ball park figure cost for the pair - thanks Ted?
.https://www.amphardchrome.co.uk/
Yes Ted, that's them. They collect and deliver as well. I would have thought with recent price increases, it'll be over £200 now. Turnaround is 4-6 weeks at the moment.
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Thanks for the rough figure - presumably I have to dismantle the fork internals and just send the chromed uppers - that will be interesting as my 400 forks were already rebuilt so Ill have to figure out how to dismantle them next.
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Thanks for the rough figure - presumably I have to dismantle the fork internals and just send the chromed uppers - that will be interesting as my 400 forks were already rebuilt so Ill have to figure out how to dismantle them next.
They do offer a dismantle and rebuild service Ted but you will be fine taking them apart. Also send them the top fork nuts as well and they will do them.
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The bottom one looks to have a slight bend in it, Philpotts will correct that as well FOC
There is also Dynasurf in Sandbach, who are slightly cheaper but won't do the top nuts for free.
To save money Honda didn't chrome the stanchion under the fork ears, it wasn't seen so why bother, hence why they all look like that, some are a LOT worse.
Put a fork back into the yokes, clamp it up and then remove the 6mm allen key hidden under where the bottom end cap goes, do it BEFORE undoing the top nut, get it loose then undo the top nut. Repeat for other fork. You sometimes need a air hammer or impact gun to get the bottom allen key to shift, I suspect yours won't be that hard as they look to have been apart before.
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I've removed the column from the frame can I just fit the yokes to the two fork tubes and clamp them off the frame to undo the bottom allen key bolt?
The top of the column has some damage where it has been clouted with a hammer sometime in the last 50 years - luckily the top thread is okay for the nut.
Not a great picture of the top bit.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52397254698_19ea4decbf_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nQaCk5)PXL_20221001_135808627 (https://flic.kr/p/2nQaCk5) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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Ted, I have just had the fork tubes done by Philpotts, took a while but perfect job. As they belong to Lazarus they were a lot worse than yours and i was unsure if they could be saved. Ring up philpotts and you will speak to a very nice lady who will arrange for collection next day and I was charged £215 all in inc delivery, and did my top nuts free. Only problem is if they are kinked, if so they wont do them for safety reasons.
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Sounds a brilliant service I can't see any physical bend in them the photo & angle make them just look odd.
Not sure if it's damage or how they are - both fork ears have small creases on the inside. One is well pitted with rust the offside one is not bad.
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I have one nos pair for No36 i will see if i can get to them for pictures Ted
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I have one nos pair for No36 i will see if i can get to them for pictures Ted
Pictures should be okay if you use my e-mail Bryan or what's app if easier..
Not sure what No36 means?
Cheers Ted
I've dismantled the pair of forks without issue so I have the long bit with a spring out of the alloy cases.
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Bryan is referring to his Number 36 off the production line I think Ted, its a sooper dooper really early one he has.
Ive probably got some internals up for grabs if anything is knackered in there Ted, speak up and I'll have a mooch round the shed when I get home.
Forgot to say, I managed a speeding ticket on the way ho,me from yours..........76 in a 70! Miserable buggers!
Had a great day and met you n Wendy so more than worth it. How are the plants doing, your tank lookingh like the Amazon
yet? ;)
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Looking at my now dismantled front forks if I am completely honest I can't get my head around how they actually work.
A long spring with a puddle of oil in the bottom?
I was expecting some sort of piston in the middle at least.
I'll have to search the net for a schematic diagram.
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The plants are holding their own, my sump filter system has pushed them to the far end of the tank away from the weir.
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Yeah mine do that so i mount themm on bits of nylon so they stay put.or just let them do their own thing and watch em bobble about. Glad the bike's coming on so well mate 8)
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I can't believe I've got the frame stripped virtually bare - just one lower steering column upper race to remove then it's opposite number at the bottom of the steering column
I'll slow down soon when the cold weather bites & the cash flow interrupts play/progress
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crack on while you can Ted, especially as you're in the groove. And you're only doing it as you enjoy it, thats a good thing :) ;) 8)
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I'll slow down soon when the cold weather bites & the cash flow interrupts play/progress
I just move mine in to the lounge ..... one of the perks of living on your own ;D
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I'll slow down soon when the cold weather bites & the cash flow interrupts play/progress
I just move mine in to the lounge ..... one of the perks of living on your own ;D
I do have a small office that is heated attached to my garage but the whole bike will not fit in without major alteration. I can do small stuff in the office but not really a complete engine. I have a night storage heater in there with full wall & ceiling insulation.
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Tne 550 is the only engine that hasnt been brought into the kitchen/lounge to be built up. Saying that all the bits been through the dishwasher umpteen times by the Long Haired General.........without prompting i might add...........she's a keeper ;D ;D
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Ted those were new tapers on the headstock and the only way to get the bottom one out is grind it and knacker it so i would leave it in if at all possible
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Ted those were new tapers on the headstock and the only way to get the bottom one out is grind it and knacker it so i would leave it in if at all possible
My BiL has a special tool that removes them undamaged.
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What or who is BiL
Cheers
Dennis
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What or who is BiL
Cheers
Dennis
Sorry Brother-in-Law (BiL)
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I had real trouble on my 550 removing the taper roller bearings as there is no space to get a long drift to knock them out, the bearing is the same diameter as the housing. In the end i had a mate put a bead of weld around it and it just fell out. Same problem now with Lazarus.
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The manual states there are 6 bolts on the top half of the casing I have 6 holes but only 5 bolts so either one is missing or there its a dowel in its place - position is circled in blue?
What is the big bolt head with a built in tab please?
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52398322212_bb743de107_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nQg6Eu)Top casing bolts (https://flic.kr/p/2nQg6Eu) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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Big bolt is the gearchange selector drum retaining bolt. It was used on early models to aid positive neutral selection.
The one circled is one of the 6 bolt holes and uses a 6 x 100mm flanged bolt.
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Big bolt is the gearchange selector drum retaining bolt. It was used on early models to aid positive neutral selection.
The one circled is one of the 6 bolt holes and uses a 6 x 100mm flanged bolt.
Thanks Ken - a missing bolt then - no problem. Next I need to dismantle the primary gear drive as it's nothing like the 400.
Time for me to read the manual again in detail - so far I've just removed two circlips & the gearshift levers - that's it for today - need to keep the right side of Wendy on her only day off in the last 6 days.
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And the casing has been separated a tad ahead of schedule.
A bit of a wrangle getting the primary shaft out of the casing but managed in the end with minimum violence.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52400088278_9a513c4941_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nQq9DU)2nd October 2022 (https://flic.kr/p/2nQq9DU) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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People seem to think that to replace the primary drive rubbers you need to remove the 3 large countersunk JIS screws but in actual fact you don't. As soon as you remove the circlip it will come apart.
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People seem to think that to replace the primary drive rubbers you need to remove the 3 large countersunk JIS screws but in actual fact you don't. As soon as you remove the circlip it will come apart.
Noted Ken along with your other words of wisdom.
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Sharp rap on a piece of softwood will separate the primary drive to access the rubbers. This is where it gets interesting as many report the rubbers as being as hard as marble, but my 1977 17k miles example was as soft as originally installed, which is by the way not ‘soft’, just ‘compliant’. I replaced mine anyway as a matter of course. They ain’t cheap. That primary drive looks past its best by the way…..
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Less than £50 for the Kawasaki one its change it anyway
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Although it's clearly not the original there was a fair bit of play in the primary chain - I'll defo replace it.
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Less than £50 for the Kawasaki one its change it anyway
Anyone got the Kwaka part number handy please?
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92057-1011
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I’d replace it Ted, but before you do try to evaluate the actual wear. This photo provides a simple visual check. The one in the background is a new Kawasaki item, the one in the foreground is 17k miles.
If you do replace the chain it would be useful for you to post a similar comparison just out of interest.
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92057-1011
Thanks Ken.
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I convinced the BIL to replace the primary chain in my other 500 when he had it apart a few months ago. I had a spare Kwack chain so I sold him that one, 2 days later he's saying he's going to buy a new genuine one from DS as the Kwack fails the tank track test, which is what I called the method when I discovered it many moons ago, he's adamant he can get the chain to touch along a lot of the links. A new chain will touch but it really needs to be forced, whereas an old one will touch without even trying. I spent 5 minutes telling him he must be wrong, he's adamant he's not. After a while I asked him, are you testing on a flat surface, yes, you do have the chain on it's edge like a tank track? Silence. An embarrassed few seconds later and he admits he's been testing it lying on it's side, puts it on it's edge and of course it refuses to touch links. I wonder about him sometimes.
Fowlers has some in stock Ted. Cheap as well, sure they were dearer last time I bought a couple.
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Too late ordered one from MSP - it was a couple of quid cheaper than in March 2021 !!
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Same price as Fowlers?
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Same price as Fowlers?
£57.34 including VAT & delivery.
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The casing that I am dismantling has crank codes BAAAA.
The mains coded A are Green bearings, no code at the moment for (B) mains 1.
The donor casing I have to use has crank codes AABBB.
Looks like I will have fun sorting out the new combination.
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Green, Green, Brown, Brown, Brown.
That's the biggest shell allowance for the crankcase coding, A can only have had Yellow or Green from the factory, B can only have had Green or Brown. So chose the thickest of the 2 colours available and run it in carefully.
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Thanks Ken I've just parceled up my forks for Philpots - courier collect on Thursday as I'm not at home all day until then.
Awaiting price for frame powder coating - I quite fancy dark brown or gloss black.
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BROWN...................are you sure? :o
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You do realise that if you go with brown you'll have people saying that's a really shit colour mate ;D ;D ;D And they'd be right.
I've seen a couple of frames when going to pick my bits up from the powder coaters, one was Candy Blue and the other was Candy Purple like the old Fords, Aubergine I think it was called. Utterly stunning the pair of them, I was gobsmakced by how nice the blue one was, I even convinced myself to have mine done in that colour it was so nice. However it wouldn't suit the rest of the paintwork so I talked myself out of it.
I'm seriously considering having the 1300 frame done in Candy Apple Red, they did a model with a post office red frame in 2007, always liked it. Plus my 1300 is Pearlescent white with Candy red inserts so it would go really well with it.
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Same price as Fowlers?
£57.34 including VAT & delivery.
£51.52 from Fowlers Ted. £48 if you can find a Kwack dealer to order one for you and you pick it up. I got mine to order me 3 so the petrol cost was split 3 ways, 15 miles there and 15 back and went on my 1300 so less than a gallon used.
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Same price as Fowlers?
£57.34 including VAT & delivery.
£51.52 from Fowlers Ted. £48 if you can find a Kwack dealer to order one for you and you pick it up. I got mine to order me 3 so the petrol cost was split 3 ways, 15 miles there and 15 back and went on my 1300 so less than a gallon used.
By the time I've driven to Borrowash found somewhere to park returning 22 mpg in my 3 litre Jeep it's cheaper to pay postage. Derby itself is not well served by Motor Cycle Dealers like they were in the 1960's.
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Same price as Fowlers?
£57.34 including VAT & delivery.
£51.52 from Fowlers Ted. £48 if you can find a Kwack dealer to order one for you and you pick it up. I got mine to order me 3 so the petrol cost was split 3 ways, 15 miles there and 15 back and went on my 1300 so less than a gallon used.
By the time I've driven to Borrowash found somewhere to park returning 22 mpg in my 3 litre Jeep it's cheaper to pay postage. Derby itself is not well served by Motor Cycle Dealers like they were in the 1960's.
Ted - Remember Palin's Motors the Honda dealer?
Are Bob Minions still going?
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I got my 500 parts book from a shop in Derby, I'd ridden down with the future missus and I'd bought and asked for so many parts that he asked if I was interested in buying a parts book to make it easier, cost me £5 and I still have it, it's really battered and tatty now and pages have come loose but I'd never swap it. It's even got some prices hand written against part numbers, which make me smile when I see them and compare them to todays prices.
Shop was a main Honda dealer, somewhere close to the city centre IIRC. I may recognise the name if you know it. Palins? maybe
OMG I posted that without reading Tims post. Yep, Palins is correct.
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I got my 500 parts book from a shop in Derby, I'd ridden down with the future missus and I'd bought and asked for so many parts that he asked if I was interested in buying a parts book to make it easier, cost me £5 and I still have it, it's really battered and tatty now and pages have come loose but I'd never swap it. It's even got some prices hand written against part numbers, which make me smile when I see them and compare them to todays prices.
Shop was a main Honda dealer, somewhere close to the city centre IIRC. I may recognise the name if you know it. Palins? maybe
OMG I posted that without reading Tims post. Yep, Palins is correct.
There may have been two Honda Dealers as Bob Minion was a Honda Dealer for many decades 40 (plus firstly on Park St then London Rd) as was Samways when they were on the corner of Nuns Street & Mill Street before moving onto Ashbourne Road as Pedal Cycle only dealers they closed completely about 3/4 years ago.
I used to look into Samways showroom window looking at the new Honda CX500 for sale.
I have no memory of Palins being Honda though they may have replaced Samways.
Bob Minions is still going I think it's a son of Lionel Minion or Bob's that runs the site - now Royal Enfield & Royal Alloy.
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Palins were definitely a main Honda dealer at one time. Would have been around 1976-7 when I was there, for some reason Osmaston Road keeps nagging me as the address, is that correct?
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Definitely Palin's / Honda. Spent too much time and money there in the 70's and 80's.
Minions were Suzuki for sure in the main. Probably some Yams and Kwaks too?
Always thought of Samways as bicycles / small mopeds etc? Probably wrong... Their slogan was "Samways for the Highways". Isn't the mind a wonder (even in the degenerated state mine is in)
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You're only as old as who you feel Tim ;)
leave it....... ;D
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Definitely Palin's / Honda. Spent too much time and money there in the 70's and 80's.
Minions were Suzuki for sure in the main. Probably some Yams and Kwaks too?
Always thought of Samways as bicycles / small mopeds etc? Probably wrong... Their slogan was "Samways for the Highways". Isn't the mind a wonder (even in the degenerated state mine is in)
I believe like car dealers most motor cycle dealerships in the 1960s were multi-franchise until later decades. I went to Samways for Triumph spares & Mackton Motors for Aerial when they were on Osmason Ted.
Google still shows Minions as Honda.
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Yes Ken Palin's was on Osmason Road just above The Spot after they closed down it was a Thai Restaurant for many years.
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I had real trouble on my 550 removing the taper roller bearings as there is no space to get a long drift to knock them out, the bearing is the same diameter as the housing. In the end i had a mate put a bead of weld around it and it just fell out. Same problem now with Lazarus.
I removed the top bearing race at the bottom of the column today. I was very lucky with there being a small gap between the shoulder of the inside of the frame and the bearing. I found a bit of metal ( steel part of magnetic kitchen door catch) I was able to insert the metal plate into the column so it was jamed on both sides in the gap. With a long drift I gave the plate a whack close to the edge. Two taps on opposite corners it came out undamaged. An NTN 30x50x14 taper bearing race.
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I removed the top bearing race at the bottom of the column today. I was very lucky with there being a small gap between the shoulder of the inside of the frame and the bearing. I found a bit of metal ( steel part of magnetic kitchen door catch) I was able to insert the metal plate into the column so it was jamed on both sides in the gap. With a long drift I gave the plate a whack close to the edge. Two taps on opposite corners it came out undamaged. An NTN 30x50x14 taper bearing race.
A good result Ted !!
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In the morning (Thursday) Brother-in-Law is removing the bottom steering column bearing with his puller/extractor - fingers crossed it comes out easily.
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BiL visited and removed the bottom bearing from my headstock/column using what looked like a big clumsy puller - but it worked a treat!
It took longer to assemble the puller than to use it!
It was similar to the one in the link below - worked like a dream.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/403899872756
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I just use a chisel and hit them upwards, never failed to work. Most times you’re doing this you binning the race to fit a new one so it doesn’t matter if it gets trashed but I did my taper rollers the other month and they’ll be going back on, no damage.
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BiL commented on the slightly bent bump stop before we removed the bearing (rhs in photo).
Probably does not matter?
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52411306483_f6259d7a81_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nRpDre)bent bump stop (https://flic.kr/p/2nRpDre) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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As long as the bars don’t hit the tank it’ll be fine.
MOT failure (right Bryan?)
Oh. You don’t need an MOT
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Looks like most of the ones i saw back when current and if it needed mot and hit yes it would fail but as Steve said it dont and it didnt
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I even wondered if it was a poor casting as the ground sections are not identical.
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My 500/4 had the same damage to the lock stop and it was found on an MOT (albeit many years after it became mine, and the umpteenth MOT at the same dealer).
It didn't fail because the bars didn't touch the tank, although I replaced it as a matter of course when I renewed the steering head bearings as the differences in available lock left and right proved an irritation after the issue was pointed out to me.
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Are the 400 & 500 steering heads the same they look similar?
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Ted, I’m sure you are on to it, but it may pay to check the bottom yoke alignment. Damage like that is normally/usually the result of a collision. Just saying it’s worth a check while it’s off?
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Im sure 400 forks are smaller diameter Ted
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They bend if the bike falls off it's sidestsnd when stationary, not particularly strong.
It's usually the right one bent when the bike is parked with bars to left and "rolls" off the stand, or not fully stood onto stand securely.
You can heat it to bend back, but don't quench it afterwards.
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Im sure 400 forks are smaller diameter Ted
Different part numbers so yes Brian not the same.
With the bent steering stop, slight damage to the top of the column where the top nut fits - might be worth trying to find a better one.
Looks like the part number might be 53200-323-020B
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They bend if the bike falls off it's sidestsnd when stationary, not particularly strong.
It's usually the right one bent when the bike is parked with bars to left and "rolls" off the stand, or not fully stood onto stand securely.
You can heat it to bend back, but don't quench it afterwards.
I only have a Plumbers Calor Gas Torch would this heat it enough or does it need Oxyacetalyne heat?
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They bend if the bike falls off it's sidestsnd when stationary, not particularly strong.
It's usually the right one bent when the bike is parked with bars to left and "rolls" off the stand, or not fully stood onto stand securely.
You can heat it to bend back, but don't quench it afterwards.
I only have a Plumbers Calor Gas Torch would this heat it enough or does it need Oxyacetalyne heat?
MAPP gas might do it....
Matt
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MAPP gas might do it....
Matt
[/quote]
Taking into account the minor top damage if they are about in the UK a used replacement might be the best option.
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That may be hot enough as you've only to get it glowing dull red to get it moving. The very tip of the blue flame is hottest and will let you target the stop easily to try it. There's at least no risk of going over temperature, just that it may soak the heat out into the rest of the structure fast enough to prevent that bit getting hot enough. You'll soon see though if it's possible (if you do it in dim light you'd see colour change more easily) and just tap it gently with a metal hammer.
Roughly if it's red temp you should be able to gently tap it, yellow and it would push with a drift but doubt you'll get it to yellow with just gas.
It's pretty safe as the only risk is not getting warm enough to move.
If you don't want to tap the metal directly, then just place a ring spanner over the peg loosely and you can tap that to move it.
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That may be hot enough as you've only to get it glowing dull red to get it moving. The very tip of the blue flame is hottest and will let you target the stop easily to try it. There's at least no risk of going over temperature, just that it may soak the heat out into the rest of the structure fast enough to prevent that bit getting hot enough. You'll soon see though if it's possible (if you do it in dim light you'd see colour change more easily) and just tap it gently with a metal hammer.
Roughly if it's red temp you should be able to gently tap it, yellow and it would push with a drift but doubt you'll get it to yellow with just gas.
It's pretty safe as the only risk is not getting warm enough to move.
If you don't want to tap the metal directly, then just place a ring spanner over the peg loosely and you can tap that to move it.
Thanks for the information K2-K6 I will give it a try on Monday - I'm still left with the slight damage to the very top & a less than perfect thread.
Update: I'm going to fit a 550 column from Gary the top threads worry me. I can always play around with the original one later.
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Get yerself a thread file Ted, fantastic bit of kit and used surprisingly often taking these old girls apart.
Saved me heaps being able to sort threads out on danaged parts.
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Get yerself a thread file Ted, fantastic bit of kit and used surprisingly often taking these old girls apart.
Saved me heaps being able to sort threads out on danaged parts.
I bought one a couple of years ago but tbh I need to go on a course to learn how to use it never mind figure out which bit is for what thread.
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Get a thread pitch finder like you can get in a tap and dye set, check what thread you have and the different sizes working surfaces are written on each side of the file. When you use it you can feel when its working as you'll feel the vibrations and feels positive and you should see worked material dust on the vice underneath what youre working on. I only use it on a forward pushing stroke and have managed a 100% success rate. I bought a brand new ecentric hub assembly for the VFR as the owner had cross threaded the big 50odd mm nut that goes in it really badly. Twenty minutes and it was as good as ever and now sitting on the bench ready to be fitted to the new rear arm I've had painted up ready to go on with the new shock and other gubbins I've got for it. Without the file the part was junk but its now virtually brand new.certainly looks it.
Every side is for a different pitch. Again, if you're not sure, get on You tube you'd be surprised what instruction you can find. ;) :)
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Ted, I think that I have an undamaged top yoke for a 500/4. I replaced both on mine once the tester discovered that the lower was damaged on the lock stop.
If that's the case, you are welcome to it if you arrange collection from me (Norfolk). Previous experience does suggest that most carriers will allow you to organise it from your side, leaving me to simply pack it and hand to the courier.
Let me know and if you need it, I'll look in my stock of spares tomorrow.
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My top yoke is undamaged it's the column that's the problem - anyway thanks for the offer.
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The frame is now fully stripped & bits are ready for the powder coaters.
Just in the final phase of deciding which of two local firms I will use.
Still preparing the engine casings ready for painting I'll be doing the home oven bake like I did on the 400 in the next two weeks. Gasket removal is wearing me down the one under cylinder block is only half done. Onwards & upwards.
My 550 steering column arrived today from Gary 👍👍👍
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Stick with it Ted, you're absolutely flying on the prep work. It wont be forever and once you get a box of 'shiney' backform he painters/palters etc, it all feels so much more worth it.
Just ask Gary and that box of super bling he got last week, I'd have been excitedly running to the shed to see how it looked. Thats why we do it................That and we're all bonkers ;D ;D
Besides, what else would you be doing?
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Now Roo say after me I like a nice shiny Nut Brown frame.😁😁😁
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;DNope, I cant ;D
I thould we'd rescued you from the 'Brown side' ? It appears you still hold affection for 'Plop brown' ;D
I managedto be lumbered with the cheapest caron the planet whilst at colleg whichwas a CAK brown toyota starlet. It was either referred to as 'The Brown Rocket' or simply 'The Shitzster' for short!
Do you want he nasty boys to call your bike naughty names when you're not there? They might if you paint it 'baba' brown!
Just sayin....... ;) ;D ;D
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You can call it "Like a Shovel"
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paha ha haaa ;D spit of tea Ken, you swine ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Whatever happened to the "It's your bike, your build, your money, your choice ethos?"
I don't know why but brown just appeals to the retro look in my brain, when Ken sees the finished bike instead of itemising what's not original K1 he will just think - crap colour it matches the rest of the bike.
I'm not thinking outside the box more outside the closet/latrine.
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Sorry Ted, you're right, it's your build and your choice. I'll be honest and say the brown colours on the 500 and 550 were frankly awful, I hated that colour, I've had quite a few 500s and 550s and never have I bought a brown one, had black and golds and blues and purple but never brown. It's just a personal thing, whilst we are being a bit cheeky and taking the piss a little bit, that's what friends do to other friends. There's no malice in it.
However I really do think an all brown bike is a poor choice, the 500T had a brown seat and it always looked like you'd shit yourself riding it. First impressions and all that.
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Ken I'm jousting I'm not offended at all - if it wasn't for the fact that the bike colour is a brownish bronze colour I would not dream of a brown frame.
I like Apple Candy Red and Black. I take the frame tomorrow to the painters. Gawd knows what I will chose they have some colour samples so I might find something else or go for BB.
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Whatever happened to the "It's your bike, your build, your money, your choice ethos?"
Sorry mate, only yanking yer chain like Ken said bt I'm with Ken, sorry mate. Bikes should never be brown. You do your best and have whatever lovely shade you want buddy, wait till you see the metal flake ORANGE I've gone for with a cream bottom border, youll laugh yer arse off. It looks like its come from a Baha beetle beach buggy, its that offensive ;D ;D.
Its going to look like a dodgem car so get yer ammo ready.
Enjoy the painters is always really interesting and you'll learn heaps so make sure you ask loads of questions ;) 8) 8) 8)
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So if I go for black I could consider Satin instead of Gloss.
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Just to add my worthless ridicule, when I read brown….🤮🤮🤮 but then I remembered I have a brown bike🤣🤣. Cand Kent Brown is a nice colour. Nice change after white for 30 years. Each to their own Ted. 😉
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Nowt wrong with a bit of brown but that blue takes a bit of beating
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For me it's that the frame is no "looker" in design or detailed execution, and doesn't need attention drawing to it.
Nota a Bridget Bardot
[attachimg=1]
Or for balance/diversity/framework, a David Gandypants ;D
[attachimg=2]
To demonstrate framework
The bikes are lovely looking and fabulous as a whole, but having frame lighter than the paintwork just seems to draw attention to the less aesthetically appealing aspect.
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You make a good point K2-K6 about a lighter colour drawing attention to the frame.
I think I got away with it on my 400 but the 500 especially if it ever gets the original silencers is a very different kettle of fish.
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Ken I'm jousting I'm not offended at all - if it wasn't for the fact that the bike colour is a brownish bronze colour I would not dream of a brown frame.
I like Apple Candy Red and Black. I take the frame tomorrow to the painters. Gawd knows what I will chose they have some colour samples so I might find something else or go for BB.
IndexTripleS do a lovely candy red for a frame Ted, stunning. Based in Bingley IIRC.
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You make a good point K2-K6 about a lighter colour drawing attention to the frame.
I think I got away with it on my 400 but the 500 especially if it ever gets the original silencers is a very different kettle of fish.
Agree Ted, the 400 was a shift in style to more modern with tank and seat form being noticeably a step away from earlier traditional drawing of these 4 cylinder Honda. They seem to take on colours more easily as they originally were those very plain tank colours without real embellishment, also the pipe "display" being front predominantly.
The 4 pipers are all about the display of those pipes to give the character from that era. Obviously very personal choice to make and a little difficult to fully visualise at this stage. Hope you get what you want as it's always nice to own something that you can just look at and be very pleased with, especially given the cost and effort put into it.
I do like brown, with many of the original paint schemes on these having that colour pallet (technically the golds are really a lighter brown in colour spectrum) it's prediction of ultimate combination that's a trial and error.
Coincidentally I've recently bought a mtb cycle frame in that very dark metallic brown with manufacturer logo in black, a very nicely made aluminium welded structure that looks spectacularly good as it shows that element off so well.
Hope you can decide by the time you reach the paint shop :)
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Thank you everyone for talking me out of Nut Brown - when I looked at the colour sample swatch it was too light in the daylight anyways - they had no very dark browns like I fancied.
I even went to my brothers yesterday to look at one of his brown pedal cycles - an early Carlton - it looked pretty good.
In the end I chose the dullest 30% Gloss Black.
Oh NO, NO, NO, NO BORING BLACK has won ;D ;D ;D
It does give me more freedom of choice when it comes to painting the tank & side panels - at the moment I'm inclined to go for Black like Simons even though I love the Candy Reds.
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Nice one Ted! The good thing is anything will go with black, even black 😂😂
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That's a relief, Ted. I can sleep at night now. 😁
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👍👍👍👍
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technically the golds are really a lighter brown in colour spectrum
Wash your mouth out with soap and water ;D ;D ;D ;D
How very dare you!!!!!!!!
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technically the golds are really a lighter brown in colour spectrum
Wash your mouth out with soap and water ;D ;D ;D ;D
How very dare you!!!!!!!!
;D ;D yes Ken I know it must be a shock when people find out it's not real gold. A little like a pools winner's bath taps ;D
Interestingly, when you think about it these era Honda are all monochromatic originally. With black, white, chrome etc all having no "colour" and just the candy paint to offset that, giving such prominent impact to that single colour. They are really striking with this effect though.
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Finally I've finished removing all old gasket material from the engine casings - they have been cleaned inside & out using Petrol wash applied with a paint brush.
Next step is to strip the paint from the engine casings hopefully starting on Monday if it is not raining as I need to be outside when I apply & eventually hose it off directly into the sewer manhole.
I put on all my safety gear as the Industrial Grade stuff is nasty - then apply my first coat of Paramose paint stripper.
Despite all my safety gear when I finish an item & return to the house minus my gloves, mask, eye & face protection for a coffee I always feel itchy and end up washing my hands & face!
Probably a combination of fear sweat & my imagination. (I hope)
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Wow! I think I’m going to look at gold/light brown in a different light, so to speak.🤣
Ted, watch out for that lethal fumes and volatile concoction. Remember to read your COSHH sheets. 😇😇
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I'm glad you went with black Ted - at the end of the day it is all personal choice but I think when you see it finished you will be glad you went the boring route :)
Simon
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Pa POW!............Whoop whoop etc etc
"In the end I chose the dullest 30% Gloss Black.
Oh NO, NO, NO, NO BORING BLACK has won ;D ;D ;D
It does give me more freedom of choice when it comes to painting the tank & side panels - at the moment I'm inclined to go for Black like Simons even though I love the Candy Reds". Spoken li,e a true designer.
Angelic trumpets, harps and the sound of bubbling brooks, All is in balance with the universe ;D
Ted, Repeat afetr me.." I love Hondas and dont ride a Harley" ;D ;D ;D
Well done Ted, I can stop sweating ;D
As penance for my ridicule, I was informed that I recieved a speeding ticket on the M5 back from yours n Wendy's the other week, 74.9 in a 70..............miserable buggers! ;D ;D ;D
Thing is I've got 9 already but hoping some came off at the end of August, dare'nt look to check until I get home, dont want anything else to grumble about, I'm about grumped out after a vital farm system going down at 4am today, up yer get and get wet then Roo ;D
So any consolation, we're even ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
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Bit of a bummer getting a speeding ticket Roo - sorry to hear of your bad luck.
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Dont be daft mate, Its the only luck I have ;D
Pensive to look but not over worried. Might get a day out on zoom looking at lamp post, general road signage slides and a guess the speedlimit quiz for 90quid yet ;D ;D ;D 8)
Bargain ;)
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I'm lucky Roo only ever had a verbal caution during the fuel crisis back in the 1970s when it was 50 mph maximum.
That said I've had a few parking tickets - two on the same day one where the rear of my Mini was 1ft over the double yellows. I've only ever won one appeal when Wendy parked for over 30 mins in a drop off zone - she was dropping her Dad off when he accidentally touched the door lock button as she was helping him out of the passenger side. Key was in the ignition - it took me 40 mins to find the spare key and drive to Burton Hospital to unlock her car.
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If you were clocked at 74.9 Roo, your Speedo must have been showing over 80?
One hopes they nicked all the 90+ lane three owners too.
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If you were clocked at 74.9 Roo, your Speedo must have been showing over 80?
One hopes they nicked all the 90+ lane three owners too.
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And the second lane cruisers. When I rule the world, they be up against a wall and bang!
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And the second lane cruisers. When I rule the world, they be up against a wall and bang!
Glad it isn't just me ........ they are the worst - oblivious to everything and anyone
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Specially doing 45 in the roadworks and ignorining the extra large DAF in the mirrors
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Ah the dreaded Centre Lane Owners Club.
Come the day of the revolution they will be first against the wall.
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If you were clocked at 74.9 Roo, your Speedo must have been showing over 80?
One hopes they nicked all the 90+ lane three owners too.
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I generally set the cruise off the sat nav as the speedos are not that great in cars. It happens, my fault, bit of a sod mind :D
I aleays think its a waste getting them in the car and dont seem to mind so much when on the bike, always put it down to an occupational hazzard ;D
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Come on Roo, you could have got it accurate at 74.8 tick tock tick tock.....waiting. aah now you've got it ! Or 85.3 or 91.6 in the outside lane to tidy things up a bit.
Or indeed 99.6 and just under automatic ban level ;D
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Never had a decimalpoint beforeif I'm honest, they were obviously on three shredded wheat that day. If they're gonna start doing decimal points it completey takes the fun and guesswork out of the affair!
I repeat.........Miserable buggers ;D
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What happened to the guide line of 10% accuracy in speedos, the Police always used to say we allow 10% so you should have been ok up to 77mph.
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What happened to the guide line of 10% accuracy in speedos, the Police always used to say we allow 10% so you should have been ok up to 77mph.
A lot of Police forces, including here in Lincs have recently done away with, or are doing away with the 10% rule. If the speed limit is 30, they say that is the maximum speed and you should be under it anyway, not 10% over.
The 10% rule was only a recommendation anyway, which is fine if its a real Poice person that catches you but all these automatic speed trap cameras can't use their judgement.
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The 10 % rule was written into the Construction & Use regulations decades ago - effectively saying a vehicles speedometer had to be accurate within 10 %. This you means you have to exceed the 30 mph limit by 3 mph to commit an offence.
What causes confusion is they have deducted the. 10% from the figure already. Similarly the drink drive limit is 35 milligrammes of alcohol per 100 ml of blood - but only prosecute at 40 or above - the exception might occur in the case of a fatal accident when you might blow 38 on the machine when in theory they could go for impairment due to alcohol rather than over the prescribed limit.
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C&U regs have been changed, or at least thats what they told me on my naughty boys course.
Used to be +or- 10% of actual speed but now is +0 to -10%.
Trucks with tachograph have to be within 2kph at anything over 20kph, which aint gonna happen when tyre wear can be 15mm
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Well, I'm not having sense of humour failure about it just yet, I'll wait to see what the score is once I get home. I always go by the sat nav as surely being satalite monitored, info fed you woukd think it more accurate than a 15 year old VW T5 speedo? Accurate....Atomic clocks and gps ppositioning etc?.....No? OK then ::)
We'll see; like I say hopefully they'll take pity and let me sit through a day of dull slides, condesending lecturers and no fag breaks for the sum of £90 or whatever it is now. ;D
More than likely it'll be two months in a Gulag, a grand fine and a public stoning because Im not a convicted menace to society. ;D
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C&U regs have been changed, or at least thats what they told me on my naughty boys course.
Used to be +or- 10% of actual speed but now is +0 to -10%.
Trucks with tachograph have to be within 2kph at anything over 20kph, which aint gonna happen when tyre wear can be 15mm
The law makes it a clear as mud (see below) - when I last workded in Police Prosecutions in 1990 we worked on the 10% rule - then ACPO said differently on policy introducing zero tollerance via the back door. In reality most prosecutions ignored the ACPO decision & worked on the old 10% figure. This avoided arguments over older cars that had speedometers that complied with previous Con & Use Regs.
Thing is if you pay the fixed penalty then the legality of speeding is never verified as you have admitted the offence when you pay the ticket or accept a Speed awareness course. It's not until until you engage the services of a Mr Loophole and plead not guilty at the Magistrates court that the truth emerges.
United Kingdom
The amended Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 permits the use of speedometers that meet either the requirements of EC Council Directive 75/443 (as amended by Directive 97/39) or UNECE Regulation 39.[17]
The Motor Vehicles (Approval) Regulations 2001[18] permits single vehicles to be approved. As with the UNECE regulation and the EC Directives, the speedometer must never show an indicated speed less than the actual speed. However, it differs slightly from them in specifying that for all actual speeds between 25 mph and 70 mph (or the vehicles' maximum speed if it is lower than this), the indicated speed must not exceed 110% of the actual speed, plus 6.25 mph.
For example, if the vehicle is actually traveling at 50 mph, the speedometer must not show more than 61.25 mph or less than 50 mph.
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Aparently in the print at the bottom, it reads that if you want to contest it its Crown Court only and the cost deters most i should think. Ive done it, hands up, just dont ban me cos Im lovely really and need to ride my bike as it's a soul restorative measure against the brain addling condition I suffer with my diabetes.
Aoooooooouuuuuuwww,my diabetes! ::) ;D
(insert small, angelic, cherub looking remorseful etc etc
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(insert small, angelic, cherub looking remorseful etc etc
😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂
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Sod that, I say we have a public castration for Roo.
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Aparently in the print at the bottom, it reads that if you want to contest it its Crown Court only and the cost deters most i should think. Ive done it, hands up, just dont ban me cos Im lovely really and need to ride my bike as it's a soul restorative measure against the brain addling condition I suffer with my diabetes.
Aoooooooouuuuuuwww,my diabetes! ::) ;D
(insert small, angelic, cherub looking remorseful etc etc
It was always the case that you could refuse to accept the fixed penalty notice and elect for a not guilty plea at the Magistrates Court - effectly a trial at the Magistrates bench either a Stipendiary sitting alone or 3 ley Magistrates. Subsequent conviction at a Magistrates Court would be appealed at the Crown Court. I've been retired for 19 years so maybe things have changed but it is a summary offence only not an either way offence.
What can confuse folk is when they go to court it's often a Combined Court Building that houses both Magistrates Courts, Family Courts and probably now a Crown Court in the same building.
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Sod that, I say we have a public castration for Roo.
So a fair hearing from Ken then? You can get stuffed! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Sod that, I say we have a public castration for Roo.
So a fair hearing from Ken then? You can get stuffed! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Ken the Impaler - sorry I meant Impartial.
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Would that be a Kanga-Roo court? ;D
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Get yer coat K2.
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Would that be a Kanga-Roo court? ;D
I was trying my best not to write that but you gave in first and had to didnt you?............. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
'Ken The Impailer' sounds like a northern version of Game of Thrones,
From the film......
......." Na then, 'as that seen that reet 'maungy get', worrisit 'e alls is sen, Ken the podder or summut'? ..."Nah,, he's nowt, yer mean Ken The Impailer, Lord of Bling and the Rust Lands. Watch him he'll polish yer teeth aught,he's a reet bugga!'
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On the basis that there are no buckets involved, we are assuming you mean “impaler”
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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It's my lexdixlia, that and finishing at 5 this morning and having only just had my first coffee!"
sozz! ;D
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My missus nicknamed me "Ken the Impaler" for some reason, no idea why.
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No, we havent either Ken. Must be cos youre good at picking litter up with yer stick with a point on the end?
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8)
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Casings have had the first two petrol washes, next it's paint stripping, then surface preparation for painting, a full internal clean again including galleries & threads with suitable bottle brushes.
Plenty to keep me busy for a couple of weeks before I paint them.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52445870420_063e2a2a67_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nUsN6b)casings before stripping paint (https://flic.kr/p/2nUsN6b) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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Coming on nicely Ted, well done mate.
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Well done Ted - you must be pleased with the progress
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Tbh Simon I'm well in front of where I was when I stripped down the 400. It's been easier as the bike has been dismantled before. Even the centre stand pivot came out undamaged.
Progress will come to a crawl as the weather gets cooler in the garage. I plan to improve on surface preparation - something you can't rush before I start up the rattle cans.
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Making good progress, Im enjoying watching this.
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Ted, I'm sure all this hard work will be worth it! ;) Great progress.
Matt
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Picked the frame up from the powder coaters today - good thing is you can still see the stamped frame number.
Used a different powder coater this time RPT Engineering Ltd at Somercoates DE55 4LS Cost with VAT was £190 including stands, swing arm, battery box & rear frame grab rail part.
Not as thickly applied this time so well pleased with the 30% gloss black finish.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52460287291_1968ea1893_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nVJFHV)500 K1 frame (https://flic.kr/p/2nVJFHV) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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Looks good Ted. I like the low gloss look.
Might have been better in brown ;D
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Beige would have looked better but loving the black Ted, well done mate
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Looks good Ted. I like the low gloss look.
Might have been better in brown ;D
I will save the high gloss black for the Tank & Panels (eventually).
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Beige would have looked better but loving the black Ted, well done mate
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
BEIGE how very dare you Roo it was Nut Brown !
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Looking great Ted, rapid progress! Good that you've found a better powder coater.
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What's going on with the bottom rail, near the footrest mount Ted? Looks like something is on it.
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Angle of the photo - the background is front wheel ramp clamp?
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That does look well ...... I've had a spare swing arm done and it had to be gloss to match the rest but much prefer the slightly less gloss finish
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A little more progress this afternoon - rear swing arm Brass bushes fitted plus shocker mount bushes - a couple of days in the freezer made the first 75% of the fitting easy - then use alloy drift tool and a big rubber hammer they fitted far too easily.
Spent a good 30 minutes looking for the rear brake pivot that I finally found in a takeaway box with rear brake pivot written on it. Work has ground to a standstill now until I find the return spring that was not in the box.
DS say its discontinued so another day for that search party - I have a feeling I put it somewhere too safe to find easily - keeps me fit I guess looking in the same places as before several times over.
Run out of beer so having to drink some Pineapple & Passion Fruit Cider (4%) to make do for tonight.
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Is it on the brake rod? That's where I usually put it.
Enjoy your cider, I'll have one too! 🍻
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Is it on the brake rod? That's where I usually put it.
Enjoy your cider, I'll have one too! 🍻
No - I am looking for a circular spring I take it 46514-323-020 I assume - found the pedal & the rod definitely a job for another day I must have looked in three shelves of boxes plus umpteen big boxes on the floor four times over - at least as you progress it gets easier with fewer parts to look through..
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Fueled by Cider & a can of Mango flavoured Gin & Tonic I've had one last search - I found the missing brake pedal return spring in a box I had looked through at least 4 times that mainly contained old 400 parts!
That just leaves one gearshift fork spring left to find that against all logic shot into the air as I was dismantling the gearbox - at least you can buy them cheap enough from Mr Silver.
Grasshoper will sleep well tonight oh venerable sohc Master.
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Ted, remember the first thing on the line is that spring andoperating arm, you cant get it in after swingarm fittedtee shirt and video!
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Looking great Ted and you must be pleased with your progress. Just one observation on the powder coat job, which looks mighty fine by the way. Is that surface corrosion on the bottom r/h side rail between the foot rest and lower engine mount or just an optical illusion? Just wondering about a potential structural weak point in the frame that I have absolutely no knowledge off, but others on the forum may wish to comment…..just in the interests of safety you understand.
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I'm pretty sure it's a combination of poor lighting & odd reflections.
I will look again and post a better picture - the frame looks like a scrapper when you zoom in. :-\
It was mainly dust plus copperslip you can still see some of it - there not dents in the tubing its a reflection of the rubber mat!
:(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52465060778_7e664d02c5_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nWa9Hq)PXL_20221030_123343607 (https://flic.kr/p/2nWa9Hq) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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Thanks looks just fine to me Ted. Looking forward to the progress photos.
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Don't forget to grease the inside of all those bolt tubes Ted or it's just a place for rust to start.
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Don't forget to grease the inside of all those bolt tubes Ted or it's just a place for rust to start.
I will Ken, I even grease inside the headstock between the bearings and spray waxoyl inside the frame where I can - a 50 year old bike needs all the tlc I can give it - until I shuffle this mortal coil then the next custodian/owner takes over.
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On the end of the swinging arm are 2 small vent holes, I intend to fill my swinging arm with Waxoyl and then drain it out after a couple of hours. Prevention is better than trying to repair.
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On the end of the swinging arm are 2 small vent holes, I intend to fill my swinging arm with Waxoyl and then drain it out after a couple of hours. Prevention is better than trying to repair.
That's what I have done ... the chassis tins usually come with a very small long tube to aid getting right inside
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Might be a fire hazard when it's powder coated in the future.
I attended a garage fire back in the 1979/80 where an enthusiast was carrying out some electric welding on his beautiful Vauxhall PA Cresta. The POs Waxoyl caught fire gutting the interior. The poor chap was in tears it was in that lovely two tone Silver Sage combination.
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You could always use Zinc paint instead Ted.
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Ted, remember the first thing on the line is that spring andoperating arm, you cant get it in after swingarm fittedtee shirt and video!
Fitted Tee Shirt & Video ?
Anyways the return spring I found is not the correct one - it's the old one for my 400 that I replaced.
Done another sweep of the garage and failed to find the brake pedal spring plus the stop lamp switch they are together somewhere no doubt.
Can't fit the swing arm until I find it or a replacement!
Found the rear brake switch & its spring with the ignition wiring - no trace of the brake pedal return spring afetr another fruitless 40 minutes looking in everyone of my parts boxes.......sigh.
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Did you put it back on the pivot arm Ted? Confusion caused by my dyslexic dumfone should be space between fitted and tee as in i got the tee shirt and in the video for that mistake! Dont think i have a spare for that but will look, trouble is i am away thurs morn till sun night so cant look till weekend after
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Did you put it back on the pivot arm Ted? Confusion caused by my dyslexic dumfone should be space between fitted and tee as in i got the tee shirt and in the video for that mistake! Dont think i have a spare for that but will look, trouble is i am away thurs morn till sun night so cant look till weekend after
I have no other avenues open to me at the moment - in the meantime I will look in all the same places again unless I have a light bulb moment at 3.00 am. >:(
Prime suspects are one of the Chihuahua Pups I've searched their bed & looked in all the places they might have hidden it.
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I’d replace it Ted, but before you do try to evaluate the actual wear. This photo provides a simple visual check. The one in the background is a new Kawasaki item, the one in the foreground is 17k miles.
If you do replace the chain it would be useful for you to post a similar comparison just out of interest.
A bit late in the day Phillip but this is my tank track from the 500.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52497418727_de861cd074_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nZ1ZB6)Teds primary drive chain (https://flic.kr/p/2nZ1ZB6) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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2 links touching, that's almost new Ted. A new one won't touch anywhere until you press down on the centre, at a pinch you could re-use that. I'd still replace the primary damper rubbers though unless they feel nice.
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I’m not so sure. Observe the comparison between my 17k mileage and new chains. Though it’s definitely not goosed.
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Oh and thanks for remembering to post the photo, Ted. Unfortunately I can’t advise on whether to reuse or not. £50 would buy 2.5 bottles of Jamesons in our supermarket 😀
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I'm replacing it anyway.
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With the Jamesons?
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That'll go with a whoosh.....................Phil does ;) ;D
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😁😁😁. Has that box arrived yet?
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No, nothing ye tPhil, ever hopeful. You did drop it at the Post Office and not Argos or the Sue Ryder shop did you.
Or leave it at the Cross Keys? ;D
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Dunno, but I stopped of at the Blacksmiths Arms at 12.30 and only emerged in the dark. Pretty sure I made the post office, but then again……
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Look for any shop on the route back with a red sign over it, you'd have thought it was the Post Office due to inebriation. It will still be sat on the counter.
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Good skills mate, it'll be about somewhere ;D
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Ha, success. Deffo the PO as I’ve found the postal receipt. Must have been sent by push bike if the cost of postage is anything to go by.
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I'll start rattling the corn tin in the morning and see if the pidgeon carrying it wil come down and drop it off ;D
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As it was unusually dry & warm today I kitted up like something out of Quatermass and did a final paint strip of the lower crank casing.
All being well I want to get it painted & baked in the oven. Spent over two hours doing a full oven clean. He- he brownie points with a hidden agenda - can't risk contamination.
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Have you painted the cases yet Ted?
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I've painted the upper case only at the moment it needs a finishing coat?
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I tend to go for a mist and two successive top coats, but I’m no expert on durability. Perhaps others can share their experiences.
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I have fitted the two outer races into the steering column today - made up a nifty tool using threaded bar & alloy drift discs to avoid all the hammering especially for the bottom race as the frame has the back wheel in place to support everyting safely. Fitted the top bearing first - partially in place so it was square then pulled into place - repeated for the bottom race - tool was easy to tighten up. One of the drift discs was just the right diameter to fit in the lower column & seat on the bearing.
Both races were fresh out of the Freezer when fitting.
Photo is after the bearings have been pulled into place - slack in the threaded bar so top is not shown as central but it was when tightening the nuts.
Probably was not needed but to help with centralisation I put some big washers in place to help with general centering of the tool - small enough to fit through the races but big enough to help.
Always nice when things go to plan.
Note to Ken the outer races are the right way up btw!
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52526719179_60cb896c46_m.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2o2BaBi)Drift set (https://flic.kr/p/2o2BaBi) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52526922340_7bb0a5f8f3_m.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2o2Cd15)Bearing press tool (https://flic.kr/p/2o2Cd15) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52526719149_e334fb9808_m.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2o2BaAM)Tool in place (https://flic.kr/p/2o2BaAM) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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Looking good Ted !!
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If that frame number is correct why's it got a K0 number beginning with 1 when it should be beginning with a 2 if it's a K1?
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0
If that frame number is correct why's it got a K0 number beginning with 1 when it should be beginning with a 2 if it's a K1?
I have no idea - Bryan might know the answer - it's not the original alloy plate as is obviousy been hand engraved from a blank to match the headstock stamping.
The headstock stamped frame number it's the same as the V5 1030*** first regd 23-3-1972. So what does it being a KO change assuming you are correct?
The engine number starts with a 2 - I was advised it was not the original engine by Bryan.
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AFAIK the K1 had the frames and engine numbers starting with a 2 not a 1 which was how you could tell from the K0 version. It's possible it's had a new frame fitted at some point OR it could have had a K0 frame fitted by the factory but I'm doubtful about that, the frames were essentially the same so it's not a big issue, just a curiosity. Have you checked the frame itself for the stamped number on the headstock? to make sure they match.
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Ken, the frame and V5 came to me in a "job lot" from either London or Liverpool, cant remember which as i did a grand tour collecting bikes and bits after putting an add in Classic Bike for parts wanted and getting a few answers. Absolutely no chance of remembering where from as it was before i got together with my now wife and weve been together over 20 years.
I engraved and fitted the vin plate as the stampings were not that "heavy" and i reckoned they would be damn near invisible whe$ powdered. I thought the 1 was K0 and 1 and the 2 was K2, which we never officialy got but Honda carried on the numerical order by year, i will look in my id book, which admitedley is US and post a pic of the page later.
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AFAIK the K1 had the frames and engine numbers starting with a 2 not a 1 which was how you could tell from the K0 version. It's possible it's had a new frame fitted at some point OR it could have had a K0 frame fitted by the factory but I'm doubtful about that, the frames were essentially the same so it's not a big issue, just a curiosity. Have you checked the frame itself for the stamped number on the headstock? to make sure they match.
The stamped headstock frame number matches the V5.
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AFAIK the K1 had the frames and engine numbers starting with a 2 not a 1 which was how you could tell from the K0 version. It's possible it's had a new frame fitted at some point OR it could have had a K0 frame fitted by the factory but I'm doubtful about that, the frames were essentially the same so it's not a big issue, just a curiosity. Have you checked the frame itself for the stamped number on the headstock? to make sure they match.
The stamped headstock frame number matches the V5.
The V5 only reflects the numbers someone informed DVLA of. If you inform DVLA of an engine or frame change, they change the numbers on the system and the V5 is changed to reflect that. It doesn't mean the engine and/or frame numbers are the originals they left the factory with.
Edit.. I should have said does it really matter in your case anyway Ted? Its not as if you are restoring a bike to standard spec or concours. My Mongrel build Millie is a 550 K3 frame with an 550 F2 engine and I don't loose any sleep over it. If it were a miss matched pair on one of my 'proper bikes' then I would worry 😁😁😁
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On the riveted on frame plate the date of manufacture has been entered as 8/71.
You are right Julie I'm not fussed if the frame is a K0 or a K1 I'm happy that the frame is in good solid condition clearly having benefitted by Bryan getting the frame powder coated plus it's been his bike since June 2003.
If it is a K0 frame will this make any difference when obtaining parts? Are there easy ways to see the difference as regards the frame design?
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On the riveted on frame plate the date of manufacture has been entered as 8/71.
You are right Julie I'm not fussed if the frame is a K0 or a K1 I'm happy that the frame is in good solid condition clearly having benefitted by Bryan getting the frame powder coated plus it's been his bike since June 2003.
If it is a K0 frame will this make any difference when obtaining parts? Are there easy ways to see the difference as regards the frame design?
So if its got a rivited VIN plate on it it's a USA frame as we didn't have the VIN plates on UK bikes until 1976. The easiest way to tell if its a K0 or K1 frame is to show us a photo of the seat lock assembly as they are totally different K0 to K1.
Here is our K0 seat lock. The K1 has a totally different design, it's a normal plunger type lock.
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
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Whilst Julie is 100% right in pointing out that the biggest difference between the K0 and K1 was the seat lock I’m not sure if the K1 seat lock bracket wouldn’t also fit the K0 and vice versa. There is a slight change in the part number for the frame from 130B to 140B but whether the difference was in the positioning of the holes for that bracket or something else I couldn’t say.
My comment wasn’t meant to criticise the frame, it was to ask why when the title says K1 is it wearing a K0 frame, seemed odd. I’d imagine an 8/71 build date would also mean it’s a K0 rather than a K1.
It seems that K0 models are worth more as well, so a set of K0 cases may increase its value, need an engine number beginning with a 1 though Ted. The K1 engines all began with a 2. Strangely the K2 didn’t start with a 3, which you think would be the case. Both my K1 bikes have frames and engine numbers beginning with a 2 and the L reg bike has a build date of 5/72, so your frame being much earlier than that must mean a K0.
It’s not important as you say though, it’s just odd.
I had 2 sets of engine cases spare from way back in the 70-80s and both began with a 1, which is very odd as I never had or broke a K0 but I did buy quite a lot of broken engines back then but how they both ended up coming from a model that was never officially imported into the UK is strange.
I still have a set spare if you ever want to make the bike into a K0.
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Yes the seat lock brackets interchange, it was fitted with a later type lock as the best recovered seat i had was a later type, dont know what was original as nothing was on it.
Julie, i fitted the vin plate and had to drill holes for it as i said above the stampings would disapear under powder coat.
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Yes the seat lock brackets interchange, it was fitted with a later type lock as the best recovered seat i had was a later type, dont know what was original as nothing was on it.
Julie, i fitted the vin plate and had to drill holes for it as i said above the stampings would disapear under powder coat.
Ah yes, I've just read about the VIN tag on a previous post Bryan, sorry about that. Ted, on the V5 what date does it give as being registered in UK?
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FWIW the later seat lock does not quite sit flat on the frame like my 400 one does.
It needs a little fettling on one area before I fit it back on.
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Yes the seat lock brackets interchange, it was fitted with a later type lock as the best recovered seat i had was a later type, dont know what was original as nothing was on it.
Julie, i fitted the vin plate and had to drill holes for it as i said above the stampings would disapear under powder coat.
Ah yes, I've just read about the VIN tag on a previous post Bryan, sorry about that. Ted, on the V5 what date does it give as being registered in UK?
The V5 shows B. Date of first registration as 23 03 1972
[B,1]Date of first registration in the UK as 23 03 1972
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FWIW the later seat lock does not quite sit flat on the frame like my 400 one does.
It needs a little fettling on one area before I fit it back on.
Could be the bracket is slightly bent Ted, or of course it could also be the difference between the K0 and K1 frames coming into play. Hard to tell without testing another bracket and seeing if that does the same.
With a first reg date of March 72 it looks like the bike was what is called a "Grey Import".
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FWIW the later seat lock does not quite sit flat on the frame like my 400 one does.
It needs a little fettling on one area before I fit it back on.
Could be the bracket is slightly bent Ted, or of course it could also be the difference between the K0 and K1 frames coming into play. Hard to tell without testing another bracket and seeing if that does the same.
With a first reg date of March 72 it looks like the bike was what is called a "Grey Import".
Agreed, its a 71 build registered in UK in March 72.Therefore its either an original UK K0 or most likely a grey import.
There are a lot of differences between K0 and K1 but as you say Ted, you're building a mongrel, so it doesn't matter. If you were to try and restore it to a stock UK K0, it will cost a fortune. It also shouldn't have a VIN plate, but I can see Bryan's reason for fitting one.
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I'd agree with that Ted. If the bike already had a lot of K0 parts fitted then I'd say it may be worthwhile to convert it back but that doesn't appear to be the case. The differences whilst not extreme were subtle but easy to spot if you knew what to look for, most people don't and TBH it doesn't matter anyway.
Officially Honda never imported the K0, I asked back in the late 70s when on a course at Honda and spoke to a few of the guys there, they said that Honda only ever officially imported 3 500K0s. One black, one brown and one gold, these were all for press testing. One was written off whilst on test, one was scrapped (no one knew why) and one was sold to a member of staff, they seemed to think it was the brown one. So unless yours is that one (and with that frame number it's almost impossible, the first ones imported would have had very low frame numbers I'd imagine) it's not meant to be here and was clearly meant for the European market. However interest in the 500 back then was high so some dealers imported some from contacts on the continent and hence were called grey imports. There won't have been that many imported like that as expense for one would not have made it commercially viable especially as the K1 was already on it's way. A genuine UK first registered 500K0 is a bit of a rarity so I'd be proud of that, not many about especially after all these years.
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Restore it to original Ted….feel the pain.😉
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Restore it to original Ted….feel the pain.😉
;D ;D
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Restore it to original Ted….feel the pain.😉
;D ;D
Don't do it Ted 😁😁😁😁, it'll feel like a punishment to you as most of the UK model bits are unobtainable and if you can find them, there will be far to many zeros on the end of the price to make it worth your while, you'd have to have the frame stripped and re painted for a start 🤣🤣🤣.
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Are you seriously saying that a powder coated frame wouldn't be acceptable on a restoration because it's not the way it was from Honda? That would open a HUGE can of worms if that's the case.
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I second that Ted, I was only laughing at Phll for being a bugger again. Dont listen to him Ted, he's a wrong un! ;D
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I think Phil was a Tower Of London torturer in a previous life, share the pain seems to be his motto ;D ;D ;D
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Are you seriously saying that a powder coated frame wouldn't be acceptable on a restoration because it's not the way it was from Honda? That would open a HUGE can of worms if that's the case.
Noooo Ken, I'm not saying that, I didn't imply that and I didn't mean that, we have all our frames powder coated. But Ted went for a more satin finish IIRC which would be a no no.
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Yeah but it's black, does that really matter. We do our yokes in satin and I'm fairly sure they came in gloss for instance or vice versa. We have repaints where we have the stripes painted on and not transfers, we use stainless spokes instead of crap normal steel ones that rust for fun, loads of examples like that.
IMO, we place far too much emphasis on it being exactly like it was when it came out of the factory and frankly that's virtually impossible, unless you've got one stored in a packing crate somewhere there will always be something that's not original fitment. If it works, look right and goes and stops right that's good enough for me.
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It may be good enough for you Ken but not for everyone.
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Apologies, Ted. I just can’t help myself. Julie gives good advice IMHO.
Press on though. Personally I favour the satin look, but fully appreciate it wouldn’t suit the ‘original’ restorers code. And so it shouldn’t.
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It was nearly nut brown too ;D ;D ;D
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Don't mention 'Nut Brown', you'll set him off again.........
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I’m known for my lack of good taste…but ‘Nut Brown’? FM, not on yours or anbodyeleses Nelly.
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I should have ignored everyone here - gone for Nut Brown as I wanted to - to hell with originality.😤😤😤
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Well ‘nut brown’ would have been about as ‘original’ as they come😁😁😁.
Come on, Ted. Looking forward to the next instalment. Good to see you have sorted the head races.
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I should have ignored everyone here - gone for Nut Brown as I wanted to - to hell with originality.😤😤😤
😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂
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Ted, I know it’s probably not a popular choice, but in all seriousness I thought the brown paint job on that recent resto looked really good- certainly ‘period’’ as they say. Would be an excellent compromise?
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Currently stripping & painting the steering column & alloy top head.
They will all be painted black.
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Yeah but it's black, does that really matter. We do our yokes in satin and I'm fairly sure they came in gloss for instance or vice versa. We have repaints where we have the stripes painted on and not transfers, we use stainless spokes instead of crap normal steel ones that rust for fun, loads of examples like that.
IMO, we place far too much emphasis on it being exactly like it was when it came out of the factory and frankly that's virtually impossible, unless you've got one stored in a packing crate somewhere there will always be something that's not original fitment. If it works, look right and goes and stops right that's good enough for me.
I'll drink to that! 👍🍻
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I am doing so. A very nice Jamesons Black Barrel…lovely.
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Oops, that’s not a scotch😳
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I am doing so. A very nice Jamesons Black Barrel…lovely.
Slainte Mhath!
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Oops, that’s not a scotch
WHISKY!!!
Bloody scotch, are you a Sherman?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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😁😁😁😁😉
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I'm on my second Goblet of Black Cactus Schnapps.🌵🌵🌵
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👍👍👍
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I'm on my second Goblet of Black Cactus Schnapps.
Goblet, that instils a great mental image of you Ted, supping that
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I have a variety of Pewter Goblets the metal somehow adds to the drinking experience.
Many folk think it makes everything taste metallic.
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My old dear had loads exactly for that reason, she said mulled wine was lovely out of them. Possibly the amount ofmulled wine that brought that decision on but I couldn't say ;D
She did swear by them though...
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It may be good enough for you Ken but not for everyone.
When I said it looks right I meant does it still look original, would anyone not an anal expert comment on something not fitted as standard?
If you've just spent the last year or so restoring a bike to OE spec and someone came along and started to rip it to bits how would that make you feel. Comments like, Those tyres are wrong, should be Bridgestones, the master cylinder wasn't quite that shape, is that a copy, you've repainted the handlebar switchgear and the colour of the letters is the wrong shade of red etc. You'd quite rightly tell them that all that doesn't matter so long as it looks the part, tyres were changed because new tyres work where the Bridgestones were just ditch finders.
I prefer to build mine so they look original but I don't like to repeat the mistakes Honda made in the first place, rear dampers that worked like Pogo sticks, it was common in those days for the speedo or tacho needle to bounce around like mad, would we settle for that now? Do we have to accept a wiring loom where all the power runs through one fuse, if that blows you stop. I had a mate back in the late 70s who was killed by just this thing happening, fast lane of the motorway, doing 70 or so, not speeding, just tootling along like you do, fuse blew for some reason, we never found out why, he suddenly slows as the bike loses power, car behind doesn't expect it and hits him up the rear end at around 100mph, catapulting him off the bike, his helmet flew off and he landed on his face, ripped most of his face off, he was just 17. His dad had to identify him in the morgue and it broke him, first of our gang to die and to this day I still get upset remembering him and the waste of that life for such a simple reason. Car driver got off BTW even though he was speeding it was deemed an accident.
I think it's arrogant of anyone to try and inflict their ways of restoring on anyone, so it might be the wrong black, who cares, it's black. Would you really notice if it was next to you at the lights? BTW Ted, we'd notice a nut brown frame, just saying ;D ;D However if Ted had done the frame nut brown I might not have agreed with the choice but I'd certainly have admired the will to say "sod it, it's my bike I'll do it so I like it, if you don't, well hard luck"
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Not a load of progress but fairy steps in the colder climate.
Just painted my top fork bridge clamps - I'm happy with the outcome - less than perfect like the owner - but good enough for me.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52545056676_5d62147d50_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2o4e9H3)fork clamps (https://flic.kr/p/2o4e9H3) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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Well done Ted,
looking at that top clamp on 'the net' last night, it's clear that the PG who had my 'heap' had cut the middle out to make two separate clamps. :o He's then ground them down badly, like a threepenny bit and tried to hide it with matt paint......eeesh! ;D Theyre smaller than the lower half of the clamp they sit on he's taken that much off........Lookslike I've doneit ;D ;D
I knew they were for the bin but hadn't offered them up until last night when I pulled the bag out to have a look. They were chucked in the 'to fettle later' bin. As I'm still waiting for the frame from the coaters............Covid at their end................I said I'd hang on ;) :o I'm just prepping all the faff bits like this and sorting switches and the like...
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So where were the four warning lamps then mounted?
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No idea, there weren't any on it when I got her, you must have underestimated how much of one it was when I reffered to it as a heap................I'm not sure anybody else would have spent this much time and money on her as I have, they'd have probably poked it back onto ebay and slithered off ;D......She was proper on her last legs, Ted.
I must be bonkers! ;D ;D ;D
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I think we are all bonkers here Roo we spend more on restoring an old bike than they are worth when completed (aside from a few Dodos). It's a labour of love Roo and we all know how stupid we can be when in love.😁😁😁
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It'd be cheaper being a junky! ;D ;D
You're very right though. very right! :D
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But Roo unlike a Junkie we have something tangable when we are done - we can ride it - admire it with all its faults - I told Wendy my 400 is my funeral plan when I have no longer got a pulse. Think positive Roo its all about the build.
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Imnot negative nor ever have been,not sure where this accusation has come from......Pissed right off and super frustrated but not negative. I cant. Ive got a bike in a billion bits,I havent time! ;)
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The 4 warning lights are on the central panel between the clocks on the 550 Ted. Only the 750/500 got them across the bars like that.
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Ah,I see what you mean now, I thought you meant on my crate when I got it not on the 550 per se.I'd have said, between the clocks. My bad, didnt read it right ;)
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Purists look away now - my DS Chrome finished plastic headlamp bowl & aftermaket rim kit arrived today so I was able to fit a neat Land Rover LED headlamp unit without any alterations.
Thanks for the tip Allankelly & the link. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/303960372602
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52574242150_e20104026d_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2o6NJwS)500 LED headlamp (https://flic.kr/p/2o6NJwS) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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Like that Ted. Novel and functional👏
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Give over Ted, that's ace and solves an issue rather well. I have the standard shell and lens for mine but looking at others too for ideas as it looks like half a beach ball, its massive!
I'd say yours is spot on mate and an easy win too, ;) :)
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Go for it Ted ;D
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Oh plus the sidelight is a slightly dated but was trendy Halo / Angel eyes type.
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\halo, how posh!
Get you! ;) :D
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\halo, how posh!
Get you! ;) :D
Not so much posh as Christmas themed - Halo / Angel. ;D ;D ;D
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;D
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Does that have DOT (DOT approved) stamp on the lamp, if not you might struggle to get it through the MOT if it needs one.
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Does that have DOT (DOT approved) stamp on the lamp, if not you might struggle to get it through the MOT if it needs one.
Yes it has the DOT SAE E9 stamp on the outer edge it has Osram LED's similar cheaper ones do not.
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Spent a lot of time bimbling about sorting out what bits were where - putting some parts in Evaporust etc.
It's much warmer today so I've been doing some work on both lower fork legs cleaning out the threads & the sediment inside the legs.
I need to do some more polishing on the right fork leg as ther left one is much shinier at the moment.
Once I am happy with the polishing of the fork legs I can get the front suspension fitted with a view to fitting the front wheel for better frame stability.
When the cold weather returns I can do some soldering on the Pilot light loom now I have some better lamp holders & rubber shroud fitting thingys.
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AFAIK Paul so long as it passes the beam pattern test it should pass the MOT. Same for when you fit an LED bulb into a regular headlight. Mine passed no problem this year.
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Your not thinking of doing the double disc conversion Ted? Makes the front end look more balanced IMO and of course braking is improved.
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Your not thinking of doing the double disc conversion Ted? Makes the front end look more balanced IMO and of course braking is improved.
Sounds like an expensive alteration Ken.
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Depends on what you already have Ted, you need a spare caliper and disc, a set of 550 sliders, a longer set of disc bolts and another part of the brake line. Not that expensive if you already have some of these. There's a little work involved as well adapting the speedo drive.
For me it's a good investment, if it stops you quicker it could just avoid an accident and those can be very expensive.
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Thats why I did it, for both those reasons. Looks far nicer for a bike of that size and braking is ony going to be improved as a result which just may be the deciding factor in a situation. The speedo drive isnt a biggie once you get your head round it. I had a spare disc floating about so apart from already having that the whole set up stands me at about 70 odd quid. Cheap win really.
I have a spare set of 550 fork lowers, and some 500 sliders that have just been re ground at Philpots and faultless, going on ebay after crimbo but if you need anything you have first dibbs Ted, goes without saying ;)
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Don't forget you need to space out the caliper bolt on the new side Roo, if you don't the arm sits at an angle and the pads wear funny. It's because the new caliper mount sits ON the mudguard brace whereas the old side it sits under the brace, you also need to ensure the arm sits directly above the disc like the other side does. IIRC you need some washers between the top mount and the brace and a thicker one on the bottom mount bolt. I seem to recall I put the new caliper onto the new arm complete with pads, pushed it onto the rear of the disc not the front as that movable and left the bolts out, swung the arm until it was level with the mounting bolts and measured the gap. I ended up welding the washers to the brace and then having it chromed so I wouldn't lose them if I dismantled the front end.
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Yeah, I'm aware of the need for all that, I was leaving ot to the fitting stages. It'son the list but for the bare bones of the conversion, like yio said, its pretty cheap in comparrison to what you get from the deal. I still have a bench full of bits but I get the frame tomorrow for definite, spoke to the chap today and going over for 3pm tommorow.........whoop whoop!
I have all the 'fitting joy' and thinking time to come. Looking forward to it ;)
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Depends on what you already have Ted, you need a spare caliper and disc, a set of 550 sliders, a longer set of disc bolts and another part of the brake line. Not that expensive if you already have some of these. There's a little work involved as well adapting the speedo drive.
For me it's a good investment, if it stops you quicker it could just avoid an accident and those can be very expensive.
I have no spare caliper,disc or 550 sliders not too woried about the look / accident risk for the mileage I am likely to cover. The Brembro pads certainly feel good so I'll keep that bit original.
Thinking about improvements / mods from the original has made me re-think the exhuast situation. I was minded to fit the original four pipe system to keep the period look and gloss over the cost. That got me thinking about the owners who went from twin pipe to 4 into 1 systems as they performed & sounded better.
Just thought I would put that out there for added public humiliation to add to the Nut Brown saga - I still have regrets about settling for boring black.
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Wasnt sound and performane in most cases Ted was purely cost as a motad or dunstall was less than half a honda system
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Thinking about improvements / mods from the original has made me re-think the exhuast situation. I was minded to fit the original four pipe system to keep the period look and gloss over the cost. That got me thinking about the owners who went from twin pipe to 4 into 1 systems as they performed & sounded better.
Just thought I would put that out there for added public humiliation to add to the Nut Brown saga - I still have regrets about settling for boring black.
I think after all the time and work you are putting in .... the original style system would be icing on the cake :)
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I’ve had a few 4 into 1 systems Ted, a Piper system that howled like a Banshee having a prostate exam, had to remove it to change the oil filter though and it rusted for fun. A Yoshimura that was much quieter until you wound it up but it didn’t stop you working on the engine etc.
For best performance though the OE system takes some beating, sure the Yoshi performed better but only at the top end of the rev range, it lagged at mid range though, the Piper sounded better but it also had a hole in mid range, the 4 into 4 system looks awesome, it performs excellently and it just suits the look of the bike better.
For me it’s the exhausts that make the 500 so appealing, there’s just something about them that floats my boat in a BIG way.
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Purists look away now - my DS Chrome finished plastic headlamp bowl & aftermaket rim kit arrived today so I was able to fit a neat Land Rover LED headlamp unit without any alterations.
Thanks for the tip Allankelly & the link. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/303960372602
Ted, nice h/lamp option. I want to build a bobber from many old Triumph 3T bits I have and this would fit the bill perfectly. Will look good on your 500.
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Guys, spacing the calliper….I don’t recall having to do that? Do you mean spacing the caliper carrier pivot mounting on the fork bottom mounting? I found using 2no 6mm washers sorted that. I’ll turn permanent spacers at some time in the future. Apologies if I’ve read that wrongly it’s just that I’ve got eye floaters again.
A work mate back in 1978/79 would give me a lift on his black 500 from York to Leeds. His was equipped with a Marvin 4:1. To my young ears it sounded mint, it really howled at the top end, though he did complain of flat spots. He eventually changed back to standard. And I agree with Ken, the original 4 pipe appearance is best for the standard bike.
I’d even thought about putting 4 pipes on the F2, but the cost was prohibitive for an uncertain and unconventional appearance. I’ve gone for Dekelvic which is ok, but no substitute for standard.
Speaking of standard pipes, my CB175 pipes rotted out in 1977. I tried all kinds of arrangements, but in order to make it run properly I eventually had to dig deep for standard replacements.
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I guess the market is to small for Dekelvic to make a SS four tail pipe system.
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I put Dunstall “silencers” on my CB175 in 1975(ish).
My mum always said she could hear me from the next village.
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It's the long relatively small bore primary pipes that give the engine It's low to mid rpm torque. Mostly removed on 4:1 system, but doesn't need to be.
A friend drag raced a 750 years ago for which we tried sets of pipes, easily the fastest through initial phase and rpm range was a 4:1 with long thin primary pipes into short, stubby big bore less restricted "silencer" this for road orientated motor tune and not a really high revving race motor.
It takes alot of combustion volume/rpm to really make use of big bore short primary "headers" and mostly way outside capacity on bikes of this era.
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I guess the market is to small for Dekelvic to make a SS four tail pipe system.
Yes, Ted. Too small market for meaningful competition.
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I put Dunstall “silencers” on my CB175 in 1975(ish).
My mum always said she could hear me from the next village.
Yes, I know all about that. I used some cheap reverse cone megaphones from that outfit in Rochdale- Unity Ill equipped or something like that. The noise was horrific. My mum asked me to coast or push the bike the last hundred yards after 10pm. I was able to reach back and place my boots over the ends so rarely bothered.
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I had a Marving on my 500 in the mid 70's and my mate could hear it start from 7 miles away, even then i had to pack it with fibreglass to get a test pass
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Fibreglass or Brillo pads…those were the days.
I recall trying to pass from France to Switzerland in about 1980. We were sat patiently waiting for the border guard to put down his paper and coffee. While we waited a guy screamed up on a Yamaha 350 c/w expansion pipes. The BG dropped his paper and spilled his coffee in his haste to stop this hooligan entering Antiseptic land (the Swiss had and has very strict noise abatement laws), but before he could scream halt(in Swiss) the lad neatly navigated the barriers and sped off in a cloud of two stroke smoke. I got the distinct impression it was a regular occurrence. It’s the only funny thing I’ve witnessed in Switzerland. The guy who should have been stood at the barrier was having a leak and returned to a very red faced and loud colleague.
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So after an absence over Christmas as SWMBO is out so I've spent just under an hour this afternoon on each of my fork legs.
Used the light green then the grey little discs & finished up with some blue paste on my buffing wheel to see how they look spending just 5-10 mins with the buffing wheel using the lightest pressure as I don't want a fork leg in my face.
Clearly there are some deepish marks on the legs after 50 years but to hell with getting out every little imperfection - I will polish them some more but tbh I see the marks as a sort of Patina of age.
..
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52595738482_8357b90843_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2o8GUDh)500 fork legs (https://flic.kr/p/2o8GUDh) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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They’ve come up well Ted. It’s been a while since I checked In. I’m sure all the work will be worth the effort. Looking forward to seeing it finished.
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It's all looking good Ted, keep it going mate.
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Oven bake today.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52632263747_1f325c1e7d_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2obW7ke)PXL_20230117_092117239 (https://flic.kr/p/2obW7ke) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52632263712_9e60d4f007_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2obW7jC)PXL_20230117_140852031 (https://flic.kr/p/2obW7jC) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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Looking ok that Ted.
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Looking ok that Ted.
Thanks Ken its a AEG fan oven. ;D ;D ;D
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A fine job Ted, think you can just about get a pan of oven chips in under there too and keep everyone happy :)
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Naaah don't want the engine smelling of chips.😁
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Besides, Wendy likes the oven smelling of engine ;D ;D ;D
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Ted, had the missus gone out for the day? I'd never risk that if I wanted to remain attached to certain parts of my anatomy! :o
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No Matt she was at work!
All was back to normal in the kitchen when she arrived home.
I decided not to mention I had been baking.🤫
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She'll know ;)
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I'm unsure as yet what I'll be having done with my crankcases, I may do the same Ted (I also have the same AEG oven BTW) I may do that but I'm thinking of maybe putting a matt lacquer over the top which is petrol resistant, not 100% sure what would happen if that silver gets petrol on it. All you need is a carb overflow or a leak from a float bowl and if it all lifts it's an expensive fix.
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Ceracote it Ken, no worries at all then!
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Doing it yourself is miles cheaper though Roo.
As you know I dropped off a load of parts at the ceramic coaters on Wednesday, as one part wasn't mine I asked him to quote me for just those parts.
In the bag were the carb bracket where all the carbs mount, the 2 small lifter arms that go onto the rod and the 4 lifter boxes that sit inside the bank of carbs and rise when the throttle opens. All done is silver and lacquered over afterwards, cost was £50 to 7 bits. Got to be honest and say it was far more than I expected and I wasn't at all pleased. Especially as I had 2 of the carb brackets myself to be done, 6 exhaust clamps and 24 exhaust collets, 2 Brembo radial calipers, 2 1300 wheels plus a few other small pieces, gonna need a new mortgage if it's as expensive as I fear.
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(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52652712819_706df5e875_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2odJV8r)UK rear fender (https://flic.kr/p/2odJV8r) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52651950287_3526d49d78_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2odF1sk)500 fender inside (https://flic.kr/p/2odF1sk) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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Done some cleaning of my UK rear fender - chrome is acceptable - underside painted after cleaning with cold galvanizing spray with light finish with engine paint.
Front forks now assembled with new seals etc & 160 ml of (SAE 10W) light fork oil in each unit.
Next need to assemble the various front fork clamps in the right order for the final fit.
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Where's the side bolt holes Ted? I can't see them or the brackets they are on.
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Where's the side bolt holes Ted? I can't seem them or the brackets they are on.
Never noticed that oh bugger they have been cut off - I'll see what DK will do about it if anything!!
Now I look I can see they have been chopped off all the way along - I feel well foolish for not noticing before I bought them & polished them up a little with Solvol polish,
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How much did DS charge you for that?
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How much did DS charge you for that?
This is the parts description.
"Mudguard is in good clean solid condition decent chrome finish with minor marks blemishes only one mounting bolt is broken off in hole see pictures. 80100 323 670XW."
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That's a real shame as chrome looks so good and it's unusual for DK to have the UK version.
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I'm feeling suitably down hearted about the lack of side mounts - I've had quite a few bits from DK so hope they give me a refund as they seem to have a good reputation.
I trawled through most of the rear fenders they had in their shop concentrating on the number plate mounting points - missing the obvious lack of side mounts.
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Feeling upbeat today DK will refund me no problem - been asked to wait until Monday before I return the fender as they want to check if there is a replacement in the pipeline. They will arrange a simultaneous delivery / collection.
Pretty sure it will end up me posting the item back as they have sent a postage label.
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Feeling upbeat today DK will refund me no problem - been asked to wait until Monday before I return the fender as they want to check if there is a replacement in the pipeline. They will arrange a simultaneous delivery / collection.
Pretty sure it will end up me posting the item back as they have sent a postage label.
Well that is a result - I'm sorry I pointed you to the wrong thing !! Alls well that ends well
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Feeling upbeat today DK will refund me no problem - been asked to wait until Monday before I return the fender as they want to check if there is a replacement in the pipeline. They will arrange a simultaneous delivery / collection.
Pretty sure it will end up me posting the item back as they have sent a postage label.
Well that is a result - I'm sorry I pointed you to the wrong thing !! Alls well that ends well
Not your fault Simon I need a pair of eyeballs like Ken.
Are you back home now?
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Not your fault Simon I need a pair of eyeballs like Ken.
Are you back home now?
Yep -just
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Yeah, it's really sad I notice things like that.
I have no life ;D ;D
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No Ken not sad, this site needs folk who look not just see even if it knocks our duck off sometimes.🤔
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I second that
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I feel the detail is appreciated here, though often used on mainstream sites to criticise a person........
I believe unconditional criticism toward someone that offers intricate details that are pertinent ordinarily display a lack of knowledge in the person delivering that critical view. It follows that the person without that knowledge feels vulnerable and insecure in the need to ridicule the one with knowledge.......from psychology in workplace environment study 8)
Detail is an important part of technical forum and quite well delivered, recieved on here.
My tuppence w'th ;D
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And a great way to put it. I have no idea that’s why I’m always asking, if it wasnot for the beady eyes of Ken, Bryan, yerself n Trig et al, I’d be stuffed.
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I concur 👍👍👍
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Well said Roo. 8) 8) 8)
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OEM purists will know why I have come up with a pet name for my 500 - it's going to be "Big Ears". ;D ;D ;D
As the old front indicators were of different stem lengths with one being very rusty I bough myself a pair of aftermarket ones that are 30 mm longer.
Never mind the wind resistance just look at the King Charles stance.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52665240839_05e5be4819_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oeR8gM)Hello Big Ears (https://flic.kr/p/2oeR8gM) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
Only just spotted that two of our dogs muscled in on the picture !
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Coming on Ted. I like the ‘ears’. Bottom yoke and fork stanchions look really well finished. Phil pots work wonders don’t they….it was philpots wasn’t it?
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Coming on Ted. I like this ‘ears’. Bottom yoke and fork stanchions look really well finished. Phil pots work wonders don’t they….it was philpots wasn’t it?
Yes Phil it was Philpots who saved the forks - the new handlebars should be here by the weekend then I can start fitting the mudguard & front brakes.
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I'm in front mudguard, 'alteration heaven' at the moment, you're going standard arent you Ted? I've got bits welded on, clearances on the RHS to sort, I've lowered it by 16mm which is as close as i can get with the meat on the brace etc. Proper head scratcher but things are moving.
I rather like the ears (thumbs up emoji). I wonder if you tilt them one way or the other you might get a bit of a 'chord' out of them as they catch the wind. Bit like a single church organ pipe ;D
Forks look the biz mate, nicey nice nice 8)
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The bars arrived today complete with wiring slots & switch location holes - can't see any markings for correct bar rotation angle but well happy.
Bars just in place nothing tightened up yet any lack of symmetry is a combination of camera angle & steering not being dead straight.
Put the earrings on & face to see how it will look. 8) 8) 8)
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52670411081_b030d438bf_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ofiCcT)first mock up (https://flic.kr/p/2ofiCcT) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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All looking good Ted. I like the circular "side" light, if that's the way to describe it. I know they've variously been labelled angel eyes in cars, but feel they are quite effective visibility wise in traffic, perhaps because we've some sort of facial recognition thing in our base cortex going on that let's us notice them easily.
I think it looks good anyway :)
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Ah the Angel Eyes started by BMW side lights. Thanks
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That's like my toolbox..Curver?... But mine has red clips to secure the lid.
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looking great Ted. Love theh head light, think it really fits the bars and the it'll look great with your black paint scheme. However, I do covet your gold 'Gerry can', thats mint ;D ;D
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The Jerry can came from a forces surplus store now closed in BoT it was an ex-RAF item.
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Another Jerry an under the chairs, how many do you need Ted?
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I have three cans.
One is for waste oil etc the 5 gallon one.
One for Petrol 1 gallon - it's over 40 yrs old.
One for Diesel 2 gallons.
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That's like my toolbox..Curver?... But mine has red clips to secure the lid.
I think it's a Curver copy I've had it for a good 40 years.
Update it is a Curver !
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Bike looks like Pat Butcher Ted. ;D ;D
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Bike looks like Pat Butcher Ted. ;D ;D
Nicely summed up Ken I was thinking Bet Lynch so I've missed the mark a tad.
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I have three cans.
One is for waste oil etc the 5 gallon one.
One for Petrol 1 gallon - it's over 40 yrs old.
One for Diesel 2 gallons.
That petrol is probably knackered by now Ted I'm sure the stuff has a shorter shelf life than that ;);D
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;D
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I have three cans.
One is for waste oil etc the 5 gallon one.
One for Petrol 1 gallon - it's over 40 yrs old.
One for Diesel 2 gallons.
That petrol is probably knackered by now Ted I'm sure the stuff has a shorter shelf life than that ;);D
It's what I use for cleaning engine parts - SUL no expense spared!
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I've gone back a bit having stripped down the front forks to sort out a stripped thread on the left leg where the top calliper arm is fitted.
As a result I have found that the fork seal that are 35 x 48 x 11 has moved up on one side towards the circlip - there is what seems a big gap as though there ought to be a spacer between the seal & the circlip. When I fitted the seals they were flush at the bottom what's going on here?
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52708481016_caffe19e8a_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oiEK55)500 fork seal (https://flic.kr/p/2oiEK55) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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Wonder if it’s bad fitting Ted? Cant see that it would shift touching against stanchion. Assuming they are correct seals for the job.
Maybe an attempt to get worn seals to seal?
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I have a vage recollection of early seals being a different thickness from later ones but not sure if it was just 750 or which way. I think there was a service bulletin about it
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Wonder if it’s bad fitting Ted? Cant see that it would shift touching against stanchion. Assuming they are correct seals for the job.
Maybe an attempt to get worn seals to seal?
They were new seals of the correct size for a 500 - they shifted when I was dismantling the forks -there was a substatntial gap 2-3 mm between the circlip in the groove when they were fitted fully down against the shoulder earlier in the year.
Bryan might be onto something about an alternative seal size being fitted.
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Sorry Ted, certainly wasn’t suggesting you had fitted badly! Thought maybe there had been a previous hammer wielding monkey at it. 🤣🤣
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According to parts book the seal should be 35 x 48 x 11, and from what has already told me that's what's printed on the seal. I do seem to recall some seals having a metal spacing washer fitted under the seal, snug fit inside the slider but bore too big for it to ever touch the stanchion. Maybe that's what this needs. After checking my spare sliders I can confirm the shelf the seal sits on is 14.5mm from bottom of shelf to circlip recess, so if the seal is only 11mm that's a 3.5mm gap allowing the seal to move up and down. Doesn't seem a good idea to allow it to do that.
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According to parts book the seal should be 35 x 48 x 11, and from what has already told me that's what's printed on the seal. I do seem to recall some seals having a metal spacing washer fitted under the seal, snug fit inside the slider but bore too big for it to ever touch the stanchion. Maybe that's what this needs. After checking my spare sliders I can confirm the shelf the seal sits on is 14.5mm from bottom of shelf to circlip recess, so if the seal is only 11mm that's a 3.5mm gap allowing the seal to move up and down. Doesn't seem a good idea to allow it to do that.
I agree Ken that is the seal I have 35 x 48 x 11 - the old seal was binned so I can't compare it now but 100% certain there were was no spacer fitted.
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You could try this Ted, remove the circlip, knock the seal back down to the bottom of the shelf and then fit 2 of these, https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/372421144641?hash=item56b607b041:g:tlsAAOSw0NlbiUol&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA4I%2FsHyGiSMZ9YZ%2Ba020U60gNkob1Cv7cHVttJkwDCZNq9QKHmRV1VTfNemcNLlDEs5MVN5tSUojX7Vy%2FsOdyzcUsYScOvHRO5sVORwuzxrYtYx9lViCmLpfh1n3Dua8TFyaqn7UzkzmSZy5owihdA%2FXvHxi2HqTx3mkm4wkbmySSXQDhjzvRDd2zeBwAG0TmN6benfDFLP35Yw3eRp450COeDomd5Cyce5rOGxoh%2BIT2sD2xIWnAlxjfjDVcstj19GwSr8mZ%2Fq072d9ox0q0DRc5TFm8GdtHKEdJ9sq%2BPv01%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR_S_gMrQYQ
You'd need to enlarge the hole from 32mm to say 37mm to give it a small clearance so it can't touch the stanchion, saying that they are nylon so wouldn't really harm it if it did but better if it didn't. Next time fit the washers under the seal, if you ever do them again that is.
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Pyramid do a oil seal shown as 35 x 48 x 13/14.5 looks interesting not sure what the double height means perhaps comes with a spacer?
I have messaged them for details of the meaning 13/14.5 in the description.
https://pyramid-parts.com/products/fosmain?variant=40165627207
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Sorry Ted, certainly wasn’t suggesting you had fitted badly! Thought maybe there had been a previous hammer wielding monkey at it. 🤣🤣
I didn't take it that way the top of the fork legs have plenty of marks on the top edges where seals have been removed over the decades.
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I have done a few fork seals and have always wondered about the gap, i tap the seal down only so the top is level with the circlip groove rather than to the bottom of the hole, wonder which is correct?
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I have done a few fork seals and have always wondered about the gap, i tap the seal down only so the top is level with the circlip groove rather than to the bottom of the hole, wonder which is correct?
I am hoping the seal I have found at Pyramid cures this issue I am waiting for a reply. I will post the outcome when I get a reply.
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Came across this old post. https://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/parts/by-part-number/hpart_91255341305/
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That looks like a deep seal Ted! Are they still available?
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Yes site says special order a couple of weeks.
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Pyramid ones may be better value and maybe just as good.
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Pyramid ones may be better value and maybe just as good.
Just waiting for a reply as to what they mean about the depth description 13/14.5 mm I will ring them if my online enquiry grows hairs. I have used the Pyramid seals previously they seem a decent quality finish.
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I’ve ordered a pair to see how they look, will let you know when they arrive
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I’ve fitted these seals to my 550 they’re 13mm deep instead of 11mm so fills that gap up by another 2mm
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I’ve fitted these seals to my 550 they’re 13mm deep instead of 11mm so fills that gap up by another 2mm
The listing does not give much detail are they double lipped with the springs fitted top & bottom?
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I’ve fitted these seals to my 550 they’re 13mm deep instead of 11mm so fills that gap up by another 2mm
The listing does not give much detail are they double lipped with the springs fitted top & bottom?
not sure what you mean by spring top and bottom but they were the same as the old ones I took out apart from the extra 2mm in depth
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I meant the circular springs that sit inside the seals.
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I’ve fitted these seals to my 550 they’re 13mm deep instead of 11mm so fills that gap up by another 2mm
The listing does not give much detail are they double lipped with the springs fitted top & bottom?
not sure what you mean by spring top and bottom but they were the same as the old ones I took out apart from the extra 2mm in depth
The OEM seals are double spring. A dust spring on the top side and the oil spring on the underside.
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I’ve fitted these seals to my 550 they’re 13mm deep instead of 11mm so fills that gap up by another 2mm
The listing does not give much detail are they double lipped with the springs fitted top & bottom?
not sure what you mean by spring top and bottom but they were the same as the old ones I took out apart from the extra 2mm in depth
The OEM seals are double spring. A dust spring on the top side and the oil spring on the underside.
oh I see never too old to learn 🤓
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Ted, the Pyramids seals have just this minute arrived.
The difference in the stated depth is because they state the depth of the body of the seal at 13mm but they also include the depth including the upper lip of the seal, the part that touches the fork stanchion.
They are double lipped but no springs are visible at all, they appear to have sealed the springs inside the seal body, they weigh a lot more than standard seals due to this. I can expose one of the springs if I peel back part of the the rubber seal lip but the upper one is completely enclosed. Small packet of rubber grease included.
They look really good, I'd say go for them.
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Advice taken Ken I'll order a set thank Bud.
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Just realised I have not updated my 500 project for a while - front forks now re-assembled and back on the bike with new front mudguard etc in place.
Gear shafts in place in the upper engine casing waiting for a pair of Brown mains from DS - Plastigauged existing Big End shells & all good.
Red assembly lube needs cleaning out - it is remnants from when the old crank was in place last year.
Did something to my lower back last week whilst working in the back garden & pond so presently being sensible until my back pain subsides - I'm going to see if I can hang by my arms from the garage loft hatch to help ease the pressure on my back - it used to work when I was younger.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52958882182_02375e502c_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oFN7By)500 upper casing (https://flic.kr/p/2oFN7By) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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Perhaps hand the engine from your ankles? :o
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Perhaps hand the engine from your ankles? :o
I'll need a pair of Manakles to do that Matt - yet more expense! ;D ;D ;D
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"Did something to my lower back last week whilst working in the back garden & pond so presently being sensible until my back pain subsides - I'm going to see if I can hang by my arms from the garage loft hatch to help ease the pressure on my back - it used to work when I was younger."
We have a little outside gym near us, set out in a nice parkland, that has overhead bars plus other parallels etc to do this on. A very simple but useful set that I've used for years. I think it's quite beneficial Ted.
Alternatively, I here tell there's various "personal service" providers that will perhaps offer a stricter regime ;D you have to be a previous television presenter or some such to gain entry though, or so I've heard :)
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Now fully recovered from my back injury (I hope) so today inspired by Dave's progress I have assembled the crank casing halves.
Hondabond applied thinly & tube from 2022 was still nice and spreadable.
All bolts tightened as per manual. Used existing bolts for under the engine - new SS normal bolts for the top as they are vissible.
Despite new bearings, drive chain & rubbers primary drive shaft fitted into place without too much force being needed....phew.
Before I fitted the primary drive shaft when I had just fitted the lower casing bolts I packed the primary hub with a folded tea towel to prevent the starter clutch from separating from the drive hub when rotating the cases.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53014690911_f747d5322a_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oLJ9B2)500 casing progress (https://flic.kr/p/2oLJ9B2) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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Excellent. Well done Ted. One of bottom smaller bolts next to the alternator has a bendable wire guide. No problem to fit it later.
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Excellent. Well done Ted. One of bottom smaller bolts next to the alternator has a bendable wire guide. No problem to fit it later.
I know the clip you mean - thanks - I will look for it as it was not attached to my bolt storage system with the washer - cardboard with holes in marking the layout of all the bolts for top & bottom cases.
Just fitted the bearing lock plate - mine had no washer just the 6 mm bolts - neither do I have the oil guide plate (item 3) photo E15 Page 34 ish - I assume that is for early models?
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Is that the one goes at bottom inside clutch cover Ted, if so it was fitted to the ones after ther gearchange detent mod as in the buleletins.
Good work, told you the shaft was no problem mate
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You were right both you & Ken about it not being too difficult to fit the primary drive shaft especially as I had previously done my 400 one - me overthinking as usual - looking for problems that did not present themselves. There might be a bonus in being oblivious to what might go wrong. 8) 8) 8)
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Is that the one goes at bottom inside clutch cover Ted, if so it was fitted to the ones after ther gearchange detent mod as in the buleletins.
Good work, told you the shaft was no problem mate
I don't have the ball bearing in my gear shift tumbler - does that mean I should have the oil guide inside the clutch - can't s see a hole for the screw in my casing?
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I think it uses one of the bolts that secure the lock plate in place Ted. Bottom one I think.
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Parts book shows a self tapper screw.
Is it an important modification ?
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It does say screw but it is a 6mm thread Ted not a self tapper, and yes that oil guide is necessary
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It does say screw but it is a 6mm thread Ted not a self tapper, and yes that oil guide is necessary
Do you have a spare one perchance?
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Possibly somewhere in the mess of my garage but god knows where and finding it is unlikely
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Okay so today my Brother came over to help me lift the crank case unit into the frame.
Engine base unit went in easily, bottom front lower two bolts plus long bolt at rear slotted into place to keep it stable.
I know the upper rear long mounting bolt has a spacer but it looks as though there should be a much shorter spacer between the clutch side of the engine & the rear frame hanger - just a guess there should be a thick washer/spacer something around the 10-12 mm mark?
The parts book & my Haynes Manual show a right hand distance piece (item 9 p/n50357-323-010) it looks very much bigger so was this for earlier frames/engines?
Just need to know what if anything I am looking for as if it is a 10mm spacer I should find it listed in my parts location spreadsheet. I suspect I might even have bought a SS one from Max that was months ago so it will be in an ultra safe place of new parts - contents not listed? ::) ::) ::)
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Nothing on the upper rear bolt except the spacer fitted on the left hand side between the crankcase and the frame. The hanger goes on the inside of the frame.
50357-323-010 is fitted on the left hand side of the lower bolt, again between the crankcase and the frame. Nothing else Ted, if there was you'd see it on the parts book diagrams.
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Ken this is the parts manual showing what I am on about it's the lower rear long engine mounting bolt. Item 9.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53022795724_983f87af87_o.png) (https://flic.kr/p/2oMrFTb)Screenshot 2023-07-04 190020 (https://flic.kr/p/2oMrFTb) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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Bottom bolt Ted, goes between the crankcase and that frame lug sticking off the frame. It's quite thick TBH, about 10-12 thick IIRC. Max does them in stainless.
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In that case I have one methinks.
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You should have, i put one in there, may even have been a nos one
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Found it in as new condition Bryan.
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I think you also have a stainless one somewhere
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I think you also have a stainless one somewhere
So do I, I've found the top one, I have the axle ones plus the brake hub special bolt. Plenty of time to slip it in when I find it. As my build progresses I have fewer boxes to search.
I plan to do an audit of my parts boxes over the next few days to reflect what I have recently fitted as well as reduce some of the boxes. Good organisation saves time especially wasted time looking for things that might not exist.
Updated:- Found the SS bottom rear engine spacer. ;D ;D ;D
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Bottom bolt Ted, goes between the crankcase and that frame lug sticking off the frame. It's quite thick TBH, about 10-12 thick IIRC. Max does them in stainless.
I'll own up I misread the picture in the parts book -the rear tube where the stand pivot shaft is looks as though it was part of the spacer!
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A little bit of progress today - I've fitted the pistons without drama.
- no lost circlips.
Next up is fitting the block I'm okay with the pistons just need to work out how the cam chain tensioner fits first. I'm presently cleaning up the two oil restrictors in the ultra sound cleaner. I have the 4 cylinder bottom O- rings & bottom gasket at the ready.
In my head I do not fully understand the placing of the fixed blade the manual should help.
Any tips welcome.
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The front, static, blade goes INSIDE the chain with the rib facing forwards.
If you dont you wont get the cam sprocket on.
I find it easier to fit the tensioner mechanism with the barrells not all the way down to make sure the bottom goes into the pocket its supposed to
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Second that. Leave the barrels about 1" from the crankcase, fit the tensioner bolt through the barrels, don't fit the nut. As you drop the barrels watch to ensure the tensioner goes into the slot in the lower crankcase. When it does, fit the oring, the washer and the nut. Push in the tensioner blade all the way and then lock the nut off. Don't release it until the cams in place and setup correctly.
Same for the front guide, fit when the barrels are standing slightly proud of the cases. It has an arrow which faces up, also says UP IIRC and as Bryan points out it goes behind then chain so that the chain goes between the guide and the front of the barrels.
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Thanks for the pointers both of you:-
So the cam chain adjuster screw is on the rear of the engine, the fixed blade being fitted so the chain is between it & the front of the block.
For the fixed blade I can see it has the word UP on it with a two pairs of arms - I can see the side arms that sit in the engine casing recess at the bottom - so it sort of hangs from the slots in the top of the block until it fully engaged at the bottom - sounds fun.
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Block fitted today:-
Lower block gasket & O rings & restrictors in place - the four larger block seals fitted to cylinder block - part lowered block to fit cam chain through tunnel.
Block fitted onto studs lowered down to a small wooden support block on rear edge of chain tunnel - pistons fed into bores 2 & 3 then 1 & 4 with cam chain through tunnel - cam tensioner & guide fitted into place - adjuster locked back once block fully lower into place.
All feels good - plenty of exercise walking round the bike ramp whilst feeding piston rings into block.
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Making good progress Ted! Looking forward to some pics.
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Check the tensioner has located in the slot in the lower crankcase, then check again just to be safe.
Should also have said to check the tensioner itself, after speaking to another member recently it's apparent a number of these tensioners are actually bent like a banana, caused by fitting the tensioner into the lower slot and then trying to fit the bolt through the barrels, doing it this way can bend the lower part of the tensioner as it's only pressed steel with little structural strength. This causes the blade to bend ever so slightly thus putting more pressure onto the chain than it should and if the chains new that means it's harder to get the chain onto the sprocket and the sprocket onto the cam.
I have 6 or 7 tensioners all restored and bagged, one showed signs of not being in the slot, the bottom edge gets chewed by the primary chain, 4 others showed bends in the lower half of the tensioner, when new the tensioner is straight, if yours looks bent it's because it is. Another way it could be bent is in how it's removed, you remove the nut etc and then try and remove the bolt from the barrels, this can do the damage in reverse. Always lift the barrels slightly before removing the tensioner, just to disengage the tensioner from the locating slot.
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Thanks Ken,
The long tensioner blade was nice & straight I positioned it vertical with a gap of around an inch at the bottom. Fitted the fixed guide so it was pivoting at the top - I could see the lower section engage in the recess. I knew the rear blade was in position at the bottom as it did not move sideways when block down- after locking the nut in place with the adjuster screw in the fully back position - top part looks nice & vertical.
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Always pays to check Ted. Saves gaskets if nothing else ;D
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As well as the tips here I found the Honda Workshop manual in the download section a handy reminder.👍👍👍
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A little more progress all cling filmed up to keep out the dog hairs!
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53075895996_50f2fdae68.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oS8QK7)PXL_20230726_134925498 (https://flic.kr/p/2oS8QK7) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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Coming on nicely, Ted.
I was wondering, did you get round to having the tank and panels painted?
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Getting there Ted. Forks look shiny ! Some of the bolts around the headstock and fork tops look comparatively less so. I have bought a couple of new fork tops from DS and will put an order in with Kay fasteners for some stainless nuts and bolts. Not expensive and I always think stuff around the instruments handlebars and forks that you see when riding is the most satisfying to restore.
Going backwards today taking my swingarm in for a second go at powder coating….
After all that work on the engine best to keep dog hairs etc well away…. :)
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Headstock bolts are stainless - I haven't buffed them before use.
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Middletons are already polished Ted, cost a little more but none of that appalling writing on the surface of them.
I've also polished some stainless bolts not from Middletons and they look chromed if you do them right.
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Clutch unit now assembled and shimmed up behind the new SS circlip.
Now back to more polishing work on the clutch cover/ case just done a number of 30 minute sessions on the buffing wheel in the last couple of days using coarse then medium soap.
Keeping the deep scuff marks for now just aiming for a nice shiny overall finish when I move to the fine & very fine soap over the weekend - trying to do stuff whilst Wendy is at work during the middle of the day in her new part time summer job.
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Started polishing today - long way to go - heaps better than before I started.
I need to find my small buffing wheels to reach the difficult couple of places - I put them in a really safe place!
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53079711145_f9b8b003cf_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oStoRx)casing (https://flic.kr/p/2oStoRx) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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Starting to get the hang of this polishing lark Ted. Looking really good.
There are some Dremel attachments with a small felt drum on them, already impregnated with buffing compound, they ain't bad for those screw holes etc.. Not cheap but they last a while.
Only thing I will say is I would consider doing those small marks on the top surface between the dipstick and kickstart holes, you will start to regret leaving them after a while I find. Although it means doing a bit more sanding on a polishing surface it's only a small area and it will buff up nicely again afterwards. Just my opinion, feel free to discount it.
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That is high praise indeed Ken but not deserved- I have a confession to make, I avoided a different side shot on the photo as there are some quite deep age related scratches elsewhere. ;) ;) ;)
Not sure how, I managed to get fine & very fine soap block mixed up so I have spent another 45 minutes of my life that I will not get back returning to a previously better finish. :P :P :P
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Spent yesterday removing the valves from my cylinder head, they all look good, all will need decarbonizing & grinding in.
Today removed all eight rocker shafts (one inner one took some releasing) ready for cleaning & checking the cam bearings - parts book shows four shafts so clearly some sort of modification?
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K0's have 8 shafts and some earlier K1s
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Personally I've yet to find a 500 that doesn't have 8 fitted from the factory, my engine number is WAY past what Honda claim to be the cutoff point and that had 8 as standard. The K2 parts book for instance shows them still be fitted and by the time that came out it should have changed over to the 4 shafts only, so why show the 8?
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It changed from 8 shafts to 4 shafts in the UK for the CB500 K1 in 1974 ;)
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Parts manuals seem all over the place about the number of shafts.
in Aladdin's Cave the Japanese CB500 K0 parts list only shows 4 shafts.
+ the CB500 K0 K1 list dated Jan 30, 1972 also only shows 4 shafts.
+ I have a parts list (downloaded from honda4fun I think) that is supposed to cover K0 K1 K2 as Page 4 pictorially showing both 4 and 8 shafts. 4 shafts to 2006337 and 8 shafts from 2006338. (or maybe this is a mistake and should be the other way round)
None of these had the later 4 pinned shafts fitted to later 550s. SB08 11/08/76 covered this. It seems strange that Honda did not fit this mod for a full five years after 500s were first sold. Or for some reason did it only become apparent on later 550s.
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Four shafts were fitted to the CB500K1 in the UK from the middle of 1974 and all 1975 ones had them fitted. ;)
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I think people read the parts book wrong, says 4 shafts UP TO 2006337, 8 shafts AFTER that number. Must admit to doing that myself. My 05/71 parts book only shows 4 shafts, no picture or mention of 8 shafts.
When they changed back to 4 shafts again much later in the production run they weren't staked like the 550 ones, the 500K3 were staked as that's using a 550 style rocker box
https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/1511829976
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My cylinder head is having a very light skim to remove a couple of marks that I was not happy with as they were where the four circular metal seals on the head gasket fit around the cylinder bore. Can't collect it from the Engineers until I test negative for Covid (hopefully Friday).
In the meantime as I am feeling a lot brighter I've started to sort out various electrical connections as it is a bit of a mess in several places with the ravages of age making many of the PVC type sleeves hard plus a bit of a mix of connectors from previous work. You can see why I was thinking of replacing the loom but for now making do with some new connector blocks & some tape work fitting new connections where needed.
..(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53151591598_c40b6eaf58_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oYPNpG)500 loom (https://flic.kr/p/2oYPNpG) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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Not 100% sure but I know the 550 loom routing is different than that Ted. It goes under the lower yoke and is held by a clamp which bolts onto the yoke. Whilst there is no 500 routing diagram to my knowledge I think the 550 routes better. There is also another loom hanger which goes behind the tank mount rubber.
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Not 100% sure but I know the 550 loom routing is different than that Ted. It goes under the lower yoke and is held by a clamp which bolts onto the yoke. Whilst there is no 500 routing diagram to my knowledge I think the 550 routes better. There is also another loom hanger which goes behind the tank mount rubber.
I have a spare loom guide for a 400 that fits behind the left front tank rubber so plan to use that if it helps, as regards the route at the front column area I have atm routed mine like this photo below I think its Julie's 500. No wires connected up as yet as I'm taking my time to get the various wires in the Headlamp bowl in the best position.
My cunning plan (if it even works) is to work with the battery earth connected normally, the starter motor cable disconnected for now. I plan to use an inline lamp between the positive battery post and the live end of loom as a sort of safety fuse (suitably insulated joint).
The lamp I use is an old lamp unit that used to be part of an old car tool kit from the 1950's that you clipped to the battery before the days of illuminated engine bays. I can put a variety of bulbs in the lamp fitting, atm I have a 12 V 5W bulb in the lamp. As I connect various wires if I happen to accidentally contact a live wire to earth then it will illuminate the bulb/or blow it instead of overheating the main wiring loom. I will use my AVO meter & additional Hella test lamp where connections are uncertain.
If its anything like my 400 was most wires are a straight forward colour match so the more that are plugged in the loom the fewer unknown wires that remain. Some colours such as light blue/light grey/ light green are not easy to decide what they are. I'm not colour blind as such but faded colours can be tricky to identify as your eye sight ages.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53151221376_6f0d305e76_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oYMUmy)wiring 1 (https://flic.kr/p/2oYMUmy) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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That looks a lot better than when i sent it off in Roos van mate
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I wish lol that's Julie's I think! ;D ;D ;D
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Lovely job, Ted. Nearly there.
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Lovely job, Ted. Nearly there.
That's not my bike the photo is to illustrate the loom route in response to Ken's post.
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Ted, I had the same problem as you identifying wire colours that were faded and similar. Then I fitted LED light battens to the garage instead of the original light bulbs and using an inspection lamp in some areas. What a difference the better light made! I could differentiate the wire colours easily. I just didn't realise before how poor my garage lighting was. Not an expensive upgrade either.
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I replaced all my old florescent tubes with Batten LEDs a few years ago. That said in the summer when my garage door is up it blocks out the lighting rows above my bike so I am relying on daylight.
It's my eye balls that need upgrading 😁😁😁
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You need a lamp with a CRI of 80 or greater for good colour rendition. Better still, go for 6000k natural daylight which has a CRI of 90 and grow some nice plants too.
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Get some crowd funding for laser surgery Ted.
Tell me, did your eyes suddenly get worse after meeting Roo? He's so ugly my eyeballs haven't stopped bleeding yet ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Ken you are being really cruel about Roo he is a lovely boy.❤️
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S’alright ,mine are still glazed over from being talked at!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Nice tip about wiring in a test lamp Ted, I ll try that.
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Nice tip about wiring in a test lamp Ted, I ll try that.
I started connecting the Indicators today I found that instead of them flashing they just lit up the test bulb even when I upped the bulb from 5W to 10W so my idea has not really worked out.
Decided instead to fit a temporary in-line blade fuse where the test lamp was fitted as a precaution until the loom connections are all sorted.
First good outcome was the left side indicators work just fine including the additional left side LED unit in my tail lamp unit.
Next will be sorting out the idiot light repeater connection.
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Started lapping in some of the valves this morning managed cylinders 1 & 2 inlet & exhaust.
Did a tad more on the wiring front all indicators now working including panel light, neutral light, oil light & brake lights. Ignition circuit part done.
I'm scratching my head over the starter button as the yellow/Red wire is live but the button contact wire is black?
Next job is side lights & headlamp wiring.
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I had a good couple of hours on the wiring connections today, sorted the side lights, headlamp & dip beam all now working as they should.
Items not currently working as they should are the pass switch & starter button. No Horn fitted atm - that should be straight forwards.
ATM the connections are anyhow in terms of orientation/routes with some temporary bridges, once everything works I will tidy up the Spaghetti appearance so I can fit my slim LED headlight unit.
Only blew my inline fuse once yesterday & one today (5 amp) so pleased I went to the trouble to fit one as a temporary measure on the live battery terminal.
PS: Not checked the kill switch as yet!
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53159173318_c92b8012f3_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oZuEc1)500 headlamp speg (https://flic.kr/p/2oZuEc1) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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How many wires to the starter button in the switch Ted
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Very satisfying Ted when it all works! Dont mind getting stuck inti jobs like that.
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How many wires to the starter button in the switch Ted
The switch itself has a live Yellow/Red trace that when you depress the button connects to a black wire out of the loom with a male end.
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The problem Ted is your trying to marry up 550 switchgear with a 500 loom and that's not going to be a doddle.
First of all the yellow/red is supposed to be earthed by the starter button on the 500, on the 550 it's a different arrangement as the 550 has a clutch switch and sensor so the starter solenoid won't work if the bikes not in neutral or the clutch isn't pulled in. You haven't got the wiring for that. On the 550 the yellow/red connects to a green/red when the button is pressed.
You also seem to have a yellow/black connected to 2 blacks for some reason, yet there is a female yellow/black up near the top connected to something else, what's that about.
What does the black/blue wire connect to in the switchgear? I have a sneaky idea that's the power source for the headlight flasher and horn, try testing to see if there is continuity between the blue and the black/blue when the pass switch is operated and also light green to black/blue when the horn is pressed If so that wire goes to the black connectors in the loom..
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The problem Ted is your trying to marry up 550 switchgear with a 500 loom and that's not going to be a doddle.
First of all the yellow/red is supposed to be earthed by the starter button on the 500, on the 550 it's a different arrangement as the 550 has a clutch switch and sensor so the starter solenoid won't work if the bikes not in neutral or the clutch isn't pulled in. You haven't got the wiring for that. On the 550 the yellow/red connects to a green/red when the button is pressed.
You also seem to have a yellow/black connected to 2 blacks for some reason, yet there is a female yellow/black up near the top connected to something else, what's that about.
What does the black/blue wire connect to in the switchgear? I have a sneaky idea that's the power source for the headlight flasher and horn, try testing to see if there is continuity between the blue and the black/blue when the pass switch is operated and also light green to black/blue when the horn is pressed If so that wire goes to the black connectors in the loom..
I have some connections that have no colour logic but work - it's certainly not completely finished as yet.
I have a black live double connector on the loom end connected to a single Black/Yellow trace wire from the right side light switch - this made the sidelights & instrument lights work as they should when ignition is on.
I have a temporary bridge between the left switch - male Black/Yellow trace connected to right switch - Black/Red trace, This made the headlamp position on the right handlebar switch work, main & dip work on the left handlebar switch.
I have an unused black male wire on the right side handlebar switch - this is probably related to the kill switch?
I need to check the solenoid connections again, if it's just a matter of earthing the starter button I have a spare black wire on the right side switch that I can connect to earth but at the moment pretty sure that would blow the fuse as the Yellow/Red trace is live & reads a good 12 volts.
As you have mentioned there is a "Spare" Black/Blue trace wire on the left side switch as yet unused.
My switch gear came from Germany listed as follows - CB 400 500 K2 550 750K3-K6 Four
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Short update Bryan - I've connected the spare black from the right side switch to earth & solenoid now clicks - starter motor lead not connected at the moment. I've wrapped the black with earth coloured tape.
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You would be better connecting the black to black power, the yelloe/red to yellow/red and at the solenoid the small wire that DOES NOT connect to yellow red is connected to an earth(green).
That keeps everything in the shell colour to colour for next time and only the solenoid, which is rarely looked at, different to standard
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At the moment I am painting my cylinder head prior to re-fitting the valves etc.
Whilst waiting for paint to dry I did a tad more on my headlamp & switch connection issues with having 550 switches on my 500 loom.
With the exception of the Pass switch function I have everything working now so getting closer!
Trouble is I have no spare wires so it's closer but not quite right - I might end up fitting a relay for the headlamp flash function.
Oh oh when I take the key out in the far right Park position rear side lamp & front beam on! I'll leave it until I've fitted the cylinder head.
Bryan did say I might have some issues with these switches..lol
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Have you put up pics of the switches ted? Is so point me at them or if not can you please
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These are my switches Bryan links below, in one of the photos most of the wires look to be all black but they have a trace colour on them that does not show in photos.
Both the starter button & the horn have a separate earth wire connection so they were pretty straight forward to connect up. I'm distracted at the moment as I want to get the cylinder head & camshaft all buttoned up before the cold weather sets in so wiring work will be at a standstill for a couple of weeks - any pointers welcome though.
Not helped by having another minor operation tomorrow afternoon to remove a BCC on my shoulder - top marks to my Dermatologist for spotting it & my two Melanomas that he has removed in the last couple of years. They blame sun damage but aside from one holiday back in 1967 I have never sunbathed or worn a sleeveless T shirt as I am and never was a beach Adonis or sun worshiper.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/184159105630
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/174181090102
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OK ted, i know what you have done but not what wire colours you have done it with.
The wire from the H on rh switch needs to go to the input of the dip switch on lh side
The P from rh switch needs to go to brown and/or brown white in headlamp
Black from rh switch(should be two of them) go to black power
Black from lh switch goes to black power(may be two of those as well)
Pass switch may have a seperate wire to shell or may connect inside to dip switch
Horn will need to have ground wire at horn as switch will power it.
You have already found starter has two wires and i explained how to keep shell standard instead of way you have it.
Hope that helps mate but long distance electrics aint easy, remember electrikery dont smell(unless you let the smoke out) dont taste much but by christ it bites
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Thanks for that Bryan I have copied your post on a word document so I can print it out I hope to report a good outcome by the end of the month. Ted
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You have my number if you are sat in front of it scratching whatever you scratch
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You have my number if you are sat in front of it scratching whatever you scratch
Thanks Bryan I have that in reserve bud- I'm a stubborn old bloke with Electrics with a slow learning dip before I see a hint of a curve on the horizon.
Like I say to my brother about house electrics there are only three wires how hard can it be -assuming you are not colour blind.
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Plan B
Until I have the sutures removed from my right shoulder shoulder I am leaving the cylinder head assembly & fitting for a couple of weeks so instead I'm biting & bobbing with the wiring again.
I have following Bryan's wiring tips with some success. (Early Days)
I have undone the switch halves from the handlebars to try to work out what goes where inside and made quite a bit of headway I think. As yet the pass switch is not functioning but everything else seems to now work.
I no longer have the front beam coming on with the switch in the far right position - parking light I think - trouble is just the rear lamp illuminates not the front side light. Is this how these old bikes were wired up?
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Seem to recall the front side light also lit up on park position Ted.
There should be 3 wires going to the pass switch, light green, dark blue and black. If you have the light green and dark blue whatever the other wire is goes to black on the loom. It should work then.
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I think you are right the front sidelight should illuminate as well.
I'll look at the Pass switch again as I have some spare wires atm.
Update:
I had a bit of a Eureka moment when I went to bed last night, this morning I changed the way the Horn function operates (as hinted by Bryan) so there is an earth wire at the horn end instead of the button earthing it. The black wire now supplies power to the horn instead of being an earth connection (much like the starter button). When I tried it this moring the Pass switch now works as does the Horn. I am now left with just one unused wire from the right handlebar switch - Black/blue trace. The original right side switch had 6 wires the new switch has 7 wires so not an issue to have a spare wire. I have a couple of wires that seem to contradict the matching colours I would expect - I will take a look at those & see if it changes anything.
Only very minor issue left is the front side light does not come on in the park position only the rear one - if I do not find a fix for that I can live with it as I have never used parking lights on a bike anway. Seems strange really as the front & rear side light are on the same circuit in the P light switch position. I would have thought that if the Park light position on the main ignition switch sends power to the rear lamp that it would also power the front sidelight - clearly it does not.
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The sidelight issue had me scratching my head too. If the side light comes on when headlamp switch is on, but not when ignition switch is in park, you probably have wrong wire to front sidelamp. It should be a brown wire, NOT brown/white (these supply tach and speedo). I did not realise that the power for sidelight/rear lamp takes a strange path, from r/h handlebar via brown/white wire back to ignition switch terminal TL1 then to TL2 which is the brown wire, then to pilot/rearlamp. when ignition switch is in park position power goes directly to TL2 for parking. If you look on the wiring diagram i sent you it makes sense. The odd blue/brown wire you have would have gone to fusebox on 400/550 so not needed on your 500.
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The sidelight issue had me scratching my head too. If the side light comes on when headlamp switch is on, but not when ignition switch is in park, you probably have wrong wire to front sidelamp. It should be a brown wire, NOT brown/white (these supply tach and speedo). I did not realise that the power for sidelight/rear lamp takes a strange path, from r/h handlebar via brown/white wire back to ignition switch terminal TL1 then to TL2 which is the brown wire, then to pilot/rearlamp. when ignition switch is in park position power goes directly to TL2 for parking. If you look on the wiring diagram i sent you it makes sense. The odd blue/brown wire you have would have gone to fusebox on 400/550 so not needed on your 500.
I think you have identified my issue Mick I have the front sidelight in the same connector as the instrument lamps.
The old side light bulb holder & short harness on my 500 looks suspiciously like an old instrument light harness.
It has a moulded bulb holder at the end - the wires are green (earth) & brown/white trace.
I have that connected with the other brown/white wires in the harness with the instrument lamps.
The plain brown wire in the harness has a feed from the right handlebar P side of the switch it is black/yellow trace on my switch iirc.
I will need to put an extra connector on this to siamese the side light into the feed from the P side of the switch. I have just done my first fit of the LED headlamp unit into the bowl spreading the wires evenly so the light unit fits okay. There is plenty of space as my LED head lamp unit is quite shallow.
I will try that in the morning and report back.
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Just done a temporary connection with some wire jammed in a connector - it all works correctly now so in the morining I need to solder in the right type of connector.
Thanks Bryan & Mick for your help - now sorted!
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Top work Ted, well done mate
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Thanks Roo it would have taken me longer without the fantastic help here. Electrics are hard to diagnose remotely. 👍👍👍
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I know mate, top back up on here though as you know. Glad it’s sorted mate
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Yup, long distance electomaconicals are the worst
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Not for you lot it seems mate. Top sleuthing
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TBH if Ted had done some close up shots and concentrated on the wires from the switches we could have worked it out much easier. You need close pics to work out the traces on the wires, you can't tell what's what from a distance.
Bad Ted ;D ;D ;D
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Ken, i cant tell the colour at close distance without my beloveds sewing magnifier!
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TBH if Ted had done some close up shots and concentrated on the wires from the switches we could have worked it out much easier. You need close pics to work out the traces on the wires, you can't tell what's what from a distance.
Bad Ted ;D ;D ;D
Had I needed the bike to go to work then it would have been a major issue - as it was just spending half an hour attaching a few wires seeing the result, bimbling about looking at the wiring diagram, blowing a couple of in-line safety fuses, swapping a few wires, testing, reading tips here, it was all sorted in 10 earth days during that time I had Covid again & a minor operation so in reality its been just a few hours of real work. Anyway today I checked everything is wired up & all is well.
I'm under close survaillance by Wendy atm so the cylinder head & camshaft fitting will have to wait for another 6 days until I have the 10 or so sutures removed. It will be nice to have the engine buttoned up for the winter if everything goes to plan.
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Ken, i cant tell the colour at close distance without my beloveds sewing magnifier!
I feel your pain Bryan, the older you get the longer arms you need
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Ted, can you smell smoke???
What's the glow from the garage???
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That’s his hydroponics set up for his pocket money
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Roo I am growing that super weed you sent me to remove Nitrates from my fish tank its doing great - thats my hydroponics set up.
No worries about any fires in my garage as I still have the in-line blade fuses between the battery & positive lead.
Sado that I am I keep on nipping into the garage to re-check my parking lights - that is the glow below! 8) 8) 8)
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53173020187_fae42e2051_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2p1HCo8)500 rear led (https://flic.kr/p/2p1HCo8) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53174052730_a1072271c8_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2p1NVjA)500 Angel Eye (https://flic.kr/p/2p1NVjA) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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That superweed’s a bugger to roll though, it’s too wet for the rizzla’s
Yeah but you do that when you can’t quite get that you’ve fettled it. I was the same when I first wired the Moto gadget thingy onto the LHG’s 400. Kept bobbing out and doing the keyless ignition just to see it all come alive. Very, very satisfying
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It might be my early onset of OCD that makes me check the lights are still working. ;) ;) ;)
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Nah, just human
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Now what would you know about being human Roo?
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Nice work, it looks as happy as you sound
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230908/c7fbaff49d755ba736b7ca362dde9a48.jpg)
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Now what would you know about being human Roo?
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Over the weekend I fitted the cylinder head using the 12 flat washers & a few new head nuts kindly supplied by Ken all torqued up without event. I decided to leave the fitting of the camshaft until today so this morning revising my plan from the workshop manual & some tips here on old posts I tried to fit the chain.
I failed completely to get the chain to fit on the sprocket after 40 odd minutes of sweat getting hot & botherd so I gave up. I knew the old chain was a snug fit so my new H/D chain would be difficult. I had pub lunch with my little brother. (At lunch I was going through areas in my head that could be a cause - chain too short, tensioners not fitted correctly, self doubt starting to depress me).
At about 6.00pm this evening I decided I would have one last go for today so I did something slightly different that I suspect is of significance as the chain/spocket are now in place with the valve timing checked as per the manual.
Sorry if this is obvious to the experienced members this is what I did. Cam chain had a cable tie through it looped over the top of the frame, likewise the sprocket had a cable tie through one of the bolt holes. Crank timing marks was at TDC 1/4 position.
I then started to feed the camshaft from the right side of the engine but put the chain over the camshaft first then started to thread the camshaft throught the apatures in the sprocket until the sprocket was in place but not fully seated on the boss (cable ties removed when no danger of chain or sprocket falling into the engine). doing it from the right side - this gives you some slack - I made sure that the chain was in the right position for the two bolt holes to line up with the camshaft end marks in the right position. Checked that crank still at TDC. It is quite easy to rotate the sprocket with no chain yet in place checking the camshaft timing mark is where it should be. So visually if the chain was on the sprocket the valve timing would be correct if you get my drift.
For some reason with the chain to the right side of the boss this enables the chain to be fed onto the sprocket by hand. All that remained was to give the sprocket a little bit of leverage from the left side through one of the appertures that then lifted the sprocket onto the raised boss - bolted in place making sure a cloth covered any chance of dropping a bolt down the chain tunnel. It went on a treat - my earlier failure was starting with the chain on the left side of the sporcket so somehow doing it from the right side worked.
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Ted. You explained that far better than I ever could. Buts that’s exactly how I installed mine. Glad all is coming along well. It will be firing up time soon.
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They are a very tight fit and only go together the way Honda designed it. Can be a bugger working it out.
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So let me get my head around what you've said Ted.
You've essentially threaded the camshaft with the cam sprocket hanging loose on it through the chain, with the engine at cylinder 1 TDC, T mark 1-4 lined up with notch. You've then turned the camshaft so the slot is flush with the head surface, then sort of aligned the cam sprocket so that if you were to fit it now it the bolt holes would line up. Then mounted the chain onto the sprocket and then levered it onto the cam, bolt holes lined up, slot was still aligned and crank hadn't shifted.
If that's so then that's exactly how you should do it. I seem to think people are trying to fit the chain onto the sprocket with the sprocket mounted on the cam and that's not possible, not unless the chain really stretched that is.
It's fit cam through chain, mount chain onto sprocket and then fit sprocket onto cam, IF the holes don't line up then work out how many links you need to move so that they would, dismount sprocket, move chain and try again. Most times you're a link out.
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Essentially yes Ken that's what I did. When I tried it with the chain to the left of the sprocket first not only was it almost impossible to get the chain past the top of the rear tensioner but I just could not get the chain on the gear teeth even when it was not on the boss.
The manual just mentions passing the camshaft from the right side through the chain & sprocket without specifying the order.
I think the order is important as it affects the space you work in and the angles.
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Otherwise known as Hondaorigami
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Yes Bryan or as some might say "I've never had that problem" rather than go into detail - that's where the Devil is, 👍👍👍
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I've read my post about fitting the cam chain - it reads oddly complicated.
Put more simply the camshaft is fed from the right side loop the chain through the camshaft first, then feed the lobes through the sprocket. Doing it this way results in the chain being on the right side of the sprocket & boss on the camshaft.
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Coming on nicely, Ted.
I was wondering, did you get round to having the tank and panels painted?
Only just spotted your question - tank & side panels went to the bloke at Ilkeston - great job bike will now be Black.
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I've read my post about fitting the cam chain - it reads oddly complicated.
Put more simply the camshaft is fed from the right side loop the chain through the camshaft first, then feed the lobes through the sprocket. Doing it this way results in the chain being on the right side of the sprocket & boss on the camshaft.
Wouldn't it be easier to fit the sprocket past the lobes whilst it's off the engine Ted, leave it hanging next to where it fits and then thread it thorough the chain?
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As Ted described, the trick is the initial set up as pictured. The trick is to engage the chain on the sprocket off the cam, rotate anti-clockwise to locate the first bolt then turn clockwise to engage the second bolt. Check the alignment. If it’s incorrect reset the process, but compensating for selection of the correct cam tooth. I know you know that by the way, Ken.
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A picture paints a thousand words.👍👍👍
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I've read my post about fitting the cam chain - it reads oddly complicated.
Put more simply the camshaft is fed from the right side loop the chain through the camshaft first, then feed the lobes through the sprocket. Doing it this way results in the chain being on the right side of the sprocket & boss on the camshaft.
Wouldn't it be easier to fit the sprocket past the lobes whilst it's off the engine Ted, leave it hanging next to where it fits and then thread it thorough the chain?
It's difficult to explain but if you do it that way I found the left end of the cam grounds on the head well before it can reach the end bearing. You need to end up with the chain on the right side of the sprocket not the left. Phil's photo says it all.
On a used chain it might work if the chain is on the left side.
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A picture paints a thousand words.👍👍👍
I'll name that tune in one Ted... Telly Savalas 1975, "if a picture paints" amusingly from the right period for these bike too ;D
You're right Ted, it's awkward getting your head round some of these fiddly assembly just from description. Once into place though you can see just how it's done.
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A picture paints a thousand words.👍👍👍
I'll name that tune in one Ted... Telly Savalas 1975, "if a picture paints" amusingly from the right period for these bike too ;D
You're right Ted, it's awkward getting yourself head round some of these fiddly assembly just from description. Once into place though you can see just how it's donnce /quote]
It is indeed K2-K6 plus my negative inner self is telling me I must have the guides in wrong whilst my "you can do it" side of my brain says no you did them right and tries to calmly look at all the angles.
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Going to be doing just this in a few days time. Feel like I’ve had such a good primer. Did you hone the bores or fit new piston rings Ted ?
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Telly Savalas butchered that song originaly sung by David Gates of Bread(the group not the tv series)
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Telly Savalas butchered that song originaly sung by David Gates of Bread(the group not the tv series)
“Where’s me lunch” 😂😂
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Going to be doing just this in a few days time. Feel like I’ve had such a good primer. Did you hone the bores or fit new piston rings Ted ?
Bryan did the rebore plus a heavy duty cam chain fron Ken there was a brief moment when I thought the chain was half a link too tight!😁😁😁
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Even a new oe chain is tight to put on Ted, plus I’ve never seen a chain qouted in half links, like 88.5 for example 😀😀
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Even a new oe chain is tight to put on Ted, plus I’ve never seen a chain qouted in half links, like 88.5 for example 😀😀
I jest about the half link - a full link would be too loose, the old chain was a sod to get off as well.
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Yeah, I was pulling your leg as well. It's a bit like fitting the primary chain when it's new, sometimes it needs a helping hand to get it to fit. Whilst a part worn one just falls on.
Oddly, I've never had a problem removing a camchain, I tend to remove the 2 bolts and knock the sprocket off the cam, loads of slack then.
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Cam cover now finally in place so that is the engine unit buttoned up for winter. Currently sorting out the carburetors that should not need too much work doing to them as they were restored a couple of years or so ago by Gerben. Standing has taken its toll with rusty carb bowl screws and what appears to be loose O rings that I will replace.
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Hit a small snag when assembling my cleaned carbs with new O rings using NJ's excellent kit.
The first three carbs went together a treat but number four carb has one stripped bowl thread - not too bad just one out of 16 screws - almost half the screws were rusted so probably due to removing a screw that was rusted.
IIRC from DomP post a M4 Helicoil will sort it - any links to a suitable repair kit welcome - I am a Helicoil virgin regarding DIY kits so any advice is welcome. I assume kits come with a drill bit - can this be done hand held as I do not have a pillar drill?
I will look on U tube for an idiots guide.
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Don’t drill unless you really need to. In alloy the metal is so soft you can normally just use the tap to enlarge the hole. I’ve done loads of M4 repairs in carbs and they’ve all lasted. Buy a kit off eBay
The insert is normally a few threads too long so cut a couple of threads off.
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Just buy the correct length heli-coils ;)
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That's what's in the kit. Why spend money on others when you can just cut down the ones provided. ;)
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Petrol pipe & vent tubing arrived today so now have the carbs ready for fitting to the mainiolds - I will attach them to the bike and test for fuel bowl valve leaks.
I know they are only fuel vents but think I will slip some new short pipes in between the carb bank as the left one is a tad manky.
Bench synch done.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53268094844_6a81e86ae6_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pa7ULm)500 carbs (https://flic.kr/p/2pa7ULm) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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Adjuster screws seem high to me Ted, you may find hanging idle with them that high. Try winding them all right down and then bench sync with a 2mm drill instead of a 3mm one, wind the idle adjusting thumb screw right out so it's not touching the lifter arm.
Also open the choke and check all the flaps are level when the chokes fully open.
Pic from the front as well please, I'd like to see how that ceramic chrome effect bracket looks when all the carbs are fitted.
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I thought they looked high as well - I used a 3/32" drill bit.
I did wonder if it was the links as they look like thin SS ones that Gerben fitted.
I'll pop a picture up from the other side in the morning.
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No the figure 8 links are really thin anyway.
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My idle adjuster thumb screw was not fully wound out - about a quater to a third turn off the stop - does that affect the screw height?
I did this intentionally so if my idle ended up too high it left me with a bit to play with as I could lower the slider height evenly. Presumably me doing that has lifted the other part of the linkage so more thread shows.
Would I be better off unscrewing the thumb screw off the stop completely then setting the sliders at say the thickness of a pop rivett shaft?
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The thumb screw needs to be fully wound out so it's not touching. When it does start to touch it lifts ALL the lifter arms, the screw doesn't move, that's there to lift each arm separately so the slide are the same level. Unless the thumb screw is fully wound out you can't do the bench sync as it will be miles out.
Try winding the screws right out. Look down the front of the slides, they should be fully bottomed, now do each screw in turn until you see the slide just start to lift, stop there. Do each screw so the slide is just starting to lift. Then screw in the thumb screw and you should see them all lift at the same time, when they do check they all look the same. This way the slides will be fully shut if the thumb screw is wound back out again in the event the tickover is too high or it starts to fast idle etc.
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I like that idea Ken - if all the sliders are just on the point of opening then a hanging throttle shoud be banished.
I guess also pressing down on the brass cap will give little movement from the above setting.
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wow, they are so clean, quite astonishing. Also, your workshop looks very smart too. i think it would take me about a hundred years to get mine anywhere near as tidy.
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Lol that's not my workshop Steve it's a shallow plastic box I use when dismantling items when I do not want to loose any bits like washers, springs etc. In colder weather I put the box in my old fishhouse that is a sort of office.
My garage sink area is my untidy area as is the area around my indoor buffing wheel .
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53269558258_dbe9791728_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pafpMC)PXL_20231019_084502946 (https://flic.kr/p/2pafpMC) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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What have you put over the linkage rod retaining screw Ted?
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What have you put over the linkage rod retaining screw Ted?
Some Hondabond!
More precisely a big blob😁😁😁
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Why, just use a little thread lock.
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Why, just use a little thread lock.
My thread lock could not be found so used what was to hand.👍👍👍
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Carbs now fitted & air filter housing in place.
Fitted small gromett to air filter lid so it holds onto the bolt head at the front.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53282044794_11ca4ca07f_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pbmpAJ)airbox fitted (https://flic.kr/p/2pbmpAJ) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53282190285_830e604b85_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pbn9Rc)carbs back on (https://flic.kr/p/2pbn9Rc) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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coming on Ted, she looks great! ;)
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No fuse holder Ted?
Missing the black plastic cover off the kickstart lever. Keeps the crap out of the knuckle joint. Seem to recall someone making them and selling them on Ebay. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/143595737695?hash=item216ef9125f:g:ZOQAAOSw3axerz5U&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAAwLuy3C3OQhU4zlKnwPJLWjEOmwDTqoW1C5kHiSHqlK85R9s%2F5Q6TMEOfXlqcNbqJJsd7ra2JWQx4GyVXOhS5%2Bk9W3%2FFJOy419uId7Ul%2BEjAusA%2FC%2Fm78u6CDjZqKs0nfY954LwyCiRg%2FQPaQHRBhuXuzTdscUV%2F2BO%2Bz7AgJmZutQsZX0n%2Fsx8aMgGi89k7gTVzQpkPuST7waq%2BRreNqsCqPFaEnmpbNpI%2B6a5d82EqUPIJ%2BYpjj09AlH8SdA2UUcg%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR9Dw4ZLsYg
Be careful using domed nuts on the intake manifolds, I've found that unless they are really deep ones there is a chance the nut bottoms out on the bolt, you think it's tightened up so you stop, then you find it isn't tight and it's allowing air to be pulled in past the oring.
Something like these are better. I use those on the exhaust studs as well, keeps the thread from rusting and you struggling to remove them afterwards.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/295955048209?hash=item44e84ba711:g:XTMAAOSwZ5llFtdk&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA0Cteh8SGnUw1Cx5gGQNUNWk%2Fejj9ygmWcb8sM%2BhHl0q6dxR6LxnzIdhQmbm51gnqCo1%2FHHZ0GzUsS04C%2B8dIhZ34JXoy4Q9ylIvKkGC2s69LhsmX4ZDDMCUZcyX5jKJMOUVTnMRGxF3m%2B9uKL3JLDnxsAVdhxZib3GaqcA6JIHbbib1Mod1rT%2BmUFDXckfd%2FUIlBrXbmdQlVJkX7D9r2p2GmTHHvC0xL1cIpssi6T%2B8tRrmIi8YMZferhjonCygZpot%2FOBVxUJ8Yrv6p5Zio5j8%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR5qKx5LsYg
Not supposed to be a grommet on the tooltray Ted although I suspect you know that. It doesn't rattle in use so it's not really needed TBH.
The HT cap shown is wrong for that location, that's for 2 & 3 cylinders, the outer ones use a long right angled one.
Coming on, starting to look the part. I suspect the breather cover is off a 550 BTW, the vent pipe outlet comes out on the other side to the 500 one IIRC.
Pay attention to the way the bolt fits for the rear brake lever adjusting bolt, can't remember offhand which way it fits, bolt head down or up but it's one you can't change over without removing stuff so it's better to get it right before fitting the brake lever. The workshop manual shows it bolt head up but there is a pic in there I'm convinced shows it bolt head down. I'd fit it bolt head up myself.
NOT criticisms, just comments you may or may not find useful.
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Just remembered this thread on the USA site, it's a 550K but almost the same as the 500.
On post 1 he does something I didn't think was possible and answers your "Am I stupid ?" thread question.
Have a look, you may find his very detailed thread of use to you as well.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,86697.100.html
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If you are looking to sell the airbox cover to replce with a 500 one Ted I be interested in yours. Mine is missing
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Ted has a 500 Dom, the 550F doesn't have a tooltray due to the snorkel that was fitted to that model.
You need a tooltray Dom? Roo has a couple but I doubt they are cheap as they are as rare as hell. Most have the wire mesh rusted to hell as well so you need to replace that with some stainless steel stuff like Ted has
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No fuse holder Ted?
Missing the black plastic cover off the kickstart lever. Keeps the crap out of the knuckle joint. Seem to recall someone making them and selling them on Ebay. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/143595737695?hash=item216ef9125f:g:ZOQAAOSw3axerz5U&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAAwLuy3C3OQhU4zlKnwPJLWjEOmwDTqoW1C5kHiSHqlK85R9s%2F5Q6TMEOfXlqcNbqJJsd7ra2JWQx4GyVXOhS5%2Bk9W3%2FFJOy419uId7Ul%2BEjAusA%2FC%2Fm78u6CDjZqKs0nfY954LwyCiRg%2FQPaQHRBhuXuzTdscUV%2F2BO%2Bz7AgJmZutQsZX0n%2Fsx8aMgGi89k7gTVzQpkPuST7waq%2BRreNqsCqPFaEnmpbNpI%2B6a5d82EqUPIJ%2BYpjj09AlH8SdA2UUcg%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR9Dw4ZLsYg
Be careful using domed nuts on the intake manifolds, I've found that unless they are really deep ones there is a chance the nut bottoms out on the bolt, you think it's tightened up so you stop, then you find it isn't tight and it's allowing air to be pulled in past the oring.
Something like these are better. I use those on the exhaust studs as well, keeps the thread from rusting and you struggling to remove them afterwards.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/295955048209?hash=item44e84ba711:g:XTMAAOSwZ5llFtdk&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA0Cteh8SGnUw1Cx5gGQNUNWk%2Fejj9ygmWcb8sM%2BhHl0q6dxR6LxnzIdhQmbm51gnqCo1%2FHHZ0GzUsS04C%2B8dIhZ34JXoy4Q9ylIvKkGC2s69LhsmX4ZDDMCUZcyX5jKJMOUVTnMRGxF3m%2B9uKL3JLDnxsAVdhxZib3GaqcA6JIHbbib1Mod1rT%2BmUFDXckfd%2FUIlBrXbmdQlVJkX7D9r2p2GmTHHvC0xL1cIpssi6T%2B8tRrmIi8YMZferhjonCygZpot%2FOBVxUJ8Yrv6p5Zio5j8%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR5qKx5LsYg
Not supposed to be a grommet on the tooltray Ted although I suspect you know that. It doesn't rattle in use so it's not really needed TBH.
The HT cap shown is wrong for that location, that's for 2 & 3 cylinders, the outer ones use a long right angled one.
Coming on, starting to look the part. I suspect the breather cover is off a 550 BTW, the vent pipe outlet comes out on the other side to the 500 one IIRC.
Pay attention to the way the bolt fits for the rear brake lever adjusting bolt, can't remember offhand which way it fits, bolt head down or up but it's one you can't change over without removing stuff so it's better to get it right before fitting the brake lever. The workshop manual shows it bolt head up but there is a pic in there I'm convinced shows it bolt head down. I'd fit it bolt head up myself.
NOT criticisms, just comments you may or may not find useful.
Thanks for the feedback Ken it is very helpful.
I expected some comments on my excessive use of copper washers on the cam cover.
My temporary fuse holder was on the live side - now removed - what fuse holder do you mean?
The domed manifold nuts were fitted by Bryan and are a tall domed type.
Plug caps - my bad just wanted the overlong wires out of the way.
I fitted the grommet to hold down the front of the tray as it tends to stand up on the left side with no seat in place.
I'll see if one of my rubber blanking grommets fits the kick start - I might even have one from a 400 lever I had.
Sorry in advance Ash for the SS Hex Head side cover bolts - fitted by PO.
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Not me Ted, man who built engine was mad on stainless dome nuts for some reason, as you probably noticed
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I have fitted the new throttle cables this afternoon - throttle return is okay but feels a little bit three penny bit on the return when you let go of the throttle completely. Action feels like a sort of spiral binding.
Should I have lubricated the new cables first?
My cable routing might be questionable as they pass through the forks.
Nice reduced amount of throttle rotation needed for full throttle as a result of fitting the throttle tube that Ken told me about. (CB1300)
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No lube on Honda cables Ted, ruins the sleeving and coating.
Routing is very important, should be something on Ashs dropbox, pdi i think that shows route
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You can use silicon oil to lube the cable inners Ted, only silicon oil though. Check to see if they are aftermarket ones, the genuine have a teflon sleeve over the braided inner cable, aftermarket tend not to. Routing is VITAL on those and the clutch able. Check 550 appendum as there is a routing guide in that..
Fuse holder goes in the little slot in the tooltray, it holds 3 spare fuses which is vital for the 500 as it only has a single fuse and if it blows everything dies, and I mean everything. You're pushing it home if the fuse blows and you don't have a replacement handy. Very hard to find, even I have only one.
One of these.
https://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cb500k1-four-england_model14660/case-fuse_38205323000/
Quite rare, Graham had some made a few years ago, no idea where he got them done. Maybe 3D printed?
The tooltray must be bent if it sits up at the front, it shouldn't. Maybe a little heat and some persuasion is needed.
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No lube on Honda cables Ted, ruins the sleeving and coating.
Routing is very important, should be something on Ashs dropbox, pdi i think that shows route
Thanks I will take a look.
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Ted, that bike is coming along nicely, some nice work done there. Looking forward to start up!
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Ted, that bike is coming along nicely, some nice work done there. Looking forward to start up!
Thanks Johnny nice to get some positive strokes - that said I also take on board comments that point out things thate are wrong or missing.
When my 500 is done I have decided before thinking about another proect to re-visit my 400 as there are some things I can now do better.
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Ted has a 500 Dom, the 550F doesn't have a tooltray due to the snorkel that was fitted to that model.
You need a tooltray Dom? Roo has a couple but I doubt they are cheap as they are as rare as hell. Most have the wire mesh rusted to hell as well so you need to replace that with some stainless steel stuff like Ted has
I just have an open topped airbox at the moment Ken but running a 500 filter due to missing so many of the 550 internals. I'd just like to be able to close it off somehow as I'd imagine it will mess with the carb set up as it is
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Good progress Ted. Why did you use copper rather than ss washers on the valve cover ? I would love to see a photo of those bolts you used next to the tappet covers on the front. Your engine paint looks great. I’m way behind now - haven’t rebuilt my carbs yet. Looking forward to your first start up. 👍
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I've three or four left Dom but go to the states in the morning and back in December. I guess youre not in a rush but just to say Ive a few lurking if you need one. :)
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Need to be soft washers on the 6 central bolts David as they seal against oil coming up the bolt. SS would be too hard.
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Workshop manual or parts book shows the six bolts use copper washers. When I bought the pack I just used the left overs rather than SS. The small ones at the front corners are flange bolts.
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Just catching up on this. Lookin good Ted.
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Good progress Ted. Why did you use copper rather than ss washers on the valve cover ? I would love to see a photo of those bolts you used next to the tappet covers on the front. Your engine paint looks great. I’m way behind now - haven’t rebuilt my carbs yet. Looking forward to your first start up. 👍
Photo of bolt Dave only fitted them to the two outer front bolt holes where the issues were with fitting the cam caps due to cost.
Cam caps in photo have not been cleaned up as I have some standard replacements - the chromed ones I bought from DS are too bling as well as my concern over the threads.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53283470422_0d20764226_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pbtHow)cam cover bolt (https://flic.kr/p/2pbtHow) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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Not sure what specifically did it but I spent some time on the throttle cable adjustments for opening & closing plus altered the angle of the point where the cable unions connect to the throttle body so that the curves on the cables followed the line better. I did look in Ash's Dropbox but could not find anything that helped me. (probably looked in the wrong places)
ATM the cable routes go from the the throttle, loop down between the forks then follow the frame above the round tank mount (can easily be moved to below the mount above the coils). Photos to follow as I'm going out for lunch & my phone connection is on my PC not the laptop I'm using.
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Ted I had mine below the tank mounts on the 550 but they were having a tendency to hook around the lower corner of the fuel tank when manouvering. Definately I would say above the tank mounts can’t drop from there.
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Those bolts Roo are the 8mm headed ones used on modern Hondas and since the 250N era.
They are the ones I keep advising people to use but everyone ignores me, except my mate Ted of course and Nigel, you know who your friends are after a while :P :P :P
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See if this works
(https://i.postimg.cc/76nPNDLc/image.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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These might be better
(https://i.postimg.cc/Vs4nfPFD/IMG-3437.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/c6grhj2n)
(https://i.postimg.cc/x8dkJqPg/IMG-3438.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nj6VNFgQ)
So over the fork top on the top yoke, through the gap in the speedo/tacho bracket, round to the left of the headstock, under/over the tank mount rubber (which is odd as one image shows it above and one below, see which looks right, I suspect below as it would bend the cables less) through the gap in the frame where the coils sit and onto the carb bracket.
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Just had a thought Ted, make sure the throttle thumb screw ramp in the R/H switchgear isn't wound up too high and is touching the throttle tube. That would make the throttle grab a little.
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Thanks for the pics Ken, I saw something similar on the PDI pics for the 500. (USA bars I suspect as the throttle cables are above the clocks and feed down through that slot/hole in the bracket)
I tried to route my throttle cables through the hole in the speedo bracket as per the photo. The cables would somehow have to get past the rev counter with not much of a gap, swooping up from the throttle grip below the bars through a tight gap near the master cylinder pipe then tight down thought the instrument bracket. They were routed better above the master cylinder but ended up part over the rev counter.
Hence why am now as per these photos.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53285405569_6ff8b38f08_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pbDCD8)throttle route 1 (https://flic.kr/p/2pbDCD8) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53284144657_bf22aac586_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pbxaPg)throttle route 1 front view (https://flic.kr/p/2pbxaPg) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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Just had a thought Ted, make sure the throttle thumb screw ramp in the R/H switchgear isn't wound up too high and is touching the throttle tube. That would make the throttle grab a little.
One problem at a time Ken I have not fitted the ramp yet but the hole in my switch gear is threaded so will look at that eventually.
I have very loosly tried my clutch cable route - from the bar lever, drops down the slot/apperture in the instrument bracket out on the RHS then through the coil frame hole to the left side down through the gap between carbs 1 & 2 to the forwards facing hole in the left side housing.
The route looks good except there seems to be excess loops of cable near the tank area - I did wonder if there is a shorter cable for the UK 500 & mine is an aftermarket one. The cable is in good condition - even the rubber bellows at the engine end looks like new.
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I'd leave the top routing alone but route the cables around the other side of the headstock and through the coil opening Ted. See how that feels. The tighter the bends the worse the throttle feels.
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I was on about air box lids Ken so shove yer bolts
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Ted I had mine below the tank mounts on the 550 but they were having a tendency to hook around the lower corner of the fuel tank when manouvering. Definately I would say above the tank mounts can’t drop from there.
Presumably Johnny both your throttle cables were not routed between the forks but to the right side of the frame?
I think that what Ken is suggesting. Do you have any tips regarding the clutch cable route?
At the moment though not connected at the engine end, mine goes from the handlebar lever down the hole in the instrument bracket, crossing to the right side of the frame then crossing to the left side of the frame through the gap at the rear above the coils. Finally dropping down between intakes 1 & 2 so the cable reaches the hole on the left side engine cover.
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Clutch sounds right from memory Ted, big thing is as straight as possible up from casing adjuster
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Do you know the correct length of a UK clutch cable Bryan as I suspect mine is for US bars?
The only way I can find to route mine without loads of 'spare cable' is by routing it not through the hole in the instrument bracket but as it was when I originally rode the bike - the cable passes over the speedo going down to the right side of the frame between the forks. This route does mean the clutch cable passes high over the speedo clock. See below photo as it was.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53285919313_0dd382fae4_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pbGgmM)clutch cable (https://flic.kr/p/2pbGgmM) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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Cant remember Ted think it was a new pattern one
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I have measured the clutch outer cable from ferrule tip to ferrule tip (excluding the adjusters) it is 4ft 1/16" so that's a nominal 4 ft - with my cable routed in what looks like the best route (#).
That looks like an excess of six to seven and a half inches of outer cable,
# My route is currentky from the clutch lever down through slot in the instrument bracket coming out on the right side of the frame routing above the tank mount then passing through the far end of the coil gap in the frame down between carbs 1 & 2 and into the left side cover.
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Try this Ted. http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=139600.0
Appreciate it’s about throttle cables, but includes some clues
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Try this Ted. http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=139600.0
Appreciate it’s about throttle cables, but includes some clues
Interesting read Phillip, some books & owners seem to show/say throttle cable runs down the left side of the frame others the right side.
I am now happy with my throttle cables running down the right side - they no longer stick - it seems the cable curve/run makes for a smooth operation - even if it's not original. I can't test effect of steering as I have no wheels in place atm.
All the things I have read appear to agree that the clutch cable starts on the right side then crosses over at the coils to the left - this looks good to me.
If I route my clutch cable through the instrument bracket I have loads of spare cable looping.
Even if I route it as it was not throught the instruments but between the right side of the forks there is an excess of cable loop.
The clincher will be when I know what the correct clutch cable outer length is excluding the adjuster for a UK 500.
If my cable is correct at 4ft then the route certainly can't be through the instrument bracket - I suspect that is for the higher US bars.
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A genuine UK clutch cable is 107cm from ferrule to ferrule, or 42" if you prefer.
I don't think it routes through the coil opening Ted, I suspect you are correct in saying through the clock bracket down the right side of the frame but I think it crosses to the left just where the throttle cables join the carbs, just before there where the frame starts to flatten out. It then goes through the carbs between 1 & 2 and into the sprocket cover.
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I've been looking at pics in the workshop manual Ted, figure 245 shows cable routing for the 500, shows both the clutch AND the throttle cables passing through the speedo bracket, throttle cables then go to the LEFT of the headstock and pass through the coil opening, figure 272 shows them there along with what looks to be the clutch doing the same thing but in reverse. The throttle cables appear to be above the tank mount but I would have thought below before seeing that pic, however they could have moved before the pic was taken and not spotted, I seem to recall putting the tank on and making sure they went under the rubber.
Figure 299 shows the clutch cable passing through 1 & 2 inlet manifold bracket, as does fig 86 and fig 56. In fig 310 you can clearly see both throttle cables to the LEFT of the headstock
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Hi Ken I have seen that throttle cable route through the instrument bracket to the left side of the frame - even worse imho as it's a tight turn up from the throttle grip down into the instruments then back throught the coils to the carb connection on the right side of the frame.
The carb shaft mechanism sits to the riight of centre so atm I prefer my route even if its wrong.
Thanks for the info on the clutch cable being 42" mine is aftermarket - I will see what the clutch cable looks like if not routed through the coil hole. Most of the manual photos seem to show it going through the coil hole area - that's how mine was routed but not through the instrument bracket.
Advantage of the clutch cable going through the coil hole is it drops at a nice non binding looking angle between the carbs to the left housing.
Oh what fun. ;D ;D ;D
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There's something wrong Ted IF the throttle cables are having tight turns when routed correctly. They should exit the right hand switchgear pointing almost straight along the bars, not pointing forward so much. This then points them toward the hole in the speedo bracket. Are they like that?
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There's something wrong Ted IF the throttle cables are having tight turns when routed correctly. They should exit the right hand switchgear pointing almost straight along the bars, not pointing forward so much. This then points them toward the hole in the speedo bracket. Are they like that?
Exactly that is why I think the manual routes are wrong for the Uk bars as the throttle grip is not above clocks tops but almost level with them. On the US bars they would drop down nicely between the clocks.
On my bike when the throttle cables exit the bars the fixed right angle part of the cable ends means they are pointing not dead horizontaly but very slightly downwards exiting approximately 3" below the centre line of the switch clamps. The instrument bracket is about an inch and a half below the centre line of the bars but is also angled. The path between the instrument bracket hole and the throttle grip body is not a straight line as the rev counter is in the way.
For the cables to then go upwards they have somehow get past the front of the rev counter as there is no space at the rear of the rev counter due to the brake hose etc. This route is not viable for me - not to mention crossing through the coil gap as well.
You can see there are no tight bends with my present routing plus it should not cause issues when turning left or right as there is just the one gentle swoop/curve of cable.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53285405569_bb76f3c412_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pbDCD8)throttle route 1 (https://flic.kr/p/2pbDCD8) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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There is no routing plan in the handbook for UK models Ted. I'll take a photo of my UK K1 routing for you tomorrow.
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Thanks Julie, I agree the bars in the photos clearly look higher than the UK ones even in the schematic sketches they look unlike the UK bars.
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These are pictures of my USA K0 as I believe Honda installed it:
Ignore The small wire loom going near the cable in the 2nd picture. This was a standard USA mod where they raised the ignition switch to the bars.
I have three new clutch cables:
Andy Cepok UK type: 1.03m
DS UK type: 1.07m
22870-323-020 still in bag that I think is USA type: 1.12m
I also have a note saying UK type should be 0.99m (3ft 3in)
You can also see the throttle cable passing the other way through the gap above the coils.
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That is an interesting photo as though the throttle cables are on the left side of the frame they are not visible as routing between the clock bracket.
The clutch cable route is the one I will follow as it's how it was when I bought the bike.
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Just to add the pics are with US bars. I have now fitted UK bars and the new cable follows the same route...I think.
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Bars genuine or copy Ted? Sat with the dots aligned?
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Bars genuine or copy Ted? Sat with the dots aligned?
My bars are not genuine Honda so no dots to align - I have the location holes for the switches & cables so the bar position is basically what looks level & right with the levers etc.
I'm happy with my throttle action even if it's contrary to the manual I need to fit the clutch cable route so it works properly as it did before even if it means the cable loop near the clocks.
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These are pictures of my USA K0 as I believe Honda installed it:
Ignore The small wire loom going near the cable in the 2nd picture. This was a standard USA mod where they raised the ignition switch to the bars.
I have three new clutch cables:
Andy Cepok UK type: 1.03m
DS UK type: 1.07m
22870-323-020 still in bag that I think is USA type: 1.12m
I also have a note saying UK type should be 0.99m (3ft 3in)
You can also see the throttle cable passing the other way through the gap above the coils.
Surely that would depend on where you measured them from? I know mine is a genuine UK one from around 1979, back then I doubt any parts depts had any USA stock as imports were almost non existent back then. There is quite a large mark on the sheathing of the cable, right through to the inner braided steel outer, I'd imagine that roughly complies with where yours passes around the tank mount. Next time I fit the cable I intend to split some fuel line and position it so the cable gets some protection.
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[quote author=Seabeowner link=topic=28541.msg290712#msg290712 date=1698342710
I have three new clutch cables:
Andy Cepok UK type: 1.03m
I also have a note saying UK type should be 0.99m (3ft 3in)
[/quote]
Those two cable lengths are shorter than mine M {48" - 1.22m) I have located one on e-bay a. Wemoto part that is 40.5" including the adjuster (1.02m) worth a punt at £12.
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Why not just buy an original UK one Ted? always better quality.
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Why not just buy an original UK one Ted? always better quality.
It might not fit (my bars are not genuine) on the routing I want so decided a DS one (22870-323-621) was a bit pricey for a trial at £54.29 plus postage. At just under £12 it's cheap enough to try plus the seller took the trouble to measure it up for me.
Interestingly my old cable still has the part number on the outer sheath it is 22870-392-000 not sure what model that was for originally. Not sure what -392- part refers to - google says a CB750 A
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Replacement clutch cable arrived this morning - fitted at lever end routed throught the instrument bracket gap over to the right side of the frame - loops past the bottom of the coils dropping just right down between the carbs 1 & 2.
The cable is around 8" shorter now fitted at the bottom end.
New cable has the extra outer protective sheath plus the bottom ajustment shroed - presumable that is to enhance cable protection when it passes through the frame or it could be for between the carb banks.
Good to be rid of the 8" of spare cable!
Updated
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All the genuine clutch cables should have the extra outer sleeving that starts nearer the bars end. The black rubber block (grey on early cables) just slides down as far as it goes at the engine end.
All my measurements were outer cable only, including engine end adjuster.
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All the genuine clutch cables should have the extra outer sleeving that starts nearer the bars end. The black rubber block (grey on early cables) just slides down as far as it goes at the engine end.
All my measurements were outer cable only, including engine end adjuster.
They were spot on thanks I am happy now with the correct length clutch cable, the routing is I believe now correct - the clutch action at the lever seems to be fine though clearly can't be sure until its a runner but the lever action feels spot on with adjustment available in either direction if needed. 👍👍😁
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Now that the clutch route is correct it's nagging me to change the throttle cable routing - I definitely can't go down
via the instrument bracket but could do much closer to the correct route - from the bars down through the front forks to the left side of the frame, crossing over to the right side at the coil gap to the carbs.
With my luck the currently smooth throttle action might be lost.
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Ted, the 392 middle number i for the CB750 F and the 76 version as well
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Not going to re-route the throttle cables now as my route is quite common - similar to my 400 routing.
Only if I experience unwanted steering interference will I change them.
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Just bought a NOS 22870-323-621 Clutch cable off Ebay for £13 plus P&P. I was going to get one from CMS until I snapped that up.
If I spot another Ted, I'll let you know.
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That's a bargain Ken, £50 from CMS!
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Before the temperature falls any further decided to check the engine for oil pumping, plugs removed, on the third three second burst the oil light flickered before going out. Took a peek at the rockers there was oil on top of the valve springs.
Lastly checked the kick start worked - that's pretty much me done on the 500 until I fit the wheels & an exhaust system in the new year.
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Getting really close now Ted. 👍
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Ted, I'm nearly at the point of getting my 550 back I'm the frame so thinking along the same lines as you regarding the cold and engine internals as I'm going to have to save up a bit before the exhaust system goes on. Are you going to leave your engine topped up with oil and turn it over now and again until spring before you run it in?
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Yes I will crank it over every couple of weeks to get the oil circulating and the gears turning over in the new oil.
I'm completely undecided about the exhaust system - if Ernie is good to me I might splash out for the 4 pipe system. The Delkevic system otherwise.
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Getting really close now Ted. 👍
Yes indeed.👍👍👍
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Before the temperature falls any further decided to check the engine for oil pumping, plugs removed, on the third three second burst the oil light flickered before going out. Took a peek at the rockers there was oil on top of the valve springs.
Lastly checked the kick start worked - that's pretty much me done on the 500 until I fit the wheels & an exhaust system in the new year.
It’s reassuring to see oil pressure is there after all that work inside the engine isn’t it? I’m fitting a delkevichb4 into 1 on mine - that’s what I had in the 70’s and it frees me up not to get over worried about trying to recreate an oem original bike - just one that looks good and works well and has my labour invested in it.
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I kept a bike indoors once for the winter, it was when I was actually rebuilding the 500 I'm doing again now. It had never been run, in the spring when I was getting ready to get it ready for the road I checked the oil only to find it was full of water, clearly condensation was running down the insides of the cases and collecting in the sump, me kicking the bike over ever week or so had just mixed it all up like mayonnaise. I ended up taking the engine completely apart again just to clean it out of all the cracks and crevices, luckily I was still in the trade then so the gaskets were cheap. No damage or rust in the engine but bloody annoying even so.
Keep that in mind.
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Before the temperature falls any further decided to check the engine for oil pumping, plugs removed, on the third three second burst the oil light flickered before going out. Took a peek at the rockers there was oil on top of the valve springs.
Lastly checked the kick start worked - that's pretty much me done on the 500 until I fit the wheels & an exhaust system in the new year.
It’s reassuring to see oil pressure is there after all that work inside the engine isn’t it? I’m fitting a delkevichb4 into 1 on mine - that’s what I had in the 70’s and it frees me up not to get over worried about trying to recreate an oem original bike - just one that looks good and works well and has my labour invested in it.
Which silencer option will you go for the Mega or the other one?
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This is the silencer I got with the bike. It’s new as the 4 into 4 fitted when imported was unsalvageable. I thought about spending 1200 quid with DS but reflected that this is a nostalgia project for me and the bike I rode to Italy and back in 1979 had a similar 4 into 1. It’s liberating if your bike is for personal use not to be nailed to the cross of originality.
[attachimg=1]
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Nailed to the cross of originality, a very good description of a lot of people imo
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But as its a US bike not a UK one originality relies on paperwork and others memory
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This is the silencer I got with the bike. It’s new as the 4 into 4 fitted when imported was unsalvageable. I thought about spending 1200 quid with DS but reflected that this is a nostalgia project for me and the bike I rode to Italy and back in 1979 had a similar 4 into 1. It’s liberating if your bike is for personal use not to be nailed to the cross of originality.
(Attachment Link)
That looks like the Megaphone version.👍👍👍
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But as its a US bike not a UK one originality relies on paperwork and others memory
Well as we never officially got the 550K1/2 there should be no memories of them unless you're from Europe or the states that is.
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But as its a US bike not a UK one originality relies on paperwork and others memory
Well as we never officially got the 550K1/2 there should be no memories of them unless you're from Europe or the states that is.
Were there not Grey Imports back then?
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Not of those Ted, never saw one until imports from the states began in earnest. I think it was a case of the 550F was out and there were still stocks of the 500 so why bother importing essentially the same bike
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I kept a bike indoors once for the winter, it was when I was actually rebuilding the 500 I'm doing again now. It had never been run, in the spring when I was getting ready to get it ready for the road I checked the oil only to find it was full of water, clearly condensation was running down the insides of the cases and collecting in the sump, me kicking the bike over ever week or so had just mixed it all up like mayonnaise. I ended up taking the engine completely apart again just to clean it out of all the cracks and crevices, luckily I was still in the trade then so the gaskets were cheap. No damage or rust in the engine but bloody annoying even so.
Keep that in mind.
Stuck the dehumidifier on in my garage tonight!
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I kept a bike indoors once for the winter, it was when I was actually rebuilding the 500 I'm doing again now. It had never been run, in the spring when I was getting ready to get it ready for the road I checked the oil only to find it was full of water, clearly condensation was running down the insides of the cases and collecting in the sump, me kicking the bike over ever week or so had just mixed it all up like mayonnaise. I ended up taking the engine completely apart again just to clean it out of all the cracks and crevices, luckily I was still in the trade then so the gaskets were cheap. No damage or rust in the engine but bloody annoying even so.
Keep that in mind.
Stuck the dehumidifier on in my garage tonight!
You might need to bypass the meter Dom - I've not used mine since energy costs gazumped.
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I kept a bike indoors once for the winter, it was when I was actually rebuilding the 500 I'm doing again now. It had never been run, in the spring when I was getting ready to get it ready for the road I checked the oil only to find it was full of water, clearly condensation was running down the insides of the cases and collecting in the sump, me kicking the bike over ever week or so had just mixed it all up like mayonnaise. I ended up taking the engine completely apart again just to clean it out of all the cracks and crevices, luckily I was still in the trade then so the gaskets were cheap. No damage or rust in the engine but bloody annoying even so.
Keep that in mind.
Tip: You need to keep the central heating on overnight to avoid the condensation Ken.
I'm toying with the idea of one of those wardrobe tube type heaters under my bike ramp - trouble is it would need a floor to ceiling curtain round it as well. ;D ;D ;D
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It was in a small shed which is actually part of the house, however the door to it opened onto a small atrium, covered over but on the other side was another small shed which was built to be what we Northerners call the Coal Hole, so even though the house had central heating this part did not. In fact it didn't even have any plugs in, just a single light, the coal hole didn't even have that. It's all gone now, I extended the kitchen to include the coal hole and the atrium, the shed which was built as a sort of storage room by the builders is now the Utility Room, has the washer and the dryer in there and another sink for soaking clothes etc along with a very large upright freezer and a very large upright fridge along with a lot of extra cupboards. The door now opens into the enlarged kitchen and the opening in the side of the house now has a door in it which opens into my bike garage.
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That's stretching the definition of indoors Ken if it was really in the Cole Hole extension!❄️❄️❄️
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No it was in what’s now the utility room Ted, the coal hole was far too small.
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That's stretching the definition of indoors Ken if it was really in the Cole Hole extension!❄️❄️❄️
Hmmm Cole ... do you hide Alen Milleyard and Sam in there too Ken :)
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Now he should be locked away in a dark hole and the key thrown away.
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Caught my biggest ever pike at Pode Hole on 31st December 2003.
Its a word association thing!
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51525835467_34da1d9a76_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mvanKz)teds pike (https://flic.kr/p/2mvanKz) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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...don't tell 'em Pike...
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As Wendy is away this week I took my wheel hubs to CWC for them to rebuild to my specification - looks like it will be the end of January or early February before they are done.
I've been trying to paint the chain guard finding the ambient air temperature not condusive to rattle can painting in my unheated garage - bike work has now effectively ground to a halt until spring.
My seat has had a new cover but the metal base has surface corrosion on the edges where the clips have scratched the paint.
The seat foam does not look great where the holes are - you can see the foam degredation. Never been one for upholstery - my local guy Stan Chilton died a few years ago he fitted the new roof on our R129 a decade or more ago - he would have done a quality job.
I will post some pics of the seat for advice as what to do about it - if anything - as a teenager I would have just brush painted it with Hammerite but somehow that does not cut it for me today.
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Ted I had my K3 seat stripped and redone with new foam, cover and base blasted and powder coated. When the seat was stripped it was found to have a split on both sides of the seat pan due to flexing over the years. That alone for me made it worthwhile having it professionally done. The problem with the deteriorating foam is it can end up getting into the intake. Cant block the holes either they are there for a purpose.
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I need to find a local firm if I go for new seat foam & base powder coating that might be something for next winter - I hope to have the bike as a runner again by early May 2024.
The seat looks better from one side than the other though to a casual observer its good for a 50 year old bike - just a bit lumpy on one side for want of a better description.
The clips are LIGHTLY rusted but might clean up with a wire brush & some painting in the short term.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53369431258_3b4063c9b5_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pj5hxU)seat base (https://flic.kr/p/2pj5hxU) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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Decided to keep the seat as is due to costs until the seat has to be restored fully.
I rubbed off the rust with W & D then zinc primer left it to dry for a week.
Smooth Hammerite paint - just need to touch in a few more bits to stop it getting worse on the underneath.
Photo makes it look like I painted it with a yard brush with streak of brown - I must try a soft focus lens next time - looks better in the flesh than in the photo.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53440063959_88965def86_w.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pqjic6)PXL_20240103_123232435 (https://flic.kr/p/2pqjic6) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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Had the call today from CWC wheels are ready to collect.👍👍👍
I dropped the hubs off before Christmas 2023 - they must have plenty of work on.
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Had the call today from CWC wheels are ready to collect.👍👍👍
I dropped the hubs off before Christmas 2023 - they must have plenty of work on.
That’s quite a wait Ted! Did they indicate it would be that long when you dropped them off?
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I've just checked my build log, I dropped the bare wheel hubs off on the 30th November 2023. They said they should be done by mid February 2024 or thereabouts.
I chased them up after the 15th February by e-mail they replied that they were waiting for the Rims to come back from the Anodisers. Time scale wise it was about the same time for my 400.
On the plus side it's removed the temptation to get frozen in my garage over the winter plus time to save up too.
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Not a problem when your not in a hurry I guess.👍
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Only a problem if I drop of the perch before I get them back - not easy to sell a part restored 500 with no wheels fitted. I'm collecting them in the morning.💀💀💀
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Jesus Ted! Is the old “reaper” gaining on you? 🤣🤣🤣. Hope not!
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Only a problem if I drop of the perch before I get them back - not easy to sell a part restored 500 with no wheels fitted. I'm collecting them in the morning.💀💀💀
;D ;D Love the positive approach !
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Jesus Ted! Is the old “reaper” gaining on you? 🤣🤣🤣. Hope not!
Who knows when he will weild his Scythe - as with most folk my age we loose family, friends & ex-workmates to remind us of our mortality. Sounds morbid I see it as practical.
On the positive scale I feel no older than I did last year. 8) 8) 8)
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I collected the wheels from CWC - happy with the wheels and the left side rear sprocket carrier hub part all powder coated in a sort of chrome / alloy finish similar to my 400.
I will post some photos up later - my only disappointment was the rear brake hub that was a less than a perfect finish having a few spots & small pimples. I had what I thought was a quite defensive discussion with one of the Guys who basically said on 50 year old alloy it was the best they could do due to an issue called "Gassing" when powder coating.
In reality when the exhausts are fitted it might not be too visible - it just spoilt an otherwise good outcome.
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Isn't that because the heated it a little too much? My powder coating guy re-did my Guzzi wheels (which looked fine to me!) without me even asking. He said that the pimples / spots were because the oven temp was a little high.
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At least you have got them back Ted and can now continue the build. I had my hubs painted with Ford Silver Fox. The wheel builder took less than 24 hours to lace them up. Just waiting for my tyres now from Demon Tweaks, I bought a pair of Pirelli City Demons, they are on special offer at the moment with a 45% discount. If I could get into my bank app I would tell you how much I paid but the app is on my waterlogged phone! I know the two tyres, two pirelli inner tubes and two rim tapes cost less than £200 so maybe worth a look if you haven't bought the tyres yet.
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Thanks Dave - I had them fit the Tyres & Tubes as well - Dunlop K70's my rims are a tad wider than standard same as the rusted ones I replaced.
19 x 1.85 & 18 x 2.15.
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At least you have got them back Ted and can now continue the build. I had my hubs painted with Ford Silver Fox. The wheel builder took less than 24 hours to lace them up. Just waiting for my tyres now from Demon Tweaks, I bought a pair of Pirelli City Demons, they are on special offer at the moment with a 45% discount. If I could get into my bank app I would tell you how much I paid but the app is on my waterlogged phone! I know the two tyres, two pirelli inner tubes and two rim tapes cost less than £200 so maybe worth a look if you haven't bought the tyres yet.
Waterlogged phone?? Cmon give us a laugh!😜
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Isn't that because the heated it a little too much? My powder coating guy re-did my Guzzi wheels (which looked fine to me!) without me even asking. He said that the pimples / spots were because the oven temp was a little high.
My hubs are okay - if it bugs me in the furure I can have the brake plate re-done next winter - the Guy at CWC was a Brummy with the famous patter so I accepted his reasoning that it was old alluminium causing the gassing problem. I had done some preparation on the brake plate beforehand as well.
Despite the warmer weather I am leaving fitting the wheel bearigs until I've done some other household tasks plus some garden work. I plan to ride the 400 as soon as the weather really warms up for me - I can finish the 500 build if we have a wet summer. My original plan to have the 500 done for my Birthday in early May 2024 has been put back a month or two.
Never say never - atm the 500 is my last full project - I've gone off the Maicoletta idea for now as there is a very small pool to choose from with all the attendant parts finding problems. Might all change when I go to Stafford Bike Show as the Maico Owners Club will be there.
I haven't the room for 3 bikes and despite it being too small for me I like the 400 more each time I ride her so I can't bear the thought of it having to go to make room for a Scooter.
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Another shed Ted!😜 (and it rythmes)
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My opinion for what it’s worth Ted. Don’t sell your 400 Ted after all that time , effort, blood sweat and tears. Only you know and can fully appreciate how much has gone into it. Going slow and tinkering away with the 500 will keep you garage busy this summer. Wthrres no rush if you’ve got a bike to ride and enjoy. When both are finished would be a good time to think about another project, if any. 👍
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You speak the truth David - my first project is like my first GSDog only death parted us after 14 years. ;D ;D ;D
PS Not to mention the Money Pit balance!
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Not worthy of any photos as it's a pretty mundane task needing a bit of energy with a medium sized lump hammer.
So this morning fitted the front wheel bearings in my 500 hubs.
As well as the bearings being kept in the freezer for a couple of days I warmed up the hubs a tad with one of Wendy's old Hairdriers on full heat as I did not want to risk anything hotter.
I had checked that the new retainer fitted the threaded section beforehand.
After fitting the bearing the new retainer did not want to go in by hand - I started to panic.
I saw that there was a slight bit of thread near one of the four original stake marks that was slightly flattened - probably caught the edge with my drift tool.
I used the old retainer as a sort of thread cleaner after loading it with grease. (I cut four slots across the width of the thread, wire brush and remove any burrs.)
New retainer then went in by hand after clearing out any debris in the grease.
I have a small piece of plastic speed fit pipe with a slot along it's length that I use to hold the retainer in position when fitting the second bearing. It might have been my imagination but the bearings seemed to knock in a tad easier with the added heat on the hub.
I could not find a torque setting so settled for very tight plus a bit of extra on two opposing slots with a small screwdriver blade.
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Sounds like good work done there Ted! Satisfying end to a small crisis.👍
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It was a sheer panic moment at first Johnny - front wheel is now fitted with caliper in place just leaves torquing up the front of the axle clamps, then the rear.wheel bearing to fit.
Currently starting work on the rear hubs.👍👍👍
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That’s a proper old mechanic trick for cleaning up the thread. Satisfying to get the nest bearings in 👍
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It's something my late father taught me when I was in my early teens David and have never forgotten.
Not done it for several decades though as I pretty much stopped servicing my own cars twenty years ago.
For the range of smaller Honda threads I have a few taps & dies.
Question (ftp://Question)
Do the rear hub cushion rubbers need to be fitted completely dry ?
I was thinking a light smear of rubber grease might help with fittinng the outer drive part.
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I have fitted the left rear fixed bearing in place together with the short & long spacer & retainer ring nipped up. Spacers all held in place with a piece of slotted plastic overflow pipe to maintain alignment.
My next task is to fit the right rear wheel bearing - my concern is to avoid any chance of thread damage to the bearing retainer threads whilst fitting the other bearing.
I was going to leave the retainer screw off, then fit the bearing but want to avoid any chance of damaging the hub thread as I use a wooden support at the centre with a rubber pad on top.
Would it be okay to fit the retainer ring first and just support that instead?
Is there a best way round to do it?
I plead guilty to over thinking in advance!
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Never had a problem just knocking them in Ted
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Never had a problem just knocking them in Ted
thinking it through Bryan it will make no differance if the sprocket carrier is in place or just the steel retianer ring - same force on the same part when knocking the bearing in - I'll make sure I've warmed the housing up first.
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Nice warm day so decided to finish fitting the rear wheel bearings this afternoom, new bearing had been in the freezer in a zip lock bag for a few days, heated the hub center up with an old hair dryer - they knocked in without difficulty using my drift tool. Center spacer held in position with piece of plasic pipe. so it's all good for when the axle is fitted nicely aligned.
Fitted all new drive cushion rubbers into the slots with a very light coat of red rubber grease, D ring fitted using same grease.
Greased hub center it pushed in by hand but not fully home for the last 2 or 3 mm.
Not sure if it should go flush by hand or if the retainer has to pull it fully home?
I don't want to force it at this stage so have left it for tonight - tea & beer reward.
It might be worth pulling it out to check the D ring is okay - I fitted it as it came I did not turn the D ring inside out.
My rear hub tool for the left hand threaded retainer does not seem to want to fit on the new retainer ring but it fits the old one perfectly wtf is going on here?
It's a DS retainer ring.
Update Fresh day, removed the hub, D ring was undamaged, used some extra grease, it went in easier just needed to tighten the retainer ring to pull it home the last few mm. I used the old retainer as my tool fits this. No big leverage needed on the retainer just screwed in easily.
Just need to decide what to do to about the poor fit of the new retainer in the tool - two pegs line up nicely but the fourth just does not engage by hand - I'm reluctant to hammer the tool to make it fit!
Could it be the DS retainer ring or is it the tool?
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Do you mean this retainer and tool Ted?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240501/3413fae7fe7494f616a62ba22d32b452.jpg)
If so, I recently bought the tool and an aftermarket retainer from a different supplier and the tool didn’t fit correctly, as you can see. When I contacted them, they checked their stock and found the new batch of retainers didn’t fit the tool but the original Honda retainers did. They sent me a genuine Honda one as a replacement which was fine. I wonder if DSS has the same issue?
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I've contacted the tool provider who supply the same tool to DS. It appears that the supplier for the retainers were the issue. I've been offered some turned down pins as an option for my tool. I will contact DS and see if they can supply a better part.
The rear tool is a different design to the front one.
The 500 retainer has a different pitch circle so my 400 tool is too small, on the 500 it also holds the rear drive hub in place.
Update DS have tried their tool in the three retainers they have on the shelf - one does not fit the tool. They will not send me a replacement part until they have recived my part back and tried it in their tool!
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Just a bit of an update and to give credit to Vince Goosey at this firm who I bought my lock ring tool from back in May 2023. www.gbmotorcycleproducts.com
I today received f.o.c. a set of four pins to replace the ones in my tool that fits the poorly made replica part supplied my DS.
That's what I call customer service.
I decided against sending my lock ring back to DS for them to change it as they were not prepared to do so until the faulty part was back with them to compare- clearly they still have the faulty ones left on the shelf. I did not want to take the risk of them sending the same part out again not to mention the time delay.
Clearly DS knew there was an issue with a batch of their lock rings - they could have sent me a replacement that I would have paid for on the basis of a refund on the returned part. This was an opportunity for them to give better customer experience that they missed.
This morning I tightened up the lock ring with the new pins fitted to the tool.
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It's clearly not my day today.
Well, came to fit the oil seal in the retainer and it does not want to fit - it clearly is the right size as it looks as it will fit the old retainer just fine when I tentatively part fitted it!
I dont want to risk damaging the seal trying to make it fit so I am sending the retainer back to DS for replacement.
That's put me back a few days now - I am going to return the DS retainer ring part in the hope that a replacement one is from the new production batch.
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Ted, for the life of me I can't remember an oil seal sitting in the retainer. The only oil seal fits in the sprocket fixing plate which the rear wheel collar comes through.
This is a 550 but should be the same.
https://images.cmsnl.com/img/partslists/honda-cb550f1-super-sport-550-four-1976-england-rear-wheel_big00026127f11_cceb.gif
But I might be wrong!
Phil
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My 500 has eight rubber dampers four are thick on the drive side four are thinner on the overrun.
Looks like the 550 is different.
Definitely another seal on the retainer item 20 in the parts book p/n 90753-283-000 the left side spacer runs inside it plus a large O ring for the sprocket cover I think.
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550 and 500 same shape but later ones had a connector bit, the screwed in retainer does not have a seal, only the big tim pressed plate
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550 and 500 same shape but later ones had a connector bit, the screwed in retainer does not have a seal, only the big tim pressed plate
So the seal fits into the sprocket cover plate Bryan not the retainer ring - that makes sense.
It confirms what seablower said as well.
I should have taken more photos and listned the first time!
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53699893614_8685e8c7e3_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pPgZuJ)PXL_20240505_084731863 (https://flic.kr/p/2pPgZuJ) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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Plan C now used the DS retainer ring having fitted the different pins to my tool - tightened up nice and tight - all looks good
The 500 rear wheel when fully assembled felt so much heavier than the 400.
Seal fitted into the sprocket tin plate after fitting the left side spacer wide end to the bearing. Large O ring fitted to the hub all in place as per the parts exploded diagram. Spocket nuts nipped down with some new locking washers fitted.
I've done the first fit of the wheel - looking good - not torqued up the sprocket nuts yet or bent the locking tabs into place. I'm worn out now for today.
I'll tighten up the rear axle to check the wheel rotates freely before I fit the chain etc.
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Just keeping the project progress up to date - sorted out the wheel binding when I tightened up the axle nut - turned out to be a combination of the right wheel bearing not being knocked in fully home plus some brake shoe binding as per my 500 advice sought post on wheel binding.
Rear wheel now fitted, chain fitted together with rear brake rod / adjuster and hub bar thingy. Now the bike has two wheels fitted I need to remove the center scissor stand and torque up the sump and various other bits like the front wheel clamps.
I have a list of items to check for tightness and add my yellow dots when done. My plan is to start fitting the exhuast system in the next couple of weeks.
Photo of bike to date.
Updated:-
Went fishing yesterday (Weds) for a couple of hours in the early evening.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53709535905_b05b469aca_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pQ8pP8)9th May 2024 (https://flic.kr/p/2pQ8pP8) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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Nice work there Ted! Shapeing up to be a nice bike!
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Looking very good Ted, you've been busy👍
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That’s looking good Ted, shiney shiney
Loving the rims!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Thanks Johnny I'm pleased with the build so far. I just hope the engine starts & runs as my 400 does. It's my forever bike so not worried that it cost around £2k more to rebuild than my 400. I've pretty much bought all my parts to finish the project.
Never say never but this is probably my last project. I'm keeping my first born - my 400, between the two I should always have a runner as long as I'm able to ride a bike.
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Looking good Ted - did you have the rear mudguard rechromed . - ££££££ !
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Looking very good, can’t be too far off. Are the tank and panels finished?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Yes they are already painted in gloss Black in safe storage - done by the bloke in Ilkeston who was recommended to me by a sohc member (Seaman Phil?).
No petrol tap or filler cap fitted as yet - I have a tap kit & new filler cap to fit.
All the big ticket items purchased just some minor oddments for the final fettle.
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I woke up knackered this morning so I've not done any actual work as such on the bike - just bimbling about.
I had a small surge of guilt/energy at tea time so decided the big box from Delkevic needs to be evicted from the rear lounge.
I walked the box by standing it on end out of the lounge through the hall - into the kitchen out though the conservatory fighting two little Chihuahua helpers through the last two door onto the back yard to my waiting sack trolley.
I have unpacked the various packs of fittings, one pair of pipes is in the Polystyrene box on the freezer, one is on the floor next to the bike ramp.
Brackets are labeled L/T, R/T - L/B, R/B
I assume that left top & left bottom silencers other for the right side.
I can't see any markings on the silencers themselves such as 1,2,3 & 4.
I hope the boxed pairs are for each respective side.
Some instructions would have been helpful - that's me done for today.
I now need to look seriously for the first pipe & bracket to fit having referance to the previous posts on this subject.
I've spotted one silencer has a square rubber bit - to cushion the stand methinks - left side lower silencer then.
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So started my first fit for the left side exhaust pipes. I ended up using the old front clamps as the new ones appear to have quite tight holes causing me difficulty on number two front pipe as the studs that were Helicoiled are at a very slighty wrong angle.
Quite happy for now to use the old clamps that I had previously cleaned & painted.
I fitted number two front pipe first as its the lower silencer unit. lt lined up quite nicely but number one upper silencer was not wanting to fit with the rear joint miles out. After several attempts and a tea break I tried a new idea.
I fitted the front pipe end first with the clamp in position but not the two collets. With the mounting bracket removed I fitted the connector pipe in place (not tighted but clamp in place) then slipped in the two collets on number one exhaust and nipped up the two retaing nuts finger tight. I then slipped the mounting bracket in place nipping up the silencer nuts and the top hole bracket just slotted in place. I used an old bungee strap on the end of the silencer to keep the connector in place rather than clamping it up.
Tomorrow i am minded to make some minor adjustment to the slotted holes on both brackets so that the front pipe sits more freely into the cylinder head. With a lot of faffing about it took me almost two hours to fit one side including tea break. So far I've just fitted the left side exhausts - I still need to do a little fettling as I want to make the front pipes fit better into the cylinder head - I might need some wider slots in the top holes of the brackets to allow the silencers to move a mm back. Just to release any unnecessary tension.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53714338045_c88819b2bd_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pQy2jD)side view (https://flic.kr/p/2pQy2jD) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53713910721_da132d3fc9_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pQvQhZ)end view (https://flic.kr/p/2pQvQhZ) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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I agree with your approach using our real advantage as time rich private restorers. So what if takes hours - getting an unstressed connection at the ports that you don’t have to worry about will be worth it. Too much to hope that these aftermarket units would just bolt on but your patience is going to be rewarded.
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That bike sure is looking pretty, I have always liked the looks of those 500 pipes, it sounds like a lot of faffing around to fit them but it will be worth it in the end.
Keep up the good work.
Cheers
Dennis
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Good work Ted, I will be doing the same job soon. I also like the look of those alloy rims as they remi d me of my original 500 in 1975.
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Fashion is a strange thing if can make a none-PC comparison when I was a teenager the Mini Skirt was all the rage - for me it has never gone out of fashion. The Lotus Elan S4 was always attractive - it still is today.
In the early 1970's I thought the four pipe bulbous system on Hondas was dated compared to a decent four into one system.
Now 50 years later I chose the four pipe system not for orginality or as they are cheap - I finally understood that Honda were aiming for a classic style that endures.
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Good work Ted, I will be doing the same job soon. I also like the look of those alloy rims as they remi d me of my original 500 in 1975.
Thanks Mick I was going to go for Gold anodising as on my 400 as it would look good against black panels,
I went for the alloy anodising instead with slightly wider rims as were fitted to the bike by PO.
Pleased to hear a positive comment as I still have hidden regrets about not choosing gold.
One thing for sure I'm pleased the Nut Brown Frame never happened. ;D ;D ;D
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I agree with your approach using our real advantage as time rich private restorers. So what if takes hours - getting an unstressed connection at the ports that you don’t have to worry about will be worth it. Too much to hope that these aftermarket units would just bolt on but your patience is going to be rewarded.
Oh David I like the term time rich I just wish I had the phrase energy rich to match it.
I fitted the side stand in place before fitting the left side system - when using my spring puller I was giving it more grunt that some well known Tennis players.
It was my third full on fully grunted effort that got the piddling looking spring into the slot! :'( :'( :'(
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So this morning before Brunch I fitted the right side system (I still plan to remove the left upper for fettlig) including looking for the parts and the right spanner done in 40 minutes - it went like a dream.
Slight improvement on previous method of fitting the Delkevic system. Firstly I fitted the lower pipe threading on the clamp beforehand. I held the pipe into number three exhaust port whilst holding the silencer end pretty much in line with the inside of the hanging bracket in place - I temporarily used a thinner bolt to pop it through the bracket to hold the silencer roughly in position. I then fitted the collets into position and nipped up the clamp ensuring it felt free, cleared the frame, the engine it looked nice and square into the port. I then removed the temporary bolt fitting one the right size and nipping it up so the bracket was fully against the hanger.
I fitted the joint & clip onto the lower silencer, the top silencer with clamp over the pipe without the rear bracket in place I fitted into the area of number four port so I could slot the top silencer into the joint pipe. Bungee strap wrapped around the end of the silencer to stop the rear joint from poping out of place. Front collets in place then nipped up checking it was clear of the frame and engine. There is plenty of room to then fit the rear silencer bracket in place, tighten the two nuts. Then push back the main bolt to slip on the second bracket.
Lower silencer bracket is on the inside of the hangar, upper silencer is on the outside - nip up exhuast clamps and finally put a nut on the hanger bolt. At the moment I have no rear footrests fitted as I'm not as yet happy with the way they "hang".
Clearly I learnt a lot from doing the left side - I will be removing the left top silencer over the next few days to fettle so it's as good as the right side.
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(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53715364926_4f8882df74_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pQDhzu)right side (https://flic.kr/p/2pQDhzu) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53715795640_1bb49197db_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pQFuBA)rear view (https://flic.kr/p/2pQFuBA) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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Just noticed my Chihuahuas photo bombed my exhaust pic. 😁
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I assume the cushion is for them to sit on whilst observing the fettling?
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Excellent progress Ted. Running by the end of next week?
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Dave I have a small auxiliary petrol tank so if all goes to plan I might go for a first start up next week. Not checked the timing yet but it's a real possibility.👍👍👍
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I removed the left side top silencer, loosened the clamps on number two front pipe to find a nice stress free position. Lightly nipped up the clamp on number two port.
I removed the bracket from the upper silencer then re-fitted it as previously. When re-attaching the bracket I could see that the top slot needed a little opening up at the top of the slot to allow the upper exhaust to drop down a tad. A small amount seems to make a difference at the tail pipe end. It all went together well except when clamping the hanger bracket it wanted to pull out of the balancer joint. The Delkevic top bracket has a half circle reinforcing plate attached to the bracket. If I fully tighten the hangar bolt it starts to tip the rear of the silencer.
I'm chewing over the options - might try and fit a sawn in half washer to keep it all flat at the same angle .
Update Just used a slightly thicker stainless washer that has a slight dished shape, fully tightened the nut on the bracket all stayed in place.
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Ted that all sounds exhausting! (somebody had to do it). Sounds like you’ve done a good job there bike is starting to look like it’s about ready to roll. It’s a shame when parts are made for a specific model that they don’t fit correctly, especially going to the expense and trouble to produce a quality replacement.😡
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That's strange that the fitting was awkward Ted. We fitted a set of the Delkevic 2 weeks ago to a customer's bike and they fell on with no problem at all. The chaps on the USA forum that have bought them also had no issues fitting them. As with all 4 into 4 systems though, even OEM, they never just fall into place without a little bit of a jiggle.
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I have a theory Julie that the issue on the left side upper exhaust might have been related to the rear foot peg bracket end angled section just looking very slightly different on the bolt hole end section from the right side. I suspected wrongly that the right side was slightly mis-shapen due to the previous 4:1 system fitting.
The one on the right side that fitted perfectly had a distinctive angle at the tip, the left side hanger was not a mirror image - it was visually slightly different a smoother curve.
One advantage for me was by fitting the bracket to the upper exhaust in situ with the balancer pipe connected I could see where the bolt need to align with the bracket when I slipped it in place. This meant I only needed to file it once as I could see where the slotted hole needed fettling. I did not need to elongate the angled slot just take a small amount of metal from the middle top of the slot.
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Initially I plan to retain the standard points system then change over to electronic ignition if the bike runs ok again.
It must have taken me an hour of checking the points gap, checking the F mark for the bulb to light up in the hope that my static timing is good enough on 1/4 & 2/3 can't believe how rusty I am at setting points. I will use my strobe when it's running.
It would be great if the two small pegs for opening the points with a screwdriver were even close to the recess on the other side of the contact breaker.
Presumably I could move the backing section to achieve this. I assume some of this is linked to the brand of ponts fitted as well. There is no pitting on the contacts they look very new in terms of use.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53718155557_bbfd188498_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pQTA8P)500 ponts plate (https://flic.kr/p/2pQTA8P) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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Your back plate securing screw is nicely in the middle of its adjustment range👍
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I'm going to dismantle the points plate to clean it up. Ken is sending me some proper screws to replace the Allen Key Headed ones to prevent overtightening.
I agree David the main three back plate screws are pretty central. It the CB ones that are at the extreme end, I will see if there is a make on them when I strip down the plate.
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Yesterday I fitted the correct screws that Ken sent me to the points base plate - I set up the static timing using the bulb method as per the Haynes Manual it took me the best part of an hour to end up with the right points gap range & set the timing something close to where it ought to be. I cranked the engine over before fitting the plugs - oil light went out as it should.
I filled up my temporary petrol tank - first bonus was there was no float flooding when I opened the petrol line tap.
Cleaned & fitted the PO's NGK D7EA plugs.
I made sure I had the correct HT leads after my 400 fiasco.
tbh it took a bit of cranking before she first fired up then all was good - no nasty noises - she sounds so different to my 400.
Next job is the dynamic timing, check the camshafts for oil splash then tweak the carbs if needed as so far only done a bench sych.
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Yay, well done Ted, cracking news
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Glad to hear shes back running Ted
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Well done Ted :). Crack open the bubbly whilst you trawl Ebay for that CB750 Project you've always promised yourself (or a Maico ;))
Happiness is turning on the fuel and the carbs don't flood :).
Post some photos of the complete bike wearing it's newly painted suit 8)
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Good news, you must be itching to road test it.
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Such a deeply satifying moment when it comes back to life, now get it on the road.
Cheers
Dennis
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Well done Ted. Nearly there now. 8)
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Not sure about elsewhere in the UK, here in Derby it's still pretty cold for a long period of bike work.
It was only 58 deg F in there today - well below my comfort zone tbh.
I've decided to set the carbs up using a Morgan Carbtune Pro 4 that I ordered today so the tank will not be fitted until it's running with balanced carbs. It's been a relief to have it running as many here can empathise after a full strip down.
To spur me on I would like a couple of weeks of warm sunny weather.
I've have quite a lot of backlogs to clear in the house & garden before I take the 500 out for a run I will post some pics when the tank & side panels are in place.
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Well done Ted. Great to hear your news after such a well documented build we have all followed. Expect to see you with the knee down when we get a warm Derbyshire!
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Well done Ted :). Crack open the bubbly whilst you trawl Ebay for that CB750 Project you've always promised yourself (or a Maico ;))
Happiness is turning on the fuel and the carbs don't flood :).
Post some photos of the complete bike wearing it's newly painted suit 8)
Sadly the 750 is far too heavy for me - I've pretty much decided the Maicoletta idea will be too much pain due to the lack of parts.
I'll never say never but - this 500 might be my last build - if I am tempted it will be something smaller or even another 400 at a push. Space issues would mean my existing 400 would have to go. Not sure I could handle the separation it would be like getting a divorce.
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well done Ted, a great feeling when they burst into life.
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Great news Ted, I'm not far off getting mine on the road now, just some small tweaks and cosmetics.
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Great news Ted. When you’re knee deep refitting the kickstart mechanism and primary shaft this moment seems an age away. Well done and let the tweaking begin 👍
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Well done Ted. It's been some journey post 800 on page 54. Just look and admire your work but I'm sure the ride will be equally rewarding.
The 750 always was too heavy for me. Even the 500 is a lump to heave onto the main stand for me now. (the foot lever is not well angled as it has to avoid the pipes.)
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I have tried to put some detail into what I have done on this project Phil in the hope of sharing my journey including any setbacks to help others who want to have a go at a 500 so it soon turns into 54 pages (to date).
That's not counting the raft of individual questions I posted on the CB500/550 section to help with the build when I was unsure what went where etc. It still surprises me that I have forgotten some of what I learnt on the 400 build.
The build so far covers some 18 months with obvious static periods due to the winters. I am delighted that I have had the engine running - if this build is like my 400 one I will slow down as it nears completion as I do not want it to end.
I have a check list on my detailed spreadsheet for items that need to be torqued up, checked etc. It is by no stretch of the imagination all original nor concourse or "finish perfect" like the one Ive seen on the USA site.
It's a keeper for me to enjoy whilst I still have the health to ride a motorcycle - I will probably never sell it. Purists will not like my LED front & rear lights or my lack of the original fork ears & gaiters to mention just a few items.
I really do appreciate all the advice, pointers, tips plus some free spare parts given to me by generous members here. When I fit the tank & panels I will upload some more photos. Lastly my thanks to the suspended member Oddjob/Ken who continues to help me outside of the forum.
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Well done Ted, always big relief to hear it running as it should. Looking forward to some pics, and it’s a bit refreshing to see an alternative interpretation as to what your bike should look like. I have never done a build other than what the book and manuals say it should look like. But I will be attempting my first one in the near future so looking forward to it. Will start gathering bits and pieces soon. Good luck with the finishing touches.