Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => SOHC Singles & Twins => Topic started by: AndyD on June 19, 2020, 06:17:24 PM
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Hi,
Started stripping the CJ to assess condition and plan restoration of the handsome beast.
I just wondered if anyone had any experience of these bikes in terms of known issues, weaknesses or areas to check on the engine so I can make sure to go through these as I progress.
Cheers,
Andy
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Centrifugal oil filter on end of crank inside clutch cover needs cleaning and rarely gets done, cam chain tensioner system same as 400 four, lots of oil changes and insulating tape inside points cover to stop them shorting intermittently.
Dont thrash it from cold it will shatter rings and carb diaphragms, along with standard caliper/master crud problems
Anything else?
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Cam notorious for seizing in the head and trashing itself, the rockers, head and cover..... the cam bearings are just a machined into the alloy head and cam covers ... oil starvation is usually down to P.O. not changing the oil regularly and, as Bryan says, there is no easy access to the centrifugal oil filter on that model.... it requires removing the clutch cover. My first course action would be to take off the cylinder head cover and look for signs of oil starvation and take it from there. Bottom ends are usually fine and the 5-speed gearbox is said to be an improvement on the 6-speed G5.
Forks and swinging arm are longer than the 400/4 and G5 which I think was done to improve the handling.
Original 2into1 exhaust systems are rocking horse poo and hence very expensive (often worth as much as a complete running bike). Wheels and disc brake are common to the 400/4 and G5 models. Rectifier terminals corrode and drop off.
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Thanks guys,
Engine fully stripped this morning - had to wait for a castle nut tool to remove the centrifugal oil filter thingy.
So far looks promising but have now given everything an initial degrease / clean so I can have a close look at all the bits tomorrow.
You're both right about the oil filter - the centrifugal bit was pretty well solid gunk and the oil filter pretty messy, however there didn't seem to be any major damage evident from initial look (although may be different once I have a closer look at cleaned bits).
I've got two pretty well complete 250's, a spare 250 engine and a complete 360 so hoping to have enough good bits to get two full bikes up and running.
The 360 has a really good condition exhaust on it although the silencer is for the 250 - I'll probably use that on the 250 as a full restoration and the 360 as a decent runner with some universal silencer or other.
From the stripdown it seems the cam chain tensioner is different to the 400 with a simpler horseshoe mechanism - again all seemed in decent condition so far.
Cheers,
Andy
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After all the flurry of triumph and success of the multi pot bikes Honda along with several other major Japanese bike manufacturers seemed to suffer from a collapse of imagination. From what I remember this bike appeared to be a genuine Honda stop gap "parts bin", very cheap, special with no great expectations of it having long and heathy service life. I personally know of 2 identical very low mileage machines expiring with major valve problems. At about the same time folks discovered that some of the new? CB500T had valve stems that would bend under the pressure of a hard stare. Honda had got a bit lost at that time but unlike the British bike industry recognised this and managed to find a way back.
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PDI and sold a lot of the G5 and CJ bikes, the only time they suffered engine problems was if thrashed from cold by the owner, 175's were the same, OR oil change and centrifugal filter neglected, owners would specify NOT to clean the filter due to time cost and gasket, in which case they were told to get it done elsewhere. There were also the Numpties who removed the cam cover to try and force more cam chain tension.
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Not to disagree but these bikes were the Japanese the equivalent of what used to be called "grey porridge" when applied to small capacity British bikes. Still high on the success of the late 60's, early 70's, all four Japanese makers were treading water in the knowledge they had no real competition in the small to medium market. Mid 70's and being kind, you could call some of their offerings novel, eg.the CX500 and the unwelcome return of the oil leak; but their main focus was on the sales of larger capacity and more lucrative machines with everything else taking a back seat.
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Best of luck with your resto Andy but if I was looking to do up another SOHC Honda it wouldn't be a CJ, they weren't really that desirable when they were new. But then again mebbe thats the appeal, I'm guessing but I assume they are quite rare now? I've certainly never seen one since the early 80's
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Horses for courses ....I say if you like the bike go for it.. it wasn't as pretty as the G5 but handling and gearbox much better.. .. I think they are becoming more collectable particularly for cafe racers.
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They were the last Honda 250 "learner" bike as i remember before the 125 restriction came in, could be wrong there the memory is getting old
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They were the last Honda 250 "learner" bike as i remember before the 125 restriction came in, could be wrong there the memory is getting old
No, the last ones were the Superdream 250's Bryan, as when the law changed they became worthless, as no one wanted one after passing the test, they were only a couple of mph faster than the last unrestricted CB125 twins, and the unrestricted 125's started climbing in price, a bit like unrestricted mopeds Fizzy's and AP50's and SS50's did.
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They were the last Honda 250 "learner" bike as i remember before the 125 restriction came in, could be wrong there the memory is getting old
No, the last ones were the Superdream 250's Bryan, as when the law changed they became worthless, as no one wanted one after passing the test, they were only a couple of mph faster than the last unrestricted CB125 twins, and the unrestricted 125's started climbing in price, a bit like unrestricted mopeds Fizzy's and AP50's and SS50's did.
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Ditto CB250RS single
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Cheers all,
Agree they're not the least bit desirable but maybe that's a bit of the charm!
Only really got them as the 250's were just too cheap to ignore some years ago and the 360 came with the 400/4 which is still sitting on the naughty step while the ongoing carb flooding issue has seen us fall out badly.
I think they were just a misjudged design choice at the time and hard to imagine anyone at Honda bragging about being involved in bringing the CJ into the world.
My real love is the big 4 cylinder 4 strokes but I must say it is quite nice working on something smaller, simpler (and lighter) for a change.
Cheers,
Andy
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Knew my brain was addled with guiness!! Forgot totally about the wet dreams
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Obviously I'm a bit odd, but I have always had a soft spot for the CJ250/360. The plain yellow tank and black side panel have an appeal.
Good luck with the restoration, I will look forward to any updates
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I bought my CJ250 for £75 back in 1983 i think?, then me and a mate who was a bike mechanic and very good at welding made the sidecar box
to go on the side of it , i passed my test on that bike and had a lot of fun on it to ;)
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Maybe the beginning of a fan club for the CJ after all.
I guess they aren't and haven't ever been fashionable or desirable but I kind of like the look of them and have some fond memories of a borrowed one saving a bike trip to Devon back in the eighties when a friend broke his brand new Superdream the day before we left.
Cheers,
Andy
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That you like them is all that matters mate.
The very early road going 600cc MV Agusta four cylinder (Black Pigs) weren't nicknamed that for nothing, but they are worth a small fortune these days.
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I also had another red/orange one later on ;)
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Maybe we should start a UBB .. ugly bike board/unloved bike board ;D
This doesn't look too bad for the price.
https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/honda-cj-250-cb-250-auspuffanlage/1401861068-306-1198
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Well, from ugly duckling to .... highly polished ugly duckling!
The CJ250T has finally rolled off the operating table and I'm just waiting for a dry day soon so I can get her outside and see if she runs.
[attach=1]
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It's been great fun restoring the old twin - after doing a few big 4-cylinder lumps everything is so much more manageable!
Spent far more time and money than anyone sane would advise on one of the most undesirable bikes of the time but there's no accounting for taste and for some reason I quite like them.
Last few jobs to do with decals etc. but waiting to get her running before a final tidy up.
Cheers,
Andy
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Well done Andy,
nice to see an 'underdog' type machine restored.
I've ridden those bikes at the dealer I worked for when they first came out, I always though that they went better than the CB250G5 model, but that's maybe because they were much lighter?
Anyway have fun.
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What a great job you've made of that, looks great.
Cheers
Dennis
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Looks extremely good. I think everyone on this forum will understand and appreciate the amount of work (and cash!) that's gone into that restoration.
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Thats a great restore. They may be unfashionable bikes from the past but its good to see a CJ back on the road and looking good.
Nairb
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That looks stunning Andy and very standard, which is a rare sight indeed.
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Looks luverly 😊😊😊
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Wow someone has been very busy during lockdown!
Excellent piece of restoration work, well done.
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Thanks all,
It's been fun.
I was resigned to making do with 'treasonable' exhaust bits but then had a real stroke of luck over Christmas when a full NOS exhaust system turned up at a great price to really finish it off.
Spent a fair bit on paint, seat and chrome etc. but the overall cost wasn't bad as I got the bike and lots of NOS bits really cheap over the years before everything vaguely old got crazily over-priced.
Just got to get her outside and running and no doubt there'll be a few hiccups before she's really finished.
Cheers,
Andy
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Oops - nothing treasonable about the exhaust - meant reasonable!
Cheers,
Andy
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Points used to have a habit of shorting on thè ally points cover but insulating tap cures it
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I recently ‘found’ an old Honda Catalogue in my secret stash - simply holding it and seeing the presentation style whisks me back in time. Happy days eh?
Requests? ... from the PA50VL thru GL1000 plus clothing & accessories. (Guessing 1975 publication.)
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...forgive me Andy... here’s the 250.
Simon
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Nice one Andy, another top restoration. May not be everyone's ideal bike but the workmanship is first class. Hope it runs as good as it looks.
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Thanks for the tip Bryan - I've put some tape inside the cover just in case.
Lobo - love the brochures, great to see the old stuff we used to eagerly look at.
Roy -hoping to get a chance to fire her up tomorrow if it stays dry and I can get work out of the way early enough. No doubt there will be a few challenges but fingers crossed.
Cheers,
Andy
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I was talking to my mate Graham who had a CJ250 from new, as I distinctly remember Honda selling after-sale accessory pinstripe stickers for the tank and he confirmed my thoughts and says he remembers them and they were genuine Honda parts. It p*ssed me off at the time as Honda did not sell a pinstripe decal for the 400F2, so I had to mask and spray my own on.
I can't remember what they looked like but I suspect they were like this CJ360 which DK recently listed.
[attachimg=1]
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Since when did a CJ250/360 have a drum front brake. Mine had a disk and I don't think the CJ was ever updated during it's short life. Must be an Americanism I guess.
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Since when did a CJ250/360 have a drum front brake. Mine had a disk and I don't think the CJ was ever updated during it's short life. Must be an Americanism I guess.
That's because Americans don't use front brakes Roy, well at least in the movies, as all the baddies crash their bikes with the back brake locked and sliding down into oblivion. ;D
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American Early CJ/CB250/360G's did have drums ... useful for restorers of the previous K models, like me, since the drum fits that model fine and the brake-plate only differs in that it has a little arrow mark cast into it for the brake wear indicator fitted to the 'G' models.
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Excellent work Andy. I had one of these back in the day as I needed something reliable to get me to work and it did a lot of miles, including some long trips like Guildford to Newcastle, without missing a beat. I can't say I really loved the bike, but it did exactly what I needed it to do. Traded it in for a 400/4 :)
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Thanks Arfa,
Really like them in yellow - might well change the colour from orange on the 360 I will eventually get around to restoring. Mind you I don't plan anything like such an extensive restoration on that one.
Luckily I got the CJ's really cheap some years ago before eBay inflated the cost of everything and I'd also collected quite a lot of NOS stuff cheap as well.
It was great fun doing the bike - simple mechanics, only 2 cylinders etc. and still quite a lot of parts available at reasonable prices even on eBay. Benefit of working on an unpopular bike I guess.
I never had one in the past but a friend borrowed one when he stripped the sump plug on his brand new Superdream the day before a bunch of us set off for a trip to Devon. The poorly maintained borrowed CJ valiantly struggled up and down the country and never gave up so I've got a bit of a soft spot for them.
Now just trying to refocus on getting the 400/4 finished before I get sidetracked yet again!
Cheers,
Andy