Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB350/400 => Topic started by: ComfySofa on December 23, 2023, 06:48:34 PM
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As above. mines not been used since nipping over to Roo's house for help/schooling. I was in the garage earlier cleaning the z (every other week through the winter to keep it up to scratch) as i use it every day for work. Finished cleaning and thought "hmm...may as well kick the 400 over as its not been started for a while....famous last words.....i did get it started but only just after about 15 mins or so of firing the starter/choke on and off and then once i got it started coaxing it into life...once running if i snapped the throttle open it would die instantly but not all the time....question is, am i right in thinking im gonna need to nip round the block on this once a month just to keep stuff turned over? Both my Hyper and moreso the RSV4 start on the button after being left for 6 months....so guessing with the 400 it is what it is...and old carbed bike or does it need further tuning?
Any guidance/advice is greatly accepted! - oh - yes it does stay on an optimate as well.
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Do you run the fuel out on the 400 before leaving it for a month or more - as draining it is a bit of a faff I just run it with the tap off until it will no longer run. Always starts again when I open the tap let the carbs fill up - second kick and it goes quicker if I use the starter button.
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If you start it and don't drive it to get it up to its correct operating temperature, what happens to all the moisture that's produced. I've managed to keep my OE exhaust system intact for nearly 15 years now. I do not start it unless I'm taking it our for a run. Anyway, enough of that, I wish you all a very pleasant and peaceful Christmas, and good riding in the New Year, Mike.
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Cheers lads....yes - last time i used it i swtiched the fuel off....maybe i should have ran it til the fuel drained from the carbs? i did nip out in the garage just now and it pretty well started on the button (didnt go out on it) as it was wet outside....i think its gonna be dry tomorrow so ill take it round the block. I think ill probably take it out for a quick spin. Guessing ill do this once a month....?
Anyway happy xmas all....thanks for all the help ive had this year.
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It's a grind but to be sure you really need to drain the float bowls if you intend the bike to sit for any length of time, just running it till the engine stops still leaves fuel in the bowls, as soon as the fuel gets to the level of the jets it will stop, that can leave enough in the bowls to tar up like they do.
Believe it or not but there is a special bowl designed for draining the bowls, you can see it on Mike Nixons video if you're interested. Personally I've never seen one before but it does look handy to have. It's 54 seconds into this video, anyone know where to source one please post a link. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5E0NASixo4
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Not cheap Ken.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Moroso-65805-Carburetor-Drain-Cup/dp/B000CONZNI
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Not cheep Ken.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Moroso-65805-Carburetor-Drain-Cup/dp/B000CONZNI
For a man if a certain age as well?😱
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I'm sure you could knock summat up using pvc pipe and solvent weld glue but the idea is good.
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Shallow takeaway container works for no cost.
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FWIW, I store 5 motorcycles (2 with carbs) and 3 cars (1 with carbs) for up to 7 months. They sit in garages (in different locations) with the batteries disconnected (no trickle chargers). Before storage I put StaBil in each fuel tank per the StaBil directions and then run them for 10 miles or thereabouts. After the storage period I connect the battery and hit the starter (use choke as normal for carbed engines). They all start as if they had been running yesterday. I've been doing that for nearly 15 years now. I'm sure other brand fuel stabilizers work but StaBil is the only brand I have ever used.
Re my not using trickle/smart battery chargers: the vehicles are unattended during storage with no one living on the premises. Years ago I had a battery explode due to a charger malfunctioning so I don't trust chargers that are unmonitored for months. I've never had an instance of a disconnected/reconnected battery failing to spin the starter normally after the storage period.
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Stabil.... Never heard of that's stuff before... I'll order some...cheers.
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Sounds like it might be easier just to give it a quick run every now and again... Must confess I'm not sure....
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FWIW, I store 5 motorcycles (2 with carbs) and 3 cars (1 with carbs) for up to 7 months. They sit in garages (in different locations) with the batteries disconnected (no trickle chargers). Before storage I put StaBil in each fuel tank per the StaBil directions and then run them for 10 miles or thereabouts. After the storage period I connect the battery and hit the starter (use choke as normal for carbed engines). They all start as if they had been running yesterday. I've been doing that for nearly 15 years now. I'm sure other brand fuel stabilizers work but StaBil is the only brand I have ever used.
Re my not using trickle/smart battery chargers: the vehicles are unattended during storage with no one living on the premises. Years ago I had a battery explode due to a charger malfunctioning so I don't trust chargers that are unmonitored for months. I've never had an instance of a disconnected/reconnected battery failing to spin the starter normally after the storage period.
Went looking for interesting views on this product...found https://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/general-q/143437-stabil-whats-really.html with reasonable in depth discussion at the thread ending.
I've not used it, but does appear to get positive appreciation when people dose and evaluate.
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You could try this stuff from Briggs and Stratton.
https://www.briggsandstratton.com/eu/en_gb/products/care-products/fuel-fit.html (https://www.briggsandstratton.com/eu/en_gb/products/care-products/fuel-fit.html)
Pick it up at your local garden machinery shop and save online postage charges.
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Thanks! So, just been out on it....up to the local bypass....open it up a bit....clear it out, as it were...
Its a good few months since ive been out on it and then, it had just been rebuilt so i only had a dozen go`s on it as it was freshly rebuilt (each time i opened it up a little more ) so im not really sure what to expect from it...
Back to today....nothing wrong as such but a few questions....
First and foremost the tickover is now on about 2k....so that needs adjusting....and that question....is that where its been left to stand or, just general adjustment (does it need that now and again)- or it is where everything is settling down..?
Next, power: i just took it up the local bypass...last time i was on it i was dipping into the 7 -8k rev range...today i took it a little higher...going up the bypass (literally a slight uphill slope - the A4174 if anyone is closeby) in top gear it wouldnt go past 7k - now i dont know why that is? is that where the motor hasnt been stretched (to use the best phrase i can) or is that a limitation of the engine/bike, im fully aware its not state of the art racer and that doesnt bother me in the slightest as its not for that, but want to be sure that theres not some other reason its down on power....but it might not be...that being said on the return downhil it was accelerating fine (dipped into 9k very quickly) - i must confess its quite unnverving taking an old engine that high but Bryan did say some time ago that its more than happy up there....
Far left hand bank is a bit ticky but ive got my adjustment tool now so thats the next on the cards. Ill be changing the oil soon as this is its first lot in there since the build.
As i say just general questions from someone who hasnt owned a carbed bike for well over 30 years and owning stuff at the other end of the spectrum (1100 Ducati twin) amongst other bikes ive got which is a lazy big potted motor that does all its work around 2 - 7k!!
Thanks all for the replies...
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I'm certainly no expert or authority so take my observations as anecdotal at best
Carb synch if everything else is correct i.e. timing, mixture, carbs free of any issues, no intake air leaks, no throttle return bindings.
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Going up hill in top gear may offer the most challenging task to the toque available on these.
They just don't make much of of it and sixth is effectively "overdrive" and may not be possible. You have to ring it out in fith to play it properly, dont hold back on this as it can be far more compromised trying to run lower rpm.
Essentially, if it can't pull sixth to let it gain rpm, then you get the carb slides wide open at too low an rpm, then the carb venturi vacuum is below expected and results in weak mixture. Detonation in this circumstance is a very real possibility and will,cause damage to combustion chamber.
Bryan is absolutely right, revs just don't hurt them, they are fine to spin and really need it.
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Righty...so sounds normal...although im 1 down 4 up....i will say that when i dipped into the 9k area it did seem more eager...just feels....tight, but then its just been rebuilt...as for the carbs they have been balanced but i will check for airleaks and what not....roo did ssay to me that the tappets being out can also affect power (and i know one side it still tappy, as it were).
Thanks for all the replies...always a learning process but just want to be sure (however it runs) is the way it should..!
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How many miles have you done since the rebuild? The engine might need running in, it will certainly loosen up a bit in the first 250-500 miles if you have new bearings, pistons, etc.
The high idle speed probably just needs adjusting down with the large idle control screw. It will only need adjusting a couple of times as the engine loosens up, should be stable after that if everything else is kept in spec.
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Hi there...probably a couple of hundred now...totall forgot about the idle screw (probably could have done that while i was out)
Bryan did say about 500 for the oil change...
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Good shout about the main idle screw - I wrongly assumed that was your first port of call.
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Nope - that'll be me being an idiot!
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If were honest most of us have sometimes missed the obvious - not everyone has the courage to own up to a senior moment.
Just hope it does the trick.
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FWIW, I store 5 motorcycles (2 with carbs) and 3 cars (1 with carbs) for up to 7 months. They sit in garages (in different locations) with the batteries disconnected (no trickle chargers). Before storage I put StaBil in each fuel tank per the StaBil directions and then run them for 10 miles or thereabouts. After the storage period I connect the battery and hit the starter (use choke as normal for carbed engines). They all start as if they had been running yesterday. I've been doing that for nearly 15 years now. I'm sure other brand fuel stabilizers work but StaBil is the only brand I have ever used.
Re my not using trickle/smart battery chargers: the vehicles are unattended during storage with no one living on the premises. Years ago I had a battery explode due to a charger malfunctioning so I don't trust chargers that are unmonitored for months. I've never had an instance of a disconnected/reconnected battery failing to spin the starter normally after the storage period.
Went looking for interesting views on this product...found https://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/general-q/143437-stabil-whats-really.html with reasonable in depth discussion at the thread ending.
I've not used it, but does appear to get positive appreciation when people dose and evaluate.
Further consideration of this product. They specifically don't list in primary ingredients the "active" component, ordinarily saying trade confidential or similar.
General reading shows that it uses naphtha as solvent carrier, with approximately 5% special component. Reading into the precautions for medical response on msds data shows Ethylene Glycol Monobutyl Ether as that specialist ingredient.
Not suggesting to manufacture your own, unless you want to ;D, but to pass the initial test of absolute bullocks into realistic feasible explanation of how its claimed to work.
Useful description here of that component https://www.atamanchemicals.com/ethylene-glycol-monobutyl-ether_u26765/ which looks very plausible as opposed to pure snake oil status.
It's attributes, along with the logical description some of the more informed contributors place do appear to support a valid product that will likely stand empirical scrutiny.
Anyone else thinking to try it in cleaning gummed carburettor components? In raw form it may be worth giving something like jets a soak to gauge effectiveness.
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FWIW, I store 5 motorcycles (2 with carbs) and 3 cars (1 with carbs) for up to 7 months. They sit in garages (in different locations) with the batteries disconnected (no trickle chargers). Before storage I put StaBil in each fuel tank per the StaBil directions and then run them for 10 miles or thereabouts. After the storage period I connect the battery and hit the starter (use choke as normal for carbed engines). They all start as if they had been running yesterday. I've been doing that for nearly 15 years now. I'm sure other brand fuel stabilizers work but StaBil is the only brand I have ever used.
A topic debated religiously and ad nauseam in pretty much every ICE related forums... ;)
Some entertaining test:
https://youtu.be/chsGBhB5g7o?si=tdx4goLdhElDzQte
I'm more on the premium (hence low ethanol) fuel group, car and motorcycle...
Re my not using trickle/smart battery chargers: the vehicles are unattended during storage with no one living on the premises. Years ago I had a battery explode due to a charger malfunctioning so I don't trust chargers that are unmonitored for months. I've never had an instance of a disconnected/reconnected battery failing to spin the starter normally after the storage period.
Which is why I turned away from conventional starter batteries (besides that their quality decreased massively in the past few years...)
LiPoFE4 won't suffer permanent chemical death when discharged, attach a designated lithium-charger and they're fully revived in like 45 minutes...
(plus they're offering a lot more punch, hence cleaner spark...)
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If were honest most of us have sometimes missed the obvious - not everyone has the courage to own up to a senior moment.
Just hope it does the trick.
Ive got no problem with that...! my head is pre-programmed for throttle body setup....ie you cant adjust anything unless its plugged into an ODB connection with a laptop on the end...so no, didnt even think about it...more than happy to admit im in the wrong....always learning stuff everyday....been in IT for 25 years and i still get schooled by guys 20 years younger than me and more...even my own kids..!
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....been in IT for 25 years and i still get schooled by guys 20 years younger than me and more...even my own kids..!
Me too.
They may be able to sort out why my iPhone doesn’t ring when somebody calls me via WhatsApp (my daughter sorted that out), but could they write an SQL Query?
She would say “ we don’t have to as there are IT nerds who do that stuff. “
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Whilst I fully appreciate all the 'plus' points of modern electrickery, I find that it has led to a situation whereby no encouragement is made to younger people to stimulate their brains, just accepting that whatever the machine/computer/diagnostic system displays. About 3 years ago, a friend nearby took his diesel transit to the main dealer as it was running like a stuffed pig. The technician duly plugged in the necessary equipment, and even though the van was shaking like a jelly when idling, the verdict was "No Fault Found", and they were ready to send him on his way. Cannot remember what the problem was, but it was rectified by one of the more senior members of the engineering staff.
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FWIW re stabilizer...my understanding is that it is primarily a light oil and its purpose is NOT to mix with the fuel as an additive, per se, but to essentially float to the top of the fuel in the tank, carb float bowls, etc and "insulate it" from the air. With no contact with air, the fuel will essentially remain "as new," at least for quite a long time. Not being a chemist, I certainly can't verify the accuracy of that functional description but I do have a Norton Commando that sat untouched for nearly two years with E10 fuel/stabilizer in the (fiberglass!) tank and the bike started with no trouble. I do know of a guy that claims he uses home heating oil as "stabilizer" and says it works fine. Certainly cheaper... ;)
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I don't buy the floats on top theory - I think like 2T oil it forms a eutectic mixture of some sort then chemically resists the degradation using Snake Oil chemistry.
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Right, I insist that all my fuel stabilizers be eutectic! ;)
Actually, I have no idea what that means! ::)
But it sounds like a good thing. :o
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A eutectic system is a homogeneous, solid mixture of two or more types of atoms or chemicals that form a super-lattice.