Post by: Laverda Dave on July 15, 2023, 04:03:21 PM
May I introduce you all to Project CB400/4! Yes, another one ::). As you can see from the photos it’s in a bit of a sorry state, some would say ‘cosmetically challenged’ and I would 100% agree, it looks terrible with all that black paint, ape hangers, chrome shopping rack on the front mudguard, the peaked front spot lights, the tombstone rear light and the seat. The seat, it’s terrible, what was I thinking of when I made the seat 43 years ago, yes that’s my handiwork from my days as a coach trimmer!
Why I have I chosen this particular project? The story goes back 44 years and my Brother was going out with a girl and she had a really cool brother called Hank. He had a yellow CB400/4 that was immaculate and had a Marshall end pipe that sounded great. I loved that bike; he called it the flying banana. I had a CB200 but eventually bought a red 400/4 from Speedway Motorcycles in Acton, West London, now sadly gone. Hank and I would hang out on our bikes with another couple of guys on CB400/4’s. Hank decided to customise his 400/4 by painting the engine black (and eventually the lovely yellow tank) and fitting the high bars. He asked me to make a stepped seat for it so his girlfriend perched on the back could see where she was going. I added foam to the original seat foam to give him what he wanted.
To cut a long story short my brother split up with Hank's sister after about 5 years and I got married, moved away and lost touch with Hank until a few months ago when I gave him a call after about 20 years :o. We met up for a beer and talked about the old times. I asked him if he still had the 400/4, he did but it hadn’t been used for 22 years and was sitting in the garden shed. He asked me to go and have a look at it. When I got there it took 45 minutes to get the bike out of the shed and it stank! There were rats in the shed and the bike is covered in rats crap and urine. Hank has no interest in the bike and asked me if I wanted to buy it, we agreed a price of £500, how could I refuse to buy the actual bike that inspired me to build my own CB400/4 Flying Banana in 1990 as a homage to Hank's original :). I brought it home a couple of days ago in a van.
First job is to fumigate it, the smell of the rats is unbelievable! Does anyone have any ideas how to get rid of the smell? From the photos you can see it is missing a few bits, I have the tank but the speedo and rev counter have gone AWOL along with the ignition/seat lock key (and I can’t lift the seat up as its locked down) and the V5, the air filter plenum chamber is also missing. It does have a Cibie headlight though, a real bonus ;D
I’ll add to this post as the project moves forward but this bike is not going to be touched until I have the Triton running properly and it is off the bike lift.
Post by: Matt_Harrington on July 15, 2023, 04:10:22 PM
Post by: K2-K6 on July 15, 2023, 04:22:48 PM
Post by: Deano400 on July 15, 2023, 04:32:41 PM
Post by: Laverda Dave on July 15, 2023, 04:39:08 PM
I was at the Kempton Park Autojumble today buying NGK plugs and carb jets for the Triton when I came across a guy selling some 400/4 bits. I bought a set of genuine handlebars for £5 although they need a re-chrome. I went back 30 minutes later to buy the complete front mudguard for £20 but it had sold, you snooze, you loose :(
Post by: Deano400 on July 15, 2023, 04:42:35 PM
SS - 073 COMPLETE AIRBOX SYSTEM - ALL GOOD USEABLE PARTS.
Has clocks as well but might be worth talking to Kent400.
Post by: Laverda Dave on July 15, 2023, 04:49:47 PM
Steve @ 400fourbits has an air manifold.
SS - 073 COMPLETE AIRBOX SYSTEM - ALL GOOD USEABLE PARTS.
Has clocks as well but might be worth talking to Kent400.
Thanks for the tip-off Deano. My mate Hank reckons he kept all the parts he removed and put them somewhere 'safe'. He's going to have a look over the next few days to see if he can find them. I really hope he finds the V5 and key for starters :)
Post by: Rozabikes Tim on July 15, 2023, 04:50:23 PM
With your back catalogue on these babies you'll do this with your eyes closed.
Post by: Matt_Harrington on July 15, 2023, 05:02:53 PM
Post by: Laverda Dave on July 15, 2023, 05:10:47 PM
Dave, I was at Kempton as well - strange weather! There wasn't that much Honda stuff there....
Did you buy the 400/4 front mudguard Matt :'(!
No, not much there, a lot of stallholders appear to have read the forecast and stayed away. As Henry Cole would say 'a lot of detritus and trinketry'. £2 for a tea bag thrown into a paper cup as well! I did get a set of new TEC rear shocks for the 400 though :). The guy who sells the TEC shocks only has two pairs left, after they sell, that's it.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on July 15, 2023, 05:22:17 PM
Post by: Rozabikes Tim on July 15, 2023, 05:23:04 PM
Dave, I was at Kempton as well - strange weather! There wasn't that much Honda stuff there....
I did get a set of new TEC rear shocks for the 400 though :). The guy who sells the TEC shocks only has two pairs left, after they sell, that's it.
Got his details Dave?
Post by: Trigger on July 15, 2023, 06:03:14 PM
Post by: Sesman on July 15, 2023, 06:07:36 PM
Post by: Johnny4428 on July 15, 2023, 06:16:06 PM
Post by: Nurse Julie on July 15, 2023, 06:16:48 PM
Post by: Matt_Harrington on July 15, 2023, 06:39:38 PM
Dave, I was at Kempton as well - strange weather! There wasn't that much Honda stuff there....
Did you buy the 400/4 front mudguard Matt :'(!
No, not much there, a lot of stallholders appear to have read the forecast and stayed away. As Henry Cole would say 'a lot of detritus and trinketry'. £2 for a tea bag thrown into a paper cup as well! I did get a set of new TEC rear shocks for the 400 though :). The guy who sells the TEC shocks only has two pairs left, after they sell, that's it.
No, I didn't see it, so must have gone before I got there. I can assure you that the coffee is a little better by the coffee wagon by the ramp. (only just!)
Post by: Athame57 on July 15, 2023, 06:58:11 PM
Post by: Laverda Dave on July 15, 2023, 07:43:44 PM
“We’re all doomed…”
And it's going to be another yellow one :o
Post by: AshimotoK0 on July 15, 2023, 10:05:15 PM
You need to speak with Oddjob (Ken) about the rat pi$$. I would pressure wash it and then chuck some neat Zoflora over it. I sprayed some of it in my shed over a year ago and you can still smell it. Thankfully, is didn't have rats in it..just a bit pongy after the roof leaked.
Post by: Laverda Dave on July 15, 2023, 10:36:48 PM
Dave, I was at Kempton as well - strange weather! There wasn't that much Honda stuff there....
I did get a set of new TEC rear shocks for the 400 though :). The guy who sells the TEC shocks only has two pairs left, after they sell, that's it.
Got his details Dave?
Tim
The guy selling the TEC shocks is:
BHP Performance
His name is David Hunt
Tel: 01932786030
Call evenings and weekends or leave a message. He is TEC's South of England agent.
He has two pairs of the fully exposed spring type (the correct look) and two pairs of the shrouded type left in stock. They cost £60/pair and are/were made in Australia by IKON so decent quality.
They are 315mm centre to centre and not the 310mm of the genuine Honda items but you really won't notice.
Good luck getting a pair as TEC have no idea when they will be making anymore.
Post by: Laverda Dave on July 15, 2023, 10:44:55 PM
Nice project and price Dave. not a CB160 though.
You need to speak with Oddjob (Ken) about the rat pi$$. I would pressure wash it and then chuck some neat Zoflora over it. I sprayed some of it in my shed over a year ago and you can still smell it. Thankfully, is didn't have rats in it..just a bit pongy after the roof leaked.
I've bought some Jeyes fluid Ash on the recommendation of Nigel. I'm going to spray it on and leave it for a bit to work before using a pressure washer to clean it off. Before I clean it though I need to get the seat off which is going to be difficult with no key :(.
Yep, it's not the CB160 or CB175 I was actually after but this bike has some history to me and I would like to restore it to the day I first saw it (and heard it with the Marshall pipe that eventually fell off in the Hanger Lane gyratory underpass!).
Post by: MCTID on July 16, 2023, 12:16:22 AM
Happy daze.
Good luck with the latest money pit....no doubt it will get there in the end and be something to be proud of once again.
Post by: Oddjob on July 16, 2023, 01:40:05 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on July 16, 2023, 09:34:26 AM
Stuff like getting the seat off without a key for instance will be of interest to others.
Post by: K2-K6 on July 16, 2023, 06:18:12 PM
You probably know this, when using jet wash to clean it post disinfection, make sure nose, eyes and mouth are covered to avoid airborne spray emissions from reaching your body soft membranes and further into lungs.
Alan, did you also have to do things like periodically venting "deadleg" emergency shower provision to control risk of leogenaire potential? Oh the delights of all the nasty stuff out to get us :(
Post by: Laverda Dave on July 16, 2023, 08:14:57 PM
LU staff would do a weekly vent of showers in changing areas to prevent legionaries disease. There was a case of it at the Neasden sports club a good few years ago although legionnaires would be the last thing on my mind when using those changing rooms, they were pretty rank and the type of place you would wear flip flops even in the shower!
Post by: Oddjob on July 16, 2023, 08:35:34 PM
Post by: MCTID on July 17, 2023, 12:39:50 PM
I'd like to think that the LU Safety Induction Course - where you MUST receive the 'basic training' before being allowed access to work on LU Premises was responsible for the low infection rates, and the many other 'mandatory' Training Courses also reinforced the knowledge and understanding of our Staff and Contractors, so the message was constantly repeated as people had to regularly take Refresher Courses in order to do their job.
The most difficult aspect was getting across to the 'Invincibles' (and those whose first language wasn't English) that if they didn't apply basic good Hygiene principles and take some simple precautions, then IF they did contract the disease they'd possibly pop their clogs rather quickly !
I reinforced the message about them passing the disease to their Wife and Kids and painted the picture of how would their loved ones manage without their Dad (the Breadwinner) if they passed away....quite a sobering thought to a bloke in his 20's or 30's with young Kids.....and during my Safety Inspections on LU Premises I often witnessed Supervisors (who had attended my Safety Inductions years before) passing on the same message to their Staff so the seeds I planted had grown.
No K2, I didn't get involved in managing 'Deadleg' water systems etc - I'm pleased to say ! Regarding Ken's comments about Rats only carrying the Infections being the dangerous ones....I never managed to run fast enough to catch one to test it for Weills Disease ! LOL. Our biggest concern though was Vermin peeing in the stagnant water pools under the Platform Inverts and then Workers walking, wading or crawling through those pools....hence the importance of thorough washing ASAP, especially before touching their face or eating and drinking.
My apologies for the lengthy comments, but they are still relevant for those who might work in 'dodgy' premises....personally I had to spend a couple of days cleaning out my Garage a few years back as some furry critters found a long forgotten stash of bird seed ! Not nice I can tell you !
Post by: Toko_Jo on July 17, 2023, 12:49:50 PM
Heard stories of the floors of control rooms having tiny globules of mercury sloshing about.
Post by: Nurse Julie on July 17, 2023, 01:25:39 PM
Did you instruct on the hazards of mercury when the mercury arc rectifiers got broken or scrapped?I spent most of my junior nursing career scrabbling around on the floor attempting to pick up mercury from broken thermometers by slipping a piece of paper under the globules. Once achieved, the mercury globules were thrown in the bin. In latter years, we were issued with Mercury spill kits which stopped all the fun.
Heard stories of the floors of control rooms having tiny globules of mercury sloshing about.
Post by: Oddjob on July 17, 2023, 01:51:11 PM
I'm not trying to downplay the risk, maybe LU had training like that to minimise legal claims or to lessen their exposure to potential compensation. Wouldn't be the first time a company has overinflated the risk factor in order to get the message home.
HSE says this about it.
The Weil's disease form of leptospirosis is contracted from the urine of infected rats. The bacteria get into your body through cuts and scratches or through the lining of the mouth, throat and eyes after contact with infected urine or contaminated water. It is a rare condition in the UK. The disease starts with flu-like symptoms such as a headache or muscle pains. More severe cases can lead to meningitis, kidney failure and other serious conditions. In rare cases the disease can be fatal.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on July 17, 2023, 01:52:55 PM
We swept the bulk of Mercury spills using a brush & pan resorting to Cardice to freeze the small globules long enough to pick them or brush it up before it turned from a solid back into a liquid again. All done whilst wearing a Respirator due to a Hall full of Chlorine Gas as we rushed to re-fill the water Manometers on each Bed.
We had regular blood test to detect any build up of Mercury in the body - early symptoms were bad nightmares! Happy carefree days though. ;D ;D ;D
Post by: Sesman on July 17, 2023, 02:11:26 PM
Post by: Oddjob on July 17, 2023, 02:20:55 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on July 17, 2023, 02:55:03 PM
Post by: Johnny4428 on July 17, 2023, 04:21:59 PM
It is reckoned his creels that were ashore for whatever reason were urinated on and entered his bloodstream via a small cut on his finger. Certainly ruined his life. (Frightening)😰😰
Post by: Oddjob on July 17, 2023, 06:55:55 PM
Post by: Johnny4428 on July 17, 2023, 06:59:24 PM
Post by: taysidedragon on July 18, 2023, 12:40:15 AM
Not sure Ken, probably going back to sometime in the 80’s, definately long time ago.
That makes me feel old. The 80s, a long time ago! 🤔
Post by: TrickyMicky on July 18, 2023, 08:55:13 AM
Not sure Ken, probably going back to sometime in the 80’s, definately long time ago."LONG TIME AGO!!!!" One of my Hondas is a 1987 model, it's the newest one I've ever owned, it's got all this modern electronic ignition gubbins. You've just made a happy man feel very old.
Post by: Johnny4428 on July 18, 2023, 11:30:11 AM
Post by: Matt_Harrington on July 21, 2023, 11:11:51 AM
Did you instruct on the hazards of mercury when the mercury arc rectifiers got broken or scrapped?I spent most of my junior nursing career scrabbling around on the floor attempting to pick up mercury from broken thermometers by slipping a piece of paper under the globules. Once achieved, the mercury globules were thrown in the bin. In latter years, we were issued with Mercury spill kits which stopped all the fun.
Heard stories of the floors of control rooms having tiny globules of mercury sloshing about.
Oooh, the fun we had at school playing with mercury when young! :o
Post by: SteveD CB500K0 on July 21, 2023, 12:01:10 PM
Doubt if it would be allowed now.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Laverdaroo on July 22, 2023, 12:01:44 PM
Lets infect Roo, from all accounts he needs to shed a load of excess weight :D :D :D :D
folk in glass houses etc! ;D
Post by: Laverda Dave on September 29, 2023, 11:32:36 PM
So far it’s been a tale of woe and it’s not looking good. The PO had been riding the bike until it was pushed into the shed 20 years ago. I don’t know how he rode it, it was a death trap! Four engine mounting bolts were missing (front upper and front lower, both sides). The rear engine mounting bolt is a piece of studding! The ape hanger bars move backwards and forwards with just a slight push. When I drained the oil it was like thick black treacle with thick sludge in the bottom of the sump pan (that also has a stripped oil drain bolt thread with an oversized bolt fitted).
Stripping the engine has been a challenge; I thought I was going to break the fins trying to separate the head from the cylinder block as the black paint was so thick! I managed to split the cases today to check the crank and shells as this will determine if the rebuild is going to be worthwhile. The cam chain tensioner horseshoe spring and plunger was still in its fully compressed position, the horseshoe being completely seized due to the cam chain wearing a grove into it. Strangely the PO told me the engine has never been taken apart although the blue hylomer everywhere would suggest otherwise!
When I checked the crank journals four of them looked to be in good condition but when I inspected the centre journal I noticed a score mark deep enough to feel with a finger nail. The score mark does not go all the way around the journal and is about 4mm long at its deepest point. The corresponding shell bearing is equally scored in the same place indicating the bearing has picked up some grit and possibly sand from the sand blasting years ago. I’ve yet to measure the remaining journals with green plastigauge but I would value some expert opinion on the condition of the centre main journal before I start wasting my time (see photos).
I also noticed what appear to be several cracks on the lower main oil gallery with evidence of an overlong lower engine mounting bolt being fitted (and obviously removed as these were not fitted to the engine when I bought the bike). I only noticed the potential cracks when I scrapped the thick black paint from the area (see photo). When I say ‘cracks’ could these be casing marks as they appear to be proud of the surrounding metal. If they are cracks they will no doubt open up when the engine gets warm and leak oil. Has anybody had any experience of repairing these cracks if that is what they are?
In view of the above I could be looking at a scrap crankshaft and potentially scrap cases as well! If this is the case I will probably break the bike for spares otherwise it will become a money pit. Any thoughts welcome please!
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 30, 2023, 12:02:25 AM
Post by: Trigger on September 30, 2023, 05:25:01 AM
Looks like something has got into that centre crank pin to make that deep score ;)
Post by: Bryanj on September 30, 2023, 09:14:55 AM
Cases need good cleaning to asses and that has def been apart before.
There will be parts out there to rebuild it but as you say cost may make it unviable
Post by: AndyD on September 30, 2023, 10:56:23 AM
I feel your pain - guess it's the 'fun' of taking on a new project, hoping all will be well when you start looking closely while always knowing it's unlikely!
Deciding what is worthwhile is something I wouldn't dream of commenting on as my track record is awful - the 400/4 you kindly had a look at with the sidestand issue a while ago is the perfect example. A basket case with evident bodgery in all areas even before digging deep, but still thought I'd give her a go and have sunk far too much money and time into a bike I'm not even sure I really like!
Still haven't gone back to sorting what to do with it so just sits in the garage staring back at me!
I've got quite a lot of spare bits and bobs for the 400 including engine parts and lots of tools (and now time as well) so happy to help if I can if you decide to go ahead and try to save the bike.
Cheers,
Andy
Post by: smoothoperator on September 30, 2023, 04:17:49 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 30, 2023, 04:57:10 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on September 30, 2023, 05:27:07 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Laverda Dave on October 01, 2023, 11:00:29 AM
I'm going out into the garage today to give everything it's first clean just to get the treacle like oil off the casings and shafts etc along with the smell of the rats pee!
I think I will have to fit another crank as I don't like the thought of spending a shed load of cash on parts knowing one journal on the crank is marked. I would like to keep the cases as this was original engine of the bike (or I hope it is, I'm still waiting for the V5 from the P/I). I'll take some more horrific photos of the carnage as I go along, parental advisory may be required to view them😳.
It is a shame the bike hasn't been looked after during the past 44 years from when I first saw it but hopefully I can restore it back to it's former glory👍
Post by: Johnny4428 on October 01, 2023, 11:06:25 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 01, 2023, 11:11:13 AM
Post by: Laverda Dave on October 01, 2023, 12:00:38 PM
Hopefully your engine cases do not have too many C codes - a nice combination of A's & B's is easier to find mains for.
That could be my first bit of luck Ted, they are marked AABBB :)
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 01, 2023, 12:52:28 PM
Hopefully your engine cases do not have too many C codes - a nice combination of A's & B's is easier to find mains for.
That could be my first bit of luck Ted, they are marked AABBB :)
They will be easy enough to find shells for I think DS stocks pretty much all aside from black mains & there are other suppliers iirc in the Far East.
Post by: Laverda Dave on October 18, 2023, 09:57:11 AM
So, the engine is now fully apart and everything has had its first clean to remove the treacle that was once oil. I'll give everything a second clean before I begin the close examination and measuring up. Some things have become obvious though as the parts have been removed. From the state of everything and the presence of various colours of instant gasket including red, orange, blue and clear the engine has been apart before. The cam chain was not tensioned following the initial rebuild as the spring is still full compressed on the push rod resulting in the pivot pin of the horseshoe being eaten into by the flailing chain and seizing solid. On removing the valves I found one thrust washer (if that is what it is called) missing between the inner valve spring and the head on No.4 inlet (another addition to the much needed parts list!).
The oil pump has also been apart before as the two dots on the rotors are not on the same side and facing up as they should be. Strangely enough there is not a single scuff or any other mark on the rotor tip or scoring in the body, I suspect a new oil pump was fitted at some stage; probably it picked up sand from the previous ham fisted blast treatment the engine was subjected to?
I found the bike has been fitted with Pirana Ignition, that's a blast from the past for sure although I'm not sure if it works, I will have to test it.
The real downer proved to be the front and rear mudguards. Both these items are genuine Honda and the chrome is in really good condition on both, I thought I had a result here but alas, NO:-[. When I removed the tombstone rear light fitted by the PO it revealed two badly drilled big mounting holes drilled into the mudguard. A similar story occurred on the front mudguard, when I removed the 'shopping trolley' Harley type front fender guard it revealed four 8mm holes drilled into the mudguard mounting/brace piece, sod it :'(. The easy way out would be to fit blind grommets in the holes but that would look really tacky and is a bodge too far for me. I am going to investigate having a very small plate welded at the back of the holes and maybe filing the holes with brass or copper and smoothing it off level with the surrounding profile. Hopefully any welding will not distort the surrounding metalwork and a re-chrome will take. Any thoughts, has anyone tried this method before and does it work?
Back to the shed now, more news as it happens ::)
Post by: Mikep328 on October 18, 2023, 10:35:32 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 18, 2023, 10:47:17 AM
Post by: Johnny4428 on October 18, 2023, 01:31:36 PM
Post by: Oddjob on October 18, 2023, 02:25:15 PM
Post by: Laverda Dave on October 19, 2023, 02:41:13 PM
Post by: AndyD on October 20, 2023, 05:40:20 PM
Sounds like a nice simple polish and ride project!
If you still need the washer under the valve spring I may well have these.
I've got an old 'spares' engine in the shed so should still have those in the head if needed.
Lot of other bits and pieces lying around as well in hugely varying condition so can check if anything is of use to you.
Cheers,
Andy
Post by: Laverda Dave on November 04, 2023, 11:37:47 AM
When I arrived home the plater called to say he had finished all the plating I had dropped off a couple of weeks earlier. He’s done his usual fantastic work, the yellow zinc on the carb parts has come out really well. He’s also stripped the mudguards of their chrome to enable me to get the holes made by the PO welded to enable a rechrome. He’s also stripped the chrome from the centre and side stand and their springs, engine plates, rear sprocket and rear torque arm ready for paint. Being the pro that he is he bagged everything up properly and as I sent it to him, must be over 400 items in total. £160 all in, I’m very happy with that. As he can no longer do chrome plating he has recommended a company called Nottingham Plating Limited, has anyone here used them?
I’ll be starting on inspecting all the engine parts next week and cleaning the frame ready for an alignment check at Victory motorcycles in Sarrat before sending it off for powder coating in Windsor. I took the carbs apart, what a mess, these are going to take some serious cleaning in the ultrasonic bath!
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 04, 2023, 12:02:57 PM
http://derbyplating.co.uk/
Post by: Oddjob on November 04, 2023, 02:10:39 PM
Post by: Laverda Dave on November 04, 2023, 03:05:51 PM
I'll see how much I get quoted at Nottingham platers Ted, I wish I knew about the Derby platers when I worked up that way. I tried a plater in Hinkley a few years ago when Gary was overloaded with work, great quality of work but very expensive.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 04, 2023, 03:25:30 PM
I used them to re-chrome a bathroom basket type fitting - it had rusted after a couple of years. I could not find a new replacement that would fit or cover the bolt holes so they re-chromed it - that was over ten years ago and it has not gone rusty again.
Post by: Oddjob on November 04, 2023, 06:29:18 PM
Post by: Laverda Dave on November 05, 2023, 03:06:30 PM
Send me a PM of what you need doing and I'll ask him but it's going to be a while before he's back working. He doesn't do post though, it's all personal drop off and collection.
Post by: Oddjob on November 05, 2023, 04:23:09 PM
Post by: AshimotoK0 on November 11, 2023, 09:48:09 AM
A few Freebies to re-instate your airbox as promised. I have a NOS rubber cable clip thingy for you as well but it's not here.
I will re-plate the clip and oval tube in BZP before I send.
[attachimg=1]
Post by: Laverda Dave on November 11, 2023, 11:12:19 AM
Dave I can't post pics in a PM so put on here. (see PM)
A few Freebies to re-instate your airbox as promised. I have a NOS rubber cable clip thingy for you as well but it's not here.
I will re-plate the clip and oval tube in BZP before I send.
(Attachment Link)
Marvelous, thank you Ash. These are all the parts I am missing. You even have the white plastic drain piece as well. Roo offered me one of these but I haven't taken him up on his kind offer as I was scouting eBay for all the other parts first to see what exactly is missing but from what I can see you have everything I need to refit a proper air filter system and get rid of the nasty pods🙂.
Please let me know the post etc for these👍.
Roo, thank you for your generous offer of the drain piece, apologies for not taking you up on the offer, hopefully someone else in my position can use the part as these seem really difficult to get hold off.
What great forum full of great people 🙂👍
Post by: Laverdaroo on November 11, 2023, 01:47:37 PM
Good on you Ash, that’s a proper stash, you’ll have made Dave’s day
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Laverda Dave on November 26, 2023, 09:23:18 PM
I attempted to strip the forks by holding them in the lower yoke and held this in a vice. Unfortunately the cap head bolts in the fork bottom just turns without undoing from the damper. I have tried to compress the legs hoping the spring pressure would stop the damper turning but no luck. I then resorted to the torque gun hoping to shock the bolt but nothing doing there either. I was going to do the unthinkable and resort to drilling the head of the bolt off but that won't work either as the bolt head is in a recess preventing me holding it and the drill just spins the bolt! This is the first time I've had this problem with fork legs, they normally put up a bit of a fight but usually a bit of a compress of the leg does the trick. Does anyone have any ideas how to separate the damper from the leg?
Post by: AshimotoK0 on November 26, 2023, 09:42:03 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 26, 2023, 09:49:04 PM
https://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,26667.msg246225.html#msg246225
Post by: Laverda Dave on November 26, 2023, 09:56:36 PM
popped up before -
https://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,26667.msg246225.html#msg246225
Thanks guys. I've just read the link and there appears to be salvation in a broom handle🙂
Post by: Nurse Julie on November 26, 2023, 10:03:58 PM
[attachimg=1]
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 27, 2023, 09:36:11 AM
Post by: Laverda Dave on November 27, 2023, 04:45:09 PM
Thanks for the tips, I was genuinely stuck with what to do next.
Post by: Laverda Dave on December 01, 2023, 10:41:05 PM
I dropped the sump off at SRS in Sutton yesterday to have a 12mm timesert fitted into the stripped oil drain plug. The cost of £25 to fit is a lot cheaper than buying a timesert kit at £90! After Sutton it was off to Banstead (on the bus and train!) to SWS to collect the lower crankcase following the welding up of the crack close to the main oil gallery and oil filter. The welder has done a good job although I will dress the weld to blend it in to the surrounding alloy prior to vapour blasting and painting.
Today I assembled the crank into the crankcases with some green plastigauge to measure the shell clearances. This wasn’t good news! I already knew No.3 main bearing shells were scuffed due to a piece of grit finding its way in there and I polished the journal using 3000 and 5000 grit paper on Bryan’s advice. Whilst the other bearing shells don’t have scuffs they appear to be pretty worn, I attach a couple of photos of the plastigauge reading on No.5 journal and No.3 journal (the scuffed one). The readings on all the journals were above the maximum plastigauge indicator of 0.175 so they will all be replaced. And if I’m replacing the main bearings the con rod bearings also appear to be equally worn and will also be replaced.
In terms of the bearings I need the crank codes (working from No.1 to 5) are: 1A, 1A, 2A, 2A, 2. The case code is AABBB. So, having looked at the bearing table I think I need the following bearing colours: YELLOW, YELLOW, BROWN, BROWN, BROWN?
Connecting rod big ends are coded C2, C3, C2, C3. Having checked the bearing table I think I need the following bearing colours: BROWN, BLACK, BROWN, BLACK?
Can anyone confirm my thinking is correct before I spend some more family inheritance on very small but obviously very precious metal bearings?
Tomorrow I’m off to the Kempton Park Auto jumble and Classic Bike show where I hope to find a tacho and the small but rare as hen’s teeth wire metal clip that holds the cables to the frame behind the headstock and fixes to the horn mounting.
Post by: MCTID on December 01, 2023, 10:57:06 PM
The following year it was failed for the headlamp aim.....even though I said if any minor adjustments were needed, just to do them and i'd happily pay. Getting the bike home again and back to Alf's in Worthing was a right ferking PITA !
I never went back to either Dealer again.
Post by: AshimotoK0 on December 01, 2023, 11:24:52 PM
Looking at Yamiyas site I wont be able to get you any yellow mains shells but DS has some. Unless anyone on here has any to sell you?
Not sure but I think the tacho mechanism is the same as the CB250G5 but has idiot lights fitted... so you could fit a new face to one and blank off the warning lights at the bottom. I will check to see if I have one. I assume you have the S/S 'dish' for it .. deffo have one if you don't.
BTW there was a discussion yesterday on the CB250RS FB group as someone spotted your old bike at Frank's ...Motorcycles Unlimited. :)
Post by: Laverda Dave on December 02, 2023, 12:00:34 AM
Always love reading your resto posts Dave.
Looking at Yamiyas site I wont be able to get you any yellow mains shells but DS has some. Unless anyone on here has any to sell you?
Not sure but I think the tacho mechanism is the same as the CB250G5 but has idiot lights fitted... so you could fit a new face to one and blank off the warning lights at the bottom. I will check to see if I have one. I assume you have the S/S 'dish' for it .. deffo have one if you don't.
BTW there was a discussion yesterday on the CB250RS FB group as someone spotted your old bike at Frank's ...Motorcycles Unlimited. :)
Thanks Ash, I always like to throw in a bit of detail ;D. The tacho that came with the bike is I'm sure a G5. I have already spoken with Peter and he has advised he may have the parts to convert the G5 to a 400 but Kempton is always worth a look anyway as a couple of the traders have crates of old speedo's etc. I do have the dish although haven't inspected it yet, its in the bottom of the box the PO gave me and awaiting it's turn in the fumigation plant ::)
You can tell it was late when I typed the main bearing codes, I read them back to front (from the ignition timing end and not from No.1, alternator end!) :o. So, the correct sequence should be: 2, 2A, 2A, 1A, 1A. Case code remains as AABBB . The bearing colour codes should (I think) therefore be: GREEN, GREEN, BROWN, GREEN, GREEN. Lucky I still had the photo of the crank open as I went to switch off the laptop and noticed my schoolboy error otherwise I would have ordered the wrong ones and I'd have to break the news to the O/H she won't be getting a christmas present this year :'(. Of course this assumes I have read the crank webs correctly and cross referenced them to the chart as I should have done ;).
I check Frank's site now and then to see if the RS has sold and I noticed it's still there, the price imo is just too high but he must know it will eventually sell I guess as he's been selling bikes long enough but at the end of the day a bike is worth what somebody will pay for it.
Post by: Laverda Dave on December 15, 2023, 09:06:18 PM
Firstly a big thank you goes to Ash for not only coming up with some elusive parts in exchange for a CB250RSA swap shop but who also has a contact in Japan who has managed to source some all important crankshaft journal and big end shells. Thanks also to Bryan for his knowledge and help with how I could clean up and properly measure the crankshaft.
I got the lower crankcase back last week from the welder who managed to weld up the potential crack, it certainly looks like a crack in the photo. This was caused as a result of the PO using a longer front lower engine mounting bolt than he should have done after removing the crash bars. I cleaned the weld up once I got the crankcase home and had to ease the thread of the oil galley drain plug as I think the heat of the welding may have slightly distorted it but it’s all fine now (or should I say ‘It fits just perfect’ ;)'.
I have decided to use an old sump pan I had with a damaged sump thread rather than use the original sump that had been badly helicoiled to the extent there wasn’t much metal left to put a timesert in. I instead had a timesert fitted for £25 at SRS in Sutton into the spare sump pan, a bargain really considering the kit is over £100 if I wanted to buy one. The timesert fitted is about 12mm in length and has been sealed with loctite to prevent oil weeping down the thread . This shorter length will allow the oil to drain out fully during an oil change; the original helicoil was 50mm long so the oil would have had a difficult job to fully drain!
I collected the frame on Tuesday after having its alignment checked, all was good there, and it was spot on which he was surprised about as even new frames are always at least .5 deg out. The PO had a previous ‘off’ back in the day and I think the frame was checked then and maybe ‘tweaked’ as the bike not only had a new mudguard but I think it also had new forks. When I checked the headlight and indicator mounting frame though I found it was as bent as a banana and it took a lot of heat to get it straightened out. Whilst I was collecting the frame and removing the dummy crankcase and rear wheel, a bolt of lightning came through the workshop (it is at the edge of an open field) and struck the tools on the bench 6ft away from me with an almighty bang! As a result of my potential outer body experiance I have bought a lottery ticket for tomorrow night’s draw ;D.
The plan with the wheels was to re-use the old ones but... the PO has fitted a much wider rim to the rear wheel to allow the fitment of a bigger, as in fatter rear tire to go with the cruiser look he was aiming for. The tire only just clears the swingarm so that’s going now as well! I had to cut the spokes as after removing the tire I found CWS who built the wheels used a grinder to grind the heads off the spokes in the rim making it impossible to turn the spoke in the nipple. At least it gave me a chance to inspect the wheel bearings that were like all the other main journal and big end bearings in the engine, worn out ???.
Today I took the engine castings, hubs and carb mounting rail to R D Cox and Son in Reading for vapour blasting (the same company as used by a certain Mr A Millyard so they know what they doing when it comes to blasting motorcycle engines). Doug also paints the cases as well with two pack and the results really are good. I am having all the cases, covers and bare hubs painted but not the barrels, head, sump and oil filter housing, these will be left as vapour blasted and similar to how Honda left them originally (I know they were not vapour blasted originally but vapour blasting leaves a finish resistant to corrosion and I also know Honda did not paint the lower crankcase half either but I consider that as penny pinching). I know I could have painted them myself at home but in my view it is not worth the hassle especially considering the weather is too cold to paint, I don’t have an oven in the garage and to buy one s/h will cost at least £50 and have no room for it and I’ll probably only use it only once anyway and then I’m stuck with it. If I use the oven indoors it will stink the house out (and probably those either side of ours as well) and it will take days to cure everything. The O/H is also semi-retired so opportunities for me to do some ‘home baking’ and become Star Baker with my Showstopper that looks remarkably like an over baked motorcycle crankcase will be limited and at the end of the day it will also be inedible :P. All in all I went for the easier life option knowing the 2 pack paint will last as will my marriage :).
I had to repair the carb mounting rail after discovering a big hole where the locating dowel to hold the spindle should be. I drilled and tapped for a 4mm grub screw and locknut after having the hole welded up for a fiver (and I don’t have a welder!).
The pitted fork sanctions I took to Phillpotts in Luton. Gez, is it expensive now to get them hard chrome plated :o. They are going to do the fork top nuts as well. I asked them if they could do the carb spindle as well, they can.......£130!, thanks but I’ll leave that piece, it’s not that bad!
I’m just finishing off stripping the frame and painted parts before taking all these to microblast in Windsor next week for plastic coating. I’m having trouble getting the fibre bushes out the swing arm; they are just breaking up into tiny pieces. Next up will be finishing off the repair to the front and rear mudguards ready for chrome plating. The blacksmith did a remarkable job of filling the holes with braze.
Onwards and upwards. More news as it comes in.
Post by: Johnny4428 on December 16, 2023, 09:40:25 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on December 16, 2023, 10:55:04 AM
Very unlucky if its a crack from an overlong engine mounting bolt.
Post by: Bryanj on December 16, 2023, 11:01:49 AM
Post by: Laverda Dave on December 16, 2023, 12:36:52 PM
Used to be very common Ted as when people fitted the small crankcase crashbars they came with a longer bolt to accomodate the steel bracket, then later on a "new" owner would remove the damaged and bent crashbars and just screw the long bolt back in cracking the crankcase, cant remember how many i had to repair
Guilty as charged Bryan :o. I did the same thing with my first 400/4 in 1981. When I bought the bike it had crashbars fitted that were rusty so I took them off and put the bolts back in. I went out for a ride and when I came back to the bike the tell-tale oil mark was bellow the r/h side of the engine, I'd cracked the casing :(. I bought a s/h engine for £50.
When I was checking the inside of the lower crankcase after the outside weld repair I noticed what I thought was another crack in the oil gallery. I used a bit of fine grade wet & dry and rubbed at the 'crack' hoping the damage on the outside hadn't come right through, luckily the 'crack' rubbed out and it was just a casting mark. Once you start looking though the cases are full of these marks especially inside.
Post by: andy120t on December 16, 2023, 07:44:15 PM
On my first 500/4 (which was a bit of a mongrel with a non-standard/Comstar front end), I had long disc bolts and put them in the wrong way round so they fouled and cracked the speedo drive.
Being young, silly, unaware...etc..I didn't think why it was cracked, just replaced it and soon found it cracked again. I think in the end I replaced ithe drive four times before I worked out why!
Post by: AshimotoK0 on December 17, 2023, 12:14:57 PM
The fork bottom has an inner tube welded inside and no way to get at the distortion to try to fix it. That is after you have got the forks apart, which is very difficult and also trashes the bush as the damaged fork lower gouges a deep groove into the bronze bush. Graham told me he was going to devise some sort of special reaming tool to fix the damaged ones he encounters but not sure how far he got with it.
Post by: Laverda Dave on December 17, 2023, 02:34:08 PM
Post by: Laverda Dave on December 20, 2023, 10:08:37 AM
It is surprising how many parts there are that need powder coating, you tend to think of a frame, swing arm and a couple of stands but my blasting list added up to 34 parts!
I have used Microblast for the previous 20 years, always great quality work, never any runs, they protect the threads (although I normally do this before I take the parts in using old bolts etc) and they only blast the parts on the day they are going to powder coat and bake them to prevent any potential corrosion. They operate a 4 week turnaround. I found out on Monday they now also offer Cerakote so I’ll be taking the exhaust collars in for coating in a silver/chrome finish.
Whilst all the parts are away I’m getting on with other jobs, the forks are stripped and I began cleaning up the parts to inspect. One bit of confusion is the fork springs. According to Mr Haynes the close coiled springs sit at the top, well mine don’t have any close coiled springs so maybe they have been replaced with aftermarket items as some point?
Next up will be cleaning up and prepping the chrome parts and trying to find a decent chrome plating company within a 50 mile radius!
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on December 20, 2023, 10:47:59 AM
Post by: Johnny4428 on December 20, 2023, 11:32:49 AM
Post by: Oddjob on December 20, 2023, 03:12:46 PM
Post by: Rozabikes Tim on December 20, 2023, 06:01:03 PM
Post by: Oddjob on December 20, 2023, 09:27:30 PM
Post by: Laverda Dave on December 20, 2023, 10:34:58 PM
Not sure if the 400 is different from the 500/550 but a part I can't see listed is the bracket that the speedo/tacho mount to which then fits onto the top yoke. Plus ignition switch bracket, does it have the switch below the tank like the 500? Edit: no it doesn't, it's on the top yoke.
Arggghh! That is something else missing Ken, the bracket between the Speedo and rev counter! When I got this bike these items were not fitted. I'll have to see if the bracket is hiding in one of the cardboard boxes I got with the bike as I definitely need it! I'm going to Microblast tomorrow to drop the exhaust rings in for Cerakote on my way to Sonning (a birthday treat from my O/H to celebrate my birthday 🎊). I'll have a rummage in the boxes in the morning before my birthday breakfast of kippers on toast😋.
Well spotted Ken👍
Post by: Oddjob on December 20, 2023, 11:21:42 PM
Post by: AshimotoK0 on December 21, 2023, 12:20:29 AM
Not sure if the 400 is different from the 500/550 but a part I can't see listed is the bracket that the speedo/tacho mount to which then fits onto the top yoke. Plus ignition switch bracket, does it have the switch below the tank like the 500? Edit: no it doesn't, it's on the top yoke.
Arggghh! That is something else missing Ken, the bracket between the Speedo and rev counter! When I got this bike these items were not fitted. I'll have to see if the bracket is hiding in one of the cardboard boxes I got with the bike as I definitely need it! I'm going to Microblast tomorrow to drop the exhaust rings in for Cerakote on my way to Sonning (a birthday treat from my O/H to celebrate my birthday 🎊). I'll have a rummage in the boxes in the morning before my birthday breakfast of kippers on toast😋.
Well spotted Ken👍
I may have one .. also if you can't get the sprocket ring olive drab passivated I may be able to do the one I am trading with you for the 250RS one.
Post by: Laverda Dave on December 21, 2023, 12:10:21 PM
Going through the box I have found two idiot light pods so that was a result. I also found what appear to be two NOS rear indicator stalks in sealed Honda bags. They are not 400/4 stalks and have part number 33607-377-670 are they for the 500/550?
Thanks for your offer Ash, the powder coater has matched the colour quite well so I’ll go for a powder coat finish and see how it looks on the guard I have given him.
I attach some photos of the frame when it was on the alignment jig. You can see the frame is 100% spot on, strange as it is the first frame I have ever had checked that isn’t at least .5 deg out (even the featherbed frame I had checked was out but that was over 60 years old at the time so had a right to be a bit bent up I guess!).
Post by: Johnny4428 on December 21, 2023, 12:39:30 PM
Post by: Oddjob on December 21, 2023, 02:32:50 PM
If the arms were the same length I'd say they would be an improvement on the 750/500 brackets due to the earth wire fitting, tidier.
The brackets BTW are listed on the 400F.
Post by: Laverda Dave on January 04, 2024, 09:08:25 PM
I should be collecting the frame next week from Microblast, it was actually ready on the 23rd December, only three days after I dropped it off but then I dropped off the exhaust flanges for a silver creokote finish so will collect everything next week. That's one item completed and the first bit of visable progress.
Today I checked over the gears for chipping etc, all looked good until I found really bad wear on the low gear of the countershaft, it actually wobbles! Is this normal? I noticed the gear has an internal bush and this is not available as a separate part, as is the gear itself! I attach a photo but obviously you cannot see the wear.
Following that discovery I inspected the main shaft, the gears are fine but the needle roller bearing housing has been cracked, I can only assume the PO did not align the crankcase dowel with the bearing housing and used a hammer instead to mate the cases, how else could that damage have been caused, i have never seen damage like that before unless an engine has siezed or blown up! The end of the main shaft also looks very dubious, it appears the case hardening has worn from the shaft (assuming Honda case harden the gear shafts?) although the damage does not go all the way round the end of the shaft just a third of the way round it which is strange. I don’t know if this is a result of the shaft running off square due to the bearing housing damage although all the neede rollers in the bearing cage itself are fine and turn freely with no binding?
So, what to do now, do I get a new s/h main shaft or is this wear considered normal, the photo makes it look worse than it is although I can feel a very slight lip with my finger nail on the end of the shaft were the damage is. The same applies to the 'wobbly' gear on the countershaft. I know Steve at 400Bits has some gearbox parts but I will wait until the experts on here can offer some advice first.
The bike didn't look to bad when I first got it but the more I delve into it the worse it gets especially in the engine department, I'm glad I only paid £500 for it :(.
Post by: Laverdaroo on January 04, 2024, 09:15:47 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Nurse Julie on January 04, 2024, 09:20:27 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on January 04, 2024, 09:25:15 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Bryanj on January 04, 2024, 09:32:38 PM
You will probably find it easier to get a complete box or bottom end unless Julie has parts in her inventory.
Looks like insufficient oil changes and missalignment, you should build these motors in the top half to get the pegs and half clips aligned properly
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on January 04, 2024, 09:46:49 PM
If it's a 400 I have a full set of gears & shafts out of a spare crankcase - they are not expensive if you need them. PM me for details if they are of interest to you. Ted
PS I also have the crankcase & crankshaft. I bought the part engine/box during lock down from a member. It was iirc stripped for the primary drive shaft & associated bits.
Post by: Laverda Dave on January 27, 2024, 05:35:29 PM
The carbs have now finally come up clean after four trips each into the ultrasonic cleaner at 30 minutes a time. I was able to scrape the varnish residue off after the third attempt with a final clean to follow. I have used a full bottle of Allendale carb cleaner in the process.
The float hinges were so corroded into the retaining posts despite following three cleans and the application of careful heating to avoid melting the plastic floats I had no choice but to drive them out with a very small drift and pliars. I bought some 2mm brass rod to make four new hinge pins and used the lathe to rub it down to the correct disameter. I placed all the brassware into clock cleaning fluid for a couple of hours followed by the ultrasonic bath (thank you for the tip Mr Millyard ;)). Two of the pilot jets ap[pear to be moth eaten and I will replace these and one of the needles from my spares stash.
On to chrome plating, I finally found a plater in the London area! They are called Ashford Chrome Plating and are located in Crayford, SE London and they are very professional from the tour of the workshop they gave me when I went to have a look last week. They have their own repair facility where I saw a bumper that was full of holes being patched, panel beaten and polished prior to plating. I cleaned up my parts ready for plating. The inside of the points cover was thick with black paint so I used the multi coloured polishing wheels reccomended by Ken to strip it off, they are fantastic bits of kit, well worth buying :). I also used these on the kickstart knuckle as the knuckle is a really rough chrome plated casting and looks terrible, I dont know why Honda fitted such a rough finished part in an area where it could be seen. After a couple of hours with various files and the polishing wheels it was ready to take to the chrome plater. I managed to seperate the rear light following a great tip from Ash of how to do it.
When I took the parts to be plated they didn't like the look of the brazed repairs to the rear mudguard, I spent hours on this rubbing it down but it wasn't to their standard so they are going to have another go at it ???. They said they will send me photographic updates of the parts as they travel through the workshop. Whilst I was there I noticed various parts of another 400/4 going through the plating process and they looked really good so hopefully my parts will look the same.
I have nearly finished polishing the carb tops and bowls ready to rebuild them. The powder coater has called and my frame is ready to collect. Hopefully all the vapour blasting will be ready to collect next week and I will be able to mount the carbs on the vapour blasted rail along with the new S/S carb spindle Max has made for me. Still awaiting for the return of the fork stanchions from Philpotts, its been a long wait so far.
Engine wise, I have bought a good set of gear shafts from Ted after mine were found to be beyond trying to save due to damage on the shafts. The vapour blasted barrels and head are now with NJ & Graham for a rebore and checking for bent valves and worn guides.
Spares, I am unable to avoid it any longer, I will have to place an order to DSS, more wallet bashing :-\
Post by: Oddjob on January 27, 2024, 05:57:57 PM
Post by: magpie114 on January 27, 2024, 07:42:15 PM
Post by: taysidedragon on January 27, 2024, 07:52:11 PM
after plating.
Post by: Laverda Dave on January 28, 2024, 11:29:47 AM
Ken, those polishing wheels are amazing and you wonder how can plastic remove metal but it does! Only downside I found is if you catch them on a sharp edge it will strip them in a millisecond so you have to be careful. But like all things, practice makes perfect 👍
Post by: Oddjob on January 28, 2024, 11:41:06 AM
I've never stripped the fronds off a single one so you must be doing something wrong and it must be that. I have found that if working toward an edge, like the edge of a casing for example work down towards it not up, so have the edge of the casing below the disc not above or when it feels the edge it will just grab it and fling itself upwards and away.
Don't use any pressure either, just light pressure only, after a while you get used to how much pressure to use and you'll find they'll last ages that way. Best to use 2 on a mandrel or 1 if you're doing a groove (like a piston ring groove).
Post by: Rozabikes Tim on January 28, 2024, 11:53:25 AM
Post by: Oddjob on January 28, 2024, 12:05:55 PM
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0CCY4CVG2?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details
Observe direction as I posted above, these have one more colour than my normal ones, 8 different grades as opposed to 7. Best used with 2 on a mandrel, 3 at a pinch, one if needed to get into a narrow area.
You can get a really good finish on a carb body just by using them, no polishing at all, as in this result using just the finer grades, probably purple and light green and finishing off with white.
(https://i.postimg.cc/6p4ndXtp/IMG-3113.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WdjdvxdB)
For the really deep and confined areas I had to use some different tools but 95% of that finish was done with those wheels.
My only advise when buying these is buy 2 sets at least, they do last really well but you'll end up using them so much you'll be ordering another set and more quite soon or they'll run out just when your really close to finishing the job ;D
Post by: Johnny4428 on January 28, 2024, 12:14:30 PM
Post by: Rozabikes Tim on January 28, 2024, 12:45:03 PM
Post by: Oddjob on January 28, 2024, 02:06:40 PM
I remember recommending these to Roo and him telling me one day how he'd shredded a few of them and I suddenly remembered I'd not mentioned about the dots to him and sure enough he'd fitted them backwards and destroyed them, oddly enough the first time they came out the manufacturers made a big thing of making sure you knew about this but they seem to assume people know this by now and it's barely mentioned anymore.
The finish on the carb took me about 3 hours IIRC, it's only on one side (and still is) as it was just an experiment, the part where the manifold rubber fits is not done, so you can see how it looked roughly before I started. I might eventually do a whole bank and see how they look mounted, might be good, might be bad. Might also be interesting to see how the finish lasts under road use.
I'm currently using the dark green and dark blues to dress up my 500 frame, getting rid of all the weld splatters that Honda just painted over, also use them to dress up metal that's pitted from rust, get rid of the rust using normal flap wheels then get rid of the marks they leave by using these discs, going up in grades etc. You can find the discs in all one colour for instance, I find I use more dark greens etc than any other colour so I buy 30-50 dark greens are a time to make sure I have enough. It can be expensive but one buy like that can last over a year and I use them a LOT.
Post by: Laverda Dave on January 31, 2024, 10:43:02 PM
Post by: AshimotoK0 on January 31, 2024, 10:52:44 PM
Interested to know what they charge for future reference.
Post by: Laverda Dave on January 31, 2024, 11:21:07 PM
All credit to Ashford Chrome, they asked me if I was in a hurry and would I like a tour of the workshop including the panel beating area, repair shop, polishing shop, plating area and then upstairs to the quality control and wrapping. The guys working there were friendly and really enjoy what they do.They do top quality work but obviously it comes at a quality price. The whole place was super clean with no fumes in the atmosphere. I only took the parts in two weeks ago so good to know they weren't left sitting in a manky cardboard box in a dusty corner. They went through every part with me checking for corrosion, dents etc. I spent hours preparing the rear mudguard following the brazing repairs, I was happy with it, Ashford Chrome were not and just said they would bring it up to their own pre plating standard. This was after we had agreed a price and was part of the service.
They do the chrome on the Eagle E-Type cars, so they are no mugs and have a reputation to uphold in everything they do. Good to see and they are true artisans.
Post by: Oddjob on February 01, 2024, 06:41:32 AM
I can’t remember if they mentioned who does his chroming but I do remember on a previous build him doing a tour of the workshop and it was a pretty dirty place so probably not Ashford by the sound of it.
Do they do a postal service as not all of us can drop off parts.
Parts look good Dave but I’m betting it comes at a high price.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on February 01, 2024, 09:11:39 AM
My original 400 chain guard cost me a hefty £150 they removed a small dent as part of the service.
Post by: AshimotoK0 on February 01, 2024, 09:13:57 AM
If you watched the GT750 restoration build that Henry Cole did last year (which is being repeated now) the bill for his chroming was £1750.
I can’t remember if they mentioned who does his chroming but I do remember on a previous build him doing a tour of the workshop and it was a pretty dirty place so probably not Ashford by the sound of it.
I have seen him using these people in Yate, Bristol ...think it was his chopper resto. though.
https://www.stchrome.co.uk/previous-work
I noticed that after Wheeler Dealers used a sh*tty place for a Triumph Spitfire's bumper and MarqueRestore in Coventry got the parts in from the next owner and slated them, that they are now using MarqueRestore in their latest programmes.
Ha ha if you look at the comments from the original chromer in this video there are tons of expletives.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mzma3Vr4n9o&t=286s
Post by: Johnny4428 on February 01, 2024, 09:40:37 AM
Post by: Laverda Dave on February 01, 2024, 10:56:09 AM
Interesting to see your stuff done at the copper plate stage Dave.
When I was there dropping everything off Johnny they told me they leave the items for 16 hours in the cooper bath. I used to think it was a matter of minutes.
I don't know why but seeing those parts with all that copper reminds me of when I was a kid and we used to have our family holiday in Worthing (every single year for 10 years). There used to be a public toilet and the caretaker was always polishing the copper pipes and brassware, it used to gleam.
Maybe though I should learn to get out more into the workshop instead of reminiscing about public toilets ::)
Post by: Johnny4428 on February 01, 2024, 11:34:43 AM
Interesting to see your stuff done at the copper plate stage Dave.
When I was there dropping everything off Johnny they told me they leave the items for 16 hours in the cooper bath. I used to think it was a matter of minutes.
I don't know why but seeing those parts with all that copper reminds me of when I was a kid and we used to have our family holiday in Worthing (every single year for 10 years). There used to be a public toilet and the caretaker was always polishing the copper pipes and brassware, it used to gleam.
😂😂 pride in your job! In the days when public toilets were looked after now they are just vandalised and closed.
Maybe though I should learn to get out more into the workshop instead of reminiscing about public toilets ::)
Post by: Laverda Dave on February 24, 2024, 03:16:26 PM
The carb bodies are now assembled as far as I can go. 4 washes in the ultrasonic bath, a can of carb cleaner, a new viton o-ring kit from Julie, new hoses, top gaskets, yellow passivate linkages (or hardware as they say in the US) and some new float pivots made from 1.9mm brass rod has, I hope, given me a set of decent refurbished carbs. I will mount them on the carb rail when I get it back from vapour blasting next week and will fit the new stainless spindle from the workshop of Max.
The new viton clutch cush drive bought from Max has also been fitted. I found the best way to fit them in the end was to liberally coat them with red rubber grease and fit them onto the oval shaped spigots. I then gently tapped the ring gear over them, the rubber grease allowed the gear to slide over them very smoothly. The whole assembly was done up using s/s csk bolts supplied with the kit and these were coated in green loctite and the ends of the threads were staked. Hopefully they will not come undone any time soon!
I collected the chrome from Ashford Platers in Crayford last week and they have done an outstanding job, chrome so deep you could shave (or even swim) in it. Anyone who remembers the rear mudguard with the two PO cut thrupenny bit holes in it for a tombstone rear light will be hard pushed to find any evidence of them. The blacksmith who filled the holes was a true artisan and the chrome really shows it all off. I can 100% recommend Ashford Chrome although they are really expensive you get what you pay for. As the saying goes ‘If you think a professional is expensive wait until you employ an amateur!’ Turnaround time was a very impressive five weeks. I dealt with a true gent called Bishop and he sent me regular video updates of the parts progressing through the process (that’s his reflection in the photos).
I’ve had an old non-working CB400/4 horn in my spares bin for at least 15 years. I read up on Ash’s anatomy of a horn in his Aladdin’s cave and thought I had nothing to lose so gave it a go. Getting the crimp undone was the worst part but once it was apart I could see it the contacts that were rusty. A bit of judicious cleaning with some wet and dry and it was working! Getting the crimp back on was even harder than taking it off as there is so little metal to play with. I would have liked to have got the completed horn zinc plated but I thought better of it as the crimping would probably leak and the horn would have been destroyed so I used a can of alloy/zinc paint from Lidl to paint it. Not original I know but considering the horn is fitted with a black plastic cover I am not worried.
I collect the vapour blasting next week and can finally get on with some assembly.
All this activity will likely result in a nose bleed!
Post by: AshimotoK0 on February 24, 2024, 03:41:34 PM
Your carb inlet rubbers are lovely and soft now (took four 8 hour dunks in the magic brew in the end to get the correct pliability) and the coils are ready .... except waiting for the 3mm ID black woven glass sleeve to arrive, as I decided to replace your LT cables as well.
Funnily enough I was just about to dig out a 400F / G5 horn out to refurbish. I am going to have a go at plating the parts with suitable masking and then re-crimp. Very difficult item to re-crimp though as you say.
Post by: Laverda Dave on February 24, 2024, 03:48:42 PM
I was really pleased with how the horn turned out and it is really loud. Thanks for putting that post in the alladins cave, why buy new when all it takes to keep an old genuine part is a few hours tinkering :)
Post by: AshimotoK0 on February 24, 2024, 04:15:55 PM
Post by: Laverda Dave on February 26, 2024, 10:50:13 AM
I did try the ‘boil in a bag’ method a few years ago that I read somewhere when I was restoring the varnish blue 400/4. This involved dropping the horn in a pan of boiling water for a while and the theory was the heat would dissolve any internal corrosion. It didn’t but it did a good job of making the outside casing go rusty ::). After that failure I threw it back into the storage box for another day and another method.
Well done for being the first to take one apart AND the top tip of moving the top contact away from the lower contact to make it easier to clean. Another obsolete part saved from the council tip and pressed back into service :)
Post by: Laverda Dave on March 04, 2024, 07:54:54 PM
I have finally completed the rebuild of the carbs having got the mounting rail and lifting arms back from vapour blasting. These are now bench synced using a 1mm drill. I have fitted new fuel and overflow pipes and clips. I fitted a new stainless spindle supplied by Max. It appears from the parts book I am missing the clip from No.2 carb that holds the fuel pipe. I’ll probably make one from a piece of stainless to finish the job.
I also received the hubs back from blasting and painting and have fitted new bearings and dust seals. I will be taking these to a local wheel builder tomorrow to have them laced up to the new DID rims with stainless spokes.
I have taken the seat catch apart, cleaned it all up and repainted the body and have also overhauled the brake cylinder fitting a new piston and seal. The front brake calliper has also received similar treatment with a new stainless piston. I noticed I am missing a small, flat piece that is supposed to fit below the master cylinder and is bolted to brake lever pivot, does anyone know what purpose this serves and does anyone have one to spare please?
All the engine cases have been blasted and painted with 2-pack acrylic (silver fox) by R & D Cox in Reading (as used by Mr Millyard), these are now safely stored awaiting the engine build.
I also received a heavy crate from NJ & Trigger containing the rebored barrels with a new set of NOS +50 Honda pistons from Ted. Also included was the refurbished and skimmed cylinder head with new guides and valves after finding one of the originals was bent (how exactly do you bend a valve?). All the exhaust valves were replaced as well and a small chip on the edge of the combustion chamber was welded up.
Next job is to paint strip the fuel tank, that’s going to be fun!
Post by: Johnny4428 on March 04, 2024, 08:21:58 PM
Post by: Bryanj on March 04, 2024, 08:39:03 PM
Post by: magpie114 on March 04, 2024, 08:40:53 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Nurse Julie on March 04, 2024, 08:41:50 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on March 04, 2024, 08:44:48 PM
Instead of using a 1mm drill shaft as I did on the 400 I've gone for the zero option. As soon as I detected a lifting of the first slider I locked it off and moved onto carbs 2,3 &4. Effectively I was aiming for a hairs width of movement - then using the main throttle stop to give me a 1mm gap. My thinking is that the smaller the gap the smaller the potential error. Plenty of thread on the main throttle idle stop screw to lift the sliders to the 1 mm point. It might of course not maintain the slider gaps. If it's a disaster then it will need doing properly with a synch gauge.
Post by: Bryanj on March 04, 2024, 08:48:22 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on March 04, 2024, 09:03:28 PM
I'm minded to use some decent synch gauges as well.
Post by: davidcumbria on March 04, 2024, 10:52:55 PM
Did you do the Bzp yourself or if not where was it done?
Stunning mate👍
Post by: Rozabikes Tim on March 04, 2024, 11:07:43 PM
Carbs are the best I’ve seen.👏👏👏
Did you do the Bzp yourself or if not where was it done?
Stunning mate👍
Dare I say it Ken would be proud of you and that bling!
Post by: Laverda Dave on March 04, 2024, 11:12:11 PM
Carbs are the best I’ve seen.👏👏👏
Did you do the Bzp yourself or if not where was it done?
Stunning mate👍
Dare I say it Ken would be proud of you and that bling!
😁 I hope so Tim. It was Ken who put me onto those wizz-bang polishing wheels I used on the bowls. Thanks for the tip Ken👍.
Post by: Laverda Dave on March 04, 2024, 11:14:22 PM
Carbs are the best I’ve seen.👏👏👏
Did you do the Bzp yourself or if not where was it done?
Stunning mate👍
My old mate Gary plated everything at Hayes Electroplating Dave. He's a true master and perfectionist. Such a shame he can no longer chrome plate, he was absolutely awesome at that. Mr Bling I call him.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on March 04, 2024, 11:15:56 PM
Post by: AshimotoK0 on March 05, 2024, 08:38:05 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on March 05, 2024, 09:19:34 AM
Post by: AshimotoK0 on March 05, 2024, 09:34:08 AM
I agree with Ash the Yellow pasivation is brilliant - how did you do the steel carb blanking plugs - presumably you had to remove them?
They press out pretty easily Ted.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on March 05, 2024, 09:59:51 AM
I can't check my old master cylinder as I gave it to Simon who has since sold his 500.
Bryan might know the answer in the absence of Ken.
Post by: AshimotoK0 on March 05, 2024, 10:39:20 AM
No one seems to have responded to your question about the brake pivot bar thing you are missing.
I can't check my old master cylinder as I gave it to Simon who has since sold his 500.
Bryan might know the answer in the absence of Ken.
If he means the plate that holds in the rubber rebound tube .. I have a used spare one Dave that you can have.
Or if you want a brand spanking new one https://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/parts/by-part-number/partnumber_45527300000/
The rubber tube replaced the threaded bar with a flat on it and M6 nut that was fitted to the earliest CB750 master cylinders that acted as an adjustable stop.
Post by: Laverda Dave on March 05, 2024, 11:34:16 AM
Those carbs are amazing Dave. Plus you correctly yellow chromate passivated the parts .... unlike a lot of the pro carb 'restorers'. A lot of people argue that they were BZP originally but I have seen a NOS set of 400 carbs in their original Honda box and they were definitely yellow passivated. Problem is that components and memories fade :)
Thanks for all the positive feedback everyone. It is a nice feeling actually putting things back together instead of taking them apart and finding something else that is worn out or broken!
Ash, I remember a discussion about the carb hardware and the correct finish about a year ago as I found the back of one of the blanking plates still had its yellow passivate finish. I also remember the 'push only' 400/4 at the Silverstone auction having the same finish on all the hardware (I think that is the same bike in your photo as it is a yellow one and you can see just how fast it is standing still ;)). The rear brake lever pivot also has yellow passivate finish so I got this done at the same time. I got the new carb felts from Ken and they fitted perfectly.
The brake lever pivot/plate thing ('thing' being a technical term I use to describe something of unknown origin that I know nothing about), yes that's it. What does it actually do? It isn't sprung, it isn't a switch and it is bolted to the brake lever casting? I also notice it has some kind of bush that goes into a hole in the brake lever casting, what is the bush for? I know the old saying that Honda wouldn't fit anything if they could help it in order to save some cash but I am at a loss trying to think what this part actually does? I cannot find a description anywhere. If you have a spare one can I have it please Ash as it obviously serves a purpose for something brake related?
Dave
Post by: Laverda Dave on March 05, 2024, 11:37:32 AM
Post by: Bryanj on March 05, 2024, 11:55:21 AM
Post by: Laverda Dave on March 05, 2024, 12:36:41 PM
Should be rubber forthe lever to bounce against
[/quote
So in effect a 'soft stop' Bryan to prevent a hard metal to metal contact between the lever and body?
Post by: AshimotoK0 on March 05, 2024, 12:58:13 PM
Also dealt with here :- http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=147275.0
[attachimg=3]
On the early disc braked bikes they used this arrangement to adjust the free play
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
Post by: Laverda Dave on March 05, 2024, 01:11:54 PM
Post by: Laverda Dave on March 05, 2024, 01:12:46 PM
'Reassuringly expensive' as a mate of mine would say ;D
Good to finally know what it does though, thanks Ash👍
Post by: Cb750r on March 05, 2024, 02:46:13 PM
This is a photo of my friends dad as he helped in the pit crew for this bike in the early 70s in Canada, my friend is trying to track down the bike/current owner.
If you have any suggestions for him it would be appreciated.
Post by: Laverda Dave on March 05, 2024, 07:54:01 PM
His best bet is to join the Laverda forum. It is truly international with some very helpful people who will 99% know where that bike is or at least it's history. Laverda race bikes are rare and expensive and they tend to move in specialist circles.
One guy who will probably know more than most is Jean-Louis Olive. He knows all there is to know about Laverda race bikes and their development. He has written some fantastic books on the subject and is on the forum. Another guy is Manix who used to race them and also on the site. The site is actually Canadian run I believe.
Good luck with tracing it, if it's still around it will be worth a few bob as we say in blighty 👍
Dave
Post by: Deano400 on March 05, 2024, 07:56:16 PM
I agree with Ash the Yellow pasivation is brilliant - how did you do the steel carb blanking plugs - presumably you had to remove them?
They press out pretty easily Ted.
Ash, would you recommend any sort of sealant when replacing the caps or is it just a matter of pressing them back in?
Post by: Laverda Dave on March 05, 2024, 07:59:57 PM
Post by: Deano400 on March 05, 2024, 08:08:39 PM
Post by: Laverda Dave on March 05, 2024, 08:11:26 PM
Hi I know this is a side track for your thread, but as you have Laverda in your handle you might be have seen this or know where to look.
This is a photo of my friends dad as he helped in the pit crew for this bike in the early 70s in Canada, my friend is trying to track down the bike/current owner.
If you have any suggestions for him it would be appreciated.
Just noticed the bike is an SFC production racer, rare and expensive. JLO will likely know it's history and where it is now as there is a register of them. The frames on those were not painted but galvanized. A good mate of mine up in Scotland had one and he let me ride it for a couple of hours, absolutely fantastic, a true racer on the road. I know he sold it for £25k about 15 years ago and they are worth a lot more than that now. If the bike in your photo is a genuine Laverda endurance factory bike, name your price!
Post by: Cb750r on March 05, 2024, 11:19:28 PM
Hi I know this is a side track for your thread, but as you have Laverda in your handle you might be have seen this or know where to look.
This is a photo of my friends dad as he helped in the pit crew for this bike in the early 70s in Canada, my friend is trying to track down the bike/current owner.
If you have any suggestions for him it would be appreciated.
Just noticed the bike is an SFC production racer, rare and expensive. JLO will likely know it's history and where it is now as there is a register of them. The frames on those were not painted but galvanized. A good mate of mine up in Scotland had one and he let me ride it for a couple of hours, absolutely fantastic, a true racer on the road. I know he sold it for £25k about 15 years ago and they are worth a lot more than that now. If the bike in your photo is a genuine Laverda endurance factory bike, name your price!
Thanks for the reply. I think he’s made contact with a person named Marnix on Facebook, but the other info and person may help. I see those bikes fetch top dollar! I can’t say I’m well versed in them.
Post by: Rozabikes Tim on March 06, 2024, 07:51:46 AM
Post by: Laverda Dave on March 08, 2024, 01:00:14 PM
I managed to get some industrial paint stripper from a mate who had a drop left after stripping his Ford Pop Hot-Rod. Despite being ‘industrial’ it still struggled and it took three coats to remove the paint from the tank. The PO said he had painted the black over the original yellow, there was no yellow at all on the tank so maybe it is another tank. There is some filler but this is a light coat as there are no dents in the tank that I can see and all is good around the seams. I filled the tank with DEOX-C and boiling water and wrapped it up in the NASA blanket to keep it warm whilst it does its work to remove the internal rust.
I replaced the wheel bearings before taking the completed hubs and new DID rims to a retired gent who has laced wheels for me previously. I dropped them off on Tuesday morning, at 3pm on Tuesday he called to say they were ready! I collected them this morning, £250 including the stainless spoke sets for both wheels and labour, pretty good value considering a stainless spoke set is about £85 per wheel.
Today I’m going to be soaking and scrubbing the various rubber components, I done it once but when they dried out they were still really grubby. I’ll use some rubber restore to bring them back up to a presentable condition.
Post by: Johnny4428 on March 08, 2024, 02:38:37 PM
Post by: taysidedragon on March 08, 2024, 04:06:28 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on March 08, 2024, 04:09:05 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Laverda Dave on March 08, 2024, 04:36:24 PM
Good progress Dave, that’s bloody cheap for laced rims including the spokes in SS. In fact a veritable bargain
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
He gave me a big free jar of honey from the hives he keeps in the back of his house (next to the wheel building shed)🐝. Even better value 😁.
Post by: Laverda Dave on March 22, 2024, 10:17:51 PM
Today I finally commenced with the engine rebuild starting with another deep clean of the crankcase halves that were blasted and painted. I have fitted new shells on the conrods and mains (thanks Ash). I've also fitted the complete layshaft and countershaft I purchased from Ted after giving everything a good check and all was found to be serviceable including the bearings. All new seals have been fitted. Tomorrow will be closing the cases and fitting the barrels rebored by Trigger with +50 NOS Honda pistons I purchased from Ted.
I have also fitted a taper bearing headrace set from Pyramid Parts and..............they don't fit properly despite being advertised as the correct kit! The top bearing (15mm depth) protrudes 6.5mm from the top of the steering head with the result I could only obtain one turn on the castellated nut and nothing at all on the top yoke centre nut! I removed the 3mm washer from below the lower race on the yoke which itself was really difficult to do without causing damage and refitted the dust seal with the lower bearing sitting directly on it with no spacer at all. This allowed three turns on the castellated nut but still only one and half turns on the top yoke centre nut. I have been in contact with Pyramid Parts and asked them to comment becuase I don't think having only 1.5 turns on the top nut feels particually safe.
Post by: Laverda Dave on April 18, 2024, 04:52:00 PM
The big win was getting the engine finished and installed into the frame although I seriously can't recommend lifting an engine on your own from the work bench and onto the floor!
The rebore was done by Graham (Trigger) with the +50 NOS Honda piston sets. Graham also refurbished the head and this included replacing a bent inlet valve and a couplke of exhaust valves as well as a bit of welding to the combustion chamber where it had a chip on the edge.
Once the engine was in I installed the sump, put the forks in and the wheels on a temporary basis to allow me to get the rolling chassis onto the bike lift.
Post by: Laverda Dave on April 18, 2024, 04:59:20 PM
This morning I collected the finished paint set from Tony at Cyclesprays in Horsham, Sussex. He has done a marvelous job considering the tank I took to him! He placed the decals on the tank (decals supplied by Piki (Reddice) on here) and clear coated them with the same on the side panels. I'll decide it I want to put the saving lives sticker above the fuel tank, I don't really like the look of it!
I went to refit the carbs yesterday but thought I'd bench test them first with fuel to check the floats, of course one leaked really badly (No 1). A frustrating three hours spent adjusting the float and re-testing got me nowhere and it looks like I'll have to fit one of the new Keyster float valves to replace the original as the tip looks worn. What is it about 400/4 carbs, they work fine one minute and flood the next!
Next job will be to fit the carbs and handlebars with the switches.
Post by: magpie114 on April 18, 2024, 05:09:47 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Laverdaroo on April 18, 2024, 05:36:03 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on April 18, 2024, 05:40:00 PM
lf the bowls have little or no fuel in them you can get a situation where as the float bowls drop down down at an acute angle they rest against the bowl side causing a potential sticking incident.
This enables a situation where sometimes there is a jam of the valve in the 'gap' between the float bracket brassware and the valve seat as it is out of the normal operating range/angle of seating due to the low fuel level in the bowl.
The above jam is such that even thought the petrol is pouring into the bowl the float is unable to rise as it should as the valve is stuck in the above 'gap'.
This does not happen as an event every time my fuel is switched on after being stood for a few days or drained over winter.
I have just rocked the bike from side to side whist astride my 400 this causes the flooding to stop pretty much immediately after any petrol in the overflow pipe has run out.
I suspect it is linked to the brassware attached to the float and possibly previous attempts to adjust the float level.
Post by: Rozabikes Tim on April 18, 2024, 08:12:57 PM
Peter Horton refurbished the original clocks including converting the rev counter to a suitable 400/4 item from the 250 rev counter that was on the bike. They look fantastic and I asked Peter to put the MPH/KPH face on the speedo for no other reason than I like them :-).
This morning I collected the finished paint set from Tony at Cyclesprays in Horsham, Sussex. He has done a marvelous job considering the tank I took to him! He placed the decals on the tank (decals supplied by Piki (Reddice) on here) and clear coated them with the same on the side panels. I'll decide it I want to put the saving lives sticker above the fuel tank, I don't really like the look of it!
I went to refit the carbs yesterday but thought I'd bench test them first with fuel to check the floats, of course one leaked really badly (No 1). A frustrating three hours spent adjusting the float and re-testing got me nowhere and it looks like I'll have to fit one of the new Keyster float valves to replace the original as the tip looks worn. What is it about 400/4 carbs, they work fine one minute and flood the next!
Next job will be to fit the carbs and handlebars with the switches.
That's so fast Dave, just sitting on the table in such a yellow way!!
Seriously top job on the paint - local guy to you?
Post by: taysidedragon on April 18, 2024, 08:34:06 PM
The bike will be up and running in no time. 😎
Post by: Laverda Dave on April 19, 2024, 09:19:46 AM
My only observation about 400 carbs is anecdotal if the flooding is not when the bike has been running normally.
lf the bowls have little or no fuel in them you can get a situation where as the float bowls drop down down at an acute angle they rest against the bowl side causing a potential sticking incident.
This enables a situation where sometimes there is a jam of the valve in the 'gap' between the float bracket brassware and the valve seat as it is out of the normal operating range/angle of seating due to the low fuel level in the bowl.
The above jam is such that even thought the petrol is pouring into the bowl the float is unable to rise as it should as the valve is stuck in the above 'gap'.
This does not happen as an event every time my fuel is switched on after being stood for a few days or drained over winter.
I have just rocked the bike from side to side whist astride my 400 this causes the flooding to stop pretty much immediately after any petrol in the overflow pipe has run out.
I suspect it is linked to the brassware attached to the float and possibly previous attempts to adjust the float level.
I mounted the carbs in the workmate and made sure they were on the level. Frantic tapping of the bowl did nothing to free a sticking float (if that's what it was). Looking at the float valve needle with a pair of watchmakers glasses I can see a very slight ridge so this is probably enough to prevent the valve properly closing. I have a bag of old carb spares so I'll see if I have an old valve as fitting a full set of Keyster parts once before they all leaked!
Post by: Laverda Dave on April 19, 2024, 09:36:21 AM
Peter Horton refurbished the original clocks including converting the rev counter to a suitable 400/4 item from the 250 rev counter that was on the bike. They look fantastic and I asked Peter to put the MPH/KPH face on the speedo for no other reason than I like them :-).
This morning I collected the finished paint set from Tony at Cyclesprays in Horsham, Sussex. He has done a marvelous job considering the tank I took to him! He placed the decals on the tank (decals supplied by Piki (Reddice) on here) and clear coated them with the same on the side panels. I'll decide it I want to put the saving lives sticker above the fuel tank, I don't really like the look of it!
I went to refit the carbs yesterday but thought I'd bench test them first with fuel to check the floats, of course one leaked really badly (No 1). A frustrating three hours spent adjusting the float and re-testing got me nowhere and it looks like I'll have to fit one of the new Keyster float valves to replace the original as the tip looks worn. What is it about 400/4 carbs, they work fine one minute and flood the next!
Next job will be to fit the carbs and handlebars with the switches.
That's so fast Dave, just sitting on the table in such a yellow way!!
Seriously top job on the paint - local guy to you?
🤣. Luckily the phone camera has a very fast shutter speed Tim and I was able to capture the photo despite the speed of that tank in its full yellow glory🫣.
Cycle Sprays is a 120 mile round trip for me but Tony is really good (it took him just over a week to paint everything once we had decided on the exact paint colour). I've used him a few times before and when I find someone who is good and does what they say they will do I stick with them.
To do the full paint set (two sidepanels, tank and headlight bowl including the prep (I stripped the old paint off the tank)) including applying the decals and clear coat cost £580 which to me is a good price. I could have got it done cheaper elsewhere but there's the old saying 'If you think a professional is expensive wait until you employ an amateur'. Tony is also a biker, he had his Harley V-Rod at his shop yesterday with an amazing paint job as you'd expect!
Post by: K2-K6 on April 19, 2024, 09:38:55 AM
If brass, you could spin them in lathe and use a emery stick fine finish to dress the taper again.
Post by: Laverda Dave on April 19, 2024, 10:12:18 AM
I have some old genuine valves so I'll clean one up and try one of those.
Post by: Johnny4428 on April 19, 2024, 10:40:46 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on April 19, 2024, 10:55:53 AM
I mounted the carbs in the workmate and made sure they were on the level. Frantic tapping of the bowl did nothing to free a sticking float (if that's what it was). Looking at the float valve needle with a pair of watchmakers glasses I can see a very slight ridge so this is probably enough to prevent the valve properly closing. I have a bag of old carb spares so I'll see if I have an old valve as fitting a full set of Keyster parts once before they all leaked!
[/quote]
I believe members here have used a mild abrasive to bed in used valves, I guess it's unlikely to work on a badly worn valve.
Post by: Bryanj on April 19, 2024, 04:20:46 PM
Post by: Laverda Dave on April 19, 2024, 06:00:09 PM
I've been kept out of the man cave today as the O/H has a day off. I'll be back to restoration duties on Sunday and will try the spare valve and see how it goes. I may be in contact for bits if this plan fails😁👍.
You don't have a couple of the carb drain clips that fit to the swing arm pinch bolts do you? Happy to pay.
Cheers
Dave
Post by: Bryanj on April 19, 2024, 08:06:56 PM