Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB500/550 => Topic started by: eight0 on September 04, 2019, 04:38:12 PM
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Last week I finally got round to sending my wheel hubs off to Hagon to be built with Excel rims and SS spokes.
I left the rear hub assembly whole and asked them to take the bearings out and polish the hubs for me. I just had a call from them to say that they have made a bearing retainer tool, had the hub clamped to a milling machine, applied heat etc etc but cannot get the thing undone.
They have advised me to find a new hub...
I could ask them to send it back to me and try myself but if they can't do it when it's clamped in a milling machine then I am unlikely to be able to do it with just my bench vice.
Anyone got any pearls of wisdom?
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Do you know if they have drilled out the punch marks. If not they are extremely difficult to remove and will destroy the threads.
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It's a left hand thread, just in case they are trying the wrong way.
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Do you know if they have drilled out the punch marks. If not they are extremely difficult to remove and will destroy the threads.
He didn't say, so maybe not. I'll call them and find out.
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It's a left hand thread, just in case they are trying the wrong way.
Thanks Julie, He said they happened to have another hub they were doing for another customer and checked they were doing it the right way.
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It should come out then, if as Moorey has said they have drilled the punch marks out.
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They do not need to drill all the way through but just remove the bit of distorted thread caused by the punch.
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Thanks for the help. They aren't answering the phone now so I've sent them an email. Hopefully that's all it is!
I'll report back when I hear more.
For anyone looking a this post in the future, I just found this very clear and useful page. http://blacksquaremotorcycle.com/how-to-drill-out-stakes/
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I couldn’t get mine out. I ended up drilling it and splitting it. The replacement one screwed back in without any issues.
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I couldn’t get mine out. I ended up drilling it and splitting it. The replacement one screwed back in without any issues.
That's what I had to do on the last one I did
Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk
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They are a total sod to remove .. I had to make these up to get mine out. I made the big mistake of stripping the wheel rim before removing the retainer so I had to make a hub holding tool by welding the old sprocket to a piece of angle iron.. I am not 100% sure but mine may have been Loctited too, in addition to staking, by a PO as the bearing wasn't the original one.
[attachimg=1]
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I've just spoken to them again. They had drilled out the stakes, apparently the guys in the engineering shop spent a couple of hours trying to get it out.
They said they would try again and I said if they could drill it out then do that. There's a NOS retainer on ebay at the moment for 50 (seems steep but cheaper than a new hub)
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Personally I find it far easier to fasten the removing tool in the vice and put the wheel on top and then use the wheel to undo the retainers and never had a problem doing it that way.
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Personally I find it far easier to fasten the removing tool in the vice and put the wheel on top and then use the wheel to undo the retainers and never had a problem doing it that way.
Unfortunately I had already removed the spokes and hub
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Here's the tool I made.
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Personally I find it far easier to fasten the removing tool in the vice and put the wheel on top and then use the wheel to undo the retainers and never had a problem doing it that way.
Unfortunately I had already removed the spokes and hub
Same here ...I did that too... removed rim and spokes before getting the retainer unscrewed :(
David Silver sells a repro. retainer for £21 inc VAT.
https://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/CB500K0-FOUR-1971-USA/part_218973/
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Well I've had an update, they welded a huge bar to it and it still wouldn't move. He said the guys had never seen anything like it.
I guess I'll be looking for an new hub.
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Well I've had an update, they welded a huge bar to it and it still wouldn't move. He said the guys had never seen anything like it.
I guess I'll be looking for an new hub.
Worst Job I have ever had to do on a Honda by a mile. The steel brake liners in those hubs are prone to cracking too which makes them a bit hard to find. Can't they machine the old retainer out?
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Well I've had an update, they welded a huge bar to it and it still wouldn't move. He said the guys had never seen anything like it.
I guess I'll be looking for an new hub.
Worst Job I have ever had to do on a Honda by a mile. The steel brake liners in those hubs are prone to cracking too which makes them a bit hard to find. Can't they machine the old retainer out?
I asked but they said no.
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One rear wheel for sale in the UK currently but they want 270 +P&P which is nearly half what I paid for the entire bike.
Edit..... I've found a 500T hub on ebay for 20 quid. Does anybody know if they are the same? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HONDA-CB500T-REAR-WHEEL-HUB/173973870328?hash=item2881a696f8:g:I1wAAOSwiZtdNqqt
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If you are really looking at a total loss on this one then maybe something unusual could be considered.
I've moved components that are really really stuck by using an SDS hammer drill with rotary stop function to drive drifts etc and get things moving. You'd need a cold chisel tool that the end can be ground to make a hammer type face.
The idea is to use the hammer on the extraction tool to drive it, they usually start off with no movement but persistence with medium pressure usually results in any bond breaking down.
You don't have to lean on it like you're trying to break concrete, but a long consistent pressure normally gets anything moving.
Oh, and they'd definitely need ear defenders as it can take more than 10 mins to make something move. But once it starts you've usually solved it.
If the extractor has a hole in it they can use a long bolt through the bearing to keep engagement with the ring and not slip out.
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If you are really looking at a total loss on this one then maybe something unusual could be considered.
I've moved components that are really really stuck by using an SDS hammer drill with rotary stop function to drive drifts etc and get things moving. You'd need a cold chisel tool that the end can be ground to make a hammer type face.
The idea is to use the hammer on the extraction tool to drive it, they usually start off with no movement but persistence with medium pressure usually results in any bond breaking down.
You don't have to lean on it like you're trying to break concrete, but a long consistent pressure normally gets anything moving.
Oh, and they'd definitely need ear defenders as it can take more than 10 mins to make something move. But once it starts you've usually solved it.
If the extractor has a hole in it they can use a long bolt through the bearing to keep engagement with the ring and not slip out.
Thanks, I'll give that a go if I can't find a replacement. I'd have to get Hagon to send it back to me first. Also, I have a feeling if their machine shop guys who have a wealth of experience dealing with wheels and have a lot more heavy duty machinery than me can't do it then I definitely won't be able to.
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One rear wheel for sale in the UK currently but they want 270 +P&P which is nearly half what I paid for the entire bike.
Edit..... I've found a 500T hub on ebay for 20 quid. Does anybody know if they are the same? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HONDA-CB500T-REAR-WHEEL-HUB/173973870328?hash=item2881a696f8:g:I1wAAOSwiZtdNqqt
They have different parts numbers...
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According to CSMNL these have the same hub.
fits models
CB500 JAPAN
CB500K0 FOUR 1971 USA
CB500K0 FOUR AUSTRALIA
CB500K0 FOUR ENGLAND
CB500K0 FOUR EUROPEAN DIRECT SALES
CB500K0 FOUR FRANCE
CB500K0 FOUR GENERAL EXPORT
CB500K0 FOUR GERMANY
CB500K0 FOUR NETHERLANDS
CB500K1 FOUR 1972 USA
CB500K1 FOUR ENGLAND
CB500K1 FOUR EUROPEAN DIRECT SALES
CB500K1 FOUR FRANCE
CB500K1 FOUR GENERAL EXPORT
CB500K1 FOUR GERMANY
CB500K1 JAPAN
CB500K2 FOUR 1973 USA
CB500K2 GENERAL EXPORT
CB500P JAPAN
CB550 FOUR 1975 CB550K0 USA
CB550 K1 FOUR 1975 USA
CB550 K2 FOUR 1976 USA
CB550F SUPER SPORT 550 FOUR 1975 CB550FK0 USA
CB550F SUPER SPORT 550 FOUR 1976 USA
CB550F1 SUPER SPORT 550 FOUR 1976 AUSTRALIA
CB550F1 SUPER SPORT 550 FOUR 1976 CANADA
CB550F1 SUPER SPORT 550 FOUR 1976 ENGLAND
CB550F1 SUPER SPORT 550 FOUR 1976 EUROPEAN DIRECT SALES
CB550F1 SUPER SPORT 550 FOUR 1976 FRANCE
CB550F1 SUPER SPORT 550 FOUR 1976 GENERAL EXPORT KPH
CB550F1 SUPER SPORT 550 FOUR 1976 GENERAL EXPORT MPH
CB550F1 SUPER SPORT 550 FOUR 1976 GERMANY
CB550F2 SUPER SPORT 550 FOUR 1977 EUROPEAN DIRECT SALES
CB550F2 SUPER SPORT 550 FOUR 1977 FRANCE
CB550F2 SUPER SPORT 550 FOUR 1977 GERMANY
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They all have the -323- middlenumber, whereas the CB500T had -426-.
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Hmm ok thanks for the info guys.
I'm sure one will pop up at some point. In the meantime at least I'll have a nice new front wheel ready to go.
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I’m surprised they can’t just drill the ring in two places, and split the retaining ring with a chisel. Took me about 15 minutes to get mine out this way. It destroys the retaining ring, but if done correctly, there’s no damage to the hub or the threads and the new retaining ring screws in without issue.
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Eight0 I have a rear hub that you can have only problem is it need a new liner as old one is cracked.
In fact if you can get up to Kettering way I’ve a bag of stuff that you can have which includes brake plate with new shoes.
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Eight0 I have a rear hub that you can have only problem is it need a new liner as old one is cracked.
In fact if you can get up to Kettering way I’ve a bag of stuff that you can have which includes brake plate with new shoes.
Clive you legend! I don't have a car to get up to you unfortunately (not really needed in London) I'll send you a PM. How do you replace the liner and do you know where I can get one from? could I use the one from the hub I have?
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No as they are cast in but somewhere on the site is an address for a man in Huddersfield who will machine out the old one and shrink a new piece of cast in and machine that to size.
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No as they are cast in but somewhere on the site is an address for a man in Huddersfield who will machine out the old one and shrink a new piece of cast in and machine that to size.
Oh man it's never easy is it.
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Graham (Trigger) machines them out and fits new liners to them. Sold quite a few fully re furbed ones on Ebay recently but all sold now.
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Anyone with a medium sized lathe could machine the old retainer out. Re lining a drum is not too much harder, I did mine a fair few years ago, hardest bit was smuggling the new cast iron liner into and out of the freezer without a telling off from my Mrs, second hardest job was heating a hub up with bearings still in without damaging them as I couldn't get that retainer to move, even with a 1" bar welded to the retainer and the sprocket clamped in a leg vise allowing me to use sledgehammers. Worth it though, as has been said these hubs can be hard to get. The kind of job that let's a lathe pay for itself in short order. You could easily cut the retainer out with a drill or even a dremel and patience.
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Anyone with a medium sized lathe could machine the old retainer out. Re lining a drum is not too much harder, I did mine a fair few years ago, hardest bit was smuggling the new cast iron liner into and out of the freezer without a telling off from my Mrs, second hardest job was heating a hub up with bearings still in without damaging them as I couldn't get that retainer to move, even with a 1" bar welded to the retainer and the sprocket clamped in a leg vise allowing me to use sledgehammers. Worth it though, as has been said these hubs can be hard to get. The kind of job that let's a lathe pay for itself in short order. You could easily cut the retainer out with a drill or even a dremel and patience.
Thanks Matthew, Maybe my best bet is to ask hagon to send me the hub back and try to cut it out myself. I don't want to ask them to spend lots of time on it because for these guys time is money.. I wish I had realised all this before cutting the spokes from the wheel.
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This has just popped up on ebay.
Can anyone with a keener eye than me tell me if there's anything wrong with it?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-CB550-CB-550-K-F-genuine-rear-wheel-DID-1-85x18/352792064402?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2763.l2648
Thanks
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As you have nothing to lose and if not in a hurry. If you want to get them to send your old hub directly to me I will try to sort it out one way or another. Let me know and I will PM my address. Obviously I can make no promises but will keep you informed.
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As you have nothing to lose and if not in a hurry. If you want to get them to send your old hub directly to me I will try to sort it out one way or another. Let me know and I will PM my address. Obviously I can make no promises but will keep you informed.
That's very kind of you Moorey, I'll send you a PM.
I have no idea what state it's in now after they've gone at it for hours though, they said they tried lots of heat and welding something too it.. Maybe I'll ask them to send me a picture of it first...
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Well the ebay seller says its a front wheel and the K3 was a different hub and brake plate so its a risk
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Must be fairly stuck we shall see how we go on next week.
[attachimg=1]
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According to CSMNL these have the same hub.
fits models
CB500 JAPAN
CB500K0 FOUR 1971 USA
CB500K0 FOUR AUSTRALIA
CB500K0 FOUR ENGLAND
CB500K0 FOUR EUROPEAN DIRECT SALES
CB500K0 FOUR FRANCE
CB500K0 FOUR GENERAL EXPORT
CB500K0 FOUR GERMANY
CB500K0 FOUR NETHERLANDS
CB500K1 FOUR 1972 USA
CB500K1 FOUR ENGLAND
CB500K1 FOUR EUROPEAN DIRECT SALES
CB500K1 FOUR FRANCE
CB500K1 FOUR GENERAL EXPORT
CB500K1 FOUR GERMANY
CB500K1 JAPAN
CB500K2 FOUR 1973 USA
CB500K2 GENERAL EXPORT
CB500P JAPAN
CB550 FOUR 1975 CB550K0 USA
CB550 K1 FOUR 1975 USA
CB550 K2 FOUR 1976 USA
CB550F SUPER SPORT 550 FOUR 1975 CB550FK0 USA
CB550F SUPER SPORT 550 FOUR 1976 USA
CB550F1 SUPER SPORT 550 FOUR 1976 AUSTRALIA
CB550F1 SUPER SPORT 550 FOUR 1976 CANADA
CB550F1 SUPER SPORT 550 FOUR 1976 ENGLAND
CB550F1 SUPER SPORT 550 FOUR 1976 EUROPEAN DIRECT SALES
CB550F1 SUPER SPORT 550 FOUR 1976 FRANCE
CB550F1 SUPER SPORT 550 FOUR 1976 GENERAL EXPORT KPH
CB550F1 SUPER SPORT 550 FOUR 1976 GENERAL EXPORT MPH
CB550F1 SUPER SPORT 550 FOUR 1976 GERMANY
CB550F2 SUPER SPORT 550 FOUR 1977 EUROPEAN DIRECT SALES
CB550F2 SUPER SPORT 550 FOUR 1977 FRANCE
CB550F2 SUPER SPORT 550 FOUR 1977 GERMANY
Just had a look at this list and it is wrong. The 550 are different to the 500. It is down to what brake plate is fitted .
The 500 hub is on the right
[attachimg=1]
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[attachimg=1]
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Just shows how much you can trust the lists from CSMNL then. :(
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Different height also
[attachimg=2]
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Just shows how much you can trust the lists from CSMNL then. :(
Yes mate, and they also recon that the brake shoes are the same ;)
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The brake shoes are, its the hub and plate that are different.
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The brake shoes are, its the hub and plate that are different.
I have always had problems fitting EBC 316 shoes to the 500 but, fit perfectly to the 550 F1 and F2. I am not sure why the F2 parts list shows 3 different part numbers for the F2 ( 283, 404 and 458 ) but, the 500 list only shows one part number
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Must be fairly stuck we shall see how we go on next week.
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Fingers crossed! Really appreciate it Chris!
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Its out no damage done and the retainer is reusable. ;)
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Its out no damage done and the retainer is reusable. ;)
You're kidding! What did you do that Hagon didn't? Chris you're a legend.
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I have a magic wand. ;)
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Its out no damage done and the retainer is reusable. ;)
You're kidding! What did you do that Hagon didn't? Chris you're a legend.
What did I do that Hagon didn't.
I got it out. ;D ;D ;D
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[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
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(Attachment Link)
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Ah I see your magic wand in the background ;D
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Brilliant job, well done for getting that sorted Moorey.