Post by: MrDavo on July 16, 2020, 06:06:49 PM
As a last hurrah I'd like (but don't have to) to do a Z1. A mate of mine had a new one, and scared the pants off me when I went pillion on it, one of my contact lenses blew away at around 130mph on the M6, despite my wearing a Bell Star. The down side is that apparently a lot of other people would like one too, projects and finished bikes are almost (but not quite) sandcast money, good restos seem to start around the £20k mark. No way I'd pay that, which is why I want to restore one. Like with Hondas, there are so so restorations, and ones where the rims have the correct numbers stamped on etc...
Here's one that someone restored earlier, of course Frank has a bunch of them at £25k a pop, but then he would...
https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1094172
The upside of the daft prices is I should always get back any money I sink into it, as I more or less did with my CB750 (the money went to get the 911's rusty bodywork restored properly). However, a Z1 project bike DK have with a fair bit missing and broken head fins keeps being relisted as not meeting the reserve despite getting north of 9K. Resto costs would be several thousand, like with Hondas a set of pipes is an arm and a leg when you can find them, for example.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1973-Kawasaki-Z1-900-Unregistered-US-Import-Barn-Find-Classic-Restoration-Projct/353135219569
By the way, I know they always say it, but how the feck did they get it running on easy start without an exhaust system?
I get the impression, looking at online ads, that there are semi/professional restorers that snap these up to restore as a career, competing for increasingly rare project bikes.
Has anyone here done one? Should you come across a little old lady who is sick of struggling to get her lawn mower past an old Z1 that has laid in her garage for years, let me know. James probably has a 1,000 mile one owner Z1 stashed away somewhere...
Post by: Johnwebley on July 16, 2020, 06:26:24 PM
Interesting differences between Z1 and the sohc motors.
Worth exploring YouTube for
Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk
Post by: kevski on July 16, 2020, 07:39:09 PM
Post by: AshimotoK0 on July 16, 2020, 08:18:39 PM
It's bad enough getting hold of the Honda D.I.D. rims with the correct diamond logo and without the unsightly side scripting but the thought of having to search for correctly date coded Takasago rims would do my nut in ;D
What's the score with pattern pipes on a Z1 .. I have heard of Doremi but is there an equivalent of Yamiya No-number 750 HM300's?
I must admit that that is one gorgeous looking 4 into 4 on the Z1. It's such a shame that the Z650B1 didn't have a 4 into 4 . I had one of those and it was a really nice bike ... plain bearing crank though Dave so a big no-no. ;D ;D
Post by: Andrew-S on July 16, 2020, 09:53:06 PM
Buying a project 72 or 73 Z1 is very likely to be a false economy as so many have been butchered over the years (even those will cost stupid money) and have incorrect interchangeable parts fitted from later models i.e Z1A, Z1B and even the Z900, sourcing Z1 OEM exhausts will cost you north of £5k if you can even find them -Doremi do a good replica 4x4 which fits all models and are unstamped (as per the original 72/73 Z1), the Z1A/B were factory stamped so easily recognisable as being (or not being) reproduction. I could go on about the differences between the models but time and space prevent.......maybe buy a copy of Dave Marsden's book, Original Z1: http://www.z-power.co.uk/the-original-z1-restorers-guide-by-dave-marsden - the rest of the Z-Power website provides very useful info on date codes and availability of OEM and reproduction parts etc.
Not a project, but if you want to see a very good 73 Z1 (and rare UK example) have a look at this thread - my mate Dave is open to sensible offers on his Z1: http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,22733.0.html (http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,22733.0.html)
Cheers,
Andrew
Post by: MrDavo on July 17, 2020, 09:18:21 AM
Your mates bike is blooming lovely, Andrew, but i want to restore a bike for the pleasure of doing it, and so I don’t have to spend £20k. However it looks like these days you need that sort of wedge to find the right bike and do it properly.
I’ll check out that forum, thanks.
Post by: Andrew-S on July 17, 2020, 09:26:48 AM
Blimey, and I thought CB750 pipes were expensive!
Your mates bike is blooming lovely, Andrew, but i want to restore a bike for the pleasure of doing it, and so I don’t have to spend £20k. However it looks like these days you need that sort of wedge to find the right bike and do it properly.
I’ll check out that forum, thanks.
Yes Dave, 72/73 Z1 pipes are not cheap - I should clarify I was talking about NOS pipes.
Worth checking out the Z1 OC forum, might see you there too: http://z1ownersclub.co.uk/ (http://z1ownersclub.co.uk/)
Good luck with your hunt.
Post by: Andrew-S on July 17, 2020, 02:26:57 PM
My brother in law has a Z1000 with some OE Z1 pipes on it, he was saying the other day he's going to be selling it as his back won't let him ride it anymore. I may just end up buying it, it's not a Z1 but it's close enough I suppose.
He must have made up or bought the Doremi hanger brackets as the Z1000 as standard has a 4/2 set up. Z1000 A1's are starting to fetch decent money as the prices for the Z1, Z1A, B and Z900 keep going up, particularly home market bikes. The A2 less so, but it will catch up when the time is right. That also goes for the Z650, particularly the B1 - like most models the first generation command the highest prices.
I'd grab the Z1000 if you have the chance.
The Z1000 is actually slower than the Z1 due emission controls but still a very nice and proper Zed, see the road test report below.
Post by: Andrew-S on July 17, 2020, 03:02:17 PM
Difference between the A1 and A2 Andrew? forgive my ignorance Kwacks never interested me enough to research them, I like some of them but only the Z1 had me tempted to go away from Honda.
MY BIL bike looks just like the one in the article, same colour as well, sort of an olive green. Not sure how it got the exhausts to hang, I've never had to work on it as my other BIL does all the work on it, same BIL who keeps nicking my tools >:( >:(
The main noticable differences were: paint schemes, the A1 (77) was available in Diamond Wine Red or Diamond Sky Blue and the A2 (78) in Luminous Red or Green. Front calipers on the A2 moved to the rear of the fork legs. The A2 had lower handlebars.
Post by: sprinta on July 17, 2020, 09:33:11 PM
I think you want one 'cos they have a beefy roller bearing crank Dave .... after all the hassle you had with Honda plain bearing cranks.
It's bad enough getting hold of the Honda D.I.D. rims with the correct diamond logo and without the unsightly side scripting but the thought of having to search for correctly date coded Takasago rims would do my nut in ;D
What's the score with pattern pipes on a Z1 .. I have heard of Doremi but is there an equivalent of Yamiya No-number 750 HM300's?
I must admit that that is one gorgeous looking 4 into 4 on the Z1. It's such a shame that the Z650B1 didn't have a 4 into 4 . I had one of those and it was a really nice bike ... plain bearing crank though Dave so a big no-no. ;D ;D
Something to take onboard with the Doremi pipes is that they are not double skinned like the original downpipes were and as a result will tend to discolor.
Don't understand why they do not double skin them as the aftermarket Honda ones done by DS/Yamiya are.
I do not believe that Yamiya make a pipe set for the Kawasaki Z1 four pipers.
Fortunately I still have good original date stamped set on my Z900A4.
The Doremi set will generally set you back around £1200.
Post by: sprinta on July 17, 2020, 09:57:56 PM
Difference between the A1 and A2 Andrew? forgive my ignorance Kwacks never interested me enough to research them, I like some of them but only the Z1 had me tempted to go away from Honda.
MY BIL bike looks just like the one in the article, same colour as well, sort of an olive green. Not sure how it got the exhausts to hang, I've never had to work on it as my other BIL does all the work on it, same BIL who keeps nicking my tools >:( >:(
The main noticable differences were: paint schemes, the A1 (77) was available in Diamond Wine Red or Diamond Sky Blue and the A2 (78) in Luminous Red or Green. Front calipers on the A2 moved to the rear of the fork legs. The A2 had lower handlebars.
My Z1000A1 bought new in 77. Bought it from Paddock Wood in Kent which was run by Paul Smart at the time.
I traded in my CB750K2 for it.
Post by: Andrew-S on July 18, 2020, 08:22:10 AM
Just asked him Andrew and it's a A1. Any idea of value? it's in really good condition but he's fitted what appear to be genuine 4 into 4 exhausts.
Difficult to say without seeing photos or the bike, but it all depends on condition, history, originality and whether a UK or import - currently, I would say a very good clean A1 with all the right bits would fetch somewhere between £6k - £8k privately, more if in really top form or from a dealer and even more from Frank. Other opinions may vary.......
The Z1 the exhaust is unstamped, but so are Doremi and Delkevic, although there are ways to tell if it's an original set. An original Z1A or Z1B set would be stamped KHI 900 Z1/750 Z2 DGM xxx, if an original Z900 set (more ilkley) then the stamping would end 76. Good condition original exhausts are worth decent money, so it might be worth refitting a 4/2 and getting some money back on the 4/4 system.
Cheers, Andrew
Post by: Andrew-S on July 18, 2020, 08:33:56 AM
Has anyone here done one? Should you come across a little old lady who is sick of struggling to get her lawn mower past an old Z1 that has laid in her garage for years, let me know. James probably has a 1,000 mile one owner Z1 stashed away somewhere...
Dave,
Would you consider a Z900? The Z1 OC forum is down at the moment, but there is UK one for sale in need of a full restoration which was posted yesterday.
Cheers, Andrew
Post by: sprinta on July 18, 2020, 08:09:34 PM
Just spoken to the BIL Andrew and I was wrong, he's got a 4 into 2 on it, my mistake.
It's also an import (didn't know that) as was earmarked for the US police just before they switched over to Harleys so it didn't get converted.
He does however need a right hand front caliper if you know anyone who has one, for some reason his only has one front disc and he has all the parts needed except the caliper. Kinda rare beast as I've found.
The US bikes only had one disc. The UK bikes had the twin discs as std.
Try twowheelspares for a caliper, they have several at various prices:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kawasaki-Z650-B1-Z900-A4-Z750-B1-Twin-Rare-Front-Brake-Braking-Caliper-/312888608359?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10
Same caliper is used on both sides. I believe the brk is the same for both sides, just lift the caliper off and turn it around.
Post by: sprinta on July 19, 2020, 09:25:14 AM
Damn he said he'd found a left hand one cheap but passed on it cause he thought they were handed, TBH so did I as they have different part numbers.
To test that theory before buying I'll ask him to take off the left hand caliper and try a test fit onto the right leg.
Thanks for the info.
You may be right about the caliper brk being handed, worth trying. However, the caliper body is used on both sides, Part No: 43042-008.
Looking at the photos of when I did my A4 it does look as if the brk is handed as it has a machined face on one side where it attaches to the fork mount. It may be possible to modify a LH brk to fit on the RH side?
Post by: MrDavo on July 19, 2020, 09:26:00 AM
Zpower have a nice Z1 listed at a not too over the top price, but it’s not theirs and might be an old listing. I will get Dave Marsden’s book from them though, as information seems to be key.
If 70s Kawasaki brakes are anything like Honda ones, I can see why having two of them at the front would be a good thing!
Post by: Andrew-S on July 19, 2020, 10:19:06 AM
The Z900 A4 or A5 (the A5 was made in Nebraska) would make a good intro into Zed restoration and ownership (as would the Zed Thou), non-basket case projects start at around £4-5k with no descernable difference in the cost of restoration between these models, end values may vary though.
I'm happy to keep an eye out and will let you know if anything pops up that might be of interest.
Post by: MrDavo on July 22, 2020, 04:07:45 PM
And yes it has twin discs, because stopping is a good thing.
Post by: Andrew-S on July 22, 2020, 04:22:53 PM
No names no packdrill, as i don't want to nix the deal, but I'm close to buying a Z1A project, I'll let you know more when I own it.
And yes it has twin discs, because stopping is a good thing.
:)
Post by: MrDavo on July 28, 2020, 11:29:35 PM
Not complete, but what has been done is to a very high standard, photos when I get time.
Post by: Andrew-S on July 29, 2020, 09:39:38 AM
A long day, 500 mile round trip in a rented van, now the proud owner of a 1974 Z1A project.
Not complete, but what has been done is to a very high standard, photos when I get time.
Welcome to the 'Zed-head' club Dave.
Post by: MrDavo on July 29, 2020, 10:50:38 AM
I have most parts but not all, I'm going to print out a parts book and highlight all the parts I have, to find out what I haven't. I will be joining a waiting list for a set of pipes, like with CB500's they make a batch now and again which sell out in days.
(https://i.postimg.cc/2ycBXZy9/s-l1600b.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/L4NfsrDk/s-l1600i.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/RVhtJXpk/IMG_5307.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/L4NfsrDk/s-l1600i.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/1X5qHHmN/s-l1600j.jpg)
Post by: Rozabikes Tim on July 29, 2020, 01:00:22 PM
All bolted together for Sunday run then (on the dark side :o)
Post by: AshimotoK0 on July 29, 2020, 08:08:29 PM
Post by: MrDavo on July 30, 2020, 11:29:32 AM
I’m minded to pack the paintset up and put it in the attic for the foreseeable future, out of harm’s way in the now even more crowded garage.
Post by: royhall on July 30, 2020, 06:01:45 PM
Post by: MrDavo on July 30, 2020, 08:43:24 PM
I’ve printed out the relevant pages of the parts book, so I can get a handle on what parts I need to find. The good news is the very high standards to which the parts I have got were restored to, clearly someone set out to build a keeper.
It’s too much of a stretch to do a build thread here, it not only has two cams but also the K word on the tank. If you can bear to visit the dark side, I’m doing a build thread on the Z1 Owners forum which I have joined. It’s surprising how many names on there I know from here! Already they have saved me from an expensive mistake where I was going to follow the previous owners idea of building the Z1 hub into a wheel using a genuine Z900 A4 rim - you could but as the spokeangles are quite different due to a smaller hub, it wouldn’t end well. The A4 front wheel is now for sale, if anyone needs one.
Post by: AshimotoK0 on July 30, 2020, 09:03:16 PM
It’s too much of a stretch to do a build thread here, it not only has two cams but also the K word on the tank. If you can bear to visit the dark side, I’m doing a build thread on the Z1 Owners forum which I have joined. It’s surprising how many names on there I know from here!
Hmm .. went on there and spotted a literature area but it's asking me to log in to access it :( You can go on our Alladins cave stuff on here and download it without registering. Are we the mugs or what? I am paying a tenner a month to Dropbox to support the literature I have linked on here (which I do glady BTW to help others and encourage people to come and join us on here) and I would hate it if Steve didn't make this freely availabe to everyone who wants to access it.
This is what I got:
Sorry. You cannot read topics within this part of the forum.
Certain areas of the site are only available to registered users and some to paid up Z1OC Members.
If you want to access these restricted areas then please register/login/join the Club and help support its activities.
Post by: philward on July 30, 2020, 09:14:28 PM
Post by: Andych on July 30, 2020, 11:10:33 PM
It’s too much of a stretch to do a build thread here, it not only has two cams but also the K word on the tank. If you can bear to visit the dark side, I’m doing a build thread on the Z1 Owners forum which I have joined. It’s surprising how many names on there I know from here!
Hmm .. went on there and spotted a literature area but it's asking me to log in to access it :( You can go on our Alladins cave stuff on here and download it without registering. Are we the mugs or what? I am paying a tenner a month to Dropbox to support the literature I have linked on here (which I do glady BTW to help others and encourage people to come and join us on here) and I would hate it if Steve didn't make this freely availabe to everyone who wants to access it.
This is what I got:
Sorry. You cannot read topics within this part of the forum.
Certain areas of the site are only available to registered users and some to paid up Z1OC Members.
If you want to access these restricted areas then please register/login/join the Club and help support its activities.
Ash, I certainly have no issue with the information gathered being restricted... I am in another forum here in Aus that requires you to be a "Premium" member (for a minimal cost of $15 for 2 years) to access the Resources section... given that this goes towards keeping the forum Advertisement free and it is far cheaper than buying manuals etc (if you can get them).
Post by: SteveD CB500K0 on July 31, 2020, 06:34:41 AM
I have never considered paid membership and keep the place ad-free through members’ donations and a couple of sponsors.
The downside is that the same members pay most of the time (and probably more than they would have to for an annual fee)
The upside is that search engines can read everything so new members find us more easily and that “lurkers” can read all they want without the faff of joining a forum. When they want to contribute or ask a question they join up and we welcome them.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Johnwebley on July 31, 2020, 11:13:46 AM
I guess it’s a choice for the forum “owner”And I thank you for all you do.
I have never considered paid membership and keep the place ad-free through members’ donations and a couple of sponsors.
The downside is that the same members pay most of the time (and probably more than they would have to for an annual fee)
The upside is that search engines can read everything so new members find us more easily and that “lurkers” can read all they want without the faff of joining a forum. When they want to contribute or ask a question they join up and we welcome them.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk
Post by: MrDavo on July 31, 2020, 11:29:34 AM
For my front wheel I am today going to remove the tyre and rim, for rechroming, and see what I can do to tart up the hub. I've a spoke set on its way, I'll order new bearings too, I think.
This image is knicked from eBay, but as a restored US spec Z1A in green with double discs, its almost exactly what I'm going for. Its also £22k! :o :o
(https://i.postimg.cc/PJx92TGz/s-l16007.jpg)
Post by: Spitfire on July 31, 2020, 12:04:42 PM
Cheers
Dennis
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/4951/WNr74i.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/1295/wenyIn.jpg)
Post by: MrDavo on July 31, 2020, 01:31:44 PM
I have the parts book on a cd, but not the manual.
Brilliant, thanks Dennis
Post by: JamesH on July 31, 2020, 01:56:32 PM
Here's my MkII...
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200731/c5c411774379edca1c0fbe9d06d1ab43.plist)
Post by: Laverda Dave on July 31, 2020, 03:36:35 PM
I remember those when they came out, very Z1R looking with the tank/tailpiece combo.
Post by: sprinta on July 31, 2020, 07:40:43 PM
I'll follow your re-build with interest on the 'Dark' side!
Post by: Johnwebley on July 31, 2020, 07:52:32 PM
Check out his YouTube channel.
Very informative
Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk
Post by: AshimotoK0 on July 31, 2020, 08:43:01 PM
https://youtu.be/szWnwdjk16o
Post by: Rozabikes Tim on July 31, 2020, 08:56:03 PM
I'm a bit gutted you're not sharing the build on here Dave, as I don't frequent the Z1 forum much any more. But, looks like a great start for a build and a lot of the hard work has been done.Remember them in the day complete with Harris 4/1, Metamex swinging arm, cut down mudguard and tiny number plate. Rider usually in white baseball boots.
Here's my MkII...
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200731/c5c411774379edca1c0fbe9d06d1ab43.plist)
Post by: royhall on August 01, 2020, 08:21:41 AM
I’m glad you didn’t decide to snap it up Roy, I’d have had to watch you build it through my fingers thinking ‘that’s what you could have had!’.Cant say I agree with it being a stretch to do a thread on here as loads of members are interested in Zeds as well as many other bikes. You would however probably be able to access more specific help on the Dark Side. Hope you will update us occasionally with how its going though Dave with a few photo's. I joined the Z1 forum yesterday to watch the build but it would appear that registering is not enough, you also have to pay. Until I actually own a Z1 it's probably not worth it.
I’ve printed out the relevant pages of the parts book, so I can get a handle on what parts I need to find. The good news is the very high standards to which the parts I have got were restored to, clearly someone set out to build a keeper.
It’s too much of a stretch to do a build thread here, it not only has two cams but also the K word on the tank. If you can bear to visit the dark side, I’m doing a build thread on the Z1 Owners forum which I have joined. It’s surprising how many names on there I know from here! Already they have saved me from an expensive mistake where I was going to follow the previous owners idea of building the Z1 hub into a wheel using a genuine Z900 A4 rim - you could but as the spokeangles are quite different due to a smaller hub, it wouldn’t end well. The A4 front wheel is now for sale, if anyone needs one.
Post by: AshimotoK0 on August 01, 2020, 08:28:45 AM
Cant say I agree with it being a stretch to do a thread on here as loads of members are interested in Zeds as well as many other bikes. You would however probably be able to access more specific help on the Dark Side. Hope you will update us occasionally with how its going though Dave with a few photo's. I joined the Z1 forum yesterday to watch the build but it would appear that registering is not enough, you also have to pay. Until I actually own a Z1 it's probably not worth it.
+1 on that Roy... maybe some nice pics at critical milestones in the build would suffice... c'mon Dave you know we all want to see your progress ... you made such a good job on the restoration you did on the CL450. ;D ;D
Post by: SteveD CB500K0 on August 01, 2020, 09:01:00 AM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: MrDavo on August 01, 2020, 10:05:43 AM
I can’t post photos from my phone, though, so I’ll do that Monday when I’m meant to be working.
Yesterday it was too hot to work, so I went outside and took the tyre off the front wheel. I’m getting the rim rechromed, so I attacked the spokes with the angle grinder, then degreased the hub and speedo drive (I’ve two of those, one was immaculate and seized, the other filthy, full of grease and working just fine), and repainted with Simonize Satin Black.
The back mudguard isn’t perfect, the chrome is a little worn, but very original with the plastic sleeves over the cable holders. I’ve decided to use it as is, so spent some time polishing. It’s the US short version, I don’t really like the long UK ones.
Today I’m going to try and get a handle on what I’ve not got. Fasteners are thin on the ground, I have loads of generic ones I took of the CB750 somewhere, with alphabet soup on the heads, but I didn’t use them for a reason.
Post by: MrDavo on August 01, 2020, 10:08:56 AM
Post by: royhall on August 01, 2020, 10:48:59 AM
Post by: MrDavo on August 01, 2020, 11:18:13 AM
Anyone know where I can get them done around Manchester, or by post?
However, I was just thinking this through, while I was making a brew. The force on a disc bolt is in shear, rather than tension, so if helicoiled it is extremely unlikely the bolts will ever pull out. Plus once tightened up they probably won’t be disturbed again for a long time. Thoughts?
Post by: royhall on August 01, 2020, 12:01:29 PM
Post by: MrDavo on August 01, 2020, 12:07:50 PM
There’s plenty of meat anyway as the holes are drilled into the alloy hub.
Post by: royhall on August 01, 2020, 12:13:49 PM
Post by: Bryanj on August 01, 2020, 02:32:48 PM
Post by: royhall on August 01, 2020, 02:59:35 PM
Post by: Andrew-S on August 01, 2020, 04:28:39 PM
Ok you win, I’ll do both forums. I hadn’t realised that the Projects section wasn’t available to all.
I can’t post photos from my phone, though, so I’ll do that Monday when I’m meant to be working.
Yesterday it was too hot to work, so I went outside and took the tyre off the front wheel. I’m getting the rim rechromed, so I attacked the spokes with the angle grinder, then degreased the hub and speedo drive (I’ve two of those, one was immaculate and seized, the other filthy, full of grease and working just fine), and repainted with Simonize Satin Black.
The back mudguard isn’t perfect, the chrome is a little worn, but very original with the plastic sleeves over the cable holders. I’ve decided to use it as is, so spent some time polishing. It’s the US short version, I don’t really like the long UK ones.
Today I’m going to try and get a handle on what I’ve not got. Fasteners are thin on the ground, I have loads of generic ones I took of the CB750 somewhere, with alphabet soup on the heads, but I didn’t use them for a reason.
Good to see you're doing a rebuild thread on here too, who knows it may even sway some towards a liking for Zeds? ;D
The short rear mudguard is the correct one for your Z1A - the long rear is the UK spec and is a rare thing, as are the indicator ears on the grab rail. ;)
Post by: MrDavo on August 03, 2020, 03:58:47 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/7ZCrMMs6/IMG_4624.jpg)
Next tog up to use the anglegrinder. Old ski goggles, CCR hat and headphones. Apparently, this self photography malarkey is a thing these days.
(https://i.postimg.cc/9Qv5xRKB/IMG_4625.jpg)
And liberate the hub from the wheel. The tyre underneath is a Dunlop KR76 racing triangular, kept as a souvenir, as fitted to my first classic racer. The brutal profile alarms me to look at it now, no namby pamby 'I'll just lean it over a little' with those, it was bolt upright on a knife edge or all the way over with sparks coming from the exhaust grounding, no in between. :shock:
(https://i.postimg.cc/bNsBKYQV/IMG_4628.jpg)
Finally I masked the hub to give it some satin black. Who knew you could bend masking tape? Its a roll of genuine Duck brand tape, but it bent better than I expected, saving a lot of time. There were two speedo drives, a pristine one that was seized, and a tatty one full of grease that was just fine.
(https://i.postimg.cc/RFLkVPFP/IMG_4630.jpg)
Painting the hub was premature, as I then realised that the threads in the bolt holes for the l/h disc were mostly bolloxed. while the hub is separate seems the best time to get this sorted out. The other side the holes are pristine, because the bike has previously been single disc, I've two sets of calipers and discs so I'm going double, because slowing down can be a good thing sometimes. No master cylinder so I can make sure I get the right one for this. Ive two of the chrome wheel trims spare if anyone needs one.
I've had a quote from an auto engineering firm in Inverness to fit six Wurth Timeserts for £150 plus VAT, I intend to get the best job possible as brakes that come loose are not an option. That does seem a lot though, so I'll keep looking around. Is there anything I need to know about the pitch of the threads, or are they just standard Metric?
Last night I printed out the frame pages from the parts list, and ordered all the parts I need to fasten the engine in the frame. However I'm stuck for one of the engine plates, I think its the lower one. The one I have I think is the front, slightly larger with more socially distanced holes, can anyone confirm this from the photo below? If anyone has the plate I need, get in touch, as the only one I've found so far is in Ohio, and its a 3 week wait to get it, longer if ParcelFarce play silly beggars with the VAT + collection fee etc. Z-Power only do sets, and won't break them.
(https://i.postimg.cc/rm58GCpW/IMG_4631.jpg)
Finally, this picture is shamelessly half inched from an Ebay ad, but as its the same year, model, specification, colour, and has double discs, is exactly what I'm going for. I may print a copy and stick it on the garage wall for inspiration.
(https://i.postimg.cc/PJx92TGz/s-l16007.jpg)
Post by: Bryanj on August 03, 2020, 09:31:29 PM
Its a helluva long time ago since i removed a Kawasaki disc but from memory threads are standard but hex size may be odd like Honda using 12mm head where most use 13mm
Post by: MrDavo on August 03, 2020, 10:02:01 PM
I think I’m going to send the hub off tomorrow, so the engineering firm can get it right the first time rather than beggaring up my hub while learning on the job. I’m afraid I have the same approach to spray painting and welding- I understand the basics but due to inexperience I reckon it may be better to pay a professional to do it right first time rather than the very real risk of suffering an expensive lesson.
Post by: MrDavo on August 05, 2020, 12:54:18 PM
I've told the postie that I'm building a bike by post, he thinks I'll have it done in no time at this rate.
If anyone has one, I'm desperately seeking the lower triangular engine mounting plate, it seems to be AWOL, and the nearest available one, other than buying a complete set from Z-Power, is in Ohio.
Post by: Spitfire on August 05, 2020, 07:44:05 PM
Cheers
Dennis
Post by: MrDavo on August 05, 2020, 11:10:21 PM
ETA: That was quick, I just answered the door to the postie, today I got the manual and a huge box from M&P, containing a lot of packaging and a small box of nuts bolts and washers I bought as backup, for where NOS Kawasaki ones won’t be seen anyway. The book is pure Z1 porn, Dennis, I’m off for a browse.
Post by: MrDavo on August 10, 2020, 02:55:25 PM
The Hub came back from Inverness, the Timeserts were done the same day, and the box Fedexed back to me. Today I put new bearings in, and now it is off to Hagon's back in Essex where I bought the bike, for building into a new rim, with the spoke set I bought from France, so the front wheel is getting some serious mileage in even if I'm not.
(https://i.postimg.cc/NjF7kbmS/IMG-4637.jpg)
It was too hot to work in the garage, so ever with an eye for a classy location, I set up in the sun next to the wheelie bins to refurb the clocks. they live in the cushion cover shown, for protection.
(https://i.postimg.cc/XYPKHFgJ/IMG-4636.jpg)
I fitted a new sub loom and idiot lights, and changed the ignition switch, so I have a key that works. I also touched up a couple of minor scrapes.
(https://i.postimg.cc/RVXLt26w/IMG-4641.jpg)
Sunday I got the frame out in the sun, and loose fitted all the hardware necessary to get the engine in, less the missing lower mount. I still haven't sourced one in the UK, so the one for sale in Ohio will probably be ordered this week. There was a choice of a chrome spacer bobbin or a nickel plated one, so I went for the stock look over bling. The clipboard has a copy of the relevant parts book page as a checklist.
(https://i.postimg.cc/GpsFZ2Mj/IMG-4642.jpg)
There was no centre stand with the kit of parts I bought, after looking on eBay I realised there wasn't a lot of difference in price between a tatty old one and a brand new DoReMi stand, if you could find one. I tracked one down on German eBay, a quality bit of kit, it went straight on, no hassle.
(https://i.postimg.cc/sDVJv3XV/IMG-4644.jpg)
This morning my glamorous assistants showed up to help me get the motor in. Brains on the left (engineer), brawn on the right (6'7"). We tried the conventional way lifting it in, but after getting it well and truly stuck, the engineer suggested we should be lifting the lightest part, so we lowered the frame over the engine. A bit of a faff, but it worked.
WARNING: You know the two 12mm engine mounting bolts that go into the tear shaped special nuts underneath? The parts book has them transposed - if we hadn't stopped to check after trying to fit a long bolt into a short hole, we could have punched through the crankcase!
(https://i.postimg.cc/qRs8vFHh/IMG-4647.jpg)
Finally, with the engine in I get to tear off all the bubble wrap and tape, and see the freshly painted frame in all its glory. If you worry about the plastic crate being up to the job of supporting the weight, I rebuilt my Harley motor with the bike sat on that box!
(https://i.postimg.cc/NMq6YcSv/IMG-4648.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/NG84sKQJ/IMG-4650.jpg)
Post by: royhall on August 10, 2020, 03:07:14 PM
Post by: SteveD CB500K0 on August 10, 2020, 03:24:43 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: MrDavo on August 17, 2020, 06:12:18 PM
First job was the bottom yoke, on the first day I'd made a bit of a Horlicks of the unrestored one that came with the bike, failing to get the steering lock out, butchering the retaining screw with a drill, then cutting into the stem while removing the original headrace bearing, so not a good start. I decided to make an offer on another at D&K, which already had the steering lock removed, plus a hole for the steering damper, which I've got. The stem bolts are horrible, but going to the chromers, with some other parts, once I've dremmeled the manufacturer's marks off them. Here it is, freshly painted, with new lock and taper roller bearing.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Fs60DYSD/IMG-4689.jpg)
Next, fitted on the bike with the top yoke and blingy mounting hardware.
(https://i.postimg.cc/g0F8b1Nh/IMG-4691.jpg)
I then decided I was going to fit the forks and headlamp brackets. I know from experience that all the time goes into the fiddly bits, but this looks like real progress. Unfortunately the forks didn't want to fit, I put the yoke over the centre stem, I could then fit one leg or the other but not both at the same time!
Starting to wonder if something was bent, or not actually off a Z1 after all - then I remembered an old IT saying - 'If all else fails, read the instructions'. Luckily I had these, Dennis (aka Spitfire) was kind enough to give me a genuine Z1 workshop manual that was hiding away in his attic.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Hk7XKT4H/IMG-4693.jpg)
The manual said to get the fork tubes so they were sticking out above the headlamp brackets by 30mm, lower the top yoke over them, then persuade the yoke over the steering stem. It wasn't easy but did work. Putting the bars on gave me leverage to wiggle, and looks good. Then I went to whole hog and fitted the clocks.
(https://i.postimg.cc/RCX7JsZr/IMG-4702.jpg)
I'd have put the mudguard on too if I had the fastners, but I didn't. I did find a fitting kit for the battery box and seat latch, so I fitted them instead. Also I fitted a new set of inlet stubs, with new stainless screws, and the kickstart, which is pattern. I had an original one, which I was going to get rechromed, but on closer inspection, the splines were banjaxed.
(https://i.postimg.cc/PJ31GxRf/IMG-4701.jpg)
I played with some electrics for a while, took photos so I could ask for help on the forum, and went inside to watch the F1 and order some fastners.
Post by: Spitfire on August 17, 2020, 07:21:45 PM
Cheers
Dennis
Post by: MrDavo on August 24, 2020, 03:18:42 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/43CBBHFC/IMG-4730.jpg)
I now had all the hardware necessary to fit the swinging arm, apart from the endless O Ring chain which I ordered from Germany. That arrived this morning, so maybe next weekend. Not having the special tool to hold the sprocket still, I have no idea of how I'm going to hold the sprocket still while I tighten the nut. I can use the back brake, but that involves having a back wheel, brake and torque arm, which is off to the chromers.
Also newly fitted is the airbox, oil tank and starter motor. Someone suggested that if I am to run the chain oiler 'dry' I need to remove the driving pin from the gearbox output shaft - well although I got the tank and pump with the bike, as far as I can see there is no pin there, so maybe it's just as well I chose to run an O ring chain.
I followed the measurements on the service bulletin on fitting an O ring chain, so I got a Z1B sprocket, the spacer for the rear sprocket, and ground 4mm off the lower bracket mount and bolt:
(https://i.postimg.cc/kX414mtH/IMG-4721.jpg)
That refitted I am ready for the swinging arm. However without the chain my attention wandered to the front end, and I fitted the front mudguard.
(https://i.postimg.cc/26rTfRD2/IMG-4728.jpg)
Then the wring loom went on, I think I have the routing right to the right hand side of the headstock, please tell me if you know otherwise. That got plugged into the orange socket, and the turn signal flasher, at the front I attached it to the clocks and ignition switch plugs.
(https://i.postimg.cc/9QwLdYbt/IMG-4732.jpg)
It all looks very Z1 from the front, I'd know those skinny forks and streamlined clocks anywhere.
(https://i.postimg.cc/SNvZYv6x/IMG-4733.jpg)
Finally I got curious about what would be left over for the lights and flasher once the switches got plugged in, so I fitted those. They are replicas, I think, but brand new. I think there must be a sub harness for the headlamp I haven't got.
(https://i.postimg.cc/W4MSKpQd/IMG-4735.jpg)
I'm going to order the correct cable ties for the bars, as they do make a difference in my eyes. I'm just glad I don't have to start threading wires through the handlebars like you do on a Honda, although the result is so much neater.
Next I will be doing that swinging arm, also I may fit the new points plate and see if I can time the ignition. One quick question - which way does the lead from the points go to get to the coils? Photos I've looked at don't seem to show the lead going the obvious route, up the offside down tube, unless people are good at hiding it, does it go all the way around the rear of the engine and next to the main loom, or what?
Post by: MrDavo on August 26, 2020, 12:15:53 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/FsdwWdQ9/IMG-4748.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/WbBCQN20/IMG-4747.jpg)
Post by: MrDavo on September 01, 2020, 12:46:34 PM
I was concerned about the carbs getting damaged, despite being wrapped in a towel, and decided that the safest place for them was on the bike, now I had all the manifolds and clips to mount them. Someone did a lovely job with them, they have been vapour blasted (or similar) and rebuilt with all new fastners and fittings. The slides look like new, or maybe they've just never been scratched by dust and dirt. I won't know until I have a running bike how well they have been set up, but Roger at Road and Race in Hyde has agreed to synch the carbs and strobe the timing on his diagnostic rig when it's all finished.
I had problems pushing them into the new carb rubbers, I knew I could see too much of the manifold for things to be right, and nothing says 'air leak' like permanently bluing a very expensive set of new exhausts. I took them off again, smeared some liquid soap inside the rubbers and had another go, they suddenly went on properly with a 'pop'. Although I was very pleased to get a genuine original airbox with the bike, I also remembered why in the restorations I have done in the past, every single piece of plastic or rubber tends to get replaced, because it has turned to stone over the decades. One of the inlets from the airbox is only just over the lip of the carb intake, but I think when the wife goes back to work after furlough, her professional grade hair dryer may get borrowed for a while...
I can't find a plastic 'CHOKE' lever anywhere in the world, as they apparently don't exist, so I followed advice from the forum and got a Yamaha one that looks better than nothing.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Y2Qhv9LD/IMG-4753.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/nrfrd8g1/IMG-4755.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/ZRd0FY7R/IMG-4756.jpg)
This morning a pair of new BT46's arrived after I saw a very good deal on a pair the right size on eBay. Hagon have finished the front wheel so the tyre will go on when it gets back to me. I have ordered disc bolts and tabs, the twin discs will go on after I've mounted the tyre.
Post by: MrDavo on September 07, 2020, 03:19:00 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/bwYYFn0D/IMG_4766.jpg)
Next was to fit the front discs. I knew I had a problem when I got the disc mounting bolts from Z-Power and noticed the label mentioned a special 1.0mm thread. While my hub in the past has had just a single disc, and so virgin threads on the offside, the threads in the nearside I could see were banjaxed, so at some expense I got Timeserts fitted in all 6 holes. Neither I or the shop that fitted them knew anything about a special thread, I doubt they do Timeserts in non standard threads anyway. Luckily Dave Marsden was a star, a quick exchange of emails and he had 6 suitable replacement bolts in the post to me.
Here we are, tyre on and discs fitted, this was all going too well. I'm not so keen on drilled discs, it all looks a bit cafe racer to me, but for now it is what it is.
(https://i.postimg.cc/L8y4dsvy/IMG_4767.jpg)
Front wheel fitted in to forks, it all looks good but there is a mystery gap between axle spacer and fork. I will try putting in the lower yoke bolts, which are taken out ready for chroming, and see if it makes a difference.
(https://i.postimg.cc/g0nzGPTG/IMG_4768.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/9FYFpb9H/IMG_4769.jpg)
Post by: K2-K6 on September 07, 2020, 05:50:59 PM
Try loosening the triple clamps and rotating each stanchion at a time to see if they are completely true, or the gap varies as you rotate.
Post by: royhall on September 07, 2020, 05:55:01 PM
Post by: MrDavo on September 07, 2020, 06:58:50 PM
Hopefully its as simple as that, and not bent bits. :)
Post by: Lobo on September 07, 2020, 09:57:07 PM
Post by: Andrew-S on September 07, 2020, 10:08:49 PM
Wow - what a lovely project. Forgive my ignorance..... but what is the fluid bottle (?) mid-frame?
That's the chain oil tank and an original is a very a rare thing, but a pain in the arse as just like the early CB750's it coated the rear wheel in engine oil. Kawasaki deleted it from 1975 on the Z1B.
Post by: MrDavo on September 08, 2020, 07:23:34 AM
I doubt I’m going to use it, for the reasons Andrew mentions, plus I’m using an (endless) o ring chain, but I also have the equally rare pump for the chain oiler system. Driven by a pin in the output shaft, it goes behind the small sub cover built into the ‘mission cover’ as the Japanese call it. The Honda system, that caught a bit of engine oil in a tiny ‘tray’ and flung it out of a hole in the output shaft was so much simpler, on my CB750K1 I didn’t use that either, I had an X ring chain.
Post by: Lobo on September 08, 2020, 10:48:36 AM
Post by: MrDavo on September 08, 2020, 02:28:01 PM
I don't think the chains were known for breaking, although there is a 'just in case' piece of boiler plate that fits outboard of the gearbox sprocket, but until the O ring option was introduced later, Z1s had a reputation for getting through them (as well as rear tyres) at a rate of knots.
There is a sticker which explains they will let you have one free chain if it needs replacing under warranty.
(https://www.johnnysvintagemotorcycle.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/10047_Z1_warranty_chain_sticker.jpg)
Post by: AshimotoK0 on September 08, 2020, 03:14:47 PM
Month date coded Takasago wheel rims ... aaaagh!!!! ;D
Post by: MrDavo on September 08, 2020, 03:50:06 PM
Month date coded Takasago wheel rims ... aaaagh!!!! ;D
I'm glad you're enjoying it Ash. For the really anal there are month and year codes stamped on the rims, handlebar switches, discs, swinging arm and torque arm (to my knowledge, there may be more!), and even more scary there are people who care! The bikes that are really top dollar, and win prizes at shows are the ones where these all match.
I'm not going to use the front rim, I'm quite happy with the new Hagon replica, (typically the offer to swap my spare front wheel for a rim from the right month as per the swinging arm came after I'd sent the hub away to have the wheel built) but when I come to sell it I'll include it - it will make a difference to someone who can be a***d to take off a perfectly good new rim, rechrome the Takasago and rebuild the wheel again. That's not me though, I do have a life. :) I will keep an eye out for the right rear rim though, but you could wait a lifetime.
Anyone pointing out my discs and torque arm (If you can be bothered to lie under the bike to see it) are 'wrong' will be poked in the eye and told to feck right off.
Here is the chain oiler pump, a little gem of a thing, its made by Mikuni. There is a control at the right where you can turn it up and down, depending on how much mess you want to make. Oil comes in via a banjo attached to the threaded boss on top, and leaves via a rotating shaft at the rear, which plugs into the end of the gearbox output shaft. Used ones are £150 a pop on Ebay, plus P&P from the US.
(https://i.postimg.cc/wMXvcP4m/s-l500.jpg)
Post by: royhall on September 08, 2020, 04:34:48 PM
Post by: MrDavo on September 10, 2020, 12:51:22 PM
I may have found the cause of my spindle problem, Roy suggested the bottom yoke as a likely culprit, and I think he may be right.
Having lined and tightened everything up as best as I could,I took my measuring stick and put it across the forks at the top, so the blades of the vernier just touched the fork tubes just under the yoke.
(https://i.postimg.cc/d3grGFgj/IMG-4780.jpg)
Then I slid the vernier, without adjusting it, down to just above the oil seal... and there's a gap!
(https://i.postimg.cc/90Dy40gf/IMG-4781.jpg)
I cant measure it, as the vernier is at the extreme of its travel, but clearly the fork tubes aren't parallel. Obviously by the time you get to the bottom of the fork leg, the gap is much bigger. I have ruled out bent stanchions bu loosening the tubes and turning them, nothing happened. Assuming the top yoke is correct (my only evidence is that it came with the bike, and the clocks fit straight on) the culprit has to be the bottom yoke I think.
Post by: MrDavo on September 14, 2020, 01:24:57 PM
Putting a straight edge along the bottom of the yoke that came off, the cause of all my problems became obvious, I really should have tried this before I fitted it to the bike. :roll:
(https://i.postimg.cc/6qqx1vRC/IMG-4784.jpg)
Front end all put back together I might have a go at building the brake calipers next. I need all the seals and pistons, I've seen full sets advertised on eBay. Brake pads seem hard to find (out of stock at places like Z Power), surprising as they are something that wears out.
Post by: AshimotoK0 on September 14, 2020, 03:31:31 PM
Anyone follow up on the two 1973's this guy mentioned? (and before anyone asks ... NO! I was not interested in buying, just thought it a good lead for someone and the bike he sold here looked genuine...no idea if it was good price though ;) )
.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KAWASAKI-Z1A-1974-Z1-Z1B-Z900/174332327500?hash=item289704364c:g:WYQAAOSwK2Re-dmR
Here is what the seller said: - "I also have the following which could be up for Sale 1972 h1b 500 resto , 1972 s2 350cc ready to go, March 1973 Z1 Resto, April 1973 Z1 light Resto, 1970 cs3 Yamaha & 1969 YAS1 Yamaha. "
Post by: MrDavo on September 14, 2020, 06:47:50 PM
I had a go on one once, before I knew what a power band was. Wide open throttle, it was gutless. Suddenly I was doing my first proper wheelie, which nearly turned into a backflip. ::) ::) ::)
Post by: SteveD CB500K0 on September 14, 2020, 06:59:08 PM
You obviously weren’t riding it properly
A guy in the bike club at Uni had one (all the engineering students had SOHC fours).
He never came out on our runs as he claimed 14mpg and couldn’t afford the fuel.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Spitfire on September 15, 2020, 05:26:55 PM
Cheers
Dennis
Post by: MrDavo on September 28, 2020, 01:14:09 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/hGJ4CXWk/IMG-4789.jpg)
A trail build of one of the calipers, with new pads was too tight to fit on the disc on the side for the extra disc. A bit of head scratching made me realise I could get a bit more of a gap if I removed the paint from the mounting face for the inboard pad as the paint was quite thick. I also had to get paint out of the sliding bushes as they were tight. The calipers now fit over the discs, but only just.
(https://i.postimg.cc/qRyJTW7Q/IMG-4790.jpg)
Mounted on the bike, the wheel turns but they feel a little draggy. I don't see how I can possibly get more clearance, the pistons are pushed right back and the inner pad mounts now are paint free, I can only hope they will be free once they have worn in a little, but don't turn the discs blue first!
(https://i.postimg.cc/nL6FNnnC/IMG_4800.jpg)
Before I fit the new four way splitter, I had to address the steering lock screw, I had to drill the old one out. here I am cutting a new thread in the hole, furtunately I hadn't used too big a drill. That all worked, I will fit the hoses and try bleeding the brakes once I get a new flexible hose to replace one that came with the bike and had the wrong fitting.
(https://i.postimg.cc/gjpYk4Xp/IMG-4801.jpg)
I'm starting at the front and working my way back, next I have to put some oil in the forks and fit the indicators and headlamp, to see what's what, and work out what parts I haven't got yet.
Post by: taysidedragon on September 28, 2020, 03:44:15 PM
Easy for me to say when sitting in front of the tv! 😉
Post by: MrDavo on September 28, 2020, 05:08:44 PM
When I tried the other set of bottom yokes to see if the front end really was on the p*ss, I didn't have any metric taps, I've since borrowed a set from a mountain biker mate (who's never used them). At least I'd drilled out the old (stuck) screw in the vice rather than on the bike.
Anyway, to misquote the late great Eric Morecambe, I'm doing all the right jobs, but not necessarily in the right order.... :)
Post by: K2-K6 on September 28, 2020, 05:38:40 PM
Will influence just enough to prevent initial heat problems if they are definitely touching all the time.
Post by: MrDavo on September 28, 2020, 07:21:10 PM
All the double sided tape is currently stuck on the corners of our furniture to ward off kitten attacks but I can get some more. I knew I couldn’t just take a file to my carefully finished brake pads, this approach makes a lot more sense.
Post by: Green1 on September 28, 2020, 11:11:02 PM
When I get home from work my dad has been putting the magic picture box on and watching CHiPs almost every day.
Post by: MrDavo on September 29, 2020, 06:50:00 PM
(https://motopixel.org/media/__sized__/images/chips-kawasaki-kz-900-p-101-crop-c0-5__0-5-700x394-70.jpg)
Apparently in one episode of CHiPs there's a bandit robbing motorists on a Triumph T140V, they just had to follow him until it broke down.
The sun was out again this afternoon, so I took to the garden to shave a bit off my pads. It took me an age to remove just 0.1mm from each pad on the offside, which was the draggy one. It does turn more freely now, so worthwhile, even if I do get a hard to explain case of RSI in my wrist.... :oops:
(https://i.postimg.cc/rm8dWLQP/IMG-4823.jpg)
Post by: kevski on September 29, 2020, 06:57:06 PM
Post by: K2-K6 on September 29, 2020, 07:34:47 PM
At least you've got just a little more leeway for the pads to fit though.
Post by: MCTID on September 29, 2020, 08:31:45 PM
Post by: MrDavo on October 05, 2020, 03:05:33 PM
First job, once all the brake system was installed was to try and bleed it. All went smoothly, apart from a leak where the hose from the master cylinder meets the splitter block. Tightening the union bolt didn't fix it, what did was moving the cylinder inboard just a bit, so there was no pull on the hose, preventing it from seating square. This is the sort of drama that I'd much rather have now rather than when the bike is finished, imagine getting drops of brake fluid on my freshly painted tank! :eek
(https://i.postimg.cc/L8cQB2tk/IMG-4828.jpg)
Next job was to fit the clutch lever, you'd think it would be straightforward, but rather than have a split clamp like the brake lever, there's just one bolt and it slips over the bar end. All fine and dandy unless you already put the grip on. This was a beggar to get off again, though I'd want the grips to be a tight fit, having one pop off half way round a bend would not be a good thing. I notice the bars have plastic plugs in the end, when I was classic racing these were compulsory, so no one got hole punched by a handlebar end in an accident. While I was at it I fitted the front indicators and headlamp shell. Other than the obvious ones for the lights and indicators it is not clear what wires need to go in the shell. There is a large round hole in the base, but also a 'losenge' shaped hole above it. I'm not sure what should go where and haven't found a clear photo, can anyone advise?
(https://i.postimg.cc/mgz6HtH2/IMG-4827.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/ZKDMnr0M/IMG-4826.jpg)
Although the bike came with the original US market Stanley LHD headlamp, I've decided not to use it, and ordered a right hand drive Lucas H4 halogen one instead, safety trumping originality.
Post by: MrDavo on October 12, 2020, 12:46:02 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/NfmdwGPy/IMG-4840.jpg)
I was going to try wiring up the lights and indicators, even considering pinching the battery from my CL450 so I could actually have power in the electrics for the first time. Than I learned why buying the cheapest headlamp connector block on eBay isn't necessarily a wise move, as the ceramic block fell to bits when I pulled it off the old headlamp bulb after I'd tried it. I've ordered a plastic one now, it should be more durable, and at least i didn't have it fail out on the road somewhere.
Anyway, next up I'm considering fitting the coils, horn, throttle cables etc, which will restrict the room around the cam cover. However when I come to ignition timing. starter motor testing etc, the engine is going to be turned over, and having been rebuilt an unknown time ago, it was concerning me that everything might well be bone dry in there. I'd already squirted some oil into the bores (pistons and valves are all new, looking in the plug hole with a torch), but I was concerned about the cams. deciding it was now or never, I whipped the cam cover off. As expected all was dry in there, but no rust, and the cam lobes are all in good shape.
(https://i.postimg.cc/RC3PXL7L/IMG-4841.jpg)
I put a smear of Redline Assembly Lube on the cam lobes, and squirted some oil around the cam bearings, although how much ever gets in the bearing is doubtful until I have oil pressure one day. At least now I'll worry less when I turn her over, I did use the kickstart to get lube all round the cams, everything moved freely, and there was compression with the plugs in.
(https://i.postimg.cc/ryvfbRgX/IMG-4843.jpg)
Post by: Andrew-S on October 12, 2020, 01:13:57 PM
Cheers, Andrew
Post by: MrDavo on October 19, 2020, 12:57:02 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/FHm1761T/IMG-4870.jpg)
Now I can open the throttle i have a slight problem with #1 carb. As it comes off its stop there is a noticeable 'click'. Removing the polished top and looking down at the slide I can't see anything fouling, but its not right. Something is catching, either the opening mechanism, the slide or possibly a bent or displaced needle.I am loathe to take the carbs off again to dismantle the carb body, but I may have to if I cant fix it as it is. I may be able to ignore it, but if its not right, now is the time to sort the problem out. Any suggestions?
Post by: MrDavo on November 09, 2020, 01:23:27 PM
Yesterday I fitted some new odds and ends that arrived from Z Power, like the seat latch and the bracket for the brake light failure switch. I then started on the alternator, the loom is being replaced. Looking at the connections sealed in epoxy I thought this was factory...
(https://i.postimg.cc/wxWnkVH5/IMG-5036.jpg)
But when I had dremelled away the epoxy I don't think so!
(https://i.postimg.cc/fTJpq9TG/IMG_5039.jpg)
My replacement loom has three yellow wires, but from what I can glean from the web it doesn't matter which coils go to which coloured wire. Unfortunately I discovered at this point that my cheap eBay soldering iron has packed up, so I have ordered another one. Each wire comes with a metal sleeve and some heatshrink, I assume I solder both ends of each wire into the sleeve.
(https://i.postimg.cc/qMSYPvNz/IMG-5040.jpg)
I then had a go at installing the NOS points plate, however I found that it doesn't fit over the cam on the advance retard! Closer inspection and a check on the net reveals that it is in fact the trigger rotor for an electronic ignition which I haven't got. I need a points cam, unfortunately the advance retard and its cam is all one part, so I need to either find a points cam or complete A/R unit. :( Pm me if you have one!
Post by: MrDavo on November 11, 2020, 12:45:45 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/zByTzHvQ/IMG-5042.jpg)
As I'm working from the front of the bike to the back (mainly because I won't be able to get past in the garage once the back wheel is in), these parts have been rewrapped and stashed in the attic, with the paint set and rear wheel. One day i hope to have an exhaust system to squirrel away up there too! No sign yet though.
I was confused to get a Paypal email to say I'd paid Dave Marsden, mainly as I already received the chainguard etc that I ordered from Z Power last week. eventually I realised that my used advance retard unit is on its way, and that the eBay seller was in fact Dave. He also sent me a reduced 'buy it now' offer, completely unprompted - good man!
Post by: kevski on November 12, 2020, 08:24:47 AM
Post by: AshimotoK0 on November 12, 2020, 04:28:34 PM
A courier turned up this morning - only a week after I sent it to them, my chroming is back from Agbrigg in Leeds! Excellent service and excellent finish - shiny shiny things! The original chrome on the parts was still there when I first got them, but had been polished away over the years to reveal the nickel beneath. Now they look as good as new.
Dave ... any chance you can share any chroming prices with us please. I was chatting to the Agbrigg owner at Rufforth Autojumble in August. He reckons he is one of only a few chromers now, that will take on rechroming exhausts (He quoted me £350/side for a CB250 exhaust), without actually seeing it). I did have some wheels rims done by an outfit close to them in Leeds .. The chroming was OK but still the odd tiny pit left .. turns out that Agbrigg do the chroming for them but not the prep. Chroming is a real lottery and I find a lot of places don't do their own chroming, they are just stripping and polishing outfits.
I have never used Prestige in Mexborough but always hear good reports.. They do silencers but only if they drain liquid very quickly. Unfortunately, a lot of silencers have baffles that are not removable and therefore take a while to drain liquid.
For Honda-4 stators I have some white, glass woven insulation, wire that's the correct conductor gauge. I dye it yellow with a Dylon pen and then coat that with silicone conformal coating spray. It's the closest I can get to the original stator wire type.
Post by: MrDavo on November 12, 2020, 05:14:05 PM
That is the ultimate in attention to detail, Ash, I can't imagine even the pickiest concourse judge (or potential buyer) asking for the stator cover to be removed to check the connections look factory, but hey, you know its right and that's what matters! I will try a little solder and possibly a bit of a crimp too, trial and error I guess. I am more concerned about the connection of the heavy gauge copper coil wire to the sleeve than the cable to the rectifier etc. There is a small tag in the sleeve which I will use, not sure for which wire yet. My 2 new soldering irons (one large, one small) turned up today so I will have a go at the weekend.
The chroming was £100 plus £10 P&P for the three pieces, I got a quote by email from them before I sent the parts, so there were no unpleasant surprises after the event. As you say, like paint, it's all in the preparation. Agbrigg had been recommended to me by the Z1 Owners club when I was going to get my original front wheel rim rechromed, before someone on that forum saved me wasting a lot of money by pointing out that the Z900 A4 Takasago rim which I had, had the wrong spoke angles for a Z1, as well as (horror of horrors) the wrong date code. As mentioned before Kawasaki code by year and month, I am swapping my A4 spare wheel for a rim which is April 74 same as the code on the swinging arm, but I doubt I'll ever bother to ditch the brand new plain rim I now have fitted to get it 100%, my OCD isn't strong enough to make that necessary. I'll still have the correct rim stashed away though in case the next owner can be bothered. same with the rear, if I ever see the right date coded rim (a long shot) I'll probably feel compelled to buy it. You'd probably best never buy a Z1 Ash, you'd end up chasing the right codes on the switches, torque arm and front disc too! (there may be others as well) And I thought Honda people were being anal about correct DID rim stamps!
Post by: royhall on November 12, 2020, 05:22:28 PM
Post by: AshimotoK0 on November 12, 2020, 07:41:12 PM
Thing about the stator and field coils Dave, at least on Honda 750's, is that the wiring gets very hot in an oily environment. and glass fibre sleeving and cable is the correct stuff for the job and what Hitachi used originally. The way Hitachi soldered the wire to the stator magnet copper wire was with 'tubes' formed from wound tinned copper wire. About six turns wrapped around a 3mm former, from memory.
No I will never get a Z1 or any other bike for that matter .... my cupboard is full now ;D
Post by: MrDavo on November 16, 2020, 01:20:07 PM
I'd bought a cheap rev counter cable from eBay, its going back because it wont thread onto the tacho drive on the engine. Not sure if its faulty or just wrong, it seems a tad too small, anyway I can't start the thread. A real one isn't cheap but sometimes pattern parts can be dirt cheap for a good reason. Hopefully the vendors won't be dicks about returns, if not I can name and shame them.
Finally, how to fit a fuel cap. I've recorded the stages for posterity, in case anyone else finds it trickier than it looks. I dug the tank out from its box in the attic, Its not been tried on the bike before, and its as stable a place as any while I fitted the new cap. Firstly I put masking tape all round the filler, using craft knives and drill bits very close to my fresh paint, what could possible go wrong :shock: ? Next I cut some paint from around the hinge mounts so the cap and latch fitted over the hinge pins, I then measured the diameter of the roll pins, and used a drill bit that size to ream the paint out of the holes they go in.
There were no instructions with the cap, so I had to work out for myself how the latch works and what goes where. Here's the parts for the latch, I found the tip for using a strip of cardboard to keep the spring in the right place on a US KZ forum, you pull it out when you've finished.
(https://i.postimg.cc/59hP9Kkf/IMG-5060.jpg)
Then I assembled the latch using a smaller drill bit - before I tried that there was near disaster when the spring flew away into the crowded garage, after a long hunt I luckily found it, in completely the opposite direction from where I thought I'd heard it land. Once I had the parts in place the drill bit was drifted out with the pin....
(https://i.postimg.cc/RFqPhkBZ/IMG-5062.jpg)
Once the latch was in place and working properly, it was pretty much the same process with the cap hinge...
(https://i.postimg.cc/GtyqJv90/IMG-5064.jpg)
The finished result:
(https://i.postimg.cc/mrmXbbKn/IMG-5065.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/65CM8VDn/IMG-5056.jpg)
I couldn't resist putting on the side panels, just to see what it looked like. One of the badges has two pins broken, so I have ordered a replacement. Also, although seemingly OEM, the left hand panel may be from a Z1B, as there is no hole for the chain oiler dipstick. I'm not using that system anyway, but its a shame the tank had to go. Now I have a complete system (with pump) to either hoard or see what I can get for it.
(https://i.postimg.cc/MZMPSJ5s/IMG-5066.jpg)
Post by: Johnwebley on November 16, 2020, 06:48:16 PM
Enjoy the engineering.
I also watch Allan Millyard build his specials.hours of details on his YouTube channel.
I notice he only does small Hondas. But has done a 6 cylinder Z.
I guess it's because Kawasaki use a built up roller crank instead of the more modern plain bearing cranks in the sohc fours
Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk
Post by: robvangulik on November 16, 2020, 07:54:48 PM
Post by: Johnwebley on November 16, 2020, 09:06:34 PM
I know he did a V12 Kawasaki.
Double up the water cooled 6.
Have you got any pictures?
Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk
Post by: philward on November 16, 2020, 10:02:40 PM
(http://For Honda-4 stators I have some white, glass woven insulation, wire that's the correct conductor gauge. I dye it yellow with a Dylon pen and then coat that with silicone conformal coating spray. It's the closest I can get to the original stator wire type.)
That is the ultimate in attention to detail, Ash, I can't imagine even the pickiest concourse judge (or potential buyer) asking for the stator cover to be removed to check the connections look factory, but hey, you know its right and that's what matters! I will try a little solder and possibly a bit of a crimp too, trial and error I guess. I am more concerned about the connection of the heavy gauge copper coil wire to the sleeve than the cable to the rectifier etc. There is a small tag in the sleeve which I will use, not sure for which wire yet. My 2 new soldering irons (one large, one small) turned up today so I will have a go at the weekend.
The chroming was £100 plus £10 P&P for the three pieces, I got a quote by email from them before I sent the parts, so there were no unpleasant surprises after the event. As you say, like paint, it's all in the preparation. Agbrigg had been recommended to me by the Z1 Owners club when I was going to get my original front wheel rim rechromed, before someone on that forum saved me wasting a lot of money by pointing out that the Z900 A4 Takasago rim which I had, had the wrong spoke angles for a Z1, as well as (horror of horrors) the wrong date code. As mentioned before Kawasaki code by year and month, I am swapping my A4 spare wheel for a rim which is April 74 same as the code on the swinging arm, but I doubt I'll ever bother to ditch the brand new plain rim I now have fitted to get it 100%, my OCD isn't strong enough to make that necessary. I'll still have the correct rim stashed away though in case the next owner can be bothered. same with the rear, if I ever see the right date coded rim (a long shot) I'll probably feel compelled to buy it. You'd probably best never buy a Z1 Ash, you'd end up chasing the right codes on the switches, torque arm and front disc too! (there may be others as well) And I thought Honda people were being anal about correct DID rim stamps!
Just got a quote of them for a 500k2 rear light bracket and a grab rail and they've quoted me £105! Seems steep compared to your bits
Post by: robvangulik on November 16, 2020, 10:40:12 PM
Wow.dont remember that.You're right, it was another DIYer
I know he did a V12 Kawasaki.
Double up the water cooled 6.
Have you got any pictures?
Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk
(https://thekneeslider.com/images/2009/10/andreasv12.jpg)
Andreas Georgeades and his Honda CBX V12
Post by: AshimotoK0 on November 17, 2020, 08:25:45 AM
My first job this weekend was replacing the lead for the alternator coils. I failed miserably attempting to solder the little metal sleeves that came with the kit. Basically not enough room for the wire and solder inside the sleeve, and no way to get the tip of the soldering iron in there. I have soldered the copper stator wire to the harness wire, but I'm not happy with the result, especially considering the current that will go through these joints when charging. I'm considering unsoldering, and trying a crimp on the sleeves, as the wires only just fit, the connection should be tight, and better than my soldered effort. Which crimp toll and how tight (to grip the wire firmly but not distort the sleeve too much) will be trial and error. Any of you used a crimp?
Can you send some pics Dave and I may be able to help you. I wouldn't personally crimp to a stator copper wire. If the cable is like Honda cable (i.e. woven glass covered) .. I can send you some plus some good old fashioned lead/tin solder and suitable flux plus a few Hitachi type 'tubes' made of coiled tinned copper wire. I also have woven glass sleeving but it's white.
Post by: MrDavo on November 17, 2020, 12:25:47 PM
@ Phil, sorry your quote didn't work out, however I can only report what happened with me, I have no drum to bang for the guy. Maybe tail light brackets are tricky compared to the wide open spaces of torque arms and mudguards, I don't know.
@ Ash, thanks for the offer, I'll send you a PM.
Post by: philward on November 17, 2020, 08:40:00 PM
I think its either as you suggest (light brt tricky to prepare) or they incosistantly questimate - either way, I think I'll leavre it for now as chrome is acceptable just not mint like all the other new chrome parts will be - I'll have a think!
Post by: MrDavo on November 25, 2020, 12:57:56 PM
Just a quick update. I rebuilt #1 carb, using a new (and rare) emulsion tube and needle. That cured the 'hanging' problem. It also gave me an opportunity to bench synch the carbs as best I could. I couldn't find a 0.7mm drill or wire, so I have all 4 carbs just releasing (from the tiny cutout at the front of the slide) a 1mm drill at the same time. Once the bike is on the road one of its first trips will be for a professional carb synch and strobe. I also took the opportunity to paint the red infill 'ON' and arrow on the choke release lever. The carbs are now back on the bike, it was much easier to fit them second time round, as I now have a tube of red rubber grease which I bought to assemble the brake calipers.
I've taken the alternator cover off, and fitted a starter drive gear and spindle which I got from DK, the original was inexplicably AWOL. I'm not happy with my soldered joints between the alternator coils and the replacement cable to the regulator. Ashley is kindly sorting me out with some spring sleeves and lead based solder to do a better job, as its a high current join I want to do it as best as I can.
(https://i.postimg.cc/gJMkG2fn/IMG-5100.jpg)
I've bought a repro owners manual which one day will go on the tray in in the tail piece. As was pointed out the other day, back in the 70s the owners manual told you how to set the valves, these days it tells you not to drink the contents of the battery. ::) There is, however a list of 21 things to check for tightness daily, without fail, before riding, including the centre stand nuts! In the real world that would get you sacked from work for being late every day, I reckon that even in those days they were getting cagey about legal liability - if you hurt yourself because something important fell off, they would have the defence of 'well, we did tell you to check it was tight!'
Post by: MrDavo on November 30, 2020, 01:00:21 PM
I did refit the throttle cables, all now works as it should, and also a set of genuine HT cable clips, which tidied things up no end. Also it stops sparks and shocks from the HT leads, I once had a Triumph T110 that was a beggar for electrocuting my knees in the wet!
(https://i.postimg.cc/BbHGPhkr/IMG-5114.jpg)
Also I fitted the replacement advance retard unit I got from Dave Marsden, then finally bit the bullet and set the ignition timing. It was a pleasure to time a bike using brand new kit, usually there is at least one screw seized in place, often with a totally chewed up head, made from silver chocolate. Here I am using my multimeter, set to resistance, one probe to the points lead, the other to earth, looking for that moment where the points are just opening. You can see the timing mark on the A/R unit lined up with the pointer on the engine.
(https://i.postimg.cc/2SmChDz2/IMG_5116.jpg)
Post by: JamesH on December 02, 2020, 08:37:19 PM
Post by: MrDavo on December 03, 2020, 01:04:58 AM
Personally my favourite Kawasaki 900 colour schemes are the original 72 Z1 ‘Jaffa Cake’, like the one you restored, with the black engine, or the Z900 metallic version of British Racing Green with the gold pinstripes. Still what I’ve got isn’t half bad, and as a fan of period metal flake it goes well with my Candy Blue CL450 and Iris Blue Metallic 911, they really ‘pop’ in sunlight. The strip lights in the garage really don’t do them justice, all the more inspiration to get them out there and use them.
Post by: Andrew-S on December 05, 2020, 10:28:35 AM
Post by: sprinta on December 05, 2020, 04:04:14 PM
Looking great Dave and a credit to your hard work and perseverance - this might spur you on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoIsb9Ihzgs&ab_channel=KAPLANAMERICA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoIsb9Ihzgs&ab_channel=KAPLANAMERICA)
Shame about the handle bar grips though!
Post by: philward on December 05, 2020, 05:12:50 PM
Post by: MrDavo on December 07, 2020, 02:22:07 PM
The new heater is on the right of this picture, I fitted the replica chainguard that I got from Z Power along with the fitting kit. Also I later fitted the sidestand and tightened up the rear sprocket, I jammed the sprocket and chain up with a folded piece of denim. The original sidestand bolt polished up very nicely.
(https://i.postimg.cc/htxr0gmv/IMG-5120.jpg)
Post by: MrDavo on December 14, 2020, 01:36:15 PM
I restored and fitted the footrests (bought from EBay) and a new stud kit from Z Power, on the timing side, I can't finish the other side until the transmission cover is back on. The brake lever I had rechromed by Agriggs in Leeds. The footrest bracket had to come off again twice, once to get the brake lever on with its spring, and anther time once I realised that the rather Heath Robinson stop light rod goes behind the bracket. I also put the pillion pegs on, a replica kit from Z Power. Here's how it ended up:
(https://i.postimg.cc/50YZThVX/IMG-5121.jpg)
While I was digging the brake lever out of the attic, I also got tempted to get the seat and try it on for the first time. I haven't fitted the pins yet but this gives the general idea.
Its all starting to look a lot like a whole Z1 with some parts missing now, rather than just a kit of parts.
(https://i.postimg.cc/wvCSpwq0/IMG-5123.jpg)
Post by: philward on December 14, 2020, 10:34:45 PM
Post by: MrDavo on December 21, 2020, 12:51:16 PM
A couple of pieces came in the post today, a new N/S genuine footrest from Andrew, and the sprocket guard plate that I bought from eBay. Z Power will probably get these back in stock now, but hey ho.
Last week Ash kindly sent me a box with everything I need to solder on my alternator leads, including Hitachi solder coated springs for the join, proper lead solder and flux, 2 pack epoxy resin and glass fibre sleeving. I have done as neat a job as I can, he also sent instructions, but he'll be disappointed that I didn't colour the insulating sleeves yellow like OEM. However next time anyone else but me sees inside the alternator cover, I've either sold the bike or popped my clogs.
Here are the coil wires tinned with the lead solder,
(https://i.postimg.cc/02JT56D2/IMG-5129.jpg)
And soldered into the spring connectors.
(https://i.postimg.cc/wxPKd5tG/IMG-5130.jpg)
The joins were covered with 3 pieces of the glass fibre sleeving, and everything sealed up with epoxy. That's still drying at the moment, I'll leave it a few days before I put everything back on, I'll also apply some sealant around where the wires go through a rubber grommet to the outside of the engine.
Post by: AshimotoK0 on December 21, 2020, 08:53:10 PM
Post by: MrDavo on December 22, 2020, 12:26:12 AM
I can’t post photos from this, but I copied a photo of the real thing, and used a short wide piece of sleeving around the three wires to tie it to the stator core, and three bits of the thinner sheath to cover the soldered joints. These are the bits I have expoxied in to seal and immobilise them. The only problem I’ve had is the weave fraying where I cut it making the job a bit messy. Not sure if I needed a sharper knife.
Post by: Nurse Julie on December 22, 2020, 07:55:16 AM
Post by: MrDavo on December 22, 2020, 01:05:08 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/0y0FVnjM/IMG-5132.jpg)
I am enjoying the build, Julie, however most of the restoration had already been done for me, its mostly working out which bits I haven't got, finding them and assembly. The CL450 was more satisfying to do because it was a genuine barn find to put back on the road. Somehow it can be more rewarding to take parts which are old and faded and make them back like new again.
Post by: philward on December 22, 2020, 01:27:23 PM
Post by: royhall on December 22, 2020, 05:18:16 PM
Post by: MrDavo on December 22, 2020, 05:28:45 PM
I'll swap your Bomber for my CL450, as long as I can keep the CL's rotor and (working) starter clutch assembly!! ;D ;D
Post by: royhall on December 22, 2020, 05:37:28 PM
No thanks, I like projects with parts that fit. :)
I'll swap your Bomber for my CL450, as long as I can keep the CL's rotor and (working) starter clutch assembly!! ;D ;D
Bugger. Looks like no Z again.
Post by: mike the bike on December 22, 2020, 05:45:51 PM
Something to look forward to.
Post by: AshimotoK0 on December 22, 2020, 09:00:10 PM
On Honda 3 phase stators the wires are all yellow and the rotor field coil is white and green. I have a new set of Dye pens on my Christmas list.
Post by: AshimotoK0 on December 22, 2020, 09:11:08 PM
Post by: MrDavo on December 23, 2020, 10:16:19 AM
The Kawasaki forum posts don’t get as many responses, if I only posted there I might not bother to put as much time in hosting photos etc. There is a moderator who pops by with a ‘good job, keep it up’ post now and again if no one else bothers, to keep the ball rolling.
Like this forum for my Honda rebuilds, what is really worthwhile is seeking advice and sourcing parts from members. On Sunday I realised I don’t have the outer worm part for the clutch actuator, and the only ones for sale were in the USA and very expensive. I posted a wanted request on the Z1 forum that night, Monday morning I found a response. Deal struck, Paypal money sent, the part was on my Kitchen worktop Tuesday morning. :)
Post by: kevski on December 23, 2020, 08:35:47 PM
I’m glad you’re not to appalled by my untidy efforts Ash, however once I’d soldered the joints I was committed to using the sleeving that was on, even as it frayed.
The Kawasaki forum posts don’t get as many responses, if I only posted there I might not bother to put as much time in hosting photos etc. There is a moderator who pops by with a ‘good job, keep it up’ post now and again if no one else bothers, to keep the ball rolling.
Like this forum for my Honda rebuilds, what is really worthwhile is seeking advice and sourcing parts from members. On Sunday I realised I don’t have the outer worm part for the clutch actuator, and the only ones for sale were in the USA and very expensive. I posted a wanted request on the Z1 forum that night, Monday morning I found a response. Deal struck, Paypal money sent, the part was on my Kitchen worktop Tuesday morning. :)
Sadly Dave the Zed forum has been struggling for a few years now with a lot of topics not getting responses, been following your build on both sites though, glad and surprised the actuator got there so quick, not much in the Zed parts bin left now.
Post by: MrDavo on December 29, 2020, 04:07:36 PM
I did get the alternator coils installed into their cover, with some sealant where the wires leave the case, along with some of the oil in use, if you're not careful. I used a NOS set of screws, and a touch of Loctite.
(https://i.postimg.cc/pTDmsyjV/IMG-5138.jpg)
I then put some oil on the starter idler gear spindle and fitted the cover. Also while I was in that area, I fitted the sprocket guard, I also fitted the clutch actuator to the transmission cover, but I'm waiting for the spring to arrive (the one at the end of the clutch cable, not the season) before I can fit the cover. In the meantime I need to do some connector changing on my generator subloom before I can fit that cover anyway. The wire for the neutral switch has a loop (it needs a female bullet connector) and vice versa for the blue wire to the oil light - there is a female bullet, it needs a loop.
(https://i.postimg.cc/DZVWQ18Y/IMG-5139.jpg)
Post by: MrDavo on January 18, 2021, 01:04:01 PM
Instead I fitted the seat properly - previously it has just been plonked there in approximately the right place. Now it is fitted to its pins, and the seat prop is fitted and working. At last I can see how it fits with the tank.
(https://i.postimg.cc/4dLyqzpz/IMG-5144.jpg)
One issue I have is with the seat latch. The post fitted to the seat base is adjustable, but wherever I set it, the seat clicks shut OK, but you don't need to use the seat catch lever to open it again - a good tug and the seat pops open! Not how its meant to be and renders the seat and helmet locks useless. I'm going to take the post off the seat and watch closely as it latches - I'm not sure if my problem is the adjustment or the latch. There may even be a tad of adjustment for the whole mechanism, which bolts to the frame. The lever is replica, the catch plate is OEM - does this look right? Any advice or experience gratefully received.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Xqrqbpgt/IMG-5145.jpg)
Post by: MrDavo on January 24, 2021, 04:46:10 PM
I had a go with the seat catch again after reading your comments, and yes, it came down to the alignment of the latch mechanism. I could see the lock plate was a little cockeyed, so I loosened the bolts and got it straight.
(https://i.postimg.cc/9Fpgr0pK/IMG-5148.jpg)
Success! The seat now latches when you close it very time, and it only opens with the seat lever in the right position. I adjusted the seat post so the seat sits on its rubbers against the frame, rather than having all the weight on the post. Perfect!
(https://i.postimg.cc/Cxrvs294/IMG-5149.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/8zzKWGX5/IMG-5150.jpg)
The latch still needs to come off again, as it won't lock! Looking with a torch the pin from the lock is fouling the striker plate, I wonder if the pin will rotate so it doesn't foul, I need it apart to see what's going on.
Post by: MrDavo on February 02, 2021, 01:05:28 PM
I decided to wire up the oil pressure switch by making a short piece, using blue wire from my old lead, with a male bullet one end and a loop on the other. This worked well apart from accidental dropping the brass screw from the switch. Sod's law sent it to a tiny space behind the oil switch housing - being brass and non magnetic it suddenly became a huge time wasting problem to get it back. After poking around with fine screwdrivers and grease, then sleeping on the problem, I made a tool from lockwire to fish it out again. That's a few hours I'll never get back, but hey, all part of the challenge. I now need to take a loop from the end of the neutral switch lead and replace it with a female bullet to fit the later switch I've got fitted.
The main visible difference I made this week was to fit a PMC JIS pan head screw kit to the engine cases. Although actually better in every way, allen screws on old bikes just look so wrong to me when the intention is to make a bike at least look original without being too OCD. I noticed the allen screws on this engine the first time I saw an advert, at last I can look at the bike without it bugging me any more. So I don't have a nightmare in years to come with seized screws, like on my Harley, I squirted a load of WD40 into the plastic bag with the screws in before I started.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Rhkc0gmx/IMG-5152.jpg)
Post by: K2-K6 on February 02, 2021, 01:27:01 PM
I can't wait for the pipes, surely one of THE most iconic exhaust ever made.
Post by: Johnwebley on February 02, 2021, 01:34:30 PM
Very nice, and funny that the screws were O-so-complained about when contemporary (I've never viewed them that way) but as you indicate, such an integral part of that period in importance now.Purely as an aside.
I can't wait for the pipes, surely one of THE most iconic exhaust ever made.
Have a gander on YouTube for Allan Millyard converting his exhausts from 4 to 6 header pipes.
Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk
Post by: MrDavo on February 02, 2021, 02:31:14 PM
Now I have the correct screwdrivers and more of a clue it isn't a problem. I must have stripped quite a few threads by over tightening allen screws. I think part of the design of JIS deliberately stops you over-tightening by making the driver 'cam out', I noticed this weekend that I wasn't allowed to tighten the screws up that much even if I wanted to. As these screws all went into the crankcases, buggering up a thread was the last thing I wanted to do.
I've watched a couple of videos on Allan Millyard's 6, it takes a certain type of commitment to set about modifying a set of Zed pipes, especially now I know what they cost. His 5 cylinder two strokes are equally mental (they were mental enough as mere triples). When my pipes come the bike should still be sat on a plastic crate, so I can't fit them yet, but I'll check them very carefully for damage or mistakes. I agree about the pipes as an icon, again at the time most riders couldn't wait to get a lighter four into one, like fitting pods you wonder how may of them ever got the carburation right again. There's something about the slightly oval exit end of Z1 pipes that always reminded me of special lady parts, but that's probably just me, best not go there.......
Post by: K2-K6 on February 02, 2021, 03:15:43 PM
Post by: MrDavo on February 08, 2021, 12:01:34 PM
Anyway, with the pattern reflectors now shouting 'Knockoff!' at me every time I saw them, I ordered a genuine set from Z Power. Interestingly, one of the rears came in a Yamaha bag...
(https://i.postimg.cc/fyvSYnpD/IMG-5158.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/7P12F06d/IMG-5159.jpg)
Much better! It's only a small detail I know, but if I can spot pattern parts on a bike with just one glance, then I can safely assume that the bike is full of them. It's not the same as crawling around checking the date codes, that's a whole different level of anal.
The other job was to fit the grab rail. This came with the bike, and is either new pattern or OEM and rechromed, its hard to know which, even with John's book. I had been worried about the fit, as there seemed to be quite a gap between the lugs for the bolts through the frame and the frame itself. However once the bolts and shock top nuts were done up it all fit perfectly.
(https://i.postimg.cc/5NxCbyQ0/IMG-5162.jpg)
I may pop the 10mm frame bolts back out one at a time, as they are stainless going into steel, and I'd like to use some lube. ???
Post by: philward on February 08, 2021, 07:02:58 PM
Post by: Andrew-S on February 08, 2021, 10:33:07 PM
On the subject of the reflectors, I seem to remember the UK models (my Z1B anyway), didn't have reflector on the rear shocks and the front had chrome inserts instead of the reflectors. Is my memory correct?
Yes Phil, the US spec bikes had front a rear red reflectors - here's the UK Z1B:
Post by: philward on February 08, 2021, 10:50:43 PM
I remember the feeling riding that bike back from the dealers to Swindon - super smooth, super fast and never experienced so much attention from car drivers - wish I had it now.
Post by: MrDavo on February 08, 2021, 11:05:40 PM
There’s also some more shenanigans with lights (i.e. dip direction, deflection adjustment ) and reflectors. I’m sure there’s more if you dig in John Brookes’ book.
Post by: MrDavo on February 22, 2021, 03:11:20 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/yxHM7TFN/IMG-5170.jpg)
Now that's sorted I put the cover back on and concentrated on its neighbour, the transmission cover. Here i am ready to fit it, neutral and oil light connected, loom in its guide with the starter cable, and new clutch pushrod in place.
(https://i.postimg.cc/hv1Hv7r1/IMG_5171.jpg)
All fitted, with the clutch end play adjusted and the footrest fitted. The footrest was a ball ache, the pin didn't quite line up with the holes, I ground a tad off the inside end of the peg to make it line up, without thinking of the consequences, which was a droopy footrest! A penny washer got araldited where you can't see it, but with no more unsightly droopage. Also I replaced the side stand spring, which was a chunky replica, with the real Mcoy, much neater looking. Gear lever is a replica, before I tighten it up I want to dig out a suitable hex head screw rather than the allen screw supplied. What is an upset screw? Has someone been nasty to it? I think it means a flanged head but I'm not certain.
(https://i.postimg.cc/pVJ7DzfD/IMG_0160.jpg)
If you recall I started at the front and am working my way back, mainly beacuse its more logical than a scattergun approach, plus garage space is limited and there'll be a lot less of it once the back wheel goes in. Finally, with the clutch cable on, lubed and adjusted I declare the front end finished. Once I've done little bits like fuel pipes I'll be done all the way back to the swinging arm spindle, bar the exhausts, which are still on their way.
Here's a pilots eye view of the finished front end, well it would be the view if you were about to crash into my garage wall.....
(https://i.postimg.cc/QNgL0R3K/IMG_5173.jpg)
Post by: philward on February 22, 2021, 05:42:10 PM
Post by: kevski on February 22, 2021, 07:53:24 PM
Post by: MrDavo on February 26, 2021, 04:40:06 PM
A very nice DPD man called Johnathan turned up this morning, with a big box:
(https://i.postimg.cc/j2ZpsvGK/IMG-5175.jpg)
It was full of shiny wonderfulness:
(https://i.postimg.cc/xj5DyTq7/IMG-5178.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/J4hwTVkh/IMG-5179.jpg)
They must have to wear gloves when they make and pack the pipes, as even with clean hands, anywhere you touch them stands out as a greasy handprint. There was an interesting label about how new pipes have been treated with 2 stroke oil, which will burn off with use.
There was some fitting hardware too, but no copper rings or collets, but that's hardly a deal breaker. I'm glad I got an original pair of the big mounting bolts, as these pipes come with big allen bolts, which will just look wrong.
Quality wise they seem very good, a couple of tiny imperfections but not where you'd notice, and not worth sending them back - at best you'd get a refund while there is no supply, and you'd still need a set of pipes!
The pipes are all bagged and boxed again, and stashed in my attic, as while the bike is on a crate and hasn't got a back wheel fitted I can't mount the pipes. I am rather keen to see them in place though.
Post by: philward on February 26, 2021, 04:48:19 PM
Post by: MrDavo on February 26, 2021, 04:53:59 PM
Post by: Laverda Dave on February 26, 2021, 05:09:29 PM
Post by: sprinta on February 26, 2021, 05:11:22 PM
Speaking of expense, here's £1,500 worth....
A very nice DPD man called Johnathan turned up this morning, with a big box:
(https://i.postimg.cc/j2ZpsvGK/IMG-5175.jpg)
It was full of shiny wonderfulness:
(https://i.postimg.cc/xj5DyTq7/IMG-5178.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/J4hwTVkh/IMG-5179.jpg)
They must have to wear gloves when they make and pack the pipes, as even with clean hands, anywhere you touch them stands out as a greasy handprint. There was an interesting label about how new pipes have been treated with 2 stroke oil, which will burn off with use.
There was some fitting hardware too, but no copper rings or collets, but that's hardly a deal breaker. I'm glad I got an original pair of the big mounting bolts, as these pipes come with big allen bolts, which will just look wrong.
Quality wise they seem very good, a couple of tiny imperfections but not where you'd notice, and not worth sending them back - at best you'd get a refund while there is no supply, and you'd still need a set of pipes!
The pipes are all bagged and boxed again, and stashed in my attic, as while the bike is on a crate and hasn't got a back wheel fitted I can't mount the pipes. I am rather keen to see them in place though.
Are the headers double skinned like the original pipes were?
Post by: MrDavo on February 26, 2021, 05:30:57 PM
In hindsight I should have got the callipers from the garage and measured the internal and external diameters, that’s a job for another day now.
Post by: MrDavo on March 01, 2021, 01:59:51 PM
Next problem to sort is the gear change. I fitted the new gear lever, only to find that the lever has no interest in self centering, and just stays up or down, wherever you push it. Interestingly the one solitary spare part that came with the bike is a gearchange shaft, complete with the centering spring. So the previous owner seems to have realised there was a problem here and bought the part to fix the problem, hopefully. I was worried that it meant engine out and split the cases, but it can be done in place if I remove the sprocket and inner gear cover.
Z power's website says that early bikes have a return spring with 3 coils. this has 4 so it is later - does that matter?
Post by: hairygit on March 01, 2021, 03:20:07 PM
Sent from my POT-LX1 using Tapatalk
Post by: MrDavo on March 01, 2021, 03:40:32 PM
Post by: MrDavo on April 06, 2021, 12:54:39 PM
Now that has been resolved and the trans cover, footrests etc are back on, time to make some progress with the rear end. I fitted the new BT46 to the rear wheel, which had been rebuilt by Hagons. I was surprised how quickly I got the tyre on, not Moto GP standards, but quick for me, using the right lube and experience helps (no smutty giggling at the back, thankyou). Here is the back wheel, a new set of damper rubbers and ready for the sprocket carrier.
(https://i.postimg.cc/9fGHw8Hk/IMG-5209.jpg)
With the sprocket carrier and rear brake fitted, ready to go in. although the first pair of locking tabs for the sprocket nuts were done with a hammer and screwdriver, after some thought I did the rest super neatly using a socket drive extension.
(https://i.postimg.cc/fLDnccwR/IMG-5210.jpg)
Wheel in place, at last the bike looks more like a motorcycle than parts of one. All went in straightforward, but I can't fasten up and get the bike off the box until I have the stoppers that bolt into the end of the swing arm (ordered from Z Power). The spindle has to come out one more time as the marks on the chain adjusters are in the wrong place, I didn't know there was a wrong way round for these until they were!
(https://i.postimg.cc/Hk8gdWZd/IMG-5213.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/rp6Lm63W/IMG-5212.jpg)
Post by: MrDavo on April 12, 2021, 02:49:05 PM
Next up was the rear mudguard, which has been stashed in the attic since it came back from the chromers.A bit of a struggle but I got there in the end. The two allen screws holding the guard to the frame bracket are temporary, the 30mm x 6mm hex bolts supplied with the PMC fitting kit are 2mm too short, and dont go far enough to get the thread started. I have ordered some 35mm hex heads, the allen screws I used for now are too long, I have shredded tyres on overlong mudguard bolts before, its surprising how far a rear wheel can travel upwards on full bump. Grommets, tail lamp wiring and the number plate stop are also fitted.
(https://i.postimg.cc/7YR2rXLG/IMG-5219.jpg)
Next I'll probably do the rear indicators if I have all the right bits before I fit the tailpiece, but that also came out of the attic for a trial fit.
(https://i.postimg.cc/wB8R7vL9/IMG-5220.jpg)
This is the first time I've seen all the body kit on the bike. It does look nearly there save the pipes, my missus thinks she will be going out any day now on the back. I tried to explain that fuel, oil and electricity all have to go in yet, including cutting pipes, setting float levels, getting oil pressure, checking everything electrical lights up or works etc, and general snagging, all of which are never as straightforward as you'd expect.
(https://i.postimg.cc/YCmmrg4X/IMG-5222.jpg)
Post by: Laverda Dave on April 13, 2021, 10:40:17 AM
Post by: MrDavo on April 13, 2021, 12:54:57 PM
Then I only have to add exhaust pipes, oil filter and oil once it's off the crate, plus sort out the dragging front brakes once the bike can be moved away from the wall and the front end can be jacked up with the bike on the centre stand.
Next are the rear indicators and mount the tailpiece properly, then the rear light. I've also been weighing up batteries, my other 2 bikes both have Motoblatt ones, although I did notice another brand of gel battery that looked a lot less yellow. Also I have to rebuild the fuel tap, I have an O ring kit ready.
Post by: taysidedragon on April 13, 2021, 03:46:53 PM
Thanks, I'm thinking I might do all the electrics and fuel malarkey before it comes off the plastic crate, simply because its at a better height to work on.
Then I only have to add exhaust pipes, oil filter and oil once it's off the crate, plus sort out the dragging front brakes once the bike can be moved away from the wall and the front end can be jacked up with the bike on the centre stand.
Next are the rear indicators and mount the tailpiece properly, then the rear light. I've also been weighing up batteries, my other 2 bikes both have Motoblatt ones, although I did notice another brand of gel battery that looked a lot less yellow. Also I have to rebuild the fuel tap, I have an O ring kit ready.
I saw an ad recently for a Motobatt option in black, so they are available. I'll try and remember where I saw it. 🤪
Post by: MrDavo on April 13, 2021, 05:07:42 PM
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kawasaki-Z-900-Z1A-1974-VP14A-3-Vertex-Battery-AGM-12V-YB14L-A2-YB14L-B2/383587457079
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/wOIAAOSwilNdub8S/s-l500.jpg)
Having gone to all that trouble to make the bike look as original as possible, a huge shock of yellow when I lift the seat is to be avoided if possible.
Post by: MrDavo on April 20, 2021, 04:20:18 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/90sZR4LB/IMG_5223.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/SQPWt5mz/IMG_5225.jpg)
I cleaned up and fitted the rear light, which is the real thing, and date coded March 1974, matching the swinging arm. I fitted a new stop/tail bulb, from a box of new bulbs given to me by a mate who allegedly half inched them from Greater Manchester Police when he worked there! The tanks and r/h side panel were removed for safe keeping while I do the electrics and fuel etc, wrapped and put back in the attic. Now all the electrical components and wiring are in place I fitted the new battery, to see what we've got. It wasn't so good at first. The console indicator light came on, and went out when I put her in first gear, so that's the neutral light in the wrong place. Also I had the oil light lit, the horn parped, and a brief poke of the starter turned the engine, but only for a second as there's no oil in yet.
That however was that, no lights or indicators at all! I was a bit hacked off about this. I never expect everything to work perfectly first time, but as all wiring and switches are brand new and connected up, I expected more, and was unsure what to try next.
Later I got curious about an unused yellow and black (earth) lead with a female spade connector, that pops out of the loom at the same place as the brake light switch wires. Its in the middle of the photo below, there was nothing at all obvious to connect it to, so I'd just left it.
(https://i.postimg.cc/sxW9J9QL/IMG-5229.jpg)
Acting on a hunch I temporarily connected it to the the battery, and everything worked!! :D I made up a lead with a spade at one end and a loop at the other, and connected it to the earth point on the engine. I crimped and soldered the joints, as losing your lights at speed is no fun at all, as I have learned by experience. Anyhow, I now have a full selection of lights, clock lights, indicators, plus brake and idiot lights. also the red brake lamp warning lights up when you apply the brakes. The lights go slightly dimmer when I turn the ignition on at the kill switch. Again, I don't want to check for sparks at the plugs until there is oil circulating.
(https://i.postimg.cc/WbJMRn4Y/IMG_0171.jpg)
The only issues to be sorted are firstly the neutral and indicator warning lights need swapping around, to do this I have to take the headlamp and clocks off before I can get at the console. Secondly, although I don't have a pilot lamp yet (on order) the headlamp lights up when the bar switch is in the PO position as wellas when it should. There's some funny business with blue wires from the switchgear that plug into each other, in an undocumented way, over and above the wires that use the white block connectors. I'm guessing that's where my problem lies, but I'll wait till I have the pilot lamp fitted before I start to play around.
Next I refurbished the (original) fuel tap, cleaning out the ossified seals and fitting new ones, plus giving everything a polish on the wheel. I'm going to check the float fuel levels next, I may try using the unneeded chain oiler tank as a temporary fuel tank and check the carbs a pair at a time, if I can fit the pipe to the carbs without leaks assuming the internal pipe diameter is the same (it might not be).
Post by: royhall on April 20, 2021, 06:27:10 PM
Post by: MrDavo on April 20, 2021, 07:37:04 PM
No worries, everything has an earth now.
Post by: MrDavo on April 23, 2021, 10:37:25 AM
Yesterday a new headlamp rim arrived from Z Power, the correct US market type with the adjuster screw. After a bit of faffing I swapped my RHD Lucas halogen unit out of the old tatty rim and into the shiny new one. I also bought a genuine pilot light, I had to change one of the bullet connectors to fit it. I seem to be getting better at these, although I seem to get better results with the careful use of long nosed pliers than using either of my crimping tools. I put the rim on the bike and tried the lights - they worked but I still had the headlight main beam coming on when the light switch was in the pilot light position. The fix is boring but I'll leave it here in case anyone else scratching their head finds it in a Google search.
I'd learned from John Brookes' book that the US Z1s didn't have a pilot light fitted. Comparing the US and European wiring diagrams I could see that while all the wires were there on both versions, the brown feed for the pilot on he US bike was disconnected, and instead the PO switch was connected to the headlamp via a blue wire, that was left connected to nothing for Europe. I can see that you really don't want to accidentally get darkness when you switch the lights on! As the replica looms and switches at least seem to come wired for all options, and I'd plugged all the blue wires together, the trick is to find which wire has to be unplugged to disable the feed from PO switch to the headlamp. A bit of trial and error and all was well, and even the pass switch works. Never had one of those before, like cruise control in my car, or the friction screw on the HD twistgrip, I'll probably never think to use it.
That's it for the electrics, although sparks and charging can't be tested until I at least have oil in the motor. Next up is take the clocks off again so I can swap the bulbs in the idiot lights, and some snagging with the back light mounting and rear brake rod. Then I'm going to tackle the next challenge - petrol!
Post by: MrDavo on May 05, 2021, 04:22:09 PM
Some sleuthing has turned up that the float valves are too small, and so the needles aren't going in far enough to achieve the correct fuel level. The 'why' is interesting, basically my carbs are nearly a year older than the bike. They are May 73, the rest of the bike, where there are date codes, was built March 74. So you need parts to fit Z1 carbs rather than Z1A, this is where the PO got it wrong and bought the wrong 2.0mm float valves. Whether the carbs were 10 months old when pulled from the parts bin, or whether they were swapped later for some reason, we'll never know. It does make my carbs, as original Z1, worth more, not that I'm breaking the bike for parts any time soon.
The correct 2.6mm float valves are at least available, from Kawasaki, at a hilarious £45 each :o (4 required!). The cheap pattern ones all seem to be 2.0mm, for the later bikes. £180 is a bit of a leap from the pattern ones at £20 per set, that said I've never had much joy with non original carb parts - see my CL450 thread, where I ended up cleaning up and using the original carb parts, rather than struggle with kit replicas which just didn't work properly. Unfortunately what I got was carbs rebuilt with all new brassware etc, no original parts came with the carbs, so I can't try swapping.
Post by: Laverda Dave on May 06, 2021, 09:26:58 AM
Post by: MrDavo on May 06, 2021, 03:17:32 PM
The only consolation is that genuine valves for later models are £52.95! That said, if you have a later model you can probably use pattern 2.0 ones OK, there are plenty around.
Post by: MrDavo on May 11, 2021, 09:58:03 AM
Having bent the tangs (on only 2 carbs, there are separate feeds in pairs) a long way down, when I bent them back I felt them ‘go’, they have cracked. I persevered and ran some solder reinforcement along the float, but another tiny adjustment and one tang broke off completely.
Damn! These floats are totally unobtanium as far as I can see, please keep your eyes peeled for a pair, although the bike is so near finished it’s just a paperweight until I find some floats, I may as well put a dust sheet over it for now.
To make it more interesting my carbs are older than the bike, May 1973 147 3 carbs. Whether they got swapped or had just been on the shelf a long time we’ll never know. The float is part number 16031-024, has curved moulded cutouts on top, not straight, and steel, not brass hardware. Putting the part number into eBay just leads to a pair of later floats which are exactly what I don’t want, some people are taking the p&ss.
I’ll put a photo up later, I don’t know how to steal it from the internet on my phone.
Post by: AshimotoK0 on May 11, 2021, 01:04:14 PM
Post by: K2-K6 on May 11, 2021, 01:22:06 PM
Is there anything enough to solder a new made tab to? Even a compromise in design to give you surface contact could work.
You'd need to heavily tin the new part, slosh something like bakers soldering flux onto original, then contact solder with a big hot iron on the new part to attach instantly.
Post by: MrDavo on May 11, 2021, 06:15:54 PM
Basically, take a strip of thin brass, wrap it around the float 'pipe', then the double thickness where the tang is was soldered together and the strip sweated onto the float This is the result, at the very least worth a try, and if these floats are as elusive as it seems, my best shot! A picture is worth 100 words etc...
(https://i.postimg.cc/3RSdtqJB/IMG-5246.jpg)
I need to polish the marks out of the tangs if I can, otherwise we are ready to have another go.
Post by: royhall on May 11, 2021, 06:20:05 PM
Post by: AndyD on May 11, 2021, 06:25:41 PM
Cheers,
Andy
Post by: philward on May 11, 2021, 09:24:44 PM
Post by: Laverda Dave on May 11, 2021, 10:15:49 PM
Post by: MrDavo on May 24, 2021, 02:18:14 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/Qx8JFMvF/IMG-5251.jpg)
I got to the stage where to do the remaining jobs (oil & filter, fit the pipes and sort the front brakes) I needed to finally get the bike off the grey plastic box that I have built it up on. I gave my mates a ring on saturday, and behold! we have a rolling chassis (well, with dragging font discs due to the wrong pads). The box is looking a bit worse for wear but surviving well considering I've built a Harley and a Z1A on it.
(https://i.postimg.cc/P5NbMRXh/IMG-5252.jpg)
I didn't have an oil filter to fit when the fame and engine went on the box, so I've been unable to turn the engine over at all. I fitted the filter, and chucked 4L of 10/40 in, and started to turn the engine. I took the plug out of the oil gallery, and peered in. No sign of oil, worrying, my CB750 had dramas at this stage due to an airlocked pump - I had to prime it with Vaseline before it would work. This time I pressed the starter and suddenly the oil light went out. Looking down there was a welcome pool of oil on the floor, from the oil gallery, so I put the plug back in, and at last could turn the engine over in search of sparks. I also fitted a set of the little plug lead number tags, from PMC.
(https://i.postimg.cc/MK9bVS8d/IMG-5255.jpg)
Happy with that I fitted the plugs, next I got the tank out of the attic again to sort out fuel. A big disappointment here, despite new O rings, my genuine fuel tap does not understand the concept of 'off', fuel still drips through. This seems quite a common problem, some research reveals OEM ones to be unobtainable, and most cheap replicas to be a waste of time. I did read however that PMC have upped their game, and found a better source. We'll see, I've had to order one, not much option other than a real cheapo one that I know will be rubbish.
So no attempt to start her up yet, but I've put the exhaust pipes on. A couple of issues with bolts too short, and nuts that don't match the thread on the long bolts, but here's a sneak preview, better pics when I can drag her out of the garage at last. Note that the plastic box is now in service as a box again, with all the remaining Z1 bits. When I bought the bike it filled five large boxes.
(https://i.postimg.cc/rwb1ZNs4/IMG-5258.jpg)
Can someone confirm that the four rubber / steel exhaust bushes all go in the two frame brackets, the parts diagram gives the impression that the bolt goes through the bush, then the pipe (see https://images.cmsnl.com/img/partslists/kawasaki-z1a-1974-usa-canada-air-cleanermufflers_bigkar119561216_8faa.gif ) but I don't think that's correct.
Post by: royhall on May 24, 2021, 02:27:07 PM
Post by: sprinta on May 24, 2021, 05:00:06 PM
The drama I had with the float levels finally sorted out, and the slides bench synched, here are the carbs, complete with pipework, about to go back on the bike.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Qx8JFMvF/IMG-5251.jpg)
I got to the stage where to do the remaining jobs (oil & filter, fit the pipes and sort the front brakes) I needed to finally get the bike off the grey plastic box that I have built it up on. I gave my mates a ring on saturday, and behold! we have a rolling chassis (well, with dragging font discs due to the wrong pads). The box is looking a bit worse for wear but surviving well considering I've built a Harley and a Z1A on it.
(https://i.postimg.cc/P5NbMRXh/IMG-5252.jpg)
I didn't have an oil filter to fit when the fame and engine went on the box, so I've been unable to turn the engine over at all. I fitted the filter, and chucked 4L of 10/40 in, and started to turn the engine. I took the plug out of the oil gallery, and peered in. No sign of oil, worrying, my CB750 had dramas at this stage due to an airlocked pump - I had to prime it with Vaseline before it would work. This time I pressed the starter and suddenly the oil light went out. Looking down there was a welcome pool of oil on the floor, from the oil gallery, so I put the plug back in, and at last could turn the engine over in search of sparks. I also fitted a set of the little plug lead number tags, from PMC.
(https://i.postimg.cc/MK9bVS8d/IMG-5255.jpg)
Happy with that I fitted the plugs, next I got the tank out of the attic again to sort out fuel. A big disappointment here, despite new O rings, my genuine fuel tap does not understand the concept of 'off', fuel still drips through. This seems quite a common problem, some research reveals OEM ones to be unobtainable, and most cheap replicas to be a waste of time. I did read however that PMC have upped their game, and found a better source. We'll see, I've had to order one, not much option other than a real cheapo one that I know will be rubbish.
So no attempt to start her up yet, but I've put the exhaust pipes on. A couple of issues with bolts too short, and nuts that don't match the thread on the long bolts, but here's a sneak preview, better pics when I can drag her out of the garage at last. Note that the plastic box is now in service as a box again, with all the remaining Z1 bits. When I bought the bike it filled five large boxes.
(https://i.postimg.cc/rwb1ZNs4/IMG-5258.jpg)
Can someone confirm that the four rubber / steel exhaust bushes all go in the two frame brackets, the parts diagram gives the impression that the bolt goes through the bush, then the pipe (see https://images.cmsnl.com/img/partslists/kawasaki-z1a-1974-usa-canada-air-cleanermufflers_bigkar119561216_8faa.gif ) but I don't think that's correct.
I can confirm that the 4 rubber/steel bonded bushes go either side of the frame silencer mounting brk holes. The parts book diagram is wrong in the way in which it has shown it.
Post by: MrDavo on May 25, 2021, 11:41:28 AM
Thanks also for the comments, I took these photos yesterday when I was maneuvering the bike to the back of the garage, so I could get my car back in out of the rain.
(https://i.postimg.cc/nLThJqNV/IMG_5259.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/DZMfWn2t/IMG_5260.jpg)
Post by: Laverda Dave on May 25, 2021, 12:24:35 PM
Post by: Andrew-S on May 25, 2021, 12:39:00 PM
Thanks for the advice about the exhaust bushes, I finally got these sorted properly last night. All I need to do now is to sort the front brakes out, and fit a non leaking petrol tap, then I can see if she fires up! Once ready I'll fit the number plate and get some insurance so I can start to run the engine in. I am watching my emails like a hawk, waiting for notification that the tap is on its way.
Thanks also for the comments, I took these photos yesterday when I was maneuvering the bike to the back of the garage, so I could get my car back in out of the rain.
(https://i.postimg.cc/nLThJqNV/IMG_5259.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/DZMfWn2t/IMG_5260.jpg)
The Zed1A is looking great Dave, I'm sure you're very pleased.
Can I ask about the interlocking tiles on your garage floor - do they get marked or torn up by the centre stand and would they survive a car jack? What thickness are they and who supplied them as I'm looking to fit some to my garage floor?
Thanks,
Andrew
Post by: MrDavo on May 25, 2021, 02:15:03 PM
The floor tiles I bought about 8 years ago off eBay as a job lot from a firm in Sheffield, I’m sorry I don’t have more info. They’re about 1cm thick, PVC (I think) and pretty durable. I have used jacks, paddock and axle stands no problem. They often leave a mark, which goes in time as the tile ‘recovers’. Much appreciated due to the lack of dust, especially when I end up having to lie on the floor under the car. I do have a collection of old car floor mats which I put down for kneeling etc as I’m not getting any younger.
Post by: Andrew-S on May 25, 2021, 02:58:17 PM
I think when you ride the Zed I'm sure it very quickly become you're favourite kid........ ;D
Post by: MrDavo on May 25, 2021, 05:24:25 PM
Post by: philward on May 25, 2021, 05:29:15 PM
Thanks Andrew, yes I’m pleased with the Zed, however I’m concerned that soon I won’t have a project any more - I get more out of doing them than using them - with 3 bikes and 2 cars I can only use one at once. I might sell a bike, but it’s like choosing between your kids.
I know that feeling Dave (about time spent 'doing them' and riding the bikes), with 4 bikes, a motorhome (which we are away for a week every 2 weeks thoughout summer), my rotational bike ride outs are getting shorter! Now retired but with the 4 bikes. 2 old cars, motorhome and general home maintenance, I'm on the go all the time (have to get up at 6.30 to fit a run in!) - I tell myself (and my wife), that the bikes are my 'art' and its not just about the riding anymore. Don't know how other members get on as I know they have more bikes than me?
Post by: philward on May 25, 2021, 05:33:49 PM
Thanks Dave, useful info on the tiles.
I think when you ride the Zed I'm sure it very quickly become you're favourite kid........ ;D
I agree Andrew, the stand out moment in my biking life was the return ride from picking up my ZIB in August 1975 - can still feel the sensation (the speed, smoothness and road presence after my (much loved) 500K1
Post by: MrDavo on June 01, 2021, 02:33:35 PM
Saturday she was dragged into the sunlight for the first time, for the first test.
(https://i.postimg.cc/x1X0B8VB/IMG_5287.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/jSBsTTs2/IMG_5272.jpg)
I also got the see the metal flake in the paint 'popping' in the sunlight.
(https://i.postimg.cc/267mnBnL/IMG_5286.jpg)
A couple of trips around the block, to check it all works, and then off for the first ride. Here we are by the Holmfirth road at the site of the 'Isle of Skye' moorland pub. The bike ran smoothly, with a familiar whistle from the airbox, similar to my Triumph Daytona 1000 four.
(https://i.postimg.cc/wvpgtkRd/IMG_5274.jpg)
Number 4 header was a little straw coloured when I got back. scared of irreversibly blue pipes I whipped the carbs off, and applied a smear of silicon under #4 carb manifold, and tightened the clamp screws tight. No more yellowing, and I polished out most of what there was. I'm running her in by the book, and changing up at 4,000 rpm for the first 500 miles. We are now at 160 miles, she runs a little rough below 3k, not sure if that's because we are on the verge of stalling or if the setup isn't quite there yet, also if you set the tickover at a particular temperature, if it gets hotter/colder it won't tick over that well without using the throttle a little bit. I'm hoping to get the timing strobed and the carbs vacuum balanced ASAP, we'll see how we are then. The wife isn't coming pillion while running in, she wants me to get on with it, so we can 'go for a blast' on her first ride out.
thanks for everyone's help, particularly Spitfire, for the kind donation of a genuine KHI Shop Manual languishing in his attic.
Post by: JamesH on June 01, 2021, 04:36:49 PM
Post by: philward on June 01, 2021, 06:02:52 PM
Post by: Laverda Dave on June 01, 2021, 06:17:07 PM
Post by: Spitfire on June 01, 2021, 07:18:53 PM
Cheers
Dennis
Post by: smoothoperator on June 01, 2021, 07:42:49 PM
Post by: taysidedragon on June 02, 2021, 10:47:09 AM
Post by: MCTID on June 02, 2021, 12:07:49 PM
My Missus got stroppy with me because I stood admiring it for a few minutes........like you do !
You have done a fine job there Dave.....and I think all on this Forum have enjoyed the journey so a hearty thanks from all of us.
It was worth all the long hours, head scratching, knuckle bruising, cuppas going cold, swearing and counting to 10 that it's taken as it's a real credit to you. Well done.
Post by: royhall on June 02, 2021, 06:46:24 PM
Post by: kevski on June 02, 2021, 07:00:44 PM
Post by: Andrew-S on June 02, 2021, 07:20:26 PM
Post by: Bryanj on June 02, 2021, 11:37:56 PM
Post by: MrDavo on June 03, 2021, 12:51:02 PM
Fantastic job Dave. And to think I very nearly bought that before you. I didn't because I thought 9k was too much. Who's the fool now then, ME. Beautiful looking bike.
I thought £9k too much too Roy, which is why I paid £8.5k!! He was asking £10k at the time, no offers. He dropped to £9k no offers later. I persuaded him that a lot of people were selling toys first to make ends meet during Covid (him included), depressing the market. He had priced up the absent parts, he reckoned another £3.5k to finish it, which turned out to be about right, including the exhaust set. So it owes me around £12k, still a lot of money, but a sight less than I could probably sell it for, I certainly couldn't buy one as good for that.
Test riding showed the tickover to be 'chuggy', with a lot of noise from the clutch in neutral. Time for a tune up.
I had a go at strobe timing and synching the carbs yesterday. My cheapo Gunson neon timing light proved to be utterly useless, I couldn't see any marks at all, even after I painted them yellow! My mate Mark says you can use these, but only looking close up in near darkness. A year or two back, an old chap I know who used to be a rally mechanic gave me a bunch of his old tools, as he was moving into a flat, he wanted them to go to someone he knew would use them. A root around in the garage revealed an old Crypton Powerflash he'd given me, with 12v leads to a battery and an inductive pickup. Once I had it all worked out, what a difference! It turns out my static setting was a touch advanced, we'll see what the difference is like when I go out next.
Mark lent me a big fan, and a set of vacuum gauges. Here we are set up, with the chain oiler tank pressed into service again.
(https://i.postimg.cc/LsGn3w7r/IMG-5297.jpg)
I got the 4 carbs about equal at a steady throttle, however I seem to have adjusted all 4 off their stops, as the idle adjustment screw had a gap that it didn't have before. The adjuster screw on #1 carb is a bit broken, I'm going to order a new one, but it may have to come from the USA. I've got them as near as I can for now, I'll have to do it again when I change the adjuster.
Post by: royhall on June 03, 2021, 01:33:29 PM
Post by: MrDavo on June 03, 2021, 10:03:27 PM
It ticks over, but only with me holding the throttle open a tad. Let go and it dies. Come to think of it, I had several bikes in the past that were always like that, particularly the ones that had full race cams etc. It’s the first time I’ve ever synched carbs myself, but I’m pretty sure that I should have left one carb alone and adjusted the others, as it is they are now all off their stops. I’d turn them all back an equal amount and have another go at vacuum synching but as one adjuster is broken I’m going to do it again once she is run in. By then the replacement adjuster should have come, unfortunately I could only find them in America.
Having fun putting the miles on in the good weather, now at 260 miles. Today I had my first cheek clenching encounter with a big bump on a corner, but that’s 1970s suspension for you.
Post by: MrDavo on June 07, 2021, 01:19:16 PM
Saturday I did 100 miles running round the Peak district, I met a lot of people who have had a zed at some time in the past. When I got home, I noticed, to my horror, a load of oil in the ends of #1 and #2 pipes. Also, the oil level had dropped from Max to Min in only 100 miles, a bit steep. When I started from cold, I noticed a puff of blue smoke, but absolutely none during riding. I hoped it was due to overfilling - I had topped up to the top mark in the sight glass, however I would expect some oil in the airbox, and there was none.
Sunday I didn't top her up, I cleaned out the pipe ends with paper and brake cleaner, and went for a test ride. This was the result:
(https://i.postimg.cc/sDjB6Sjm/IMG-5317.jpg)
The upside is that those two pipes will never rust from the inside. I should watch for drivers behind me putting on their wash / wipe. Its also on the rim, chainguard and the back and front of the number plate.
I'm guessing that, as the engine was rebuilt an unknown time ago, that the valve oil seals have perished and failed. When I stop on a ride I use the sidestand, which probably pools oil on that side too. If it were bores or rings, I'd expect smoke and oiled plugs if it were using that much oil. the fact it's not oiling plugs makes me think specifically exhaust valve seals, the oil is going straight into the pipes without being burned.
I've seen the Suzuki Viton seals recommended on the Z1OC forum, I'll order a set, also I need a Vesrah top end gasket set, can anyone point me at ones which have the split head gasket (typical Ebay blaggers are advertising sets with single head gaskets as fitting all 900s), if not I can get a full set from Z Power. Never had the head of one of these before, I have a shop manual, but there may be questions. I'll check the valve clearances before I take the head off, to see how accurate they were and give me a heads up if I need extra shims.
Post by: Bryanj on June 07, 2021, 01:27:21 PM
Post by: MrDavo on June 07, 2021, 01:45:26 PM
Post by: Bryanj on June 07, 2021, 02:48:12 PM
Post by: MrDavo on June 07, 2021, 03:35:16 PM
Quote
Do you know if it was re bored?
Yes, no documentary proof (of anything) but I could see brand new pistons and valves when I shone a torch down the plugholes. I would expect a lot of smoke if it were burning that amounts of oil, there is none at all, just the oil in the pipes.
Post by: royhall on June 07, 2021, 05:39:04 PM
Post by: Bryanj on June 07, 2021, 05:43:19 PM
Post by: royhall on June 07, 2021, 05:54:12 PM
Post by: MrDavo on June 07, 2021, 07:03:27 PM
I’m guessing that I’m going to need to take the barrels off, if only to check that the ring gaps aren’t all lined up!
Post by: royhall on June 07, 2021, 07:08:48 PM
Post by: Laverda Dave on June 07, 2021, 09:52:53 PM
If I were you Dave I would check the piston to bore clearance whilst the barrels are off and especially if you don't know who did the rebore.
Post by: MrDavo on June 07, 2021, 10:32:56 PM
I’m almost ready to take the cams out and whip the head off, but I want to record the valve clearances first. As well as giving me an idea if I need to buy some shims, it may also give me an idea of how well the engine was put together.
Post by: royhall on June 08, 2021, 07:45:27 AM
Post by: AshimotoK0 on June 08, 2021, 07:49:01 AM
4-into-2 original exhaust on that model is certainly a rocking-hose-poo item if ever there was one though.
Loving this rebuild and so glad we persuaded you to do a build log on here it. I bet you don't see any Honda-4 rebuilds on the Z1 forum!
Post by: MrDavo on June 08, 2021, 10:16:50 AM
I was told that the engine was rebuilt by someone who was ‘ex BSB’ but he could have made the tea for all I know. How long ago is anyone’s guess, although imported and UK registered in 1995 it hasn’t come up as on the road since Swansea started publishing records, not sure which year that started.
Anyway when I get in there (I was tempted to whip the head off before putting the engine in last year, but took a calculated risk) I should know if it’s right or not. The puff of blue smoke on startup makes me think its exhaust valve seals. My 911 does that, I'm sure for the same reason, but they are 36 year old seals, as far as I know.
A pair of topless photos I took last night. Nothing much to report other than all very clean with no signs of scuffing on the cams.
(https://i.postimg.cc/2SJ8WK3g/IMG-5318a.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/3xWxdTrg/IMG-5320a.jpg)
Post by: Bryanj on June 08, 2021, 03:57:26 PM
HINT
Dont get anal about valve clearance there is a max and minclearance, use two feelers and as long as the small one slides in and the big one dont thats good enough
Post by: royhall on June 08, 2021, 04:01:57 PM
Post by: Laverda Dave on June 08, 2021, 07:05:11 PM
Looks clean, there is a special tool for shim changing and if you are going to lap the valves you may need one
HINT
Dont get anal about valve clearance there is a max and minclearance, use two feelers and as long as the small one slides in and the big one dont thats good enough
Strangely enough I had to get two new inlet valve shims for the Z400J after rebuilding the motor. I gave all the valves a very light lapping in but this was to get rid of a very light carbon deposit (I could have used my finger nail to get it off really). Considering the motor only has a genuine 420 miles on it I didn't think it would need any reshimming. After I put it all back together I found No.1 and No.3 inlets were 3 and 2 thou under the specified clearance of 10-15 thou. The remaining 6 valves were mid point between min and max.
Post by: royhall on June 08, 2021, 07:11:46 PM
Post by: Bryanj on June 08, 2021, 08:18:11 PM
Post by: kevski on June 08, 2021, 08:51:42 PM
Post by: Laverda Dave on June 08, 2021, 09:08:24 PM
15 thou sounds like a big gap. Are you sure. The GS1000 is 1 to 3 thou?I'm getting my measurements mixed up again Roy!
Inlet is between 0.10-0.15, two of mine were at 0.7 & 0.8 and so were a bit on the tight side.
Post by: MrDavo on June 08, 2021, 10:46:09 PM
First I checked the valve clearances. 7 were in spec, one was 1 thou out at .006. The valve seals are black and quite hard. They weren’t ripped but not a tight fit on the valve. I’d rather find something obvious but it is what it is. The valves, despite being new have black deposit on the stems, so I guess that’s excess oil.
Bores and pistons are new, the pistons are marked as plus 0.5mm. Stock bore measurement is 66mm, mine measure 66.50 which seems spot on. The pistons are ART, which I believe is OEM.
I seem to have lost one of the idler damper rubbers which is worrying, I’ve drained the oil and I’ll drop the sump pan tomorrow to see if it’s made it’s way down there.
Post by: royhall on June 09, 2021, 06:43:57 AM
Post by: Bryanj on June 09, 2021, 08:25:34 AM
Post by: royhall on June 09, 2021, 08:26:24 AM
Post by: Bryanj on June 09, 2021, 08:42:09 AM
Post by: royhall on June 09, 2021, 08:48:31 AM
Post by: MrDavo on June 09, 2021, 12:59:56 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/5NKtTYyM/IMG-5324a.jpg)
I'm not sure if I should be worrying about the two pistons with NO carbon, or the two that have coked up that much in only 375 miles. Either way its not right, I'm glad I pulled the head off, I'm sure it wouldn't have lived a long and happy life like that. As far as I can tell I didn't have an air leak from the inlets, everything was tight, the rubbers are new. The plugs were pretty much like the pistons, pale and weak looking on #2 and #4, sooty on the other two.
(https://i.postimg.cc/8kHcdnVc/IMG-5323a.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/cLVL1pf9/IMG-5325a.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/m2gDmNbw/IMG-5326a.jpg)
Until I borrow some calipers, I can't accurately measure the bore to piston clearances. The piston thrust faces are lightly polished, as are the honing marks in the bores.
I'm wondering about the head gaskets. I had been intending to retorque the heads at 500 miles when I did a service, but when I took the head off I was surprised how untight the head nuts were, it didn't take much force to undo them. could the gasket have 'settled'? could oil and/or air have been getting into the bores around the gasket? That could explain both the air and oil where it shouldn't be? Air could get into the 'clean' cylinders (there was a whistle but I assumed it to be induction noise from the airbox), and or oil from the feed studs into the bores. Or it could just be the valve seals, which seemed to be hard and not a great fit around the valves, which had black burned oil deposits on them (they were new).
By the way, Saturdays test ride has produced my first Notice of intended Prosecution for speeding in many years. I saw the van, but too late, it must have been set to long distance looking down the hill I was coming up. At 42mph in a (deserted) 30mph limit, I just qualify for a Speed Awareness course, I looked up the limit and it is up to and including 42mph. Hopefully, it is up to plod's discretion.
Post by: royhall on June 09, 2021, 01:46:49 PM
Post by: K2-K6 on June 09, 2021, 01:57:05 PM
You get an odd effect depending on combustion temperature as the oil doesn't burn effectively and reduces the notional compression ratio.
If you saw blue smoke (which you didn't) it would indicate it was getting the oil close to burning but still not quite, hence the blue haze on two strokes as you don't want the oil to quite burn in making it effective as lubrication.
In much quantity, engine oil in the compressed cylinder takes away it's ability to burn the conventional mixture and acts like a fire damper to slow the process and you may be below the temperature that would make carbon deposits.
Post by: royhall on June 09, 2021, 02:14:55 PM
Post by: K2-K6 on June 09, 2021, 03:12:33 PM
Post by: hairygit on June 09, 2021, 04:29:36 PM
Sent from my POT-LX1 using Tapatalk
Post by: MrDavo on June 09, 2021, 05:52:02 PM
Post by: K2-K6 on June 09, 2021, 06:31:48 PM
Looks fine from this distance.
Post by: MrDavo on June 10, 2021, 11:43:50 AM
First photo is the left side, you can see oil going from the stud, top right in the photo, across the gasket (and under the head) to #2 cylinder (the lower one )
(https://i.postimg.cc/J7B479ZH/IMG-5329.jpg)
This photo you can see a similar trail, from the front right stud to cylinder #4.
(https://i.postimg.cc/8cW1y6Nm/IMG-5328.jpg)
2 and 4 are my two 'wet' cylinders.
The oil feed to the cams comes up the rear outer studs. There don't seem to be O rings to stop it leaking in the parts book.
Post by: royhall on June 10, 2021, 11:55:16 AM
Post by: MrDavo on June 10, 2021, 12:50:22 PM
The real thing costs an arm and a leg (£151 pre discount and P&P) for the pair, however when I did my CB750 I paid over £110 for a real head gasket, because they work every time.
I'll never know for sure, but maybe I could have got away with just retorquing the head rather than pull it all to bits. I would still have been on knockoff gaskets and valve seals though, if I use the best I know I've done the best job I can. The Viton valve seals showed up this morning.
Post by: royhall on June 10, 2021, 04:36:32 PM
Maybe something like this [size=78%]Cometic Motorcycle C8019 Head Gasket Kawasaki Z1 900 73-75 KZ900A 76 -77 KZ1000J | eBay (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/222984860634?var=0&mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&campid=5338343596&toolid=10001&customid=eb%3Ag%3Avms%3Aeb%3Ap%3A222984860634%3BEAIaIQobChMIy7PS7LON8QIVielRCh0MIAdnEAQYASABEgL6efD_BwE&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIy7PS7LON8QIVielRCh0MIAdnEAQYASABEgL6efD_BwE)[/size]
May not suitable for yours but these are quality gaskets, it does list this as fits 1973 Z1.
Post by: MrDavo on June 10, 2021, 06:26:18 PM
Interesting what you said about your Suzuki head bolts loosening as your gasket failed, I'm sure I did check the torque, at the same time as I took the cam cover off to lube the dry cams.
Post by: royhall on June 11, 2021, 07:17:26 AM
Post by: K2-K6 on June 11, 2021, 10:43:38 AM
The gaskets certainly look compromised, but don't appear to tally with that much oil going through the cylinders, well not without some also being visible externally too.
I'd suspect the other elements until proven as measured within correct tolerances.
Post by: MrDavo on June 11, 2021, 05:08:05 PM
I’m away next week, but when I get back I’ll take the barrels and pistons to an engineering firm that has been recommended by a mate in the classic bike trade, for a spot of measuring. With the cost of real head gaskets I’m not installing one for a few oily miles again.
Post by: MrDavo on June 21, 2021, 03:58:15 PM
I included a sheet saying what (and why) I need measuring, plus a copy of the page from the workshop manual dealing with piston clearances. If the measurements show that the rebore was cocked up, then +1.0mm pistons are avaiable, though I don't want to use up the rebores if I don't have to.
While I wait I need to sort the head out, here I have fitted the Viton valve seals, using the wheelie bin again as an outdoor workbench.
(https://i.postimg.cc/c4hCzCSY/IMG-5332.jpg)
For the sake of my sanity and valve clearances I had been warned that under no circumstances should I get shims and valves etc mixed up. A root around revealed a tray (with lid) for dips, nuts etc that we inherited from my Mother in Law. Once at the centre of the dinner table, with its 8 compartments it turned out to be just what I needed!
(https://i.postimg.cc/Nj0Fvtsn/IMG-5331.jpg)
Post by: Laverda Dave on June 21, 2021, 08:12:13 PM
Post by: kevski on June 21, 2021, 08:26:38 PM
Post by: Bryanj on June 22, 2021, 12:53:27 AM
Post by: MrDavo on June 22, 2021, 03:57:02 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/d1kqvjZz/IMG-5345.jpg)
As mentioned in my last post, the barrels and pistons are away at an engineering firm being properly measured for clearance. As well as reassembling the head with new valve seals, I also need another look in the carbs, I will have to resynch them after. I have a new NOS adjuster to replace the one I broke, also I assumed that all the needles were in the right place. The clips should be on the third groove down, however this photo I took when I was sorting out a battered pilot jet holder clearly shows the needle in position 4, this is how I found it and probably how it went back together, so I need to check all four. Maybe it will help the slow speed running, at the moment the air screws seem to make beggar all difference.
(https://i.postimg.cc/SxXsXwZH/IMG-4996.jpg)
Post by: AshimotoK0 on July 03, 2021, 09:07:01 PM
Click on Link for full article ;) :--
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pacj8e2usra1r56/Z.pdf?dl=0
[attachimg=1]
Post by: AshimotoK0 on July 06, 2021, 08:30:20 AM
Post by: Laverda Dave on July 06, 2021, 02:35:35 PM
I also remember Bob's CBX rebuild, what happened to that bike? I think Bob Berry went on to edit 'The Biker'.
Post by: MrDavo on July 06, 2021, 03:27:43 PM
Good news from the engineering shop today, he's finally had the chance to measure everything up, and the piston to bore clearances are fine and within spec at 3 thou. That's a big relief, I didn't want to use up my second rebore if I didn't have to, never mind the cost of another set of pistons.
There were two things to point out, one was that, as predicted, running in gently with modern synthetic was a mistake, the bores looked lightly glazed rather than run in. he's going to give the bores a very light hone, and I'll chuck some straight mineral oil in for the first 500 miles this time, and not 'baby' it too much.
The other observation was that the piston expander rings (under the oil rings) didn't seem to be doing a lot. I don't know if they can take a set over time if installed and then not used for years, but using 'an abundance of caution' (as they keep saying over Covid rules these days) I've ordered a new set of +0.5mm rings, as well as new circlips, from Z Power.
Post by: AshimotoK0 on July 06, 2021, 03:55:16 PM
Post by: royhall on July 06, 2021, 04:17:55 PM
Post by: Bryanj on July 06, 2021, 05:26:05 PM
Post by: MrDavo on July 07, 2021, 03:34:44 PM
Post by: Bryanj on July 07, 2021, 03:53:26 PM
Post by: MrDavo on July 21, 2021, 04:00:16 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/ZqKvLRyc/IMG-5372.jpg)
Despite keeping all the parts for each cylinder separate, and not regrinding all the valve seats (i'd only done 375 miles), a couple of my valve clearances are right up the pictures, much to my disappointment. Two are under, (practically zero) two are on the big side at .15mm, so I'll try swapping the shims around.
I dont know how that happened, if you put all the same parts back where they came from everything should be exactly the same. But they aren't, and we are where we are. Luckily there is an excellent guide to valve clearance setting on the Z1OC forum, I've ordered a genuine shim tool and, following advice on that thread, one of the smallest thickness shims, so I have a spare when swapping around the shims, and a way of remeasuring the two with virtually no clearance.
Post by: royhall on July 21, 2021, 04:07:45 PM
Post by: MrDavo on July 29, 2021, 02:52:31 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/5tGm7Lxm/IMG-5371.jpg)
I got a 2.0 shim from Z Power., so I could measure the clearance on the two valves with zero clearance, and to give me an extra to do some swapping around between the tight ones and the wide. I also got the genuine tool to make life easier. I had to buy a single 230 shim to get one in spec, they are finally all within the .05 to .15 (as modified from 0.10 in a service bulletin which I've read about but not actually seen) range now, so happy days, exhaust pipes and cam cover are back on. I'm at the Silverstone Classic this weekend, but next week I only have to assemble and readjust the carbs and I can have another go at running her in.
Post by: sprinta on July 31, 2021, 10:28:46 AM
Post by: K2-K6 on July 31, 2021, 05:11:12 PM
You'd expect the valve clearance to change during that period but with a more accurate and consistent read on where they are after 500 miles or so.
Newly cross honed bores will be helped most to bring the rings in under higher torque loading, rpm is restricted to control the lapping linear speed (it's just machine lapping really) while the bore has it's "teeth" in place to cut the rings effectively.
Post by: Bryanj on July 31, 2021, 08:22:34 PM
Post by: MrDavo on August 09, 2021, 12:06:17 PM
I got the wife out to watch it start straight away and ..... nothing! Quick fuel and spark check - sparks yes, so I dropped a float bowl drain plug, and.... nothing!
It turns out that although there was a little petrol in the tank, the head wasn't enough to open the float valves. Jump in car with a petrol container, and put 5 litres of Super Unleaded (Because E5) in. Retry, instant start! A bit reluctant to go on all four pots, I may have fouled a plug with the oil I squirted into the bores when I assembled the top end. Anyway, a pop and a bang an suddenly its running clean and off the choke, so grabbed my helmet and went for a 13 mile test, before the heavens opened again, I got back just in time.
No smoke, running clean and the plugs looked Ok. Its a lot easier to ride now I'm not watching the tacho like a hawk - not thrashing it but riding normally, as recommended by the engineer that measured my bore clearance, as well as people on here.
After leaving her overnight to cool down, the oil was at its normal level, and I recheked the torque on the head bolts. Outers and inners didn't move, the pairs between pots 1 and 2, and on the other side between 3 and 4, all took about 1/3 of a turn. Some dry weather to get some miles done would be a help, she's still too shiny to take out on a filthy day, not a good state of affairs I know, but better than my mate's idea that I should buy a van to take it around in, like he does with his show bikes. ! I'd rather sell it than do that.
Post by: Bryanj on August 09, 2021, 12:40:59 PM
Post by: MrDavo on August 10, 2021, 07:11:38 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/1zPcJZFM/IMG-5420.jpg)
Basically, the bike is running perfectly, very smooth, mechanically quiet, nice tickover etc, until it isn't! :( Once on each ride, while running at speed, I suddenly lose a lot of power, but it doesn't cut out altogether. I suspect its running on two cylinders, certainly not four. Limping along, yesterday to get off the motorway, today to get off Saddleworth Moor, the missing pots slowly come back, until it all runs normally again. Then it's as if it never happened.
I haven't investigated yet, but my theories are:
!) Overheating, due to the engine still being tight, though I don't see why that would be sudden, I'd expect it to start running rough long before the sudden loss of power
2) Loose connection somewhere between coils and points or coils and power. That would lose two pots at once, but again I don't see how it would fix itself, electrics usually work or they don't. alternatively it could be a bad coil, that gets hot and gives up for a while until it cools.
3) Fuel. It acts as if its going onto reserve, as the power loss is sudden. There could be crud in there but the filters in the tap are clear. Alternatively possibly the cheap pattern fuel tap doesn't have a fantastic flow rate, maybe it's enough, or maybe it gets overwhelmed and the fuel levels in the float chambers drop until it won't run right. That could possibly fix itself as I go slow on low power, until the bowls fill up again enough to run normally. I don't want a Pingle tap as they look wrong and cost the earth, but I'd try it if I could rule out 1) and 2).
I'd be interested if anyone has informed comment on my problem.
Post by: K2-K6 on August 10, 2021, 07:26:46 PM
The fuel starvation view. Years ago looked at a friend's mother's Hilman Hunter that would run all day at constant 45 mph but anything significantly over as a constant it would gradually run into missing then slowing further until limping, apon which state it would slowly recover. Took ages to find but was a fuel tank that had internal painting coming away in long thin pieces that had been pulled into the feed line making a long slow restriction.
These will run about 3 to 5 miles on float bowl alone at gentle around town pace so would take a while to deplete before that buffer would show in running. It's certainly a possibility the tap may not have sufficient flow to give these symptoms.
If you just rode at 30 mph would you see the problem?
Post by: MrDavo on August 10, 2021, 07:40:04 PM
Quote
If you just rode at 30 mph would you see the problem?
I doubt it but I'm not doing 30 on the M60 unless the traffic is bad. As with all intermittent faults you don't know that it's not fixed until it happens. Certainly I've had no problem around town, both times I was doing around 70mph. In my earlier attempt to run in by babying it (and glazing the bores) it never happened.
I suspect the fuel flow, it does act rather like that Hillman Hunter. When I drained the tank I lost patience with the pathetic flow through the tap and turned the tank upside down! I've seen a dual outlet Pingle to suit the Z1 on eBay, but its in France. I'm about to learn what happens with Eu imports post #@%$ I think. Most people have problems with cheap £20 Chinese taps leaking. Mine is a better copy from Z Power by PMC but I'm starting to think that's the problem. Un nackered genuine ones are almost unobtainable, they wear inside where the repair kits don't, they are just O rings.
Post by: royhall on August 10, 2021, 07:56:04 PM
Post by: philward on August 10, 2021, 08:12:05 PM
Post by: MrDavo on August 10, 2021, 11:46:33 PM
At speed then, 1 and 2 have an adequate fuel supply, but the float levels on 3 and 4 will drop until they are too low to function, as the supply isn’t keeping up with the demand. It probably also explains why those two plugs look like they are running weak.
It’s not the cap vent as this happened with the cap open. Brace yourself wallet, we’re going for a Pingel.
Post by: kevski on August 11, 2021, 12:59:22 PM
Post by: MrDavo on August 11, 2021, 05:42:19 PM
I just want my Zed to be right, and get on with enjoying it.
Post by: MrDavo on August 16, 2021, 04:20:18 PM
I was very concerned when the side panel didn't fit, the outlet blocks and handle were in the way. some trial and error found one (and only one) position where you can slot the panel in behind the tap and not foul it. Later I watched a Johnny's Vintage Motorcycles YouTube video that showed me just this trick! Here it is mounted with just a little black gaffa tape on the corner of the panel to protect the paint from accidents.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Zn4jD4R8/IMG-5455.jpg)
Saturday I went out and put some more miles on the bike, no dramas but I did get wet. Sunday I walked into the garage to be met with a smell of petrol! >:(
It turns out that there are two types of PTFE tape in this world, and the white one I used, from the roll that has been in my toolbox forever, is what plumbers use to seal against water. That has turned to jelly, and I'm almost certain is the cause of my leak. I have just got back from Toolstation, where I bought a roll of the yellow version, which is for gas and is apparently fuel resistant.
Post by: MrDavo on January 07, 2022, 01:07:50 PM
Back in September I took her down to the local BMPS annual show, a few years ago my CB750 won Best Japanese Bike there, the Kawasaki went one better and won 'Best in Show'! :D I'm now retiring her from shows, while I have a 100% record - entered one, won one.
(https://i.postimg.cc/VLFx9xxX/IMG_5481.jpg)
After my teething troubles got sorted, I did another 500 miles and she now runs perfectly. My only concern is that, being well fast despite her age, when I open her up and actually hit the throttle stops, things quickly get scary. maybe it's just me getting old, but maybe it's just because that's how Kawasakis are - my only ride on a 500 H1 two stroke triple nearly ended in disaster with the bike vertical when I hit the power band with W.O.T.
However the garage is now full, and there is no room for a 'next project', so something needs to go. The HD is kept for holiday use, the CL450 is my runaround and the one bike I may keep forever, so the Z1A may be the one that goes. Plus the funds will see right for the next project, I enjoy putting bikes back on the road again, more than I actually need another one. I'm not sure what comes next, only nothing I have to kickstart, I'm through doing that.
PM me if you are interested, however it will be suitably uncheap. However, if I still have her for the Crich show in the summer, I'll stick her in the Z1OC anniversary lineup.
Post by: royhall on January 07, 2022, 02:34:02 PM
Post by: Spitfire on January 07, 2022, 04:02:39 PM
Cheers
Dennis