Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB350/400 => Topic started by: hondatri on July 01, 2014, 04:25:55 PM
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Me again guys have not got near clutch yet now I have found another problem. I went on a charity run a few months ago we were advised to ride with headlights on after 28 miles my Battery was dead I Charged it up and it seemed ok until I put headlight on. I took battery out yesterday and found that water level was near bottom I topped it up with distilled water and charged it up. I left it disconnected overnight and this am voltage was 12.3v I went for a run of 15 miles and when I got back Batt was 11.94. I connected an ammeter in series with Pos lead and got following Readings. Idle 0A 2K=2A 3K=4A and 4K= 6A. When Headlight put on Charge was 0A at all revs. Reconnected Battery and got following Voltages. Idle=11.64, 2K=12.08, 3K=12.50 4K=12.80. With head light on the voltage never went over 11.75V. I have a Haynes Manual and am going to check Alternator out put I had a look at voltage reg. and cleaned contacts it is the non adjustable one. Has anyone got any ideas as to what I should look out for.Should I get a new Battery first.
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Corroded connectors or grounds are the favourate there , also voltage drop on the black lead at the regulator
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Thanks Bryanj I had Reg off to see if it was adjustable and I cleaned th three connectors and put some WD40 on them. I will chase up circuit and do the same with all connectors. Do you know where the Main Earth point is and do you think I should replace Battery due to going low on water and refilling.
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...found these pages from a '400 manual if it helps...
Slightly confused, as the battery sounds like its being overcharged ('water' disappearing)... and yet from your description its definitely being undercharged (voltage should be around the 15v area during running)
Given that you're not achieving 15v, and assuming all connections / loom good... then I'd suspect the Voltage regulator. Hopefully the attached pages / your Haynes will confirm or otherwise.
Has the bike been 'upgraded' with respect to lights? I think the original head was a 50/35W lamp.
If there is any doubt as to the age / condition of your battery then, yes, perhaps you should change it.
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I appreciate that info. Does anyone know what the AC voltage from alternator should be. Thanks Again. I am going for a new Battery first.
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Hondatri, You say that the battery was nearly empty. This indicates a overcharging problem and then you filled it with distilled water. Distilled water should only be used as a top-up. If you filled it up again with distilled water it should not fully charge. When a battery is that drained you should fill it with battery acid.
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NOOOOOOO no matter how empty(unless spilled out) you should onl use distilled water as water vapour is all that has gone leaving super concentrated acid, having said that a tired battery will gass excesssively and empty so a new one is probably a good idea. From experience pay the extra and spring for a Yuasa not a cheepie ALSO the need to be trickle charged for a day before fitting, not doing so shortens the life remarkably
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Bryan, i had a over charging problem on a GSX-R and when i filled it up with distilled water it would not take a charge. Emptied and filled it up with new acid and it took a full charge.
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I rest my case ready rubs again
Cheers
Bitsa
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Bitsa, Go back down the pub ;D
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Trigger that goes against all practice and theories, but then you did say EMPTIED and refiled which is way better than just top up
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Hi Guys Like the Banter.Seriously I am going to go through the wiring and replace the Battery and Fingers crossed All will be ok. I wont get near it until next week so I will keep posted. Thanks to all.
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Did not get near bike due to other problems but I have a more serious problem Put ammeter in line with Pos lead to battery again and when I turned on the Ign the ammeter wett to full discharge (Fully left) came back to show a charge when engine started then lights on went a little to left. I will have to go over all systems or if any other suggestions I would appreciate.
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Hi again Hondatri.
You really need a multi meter with a 10A scale for this... most meters we guys tend to use don't go up this high.
And before you waste any time on the below, heed Bryan's basic advice of ensuring ALL electrical connections clean & sound... this to include all the various EARTHs.
And if your battery's health is in doubt... replace it.
We need a little more info here..specifically the Ampere scale you selected in the above post. Ie, if the needle went full left (discharge) at a 1A scale... well fine, but at a 10A scale... er, problems.
With the ignition coils de-energised, ie the kill switch OFF, the only load @ ignition ON ought to be the generator field at around 1.6A. Significantly more than this (assuming all lights off etc) should be cause for investigation.
Suggest: Connect your meter in series with the battery, and via the kick start, start the engine. (If you use the elect start you'll pass 120A through your meter & frazzle it ie DON'T use the elect start)
Give the bike a few mins to electrically settle down... (lights OFF)
Then check the ammeter... iaw the 'charging characteristics' table in the first document I posted above, ie lights On & Off @ the various RPM ranges. Make a note... and report back to the forum, somebody may recognise the symptom and give you the benefit of their experience.
If a significant discharge is apparent, try pulling / replacing the bikes fuses one by one. and if a significant (+ve) change suddenly takes place... well you've found the problem circuit.
If no luck with any of the above suggest you stop bench test each component of the bike's charging circuit ie test each component in isolation / iaw the manual,
ie generator windings, rectifier check, regulator check. The specs can be found in the bike's manual... if needed I'll post the pages.
Simon
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Thanks for Post. The ammeter I am using is a Millar Motorcycle Ammeter Charge/Discharge 8 amps. It is deflecting to full discharge.I will get to bike tomorrow and hope I will find the Problem.
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Had a quick check on Bike. Ignition on Shows Full discharge, I pulled all fuses except Power Fuse No Difference still full discharge, Turned Kill switch off and needle went to 4amp discharge. Having a go at wiring Tomorrow.
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Good luck today finding that gremlin.
4A does sound a little on the high side... I'm sorry I can't check against my bike as not near it.
Before you start your testing, simply try pulling the BLACK feed off the regulator, to see if the current drops further, it ought to... In fact it ought to go to zero as (assuming coils off / lights off) there should be no live circuits in the bike at this point. If a significant current drain still exists.. it is likely a loom fault.
On page # 1 of this thread I posted the regulator test. I'd suggest this is your next step.
You might also check the continuity of the generator field coil.. (WHITE / GREEN leads) ... it should be 4.6 - 5 ohms according to my book.
Work carefully... damage is possible... eg don't disconnect t the RED/ WHITE whilst engine running. If you haven't a good set of notes (Haynes etc) I'd suggest you get one first.
Cheers...
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... just one further thought 'TRI, particularly if a current drain continues after you've disconnected the regulator...
If the rectifier is u/s, it is possible that battery current will 'reverser flow' through it and down to earth. In the below pic I've illustrated what I mean... eg the lowers most bridge has failed. On this page is the method of checking / testing this component,
Cheers,
Simon
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I took the tank off the bike and located where all the Power inline connectors. I disconnected all the supply wires from the Power supply (Blk/Wh) then cleaned them and reconnected one by one until I found the Culprit. The Previous owner had fitted a Boyer Bransden :)ignition to it. I ran a wire direct from the power supply connector and all was well. I did not investigate further I fitted a wire permantely from Blk/White supply to the Coils and BB unit all looks good now Ign on -2amps running up to 5k and Amps increase to 4A. Looking at all the corroded connectors My next job is to remove all and Solder them. Thanks to all who helped especially Lobo and Bryan.
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Great... elects can be a pain / very time consuming.
Personally, a little unsure of 'soldering' all connections... this will drive you nuts down the track. Eg today's troubleshooting would have been so much harder. Wherever possible I'd recommend you stick to standard... slthough the OEM sized bullet connectors are indeed difficult to source.
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Thanks Lobo for all your information and Diagrams which I have now filed hoping I dond need them again. You made an Old man Happy (80 yo} and still in the saddle Bike only.
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Hi again,
Just to be sure I'm reading it right... your kill switch is still part of the circuit & able to cut off the engine? Hope so, otherwise potentially dangerous, presume you've checked this.
V.impressed @ the 80 yo bit! You've 25yrs on me... can only hope I'm still enjoying my Hondas that far down the track!
Cheers,
Simon
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I was impressed too. I must start an age thread "Add your age + your bike".
There's one been going on the US site for years, although they do seem to have a lot of members who are younger than their bike!
The oldest I know of is John Baker from Coventry (85). Goes by the name Old_biker. He's a member here but hasn't logged in for ages.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
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Thanks Lobo Yep the Kill switch still in circuit. The bike now seems fine. I intend to attack the Timing Chain and Guides over the winter so I may be looking for info then. Thanks for all the info I gave my 2 Sons my Old triumphs a 1971 T100 and a 63 T21 with full bathtub and they presented me with a 2001Suzuki GS500E.
But I prefer riding the 400/4.