Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB350/400 => Topic started by: Johndoc on April 04, 2015, 09:22:34 PM
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Hi everyone, I am changing my status from lurker to active member. The reason for the lurking was that I was in negotiation for my CB400 and did not want to say anything until I was sure it was mine! I finally sealed the deal and brought her home last night on my trailer. The previous owner had it for 20 years and most of that time was spent restoring it in his front room. At present it is a non runner, I think the coils/ht leads are to blame. I also have plans to change a few things like the exhaust. I am looking forward to sorting the wee thing out and getting her on the road. I was also given three boxes of spares with the bike, have not gone through it all yet so not sure what is there exactly.
<a href="http://s156.photobucket.com/user/johndoc90/media/IMG_2577_zpsppu9d6eg.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t19/johndoc90/IMG_2577_zpsppu9d6eg.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_2577_zpsppu9d6eg.jpg"/>[/url]
Hope the link works, was not able to attach a photo
(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t19/johndoc90/IMG_2577_zpsppu9d6eg.jpg)
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Looks good to me, nice early example.
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Welcome always liked the 400 I may have to get one. 8)
Mick
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Hi, welcome.
Looking nice should be a quick job to get it on the road.
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Looks a nice example.... the kind you can ride & restore to original (if that's what you want) at the same time. Perfect.
Welcome from me too,
Simon.
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I edited your post John.
From Photobucket, you need to copy the "Direct" link and paste it between the img tags when you click on the "Insert Image" icon above (the one ont the left with what looks like a tiny Mona Lisa on it)
Steve
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Looks good just some tidying up to do
Cheers
Bitsa
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Looks great and not much work needed - welcome to the forum - you'll get great help from the guys on here
Phil
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Looks good, what are the symptoms? Don't say that family of yellow people on TV. There's a lot of us on the forum that know these bikes inside out so don't struggle when you don't have to.
Where do you live by the way?
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Thanks everyone, what a really nice welcome from you all. Mike two of the ht leads seam to be dead, the coils are one of the few items not replaced on the bike, I have ordered two "universal" coils and the correct NGK caps. I suspect that the carbs will also need setting up. No doubt I will be seeking the advice of you experts on this model! Steve, thanks for advice re photobucket, I attach another couple of pics, hope it is right this time!
(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t19/johndoc90/IMG_2581_zpsypvby9lx.jpg)(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t19/johndoc90/IMG_2576_zpss9oyels6.jpg)
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Oh forgot to say I am based in Kilsyth (a few miles north of Glasgow) and also wanted to ask if I need special bolts for the headlamp to fit the little round reflectors?
Thanks again
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Yes, you need proper bolts for the headlight if you want to fit reflectors. People often ask ridiculous amounts for them on e bay, but D.S.S. has had exact replicas made and they are reasonably priced:))
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Make sure the feed from the points is OK (that's the yellow and blue wires) check by swapping the yellow and blue over and see if the dud coil starts working.
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The way the carbs are sitting dont look right to me.The rears look like they need lifting up or is it the photo misleading?
Best of luck
Bitsa
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Me too, I think the air inlet box might be on upside down. Might be worth a quick check. Welcome to the forum!
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Agree they look leant back to me but the airbox is the right way up, at least. The air filter connection is off-centre so it would be tricky to it wrong.
Welcome. Nice bike!
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Me too, I think the air inlet box might be on upside down. Might be worth a quick check. Welcome to the forum!
Good spot ;D
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Thanks Bitsa and Pday, yes it is possible, I am going to take the carbs off to set the float heights anyway. Can anyone tell me if this is as straight forward as it seems?
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Thanks Bitsa and Pday, yes it is possible that they are not sitting right, was going to take the carbs off anyway to check/set the float heights. Is this as straight forward as it seems?
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I'm with Tom.... the Airbox inlet is off centre... surely it'd be impossible to line it up if upside-down?
Either the airbox is not fitted or a modified one has been added?
A mystery Johndoc... put us out of our miseries!
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Johndoc, you will get used to us 400F owners being very precise about everything. There's nothing wrong with this behaviour I must stress. Nothing wrong at all. ;)
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Tom... meant to ask... is it 2.5 or 3.5 turns on the clutch adjuster.. it's just doing my head in. Oh, and the Parakeet... mine's 40 parts yellow to 3 parts cream.... should it be 41 parts yellow / 2 cream. And the decals... they're 1/2 cm too short.
Aaargh...
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Thanks Bitsa and Pday, yes it is possible that they are not sitting right, was going to take the carbs off anyway to check/set the float heights. Is this as straight forward as it seems?
Hi and welcome.
I have had the carbs off my 400 recently and fitted all new jets etc and had to re set float heights, it was simple enough to do with carbs standing 'end on'. As advised by this lovely lot on here, I checked the heights about 10 times before putting carbs back together. Started her up 2 days ago, 2nd push of the button. No leaks from bowls and only minor adjustments needed on mixture screws. I was well impressed with myself ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Johndoc, you will get used to us 400F owners being very precise about everything. There's nothing wrong with this behaviour I must stress. Nothing wrong at all. ;)
Tom, as a trained Nurse I feel there is a lot wrong with this type of behaviour, but hey, as long as us 400 owner have fun, who cares ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Thanks Bitsa and Pday, yes it is possible that they are not sitting right, was going to take the carbs off anyway to check/set the float heights. Is this as straight forward as it seems?
Hi and welcome.
I have had the carbs off my 400 recently and fitted all new jets etc and had to re set float heights, it was simple enough to do with carbs standing 'end on'. As advised by this lovely lot on here, I checked the heights about 10 times before putting carbs back together. Started her up 2 days ago, 2nd push of the button. No leaks from bowls and only minor adjustments needed on mixture screws. I was well impressed with myself ;D ;D ;D ;D
Only 10 times ;D ;D ;D
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::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) OK, 20 times but i did not want to appear too obsessive ;D ;D ;D
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What do you mean, obsessive??
Great result on the carbs :) ;D
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Thanks guys, really good to know you are there and I can check things through with you. An electrician friend checked the coils, both are actually ok, cylinder 1 and 2 is not firing, it looks like it is the HT leads that are dodgy, they have the old trick of silicon around the joints and they feel quite brittle. I assume the airbox if fitted as there is an air filter visible from the cover? The guy who owned this bike had it in his front room for 20 years! He treated it like a giant airfix kit, saving up for the next part. (I have a folder full of DS receipts) He done a fantastic job of the cosmetics but admitted himself that he was not so hot at tuning (could not really start the engine three floors up in his flat anyway!) and he was not keen on riding the bike either. I am thinking, do the coils, set up the carbs and then assess things from there.
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So the 400F went into the lift then?? :P
The airbox under the seat, yes. Remove the plastic cover and the filter is inside, held against the oval into the manifold by a "spring" which you just pull out.
Carb attitude on your bike is a mystery.
Cylinders 1 and 2 don't share ignition components: 1,4; 2,3
Always interesting to see a new bike and how it gets worked on :)
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I will take some more photos of the carbs tomorrow and see if it makes any more sense to anyone. I know all the inlet rubbers etc were changed, could it be they are just not lined up correctly? Yes he brought it down in the lift, I have no idea how he done that, I saw the bike in the communal garage area. Also DS don't seem to have the headlight bolts, was wondering if these could be made in lathe or if there is another source for them. Oh just a though, a photograph of how they look would be appreciated as they might even be among the spares I have in those three boxes!
Thanks again
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I binned the Honda coils because they cut out in the rain. I put Dyna 5 ohm coils on and the bike hasn't missed a beat since.
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Those sagging carbs... given what a b**tch of a job it is to insert the Airbox - Manifold connector... I'm now thinking perhaps it hasn't been done... ie the carbs are simply sagging under their own weight & you'll find that connector in your Alladin's box of bits.
That reflector stay...# 90120-377-000... it's this part... and despite the ad is also for the 400F
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-OEM-HONDA-BOLT-HEADLIGHT-STAY-CB500-CB550-CB750-GL1000-CB400-90120-377-000-/171193028988
aah.. just found this.... Wemoto are generally pretty good / quick. (tho' you're gonna have to dig deep)
http://www.wemoto.com/parts/picture/ds-90120377000p/
Simon
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Did have some of those head light stays but, a female member had those of me. Looks as your fuel tap needs attention, some one has pumped it full of sealant. That may lead to sealant in the fuel line and maybe some has made its way into the carbs.
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.... ya don't think it's simply overspray Trig?
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Thanks guys, this is great stuff for me to look at and to think about. I will take the carbs off and give them a check over, I know they have had new jets fitted. Looking at those headlight bolts (Wemoto out of stock) I am sure something could be made, will speak to an engineering friend to sus this out. Does anyone know off hand what thread size the reflector screw is?
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M6 x 12
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Don't think the headlamp holding bolts are M6
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Those sagging carbs... given what a b**tch of a job it is to insert the Airbox - Manifold connector... I'm now thinking perhaps it hasn't been done... ie the carbs are simply sagging under their own weight & you'll find that connector in your Alladin's box of bits.
Having looked at the shape of a spare inlet manifold this afternoon I agree it can't be fitted upside down, it is just sitting very low in the frame. As Lobo says it looks as if it is not supported at the back.
cheers
Paul
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Did have some of those head light stays but, a female member had those of me. Looks as your fuel tap needs attention, some one has pumped it full of sealant. That may lead to sealant in the fuel line and maybe some has made its way into the carbs.
Yes Graham, thank you very much for those stays, oh and the reflectors. I thought you said they would be supplied and fitted for the 99p I had to pay you.........including postage ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :-* :-*
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The headlamp bolts are M10 X 1 and the internal thread for the reflectors are M6 x 1. Hope that helps.
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Thanks Mike, if I don't have them in my boxes I will have a go at tapping a M12 bolt and let you know how it goes!
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Are you going to reduce the M12 thread down to M10 X 1 then? That should work ok as you won't really see the head of the bolt behind tthe reflector.
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Re the reflector bolts, have you tried Steve Cooper at 400fourbits?
http://www.400fourbits.co.uk/
http://s215.photobucket.com/user/cooper_man2/media/1109_PARTS_LEFT/1109-118-2.jpg.html
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According to his website, he's got some.
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Just emailed him, showing some on his site right enough, this forum is fab!
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Hi guys, wondering if anyone can help me? Getting back to the running of this bike, I ordered the "universal" coils for DS, it looks like the wiring is simple but mounting them will require modification which I did not expect, the brackets are shorter. Does anyone have experience with these and any tips on fitting them? Looking further at the carbs I can see that the the rubber from the air box part is not seated properly, so further investigation required. I don't think this bike has ran for about 20 years so I am not sure what to expect. I will try new coils, caps, plugs points and condesors and see where it goes from there. Any further tips or advice appreciated.
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The connection between the airbox and the "manifold" is an oval metal tube. At the manifold a large clip secures it. At the airbox it is fitted inside a large grommet that must be popped into the airbox orifice. Part 10 here:
http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cb400f-england_model14639/partslist/F01-3.html#results
Here's how I get the bottom part in:
http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,4880.msg22764.html#msg22764
Some silicon grease to make it all a bit easier.
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Thanks Tom, that is really helpful, I will be tacking this soon, that looks like a good tip for getting it done. Lobo, the connector is on OK, but not the clip, I did find the clip in my boxes so it will go on. I made some "L" brackets to fit the universal coils to the original fittings on the bike, actually looks quite good :) will post a pic of this if it is helpful to anyone fitting these.
Thanks again everyone, will keep you posted on how it goes.
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Bike is running! But this is with good and bad news. The good is that the engine is reving freely with no rattles or rumles and the exhaust seems clear and healthy. Not so good is it is sounding rough on tiockover, though I think this is just the carbs being out of balance, a bigger problem is that there is an oil leak from the sump, on closer inspection I found one of the studs are stripped. looking at it I think it would be possible to remove the sump and helicoil a new thread without removing the engine, maybe one of you experienced guys could confirm this for me? If the engine needs to come out then thats OK, will just factor in the time for it.
Have to say that despite this I am so happy to hear it running and really looking forward to getting it on the road!
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It can be done by laying the bike on it's side. Remove tank first obviously.
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Hi Johndoc,
Great to have another 400F on the mend...
Sorry, rather late in the day, but I ordered those DSS coils & don't remember too much of an issue at all... did you check the boxes for additional mounting hardware... I'm sure I remember some.
The rattle at idle... does indeed seem to be a 400F thing, and a certain amount seems generally accepted as 'normal'. There are a few areas though to look at; I should bloody know having had my engine professionally rebuilt... and returned with said rattle. Grrrr....
Carb balancing the first stop, as you say.
Cam chain... worn or out of adjustment. (Mine was renewed... still rattled)
Primary drive chain worn / stretched (mine was checked against a new one & returned as ok)
Primary drive rubber dampers (cushs) - 8 of 'em, part #23114-323-000 (not replaced on my bike - regret! But I do now have new ones just waiting for the next strip down!)
Clutch.... my main culprit. Renewed springs, plates... better, replaced cushs (meant to be a non-serviceable item in this respect)..... far, far better. In my case, this was the culprit.
So, good luck, a lot to check, but do consider all of the above.
..... & if you've got the patience of Jobe read this thread..
http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,4353.msg18997.html#msg18997
Simon.
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Lobo, yes laying the bike down did cross my mind, that's how I will do it! Mike, great tips on what to look for on rough idle, will be doing the carbs in the next day or so, just hoping that does it. To be honest I am not that bothered if it needs more work, the bike is good enough to warrant that, if it runs well just now I will run it and may strip it in the winter to check things thoroughly. There was nothing I noticed to fit the coils but it was easy enough to make a couple of brackets. Thanks again