Post by: ogre on May 02, 2023, 11:30:09 AM
Post by: JamesH on May 02, 2023, 11:55:31 AM
Just to double check - does the bike have a replacement frame? Is the stamped VIN number visible on the LHS of the headstock. Only reason I ask is because it’s quite unusual for a K0 to have the ‘hole’ on the upper frame plate under the seat (see circled below).
Be worth establishing the frame provenance before you market the bike too widely, as I’m probably not the only person who would spot / ask this (also has K1 fork lowers, front hub and brake disc, which some might spot).
Personally I’d say the price is spot on for the work / effort you’ve put in, especially with genuine the HM300’s and beautiful red foam seat etc..
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230502/d6715def57411030ca53a4ee2ca44324.jpg)
Post by: ogre on May 02, 2023, 12:09:47 PM
Post by: JamesH on May 02, 2023, 12:12:27 PM
hi james thanks for the info but wasn't the k0 or cb750 the transition bike that had various parts from the late 69 to before k1 came out and i will have a look at the frame tonight.cheersYeah technically we should be calling the bikes that fall between Sandcast and K1 ‘CB750K’, but the general ‘norm’ these days is to refer to them as K0’s (although you’re right, technically it’s the wrong term).
And please don’t think I’m trying to put your bike down or be a ‘Debbie downer’ - it’s just better to forearmed and forewarned in my opinion.
Good luck with the sale - looks like a nice bike
Post by: Johnny4428 on May 02, 2023, 01:36:42 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on May 02, 2023, 01:43:48 PM
the price look very fair to me.
Best of good fortune with the sale there will be folk our there looking for a nice 750.
..
Post by: ogre on May 02, 2023, 02:02:04 PM
Post by: royhall on May 02, 2023, 04:06:06 PM
Post by: ogre on May 02, 2023, 04:39:00 PM
Post by: royhall on May 02, 2023, 05:13:05 PM
Post by: Spitfire on May 02, 2023, 07:33:21 PM
Cheers
Dennis
Post by: ogre on May 02, 2023, 08:42:30 PM
Post by: philward on May 02, 2023, 10:15:05 PM
Post by: Toko_Jo on May 04, 2023, 09:49:31 AM
Thanks the frame is stamped l know the bloke was the only owner after it was imported so whether the frame was replaced in the usa and stamped or its correct cos it is a very late k0 but dunno.
Check the stamping fonts closely and see if they accurately match these. One thing to look for are the distinctive little gaps in the fonts and also the distinctive 'B' font in CB.
[attachimg=1]
Post by: ogre on May 04, 2023, 01:46:36 PM
Post by: Nurse Julie on May 04, 2023, 02:58:07 PM
Unless you can find out the definitive history, whether the swap happened in USA in early days, and why, or more recently in UK, and why, it's really got to be sold as a bitsa.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on May 04, 2023, 03:03:53 PM
The odd B is on my 400 & 500 engine numbers on the upper crankcases - my 400 has the original chassis plate and its a normal printed B on the plate.
Post by: JamesH on May 04, 2023, 03:34:43 PM
thanks for that.the plot thickens looking at pic i took of stampings it looks like they are not original factory.so need help guys what i do know it has never been restored cos it was a faded rusty tatty mess when i bought it.it was imported from usa probably sunny state cos it wasnt rotten rusty.i certainly would have checked the numbers to the v5.although the guy i bought it off seemed a really nice bloke he either didnt know or didnt tell me they were not original.so is it possible the frame was changed under warranty from a dealer which was a k1 frame cos its a late k0 and they stamped it or there was some stealing going on i put it like that cos the engine,carbs, airbox,clocks,seat,side panels etc are k0 as is the engine numbers seems a strange way round.james said they are k1 forks and hub could they have gone on a late k0 i dunno.obviously i'm a bit pi**ed off, i don't really know what it is.certainly don't want to sell it someone telling them one thing and its another.and what do you think value wise cos obviously theres a lot of money in it as your all aware. appreciate your help.
Trev - I'm feeling a bit guilty having raised this in the first place, so apologies and I know you're in a tricky spot.
From what I can see, the front fork lowers, front hub (tabs on chrome spedo drive plate are the giveaway) and front brake disc (doesn't have the square section on black boss reverse side closest to hub) are the bits that look K1. My instinct suggests it was probably rebuilt early in it's life in the US by a dealer, using a restamped factory replacement frame and new front end components that were available at the time. More than likely in the early 70's but who knows.
To make it a 'proper' matching numbers K0 you'd need to source a matching numbers K0 frame with data plate, fork lowers (the stanchions and internals will swap straight across) with correct profile, K0 brake disc, K0 speedo drive plate and chrome cover (the K1 hub will likely be the correct 'tall shoulder' hub) and then build it all into the replacement frame. Technically it should also have a single cut (rear) front fender. It's do-able, but a total pain in the arse given you probably just want a straight sale. It's an annoying situation & I can only sympathise.
Having said all of that above, there is still value in the bike - I guess you've just got to decide which path to take and price it accordingly if you do just want to sell as-is.
Post by: Toko_Jo on May 04, 2023, 04:14:16 PM
FWIW that strange shaped B is I understand it is only applicable to the engine number casing not the headstock stamp or plate if it has one.
The odd B is on my 400 & 500 engine numbers on the upper crankcases - my 400 has the original chassis plate and its a normal printed B on the plate.
Frame and engine fonts are identical Ted
Post by: JamesH on May 04, 2023, 04:22:19 PM
This is the VIN on the Sandcast frame I’ve just had blasted and am starting the build on. Note the weird BFWIW that strange shaped B is I understand it is only applicable to the engine number casing not the headstock stamp or plate if it has one.
The odd B is on my 400 & 500 engine numbers on the upper crankcases - my 400 has the original chassis plate and its a normal printed B on the plate.
Frame and engine fonts are identical Ted
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230504/16618655ed8229898321eaf2d99e97d3.png)
Post by: ogre on May 04, 2023, 05:36:25 PM
Post by: Bryanj on May 04, 2023, 05:36:48 PM
If it has all the correct numbers on the v5 it is a legitamate vehicle, posssibly not worth as much as a 100% from the factory bike but still a nice bike worth a good amount, its 50 yrs old and has had replacement parts
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on May 04, 2023, 06:22:18 PM
FWIW that strange shaped B is I understand it is only applicable to the engine number casing not the headstock stamp or plate if it has one.
The odd B is on my 400 & 500 engine numbers on the upper crankcases - my 400 has the original chassis plate and its a normal printed B on the plate.
Frame and engine fonts are identical Ted
So you are talking the direct stamp on the frame not the alloy frame plate when fitted. A bit of 50 years rusting could soon mess up the frame - either way a Honda frame would have the right B unless you are saying sand-cast frames were different?
Post by: JamesH on May 04, 2023, 07:06:45 PM
What Jo is saying is the stamps used on CB750 Sandcast, K0-K6 Frames and engines are the same font, height, dimensionally identical. I just used a Sandcast frame I have here to help visually explain. I’ve got plenty of other pictures somewhere showing the same ‘B’ on later K1-K6 frames. But don’t take my word for it - I’m sure other members will chime in here.FWIW that strange shaped B is I understand it is only applicable to the engine number casing not the headstock stamp or plate if it has one.
The odd B is on my 400 & 500 engine numbers on the upper crankcases - my 400 has the original chassis plate and its a normal printed B on the plate.
Frame and engine fonts are identical Ted
So you are talking the direct stamp on the frame not the alloy frame plate when fitted. A bit of 50 yes rusting could soon mess up the frame - either way a Honda frame would have the right B unless you are saying sand-cast frames were different?
Post by: Nurse Julie on May 04, 2023, 07:23:52 PM
Post by: Toko_Jo on May 04, 2023, 07:41:01 PM
Post by: Nurse Julie on May 04, 2023, 07:46:16 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on May 04, 2023, 08:16:49 PM
At £9500 it looks a great bike - why pay say £2-3k more for a frame that is probably older & rustier inside.
If it looks like a Duck, Quacks like a Duck - its a Duck I say.
Don't get me started on started on USA model v UK model they are all made in Japan - they are all imports too much talk trying to justify daft prices I think.
Not that you could ride one blindfold but who could tell the difference in the saddle - some wine buff probably eh! We all know what they are.
Post by: Toko_Jo on May 04, 2023, 08:27:26 PM
On the USA model CB SOHC/4's, I wonder where a dealer would have re stamped in the event of a re frame as the VIN tag is on the other side 🤔🤔🤔 Easy on UK and rest of world models as those models never had VIN tags.
Agreed .. I only mentioned it because I haven't seen many replacement frames but have seen two Honda twins with replacement frames with the stamping on the opposite side to normal... then I saw something online about stamping on opposite side. The two I saw were UK bikes and perhaps it was just a dealer error.
Post by: Johnny4428 on May 04, 2023, 08:41:09 PM
FWIW that strange shaped B is I understand it is only applicable to the engine number casing not the headstock stamp or plate if it has one.
The odd B is on my 400 & 500 engine numbers on the upper crankcases - my 400 has the original chassis plate and its a normal printed B on the plate.
Frame and engine fonts are identical Ted
I completely agree Ted. Ask what you want for it Trev, it’s then up to the buyer as to whether they are willing to commit. Especially for someone that wants a descent bike but is not a purist. You can still be upfront with the knowledge you have regarding the bike.
So you are talking the direct stamp on the frame not the alloy frame plate when fitted. A bit of 50 years rusting could soon mess up the frame - either way a Honda frame would have the right B unless you are saying sand-cast frames were different?
Post by: Toko_Jo on May 04, 2023, 08:53:22 PM
So after all this chatter about the shape of a letter B I personally do not think it alters the value of your bike one iota - I would sell it on the basis of what is recorded on the V5 & the bike itself.
At £9500 it looks a great bike - why pay say £2-3k more for a frame that is probably older & rustier inside.
If it looks like a Duck, Quacks like a Duck - its a Duck I say.
Don't get me started on started on USA model v UK model they are all made in Japan - they are all imports too much talk trying to justify daft prices I think.
Not that you could ride one blindfold but who could tell the difference in the saddle - some wine buff probably eh! We all know what they are.
So if it was a re- shelled 1960's Mini Cooper S without the original VIN plate would you be saying the same ...don't think so.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on May 04, 2023, 09:24:07 PM
The newer the shell the better - wind up windows heated rear screen what's not to like.
That said the BMW version is soooh much better.
Mk 2 rear lamps & grille sound.👍👍👍
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on May 04, 2023, 09:41:33 PM
Post by: Toko_Jo on May 05, 2023, 09:58:03 AM
That said K0, K1,K2, K3 am I wrong to think they were improvements along the way by Honda?
Depends how you define 'improvements'. The sandcast/K0 were the prettiest IMHO. Personally, I loved the look of the iconic Duck-tail K0 seat but there again it had dodgy foam blocks, which sag . K0/K1 HM300 pipes had a lovelier sound but more antisocial and the beautiful Candy Ruby Red and Candy Blue/Green colour schemes were both sadly dropped after K1 (Blue/green after K0 IIRC) . K0 painted airbox looked lovely but cracked badly.. later black air box was more practical but looks bland in comparison. Mark Paris's book (Hondaman) details a lot of the engine change 'improvements'. Whether the dodgy bigger valves with suspect guides plus PD carbs on the later models was an improvement, is doubtful engineering wise.
Post by: royhall on May 05, 2023, 10:06:21 AM
That said K0, K1,K2, K3 am I wrong to think they were improvements along the way by Honda?Not really Ted, just marketing really. People will always upgrade to the latest model. There were improvements along the way but mostly minor, and some years the only change was colour.
Post by: Nurse Julie on May 05, 2023, 01:33:39 PM
That said K0, K1,K2, K3 am I wrong to think they were improvements along the way by Honda?
Depends how you define 'improvements'. The sandcast/K0 were the prettiest IMHO. Personally, I loved the look of the iconic Duck-tail K0 seat but there again it had dodgy foam blocks, which sag . K0/K1 HM300 pipes had a lovelier sound but more antisocial and the beautiful Candy Ruby Red and Candy Blue/Green colour schemes were both sadly dropped after K1 (Blue/green after K0 IIRC) . K0 painted airbox looked lovely but cracked badly.. later black air box was more practical but looks bland in comparison. Mark Paris's book (Hondaman) details a lot of the engine change 'improvements'. Whether the dodgy bigger valves with suspect guides plus PD carbs on the later models was an improvement, is doubtful engineering wise.
The Candy Ruby Red was available in the UK and europe on the K2 which run up to 1975 and then we had the K6. The Candy Blue Green, was available on the K1 in the USA and Japan but not on the K1 for UK models.
Next time Mark Paris writes a book, he's agreed to my suggestion to put a note at the front saying his info is only relevant to USA models as it confuses the hell out of everyone in the rest of the world with non USA models.
Post by: Nurse Julie on May 06, 2023, 07:30:50 AM
That said K0, K1,K2, K3 am I wrong to think they were improvements along the way by Honda?Not really Ted, just marketing really. People will always upgrade to the latest model. There were improvements along the way but mostly minor, and some years the only change was colour.
I don't think it is minor between the K0 to K3 Roy.
Carbs are different, cables, clocks, top yoke, switch gear, seats, seat catch, oil tank, side panels, fuel tank, fuse box, wiring harness, ignition switch, head light brackets, engine cases, clutch baskets and plates, gear box, gear selector assembly, cylinder heads, barrels, oil jets and for the rest you will have to ask Trigger or James
Post by: ogre on May 06, 2023, 11:33:52 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on May 06, 2023, 11:48:40 AM
Don't take an out of scale financial hit you do not deserve stick to your guns it's a nice bike we all know the cost of restoration is disproportionate to end value - a buyer will see it for what it is a Pedigree even if it ain't KC Registered.
Post by: Johnny4428 on May 06, 2023, 12:01:05 PM
Post by: royhall on May 06, 2023, 02:30:27 PM
Sorry Julie I misread the article. I thought we were talking about K2 to end of production. Obviously huge changes between K0 and K1. My bad, should take more time to read the posts properly.That said K0, K1,K2, K3 am I wrong to think they were improvements along the way by Honda?Not really Ted, just marketing really. People will always upgrade to the latest model. There were improvements along the way but mostly minor, and some years the only change was colour.
I don't think it is minor between the K0 to K3 Roy.
Carbs are different, cables, clocks, top yoke, switch gear, seats, seat catch, oil tank, side panels, fuel tank, fuse box, wiring harness, ignition switch, head light brackets, engine cases, clutch baskets and plates, gear box, gear selector assembly, cylinder heads, barrels, oil jets and for the rest you will have to ask Trigger or James
Post by: SteveD CB500K0 on May 06, 2023, 03:38:42 PM
I have a mate with a Z1A. He has the same carb troubles as the rest of us.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk