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Messages - CB-500

Pages: [1] 2
1
CB500/550 / Re: Kick start and clutch operation
« on: July 20, 2023, 09:22:03 AM »
If you go back to the kick start a while later it is again stuck - However it appears to free off easier each time

A mate of a mate who builds race/competition engines mentioned that the engine assembly lube I have used is fine for my normal engine build but can be known for causing slight drag on components during the build process - All should be good once up and running with normal engine oil circulating

Thanks everyone for your help on trying to resolve

2
CB500/550 / Re: Kick start and clutch operation
« on: July 20, 2023, 07:24:39 AM »
After quite a few google searches by accident I came across a few posts on the sister forum where people have experienced the exact same problem with their 500 kick start - they also had the problem after a rebuild or if the engine had been sat on the bench partially stripped/built for a extended time

One post explained that they also were convinced everything was assembled correctly and decided to forget about the kickstart and just continue with the project - They found once their project was up and running they randomly decided to re-look at the kick start issue - However the kick start was working with no explanation

I looked at my engine again - concluded that everything was assembled correctly - So with the clutch fully fitted started lightly jolting the kick start - after quite a while I noticed the primary gear drive started jolting along with the clutch - at the same time as jolting the kick start I started manually turning the engine over - after quite a few turns everything appeared to free up and the kick start is now working as it should




3
CB500/550 / Re: Kick start and clutch operation
« on: July 18, 2023, 07:22:24 PM »
I see what your saying - When turning the engine over at the crank you also have the aid of the crank throwing weight

But with the issue I’ve found do you reckon I’m looking down the rights lines?

4
CB500/550 / Re: Kick start and clutch operation
« on: July 18, 2023, 07:13:27 PM »
Plugs out to ease compression

Bores oiled - Engine turns over nice

5
CB500/550 / Re: Kick start and clutch operation
« on: July 18, 2023, 05:33:40 PM »
Ok I’ll get the teeth counted and update

The clutch and drive gears are all the originals from when the kick start did work

6
CB500/550 / Re: Kick start and clutch operation
« on: July 18, 2023, 05:27:41 PM »
Quote from: Oddjob on July 18, 2023, 02:47:37 PM
Just to satisfy my curiosity can you count the number of teeth on both the primary drive sprocket and the back of the clutch, just to check they are compatible. The 500 and the 550 both use different number of teeth and I'm wondering if there is a mix and match going on.

I’ll try and count the number of teeth laters

The kick start worked before the engine was stripped so obviously something has gone a miss somewhere - But struggling to work out what

With the outer clutch housing fitted on the main shaft as per the previous photo - The transmission can be discounted as the outer clutch housing freely spins on the shaft (the inner clutch hub fits onto the main shaft splines to turn the transmission) - So trying to turn the outer clutch housing should just spin the primary gear drive and crank

This operation works when turning the crank and results in the outer clutch housing spinning anti-clockwise - but I can’t turn just the clutch housing the same direction (anticlockwise) to turn the primary gear and crank

7
CB500/550 / Re: Kick start and clutch operation
« on: July 18, 2023, 06:42:23 AM »
I know what you mean about the photo

Have double checked - The bearing is fully in and retaining plate is tight against the crankcase

8
CB500/550 / Re: Kick start and clutch operation
« on: July 17, 2023, 09:53:53 PM »
I was thinking down the same lines at first - but the idler gear for the starter motor in the top crankcase locks in the correct rotation and free wheels in other - So it appears the starter clutch hub is working as should

Never the less trying to turn the outer clutch housing anti-clockwise isn’t asking the drivetrain to do anything different then what it is already doing when I turn it at the crank

9
CB500/550 / Re: Kick start and clutch operation
« on: July 17, 2023, 09:00:47 PM »
Quote from: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on July 17, 2023, 08:53:14 PM
I'm mystified, be interesting to read the fix when it pops up.

Hahahaha me too!

10
CB500/550 / Re: Kick start and clutch operation
« on: July 17, 2023, 08:25:44 PM »
So with the clutch pressure plate, friction plates/discs and clutch centre hub removed this leaves just the clutch outer housing on the main shaft

Turn the engine over via the crank - this turns the primary drive gear clockwise which turns the clutch outer housing anti-clockwise

Being careful with two long screwdrivers I’m unable to turn just the outer clutch housing on its own the same way (anti-clockwise) in an effort to turn the engine over like the kick start would

Am I missing something?


11
CB500/550 / Re: Kick start and clutch operation
« on: July 17, 2023, 07:16:46 AM »
Quote from: Trigger on July 16, 2023, 08:53:19 PM
Quote from: CB-500 on July 16, 2023, 06:54:08 PM
Quote from: Trigger on July 16, 2023, 05:50:58 PM
You can not push a the clutch by hand. Just because the plates measure within spec, it does not mean they will work. Old clutch plates go hard over time  ;)

Looks like replacing the plates is something that will have to be done - would you recommend just friction plates or all plates including metal discs?

Would hard friction plates cause the kick start to lock?


The kick start would lock if not assembled correctly or the circlip has come off the end. Look in the sump for any parts that have come off. Always replace the end circlip on the kick shaft with a new one.

Agreed it would lock if not assembled correctly - However the kick start mechanism engages turns the gearbox which spins the centre clutch hub without issue and at the other end the engine turns the outer clutch housing
Once the clutch plates and pressure plate are bolted on then the kick start can’t turn the engine over - You can feel the kick start engage it’s as if there is something further down the line which the kick start is struggling to overcome

The kick start worked before the engine was stripped so obviously something has gone a miss somewhere - But struggling to work out what - As far as I’m aware all gone back together correctly at least that’s how it appears until the clutch is fully assembled

Later on with clutch plates and pressure plate removed I’ll try and wrench just the clutch outer housing round to see if I’m able to turn the engine over in the way the kick start would


12
CB500/550 / Re: Kick start and clutch operation
« on: July 16, 2023, 06:54:08 PM »
Quote from: Trigger on July 16, 2023, 05:50:58 PM
You can not push a the clutch by hand. Just because the plates measure within spec, it does not mean they will work. Old clutch plates go hard over time  ;)

Looks like replacing the plates is something that will have to be done - would you recommend just friction plates or all plates including metal discs?

Would hard friction plates cause the kick start to lock?


13
CB500/550 / Re: Kick start and clutch operation
« on: July 16, 2023, 05:35:57 PM »
Quote from: Bryanj on July 16, 2023, 05:02:35 PM
It comes to me that you do not have the thrust washer and thecollar the basket spins on assembled correctly, check against pictures in parts book and HONDA manual(available in Ashs dropbox).
Also how are yoy trying to move the clutch pushrod, you wont do it by hand

Thanks that clears up the clutch pushrod not moving - been trying to push by hand as have no lever or cable connected

I’ve been using the parts book downloaded from manuals.sohc4.net

I have the clutch assembled as follows - clutch outer housing (part #1) on mainshaft followed by clutch centre hub (part #2) followed by spacer (part#12) followed by circlip (part #16) clutch lifter (part #9) then inserted into the end of the mainshaft and pressure plate fitted on top

14
CB500/550 / Re: Kick start and clutch operation
« on: July 16, 2023, 04:11:36 PM »
With the clutch plates and pressure plate fitted without springs and screws the kick start turns the clutch centre hub - the plates are heard to slip as there is no pressure upon them to turn as one unit - once the clutch springs and screws are fitted the kick start is solid.

There is no drive chain fitted to rear wheel so out of interest I have attempted to work the kick start in each gear- kick start solid

Also with the clutch fully fitted and the kick start in a locked state I have manually turned the engine over - if you put pressure on the kick start lever whilst turning the engine the lever moves downward - I’m assuming this is another indication that everything is engaged

15
CB500/550 / Re: Kick start and clutch operation
« on: July 16, 2023, 03:15:37 PM »
Yes all gears can be engaged  - however engaging gears is best when the shafts are spun

Is that normally the case?

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