Post by: LetsRide on February 20, 2023, 12:31:05 PM
my CB400/4 master is very messy with paint lifting due to brake fluid leakage. It needs either to be stripped and repainted or replace with a aftermarket part for £46 (ish).
Has anybody stripped and repainted? What was the painting process and products used? For stripping, I guess I could just use more brake fluid ;D. Thanks in anticipation.
Post by: Laverdaroo on February 20, 2023, 12:51:31 PM
Oddjob did some a few weeks ago and looks the doo dah’s.
Have a look on his posts…..
By the time you’ve faffed about, been out, bought paint, prepped, buffered it up, prepped again, painted it etc etc, for 30quid or so you get a lovely nice refurbed item to bolt back on and means you can spend the time doing other bits that you’re getting round to.
Before you do anything though I’d take out the piston, spring and check for west as you’re already in it. A rebuild kit is only about 15 or so and readily available but makes sense to do it now. If you’re keen to keep the OE M/C on there I’d do that but appreciate that costs build up and it may be worth simply replacing with a new one and selling your old one one to recoup some costs.
Hope that helps a bit at least
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Post by: Oddjob on February 20, 2023, 01:25:14 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/PrhB7J32/IMG-3042.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CdPPBhVq)
Just look for a ceramic coater near you. https://www.high-pressure-services.co.uk/cerakote-ceramic-coatings/
Post by: Laverdaroo on February 20, 2023, 01:36:32 PM
Stop doing good stuff Ken, yer showing me up ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Post by: Oddjob on February 20, 2023, 01:48:07 PM
Trying a bit of their powder coating this time as well, dropped a rusty old seat pan off and a couple of hinge bars to be done in gloss black, we'll see how they turn out.
I also dropped off the Marzocchi AG Strada bodies to be done in satin black and the springs to be Cermakromed, they reckon it will resist cracking as the springs compress so giving it a try. When they come back I can finally assemble the rear dampers. Didn't fancy keeping them fire engine red, didn't go with the bikes colour scheme.
Post by: Laverdaroo on February 20, 2023, 02:24:56 PM
I sent the pipes up to Nick at Camcoat last week and hoping of good things after looking at your stuff, I did mention that youd been in and I asked if he remembered you and he chuckled and acknowledged your high expectations on finish and that it was a pleasure to do stuff for you. Spoke very highly of you.............which was cool.
He evidently doesnt know you I reckon ;D
Let us have a shufty at your bits when you get em back, I love finished parts back from outfits such as that, unwrapping newly coated parts is one of my favourite things as after all the hard work I get an enoromouse sense of satisfaction out of it. Yer know!
Daft innit? ;D
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on February 20, 2023, 04:14:17 PM
I have looked but cannot see a previous article on the forum. so....That a pain when leaking fluid damages paintwork.
my CB400/4 master is very messy with paint lifting due to brake fluid leakage. It needs either to be stripped and repainted or replace with a aftermarket part for £46 (ish).
Has anybody stripped and repainted? What was the painting process and products used? For stripping, I guess I could just use more brake fluid ;D. Thanks in anticipation.
One of the reasons I now use Silicone based brake fluid it does not strip paint though tbh I haven't tested it for that.
Post by: Seabeowner on February 20, 2023, 07:04:25 PM
I have looked but cannot see a previous article on the forum. so....The original finish would have been black anodizing. So they have already been refurbed.
my CB400/4 master is very messy with paint lifting due to brake fluid leakage. It needs either to be stripped and repainted or replace with a aftermarket part for £46 (ish).
Has anybody stripped and repainted? What was the painting process and products used? For stripping, I guess I could just use more brake fluid ;D. Thanks in anticipation.
Post by: Oddjob on February 20, 2023, 08:35:04 PM
Something along the lines of passivication like we do after zinc coating.
Post by: Sesman on February 20, 2023, 09:03:56 PM
Post by: Oddjob on February 20, 2023, 11:29:08 PM
Going again in 2 weeks so I can ask him to tell me the process again as I’ve forgotten what he said it was called.
Post by: Laverdaroo on February 21, 2023, 01:25:59 AM
If you were to spray it on first as a primary coat with a modlers spray gun to get the delivery and then laquer the lot afterwards once you've done the letters as required, it would technically be sealed but you'd have the polished metal underneath with a gold finish from the pigment coat under the laquer?
I'll report back when I've found it.........
Post by: Sesman on February 21, 2023, 08:11:08 AM
Post by: Lobo on February 21, 2023, 08:13:52 AM
Really liking Oddjob’s Clutch master …
Post by: K2-K6 on February 21, 2023, 08:41:27 AM
There's consideration as I understand it, anodised components are usually sized/toleranced in manufacturing to give finished size after treatment as it can change critical dimensions. Likely the bore and internal was masked during original manufacture to avoid this, else it has to be anodised then bored afterwards.
More recently in seeing good quality aluminium (known std in cycle downhill frame) the bearing bores were increaesd and attributed to pre treatment in metal removal prior to final process. The bearings had to be fully located in building afterwards by use of strong bearing fit adhesive. Not so much, but it was there and likely outside what a mc bore would take.
Post by: Oddjob on February 21, 2023, 10:38:21 AM
As far as I understand it anodising is a sort of dying of the surface which alters the molecular structure of the top surface layers. From what I’ve seen is quite resistant to fading, which certainly isn’t the case with these parts.
Post by: Johnny4428 on February 21, 2023, 10:58:42 AM
Post by: K2-K6 on February 21, 2023, 11:03:45 AM
Anodised finish is dye incorporated to give the colours available, many of those dye are not infinitely stable once applied. Long lasting, but not perfect by most means.
Anodising is itself controlled corrosion of metal and primarily just the surface, dyes added to give effect we see.
Genuinely good overview available on the wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anodizing to give better picture of how it's done.
Post by: Oddjob on February 21, 2023, 12:04:39 PM
I'm wondering, would it be possible to dust the mould of a part with paint dye, then pour the alloy in and thus dye the surface of the part? Just speculating.
I'm not saying the parts can't be anodised, I'm confused on how they can be if what I'm hearing is correct.
Post by: taysidedragon on February 21, 2023, 12:50:31 PM
In my experience Honda parts are better quality and last better than most other Japanese manufacturers, so the alloy quality is probably better. Tin hat on now, incoming from YamaKawaSuki fans!
Also the term Alloy refers to a mixture of metals, any metals. Stainless steel, chrome vanadium steel, brass, etc. are all alloys, not just aluminium.
Post by: K2-K6 on February 21, 2023, 01:43:43 PM
Their knowledge of metal in various components is not definitive though, just based on the rate it dissappears in their custody :)
Honda didn't make the mastercylinder though, but subbed out to contractors, the most likely of which would be aircraft manufacturing at that time who would certainly be familiar with metal finishing in critical component. Sochiro was after all an aircraft man in original training too. Believe the design may even be Girling and patented.
All aluminium base can be anodised though as I understand it, but with different settings etc. Aircraft manufacturing of hydraulic valving would be the most suspect supplier at a guess as their stuff far preceeded this brake.
Where I trained it was routinely used for very light treatment on casting, that ultimately for crack detection and casting integrity reasons.
Often global description is given particularly when it arrives to market. Billet just means they machine from a block as that's what raw stock is called. Has become a trendy label for missuse generally. That billet could have been next forged to give its form then machined and they no longer market as billet but machined from forged, thats not here in mc but generally. Mc is cast.
The original finish I'd only recognise as black onodised on all the examples I've seen, caps screwing on with a with characteristic anodised feel too.
Original maybe but maybe not repeatable with processing availability currently, that I can see.
Post by: K2-K6 on February 21, 2023, 01:57:56 PM
Brake caliper body is cast and then machined, in comparison to brake arm which appears forged then machined.
Casting not likely to withstand tensile load required when braking by pulling the arm, well not at that slim section it's made to.
Post by: Oddjob on February 21, 2023, 03:48:03 PM
Post by: Orcade-Ian on February 21, 2023, 04:21:23 PM
Having had such cracking results from Silver leaf Rub N Buff, I wonder what their Ebony stuff would come up like? I've not seen black. You would have to scotch the original faded anodic protection for a good key but at least you can re-apply it whenever necessary without too much trouble. Just a thought! For a tenner, I might give it a try!
Ian
Bummocks! It's metallic ebony! Back to't drawing board!
Post by: JamesH on February 21, 2023, 09:44:13 PM
I got the distinct impression that they didn't want to try as it may somehow contaminate their solution, if so I ain't really fault them as I'm betting it ain't cheap and if it's a big bath there's a lot of solution to replace just to see if it worked or not. I was willing to risk it but they weren't.Ken - are you able to share details of the outfit you use for the ceramic coating? That master cylinder looks awesome
Post by: AshimotoK0 on February 21, 2023, 10:17:31 PM
From what I remember from the Sandcastonly site, for original finish, you need to find an anodizer who does anodizing using chromate process rather than sulphuric acid based.
A quick dip in strong and hot caustic soda removes the old anodizing in seconds BTW.
I have had decent results using a combination of methods described by ChrisR /John Wyatt and UK Pete. Strip old anodizing using hot caustic soda. Paint with Klostermanns black acid-etch primer then finish with PJ1 satin black. Then bake at 155 Deg C for about an hour and finally buff with a bit of Solvol Autosol on a soft cloth. Pretty durable but doubtless not totally brake fluid resistant but great if you are using the silicone based brake fluids or minimize exposure to the conventional brake fluid.
Post by: Oddjob on February 21, 2023, 10:48:23 PM
If you want the same finishes as I've had done the gold is CG-Gold/HHC, the Cermakrome is MCX/Burnish/polish and the black is BHK: 1-coat. I've had some silver done as well but don't know the code for that until the new receipt gets issued. Prices I quoted did not inc VAT, so £12 for body and £6 for lid.
Didn't realise there was another process for anodising Ash, Camcoat do a really nice finish called DiamonDyze which is supposed to be the dogs danglies. I'm toying with the idea of having some pistons done in it, if the alloy is ok of course.
On their Instagram page is a picture of my CB1300 wheels I had done in gold the other week.
Post by: JamesH on February 22, 2023, 10:17:16 PM
Thought I'd mentioned where the ceramic coating was done, it's Camcoat in Warrington. https://www.camcoat.com/Thanks for sharing Ken - I’ll get in touch with them as I’ve got a few bits to do.
If you want the same finishes as I've had done the gold is CG-Gold/HHC, the Cermakrome is MCX/Burnish/polish and the black is BHK: 1-coat. I've had some silver done as well but don't know the code for that until the new receipt gets issued. Prices I quoted did not inc VAT, so £12 for body and £6 for lid.
Didn't realise there was another process for anodising Ash, Camcoat do a really nice finish called DiamonDyze which is supposed to be the dogs danglies. I'm toying with the idea of having some pistons done in it, if the alloy is ok of course.
On their Instagram page is a picture of my CB1300 wheels I had done in gold the other week.
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Post by: Oddjob on February 23, 2023, 12:06:45 AM
Post by: JamesH on February 23, 2023, 12:22:54 AM
Mention my name James as he seemed happy for the referrals he’s been getting. Also if the bits are on my price list I posted mention that as well so you get the same prices. He may charge more if the parts aren’t as clean and presentable as mine usually are. Or he may not, never really asked.That’s great thanks Ken. Stupid question - what prep do you do before sending parts to him? Do you manually strip the existing paint with your dremel brushes?
Post by: Oddjob on February 23, 2023, 12:47:13 AM
For instance, once you remove all the paint off a steel piece you realise how badly they have been cut, really rough edges, weld splatter all over the place, grinding marks covered up with thick paint etc. It’s a real eye opener.