Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB750 => Topic started by: philward on July 08, 2019, 08:41:21 PM
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Question for you ex MOT testers. Just doing the historical vehicle annual taxing on the CR750 Reprica and noticed that you have to sign a declaration to say the the bike has not been 'Substantially Modified'. Read the notes and couldn't really work out what it means to bikes - ie, is my CR considered 'Substantially Modified'.
Any info much appreciated as I may/may not need to MOT the bike
Phil
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I will post a link in a minute Phil but I would say yours doesn't qualify anywhere near the substantially modified regs, so you will be ok saying No to the declaration
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Section 3. First part excludes biked, 2nd part includes bike as relevant to all vehicles.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/historic-classic-vehicles-mot-exemption-criteria/historic-classic-vehicles-mot-exemption-criteria#substantial-changes-criteria
Also this Phil
However, in general, if the changes have been made to improve safety, are using replacement parts of the same design as original, or using the same basic engine design, then these are not considered substantial changes. These include:
Changes made to preserve the vehicle, which in all cases must be when original type parts are no longer reasonably available;
Changes of a type i.e. a bodyshell with the same design as the original made when vehicles of the type were in production;
Changes to axles and running gear to improve efficiency, safety or environmental performance
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This was in Classic Bike Guide.
The ‘substantially modified’ category has seen the authorities abandon an original eight-point scheme which would have categorised different components, such as engines, frames, suspension and brakes as changes that affected the vehicle’s historic age for a simpler arrangement. This followed concerns that vehicles that had upgraded brakes or better engines might fall foul of the regulations. Instead, ‘substantially modified’ will now mean a vehicle that has a power to weight ratio of more than 15 per cent in excess of its original design, unless such a modification took place before 1988
But I can not find any official doc referring to it. I don't think the Dov know what to do about bikes and are leaving it open to possible change in the future if need be.
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I think you are correct Chris. This was all outlined in a 'draft' document which has still not been signed off or whatever they do. I think HM Gov have other more pressing things on their minds that clarifying our little queries 🙄🙄🙄🙄
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/670431/vehicles-of-historical-interest-substantial-change-guidance.pdf
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Thanks Julie and Chris - I thought it was all a little vague for motorcycles but that pretty much clears it up for me
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I think you are correct Chris. This was all outlined in a 'draft' document which has still not been signed off or whatever they do. I think HM Gov have other more pressing things on their minds that clarifying our little queries 🙄🙄🙄🙄
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/670431/vehicles-of-historical-interest-substantial-change-guidance.pdf
I wonder what that might be. No doubt something to do with saving their own arses. :D
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I think you are correct Chris. This was all outlined in a 'draft' document which has still not been signed off or whatever they do. I think HM Gov have other more pressing things on their minds that clarifying our little queries 🙄🙄🙄🙄
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/670431/vehicles-of-historical-interest-substantial-change-guidance.pdf
What about this - https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/kitconverted-vehicles - alters the appearance?
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I think you are correct Chris. This was all outlined in a 'draft' document which has still not been signed off or whatever they do. I think HM Gov have other more pressing things on their minds that clarifying our little queries 🙄🙄🙄🙄
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/670431/vehicles-of-historical-interest-substantial-change-guidance.pdf
What about this - https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/kitconverted-vehicles - alters the appearance?
You old boys worry too much. If you have a original unmodified frame then it does not count as a kit conversion on a bike ;) ;)
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A kit vehicle definition is :
A kit-built vehicle is one where all the parts are supplied new by the manufacturer.
So that's not relevant to your bike either Phil.
A kit-converted vehicle has had:
a kit of new parts added to an existing vehicle, or
old parts added to a new kit
The general appearance of the vehicle will change because of the kit.
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Unless you have a CR hard tail :o
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So my bike has no modification to the engine and the suspension has been removed so less parts to go wrong, so can this be classed for MOT exemption? :o :-\
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Unless you can prove it was all done over 30 years ago, I would say yours has been substantially modified and looks like it should be on a Q plate therefore needs yearly MOT's still. I would like to be proved wrong though.
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So my bike has no modification to the engine and the suspension has been removed so less parts to go wrong, so can this be classed for MOT exemption? :o :-\
The only CB750 parts you have there is the, engine, carbs, front wheel, fork lowers and rear wheel hub. That is a custom built frame and never had any suspension fitted, to be removed ;) ;)
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Unless you can prove it was all done over 30 years ago, I would say yours has been substantially modified and looks like it should be on a Q plate therefore needs yearly MOT's still. I would like to be proved wrong though.
It is registered as a 1976 so no Q plate.
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OK, so have you informed DVLA that it has been substantially modified?
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OK, so have you informed DVLA that it has been substantially modified?
No this is the bikes 3rd incarnation as a chop, so I have no idea what the previous owners have done. ???
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OK...so as the current owner its your responsibility, legally, to inform DVLA of the changes. When you do that, I'm sure they will say its been substantially modified and therefore not MOT exempt. Don't forget that if you don't inform DVLA, your insurance may possibly be invalid.
Edit.....it's no agro getting an MOT anyway, its got to be road worthy and safe at all times, so the need to have an annual MOT should be of no issue at all.
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Unless you can prove it was all done over 30 years ago, I would say yours has been substantially modified and looks like it should be on a Q plate therefore needs yearly MOT's still. I would like to be proved wrong though.
It is registered as a 1976 so no Q plate.
What is it registered as. As in make. If it's a one off chop with no certificate of conformity it should have had a single vehicle inspection and be on a Q plate surely.
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I have started something here haven't I! Interesting and relevant though. I intend to get an MOT, it's just the online declaration that intrigued me.
So glad we have access to good knowledge and guidance from our forum members and friends!
Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk
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As an ex tester and a kitcar builder it depends what the log book(v5) sez and date of registration on it.
If it sez Honda with the frame number that is stamped on the frame(as long as that IS NOT the original Honda number) DVLA have previously accepted the frame swap to be "standard" and whilst i am not 100% certain on this one very few laws to do with motoring are retro active, in fact the only one i can think of is screen washers!
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Depends on what was done by previous owners and when. As the rules have changed repeatedly and dvla dont even consistently apply them if the frame number, and reg plate agree with the log book and it's been a chop for a long time I would let sleeping dogs lie. You do need to inform insurance of the modified status, once that is signed off on, I geuss it's worth asking do they want you to MOT it? I would take the line on the fact it's a chopper as that it has been that for a long time before proof of chopped status and date were needed and it's down to dvla to prove it was done more recently. Same as them outlawing building home built trailers - stupid bit of legislation that is meaningless as it's totally un provable and there are millions of home built trailers kicking around with no form of identity so someone can build more and unless they share details of the build online or something then a new trailer being illegal and an old one not is a moot point.
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The trouble is these days more and more laws are been turned on their heads were you have to provide the proof and not them.