Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB750 => Topic started by: Pauarc on January 20, 2024, 09:43:30 AM
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Has anyone fitted a LED bulb into the standard headlight on a Honda cb750k2
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Google Paul Goff. He's respected in classic bike circles. I'm OEM on my bikes, so not used him, but know of others happy with his advice and products.
http://www.norbsa02.freeuk.com/goffyleds.htm
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There’s a comparison thread I did on just that subject a year or so ago, worthwhile reading.
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I think it's fair to say that generally fitting an LED headlamp bulb will result in a brighter whiter light using less current but the main & dip beam may be compromised in terms of scatter & dip cut off as per Ken's old post.
The issue is that older headlights reflectors & lenses were designed for Tungsten or Quartz Iodene fillaments so the dip cut off arrangement does not work the same due to the difference in the point of light arrangement between an incandescent filament and a LED array in a LED type bulb.
I have found that with LED bulbs you certainly get what you pay for as a general rule. I have had what looks like a good quality LED with a decent alloy heat sink fail within a couple of days. I have also on our old WJ Jeep had some cheap LED bulbs that were branded Hogfather that had a fan for cooling last for several years until I sold the vehicle - too bulky for a motorcycle headlamp bowl.
It is my opinion that if you want to go down the LED route it's worth buying from a supplier like Classic LED's where a warranty has some chance of being honoured - the price you pay will be almost double so you pays your money & take your chances. Interestingly some of the modern Quartz Iodene bulbs sold by the likes of Halfords Advance range have amazing outputs but a shorter lifespan is a trade off - often typically 2 years in a car.
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Ted, I think you're referring to early LED bulbs, or cheap jobs. If you look at Paul Goff's website you'll see that the bulbs he sells now have the led's positioned in the same position as the original filaments, so the main and dip beams work as designed. 👍
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Ted, I think you're referring to early LED bulbs, or cheap jobs. If you look at Paul Goff's website you'll see that the bulbs he sells now have the led's positioned in the same position as the original filaments, so the main and dip beams work as designed. 👍
A typical tungsten fillament is what less half a mm in diameter so no LED lamp can get close to that in terms of being a point of light for focus. Most LED replacement bulbs are made to fit a wide range of headlamp units so they must compromise somewhere I would have though. That said there has been a great improvement in dip design as you say - an LED replacement for a specific make of reflector & lenz might be what Paul Goff is selling I'm not familiar with his products or used them. Might be we need an update on Kens original tests.
I've just gone for a complete LED headlamp unit as originality in that area is not a concern for me.
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So would it be better to change the complete unit any suggestions on a unit
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If your headlamp unit is the same diameter as a 500 one then the one I used was was recommended to me by member here Allenkelly1.
Certainly in no way original looking - gives a good light pattern - I bought the Osram LED version. There are standard & higher powered versions on e-bay. It was a straight fit into the DS 500 rim kit. Mine was replaced due to cosmetic damage and rust to the original.
It's sold as a Land Rover unit for the old Defender model with standard 7" headlights, mine was similar to this link but was marked as Osram & has the right lenz markings.
.https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/303960372602
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Hi Ted
Did you fit it into the head light backing looks like same size (have you a picture of what it looks like) Paul
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On my 500.
I did not connect the indicator unit that is buit in - the Angel eyes sidelamp can be used as a DTRL if you do some creative wiring. It leaves a lot of handy spare space in the headlamo bowl.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52670411081_b030d438bf_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ofiCcT)first mock up (https://flic.kr/p/2ofiCcT) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
On my 400 that I fitted with a 500 headlamp bowl.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53411795286_633b95cd4c_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pnPpUb)400 lamp change (https://flic.kr/p/2pnPpUb) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
This is the sidelamp/DTRO at night on my 500.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53174052730_a1072271c8_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2p1NVjA)500 Angel Eye (https://flic.kr/p/2p1NVjA) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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Thanks Ted
Great looking bike looks like a good option
Thanks Paul
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I thought I’d get the L E D light Ted used on his bike fits well decided to connect with relays in light circuit not to over load switch
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If it's an LED Paul the draw will be nowhere near enough to warrant a relay.
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Strictly it's like Allenkelly1 Yamaha as he put me onto them - I'm happy to take reflected credit. 8) 8) 8)
Nice one - looks good with the blue hue - did you buy a high powered version?
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Yes I did fitted great (just fitted relays as had them so power is straight from battery)
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Fair play, although TBH I've not seen a switchgear burn out due to power demands, shorts yes. Doesn't hurt to play safe though. IIRC the draw for an LED headlight is about 10-15w only.
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Spec of L E D are
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Well I've fitted thousands of LEDs and those are explained wrong. What they are saying is that they are equivalent to those wattages, not that they'll draw that much power. 45w for a sidelight??? add running one of the beams as well and you're likely the flatten the battery very quickly.
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Yes I can see what you mean about it is the equivalent to the wattage it says
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Ken is right I think in that the watts shown are defintely not a true reflection of the current used by LED's.
The important part I think is to look at the light output in a typical quarts Iodene H4 bulb will have an output of around 1350 Lumens for main beam the LED unit is around 3600 Lumens that more than double the light output even more if dip & main are on together as with these lamps thats 6,000 Lumens.
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For a matter of interest I put an amp meter on feed wire (old side and main bulb was 4.1A on main beam) then on L E D which was as you see less. Side and dip then side and main
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So around 18/30 w dip/main rating.
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Certainly better than 135w for main and side they were quoting.
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Yes I agree and thanks for all the help on the LED lights they take less power for a better light 💡
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I think they mean EQUIVALENT LIGHT OUTPUT to the wattage
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Just ordered a direct fit compact LED P45t bulb from Classic led's.
They do cool white, halogen white or warm white if you want to keep the classic look.
https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/products/compact-direct-fit-p45t-r2-led-hi-lo-beam-conversion-5-15-volts-410-423?variant=45394184667432 (https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/products/compact-direct-fit-p45t-r2-led-hi-lo-beam-conversion-5-15-volts-410-423?variant=45394184667432)
I'd previously fitted a halogen bulb and relays but discovered the charging system can't keep up if you're stuck in city traffic with lights on and indicators flashing plus holding the brake light on at traffic lights etc.
My volt meter was down to 11.2v at idle speed.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/GQUC6TZKV9SkJBCh9 (https://photos.app.goo.gl/GQUC6TZKV9SkJBCh9)
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I managed a morning's ride with a heated jacket and heated gloves plugged into my bike. Running your battery down just due to dipped headlights doesn't seem right to me? Maybe check your battery or charging system is ok?
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They are only about 180w generator at high revs when new
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Martin,
thanks for your input and good to know you're getting out and about on your Honda.
I'm still using the original rectifier and voltage regulator on my CB750F1, but did once have have an overcharging problem which I fixed with info gleaned from this forum. (But that's maybe for another subject thread).
However my new battery and charging system now works exactly as it should, I fitted a voltage meter to keep an eye on it.
Sometimes I do stuff without considering the consequences such as fitting the halogen headlight bulb.
As Bryan mentions the generator needs high revs, but that's not always possible in city stop/start traffic so it's not enough to replenish the battery voltage lost whilst idling at standstill.
Also I have a Boyer electronic ignition system fitted which apparently cuts out if the battery voltage is too low.
So I've learned the hard way that the charging system can just about cope in city traffic when the bike is in standard original spec.
Anyhow all this has been gone over in a previous thread where Julie mentions what I've just learned!
So back to the original thread subject, I'm hoping LED bulbs should help lower the power loss in city traffic.
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FWIW I tend to hook my battery up to my smart charger pretty much every week last summer plus monthly in the winter when it is not used. If I've been changing bulbs or testing circuits etc I tend to pop it on charge again.
I have noticed that AGM batteries hold their charge (if measured as voltage) much longer when the bike is standing. I use a quick coupler under my seat to connect the C-Tek to my bike & our old car.
Easy for me as I have electricity in my garage plus water proof sockets at the front of the house and on the outside of my garage.
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Aye Ted,
AGM batteries seem better.
I've been using them on my modern bikes for some time now.
But I'm reluctant to use them on older bikes as the electrical guru over on the Norton club site says only to use them if you have a modern solid state rectifier/regulator pack fitted.
He says on older regulators the charge input varies more and standard lead acid batteries cope better with this as they have breather pipes that deal with any heat pressure build up.
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Interesting comments Skoti - I thought they were more the case with lithium Ion batteries.
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Martin,
thanks for your input and good to know you're getting out and about on your Honda.
I'm still using the original rectifier and voltage regulator on my CB750F1, but did once have have an overcharging problem which I fixed with info gleaned from this forum. (But that's maybe for another subject thread).
However my new battery and charging system now works exactly as it should, I fitted a voltage meter to keep an eye on it.
Sometimes I do stuff without considering the consequences such as fitting the halogen headlight bulb.
As Bryan mentions the generator needs high revs, but that's not always possible in city stop/start traffic so it's not enough to replenish the battery voltage lost whilst idling at standstill.
Also I have a Boyer electronic ignition system fitted which apparently cuts out if the battery voltage is too low.
So I've learned the hard way that the charging system can just about cope in city traffic when the bike is in standard original spec.
Anyhow all this has been gone over in a previous thread where Julie mentions what I've just learned!
So back to the original thread subject, I'm hoping LED bulbs should help lower the power loss in city traffic.
Skoti, pride comes before a fall... started the bike this morning and plugged in my heated jacket and it died. No lights, no starter. Dead. Fuses are OK. So I'm dusting off my wiring diagram. It serves me right! Too much load somewhere. Should have known better! :-\
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I would be looking at the frame earth connection plus the main battery leads. My aftermarket fuse box from DS failed so I had to solder a fuse connection.
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I would be looking at the frame earth connection plus the main battery leads. My aftermarket fuse box from FS failed so I had to solder a fuse connection.
Are you sure FS wasn’t the comment you made after it failed Ted!🤣
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Yep FS DS.
I have amended the post now from FS to DS!
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Yep FS DS.
I have amended the post now from FS to DS!
So annoying Ted when something new like that fails! I bought a random bladed fuse box to fit on the 750 when I restored it. It’s not original, neither is the electronic ignition and the reg/rectifier and the absence of the clutch safety switch.😜
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Yes indeed Johnny, you convince yourself that a new part can't be the cause so check loads of other things again. On my 400 I had a new cheap LED bulb off eBay. It worked fine when I first fitted the headlamp bowl spaghetti into the bowl. A few days later the bulb failed - I spent time you can't get back chasing the fault back to the new bulb that must have lasted for a total of 2 or 3 minutes of actual illumination.
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Sometimes that saying rings true - “buy cheap pay dear” (is that the right saying?)🤪
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Martin,
thanks for your input and good to know you're getting out and about on your Honda.
I'm still using the original rectifier and voltage regulator on my CB750F1, but did once have have an overcharging problem which I fixed with info gleaned from this forum. (But that's maybe for another subject thread).
However my new battery and charging system now works exactly as it should, I fitted a voltage meter to keep an eye on it.
Sometimes I do stuff without considering the consequences such as fitting the halogen headlight bulb.
As Bryan mentions the generator needs high revs, but that's not always possible in city stop/start traffic so it's not enough to replenish the battery voltage lost whilst idling at standstill.
Also I have a Boyer electronic ignition system fitted which apparently cuts out if the battery voltage is too low.
So I've learned the hard way that the charging system can just about cope in city traffic when the bike is in standard original spec.
Anyhow all this has been gone over in a previous thread where Julie mentions what I've just learned!
So back to the original thread subject, I'm hoping LED bulbs should help lower the power loss in city traffic.
Skoti, pride comes before a fall... started the bike this morning and plugged in my heated jacket and it died. No lights, no starter. Dead. Fuses are OK. So I'm dusting off my wiring diagram. It serves me right! Too much load somewhere. Should have known better! :-\
If you can't find it readily, then check the pins both in and out at the rear of the ignition switch itself.
If you're taking power out somewhere to heat that's also passing through that switch, then it may not take the load.
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Yep, I found it. It was the single red terminal on the back of the key switch. 👍
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So is fitting led lighting all round much of a job when running the original loom? I'm not great with electrics but usually muddle my way through it.
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Hi Dom,
the led bulbs I bought from from https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/collections/12-volt-collection (https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/collections/12-volt-collection) are a direct replacement for your original bulbs.
They aint cheap but 'plug and play' and no need for any wiring loom mods.
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Good shout K2-K6 and well done Martin for finding it - I take little joy from doing electrics even more so if I think it's all done then they start causing a new fault.
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Good shout K2-K6 and well done Martin for finding it - I take little joy from doing electrics even more so if I think it's all done then they start causing a new fault.
👍 Cleaned up, soldered and running again.
http://www.norbsa02.freeuk.com/goffyleds.htm or 01494 868218. Not used him, but I know people who are happy with what he advised they go for on their Nortons. Would have thought our Honda headlamps are similar enough for him to have a recommendation.
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Unsure how you've connected the "heater" supply and if that's to a switched supply post ignition switch, Martin6 ?
If so, it's better long term with direct from battery, via fuse, then to a dedicated relay to handle heater element load through that route. Then just the relay is toggled from your existing loom supply and doesn't have to take that load. It doesn't obviously alter the demand, but avoids pushing additional loading through the ignition switch and it's contact.
Obviously ignore this if already provision has been made :)
I'd be a little nervous about getting the ignition switch drop out at an inconvenient time and leaving you vulnerable in traffic if all the load is through that switch.
I've driven a car that had auxiliary lights just wired piggyback into existing circuit (no relay etc) that went at at an interesting :o time. The load had overrheated the copper contacts within the switch and melted the plastic mechanical component holding the copper tracks into their contact to make the circuit.
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I retro fitted some DTRL lights on. BMW I used the ignition circuit to power a relay to operate the lights with the added complication of a dimming relay for nigh time. Ended up having to use two relays as the dimming unit had a low current load threshold.
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The heated jacket doesn't touch the ignition switch. It has its own fused supply direct to and from the battery terminals. May just have been a coincidence it failed as I put the jacket plug in the socket. I don't generally believe I coincidences! Wonder if the extra load causes a spike through the alternator / regulator. But, off topic.
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Hello and happy Friday! Not sure if still relevant, but I like the looks of the original headlight, and I like LED bulbs :) For my car and bike I buy everything from https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk
For the bike specifically: H4 warm white 3000k
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I use a charge state light so you can see state of charge when you riding bike also when bike is not running it flashes like a alarm
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This is what it looks like
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I use a charge state light so you can see state of charge when you riding bike also when bike is not running it flashes like a alarm
Presumably the diode is switched on at a threshold voltage.
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Yes you can see state of change
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This is what it looks like
Those are also popular on 1970's British bikes, they fit nicely into the headlamp shell and are not obtrusive.
I fitted a compact Daytona volt meter for more info.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/GQUC6TZKV9SkJBCh9 (https://photos.app.goo.gl/GQUC6TZKV9SkJBCh9)
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Hi Dom,
the led bulbs I bought from from https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/collections/12-volt-collection (https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/collections/12-volt-collection) are a direct replacement for your original bulbs.
They aint cheap but 'plug and play' and no need for any wiring loom mods.
I was actually meaning complete new indicators etc as mine are in no fit usable state an as I'm building a cafe racer type mongrel so would be looking for discreet operations.
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If you don't want to fit the plastic replacements there are quite a few aftermarket stubby LED type indicators on eBay including some that look as if they will fix to rear plates or mudguards.
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If you don't want to fit the plastic replacements there are quite a few aftermarket stubby LED type indicators on eBay including some that look as if they will fix to rear plates or mudguards.
Presumably I'm going to need resistors for every light with the original electrics unless I do dig deep and get an m.unit, very tempting having spoken to Roo about his
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If you don't want to fit the plastic replacements there are quite a few aftermarket stubby LED type indicators on eBay including some that look as if they will fix to rear plates or mudguards.
Presumably I'm going to need resistors for every light with the original electrics unless I do dig deep and get an m.unit, very tempting having spoken to Roo about his
You only need resistors for LED indicators if you use the original type indicator relay. You can fit LED indicator bulbs and a replacement relay which works with LED. All other bulbs on the bike can just be replaced with LED bulbs.
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If you don't want to fit the plastic replacements there are quite a few aftermarket stubby LED type indicators on eBay including some that look as if they will fix to rear plates or mudguards.
Presumably I'm going to need resistors for every light with the original electrics unless I do dig deep and get an m.unit, very tempting having spoken to Roo about his
There you go Dom, LED indicator flasher unit available on that same link that I posted earlier along with suitable LED bulbs for your bike..
https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/products/12v-electronic-indicator-flasher-relay-classic-car-with-oe-click-x-l-p-2-3-pin (https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/products/12v-electronic-indicator-flasher-relay-classic-car-with-oe-click-x-l-p-2-3-pin)
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You can buy decent electronic flasher units whose flash rate is independent of the current load - a straight replacement for the original unit that has three terminals. Quite a few sellers such as the classic led specialists sell them.
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If you don't want to fit the plastic replacements there are quite a few aftermarket stubby LED type indicators on eBay including some that look as if they will fix to rear plates or mudguards.
Presumably I'm going to need resistors for every light with the original electrics unless I do dig deep and get an m.unit, very tempting having spoken to Roo about his
There you go Dom, LED indicator flasher unit available on that same link that I posted earlier along with suitable LED bulbs for your bike..
https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/products/12v-electronic-indicator-flasher-relay-classic-car-with-oe-click-x-l-p-2-3-pin (https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/products/12v-electronic-indicator-flasher-relay-classic-car-with-oe-click-x-l-p-2-3-pin)
There you go, I'm showing my electrical ineptitude. Thanks matey!