Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB500/550 => Topic started by: Orcade-Ian on February 13, 2023, 09:12:10 AM
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Has there ever been any company making a 4 into 2 system for 550 F? In the absence of a genuine or reasonable looking silencer, it occurred to me that such a system could improve things cosmetically - I don't want to go down the 4 into 4 route (would they even fit?) or aftermarket 4 into 1.
Ian
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Nearest I can think of Ian was the CB650, sure they had the 4 into 2. Don’t know how different they were. Think the 650 was just bored out 550.
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Thanks Johnny,
I didn't think of those - a mate South had one and I think it's still around nearby. I might be able to persuade him to photograph/measure some details. Bet they are like rocking horse spit too! Cracking biking day today!
Ian
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Think you're right on availability of 4~2 original system, collector section vulnerable on them too on most model.
The Delkevic set for 550 F looks quite good though as seen one on local bike meet. Alignment of course nothing like original in header aesthetic plus straight/level silencer.
Decent value at £350 though for stainless system.
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The Delkevic systems certainly look good value - they make a 4 into 2 for the 500 as well.
Alan has a Delkevic SS system on his 400 it looks very well finished.
I will be very tempted to put one on my 500 at that price.
Typo I mean 4 into 1 !!
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I can’t seem to see 4:2 system on their site. What am I doing wrong? Here’s my 4:1 though, which fits perfectly.
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My Bad I meant 4 into 1.
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I can’t seem to see 4:2 system on their site. What am I doing wrong? Here’s my 4:1 though, which fits perfectly.
Does the system come with those neat clamps at the top?
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Thanks Johnny,
I didn't think of those - a mate South had one and I think it's still around nearby. I might be able to persuade him to photograph/measure some details. Bet they are like rocking horse spit too! Cracking biking day today!
Ian
Might venture out your way in the afternoon Ian! ☕️ 😉
No problem if your planning going out yourself Ian!
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I can’t seem to see 4:2 system on their site. What am I doing wrong? Here’s my 4:1 though, which fits perfectly.
Does the system come with those neat clamps at the top?
Yes Ted, and new exhaust gasket rings.
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The Delkevic system comes with everything needed including bracket , stand stop, silicone sealant & even a spring puller :)
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Spring puller….I’ve been done…🤔
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Spring puller….I’ve been done…🤔
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I briefly offered up my 650 headers to the 550 engine. Pipe diameter was far greater so there wasnt and chance of them fitting.
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Spring puller….I’ve been done…🤔
Had to pinch my grandson’s trainer laces and the wife’s pudding spoon to fashion something….they were not happy
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Many thanks folks for the numerous replies,
Andy, many thanks for trying those headers - that certainly rules that avenue out and thanks K2-K6 for the collector info - something always best to avoid. I am still on the trail of making just a silencer in stainless but once made, it's not easy to alter the internals - loud pipes might save lives but I prefer something quiet!
Sorry Johnny, only found your latest post when I returned. I was working away paint stripping the cam cover when I was interrupted by Birsay Les, then Leslie A and Davie L (new BM thingy) It was rude not to join them on a great ride - I took the 350 Four and did just over 60 miles via the toy cupboards of Davie and Leslie A. Impromptu trip and thoroughly enjoyed it! That padded boiler suit and my recently obtained Jacket were plenty warm enough and rode the Forza 300 (Birsay Les) back from Town. Psychological batteries now fully charged!
Ian
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Tried taking a pic with my phone on the ride today but it kept shutting down so Les (with the Forza) came to the rescue with his proper camera!
Looking North towards the Island of Rousay on the Birsay Moor Hillside road.
Would also fit on the 'out and about' section - just use your imagination!
[attach=1]
[attach=2]
Ian
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No problem Ian! Don’t blame you setting off on a day like this! 😂
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My 550 K0 had a 4 into 2 fitted. I can dig it out of the shed and see if it’s got a manufacturer name on it if you want.
It was on the bike when I got it.
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That would be great if you can Steve. Did it appear to be a proprietary job or home made? Did you have any pics from when you bought it?
Ian
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Seem to recall Dunstall making a 4 into 2 system back in the day, reverse cone megas iirc.
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Yup, sold loads as less than half the price of the Honda system, it was 4 into 1 into 2
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That sounds complicated Bryan,
Was it a 'bunch of bananas' like the F or more like the K with some kind of plenum chamber underneath?
Ian
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Underneath the motor was a pipe that went across then out and up for the silencers to connect to with 4 forward facing stubs for the downpipes to connect to, kept the centre stand and the rubber stop fitted on a silencer bracket
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How about 275323085146 on fleabay
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looks like a decent system for the money.
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How about 275323085146 on fleabay
What to do with that number? I get: no matches. Where do I put it? In Holland we don't use Ebay that much as we have www.marktplaats.nl. Anyway, I seem to remember Busso also had a 4-2 system back then and here is what their own 4-4 sounds like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNVsrxHGvSg
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Go to ebay uk and put the number in the search box, i have found that the different countries dont show all the others items. Its a Marving system and the seller is in italy tagoricambito or something similar
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I could live with that system Bryan!
Not being familiar with 500/550 differences do you know if it would fit 550 F series or any obvious reason why it wouldn't? I see that he singles out 500 K3 as being unsuitable - any idea why? Definitely want to keep the centre stand and sidestand but don't mind making or modifying bracketry.
Ian
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At a glance this is an interesting option I know nothing about the chrome quality or noise level or what brackets it uses. I did wonder if there were UK stockists.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/275323085146?hash=item401a88e15a:g:mFEAAOSwU3Bii7yT&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoNXrAHwC%2Fi325yE92knuEH2%2FkmDnqM%2BdJuGMRloCCHDEhkvkh25Xt7wbVVA4wEQq3roJi%2Fm1N6dGwXud2PeUzp2MKM5BPSRhYY3xFJyBbNPjMISx4C20jzMELfHtu6n930NiSWZ4HOhrLGSi%2FqQRxP1nwKKRDe%2BdvtpvzTnJxWAMu%2BaVd8LotcDpkJOM7tsdOZKCxPvv1Wk5QkhzHPdSui0%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR9qZw-TKYQ
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52691458113_984ea00776_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ohauKK)s-l1600 (https://flic.kr/p/2ohauKK) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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This is my one, no manufacturers marks on it:
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Thanks for finding and posting the pictures Steve but I don't think that style would suit me. If I could be sure that the basic head casting and therefore port positions and angles were the same on 500 and 550 plus the distance to mountings the same, then I might go for the Marving system.
Ian
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500 and 550 head are identical parts mate, footrestpositions might alter but bracketry is the easy bit
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Thanks for that Bryan, it's very reassuring if the heads are the same. Assuming they got the extra capacity on the bores on the 550 - I seem to remember you telling Ted that the cranks were the same. Then that means the deck height is the same so should only need the silencer hanger area possibly needing a couple of extra brackets - there's obviously one needed anyway on the left. Looking at a pic of the 500, are the rear footrest frame hoops the same on 500 and 550, they look very similar to me?
Ian
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Not the same Ian, the 500 has solid frame lugs and the 550f has tubular frame lugs. It’s possible the 550 has them slightly lower than the 500 but there’s not a lot in it. Oddly the 550k3 having the four exhausts you’d imagine the level would be the same, it may be the brake pedal is the problem with it not fitting.
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Morning Ken,
Yes, I've just looked again at a better 500 pic and the rear footrest hangers are like my 350/4 (made of 2 clam-shell pieces on mine). Side stand is much farther back on F bikes - that could be another stumbling block as well as the brake pedal. Wonder if anyone has put this Marving 4 into 2 on an F series? Might post on the .net site to see.
Ian
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Thought they only mentioned not fitting to the K3 not the F series Ian?
The F series had a rear brake pedal that sat much further out to clear the 4 into 1 and also the bigger depth clutch cover, the 550K3 has a really odd looking rear brake pedal which could hit the new system.
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You could consider this Ian,
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/282034589307?hash=item41aa924e7b:g:AA0AAOSw-0xYPrsv
Find a set of Cb500 headers and transfer them onto those silencers. Should be a few headers lying around, it's the silencers that rot, the headers are usually fine, plus you don't know if the new headers are double skinned or not. Something to consider as if they aren't they'll blue quite easily.
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Thanks Ken,
They do look great don't they? Were 500 headers separate or need to be chopped off rotten silencers? Good shout re the double skinning, I know some like the blueing but not me! I didn't want to modify this bike too much but having a silencer on each side of any multi is always pleasing to my eye (all four of 'em!)
Ian
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You'd need to chop off the headers from the rotten silencers, if I was doing it I'd grind the old silencer off as you retain more of the header pipe, rather than just cutting them at the join.
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My 2nd 500 K0 had a 4 into 2 system on it both silencers have rotted out but the down pipes are good Will post some pictures tomorrow if they could be of use.?
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Thanks for that possibility,
I might be on to an original silencer but would be happy to see these headers as I am still fancying the 4 into 2 set up sometime, so all options are there then.
Ian
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How about the backpulses to help the breathing of the engine? I always heard 4-2 is the lesser of the three options: 4-1, 4-4 and 4-2, performance wise. Is there any substantiation for this?
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Photo's of 4-2 system downpipe appear to be removable
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That's a good point Deltarider which I think from memory has been tried and tested with believable results - might have been an I Mech E paper some years back. However, I don't think I will be entering any TTs or one of those 'how far can you go on a gallon of fuel' competitions. Wonder if they still do those?
I'll study those pics on a proper screen later and get back to you. Thanks for those,
Ian
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Seen the pics at a much better scale - many thanks!
If they will come apart for postage that would be a big help but as the silencers are shot, it wouldn't be the end of the World if they were lopped off with a whizzer downstream of the Y piece.
I'll pm you later to discuss,
Ian
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The 4 into 2 is really good for engine performance but only when the firing cylinders are matched to the exhausts, so 1 and 4 together and 2 and 3.