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Messages - deltarider
1
« on: Today at 08:23:17 PM »
The Haynes I have, deal with: 1.CB350F, CB500 and CB500K1 2.CB400F, CB550 Super-Sport, CB550K3 and CB550F2 Unfortunately Haynes did not deal with the differences, models for the European continent had. That has been the cause of frustration for years. 
2
« on: Today at 08:07:04 PM »
You're making the assumption that I've said it needs more power (supplied by the Boyer ? ) which is not what I've stated. Sorry if I did. I may have been misled by what so many believe who attribute super powers to an EI. You have shown far more knowledge. The ignition in itself is quite an ordinary process. Complicated is that we deal with 1) an idle, 2) load (acceleration) and 3) cruise. Question .... can you describe the failure mode within the combustion chamber which gives erratic acceleration response as you've described it ? In other words, why are you not getting a perfectly linear response with the settings you have. I wouldn't call it erratic. Before I touched the airscrews in 1980, acceleration was just fabulous. In my memory I was constantly turning the throttle grip forward to prevent the bike from leaping like a jaguar. Later it was just good. The mec that initially has tuned my bike - either in Japan or in Holland - must have done a perfect job. Later a Honda mec - not the same - learned me that airscrew positions may need to differ further than just the +/- 1/8 of a turn Honda prescribes. BTW, in his years long experience the CB500 was the hardest to fine tune of all the CB Fours. This could relate to the special carburetor setting, models for the European continent had. I don't know. Not much later after my trip to Greece, gasoline quality changed dramatically. I remember having read an article by a widely respected professional writer for automotive and motorcycle mags - who himself owned a CB550K3 - in which article he concluded in his last line (in despair?) that "some motorcycles just don't like some gasolines". I have never asked him, but he himself may have been struggling with his CB550K3, after the arrival of the changed gasolines. Honda never state (as far as I appreciate) that you have to use equal idle circuit settings, just a suggested start point, [...] I didn't say Honda did, but Honda did give a range of +/- 1/8 of a turn. Some mechanics judged the difference in air screw position amongst the 4 could need to be more than that. I suppose they may have had a reason for that.
3
« on: Today at 12:22:47 PM »
[...]
Another observation, the Boyer ignition is very, very competent in it's delivery. I've no problem working with the std system, believing it to be mechanically almost peerless in it's design, application and component specification .... the Boyer i can see by comparison does offer tangible benefits if that's chosen by the owner though.
Among those benefit appears the ability to fire more adverse mixture range more of the time with exceptional repeatability. This seems to support a more optimum idle mixture that may give benefit in any residual unburnt component/fuel that may be affecting the fouling determination this topic is about.
[...]
The advantage you attribute to B#B, is valid for any EI that has a transitor doing the switching. Realise that even in stock configuration, coils will be fully saturated. Only in border situations a transistor has the advantage of more reserve as there's no loss due to mechanical breakers (tiny sparks can be seen in stock set up). The steeper rise time a transistor ignition provides, will also offer some reserve in border situations. That's all to it, I'm afraid. There's no shortage of spark duration because @ idle initial peak voltage will be relatively low (estimation around 7kV). An EI will NOT give a higher voltage. Why should it, if the circumstances are thus, that already 7kV is enough to bridge the plug gap. Ergo: lots of energy available. It's the gap that determines a higher or lower initial peak voltage and the atmospheric circumstances in the combustion chamber ofcourse. In my personal situation, I'm experimenting (you guys know me  ) by following what is advised in a American Honda booklet. Needles are now raised one notch (and thus in 4th) and the airscrews are two turns out. Here is something I have never communicated before. In the very first year I owned my CB500 (1980), I travelled as far as Greece. On a camping in the Peloponnessus I decided to open the Haynes manual. Being completely ignorant I followed the data in forsaid manual and have set the airscrews at one turn out. To this day I wish I had never touched them. I should at least have made a note what they were in before. Immediately the next day I noticed a difference: a negative one and never thereafter in 44 years have I been able to regain that perfect utterly smoothly accelerating CB500 again. Don't take me wrong. It has always been good thereafter, but never so perfectly accelerating as before. Later the properties of gasolines changed which made it even more difficult. That's why I am always curious to know what position other CB500 owners have their airscrews in. If my plugs stay clean at idle, driveability in acceleration suffers. My understanding is that even 1/8 of a turn can make a big difference and at least one Honda mechanic has told me that the position of the airscrews of all 4 can individually differ in position more than just 1/4 of a turn. Soon I hope to use my restaurated CO gas analyzer and see what an initial 4% CO at idle will bring.
4
« on: Today at 08:36:49 AM »
Aha, that is valuable information. I had not seen this half-grade mentioned before. In Holland the general advice was to have the D8ES-L. Let me put it like this: if the D8ES-L fouled, than a "7" also did. Now that we're older and also have a lower national speed limit than back then, both the 7 and the D8ES-L can be used no prob. I am curious if the D8EA is identical with the D8ES-L and if the D7E A also has a tip that protrudes just a fraction more than the D7ES. I have tried to see the difference myself, but I'm afraid the difference is minor and... older eyes don't help either.
5
« on: April 24, 2024, 08:57:46 AM »
Delta, i disagree,
On the asvise of an ngk rep who was a well respected sidcar racer i used D7EV in my 500 that went all over the UK and to the Isle of Man regularly plus commuting 7 miles to work.
Never fouled, never failed yes nearly twice the price but well worth it the =L was always sold as a "half grade"
NGK came with the D8ES -L for a reason. Other plugs that had a less protruding electrode, fouled. That problem needed to be adressed. In my documents, the D8ES-L was characterised by NGK as "Special Design". Although it's been interpreted by forum members as "half grade" I've not seen this confirmed by NGK as such, nor by Honda. As the D8ES-L indeed fouled less, it could be used by CB500/550 owners that had read in their Owner's Manual and I quote: [...]" if the motorcycle is going to be operated for extended periods at extremely high speeds and near maximum power in hot climates, the spark plugs should be changed to a colder heat range number." That the American EPA was somehow involved in the birth of the D8ES-L, is a story that so far comes from one member only in the international forum. I have seen no confirmation of that story yet. I mean: how about all the other markets that didn't have an EPA? Back in the day, every owner of a CB500/550 on the European continent ran the D8ES-L plug. My personal experience was that this plug fouled no more than the D7ES did. One of the best manuals I have, is the French one that was established in close participation with Honda France. On page 83 we read: BougiesLa CB 500 est équipée de NGK D-7 ES alors que le modèle actuel (CB 500 K1) possède des bougies NGK D-8 ES-L qui ont la particularité d'être autonettoyantes. Il est conseillé de monter également ces bougies sur la CB 500. In translation: The CB 500 is equipped with NGK D-7 ES while the current model (CB 500 K1) has NGK D-8 ES-L spark plugs which have the particularity of being self-cleaning. It is recommended to also fit these spark plugs on the CB 500. And that's what most of us did. I'm sorry I cannot comment on experiences/reviews which may be biased by free handouts. Untill I have more information, I consider them anecdotal.
6
« on: April 23, 2024, 06:15:09 PM »
Originally in the book it was D7ES which wasn't a particular good plug. Dealers in Holland considered it OK for the break-in period, but advised later to use newcomer D8ES-L if you would ride the highways. The D8ES probably would have been to cold. You may say the D8ES-L with its tip that protruded just a tiny bit further, was in between the 7 and 8. Also Honda France advised them for the CB500/550 and called them auto-nettoyante (selfcleaning). BTW, the D8ES-L was/is used on a wide variety of bikes. I had them in my CB500 on all my travels in Europe, often at maintained high speeds. I wouldn't have felt comfortable with the 7, not when you, what happened more than once, were late to switch to reserve... So it depends on your riding, but if the D8EA is the new name for the D8ES-L, it's a good choice. If you don't cruise over 5000 rpm, you may consider the 7EA.
7
« on: April 23, 2024, 04:27:30 PM »
I dispute this,
My 500 has no issue
In fact, I use a harder plug than reccomended, an 8 instead of a 7 ,
I have checked the tickover mixture, and my airscrews are turned out more than normal,
I also have Boyer ignition, and run the plug gaps at 33thou,
Is that plug a D8ES, a D8ES-L or a D8EA? What is the position of your airscrews. I myself have had D8ES-L plugs many times, recommended by mecs if you travelled at high speeds. Nowadays - many years older - I run D7EA. I see no advantage in gaps over 0,7 mm. You can expect they will erode sooner.
8
« on: April 23, 2024, 02:58:47 PM »
Here is a question the experts in the international forum wouldn't (or couldn't?) answer.
In particular CB500/550s are known to easily foul their sparkplugs at idle. What - in theory - would make these CB Fours idle better: gapping the electrodes 0,6mm or 0,7mm? Please substantiate your answer.
9
« on: April 23, 2024, 02:32:25 PM »
[...]
Is the primary resistance quoted?
A link to the actual item would help.
This ^ and is it a known brand? Advice in general: If no brand and made in China, abstain from ordering.
10
« on: April 23, 2024, 08:16:09 AM »
Why not indicate which you bought? We're in the dark.
11
« on: April 18, 2024, 08:18:58 AM »
Can you inform us some more why it needs a rebuild?
12
« on: April 16, 2024, 04:24:56 PM »
All the original cables i saw in the 70's had a black lining on the inner cable [...] Thanks Bryan. The old original cable I have kept also has a black lining on the inner cable. The one on the bike for the last 60.000 km - also original - IIRC gray but as soon I have checked I'll report. [...]
I doubt that Honda will do anything as you do not know where it originally came from, that dealer is gone so cannot provide purchase details and finaly time in stock
So far Honda seems very interested. Seller has 30 more. He has bought them back in the day of a dealer that went out of business. The difference in quality is substantial. My old cable weighs a ton compared to the one in the package. Still the cable I bought of him may well be original. What puzzles me is that the partnumbers, including the 3 digits MODIFICATION DESIGNATION, are identical.
13
« on: April 16, 2024, 01:16:01 PM »
I have informed Customer Support of Honda EU on the matter and they are investigating it.
Note that the cable lacks the thicker part against chafing. The cable is much thinner than the previous 22870-323-621 ones I had and I could not detect the inner Teflonlike lining. When you zoom in on the pic, you will notice a detail: the little coupon wich mentions the partnumber has 'Japan' cut off from 'Made in Japan'.
My hope was that mechanics that have worked on these bikes, could remember/testify that inspite of the identical partnumber 22870-323-621 cables could nonetheless differ in quality. That would be exceptional however. The underlying systematic of Honda's partnumbers code is, that even when the smallest detail of a part is modified, the last three digit number in the partnumber will change.
14
« on: April 15, 2024, 11:50:35 AM »
Expect wiring will differ in color and male connectors where you need female and/or vice versa.
15
« on: April 14, 2024, 03:00:01 PM »
Bought from Marktplaats (the Dutch kind of Ebay): a new original (?) 22870-323-621 clutchcable for all European models CB500 Four for € 20,-. Haven't opened the packaging yet, as I discovered some differences with my old clutch cable I still have, which definitely is original. The one I bought now, is not only thinner, but also lacks the thicker part. Inner cable is not lined. Seller says he bought it a very long time ago from a shop that quitted business. The question is: were the CB500 clutch cabels always lined? If not, could this be an original, like maybe on the early CB500s? Or is it despite its packaging and partnumber inside the packaging an imitation? Who knows more?
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