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SOHC.co.uk Forums => Project Board => Topic started by: eight0 on December 03, 2018, 03:23:39 PM

Title: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on December 03, 2018, 03:23:39 PM
Hi All,

I am a new member and having posted on the introductions board I thought I should officially start my project thread.
(Shamelessly copied and pasted from my intorduction post)

I have not had chance to go over the bike properly yet,  I was told it has compression but I haven't tried to turn it over yet as I want to soak some oil in the barrels first.
Wires are a rats nest, missing one coil, clutch is very stiff - could just be the cable, Carbs are all there and are unseazed, though I took one of the bowls off and its full of varnish. Tank has a big dent on one side, possibly a hole, need to do some more poking with a screwdriver. Wheels look un-dented and appear straight. Headers are ok and un-dented but the collector is toast and the exhaust is missing
All in all looks like I've got a big project on my hands. The clock is showing 56k so I think I may need to do a full engine rebuild on this one - which for me is going to be interesting as I've only ever rebuilt carbs before. I have restored one bike before - A Yamaha XS2 and although I did a lot of work on it,nit was running when I got it so I didn't delve into the engine further than replacing seals and rebuilding the carbs so I'm going to need a lot of help from the gentlefolk of this forum to guide me through it.

[attach=1]

[attach=2]

On the advice from members in my introduction post, I am going to try and start the bike before I go any further. I've got the carbs ready to clean and have started collecting bits I need.
So far I have:

another coil to replace the missing one
Some cheap oil
oil filters
new plugs
new plug caps
cheap battery
compression tester
aux fuel tank

I'll need to temporarily wire it up to get the bike running as the loom is a mess. I'm no electrician but after a bit of head scratching I drew up this diagram.. will it work? I'm not worried about wiring in the alternator or reg/rec, (I don't think it need them)? as I just want to see if it will run. I wanted to check it has oil pressure which is why I added the light and thought I may as well add the kill switch and starter switch in too.

[attach=3]

I'll give the carbs a clean up this week, not a full strip down just yet - just enough to hopefully get it running.





Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: SteveW on December 03, 2018, 03:46:36 PM
Make sure the negative lead of the battery has a very clean connection to earth.

Mine didn't so the current went down the small earth wire in the main loom and melted it.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on December 03, 2018, 04:29:40 PM
Make sure the negative lead of the battery has a very clean connection to earth.

Mine didn't so the current went down the small earth wire in the main loom and melted it.

Ouch! ok I'll be getting the dremel wire brush attachments out then.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: hairygit on December 03, 2018, 05:08:05 PM
Can't see any reason why it won't work electrically. As has already been mentioned, make sure the earth lead is clean both ends and where it attaches to the frame/engine. Best to use the kickstarter with the plugs out until you are sure oil is reaching the rockers/ valves, the oil light may extinguish a fair while before it reaches the cam area, safer to kick it rather than hit the battery too hard to begin with.

Sent from my X6pro using Tapatalk

Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on December 03, 2018, 08:58:15 PM
Got the carbs apart. 3 of the float pins came out ok.. one is stuck in there. Rather than break the post I've seen on another thread that a decent automatic centre punch can work so i've ordered one.

Another issue is one of the needle jet (main jet)? housings has badly deteriorated, looks like I might need to find another carb.

[attach=1]

Stuck pin
[attach=2]

Corroded
[attach=3]

 
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Nurse Julie on December 03, 2018, 09:19:05 PM
You probably know anyway but be careful using any type of punch on the float pins, the towers snap for fun 😪😪😪
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: mickwinf on December 03, 2018, 09:53:27 PM
use some heat on the post pins and be very careful. I have some carb bodies if you need one if i have the correct one, what number carb is it?
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on December 03, 2018, 10:00:21 PM
use some heat on the post pins and be very careful. I have some carb bodies if you need one if i have the correct one, what number carb is it?

Ok I'll give some heat a go.
The one with the deterioration is the third one in from the left of the bike. The one with the stuck pin is the first one on the left. Not sure how the numbering order goes
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: mickwinf on December 03, 2018, 11:27:02 PM
i have a set with one carb worse than yours, i think on mine it was the end one but cant remember which one, will check and let you know. they are numbered from the left side of bike as you sit on it, the carb with the choke control is number 1.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Seabeowner on December 04, 2018, 08:35:31 AM
Some solvent first and then +1 on the gentle heat. I use a flattened off nail and a light taps with a tiny 2-3oz hammer. That is about the most moth eaten main jet tower I've seen. Always on US bikes, I've not seen much of it on UK bikes.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Trigger on December 04, 2018, 08:44:58 AM
Cut down between the post and the float with a very thin blade on a dremmel, then drill the remains of the pin out of the post. Tricky but not impossible  ;)
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on December 04, 2018, 12:25:17 PM
i have a set with one carb worse than yours, i think on mine it was the end one but cant remember which one, will check and let you know. they are numbered from the left side of bike as you sit on it, the carb with the choke control is number 1.

Thanks Mick! ok its its number 2 with the corroded jet post then, if you have a spare housing your willing to sell that would be great!
Hopefully I'll get the pin out of Carb 4 and that won't need replacing...

Best tip I can give you is buy a decent set of JIS screwdrivers, all the cross headed screws which are JIS will have a small punch mark on the head, JIS screwdrivers are a perfect fit for these screws and you risk rounding them off with a normal Phillips screwdriver.

Decent set for a decent price here.

https://ruggedroads.co.uk/epages/00cbb604-5d1c-407e-8207-580e14387ec5.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/00cbb604-5d1c-407e-8207-580e14387ec5/Products/%2212705/6/8%22

Thanks Oddjob, Bought a set of Vessel JIS screwdrivers for my last project.. eye-wateringly expensive but saved me on a few occasions.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: mickwinf on December 04, 2018, 01:48:37 PM
ok this is a number 2 carb, looks to be in sound condition. Yours for a donation to the site
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on December 04, 2018, 04:13:57 PM
ok this is a number 2 carb, looks to be in sound condition. Yours for a donation to the site

Thats brilliant Mick! Thanks so much. I will send you a PM.

In other news.. I managed to get the stuck float pin out with the help of an auto punch. it freed up the pin in the towers but was still well and truly suck in the float so I had to cut the float and pin with a dremel, but its out!

Are the aftermarket floats and pins from DSS any good? I don't really want to pay £50 for an OEM one.

Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: mickwinf on December 04, 2018, 04:16:14 PM
i can supply a used float and pin with the carb body so no worries!
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on December 11, 2018, 12:26:11 PM
I haven't had chance to see the bike for a while and only had time in the evenings so I've been sticking to working on the carbs.
They are cleaning up quite nicely and thanks to @Mickwinf I have a replacement no. 2 carb.

Before and after


Quick/stupid question, If I wanted to get these vapor blasted, I'd be removing all the throttle/butterfly shafts which help identify which carb body it is. Is there a way to ID each carb (1-4)? I can't see any markings on them apart from A-2 inside the float chamber. 
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on December 11, 2018, 03:28:22 PM
You can tell which is which by the positions of stuff like the mixture screws etc for example, if the mixture screw opening is on the right it's either 3 or 4 cylinder, left and 1 or 2 cylinder, after that you can tell which is which by the way certain stuff aligns, stuff like the blanking plugs fitted where the slide pivot pins are fitted. Study them before dismantling and you'll start to spot the differences.

As an example, your pics show 2 internal carbs as those have the vent pipe fittings, the one of the left is number 2 cylinder as it doesn't show the mixture screw opening and the blanking plug is showing. The one on the right is clearly the broken one that you replaced as it shows all the same fittings in all the same places

Ok got it, Thanks Oddjob, I've got lots of photos but I'll make notes of which side the blanking plates, mixture screw opening, slide pivot is etc too. 
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on December 11, 2018, 04:49:50 PM
The odd thing about your pic is that the float bowls don't match the carb. The one on the left does as it's drain screw faces the right direction (they face out not in so you can get to them) the one on the right is a float bowl from either 3 or 4 cylinder.

Well Spotted! I just took a pic to show what they looked like before and after the ultrasonic clean and polish, it isn't a matching bowl with that carb :)
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on December 18, 2018, 04:40:16 PM
On of the carbs was missing the needle jet (emulsion tube).

Can someone tell me if the 550K ones will fit? And if so, are the after market ones ok? I emailed these guys but they haven't responded yet. http://www.nrp-carbs.co.uk/shop/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=4155

Cheers

Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Bryanj on December 18, 2018, 10:39:58 PM
Uk 550k3 has different carbs try looking up your model on cmsnl and check part numbers
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on December 19, 2018, 08:36:34 AM
Thanks Bryan. Looks like the 550f models and some F2 had the same needle jet but it's different to the K models.
As I have a Canada F1 the link from nrp I posted before won't work.
https://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cb550f1-super-sport-550-four-1976-canada_model17110/needle-setjet_16012390004/#pageproductModelfit
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: mickwinf on December 19, 2018, 10:36:00 AM
was there one in the spare carb i sent you? i can find you one if you are stuck.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on December 20, 2018, 10:39:27 AM
was there one in the spare carb i sent you? i can find you one if you are stuck.

There was yes, that one came out easy. One was missing from the original carbs and 2 others unfortunately got damaged when I was trying to get them out because they were so corroded in there.
That would be great Mick. I'll send you a PM.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on January 04, 2019, 08:07:28 PM
Is anyone able to tell me the difference between these needle jets. The ones in the carbs that came with the bike have 2 smaller holes at the top end and an extra singe hole on the side. The one that came in the replacement carb Mick sent me has 5 holes the same size and no single hole..

Edit..

I read on the sister site that Hondaman suggested drilling out the holes in the emulsion tubes to make them bigger. I could drill the 2 smaller holes to match the others then drill a single hole in the side of the other jet.
Playing with fire I guess and there would be no knowing what effect it would have until I could actually ride it... That said miss matching ones would probably be worse?
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on January 16, 2019, 09:37:18 PM
Carbs rebuilt and new coils and caps installed. I've ordered a thin walledI18mm socket to get plugs 2 and 3 out. Just need to find a fuse box as mine is missing.

[attach=1]
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on February 04, 2019, 11:50:39 AM
Quick update, made some good progress this weekend.
I managed to get power to all the right places, Oil pressure light came on, but wouldn't go out. Found that the pressure switch had a loose wire and was grounding out so I re-made the terminal and then after 1 kick the light now goes out.
I replaced the coils, plugs and caps, cleaned the points, set the gap and the timing, checked valve clearance and fitted the carbs.

2 kicks and it fired up! Revved really high so I killed it. Tried again and cut the choke straight away, still revving quite high but kept it running for 10 seconds or so and there are no worrying noises coming from the engine. In fact it sounded great. Think there maybe be an air leak in the boots or the bench sync was way out but I'm happy that there are no major bottom end engine issues that are immediately obvious.

I will check the compression next weekend now I've burnt off the oil on top of the pistons.

I don't have much in the way of pictures, but the view inside the sump looks clean.

[attach=1]

And the mess of wiring

[attach=2]



Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: mickwinf on February 04, 2019, 06:07:12 PM
its a great feeling when they fire up!
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Rob62 on February 04, 2019, 06:13:49 PM
Good progress.... spring’s coming  8)
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on February 18, 2019, 02:06:36 PM
A bit of progress over the last 2 weeks.
Got the engine running and idling smoothly. I tried to take a video but my phone battery died before it saved! I had done the bench sync incorrectly but after re-reading the process I got it in the end. Put some vacuum gauges on them and they were pretty close.

Removed electrics - all going in the bin.
Removed the shocks and triple tree - the fork tubes are in bad condition. I'll either need to re-chrome them or source replacements.
Removed the rear wheel - one of the wheel spacers was missing and had been replaced with..... 3 Nuts!
and finally got the engine out. I layed the frame on its side and got it out that way. Was hard work by myself but I got there in the end.

The engine cosmetically is pretty bad. I'd like to re-paint it but I've read in many forums its not good to paint an assembled engine (shouldn't paint over gaskets and bolts and you can never get it fully clean).
I emailed a couple of blasting companies but they all said they wouldn't touch an assembled engine.

Leaves me with a couple of options.. Do a top end rebuild and get the head, barrels and cover blasted in the process - then do my best to clean and repaint the case assembled

Or completely strip the engine and get it done properly.

I think I'm going to do a top end anyway, I don't know the bikes mileage and I want to check the tensioner, rings and valves/guides.

Thoughts?

[attach=1]

On a separate note, I'm not putting this bike back to stock so will be selling/passing on a few things. Any interest in the below? If there is I'll take some photos.

Exhaust headers (550F 4-1) - they would need re-chroming and are rusted onto the collecter. I could cut it off and check the condition of it if there is any interest. I think they're just a bit rusty and don't have any dents.
Controls left and right
Seat and pan
Grab rail
Headlight ears
Chain guard
indicators





 

Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Trigger on February 18, 2019, 02:24:27 PM
Interested in the down pipes. Could you put some pictures up ?
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on February 18, 2019, 02:37:33 PM
Interested in the down pipes. Could you put some pictures up ?

Sure Trigger, it will be a little while as my mate is away now and I don't have access to the garage.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Trigger on February 18, 2019, 02:58:12 PM
Interested in the down pipes. Could you put some pictures up ?

Sure Trigger, it will be a little while as my mate is away now and I don't have access to the garage.

No worries, i can wait a little while  ;)
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on March 04, 2019, 11:56:21 AM
No worries, i can wait a little while  ;)
[/quote]

Here you go Trigger. Not in the best condition. No dents or holes but a few deeper grazes here and there.

[attach=1]
[attach=2]
[attach=3]
[attach=4]
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on March 04, 2019, 12:00:04 PM
I also have a Tank in terrible condition. No idea why anyone might want it but you never know.

[attach=1]

[attach=2]

[attach=3]

[attach=4]

[attach=5]
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Trigger on March 04, 2019, 08:13:08 PM
No worries, i can wait a little while  ;)

Here you go Trigger. Not in the best condition. No dents or holes but a few deeper grazes here and there.

[attach=1]
[attach=2]
[attach=3]
[attach=4]
[/quote]


Cheers for the pictures but, they look past the point of no return. I will keep looking
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on May 03, 2019, 08:00:40 PM
I am still working on the bike promise.

Cut out the hubs to send of for re-building with aluminium rims

[attach=3]

Made a new tab to fit the 500T tank and moved the front tank pegs

[attach=1]

Started making the seat

[attach=2]

and don't judge me on my welds.. I'm learning!

Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on September 30, 2019, 12:28:49 PM
Slow slow progress. I've never fabricated with metal before so it's taking me twice as long and I only get to work on it max 2 days a month.

Made a tray to go under the seat hump and finished making the seat, it's got a bit rusty but I'm not worried about that for now.

[attach=1]

[attach=2]

Also made a tray for the electrics.

[attach=3]

[attach=4]

You may have seen in my forum post I had some trouble with the rear hub bearing retainer (or at least Hagon did) but thanks to Chris (Moorey) that's sorted and back being built.

Collected lots of shiny parts just like you all told me not to. Most recent is this lovely top clamp from Messner moto.

[attach=5]

Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Moorey on September 30, 2019, 12:53:51 PM
Fully weld up your seams on the seat and then use a flap disc to remove excess weld. You will end up with a much nicer finish in the long run even if you are having a padded finish and you will find it far more satisfying. Not the best way to learn to weld is on your workpiece, practice, practice, practice on bits of scrap and offcuts first.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on September 30, 2019, 12:59:07 PM
Fully weld up your seams on the seat and then use a flap disc to remove excess weld. You will end up with a much nicer finish in the long run even if you are having a padded finish and you will find it far more satisfying. Not the best way to learn to weld is on your workpiece, practice, practice, practice on bits of scrap and offcuts first.

Thanks Chris, I was wondering if I should do that. I sent some pictures to the guy who's going to do the paint and he said to leave it.. but I think I'll take your advice and do that before giving it to him.

This is kind of what I'm going for if you hadn't gathered. Watching the few videos of dustin making these seats I wasn't sure if he welded the seams or not.

[attach=1]



Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Moorey on September 30, 2019, 03:13:23 PM
Fully weld up your seams on the seat and then use a flap disc to remove excess weld. You will end up with a much nicer finish in the long run even if you are having a padded finish and you will find it far more satisfying. Not the best way to learn to weld is on your workpiece, practice, practice, practice on bits of scrap and offcuts first.

Thanks Chris, I was wondering if I should do that. I sent some pictures to the guy who's going to do the paint and he said to leave it.. but I think I'll take your advice and do that before giving it to him.

This is kind of what I'm going for if you hadn't gathered. Watching the few videos of dustin making these seats I wasn't sure if he welded the seams or not.

(Attachment Link)

He must do for a paint finish. There is only about 15mins welding there with a mig for any decent welder as you have done the hard bit. Let him have it unless you want the personal satisfaction of knowing you have done it yourself, but it will take you far longer. Depends how you want to spend your time.  ;)
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on September 30, 2019, 03:59:09 PM
Didn't spot this before but is the grabrail still available, need to see if it differs from what I have now and suspect it does.

Sorry it's gone to another forum member.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on October 10, 2019, 12:13:55 PM
Wheels are back from Hagon and looking pretty

[attach=1]

Also received these from Cognito Moto

[attach=2]

Not much left to do before I can fully mock up. Just need to work out Exhaust mounting and electrics positioning.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Moorey on October 10, 2019, 01:36:19 PM
Pity about the weld marks on the retainer but that’s with them using dissimilar rods. At least you are up and running again.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: K2-K6 on October 10, 2019, 01:45:17 PM
Good result from joint efforts,  rims look good.

I was viewing the lower photo as fork yoke / triple tree items,  and couldn't work out what was going on there.  Now realised they are footrest hangers,  aren't they?  :)
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on October 10, 2019, 02:05:51 PM
I can always get another retainer at a later date if it really bothers me.

Yep, rearset brackets.  :) I was going to fabricate some but I actually want to ride the thing next year.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on January 12, 2020, 12:16:51 PM
Making a bit of headway. Sorry I've been rubbish at taking photos of progress.

This is what the bike currently looks like.

[attach=1]

I've been working on getting the foot controls sorted.

I've mocked up the rear-set on the brake side and shortened the brake rod. Unfortunately the rear brake arm and cam splines are very worn and don't really fit together anymore so I'm on the lookout for some replacements!

[attach=2]

Other work I've done is weld the battery table, battery strap hooks and solenoid mounts.

I'm converting to twin disk and have had a speedo bushing and spacer machined as per the black square motorcycles design which fits perfectly.

After I've got the foot controls sorted I'll focus on mocking up the wiring and the front brakes.

Some issues I need to overcome is the kickstarter hitting the brake and moving the tank petcock bung forward as it currently fouls the carbs,
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on January 13, 2020, 03:56:15 PM
Can anyone see an issue with this wiring diagram? I amended the Revival cycles one.

[attach=1]
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: SteveW on January 13, 2020, 07:11:56 PM
Clutch switch?
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Lobo on January 15, 2020, 10:55:54 PM
...the coils are earthed?
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Bryanj on January 16, 2020, 12:24:44 AM
Nope, primaries via points, secondaries not but the steel mounting is bolted to the frame and an earth wire connects there as well
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on January 16, 2020, 07:41:01 AM
They were drawn with earth's on the revival cycles diagram. I assumed the way they bolted to the frame handled the earth anyway.

Don't think I'm going to run a clutch or kick stand switch.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Bryanj on January 16, 2020, 08:03:48 AM
Didnt have a kickstand switch
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Lobo on January 17, 2020, 01:16:48 AM
Hey Bryan,
Certainly on the 400F the HT coils are not earthed to the frame; I’ve my bike in bits at the mo and your post intrigued me so I bloody had to isolate them (!) - and sure enough it runs with them sitting on a rag.
I’m guessing it’s due the dual spark build nature.
An ohm meter across earth and a plug gives open circuit, and across the both plugs gives abouts 22kOhms.
Simon
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Bryanj on January 17, 2020, 09:23:34 AM
Correct Simon, one of the other Japanese big 4 had it in their service schedule that when sparks plugs were cleaned at 6,000 miles you should swop 1&4 and 2&3 over to even out erosion wear as one plug sparks from the centre electrode to earth tang and the other one from earth tang to centre electrode. I have no idea if this is true and we never did it just fitted new anyway
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on January 17, 2020, 09:29:09 AM
Interesting. I won't be grinding down the powder coat where the coil mounts bolt to the frame then.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Bryanj on January 17, 2020, 09:41:42 AM
But unfortunately you need to as there is a small earth wire that fixes on the coil mouting bracket and if it doesnt connect properly you get all sorts of odd problems, same as RH rear engine mount needs to have no paint either side where it touces engine case or you will melt the loom when you use the starter!!
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on January 17, 2020, 09:45:29 AM
Brian is that the smaller green earth in the original wiring loom you're referring to? I'm ditching the original loom and running an M unit.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Bryanj on January 17, 2020, 09:48:02 AM
Yesit is
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on March 31, 2020, 04:04:11 PM
Thought I would post some long overdue pics of my very slow progress.

New Reg/Rec placement

[attach=1]

Battery and Starter Solenoid mounted

[attach=2]

Speedometer Bracket made and mounted, Needs cleaning up and painting

[attach=3]

Going to change the headlight brackets so they fit the smaller headlight better. I don't like the look of the spacers.

[attach=4]

[attach=5]



Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on March 31, 2020, 04:05:09 PM
[attach=1]

Ignore the droopy brake lever...

[attach=2]
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Bryanj on March 31, 2020, 05:39:13 PM
Looks OK but as a qualified luddite i am afraid i dont trust these electronic things on vibratory old bikes, i know old brits are worse but hey thats me
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on April 01, 2020, 09:11:50 AM
Looks OK but as a qualified luddite i am afraid i dont trust these electronic things on vibratory old bikes, i know old brits are worse but hey thats me

Well I know it's not going to be to everyone's taste. There are a lot of purists on here that will be cringing I'm sure.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Bryanj on April 01, 2020, 09:40:27 AM
Not purist by anymeans just see lots of questions on combined reg/rec not working and m units not behaving. Oh and lithium batteries dying
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on May 29, 2020, 09:03:57 PM
So its been a while since I posted. Not been able to get to the garage as its not at my house.
Took the opportunity today to start stripping the engine. It doesn't look good. I've not rebuilt a 4 stroke engine before but I can see that there is some serious ware here. Can someone advise how bad it is and what can be saved if anything..

All of the valves have the same indents on them.

[attach=1]

[attach=2]

[attach=3]

[attach=4]

[attach=5]



Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on May 29, 2020, 09:06:59 PM
All the cam lobes have similar pitting.

[attach=1]

[attach=2]

[attach=3]




Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Nurse Julie on May 29, 2020, 10:23:41 PM
The valves do have indents in them and the indents should be there. So, one less thing to worry about 😊
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Trigger on May 30, 2020, 12:17:49 AM
It is hard to tell from just pictures. On the cam journals in the head, run your finger nail across and feel for any ridges.
The valve can be removed and the best way to clean the carbon off without damaging the valve is soak them in thinners for a hour or so and they will wipe clean.
The pistons look shot but, new oversize pistons and rings will sort that.
The pitting on the cam lobe's look very pitted and will pick up again when the engine is run.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on May 30, 2020, 06:37:46 AM
Thanks for the replies Trigger and Julie. Glad the valves are supposed to have the indents! I've been soaking up information on rebuilding a SOHC engine for years in preparation for this stage and never noticed the indents before.

There didn't seem to be ridges in the journals, they just look worn.
On the cam, When you say pick up again do you mean get worse? I guess I need a new cam if so. Can another F1 cam slot straight in?

I was hoping to avoid splitting the cases but if the top end is this worn I had better check the bearings in the bottom end too.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Bryanj on May 30, 2020, 07:29:20 AM
All 500 and 550 cams are the same but check out the pads on the rocker arms as well.
Looks to me like oil left in too long.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on May 30, 2020, 07:39:33 AM
Thanks Bryanj I'll get searching for a new cam.

The pads on the rocker arms have no pitting on them so I think they're ok, unless there's something else I should check?
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on June 10, 2020, 06:05:16 PM
Preparing to get parts together to tackle the bottom end.

Can anyone point me in the right direction for a list of tools I'll need to take it apart?

I guess I'll need a blind bearing puller.
The rotor removal tool

I have a telescopic magnet thing for the dowels etc
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on June 10, 2020, 07:03:33 PM
What about the case bearings? Don't you need a blind puller/slide hammer for those?
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Bryanj on June 11, 2020, 07:15:39 AM
You dont need a puller for the primary shaft, remove the oil pump and use a soft drift on the end of the shaft you can see. As to the rotor, before i bought the correct tools i used to take the crank to my local Honda dealer and give him a few pounds to just pull the rotor. Dave Silver sells the genuine Honda tool which pulls all Honda rotors for about £40 from memory and i think he does a pattern one as well cheaper.
I find the cross shaped ones easier to use than just the bolt ones.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on June 11, 2020, 09:45:30 AM
Thanks for the tips guys.

Sounds like I don't need any fancy tools really. I'll try the rear wheel spindle trick, I saw someone on Youtube doing that on a CB650.
I've bought some parts organisers, a fresh box of freezer bags and some JIS impact bits so I should be good to go.

No doubt I'll have more questions. I'll post pics as I go.

Sending the frame, tank and seat off next week for paint/powder which is exciting.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Bryanj on June 11, 2020, 04:34:33 PM
Ive never had one that tight and always have brass rod of assorted sizes in toolbox, sorry not brass Admiralty Bronze and no im not saying where from!
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on September 06, 2020, 07:45:09 PM
Well finally after moving house and now having my own garage and workshop setup I took the plunge ans split the cases.

[attach=1]

Lots of sludge in the bottom but no surprises really. Gears and dogs all look in good condition. No play in the bearings.

Do these shells look like they can be re-used? I'll just post a few images as they're all similar.

[attach=2]

[attach=3]

[attach=4]

[attach=5]

Also, I want to get the engine cases, head etc painted, the barrels re-bored and a slightly damaged fin repaired. Is there a one-stop shop that someone can recommend to do this for me?

Cheers
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Bryanj on September 06, 2020, 08:34:35 PM
See Trigger for the work and those shells are not the best but OK to use if the clance platigauges ok
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on September 14, 2020, 12:13:05 PM
Before I send the engine parts off for acid dipping,  Is this an issue? I felt no play in the bearings when the cases were together but these look pretty worn.

[attach=1]

[attach=2]

I also can't get that bearing dowel pin out. Tried heat and pliers.





Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Bryanj on September 14, 2020, 01:31:20 PM
As long as you have the locating pegs and half rings it should br ok
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on September 14, 2020, 02:37:07 PM
Yeah I thought it looked like it has been spinning.

There was a mess of oil and crud by the sprocket, hard to tell if it was from the chain or not though. I was wondering if someone else had been into it as there was a fair amount of sealant and it is brown in colour.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Trigger on September 14, 2020, 05:42:26 PM
Only two things cause that surface damage, 1) the cases were not bolted down or 2) the bearing seized and spun in the cases  ;)
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on September 16, 2020, 07:33:07 PM
Hopefully someone can advise me here.

I want to paint the engine. Countless posts have said not to get it blasted with any medium because of the complicated oil galleries and acid dipping is the way to go. I found a company who can do cast aluminium safely: surfaceprocessing.co.uk but I'm in London and they're in the Midlands.

Does anyone know a place near London? Everyone I speak to says 'you don't acid dip engine cases!' To anyone who has posted a disassembled engine before, what's the way to go? Separate boxes? 

Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Nurse Julie on September 16, 2020, 10:05:45 PM
Ideally, you need a large, heavy duty box. Wrap each part of the engine in bubble wrap, then wrap cardboard around it and pack into the box with extra packing to stop movement. Get a box that you can close secure with cable ties. Something similar to this :-

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on September 21, 2020, 11:25:03 AM
This engine just gets better and better.

No idea how I didn't notice this before.

[attach=1]

[attach=2]

[attach=3]
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Bryanj on September 21, 2020, 11:47:48 AM
From memory i dont think that matters as the cam chain is enclosed and the head bolts sealed
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: AshimotoK0 on September 21, 2020, 01:49:05 PM
I am not so sure that the 'acid' dipping is actually acid but is something like dichloromethane (methylene chloride) / de-carbonizing agent  mixture that removes stubborn carbon deposited in the 'pits' of the casting  too.

I think any kind of real 'acid' would be a most definite no-no, however mild it is..... but what I described above  should be perfectly acceptable.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on September 21, 2020, 02:26:08 PM
Seem to recall they are meant to be there for oil drainage back to the sump.

Ok checking other images (which I probably should have done first) it does look like they are supposed to be there. They are just so uneven they don't look like they are meant to be.

Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: K2-K6 on September 21, 2020, 03:05:10 PM
Seem to recall they are meant to be there for oil drainage back to the sump.

Ok checking other images (which I probably should have done first) it does look like they are supposed to be there. They are just so uneven they don't look like they are meant to be.

Aren't they going the other way?  Just crankcase air vents leading to the air plenum and vent hose on top of engine.

Most engines vent out from highest point to avoid as much as possible the risk of pushing oil out under "ahem" extreme use.  :)

The cover over the cam chain acts as a baffle to prevent oil flinging too.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on December 22, 2020, 10:55:31 AM
Been falling behind on posting progress, but with all the time given back to me this Christmas I hope to make some headway and will post up some pics (and some questions no doubt).

I got the frame, tank and seat back from LV customs, I'm sure it wont be to everyone's taste, but I'm very happy with it.

[attach=1]

[attach=2]
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: simonc on December 22, 2020, 11:27:06 AM
paint looks good
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on January 04, 2021, 07:19:46 PM
The bike is finally starting to look like a bike again.

[attach=1]

[attach=2]

I've painted the engine cases using Simoniz engine enamel and baked them in the oven at 220 for an hour and a half.

[attach=3]

I have torqued the case halfs down with the 8mm bolts to 17 ft-lbs checked the crank bearings with plastigauge and as far as I can tell using the gauge on the packet the numbers come out as follows:

1: .038
2: .038
3: .051
4: .051
5: .051

As the clearance tolerance  is 0.08 I think I'm good?

There feels like very little play on the rods too (none vertically), is it worth checking them? I've read that I'd need to order new bolts if I do as they stretch when torqued.

I've had to order a new 16005 bearing as the one in the engine was notchy and looks a little rusty inside. The rest all seem fine.

What else should I be checking before attempting re-assembly?

Thanks in advance!

Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Nurse Julie on January 04, 2021, 07:40:52 PM
You don't need to fit new bolts, it would be a very expensive process if you bought new ones each time you torqued for measuring. The bike is looking good.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on January 04, 2021, 07:51:26 PM
Yes I have new primary chain and cam chain and also new dampers to install.

It does make sense to change the bearings as I'm In there, I've gone this far! I know the marks on the crank is supposed to be difficult to see but I can't see anything!

Good news on the Rod bolts, I'll do that. What is the clearance for plasitgauge?
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on January 04, 2021, 09:13:14 PM
Thanks oddjob, I'll give it a go. Where are the markings usually? Are they separate on each counterweight or all together?
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on January 05, 2021, 11:11:03 AM
Thanks Oddjob. I still can't see them.

Heres some pictures, hopefully you can see something I cant!

High res: https://photos.app.goo.gl/xcCaiNHT7C3XhXyh8

[attach=1]

[attach=2]

[attach=3]

[attach=4]

[attach=5]
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on January 05, 2021, 11:11:24 AM
[attach=1]
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: MrDavo on January 05, 2021, 12:18:28 PM
I had to find a set of these markings on a CB750 crank that I got from Ashimoto, the only way I could see them was when I took the crank outside into direct sunlight. Suddenly, there they were!

You are looking for grafitti like scrawly scratches, rather than neat stampings, its only a surface scratch, they aren't very deep. It wasn't something I could have taken a picture of anyway, but I have a sneaky feeling that the marks on my crank were on one of the inner cheeks, so its not a given that they are on the outside. maybe it depends who did them, and how bored they were at the time.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on January 05, 2021, 01:32:32 PM
Thanks Davo, Yeah I saw Hakaweek's videos and his 750 marks were on the inside web. Mine looks like it got hot at some point so if it was there, you cant see it anymore.

Apologies for all the photos!

[attach=1]

Cant see anything on the others either.

[attach=2]

[attach=3]

[attach=4]

[attach=5]

Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on January 05, 2021, 01:33:59 PM
Also, Here's the Rod bearings.

[attach=1]
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on January 05, 2021, 03:58:28 PM
God it's like those magic eye pictures you used to get in the paper, I could never see them either.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Bryanj on January 05, 2021, 04:35:15 PM
Other answer is to find somebody really good with a micrometer as you need accurate measurements to 1000th of a mm which is not easy, the factory used air gauges where you have a tightish fitting clamp over the pin and put a know air pressure through jets on the arms, more clearance = bigger gap and air gauge cal be callibrated in sizes.
I have in the past fitted all blacks and run the engine in for 500 miles, it does work---racers used to fit all greens i think for more clearance.
Remember Honda used to build these with clearances as if it had already been run in and the surfaces just needed final bedding in
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Nurse Julie on January 05, 2021, 04:56:27 PM
God it's like those magic eye pictures you used to get in the paper, I could never see them either.
Taking a photo with a flash also helps find them after wiping the area with petrol.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: K2-K6 on January 05, 2021, 05:26:00 PM

[attachimg=1]

For a little training

 ;D a shark going from right to left,  in smarties.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on January 05, 2021, 06:00:46 PM
Haha what shark!!!

Nope I can't see anything. And now I'm high on petrol fumes.

Last load of pictures promise. If you can't see anything either am I better using the original or going all green with graphogen?

[attach=1]

[attach=2]

[attach=3]

[attach=4]
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on January 06, 2021, 04:57:30 PM
Hmm interesting. So you can see some colour on No 3,4 and 5 bottom bearings. In real life they look more brown than this, but it could be black thats lost some pigment. They all look the same colour but No 5 is most visible.
There is no colour visible on 1 and 2 bearings.

[attach=1]

The markings on the case are BBAAA, I know without the numbers that doesn't mean anything though.




Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on January 07, 2021, 09:35:27 AM
Ok thanks again for the advice oddjob. If the ones next to the rotor are brown (1 and 2), strange you cant see the colour on them but that bearings 3-5 do look brown!

Bearings are coming out at £142 on CMSNL. Any other cheaper sources you know of before I take the plunge? DSS only has greens and are a similar price anyway.

Thanks for the advice and putting up with all the Crankshaft pics!

Do the rod bearings look ok?
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on January 07, 2021, 04:34:36 PM
Oh man, ok. All rods are E2.

 
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on January 07, 2021, 08:37:16 PM
Actually the colour is clearly visible on the rod bearings. All brown. Do you think I should order 8 then or just 4?
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on January 08, 2021, 09:00:43 AM
Hey, some people like to collect penny blacks, others, black bearing shells.  ;D

OK, I've ordered 8 brown rod bearings, 4 brown and 6 green crank bearings. I imagine they will take some time to arrive..

Thanks for all the advice oddjob.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on February 09, 2021, 05:57:23 PM
So I've finally got the bearings I ordered.
Actually I got double the order as cms took weeks and it didn't look like it was going to happen so I cancelled the order and ordered for more money from DS. Both ordered turned up within a day of eachother! Ah well, I can send one back.

Unbelievably, having now taken the old bearings out of the cases, they are clearly ALL browns. The case markings are BBAAA so if as oddjob says, the A's must be either green or yellow, someone must have had this engine open before and installed all browns.

What should I do! If I open both orders from CMS and DS to check tolerances with both green/brown and all brown I can't return the bearings.

Does make me wonder whether the rods which had all browns were right either.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on February 09, 2021, 07:13:13 PM
Well, I have just put the old bearings in and 2 of the new brown bearings on 5 and 6 where the greens are supposed to be.

[attach=1]

Not great.

Also I have just noticed this.

[attach=2]

[attach=3]

Feeling a little deflated.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Bryanj on February 09, 2021, 08:23:07 PM
The main i would live with but the big end is junk
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on February 09, 2021, 08:24:55 PM
What are my options
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Johnny4428 on February 09, 2021, 09:10:03 PM
Feel your pain eight0, is that also pitting where the crankshaft seal sits? Wish I could give you something positive.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Bryanj on February 10, 2021, 12:28:31 AM
Only option is different crank. 500 and 550 are the same so should be a few out there, dont think i got a spare as too many projects
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on February 10, 2021, 09:50:48 AM
well, the condition of the engine lives up to the threads title I guess.

I've ordered another crank from DK which also has the rods with it. You never know, the bearings on those rods might be re-usable.

Without sending the cases and crank to a machine shop to get measures for clearance, my plan is to put all the old brown bearings in to see how off they are using plasitguage and go from there.



Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Trigger on February 10, 2021, 01:17:47 PM
You can not go by crank markings. The Honda Manuel is reference to new parts only and not to something that has done 50,000 to 80,000 miles with wear and tear  ;) 
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on February 11, 2021, 02:59:08 PM
The 'new' crank arrived. Much easier to see the markings.

From left to right. 21112

[attach=1]

[attach=2]

My case is BBAAA so with the new crank it should be brown, green, yellow, yellow, green. 

I put the crank in with all the old brown bearings and the plasitgauge measured .51 .51 .51 .38 .51

I put a new brown bearing on just to see if there is much difference.

[attach=3]

Maybe I'm best off just installing browns all round. What do you think?


Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on February 11, 2021, 05:37:34 PM
Thanks Ken, that might work if you have that many yellows!

No, not corrosion, just some dirt. I hadn't cleaned it yet when I took those pics.

Yeah rod bearings all need replacing.

They are all marked 1 on the rod and BAAA on the crank so I make that green, and 3x yellow.

I bought all browns!

Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Bryanj on February 12, 2021, 12:58:00 PM
Thats cos people like me just fitted black shells and ran the in carefull Ken
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: SumpMagnet on February 12, 2021, 01:24:11 PM
all this talk of cranks has got me jittery! My 750 one was mothballed when I started my project, and I had to go and check it was all OK! Mind you...I laid it to rest with more care than a Pharoah got, doused in embalming oil, wrapped in oil soaked rags, carefully bound up in a bubble wrap sarcophagus, wrapped in polythene....all I needed was a pyramid! Felt like a tomb robber opening it up....but it was fine.. Then I had to 're bury' it!
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on February 12, 2021, 02:41:17 PM
Thanks for the advice again and for checking Ken, I'll PM you and we can arrange something.

I'm pretty sure the pitting to the original crank wasn't there when I took it apart, I'd left it on a shelf in a carrier bag for a while and although covered in oil it still rusted so your carefulness is definitely warranted sumpmagnet!
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: philward on February 12, 2021, 04:56:07 PM
Sorry mate, I have 4 black, 4 green and 4 brown rod shells, no yellow.

You can either search for 13218-323-003 or 13218-426-003 as they are the same part. However after doing some searching myself they are either in short supply or they want a lot for them. CMS want almost 20 euros for one.

I'd fit all greens, the price drops to 11 euros for a green shell. If you ordered the browns from CMS you could see if they will exchange them for 8 greens. same for DS although he wants more money for a green shell than CMS.

If your ordering some greens could you add 4 green shells for me to the order and I'll pay you when they arrive or beforehand if you'd like.

Offer still stands for the yellow mains, even though these are really scarce now it's fine doing a straight swap with your browns, I'll find a use for the browns somewhere.

I wonder how much DS would offer for some black mains, I'm betting his offer would be well below what they are worth. Due to how scarce they are I'm betting you could sell them at £30 each inc P&P and still find buyers who want them
Ken, does's Honda still make all the crank/rod shells or are some shell colours old stock? The reason I ask is when I ordered shells from DS recently (order was just the shells with no other items) and the order was delayed as on back order (ordered as DS online showed in stock). I rang local Honda dealer as I thought DS was expensive (compared to CMSL) and they said they could order them (Brown and green from memory).
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: philward on February 12, 2021, 05:39:42 PM
So would the Wigan Honda dealer have gone to DS or CMSL? Price quoted was exactly same as DS
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on February 12, 2021, 05:42:28 PM
Not sure if it helps. But whilst I was waiting for the CMS order to ship I ordered the same from DS who didn't have the bearings in stock. They said they had to order them from EU. I asked if it was CMS they were getting them from and they said no. The order arrived in 3 days and before the original CMS order.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on February 20, 2021, 05:09:17 PM
Thanks to OddJob i finally have the bearings I need.
Been busy zinc plating the case bolts and washers and got most of the internals assembled. Before I attempt to mate the cases, can anyone see anything incorrect?

[attach=1]

[attach=2]

Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Bryanj on February 20, 2021, 05:27:32 PM
Is that the transmision oil pump hole i can see on a needle brg or the dowel not located? Knowing you i suspect the former but have to ask
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on February 20, 2021, 05:44:14 PM
The bearing is located in the dowel. That's the transmission oil pump hole. That's correct right?
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Bryanj on February 20, 2021, 08:30:55 PM
I do more 500 than 550 and that is one of the few differences so just being super aware is all
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on February 20, 2021, 09:32:52 PM
Thanks Ken. Yeah I hadn't added the crank at the point I took the photos.
Here it is as it stands now

[attach=1]
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on February 20, 2021, 09:43:12 PM
Riiight. Now I've got you. Ok I'll give that a go
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on February 21, 2021, 09:58:07 AM
You mean this thrust washer?

[attach=1]
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on February 21, 2021, 10:45:16 AM
Right I think I'm ready to do this. Last minute check to see if those more experienced can spot anything wrong.
I don't need to put hondabond on the crank posts (not sure what they're called) do I?

[attach=1]

[attach=2]
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: hairygit on February 21, 2021, 11:21:10 AM
Just a VERY thin smear on the outer pair.

Sent from my POT-LX1 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: philward on February 21, 2021, 11:26:44 AM
Hairy has beat me to it - just done mine.mere'st smear on outer eadge of crankcase surface
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on February 21, 2021, 04:59:51 PM
Success!!!

[attach=1]

Thanks for the help everyone.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: K2-K6 on February 21, 2021, 05:40:12 PM
Nice work, great when a project gets into the building phase too.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on February 21, 2021, 06:02:08 PM
Nope, it was really easy. So much easier than the way I was going to do it.

Couldn't help mocking it up. Still need to paint the head.

[attach=1]
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: SteveD CB500K0 on February 22, 2021, 07:56:08 AM
Isn’t that a Zero logo?

Going electric?


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Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on February 22, 2021, 09:09:44 AM
An 0 in an eight sided shape. ;)

My surname is Hayto. My grandad used to make home cine films and call them 'eight-0 films' so that's where it came from.
This bikes not one I'm planning on selling.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: SteveD CB500K0 on February 22, 2021, 11:05:21 AM
I was wrong anyway

It’s a Z in a 0

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210222/f441713e7437002d080d201ac5c53d95.jpg)


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Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on February 23, 2021, 07:17:44 PM
Got the pistons on. Is there a desired order of piston ring gaps in terms of orientation?

And before anyone says I have the pistons in the wrong order.. the machinist couldn't work out which was the front of the block so labelled them back to front.

[attach=1]
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on February 24, 2021, 09:08:20 AM
Thanks Ken. No, not genuine, they are from DS. I do regret not spending a bit more on the pistons. I got the machinist to bore all to 0.25 over and as a last minute thought when I went to collect it gave him a piston to check all was good.
It was out by a 'few thou' apparently. I gave him all four pistons and none of them fit. Luckily they were all larger than they should be so he was able to save it and re-bore each cylinder to match each piston and did it without charge.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on February 26, 2021, 01:16:07 PM
I just got the barrels on, but it was really tough to get it on. Pistons 2 and 3 go in fine, then the outer ones really seem to seaze it up. I had to really tapp it down with some wood but I cannot turn it over and have all 4 pistons move, the middle two do but the outer ones seem stuck. Should they be that stiff?

I took it off after the first time because I was worried I was jamming a ring into the wall, but everything looked fine.

I guess when I bolt the head on and am able to use more force they would move.

[attach=1]
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: mickwinf on February 26, 2021, 02:46:40 PM
there is something wrong if it wont turn over easily, has the cam chain jammed at the crank end? you would have to hold it up and make sure it is on the teeth on the crank.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on February 26, 2021, 02:51:13 PM
It turns over fine, it's definitely the pistons that are holding it up.

When put some force into it, pistons 2 and 3 move but rather than pistons 1 and 4 moving, it lifts the whole head up
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Nurse Julie on February 26, 2021, 02:55:45 PM
With your hand on the barrels with all your body weight holding the barrels down, the crank should rotate and the pistons should go up and down easily. Did you oil the bores and what was the piston to bore clearance done at when re bored?
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on February 26, 2021, 02:56:13 PM
In fact, you can actually see the pistons 1 and 4 are not centered whilst 3 is. (Ignore the numbers written on the pistons)

[attach=1]

[attach=2]

[attach=3]
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on February 26, 2021, 03:04:01 PM
I did lubricate them yeah. Just managed to get it to turn over a bit easier doing as you say Julie, but it still seems a lot harder than it should be. 
I gave the machinist a print out from the shop manual so I would hope the clearance was done to spec. Maybe I should check the ring gaps.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Nurse Julie on February 26, 2021, 03:07:18 PM
I did lubricate them yeah. Just managed to get it to turn over a bit easier doing as you say Julie, but it still seems a lot harder than it should be. 
I gave the machinist a print out from the shop manual so I would hope the clearance was done to spec. Maybe I should check the ring gaps.
If they are original Honda pistons, then yes, the spec in the Shop Manual will be correct. If they are aftermarket, the spec in the Manual is of no relevance. Although you wouldn't really notice the difference until the engine is running and hot.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on February 26, 2021, 03:14:06 PM
They are aftermarket, but he rebored each one to match each piston so the clearance was to the spec in the manual.

Or am I not following you..
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Nurse Julie on February 26, 2021, 03:18:02 PM
They are aftermarket, but he rebored each one to match each piston so the clearance was to the spec in the manual.

Or am I not following you..
Different piston manufacturers have different specifications for their piston to bore clearance depending on alloy / silicone ratio. But, it really should only be evident when the engine is hot for the 1st time after rebore. This is when the engine will seize due to not enough piston / bore clearance when everything expands. Have you checked that you have the con rods on the crank the correct way round?.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on February 26, 2021, 04:15:06 PM
I really hope so. I put them back on the same way they were on. Letters facing forward, numbers backwards.

You can just make it out in this photo.

[attach=1]
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: philward on February 26, 2021, 04:34:01 PM
Conrods should be installed with 'bearing key' facing forward - 'bearing key' is the bearing locating notches

Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on February 26, 2021, 04:54:06 PM
I can't say for certain then. I put them on how they were but as I bought the replacement crank from DK maybe they had removed them and put them back on the other way around.

Guess that means I'll have to split the cases again.

Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: philward on February 26, 2021, 05:20:32 PM
If they had been messed with prior to you getting them, the people who messed with them would have had to have put all 4 rods on 180 degrees wrong as you say the letters were all facing forward - ie, all 4 are either all facing right way or all 4 all facing wrong way.
I have just done my 500 (that is I have just fitted barrel) and can't remember whether letters were forward or back facing - only that the letters were all facing the same way.
I would suspect the piston/barrel tolerances and take piston off and insert pistom/rings into the barrel off the rod to check for tightness - that will isolate the source of the tightness. You can check tolerances at this stage either way
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on February 26, 2021, 05:30:27 PM
Hang on. I've just found a photo from when i received the crank. I think I've messed up. This would be numbers forward wouldn't it?
It's been a long week.

[attach=1]
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on February 26, 2021, 05:48:24 PM
Thanks for the help so far everyone.

Yes it span smoothly without resistance. I'll check end gap tomorrow and post the results.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on February 26, 2021, 05:49:32 PM

Thanks for the help so far everyone.

Yes it span smoothly without resistance. I'll check end gap tomorrow and post the results.

The odd thing is the fact the outer pistons don't seem centered to the bores
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on February 26, 2021, 05:58:02 PM
Yeah, seriously regretting it now.
They were piston kits from DS, including the rings, pin and circlips.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on February 27, 2021, 03:55:16 PM
The rings are marked R 25.

Just checked the ring gap and it's .30 on all cylinders
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on February 27, 2021, 06:55:55 PM
Mm
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Bryanj on February 27, 2021, 07:40:14 PM
Thats right Ken, i inherited a Van Norman and bought  an SPS. Both fit on the same table but cutters are different
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on February 27, 2021, 08:08:19 PM
Ok I'll remove the pistons and see what they're like in the bores without the rings.

I'm at a loss for what to do here now to be honest.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on February 28, 2021, 11:55:25 AM
I've pulled the head again and checked the piston that was hanging up the most.

Without the rings it drops through. With the rings it's really tight, but maybe it's supposed to be this tight?

https://youtu.be/glUKwGO5nxU

Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Nurse Julie on February 28, 2021, 12:18:38 PM
I've pulled the head again and checked the piston that was hanging up the most.

Without the rings it drops through. With the rings it's really tight, but maybe it's supposed to be this tight?

https://youtu.be/glUKwGO5nxU
No, that is definitely not right.
Edit... Difficult to see on the vid but there appears to be a big gap fore and aft, piston to barrel. Have you tried that piston in another bore?
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on February 28, 2021, 12:27:07 PM
It looks like there's a gap because of the taper at the bottom of the barrel.
Good to know that shouldn't be like that I guess. I was contemplating cracking the cases again. If I have to get more pistons and another rebore then so be it. I'm this deep in.

Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Nurse Julie on February 28, 2021, 12:31:10 PM
It looks like there's a gap because of the taper at the bottom of the barrel.
Good to know that shouldn't be like that I guess. I was contemplating cracking the cases again. If I have to get more pistons and another rebore then so be it. I'm this deep in.
I would start by taking it back to the machine shop that did the work. They did the work, they can measure everything up again and advise.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on February 28, 2021, 12:46:00 PM
Thanks for the advice Julie.

I'll go over there tomorrow. Seems odd that the ring gap is in spec and the pistons fall through without the rings bit it's still binding.

Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself ine for) Project
Post by: Nurse Julie on February 28, 2021, 12:51:29 PM
Thanks for the advice Julie.

I'll go over there tomorrow. Seems odd that the ring gap is in spec and the pistons fall through without the rings bit it's still binding.
Let us know how you get on.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Nurse Julie on February 28, 2021, 01:58:24 PM
Just one other thought, have you got the compression and scraper rings in the right way up 🤔
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on February 28, 2021, 02:48:15 PM
The writing is facing upwards. That's correct right?
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Nurse Julie on February 28, 2021, 03:00:51 PM
The writing is facing upwards. That's correct right?
Yes, correct.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Bryanj on February 28, 2021, 06:27:34 PM
Its possible but very rare that the ring groove is not machined deep enough, try clamping them with a jubilee clip carefully
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Laverda Dave on February 28, 2021, 06:49:36 PM
Is the oil scrapper ring in three pieces? Sometimes the very thin top and bottom rings don't sit fully in the ring groove due to the centre ring taking up most of the space. This happened to be with the RSA piston, it was very tight in the bore but fine when the rings were not fitted. It turned out to be the lower scrapper ring sitting slightly proud as it was sitting against the centre scrapper section at the back. I think I read it on the forum the best way to fit a three part oil ring is to fit the upper and lower rings first followed by the centre scrapper part. Maybe worth a try.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Nurse Julie on February 28, 2021, 07:34:47 PM
There is a Forum member called Ashdowner, Andy, who had exactly the same problem with a set of 550/4 K3 pistons / rings (or maybe just rings, I can't quite remember now) that he bought from Silver. It almost drove him mad as he couldn't get the 'sandwich' together on the oil rings at all. He even sent them back to Silvers and they said they were fine. In the end, he fitted a set from another supplier or fitted the old ones and they fitted just fine.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on March 01, 2021, 10:46:03 AM
Ok breakthrough moment.

I tested each ring individually. Top two are fine but the oil rings are the issue. I tried with just one of the thin rings either side of the oil scraper and no difference.

I tried the two old pistons thin oil scraper rings and.. no binding.

Now I guess I could carefully file down the new rings, but can I or should I use the old thin rings, bearing in mind they are not oversized.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Bryanj on March 01, 2021, 11:26:32 AM
No complain to supplier that either the rings are wrong or the piston incorrectly machined, if you have bored the block you cant use standard rings without oil burning and mucho smoko
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on March 01, 2021, 11:30:49 AM
Didn't think so. Just to clarify, I only meant using the old thin bottom two rings not the top thick ones.

What are they going to offer though? All the rings can't have the same issue surely. If they give me a complete new set I'd have to get a rebore done again and probably at .50.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on March 01, 2021, 11:48:52 AM
There's still another problem besides this. I test fitted the pistons and barrels to see if, without them binding as much it would turn over ok.

[attach=1]

Both outer pistons are still not centered. On piston 1 The inner side has +.60 clearance and on the other side I can't get a .05 feeler in the gap. It's the opposite with number 4. Gap is on the outside.

Sorry for the flurry of messages over the last couple of days. I took Friday and Monday off work to make some progress and this has stopped me in my tracks. I appreciate all the help.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Laverda Dave on March 01, 2021, 11:51:42 AM
Have you tried swapping the oil rings around between the pistons? This will tell you if it's the piston ring gap not having enough depth or if it's the actual rings at fault. The 250RS piston I had a similar issue with was a pattern part from DSS. I can't remember the actual make but it was pattern but not IMD or Cruzinimage. I remember it was in a blue and white box though.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Laverda Dave on March 01, 2021, 11:54:48 AM
I would also try swapping the outside pistons with the inside pistons for a comparison and to confirm if it's the bore or the piston at fault. I'd also swap the con rods over for the same reason. Obviously don't run it like that it's just for comparison purposes at this stage.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Bryanj on March 01, 2021, 11:57:05 AM
You say 0.6 and 0.05 so total of 0.65 and if that is mm its over 20 thou or way to much.
OR  are you measuring at crown not skirt.
Only reason i can think of for piston to be at angle is either bad piston machining or bored at an angle
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Laverda Dave on March 01, 2021, 11:57:50 AM
Have you tried swapping the oil rings around between the pistons? This will tell you if it's the piston ring gap not having enough depth or if it's the actual rings at fault. The 250RS piston I had a similar issue with was a pattern part from DSS. I can't remember the actual make but it was pattern but not IMD or Cruzinimage. I remember it was in a blue and white box though.
I meant to say ring grove depth not gap! Although interesting to see if the ring gap is larger or smaller if fitted to another piston but in the same bore.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on March 01, 2021, 12:03:46 PM
Just tried swapping 3 and 4 and the issue with centering doesn't go away.
Yes I mean I measured the crown above the top ring not the body, just to show how much is was pressed on one side.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on March 01, 2021, 12:11:49 PM
I think I'm going to have to split the cases and double check the rods are on the correct way around. I really didn't want to have to do do it, but at this point I have to rule it out.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on March 01, 2021, 12:28:58 PM
Have you tried swapping the oil rings around between the pistons? This will tell you if it's the piston ring gap not having enough depth or if it's the actual rings at fault. The 250RS piston I had a similar issue with was a pattern part from DSS. I can't remember the actual make but it was pattern but not IMD or Cruzinimage. I remember it was in a blue and white box though.
I meant to say ring grove depth not gap! Although interesting to see if the ring gap is larger or smaller if fitted to another piston but in the same bore.

Yeah I tried different rings on the same piston and no difference. It doesn't seem to matter which combination of pistons or rings I try, the oil rings jam the pistons up.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Laverda Dave on March 01, 2021, 12:53:35 PM
That's exactly the same problem I had. I didn't know it at the time but the top oil control ring had a very slight bend on it only seen with a magnifying glass. I put this down to damage caused as a result of trying to push the piston in the bore. DSS wouldn't sell me a replacement set of rings as they were in a piston kit so I had to buy the whole set just for one ring! Strangely enough I had no issues with the new set, fitted great. I think you are going about the investigation in a thorough way by eliminating all possible causes even if it's long winded and a pia.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on March 01, 2021, 02:09:22 PM
I put one of the Conrods from my other crank on number 4 and it was fine. Took a closer look at the one I took off and... Spot the problem? Well, bugger.

[attach=1]



Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on March 01, 2021, 02:33:26 PM
Can I use my original rods?

The new crank and old rods make Brown, green green green all of which I have.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Nurse Julie on March 01, 2021, 02:36:07 PM
I put one of the Conrods from my other crank on number 4 and it was fine. Took a closer look at the one I took off and... Spot the problem? Well, bugger.

(Attachment Link)
Aaaah, the Banana con rod 😁😁😁 Rods usually bend in pairs, so it #1 rod bent as well?
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on March 01, 2021, 02:37:26 PM
Yes! Which is why the middle two pistons were centered out outside weren't.

Think it's safer to use all 4 of my old rods?
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: hairygit on March 01, 2021, 03:07:55 PM
If you have shells for them, yes. Where did you get the crank and rods from?

Sent from my POT-LX1 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on March 01, 2021, 03:10:22 PM
Crank and rods were from DK.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: hairygit on March 01, 2021, 03:24:04 PM
Call them and tell them what you found, and mention you're documenting the build on a bike forum. They seem to be pretty good at sorting problems, and may offer a partial refund or better.

Sent from my POT-LX1 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Laverda Dave on March 01, 2021, 03:38:26 PM
Well done, looks like you have solved the problem👍. This is a great thread.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on March 01, 2021, 03:40:11 PM
Thanks guys.
Well there's still the oil ring problem. On the bench the pistons were still too tight, but I'll get back to that once I've fixed the bottom end.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on March 01, 2021, 05:20:00 PM
After all that, there doesn't appear to be a problem with the rings. Replaced the rods with the ones from the old crank, luckily I had the right bearings.
Removed the chains and put a couple of bolts in the cases to test and...

https://youtu.be/9eBTKUbwU74

The moral of this story, is always check your second hand parts thoroughly.

Thanks for the advice everyone.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Nurse Julie on March 01, 2021, 05:43:10 PM
Great work and diagnostics. Now smear some oil and graphigen around the inside of the barrels.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on March 02, 2021, 07:03:46 AM
Thanks Julie. I'm pretty new to mechanics and have never taken apart an engine completely before but I do feel like a bit of a walley for not noticing the rods sooner. Ah well. Glad it's sorted now!

Put the time in yesterday to get the cases back together and back in the frame so now at least I'm back to where I started.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Bryanj on March 02, 2021, 07:55:50 AM
Looking at that ro i wouldsay its stripdown or carriage damage rather than hydraulic lock
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: philward on March 02, 2021, 10:16:47 AM
Thanks Julie. I'm pretty new to mechanics and have never taken apart an engine completely before but I do feel like a bit of a walley for not noticing the rods sooner. Ah well. Glad it's sorted now!

Put the time in yesterday to get the cases back together and back in the frame so now at least I'm back to where I started.

Don't feel a walley, we all live and learn - if you are new to mechanics, I think you have done really well with this problem in light of how unusual the issue was. I guess you have certainly learned a lot!
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Bryanj on March 02, 2021, 01:51:58 PM
I agree with that, few professional mechanics would look for bent rods unless a problem(like yours) was spotted
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on March 02, 2021, 06:27:28 PM
Thanks guys, yes certainly learnt a lot!

Does anyone have any sources for the M8x145 engine bolt? Mine is bent for some reason. They are available on CMS and DS for order from the states but there must be somewhere I can just order a flanged bolt from.. or another bike that takes the same sized  bolt.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Nurse Julie on March 02, 2021, 07:50:50 PM
Thanks guys, yes certainly learnt a lot!

Does anyone have any sources for the M8x145 engine bolt? Mine is bent for some reason. They are available on CMS and DS for order from the states but there must be somewhere I can just order a flanged bolt from.. or another bike that takes the same sized  bolt.
I will have a look to see if we have some here.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on March 03, 2021, 08:43:31 AM
Thanks guys, yes certainly learnt a lot!

Does anyone have any sources for the M8x145 engine bolt? Mine is bent for some reason. They are available on CMS and DS for order from the states but there must be somewhere I can just order a flanged bolt from.. or another bike that takes the same sized  bolt.
I will have a look to see if we have some here.

Thanks Julie, that would be great.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Nurse Julie on March 03, 2021, 09:10:48 AM
Thanks guys, yes certainly learnt a lot!

Does anyone have any sources for the M8x145 engine bolt? Mine is bent for some reason. They are available on CMS and DS for order from the states but there must be somewhere I can just order a flanged bolt from.. or another bike that takes the same sized  bolt.
I will have a look to see if we have some here.

Thanks Julie, that would be great.

Yes Adam, have one of them, I will PM you.
[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on March 04, 2021, 11:43:50 AM
DK have been pretty unhelpful about the bent rods.

I messaged them about the bent rods and they came back and offered me replacement ones. I said that I had some spares myself which I used and asked them for a partial refund.

They said 'glad you sorted it.'

I again asked for a partial refund and they said, we offered you replacement rods and you said no.

Oh well.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Laverda Dave on March 04, 2021, 12:05:56 PM
That's a great advert for customer relations!
I wouldn't let it go, you paid for a replacement part that should have been acceptable but it wasn't. The fact they offered replacement rods is immaterial. How would they know if the journal bearings were the same, you were lucky your replacements fitted with new shells.
If it was me I'd being sending them a letter as a formal request for a partial refund (you need to clearly state the level of refund you require). If they refuse advise them you will take them to the small claims court under the sale of goods act. I'd also advise them you are posting progress of your dealings with them on social media.
Their behaviour has all the hallmarks of a company that doesn't give a stuff about individuals because they have a high turnover.
Companies like these need to be held accountable for the goods they sell and their guarantee.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on March 04, 2021, 12:17:11 PM
I hear what you're saying Dave, but sometimes you just have to pick your battles. I have what I need because luckily I had the spares already as you say.
I just can't be bothered with the hassle. I paid £60 for the crank and rods so we are only talking about 20 quid max. It's just a shame they don't seem to respect the customer.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Laverda Dave on March 04, 2021, 01:51:35 PM
I understand what you are saying Andy. I just can't stand companies that act in this way just because they think they can and knowing they can get away with it.
I've never used D&K but I know a lot of forum members do. I won't be using them unless I'm desperate for a part based on your experience.
Good luck with the build 👍.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Sesman on March 04, 2021, 03:51:04 PM
I guess I’m taking a hugh risk here, but to be fair my dealings with D&K have been many and frequent in recent times and they have always been very positive. Not wanting to get into a gainsay discussion, but I would have no hesitation in using them. It’s been an unfortunate experience for eight0, but I’ll wager that the replacement crank would have been delivered next day with no requirement to return the bad items. I think eightO got it right in an earlier post...”check what you get”. I think that’s great advice and I’ll be taking it.  Second hand parts...what can you say!

No offence intended, but I thought I’d share my personnel experience. I’d alsojust like to qualify I’m a novice at this restoration game, being active for less than 3months, but haemorrhaging cash like a veteran (or is that a novice 😔). Great site by the way.

Been following the build eightO and looking forward to the first startup
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: hairygit on March 04, 2021, 03:55:25 PM
If you paid by PayPal or a credit card, you can involve them, as credit card companies and PayPal will pursue errant traders for you, worth a try and will cost you nothing,

Sent from my POT-LX1 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: sye on March 04, 2021, 04:54:51 PM
Strictly speaking DK have done nothing wrong. You have the same consumer rights buying used and new. You could have exchanged the crank or sent it back for a refund. DK offered to replace the crank rods and that was declined. They are under no obligation to do a partial refund. Could they have handled it better? Probably. Do they have to? No.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: AshimotoK0 on March 04, 2021, 05:37:41 PM
Must admit I have never had a refund from them but they have always been quick of sending decent replacements and dealt with it amazingly quickly.
I would just take them on up their offer of replacement rods and insist they ship you rods with decent little ends. Then just sell the rods on.  £60 was a pretty low price for crank & rods IMHO from a dealer/breaker.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: K2-K6 on March 04, 2021, 05:43:33 PM
Strictly speaking DK have done nothing wrong. You have the same consumer rights buying used and new. You could have exchanged the crank or sent it back for a refund. DK offered to replace the crank rods and that was declined. They are under no obligation to do a partial refund. Could they have handled it better? Probably. Do they have to? No.

I'd see it the same. They supplied 40 year old component with potential to have something wrong,  when notified they offered to replace the affected parts to make sure it met the description.  Ok, a bit of a pain that the rod was damaged, but they fully intend to place the customer into the position they were when starting the transaction.  That's difficult to argue with from a legal perspective. 

I've also been on the other side of the transaction in responding to customer complaints. A notable one of which had the customer take us to court after some extreme efforts of the company to resolve the problem.  It was found that the customer although technically right, had not taken all of the offers made to them but still proceeded in legal pursuit to demonstrate to the "company" that they are not to be messed with.  Questioned about the price the customer had paid, it amounted to something like £11.60 which they where awarded. Costs for each side were their own  :o which was quite a sobering experience for them.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: philward on March 04, 2021, 06:00:57 PM
Why don't you get a replacement and re-sell on ebay to cut your losses? (Its unlikely that the second lot will be duff too). When I built my CR750 Rep, I built it from scratch starting with a frame from DK, the first frame they sent had crushed downtubes (from Windjammer fairing brackets) - DK sent a replacement and didn't want the original frame back. Maybe they won't want your duff parts back which will save you the postage.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on March 04, 2021, 06:55:50 PM
Interesting to see the different perspectives. I'm not all that bothered, if it wasn't for companies like DK it would make it very difficult to keep these bikes alive.
We're only talking about a small amount of money here and as mentioned I thought the price for the crank and rods was quite reasonable. I don't think I'll take it any further, I have what I need and I can't be bothered with getting the extra rods and selling them.

In terms of progress, I've just masked up the head and brought it into the house to warm up in prep for painting and plan to do that and assemble it this weekend.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on March 05, 2021, 11:48:57 AM
Question about curing paint.

Will the head be ok in the oven to cure the paint? I don't want the valve guides to fall out or the valve guide seals damaged.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Trigger on March 05, 2021, 02:17:05 PM
Valve guides will not fall out but, no good with stem seals on or valves or springs in the head  ;)
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on March 05, 2021, 02:22:49 PM
Thanks Graham. Valves are not in the head, just the guides. Just wanted to check and make sure.

[attach=1]

Came out nice.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on March 06, 2021, 11:55:05 AM
Going to post as I go today in case anyone is able to stop me doing anything wrong before I go to far.

Valves in

[attach=1]

Head gasket and seals on.

[attach=2]

Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on March 06, 2021, 12:14:27 PM
Haha very good.

Good tip. Just checked and no leaks.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on March 06, 2021, 01:07:17 PM
Found out the hard way that you can't put the tensioner in with the head on whilst the engine is in the frame. I hadn't torqued it down though so all good.

Am I good to go ahead and torque it down before trying to fit the cam?

[attach=1]

I have a 650 cam for this which I had machined at Newman's cams.
Obviously I'm using the original gear.

[attach=2]
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Bryanj on March 06, 2021, 01:19:41 PM
Fine to torque first.
You doknow the tacho will read wrong with 650 cam?
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on March 06, 2021, 01:22:43 PM
Good good, thanks Bryan. YeahI'm not using the tach, I've got digital gauges. Plus I've deleted the Speedo drive and fitted twin discs.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on March 06, 2021, 01:51:47 PM
This correct?

[attach=1]

[attach=2]
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on March 06, 2021, 02:22:39 PM
I was convinced the head nut sealing rubbers were in the gasket set but I can't find them so I am not sure now.

Anyone know a good source? Is DS the best place?

Also, I'm missing the 18mm washer that goes between the kickstart circlip and the case. 90451357000. DS doesn't stock these anymore.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Nurse Julie on March 06, 2021, 03:22:44 PM
This correct?

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)
Yes as long as the lines on the end of the cam are in line with the top of the casing, that's fine.
The pucks, if that's what you mean by  head nut sealing washers, aren't usually in the gasket sets these days, I will have a look for the 18mm washer later.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on March 06, 2021, 04:25:22 PM
Ah that explains it then. That would be great, thanks Julie!
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on March 08, 2021, 10:21:03 AM
I noticed last night that I've made a mistake. When I put the tensioner in I've missed the little groove it is supposed to sit in at the bottom. (facepalm)
From what I've read I'm going to have to remove the head and lift the barrels slightly to get it in place. Is that right?

If so, is that going to affect how the gaskets perform now I've already torqued the head down?
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Nurse Julie on March 08, 2021, 10:23:23 AM
The gaskets will be fine as the engine hasn't run.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: mickwinf on March 08, 2021, 12:40:04 PM
it can be a bit fiddly to get that bottom part of the tensioner into its groove, i feel it through the sump opening with one hand and push down with the other hand, then confirm using a torch to look from underneath.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on March 08, 2021, 01:09:07 PM
Thanks both, yeah kicking myself but at least I noticed it now and I'm glad the gaskets will be ok. I have come across several posts where people have started the bike up with it like that.

Warning bells were ringing when I let the nut off to self adjust and it didn't move.

Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on March 11, 2021, 06:26:12 PM
Getting there

[attach=1]

[attach=2]

The carbs are off for vapour blasting at the moment. Finished off the wiring, put the valve cover on, fitted new clutch disks, made up a clutch cable.. it'll be running soon fingers crossed!

Oh and the mod I did with the starter works fine
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Nurse Julie on March 11, 2021, 07:17:47 PM
Looks stunning Adam.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Laverda Dave on March 11, 2021, 07:23:19 PM
Looking good. Nice lines although my back and wrists are already screaming in pain looking at the riding position :).
Keep the pictures coming👍.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on March 11, 2021, 07:34:43 PM
Thank you. Haha it's not actually as bad as you think. The bike is so short you're not bent over as much as it looks like you might be
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Rozabikes Tim on March 11, 2021, 07:52:30 PM
Good looking bike that. Like it. Even the minimal seat looks well padded and probably comfy.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: philward on March 11, 2021, 09:45:16 PM
Great build - not my style but I can appreciate the work and skill gone into the build. Really nice bike
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Phteix on March 11, 2021, 11:20:27 PM
It is looking awesome. I really like the colours you have chosen and the seat suits very well, did you make that yourself?
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on March 12, 2021, 08:24:29 AM
I'm impressed with the polished alloy and the alloy frame attachments - love the shade of blue with the brown seating it all oozes understated style imho.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on March 12, 2021, 08:25:38 AM
It is looking awesome. I really like the colours you have chosen and the seat suits very well, did you make that yourself?

Thanks, yeah I made it myself, you can see how I did it on page 4. LV customs london then did the bodywork on it and organised the upholstery. It's really good quality leather, I got a whole hide from a friend who owns a leather company Jekyl and Hide.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on March 13, 2021, 01:10:19 PM
Please can someone tell me the part number for what I'm assuming is the chain guide that's supposed to go here? I'm probably being blind but I can't find it on the parts diagrams.

[attach=1]
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: hairygit on March 13, 2021, 01:12:36 PM
That is the mounting bracket for the front of the stock chainguard

Sent from my POT-LX1 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on March 13, 2021, 01:27:51 PM
Please can someone tell me the part number for what I'm assuming is the chain guide that's supposed to go here? I'm probably being blind but I can't find it on the parts diagrams.

(Attachment Link)

Are those the standard shaft seals those yellow ends in the picture?
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on March 13, 2021, 01:48:27 PM
Ah ok, so is there no rubber chain guide then?

They look yellow in the photo but they are actually standard dust seals painted gold.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Sesman on March 13, 2021, 02:23:10 PM
Correct, no rubber chain guard.

When’s the fire up?
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on March 13, 2021, 03:01:56 PM
Going to have to wait for that unfortunately. The vapour blasters are backed up so it will be a few weeks. I've got the gear controls fitted up and the front brakes bled (twin disks are a bastard)

[attach=2]

I also modded the original tach mount to make it into a plug.

[attach=1]
Its really just the carbs I'm waiting for now.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: taysidedragon on March 13, 2021, 03:10:19 PM
That looks really mean. 👍
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Bryanj on March 13, 2021, 03:12:21 PM
At the price tach drives fetch i hope that one was broken!!
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on March 13, 2021, 03:13:17 PM
I'm not sure I want to ask, but how much to tach drives get?
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Bryanj on March 13, 2021, 04:43:35 PM
Lets just say new ones are over£100 just for the casting, US ebay seem to dell used for $75-$90
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on April 05, 2021, 08:56:04 AM
Just a quick update as I've got no decent pics to share, I'll take some this week. 

I've got the carbs back from vapour blasting and rebuilt.
The bikes filled up with oil and I had it coming out the front where the filter goes before I put the filter on and now the oil light goes out when I crank it over.
How do I know if it's making it to the head? I cant really see much past the tappits and I've tried leaving the end caps off but not got any oil coming out there yet.

The main issue I have currently, a fairly large one is that I have no spark. I've got a Dyna S electronic ignition with aftermarket 5 ohm coils. I timed the Dyna as per the instructions. You time it at the advance mark and twist the counterweight to fully advanced and the light should come on then.

The coils did get quite hot when I was doing the timing so I thought I might have damaged them but they are still measuring at 5ohms so not sure. I need to do a bit more investigation, i've yet to test the pickups on the Dyna which should read infinite ohms on all ranges.

Any ideas on what else I can check?
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: K2-K6 on April 05, 2021, 09:26:19 AM
With the coils getting hot it shows they have power (+ positive supply) with the switching done by the earth line you can get them to spark manually.

With ignition on,  disconnect the "trigger" wires from coil to ignition system, then hold one of those wires (from coil) against an earth. Now when you remove that earth connection it should throw a spark out.

If it does,  then you'll probably need to check the ignition system's earth route to make sure it's competent.  They effectively use transistors to do as you've just done manually by switching the earth line on and off to make the coil discharge a spark. If the transistor can't get a decent earth route it may not operate.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: K2-K6 on April 05, 2021, 09:30:32 AM
Oil feed to top end, it takes longer to get there and you've just got to check it probably when it's started.

Light out means the main crank feed is ok and up to pressure, which is good. It takes longer and more pump revolutions to get through to the head in much of an observable quantity.  Wait till it starts and keep checking as you have to see then.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on April 05, 2021, 09:38:43 AM
Ok thanks for the advice, I'll give that a go.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on April 05, 2021, 03:02:58 PM
Right so I've just done as suggested and it does spark from the wire that would normally go to the ignition.

What's weird is that the light I'm using for timing is now always on.
Using a multimeter between the wire that would normally go to the ignition and ground, there is 12v. Is that right?
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Bryanj on April 05, 2021, 03:20:20 PM
If you mean the yellow or blue wire to the points yes
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on April 05, 2021, 03:25:10 PM
I just realised my stupidity asking, of course it wouldnt spark against ground otherwise.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Bryanj on April 05, 2021, 03:26:07 PM
If this is a 500/550 you can check oil feed to the top end by removing the polished end caps on the cam cover and loosening the bolts holding the steel brackets on, oil should flood out of there which is why the washer between bracket and cam cover should be soft alloy
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: K2-K6 on April 05, 2021, 03:26:47 PM
It will spark from that wire as it's taking a load from the coil, but you need to look at the spark plug while doing it as it should throw out a spark when you detach the earth with that wire.

Yes to measuring that wire with a voltmeter. The power is going into the coil from ignition source and you are measuring it across to ground just like putting the meter across the battery terminals. 

Anyway,  it does look like coils and their supply are working as it wouldn't do as you've described. 

What "should" happen when connected to ignition triggering is that the triggering should be switching that earth route on and off to get the coils to spark.  As it's not,  then that suggests the triggering is not working for some reason.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on April 05, 2021, 04:13:08 PM
Thanks everyone for the input! I've put the points back on and it's got spark now on all 4, going to see if I can send the Dyna back for a replacement.

Brianj I'm glad you mentioned about the aluminium washers under the cam cap brackets, I didn't have anything there. I've added a copper washer so hopefully that will work. The bolt on the kickstand side was wet with oil so I know oils made it up there which is great.

I'm basically ready to try and start it I think!?

[attach=1]

[attach=2]
 
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on April 05, 2021, 05:57:59 PM
Well it ran, and it ran quite well but I've had a fairly large disaster.

I started it a couple of times from the electric start then I went to try the kick and something broke or came loose in the kick mechanism. Now although the kick has a spring return, it's not engaging with the gears.

I am gutted as I guess the only thing I can do here is strip the engine again.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: K2-K6 on April 05, 2021, 06:31:47 PM
Ooooh  :o that doesn't sound too good.

It's not a complete disaster if you need to get in there though. Ordinarily,  motor out and upside down,  you can leave all the top end untouched and just split the cases to access it.

See what the more 500 centric forum advice would offer to help.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Nurse Julie on April 05, 2021, 06:40:21 PM
You can access the kick start mechanism through the sump. Drain oil, remove sump, lean bike right over as far as you can and support it on something. You can get to the bendix and the little circlip (which I'm thinking is what may have popped off). Just make sure everything is in position correctly and locked with the circlip before you button it back up.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on April 05, 2021, 06:52:11 PM
Oh really? Well that's a little bit of light at the end of the tunnel then. I did read trigger saying he always replaces the circlips but it was after I had put the cases together.

It wasn't charging either but one thing at a time.

Sorry I didn't get a video of it running.. I was about to and then this happened.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Nurse Julie on April 05, 2021, 06:59:59 PM
Oh really? Well that's a little bit of light at the end of the tunnel then. I did read trigger saying he always replaces the circlips but it was after I had put the cases together.

It wasn't charging either but one thing at a time.

Sorry I didn't get a video of it running.. I was about to and then this happened.
Yes, the circlip always or should be single use only. But don't worry, it's doable but fiddly, just make sure all the bits are locked in on the shaft, fit a new circlip and you will be good to go.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: K2-K6 on April 05, 2021, 07:22:29 PM
See, the soothing tones of a real nurse telling you it's all going to be ok.

If only Heineken did techie websites  ;D does it get any better  :P

Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on April 05, 2021, 07:29:52 PM
Haha. It's true, I feel much much better now.
Thank you Julie!
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on April 06, 2021, 07:44:13 PM
I've just drained the oil and as suspected all the bits of the kick shaft are in the sump.

More worryingly, I found this in the sump.

[attach=1]

Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Nurse Julie on April 06, 2021, 08:49:29 PM
Looks like black mastic / gasket seal type stuff. Are those glittery bits I can see as well?
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on April 06, 2021, 08:52:41 PM
Might be, but There's bits of metal in there.

Mm no not gasket seal, I used very little hondabond anyway. Those bits on my finger are metal and magnetic.   :(
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on April 07, 2021, 11:06:33 AM
What do you think it is? I guess its hard to know. I didn't try to run it with the kick start in bits so it's not that.

Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: K2-K6 on April 07, 2021, 11:13:48 AM
Looks like it's broken off something (staing the obvious from me  ::) )but appears to be bent and of softer material,  that's as opposed to geabox teeth that usually chip off and retain their form.

Might be worth rinsing it and giving us a clearer picture on white paer to get a better look and see if someone can give more positive I'd.

It "looks" more like kickstart component initially and could be a bit sheared from there as it's quite a high torque right down in the centre of leverage, that's most likely to be related to what you felt when using the lever.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: K2-K6 on April 07, 2021, 11:16:13 AM
Oops, lost a pee in that "paer" up there  :)

Obvious or not,  but PAPER.

Got it that time  ;D
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on April 07, 2021, 11:18:57 AM
Ha yeah got it.

Ok yes it's not the best picture. There were more smaller bits in the sump, like crumb size if that makes sense. Not loads, but as I only ran the bike for 1 min max, enough.

I'll wash as much as I can and put it on some paper and get a better picture. My fear is bearing but not sure what could cause that so quickly.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on April 07, 2021, 06:37:47 PM
The black stuff is definitely graphogen, not worried about that. I can't see any metal on the gears through the sump, they look clean.

There is a mark on the kickstart shaft and a small mark on the case on the inside which may have been caused by it when it came off.

[attach=1]

[attach=2]

Aside from the small bits in the earlier photo there's lots of small pieces of metal as well, not powdery sparkle but sand grain sized. Some slightly bigger and I can see they are dark on one side and shiny on the other. I did notice the kick start gear that is still in there had some shiny pieces on the teeth. I neglected to mention before I started it and was trying to get oil to the head I ran the starter for a bit whilst the kick starter was half engaged caught under the rearset, so the gear was half engaged. It wasn't noisy just tick tick tick.. That could have been what caused all the small bits of metal I guess?
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on April 08, 2021, 06:45:01 PM
Thanks Ken.

Here's what the gear looks like, very worn. Not sure what's gone on here. I assume it's not supposed to look like that. Is there supposed to be a thrush washer between that gear and the case?

[attach=1]

[attach=2]

[attach=3]

These are all the parts I had.

[attach=4]
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Erny on April 08, 2021, 06:47:26 PM
Maype PO riding while kickstart lever was in position with engaged gear?
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on April 08, 2021, 06:52:27 PM
Wellll, that might have been me as per my earlier post. Turning it over to get oil pressure the Kickstarter was slightly engaged caught under the rearset. That certainly would have caused the tooth wear.

That in turn could have caused bits of metal in the kickstart gears and then binded them causing the circlip to pop off.

I'm happy if that's the reason because it's a simple fix. Wondering if I should button it up as is, run it for a minute again, drain the oil again and check the sump to see if there's more metal.




Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on April 12, 2021, 03:36:17 PM
I've changed the oil and ran it again. No more metal.. must have been the kickstart (Phew). The charging is also working!

I'm still waiting on some things before I can ride it. I've ordered a dual 'airbox' which is almost like pods but nicer from  http://www.steeldragonperformance.com/air_boxes_7.html but it hasn't arrived yet. No point in trying to tune it before they arrive, and I know they don't run as well without the stock airboxes so I won't be asking for advice on Jetting or tuning on here!
I have gone up to 40 on pilot  and 110 on mains though which should put me in the ballpark before I embark on plug chops etc

I need to fabricate a plate bracket which will have to be side mounted.

I need to get the exhaust tip welded onto the reducer and the bracket mount to the pipe. Can't be riding it with it all hanging from the studs.

Aaaand I've just sent details through to footmanjames for an agreed value insurance quote.

Here's a picture just after I recently ran it, It does have the righthand foot controls on now.  I was too excited to film anything but I will post a video up soon. And yes I know the points cover is upside down.

[attach=1]

[attach=2]

Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Nurse Julie on April 12, 2021, 03:40:55 PM
Well done 👍👍👍
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Erny on April 12, 2021, 03:45:09 PM
I've changed the oil and ran it again. No more metal.. must have been the kickstart (Phew).

I'm still waiting on some things before I can ride it. I've ordered a dual 'airbox' which is almost like pods but nicer from  http://www.steeldragonperformance.com/air_boxes_7.html but it hasn't arrived yet. No point in trying to tune it before they arrive, and I know they don't run as well without the stock airboxes so I won't be asking for advice on Jetting or tuning on here!
I have gone up to 40 on pilot  and 110 on mains though which should put me in the ballpark before I embark on plug chops etc

I need to fabricate a plate bracket which will have to be side mounted.

I need to get the exhaust tip welded onto the reducer and the bracket mount to the pipe. Can't be riding it with it all hanging from the studs.

Aaaand I've just sent details through to footmanjames for an agreed value insurance quote.

Here's a picture just after I recently ran it, It does have the righthand foot controls on now.  I was too excited to film anything but I will post a video up soon. And yes I know the points cover is upside down.

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

Normally I'm not big fan of modded bikes but this one I like - very clean just bare minumim needed. Very nice!

And wondering - you cancelled rear brake?
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: K2-K6 on April 12, 2021, 04:11:34 PM
Bike looks really good, nice work.

I know we favour original intake generally on here, and mainly because it works so well.  But also feel that general internet advice for jetting with pods etc doesn't fully appreciate the nuances of what changes in reality and how to compensate for that error.

Worthwhile looking at this thread http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,22031.msg197883.html#msg197883 as it works through the same thing on a 750.

The ignition bias works on the basis of increased resistance but with smallest plug gap to push the spark into elongation,  which has beneficial effect on running leaner mixtures. In other words, working with the effect that pods give instead of simply throwing more fuel at it.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on April 12, 2021, 04:47:50 PM
Thanks for the love.

Interesting points K2-K6.

I'm under no illusions its just going to ride great off the bat. I'll see how it goes and look at experimenting with increased resistance down the line.
The F1 also has the 2 smaller holes at the bottom of the emulsion tube, which I assume was due to the 4-1, not sure if that would help or make things worse.

Anyway as I said, I don't want to get into a deep tuning debate on here. I've seen what happens to people (I jest)  ;D
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: philward on April 12, 2021, 08:48:56 PM
I've changed the oil and ran it again. No more metal.. must have been the kickstart (Phew). The charging is also working!

I'm still waiting on some things before I can ride it. I've ordered a dual 'airbox' which is almost like pods but nicer from  http://www.steeldragonperformance.com/air_boxes_7.html but it hasn't arrived yet. No point in trying to tune it before they arrive, and I know they don't run as well without the stock airboxes so I won't be asking for advice on Jetting or tuning on here!
I have gone up to 40 on pilot  and 110 on mains though which should put me in the ballpark before I embark on plug chops etc

I need to fabricate a plate bracket which will have to be side mounted.

I need to get the exhaust tip welded onto the reducer and the bracket mount to the pipe. Can't be riding it with it all hanging from the studs.

Aaaand I've just sent details through to footmanjames for an agreed value insurance quote.

Here's a picture just after I recently ran it, It does have the righthand foot controls on now.  I was too excited to film anything but I will post a video up soon. And yes I know the points cover is upside down.

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

Thats looking really nice! Great build
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on April 12, 2021, 09:39:54 PM
Thanks! The lines aren't touching the stanchions, just looks like it in those pics. I'll take some better pics soon.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on April 12, 2021, 10:17:12 PM
Thanks! The lines aren't touching the stanchions, just looks like it in those pics. I'll take some better pics soon.

It certainly looks a neat "Cafe Racer Style" - looking at the void where there was probably a battery & air box - in needs some nice chrome alloy air intakes fitting - probably not good for engine wear but I always liked those bell mouthed intakes with a coarse guaze over them to keep out the big rocks!
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Bryanj on April 13, 2021, 12:17:01 AM
They wernt to keep out rocks but small children@
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on April 13, 2021, 10:06:00 AM
As nice as the velocity stacks look, I've spent too much time and money on this engine to fill it with dirt and dust.

I've ordered these from Steeldragonperformance the US, they have metal bell mouths built in which improves airflow over standard pods (apparently).

[attach=1]



Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on April 13, 2021, 02:09:57 PM
As nice as the velocity stacks look, I've spent too much time and money on this engine to fill it with dirt and dust.

I've ordered these from Steeldragonperformance the US, they have metal bell mouths built in which improves airflow over standard pods (apparently).

(Attachment Link)

Nice looking finish - the sensible choice.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: MCTID on April 13, 2021, 02:30:34 PM
Congratulations from me too....I like Standard bikes, but all credit to your efforts......I think you have accomplished something really 'special' with your 'special' !

You'll need to add 5 minutes to all your rides as plenty of people will be asking you lots of questions about your bike....nice questions of course....and get ready for the positive handshakes. Well done fella.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on April 13, 2021, 03:12:24 PM
They designed for the Honda fours? I'm wondering how they seal to the carb body, is that the back and the bell mouths bolt onto the flanges there and the front has rubber gaiters like the OE airbox?

Those particular ones might not be, that photo is from the website. The ones I've ordered are made for the cb550 069A carbs.  When they arrive I will let you know!
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on April 13, 2021, 04:32:27 PM
Just as a matter of interest what did you do with the kickstart, I know you refitted it etc but did you change the gears at the same time or reinstall the old ones, I notice the kickstart lever is missing so I'm thinking you went with the old ones.

I didn't. I left it out of the case and just left the shaft and circlip/spring in place under the clutch cover.

The kickstart doesn't clear the rearset anyway so I was going to have to modify the arm somehow. I've decided to leave it out and just use the electric start for now. I really did want to keep the kickstart though... if I miss it I will look at it then and I will have to get new gears.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on April 22, 2021, 08:00:59 PM
Is this ok for fuel heights?

[attach=1]

[attach=2]
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: robvangulik on April 22, 2021, 08:28:14 PM
First pic maybe a tad high, second looks right on the money :)
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Laverda Dave on April 22, 2021, 08:34:51 PM
Just catching up on some threads. I missed the finished bike first time round so just seen it.
Congratulations on a great build and to keep going when faced with last minute set backs. The choice of paint colour really sets the bike off especially with the tan seat. You should have a lot of fun on that👍.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on April 22, 2021, 08:48:37 PM
Thanks, I'll adjust those heights a bit.

Cheers Dave, yeah very happy with it.

Made a numberplate bracket last weekend. Bit Harley like but there's not enough room over the wheel Bit I think it looks ok

[attach=3]

[attach=1]

[attach=2]
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: SteveD CB500K0 on April 23, 2021, 07:05:22 AM
Doubles as a chain lube catcher

Are you going to fit a chain guard?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on April 23, 2021, 08:10:22 AM
Yes probably, I might try and make one though it's down on the list of priorities at the moment.

It had a bad hanging idle, so I'm getting the float heights perfect, going back to original 38 pilots for now until I can source genuine 40's and putting some genuine larger mains in.

Still waiting for the custom air filters to come from the US.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: K2-K6 on April 23, 2021, 08:29:03 AM
Hanging idle is often a conflict of how the slide's heights are set against the master idle speed control adjustment screw.

Those air filters in previous post look to have many of the attributes of an airbox (they seem a particularly decent approach) and so possible that it'll be easier to work with when they are fitted. Definitely seems worthwhile getting those on before setting absolute jetting.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on April 23, 2021, 12:45:17 PM
Out of interest, the  lowest 2 holes in the emulsion tubes in my carbs are smaller than the rest. I would assume this is because it's an F1 model.

If I'm right in thinking, that make the bike run richer at idle than if the holes were all the same..?

That would make sense as the plugs were well sooted up and I was running it without any sort of air filter and 40 pilots from NRP. But again as you rightly say, there's little point to all this until I get the air filters.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: K2-K6 on April 23, 2021, 01:32:43 PM
"If I'm right in thinking, that make the bike run richer at idle than if the holes were all the same..?"

They shouldn't affect the overall mixture volume as that's controlled for maximum flow by the jet size.

What the emulsion "strategy" of any system does is to try and improve atomisation of fuel droplets as refining the size will effectively give improvements in mixture quality, making it burn more evenly and so smoother throttle response.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on May 04, 2021, 02:03:38 PM
I had the carbs synced professionally last week. I still had a hanging idle but I resolved that by cleaning the advanced mechanism and using some thinner grease.

I took the bike for its first lengthy ride on the weekend between the surrey cafes. Overall it rode pretty good, apart from a slight stumble off idle when under load it pulled well through the revs.
I will be spending a lot more time on the carbs, but as I've said previously, I will probably try and work through that on my own rather than ask on here.

One issue that has come to light, is the rear brake plate eating into the hub causing. There were quite a lot of aluminium shavings which I found sat in the recess of the rims. The plate already had a bit missing which I knew about when I put it on, but I didn't think it would be a problem.

[attach=1]

I've ordered another hub from Fleabay so hopefully that will be ok.

There are also a couple of oil leaks, there is a small amount of oil on the fin above the base gasket on the left side. Not sure where the source is yet.

Here's a video of it running, it's before I sorted the idle hang or had the carbs professionally synced, so you can hear the revs stay up after I blip the throttle.

https://youtu.be/2MveXqWVcXQ







 

Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: K2-K6 on May 04, 2021, 02:30:36 PM
Rear brake plate, are you certain you've all the spindle spacers in all the right places?

Should be able to torque the axle fully without anything touching anything else. 
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on May 04, 2021, 03:23:07 PM
Pretty sure yeah, the wheel turns freely, doesn't feel like it's binding or catching at all.
I need to look at it more closely to see if I can work out why it's happening.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on May 06, 2021, 05:55:44 PM
Ok I know what's caused it.

I'm missing part 12.

[attach=1]

I'm surprised I didn't hurt myself riding it! The left wheel spacer was just being held in place with the sprocket plate seal which had destroyed itself.

[attach=2]

Seems unobtanium. Might have to see if I can get one machined.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: K2-K6 on May 06, 2021, 06:40:29 PM
Yep, lucky to get away with that as locking rear wheel is not funny  :o

Probably the design of the chain adjustment plates that largely held it in place.

Decent engineering shop should be easily able to replicate if you can't find one.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Nurse Julie on May 06, 2021, 06:42:33 PM
Ok I know what's caused it.

I'm missing part 12.

(Attachment Link)

I'm surprised I didn't hurt myself riding it! The left wheel spacer was just being held in place with the sprocket plate seal which had destroyed itself.

(Attachment Link)

Seems unobtanium. Might have to see if I can get one machined.
I'll have a look in the morning, we may have one.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on May 06, 2021, 06:52:19 PM
Thanks Julie. Let me know, that would be amazing if you do.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Nurse Julie on May 06, 2021, 07:07:43 PM
Thanks Julie. Let me know, that would be amazing if you do.
There you go. I will PM you later as I'm just cooking dinner 😁
[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: SteveD CB500K0 on May 06, 2021, 07:10:37 PM
And does Elvis the Dachshund have anything to say about this?


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Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on May 06, 2021, 07:12:35 PM
Amazing! Love this forum. Thanks Elvis (and Julie)
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Bryanj on May 06, 2021, 08:36:27 PM
I have the sizes in my parts book and that seal is nothing special, you should get one anywhere.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on May 14, 2021, 10:21:53 AM
Thanks Julie, part received and installed. Haven't ridden it yet (Bloody rain) but it all seems good.

Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Nurse Julie on May 14, 2021, 11:28:09 AM
Thanks Julie, part received and installed. Haven't ridden it yet (Bloody rain) but it all seems good.
Great, it'll probably handle better now 😁😁😁. The weather looks pretty shite for the weekend as well 😭😭😭
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on May 21, 2021, 10:31:06 AM
The air filters from Steeldragon performance finally arrived and I think they look great.

The intakes are actually velocity stacks with the 'airbox' built around them. they fix to the carbs with a rubber seal recessed inside and are held firmly in place with gudgeon screws.

[attach=1]

[attach=2]

[attach=3]

Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: taysidedragon on May 21, 2021, 10:42:15 AM
Those airfilters are beautiful work. 👍

In my weird Welsh world those screws are grub screws. 🤪
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on May 21, 2021, 10:46:16 AM
You are totally right. I had Gudgeon pin stuck in my head for some reason. Sent pre-coffee.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: taysidedragon on May 21, 2021, 11:05:43 AM
You are totally right. I had Gudgeon pin stuck in my head for some reason. Sent pre-coffee.

Coffee's essential.  I can't operate without caffeine.  ☕
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on May 21, 2021, 07:06:29 PM
It holds in place and has a feeling of sealing when you push them on but yes the grub screws are needed to keep them from coming off again. Let's see.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on May 30, 2021, 09:30:58 AM
So the bike has a bit of a bad oil leak.

It appears to be coming from the base gasket, it leaks all around it when it's been running. You can just see it in this photo where it's leaked over the top case. It also leaked from both sides and dropped around the alternator cover and points cover.

[attach=1]

When it's cold and sitting it still leaks but not from the base gasket, it comes from the left side off the bottom of the oil pan.

Tackling the base gasket first, should I re-torque the head?
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Bryanj on May 30, 2021, 01:19:42 PM
You can try but i doubt it will cure it
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on May 30, 2021, 03:13:02 PM
Oh that's not good. What usually causes that then and what's the fix?
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Bryanj on May 30, 2021, 07:55:39 PM
Hadnt magnified it enough to see that, yes there is an O ring in a groove but i think that washer is steel, its the one on the top bolt that is soft. Either way it should not have a spring washer and the bolt slotlooks chewed
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on June 01, 2021, 07:05:10 PM
Well I found the cause of the major oil leak, the drain on the oil pump wasn't snugged up completely. I was still getting oil pressure so I hope it hasn't starved the engine at all.

There doesn't appear to be any oil leaking from the top tensioner nut but I've replaced the bottom spring washer with a copper one and it seems to be better. It's possible I've missed the rubber O ring on the inside, I really can't remember. I'll have to live with it until I can bring myself to dive back into the top end.

Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on June 01, 2021, 07:09:41 PM
Also, I've just hit 100 miles on it. What's the consensus on when to do the first oil change?

Bikes been getting a lot of attention which is nice. The air filters seem fine too, I don't have a benchmark as I never rode it with the airbox but it pulls smoothly through the revs with power throughout and idles well.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on July 26, 2021, 12:44:39 PM
It's been a while since I've posted, I hope everyone is enjoying some nice rides between the downpours.

I've been riding the bike quite a lot and it has decent revs throughout the range and pulls well. It stumbles a bit when warm from idle but as I'm not running the original airbox I'm not going to open a can of worms there.
The bike is running very rich though. All the plugs are quite sooty and I can turn the choke off just after starting it without it being unhappy. I believe I've set the float levels correctly.

I'm running the original 38 pilot jets I got with the bike but looking through the jets at a light, the holes seem inconsistent. I think it may be possible they've been drilled previously or carelessly cleaned with some wire.

The needle is dropped down one clip from standard.

To rule it out I need some original 38's known to be good, I don't want to go aftermarket as they may not be good either. I don't suppose anyone has any they would be willing to sell me??



Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: K2-K6 on July 26, 2021, 03:08:44 PM
Think I'd be inclined to buy new and test it with them to gauge effect as it's not a std setup anyway.

You can compare your current jet with new by plugging it into a length of clear plastic pipe and filling with petrol to time them as it drains to give reference to compare new one. It would at least give you an informed view before running them to give real combustion experience.

The idle jets should, I  believe, affect the whole rpm range too. It's just that we can adjust them up until they reach full flow but they don't stop there in continuously working as additional to main jet.

If yours have been "bored out" then it's probably realistic to get a accurate set point with new to give clear direction from here.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on July 26, 2021, 03:30:39 PM
Solid advice, hadn't thought of using a tube to compare. I'll have to order some from NRP as screw in pilots for the 069A's are unobtanium new. Allens performance only sell push in.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: K2-K6 on July 27, 2021, 02:14:32 PM
It's very interesting to see what you get with the filters you are using.

I thought they looked impressive when you got them, and to me seem to have a decent % of key attributes that replicate the std system.

Specifically they don't delete the bellmouth,  this effectively controls the air stream condition heading into the carb venturi and highly influence the flow accuracy.
In addition,  having them paired rather than individual also has important influence on mixture. Intake systems have quite alot of fuel misting back out of the intakes due to inverse pulsing among intake dynamics, and with pods critically losing this aspect. The fuel mist is part of the mixture total,  but travels from one cylinder to another depending on pulsing,  which doesn't appear to have been discarded with this setup.

It must be of interest to others on here that don't run an airbox, looking pretty competent to me. Certainly interesting to see what jets you end up with as anything close to standard would suggest air management performance similar to original specification.

If you find yourself with any concern about running lean , then raise the plug range by #1 in NGK terms to give yourself more safety margin.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Bryanj on July 27, 2021, 05:18:22 PM
Pattern jets are available in various sizes from sirius consolodated in canada
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on August 13, 2021, 08:57:37 AM
Well it appears to be running a bit better with the new jets, even though they are aftermarket. It's still rich though. I might try changing the main jet o rings. Is there a source to buy them on their own?

Took some nicer pics of the bike ;)

[attach=1]

[attach=2]

[attach=3]

[attach=4]

[attach=5]
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on August 13, 2021, 08:59:13 AM
Here's the before from the fist page of this thread for comparison. Hard to believe it's the same bike.

[attach=1]
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Bryanj on August 13, 2021, 03:58:18 PM
Nurse Julie sells O ring kits
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Laverda Dave on August 13, 2021, 09:46:39 PM
Wow, that's class. Well done on such a great build :)
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on August 14, 2021, 12:20:12 AM
That's a neat looking restoration - I've always liked the Cafe Racer look - clearly not done on the cheap judging by all the alloy & chromed bling.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Johnny4428 on August 14, 2021, 09:28:22 AM
Not a fan of cafe race mods either but credit where due that is a lovely looking machine! Well done.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on August 14, 2021, 12:19:26 PM
Not a fan of cafe race mods either but credit where due that is a lovely looking machine! Well done.

I thought the old Honda Benly 125 was pretty much a production version of a Cafe Racer back in the day with it's knee grip tank, chromed rear coiled dampers etc hard to belive they came out in 1959. I remember seeing them in the car park of the local Techninal College - next to a BSA Bantam it was no suprise that Honda made so many sales in the 1960's.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51378052819_e7c1d6abde_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mh6X7T)Honda CB92 (https://flic.kr/p/2mh6X7T) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Johnny4428 on August 14, 2021, 12:22:23 PM
Quite like that Ted. But must say not my first choice for colour of seat!
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on August 14, 2021, 05:12:20 PM
Quite like that Ted. But must say not my first choice for colour of seat!
Agreed the ones I saw often had clip ons added plus a seat with a rear cafe style  stop end black seat.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: eight0 on August 14, 2021, 05:16:05 PM
Thanks for the compliments everyone. Couldn't have done it without the help of this forum.
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Moorey on August 15, 2021, 07:46:06 PM
 Love it. You should be well happy with the result and yourself. As we say in Yorkshire "It'l do".  ;)
Title: Re: 1976 CB550F1 (what have I let myself in for) Project
Post by: Nurse Julie on August 15, 2021, 08:41:45 PM
That is lovely 😍😍😍😍😍😍
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