Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB500/550 => Topic started by: murdock on March 15, 2021, 08:57:07 AM
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Hi, I'm Murdock, I live in Spain and among other motorcycles I have a cb 550 SS from 1977 that I bought about 6 years ago, in the papers of the motorcycle it appears as a Blaynac brand, since in those years they did not allow importing Japanese motorcycles of more than 350 cc, they were brought by preparers such as Blaynac, Japauto, Dresda changing some parts and registering their brand, that way they could enter, here there are very few fours and it is very difficult to find spare parts for any Japanese classic motorcycle from before the 90 'when I bought it already had 7 previous owners, it was not so bad, it had different tires on each wheel, 3 carburettors worked and 2 leaked, the headlight and its supports were bent, the tank leaked through many holes, it was varnished with wood varnish, etc. I took it apart, or put it in the elevator and took it up to my house, I took it out to the terrace and there I completely disassembled it, painted the frame, cleaned many parts, put semis, another seat, other lights, repaired and reduced e the wiring, and repair the upper part of the engine, 6 years later I still try to carbure it well, that keeps me distracted, meanwhile I have rebuilt a 1979 guzzi t3 850 to my liking, but now I find myself in the situation that I do not have nothing to do unless I buy another motorcycle, so I decided to rejuvenate the super sport, it has been with velocity stacs these years and has already lost compression, it has 56,000 km I think it is time to open it, but I have a problem , pieces !!! here Honda does not sell spare parts for (old) motorcycles as they call, and the others only sell filters and nonsense, when I bought the parts I asked for them in cmsnl, but now with #@%$ they cost double, someone knows where I can buy at better prices and outside the uk? On ebay they sell parts but a lot of money goes to the different shipments, I am determined to disassemble the engine since the chain is jerking and surely the rubber studs are like stones, I hope you will help me with the choice of bearings, I bought that motorcycle because I've fallen in love since I was a child, I'm already 50 and I've had a lot of motorcycles, but that's like the first girlfriend
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David Silver spares will sell worldwide but since UK left the EU (didnt use the B word as its banned here!) Customs duties are now charged.
I am sure people on here would act as middle men to get spares to you but losses in the post to your country are common so it would all have to be at your risk and payment first
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of the 27 countries of the European Union none sells original parts for
our engines?
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I have friends in the UK who would gladly send me the spare parts, but would I avoid customs costs by post?
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Welcome to the forum Murdock. I like your style of restoration and taking the bike up to the house in the elevator, it reminds me of my younger days of taking a 400/4 engine apart on the family dinner table (where it stayed for weeks on end!).
Have you tried CMSNL based in Holland for parts? Unlike DSS they have the exploded parts diagram on their website together with prices making ordering easy. Just make sure you order as many parts as possible in one go as their postage costs are very high.
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Welcome to the forum Murdock. I like your style of restoration and taking the bike up to the house in the elevator, it reminds me of my younger days of taking a 400/4 engine apart on the family dinner table (where it stayed for weeks on end!).
Have you tried CMSNL based in Holland for parts? Unlike DSS they have the exploded parts diagram on their website together with prices making ordering easy. Just make sure you order as many parts as possible in one go as their postage costs are very high.
Sorry, I read your post again and see you have already tried CMSNL. There are big motorcycle breakers in Germany with a lot of old Honda sohc spares and who advertise on eBay, maybe worth a try.
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Welcome Murdock - would be interesting to see pictures of your bike. As CMSL is Dutch, why has prices changed as Holland to Spain charges should not change.
Cruzinimagine on ebay sell some quality engine spares at good prices (Japan based)
Sorry, posted while Dave was posting so duplicated info!
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Yes, sooo many years ago at my parents' house 11th floor I raised the engine of a husqvarna te 510 1989 and disassembled it in my room borrowing the kitchen table, hahaha
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anyone know the japanese tourmax chains? It is the CNN Q088 model, I am gathering information to buy the parts, seals, bearings, pistons etc and these are at a good price but I do not know their durability
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not is the best picture
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Yo te vendo mi 550 y haces una moto nueva ;D ;D ;D ;D
I am selling you my 550 and so you can make a new one.
Where are you locate in Spain?
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Ya me gustaría , pero tengo 4 motos , vivo en Madrid , dónde compras recambios ? Quiero hacer el motor casi entero , ya tiene 56000 km y da tirones la cadena también tiene poca compresión , los precios de cmsnl o David silver son terribles y encima te agregan el IVA , en España no consigo casi nada , tú dónde vives ?
I would like, but I have 4 motorcycles, I live in Madrid, where do you buy spare parts? I want to make almost the entire engine, it already has 56,000 km and the chain is jerking, it also has little compression, the prices of cmsnl or David silver are terrible and on top of that they add VAT, in Spain I get almost nothing, where do you live?
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I also live in Madrid and when I need buy some I try on Ebay,DSP,CMSNL........., in this forum.........here there is a lot of friends that can help you with some spares or knowledge. Restorations are never and cheap an even less on these four cylinders, if you want we can meet one day and see your motorcycle, maybe I can help you.
Yo tambien vivo en Madrid y cuando necesito respuesto yo miro en Ebay, DSP, CMSNL y en este forum, aqui hay un monton de amigos que pueden ayudarte con algun repuesto y conocimientos. Las restauraciones nunca son barate y menos en estas cuatro cilindros, si tu quieres podemos quedar un dia y ver tu moto, a lo mejor puedo ayudarte.
Un saludo.
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hola , ok algun dia quedamos , vivo en las rozas . la moto funciona pero esta floja de motor , paso por 7 dueños antes que yo , la compre hace 6 años , en galicia , al motor solo le cambie los aros , lapee las valvulas y les cambie los retenes , platinos y condensadores mas la cadena de tiempo , arranca a la primera pero entre que no esta muy bien carburada y la falta de potencia ya no supero los 120 , pienso abrirla totalmente y cambiar cadena primaria , tacos , retenes , segmentos y los cojinetes que aun se consigan , arriba pistones y aros , aun tengo que encontrar un rectificador cerca , de a poco voy comprando las piezas , cuando termine la homologacion de la guzzi la destripo , sabes si en el foro existe algun listado de las piezas necesarias para reconstruir la parte baja
Hello, ok one day we meet, I live in Las Rozas. The motorcycle works but the engine is loose, it went through 7 owners before me, I bought it 6 years ago, in Galicia, the engine only changed the rings, lapped the valves and changed the seals, points and condensers plus the chain. time, it starts the first time but between the fact that it is not very well carburated and the lack of power I no longer exceed 120, I plan to open it completely and change the primary chain, studs, seals, segments and bearings that are still available, pistons and rings , I still have to find a rectifier nearby, little by little I am buying the parts, when the homologation of the guzzi is finished, I destroy it, do you know if there is a list of the necessary parts to rebuild the lower part
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Murdock,
here's some places you could try that are cheaper than CMSNL.
http://www.ddmototeam.com/mobile/articles_honda.php?type_moto=17&type=pc (http://www.ddmototeam.com/mobile/articles_honda.php?type_moto=17&type=pc)
This guy has the biggest stock of new and used classic Honda parts in Germany.
Wolfgang Drescher, Ersatzteile für klassische Hondas
Frankfurter Str. 40 63584 Rothenbergen
FAX 06051/16562
He also sells from ebay
https://www.ebay.de/str/drescherheistermoparts (https://www.ebay.de/str/drescherheistermoparts)
https://www.classiccyclecity.de/ (https://www.classiccyclecity.de/)
https://www.classic-bikes.de/ (https://www.classic-bikes.de/)
http://www.four-schmiede.de/ (http://www.four-schmiede.de/)
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You can use this geuine primary chain (same chain/manufacturer) at under half the Honda price
- and as in Europe, no duties
https://www.motorcyclespareparts.eu/en/kawasaki-parts/920571011?currency=GBP&withvat=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxZvMhMah7gIVyrTtCh39NQiJEAQYASABEgIWtPD_BwE
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Thank you very much for the information, it is very useful, there are also guzzi parts, it is very useful to me, I will buy the kawasaki chain
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2015
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mas
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I'll see if I find them, my girl tends to throw away the things that for her are filthy, I suppose this is a common problem that a large part of the population suffers
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Hello, as I had a leak in the cap of the pan, I decided to remove it to repair it and look at the chain.
from below I move it easily with a finger upwards, it also has play to the sides, I found some marks that confirm its flight
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It is also somewhat dirty inside, I have already bought a chain, I must find out what else to ask for since I am going to open it, I should do the right thing
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The 550 has more clearance to the main oil gallery than the 500 so chain has to be really worn to cause bad damage, its the sort of thing uou change if you have to split the cases for another reason
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enlarging the photo you can see the chain pins as if they were touching somewhere the plates are black but they are not
I should buy the primary shaft rubbers, the bearings, I still don't know whether to order the transmission ones as well, I don't think they are necessary
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Is the grey marking on the chain just old oil, can it be wiped off with a tissue?
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Chain pins are that colour because they were that colour originally, same for the plates, they started off that colour.
If your changing the chain, change the damper rubbers as well.
Yes, they are without any doubt, but should I also change the primary gear bearings?
18 . 19 .and 26 ?
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I think the number 19 is the most suffered, but it seems that it is no longer available as an original replacement
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Is the grey marking on the chain just old oil, can it be wiped off with a tissue?
yes ,it's just a shine from the oil
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Since I am going to open the engine, someone could tell me what other parts I should buy, at the time I will look at the crankshaft bearings and connecting rods, the pistons and rings are easy to get, no problem
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Gasket kit
Seal Kit
Primary and cam chains
Primary damper rubbers
It is unusual to find shells worn but they can be damaged by dirty oil
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Thanks, but and should the primary transmission bearings be changed? I have already seen the seals, do you recommend some sealant to join the parts
Thanks guys
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Not unless worn or noisy
Hondabond used VERY sparingly between crankcase halves nothing on any paper gasket
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hello, I have been searching and the manufacturer is permatex, I have bought the one from that brand that has the best price
Permatex ultra grey
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Hello again, I have already bought shock absorbers for the primary transmission, the chain is waiting for me at the post office, the sealant is on the way, but now I have to buy the plasti gauge to measure the gap, but I don't know what measure to buy, In ebay eu there are several for sale, but I don't know which one to choose, could someone help me with the choice, thanks
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On my 400f I used the Red plastiguage 0.025mm - 0.175mm but also bought Grey/White 0.018mm - 0.045mm.
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I have 3 options, which of these do I buy?
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sorry no idea of inches
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sorry no idea of inches
Try this converter Murdock
https://www.rapidtables.com/convert/length/inch-to-mm.html?insel=u&fracsel=u&f=&x=.001&n=&d=
Phil
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40 thou(sandths of an inch) = 1mm
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I guess the green .
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I guess the green .
Red worked fine for me.
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ok, i'll buy the red one right now, thanks
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a question for the experts, the bridge top is the same as other models ?, I want to change the one of my motorcycle f2 550 ss 1977
you have more experience than me in this
tank you
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a question for the experts, the bridge top is the same as other models ?, I want to change the one of my motorcycle f2 550 ss 1977
you have more experience than me in this
tank you
https://www.hondaparts-direct.com/oempartfinder?aribrand=HOM&arian=motorcycle# Enter part no: 53230-390-010 gives:
CB550FA (76) SUPER SPORT 550 FOUR, JPN, VIN# CB550F-2000003 TO CB550F-2010866
CB550FA (77) SUPER SPORT 550 FOUR, JPN, VIN# CB550F-2100001 TO CB550F-2114871
CB550KA (77) 550 FOUR K, JPN, VIN# CB550K-2000007 TO CB550K-2015308
CB550KA (78) 550 FOUR K, JPN, VIN# CB550K-2100001 TO CB550K-2122082
The part was superseded by 53231-390-010 which gives the same result.
Sorry, I don't know the difference if any. Also note that forsaid parts finder site is about US models.
It could have to do with the changed bolts: 8X56 was changed to flange bolts 7X54 (PN: 90155-369-000) on later models. Could. This modification was done because people sometimes forgot to insert the special 'D' shaped space washers into the slits. When then torqued, the top bridge could crack. If you go to the parts lists, you'll probably find out. They're all here: http://www.honda4fun.com/materiale-documentazione-tecnica/parts-list/parts-list-cb550 Let us know. ;D
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do not . It is not cracked, it is that here in Spain, to change any part that they consider important, a reform project signed by an engineer must be done, as it comes out of the factory with its original handlebar and I go with clips ons the clamps are very bad , there are plenty, that's why I wanted another one to modify it by removing them and when I finished all the modifications, do one of those projects, which are not free, so every time I go to pass the technical inspection, every 2 years I have to change those parts, in This country is full of those stupid laws, (I am not Spanish, I come from a free country and this is very annoying) I thought that maybe those of another cylinder are also the same and thus have more options to look for
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I'm very sorry for so many questions, but here where I live there are only new bmw's and harleys and I have no one with whom to exchange talks
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I think that there they only see that it is safe, here is a manual for vehicle reforms that must be respected, you cannot install parts without a European approval password, the exhausts must be manufactured purely and exclusively for that motorcycle model, with a certification, it was not possible to carry a lateral registration, or cut the chassis, etc. and what may be regulated in said manual, you need a homologation project made by an engineer, with a favorable report, and a certificate from a workshop that It has made the changes, then it must go through the mot, where the changes in the circulation permit are inspected and noted, and if one day you want to go back you need to repeat the process
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https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1977-Honda-CB550-CB-550-F-K-SOHC-top-upper-yoke-headstock-handlebar-clamps/353418826276?hash=item5249675224:g:Z1IAAOSwJnxgTOpC
It's 38 pounds for the yoke, plus 13.99 for shipping plus 12.68 for import charges, the damage that #@%$ has done
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what happened ??? I have written b.r.e.x.i.t.
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these days I have been working a little
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Very nice work!
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the engine is already home, floor three please .... thank you
I have found the chain tensioner that has been threaded, surely it ever made a complete turn, it is already repaired and it works perfectly
then I have been watching some videos of how to close again to measure with plastigauge, and I have found an unpleasant surprise if they change the connecting rod bolts, 9 euros each bolt + 9 euros each nut !!!!! , I think they will remain untouched, is there another way to see how the bearings are without separating them?
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You dont need to replace the big end bolts and nuts, they are not torque to yield type and can be re used
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thanks, that's great news !!
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You may find that getting a socket onto the big end nuts proves a problem, I ended up around 40 years ago now grinding a socket down around the outside to allow it to fit. I still have that socket today and it's found a lot of use over the years.
Not sure if you can buy a socket to fit nowadays but that was my solution. It was also the only way to get the correct torque on after or I'd have used a spanner.
I recently had to do the same
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I'll grind one, I don't think it will pose any problem, thank you, I'm more worried about having to change bearings but it is a risk that should be taken
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3/8 drive six sided sockets are best to use
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I have cleaned a little the cylinders and the number 1 piston, it seems that the chain has been very loose at times, the cylinders do not look bad but I cannot measure them without an alexometer, I do not have more rings, I suppose I will have to increase the measurement of the pistons, but until I measure the cylinders I don't know how much
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more
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Do not worry about gudgeon pin (wristpin) wear as they dont.
See what size feeler gauge you can get alongside piston skirt at 90deg to wristpin and what is the piston ring gap in the bore?
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I'm sorry, I have not understood, is this?
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lo que si he visto es que en todos los cilindros y en todas las alturas o posiciones ,siempre con la falda del piston
numero 1 tengo el mismo gap que en la foto , varia muy , muy poco
what I have seen is that in all cylinders and in all heights or positions, always with the piston skirt
number 1 I have the same gap as in the photo, it varies very, very little
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sorry, I have modified the above message that came out in Spanish
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How big a feeler gauge can you get into the gap between bottom of piston and cast liner at one of points of yellow arrow? If over .002 inch (.08mm) piston or bore or both is worn
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thus 0.010, mm but in the other direction does not enter 0.04 mm
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from left to right 0.10 mm, from top to bottom ???
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You did not listen, the only one that matters is the one at right angles to the wristpin (your smaller number)which seems within limit.
Piston are manufactured oval in the fist place so the measurement along wristpin is irrelevant.
0.04 mm is about 0.0015 thou so within tolerance for re use
If the ring gaps in bore are within tollerance you are good to go
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I got into this mess because I couldn't get more than 100 psi of compression, so it was just the rings? You think that with honing and new rings I could get at least 60 psi more, changing the primary chain, bearings, shock absorbers, seals it is already decided that I will do it, but I also thought that I should change pistons and rings
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I think probably your compression gauge is not too good and/or the valves are leaking.
Try standing the head on the inlet ports and filling the exhaust ports with petrol to see if the exhaust valves leak then after that turn it over stand it on the exhaust ports and fill the inlets.
In both cases the gasket surface will be vertical with a set of ports on the top
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Today I did that test with wd 40, not a leak, the exhaust had a lot of carbon, but they did not leak, the intake ones do not leak and they are very clean and the meter is perfect, I have many, I work with hydraulics and pneumatics every day
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the kick start no longer offered any resistance, it did not exceed 120 k / h on the highway, I know it was a bit rich but not much, with 100 jets, velocity stacs and quite open exhaust, maybe it was because of the gap in the rings , or reverse rings,
now it doesn't matter
It will be very entertaining to rebuild the engine, I guess this week I'll open it
Thank you very much for your assistance
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As Bryan has said, you need to measure piston skirt to bore clearance at front or back of piston, not at the side underneath rist pin.
Also, put the barrel upside down and let the piston go all the way down to the end of bore. If you measure them right at the bottom of the barrel, then it won't show much wear as the piston rings don't travel that far down.
Likely with velocity stacks that the rings will be worn as no dust is filtered very effectively. Just depends whether bores are too. If it runs rich as well that won't help the rings as it washes oil from the bores to increase wear.
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I dont doubt your proficience in tool use but to get a proper reading you need a short hose on the compression tester as a long hose increases the final volume by a marked amount reducing the max compression figure. A better diagnostic test for a small petrol engine is a leak down test where you put the piston on tdc compression and force air invia the plug hole then measure the % pressure drop listening for where the air leaks
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ok, that sounds good, I'll try next time, thanks for the tip
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maybe this is the way to do it ???
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The right way for the piston, yes.
But the barrels will not be worn at the top or the bottom, the piston rings don't go there when running.
Same as your picture, but 1/2 way into the barrels.
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In this photo you can now see the piston in the middle of its stroke, between its Upper Dead Center and its Lower Dead Center, the number 1 cylinder (to the left of the direction of travel) and its piston the GAP in the transverse direction is the one that can be seen, 0.10mm, 0.004 inch. ........ and if I try to put the smallest gauge I have in the longitudinal direction 0.04mm, .0015 does not fit
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Very close, but the position of the gauge needs to be 90 degrees from there.
Leave everything as it is in that picture BUT now move the gauge 1/4 around the piston and check there.
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Ok, from what I understand, instead of placing the gauge at 9 o'clock, I must place it at 12 o'clock, because what I said before, at 12 o'clock the smallest gauge I have does not fit (0.04 mm, .0015 inches)
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Aah, I undersrand now.
That is how they would be machined originally to make the clearance correct. If each piston in it's own barrel has the same measurement, then it looks like it just needs new rings and light hone to build again.
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ok, thank you very much, I still need to check the other pistons, maybe tomorrow when I come back from work, I think the goggle translator is making things a bit difficult, I'll look for another one, the pistons look like the originals, after 65000 km (that indicates the speedometer) who knows !!!, 44 years and 7 previous owners seems to be a good machine, many thanks k2-k6, by the way, what rings could I buy?
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Translation seems ok when it comes in English.
Just my understanding when looking at the picture. Another one to translate is "Babel fish" if you need one.
Hopefully someone else on here more involved in this size engine can suggest a supply of piston rings for you.
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What does the bore actually measure? Is it 58.5mm
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Yes ! More or less
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I say more or less because I do not have an alexometer or an interior caliper, but measuring the skirt of the piston that seems within tolerance it is very close
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58.5 is standard size for a 550 so you need standard rings and i wouldnt hone just take the glaze off with emery cloth or a "flap wheel"
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58.5 is standard size for a 550 so you need standard rings and i wouldnt hone just take the glaze off with emery cloth or a "flap wheel"
Yes, about "glaze busting" but I was unsure how that would translate into Spanish language :) "rompiendo el esmalte"
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Me neither and really unsure about flap wheel but as i only speak lancastrian the rest of the country never mind the world is at a dissadvantage
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in Spanish it would be grinding well or griding tooth
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Hello, today I removed the other pistons, I measured them and they are all the same as the first, the rings are healthy but worn, they have a lot of gap, they were bought 6 years ago in cruizing image or whatever it is called, I think they are not very good, just about 2000 km, I suppose that due to the velocity stacs there should be other signs of wear, there is only a small friction in the piston 3 and 4, I will buy a kit of standard size imd rings, (or do you recommend others?) I hope they are of good quality, I have taken a photo of the tool in question, whatever its name is ,ha ha
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If I can ask - where did you buy that tool?
I'll be working on my engine probably next winter so I want to prepare myself ;)
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That may take too much metal off. I am at work so when i get home i will look at ebay to get a pic of what you need
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ok, I await your answer, I am curious, other times I have done it with this tool, it has a nut that tightens the spring to regulate the pressure it exerts on the barrel, it can be very soft at low revs
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Look at ebay item 184430930041 you would need a 60mm one. The tool you have will actually remove metal and make the clearance bigger the one i link to will just remove the glaze on the bore allowing new rings to seal better.
Honda rings are best but dearest as well.
I have some of those flap wheels here but not sure of postage cost to you
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ok, it is a good excuse to replace the ones I have that are already kaput, what grain do you advise me? 120? I imagine that a very fine pass with oil
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No oil just a pass through and very good wash off afterwards
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I have it
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Maybe i'm too cautious but a proper hone can take several thou out and as the piston/bore clearance is very tight plus reusing old pistons its just me thinking it might take too much whereas the flapwheel will simply remove glaze, i used to rebuild essex, kent and pinto engines very regularly for a lead footed mate and only ever used the "glaze busters" about at the time which were basicaly long shanked flap wheels
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the few times that I have changed rings I have used a 3-legged grinding wheel like the one in the photo and I have gently scratched the surface with oil, I will see how it looks with the dry-mounted sandpaper, I have taken the precaution of buying a finer grit (150 ) I'll show you how it looks, I haven't bought the rings yet, I don't know whether to buy the 4 INTO 1 or the IMD ones, they are made of different materials
https://www.ebay.de/itm/Reproduction-Piston-Ring-Set-of-4-Standard-13011-374-000-Honda-CB550/172685809641?hash=item2834e057e9:g:ebcAAOSwPh5ZIHKB
https://www.ebay.de/itm/163318063827?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=707-53477-19255-0&campid=5338722076&toolid=10001
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anyone has experience with any of these rings?
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It doesn't matter what rings you use, if the piston to bore clearance is out of spec, the engine will smoke ;) And if you have honed it, it will be out and new rings would not work .
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If I can ask - where did you buy that tool?
I'll be working on my engine probably next winter so I want to prepare myself ;)
I used a tool like that in the late 1970's on an A series engine - the bores were brilliant afterwards - trouble was it would only tow start afterwards so had to take the engine out again to getr it rebored! Never touched a glaze breaker since!
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My GS1000 top end was "rebuilt" by that toss*r so called mechanic at RapSuberbikes. They re-honed the bores and fitted new rings, lasted 600 miles before it was smoking badly. On measuring the bore to piston clearance was over 7 thou, that's about four times as much as it should be. Gentle deglaze by hand with some oil on 1200 grit wet and dry at the most. Then check the sizes are in spec before rebuilding or you will be doing it again.
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Thats why i suggested the flapwheel, its same as using wet n dry
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well, ok, they have convinced me, I will change the whole kit, pistons and rings, at first that was the idea, leave the engine as best as possible within my possibilities. I love that motorcycle since I was 8 years old, the older brothers of My friends had some and I died of envy, so when I could after many years I got one, it is very fast and docile for traffic and small walks, I use it to go to work.
well, now determine how much will go up?
0.25 or more? What improvements can I make above to improve performance without changing barrels? I'm talking about jobs that can be done at home, when I find someone to enlarge my barrels, what tolerance should be respected?
thank you very much for your help
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hi i'm still looking for pistons someone can recommend some to buy outside uk thanks
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A lot of forum members use this source in Japan (I've used 3 kits personally) - never paid import duty to UK but not sure how it would be in Spain
https://www.cruzinimage.net/2017/08/17/74-78-honda-cb550k-0-5mm-oversize-pistons-set/
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I bought from "cruz" and never paid tax here in Spain, not problem
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Thanks, but I have already bought rings in that store 6 years ago, when they were on ebay, I don't know if they can't hold or that the lack of filters ate them, I have used them 4000 km with velocity stacs, with micro mesh filters inside. I also bought the admission rubbers there and now they are all cracked, I have doubts that they are Japanese articles, at least that was my experience
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Tienes el link de la página de cruz ???
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The rings are Riken that are used in genuine spares. As for Cruzinimage rubber items, don't bother they are rubbish. That's all Cruz items that have any amount of rubber in them.
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ok thanks now i get it
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Depends how much you want to pay for pistons?
Good quality:-
https://www.scheuerlein-motorentechnik.de/motorrad/honda/500-599-ccm/cb550fk/honda-cb550f/k-mos2-kolben-kit-uebermass-0.25 (https://www.scheuerlein-motorentechnik.de/motorrad/honda/500-599-ccm/cb550fk/honda-cb550f/k-mos2-kolben-kit-uebermass-0.25)
Cheaper quality:-
https://www.ebay.de/itm/Honda-CB-550-Four-F-K-Kolben-Kolbenring-Bolzen-Kolbenkit-0-50-Made-in-Japan/293092707188?hash=item443dafcb74:g:fQEAAOSwIOFc3m~a (https://www.ebay.de/itm/Honda-CB-550-Four-F-K-Kolben-Kolbenring-Bolzen-Kolbenkit-0-50-Made-in-Japan/293092707188?hash=item443dafcb74:g:fQEAAOSwIOFc3m~a)
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A lot of forum members use this source in Japan (I've used 3 kits personally) - never paid import duty to UK but not sure how it would be in Spain
https://www.cruzinimage.net/2017/08/17/74-78-honda-cb550k-0-5mm-oversize-pistons-set/
Philward if it's Riken's rings like Royhall says
I would buy them, have you had problems with the pistons?
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Only done about 4000 miles to date and no issues + as Roy says, they are (I'm told) what Honda used
Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk
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A word of warning about Cruzinimage, don't be tempted to email them for information. If you do they will block you and you won't be able to buy from them. Their a strange bunch.
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I behave in the same way with whatsapp , jajaja
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The link was from there direct website Roy - too avoid the eBay blocking issue (I'm blocked)
Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk
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Me too.
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I have been looking at a yamaha xs 650 forum and many recommend their pistons, so tonight I will buy them, they also say that the seller only speaks Japanese and they all have communication problems, in their ebay store they do not have items for sale, I guess The rings that I bought 6 years ago were worn by dust or a bad settlement, I will give them another chance this time, you see with pistons
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today I play a bit of polishing and cleaning carburettors
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Looking good!
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Hello, while I wait for the pistons I bought in Japan to arrive I keep disarming and cleaning parts
But I stopped when trying to remove the rotor,the central screw is very hard and I think then you need an extractor, there is some trick to remove this ?
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Easiest way to remove rotor bolt is an impact wrench either air or electric, yes there is a special tool to remove rotor it looks like a bolt that screws into rotor after holding bolt is out. DO NOT USE A 3 LEGGED PULLER
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I bought an M16 1.5 bolt from this seller. Worked perfectly.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/291185866163
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Thank you very much for the tip !!!
You saved me a lot of time
The screw was very hard
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Sorry to abuse your wisdom, but does anyone know if there is an oil pump seal kit for sale?
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The 3 O rings to crankcase should come in a complete gasket kit and the cover O ring Honda never sold as a spare but if you get a 46x2 O ring which is a Goldwing part it works
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Unfortunately my seals kit does not have them, the pump I do not plan to open it, that will be the 46, only would be the ducts and the one that seals the body to the housing, then try to measure it, but measures more than 50 mm x 3mm small I think 14
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They do not come in the SEAL kit they come in the GASKET kit
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My kit is not complete, I have taken measurements, 14x 3 mm and 53 x 3 mm I think it would work well, the 46 mm will be the inside, but I will not open the pump.
I will buy them loose for a few cents.
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I have opened the engine, everything seems fine, but I have found some wear or rubbing on the central selector fork, I don't know what gear it engages, the gearing looks fine, tomorrow I will check it in a better light.
Those are the numbers I was supposed to find right?
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The gear
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Sorry to abuse your wisdom, but does anyone know if there is an oil pump seal kit for sale?
I can supply oil pump kits in Viton . PM me for a members discount >>> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/164714270515?hash=item2659bc4f33:g:UO0AAOSwYc5fvRQ4
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It's better to be clever than to buy more tools,
I don't know if I should worry about the shift fork, I'd just give it a little sanding and that's it, but you're the experts.
The bearings look good too. I have plastigauge ..... I don't know what to do , I change the chains and rubbers ,Seals and seal again ?
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Chain friction was negligible
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I would replace the fork, with that wear it is probably bent the 550 primary chain does not hit as much as the 500 presumably the casting is different, still worth replacing chain and dampers
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Yes, that was programmed, but is it worth checking the connecting rod bearings? The crankshaft ones seem like a no-brainer.
I will try to find a fork, they are no longer available.
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Shouldnt be worn but maybe dirt damaged so worth looking
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Thanks, oddjob I'll see if you send it to Spain
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I have opened the engine, everything seems fine, but I have found some wear or rubbing on the central selector fork, I don't know what gear it engages, the gearing looks fine, tomorrow I will check it in a better light.
Those are the numbers I was supposed to find right?
Pictures 3 & 4 are the correct pictures for the markings.
No idea what pic 2 is meant to be.
Will it be the date of manufacture or assembly?
https://www.ebay.com/p/1711838624 seems cheap.
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Today rubbers ,
After 44 years,
The difference is very palpable,
now it looks like a solid piece
I'm still looking for the shift fork,
If anyone has one for sale
...........
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I got the same results in all , I see it great , what is your opinion ? And now what is the next step?
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How I was dying of boredom I started to do something and disassemble the connecting rod number 2 , this is what I found , tomorrow I will continue with the others , since I have reached this Point I thought I also had to check them , I guess everything is fine , I hope the opinion of the experts of this forum , I managed to buy the fork of the change from eBay for 25 dollars , hopefully it will arrive soon , I have lost track of the pistons I bought from cruzin , since the 16th , apparently they are still in Tokyo.
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Yes, that was already clear to me, from left to right sitting on the bike from 1 to 4.
I have checked all the connecting rods and they are also fine ,
They are already repositioned with assembly grease and at 45 Newton meters.
I think I will spend some time polishing and cleaning parts and bolts until the shift fork arrives.
When the weather improves ( in April it rains a lot ) I will paint the engine.
I have to take care of the other bikes
They tend to get jealous
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How nice! It arrived ! Now I have all the ingredients for the cake !
What I do not like is that I still have no news of the cruzin image pistons.
The fork took 10 days from the USA
And the pistons are 20, I hope they arrive soon.
Has anyone had this problem with cruzin ?
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Mine arrived within 10 days (that was late last year)
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7-10 days from Cruzinimage to us in UK at the moment.
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I will try to contact them, I know what can happen.
Now I have another problem
When I disassembled the engine I removed the crankshaft seals and I can't find them, I have a picture of them.
But I also have this seal that comes in the kit
And I don't know what is its place ?
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Think thats the clutch actuating arm seal? - 23 in this diagram https://images.cmsnl.com/img/partslists/honda-cb500k2-general-export-e-10-left-crankcase-cover-starting-motor-oil-pump_big3IMG01171114_6444.gif
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Ok, so I don't need it, my bike doesn't have that, but the seal that you see in the photo next to the crankshaft is not the same, it doesn't have the metal inside, just the spring like any other seal?
Thanks
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This is my cover
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I can't imagine where this one is from either ?
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Can't calculate seal size but could it be the seal for the long clutch push rod? 26 in diagram?
https://images.cmsnl.com/img/partslists/honda-cb500k2-general-export-e-15-transmission_big3IMG01171119_410b.gif
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Thank you very much , you are very kind , maybe I should have told you in the beginning what is a 1977 France F2 and maybe that was not my kit , but I think it will work anyway . I don't know if it will be the same as the oil seal which no longer has the metal washer.
But I think the one in the kit will hold.
In the photo you can see a mark on the trunnion that was made by the washer.
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Where I bought it I said for 500 and 550 ´this is the product in cmsnl, I think it only varies in the one of the clutch regulator and in the push rod cap, I think I will not have problems
I will replace the same cap
today I'm going to put the parts together
https://www.cmsnl.com/products/oil-seal-kit-oe_90000323000p/
ask the experts, inside the seals do I usually put a little grease for pneumatic seals,
on the outside? Should I put in some Hondabond?
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ok, no problem, thank you very much
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Great ! it's already closed , it was easy ,
I will soon put it back on the bike,
I have sent a message to cruzzin , see if I get a reply , it's been 22 days in Japan post is still in Tokio
I think I will have to contact Paypal
One question
Is there any trick to tighten the rotor again ?
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curiosities
https://www.fb-stuff.com/fb-stuff-store.html
https://www.otherlifecycles.com/product/custom-honda-cb-550-f-super-sport-alternator-cover/
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Hello, new question for the experts, 2 questions, would someone tell me the size of the thread that comes out of the gas tank? , is to put a reduction to 1/4 and place a hidden tap 550 ss 1977
the other is that I need this part, my motorcycle has never had it and I would like to get it
number 13
gracias
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There are 2 different types of gas tank for the 550f.
Please show us a picture of the threat.
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hello again, after rebuilding the engine I think it has not yet run or 100 kilometers and as the motorcycle is the same or worse than before, with the problems of trying to work well with individual filters, changing jets, raising and lowering the needle and removing the carburetors hundreds of times, more than now perfectly configure the points that were never right the problem has worsened and now everything is black smoke this problem I have been carrying for many years I think I will return to the original filter box, my carburettors are the 069 a ( ss 1977 )
I know that the factory setting is 38 slow, 98 main, 22 mm float, but what I am not clear about is the position of the clip, is it the second from bottom to top?
the exhaust is 4 to 1 not original, it is a cheap megaphone that sounds loud, but I don't think it needs any adjustment
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Needles originalyin centre groove but oce youalter induction orexhaust all bets are off
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OK THANKS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE 5 NOTCHES
I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT MEANS (but you change the induction or exhaust all bets are off.) Sorry we don't speak the same language
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I think you ask me if I change the air inlet, I will replace once and for all what ever the motorcycle had the original air box with all its components except the rubber nozzle that goes under the seat, since I have changed for a flatter seat and it does not fit, I have exhausted my passience with the individual filters, more or less it worked, but, after rebuilding the engine and tuning the ignition, it no longer works well
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It means thatonce you start altringthe inlet or exhaust nobody has any idea of what to do
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If we're talking the CB550F model, there will be no middle position for the jet needle, as there are only 4 positions in total. According to the original Shop Manual Honda CB500-550 p.165*, needle clip needs to be 2nd from top. Caution: top is top and not tip. When you lower the clip on the needle, the needle's position will rise and vice versa. Main jet is #98, slow jet #38 and airscrews are supposed to be 11/2 turn out +/- 1/2 turn. This is with genuine Keihin parts in 069A carbs.
Note that jet needles and airscrews differ from those applied in CB500/550K models. The F models had solid airscrews, the K models were open ended and cross drilled. The jet needle of the F models is tapered differently than the needle in the K models. For part numbers, you may consult the PDF below.
* https://www.dropbox.com/s/88zdzlj8olqi8pl/Honda%20CB500_CB550
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A long time I have worn marks on the throttle , many times I have run at different speeds and stopped to check the spark plugs , and many times I have been close to what works well throughout the range , but every time I go back out on it responds differently , because it is hot , because it is cold , because it is going to rain , because it is very early , etc , we all know that it is not a carburettor battery easy to remove , it is not like a Guzzi for example which you can disassemble a whole dellorto without removing it from the bike , I got tired of not being able to enjoy the bike , I will put back the original box to see how it behaves , and I will think if someday I try it again
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Ok, I have all the jets saved, but the needles are still on the bike, I thought they had 5 notches, I don't remember now, maybe I'm confused with other needles I have at home.
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My needles have 5 positions, they are 273004 I think they are the correct ones for the model 550 ss from 1977 with 069a carburettors, so I am confused, in which position should I place the clip, in the manual it specifies the second one, but does not specify whether to bottom up or top down
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Honda always determines the clip postion from top. Actually I am surprised the 273004 needle has five slots, so I have to investigate wherever I got that idea. Anyway, Honda is clear about the position: 2nd from top. But... I don't think the issues you experience, have much to do with a jet needle being one notch higher or lower. But that's just an opinion.
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Well today again my my motorcycle has let me down, I have replaced the original filter box with its original jets, 38 and 98, the original needle in its original diffuser, in the second notch from top to bottom 22 mm at the level of 1/12 float in the mixture, adjusted the points in the F, cleaned the spark plugs, and it does not run well,
At 1/4 throttle the grgrgrgrgrgr begins and it does not lift up until I exceed half the throttle, but they do not stop completely, it has improved a lot to 1/4, but nothing else, the carburettors were synchronized on the bench, both in total closure as in total opening, the only difference with the originality is that the air box inlet does not have a rubber elbow and that the exhaust silencer is a short megaphone with fiber inside
I have not sprayed the carburettors for leaks yet, but I know that in carburetor number 2 one of the four tank bolts is not tightening.
Could it be a spark plug failure? At idle I have loosened the cables one by one and in cough the change is heard, it may be that the battery is completely dead, I don't know what to do anymore, I thought everything would return to normal
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I've scanned all the posts here and - frankly - I can't believe the ignition was not mentioned before. Not until your last post, I mean. Ignition is where I'd start. Sparkplug noses can give a clue ofcourse, but here are some simple tests, if you happen to run the standard ignition.
Faulty condensers may cause arcing as shown in the vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3cuvGVwnjI At the breakerpoints a bit of sparking is normal, excessive sparking or arcing is not good and can indicate a bad condenser. In this vid the left condensor (1+4) is bad, right condensor (2+3) is good.
Video: courtesy Ulf Penner
When you're at it, check none of the forked connectors at the breakerpoints accidentely ground to the plate. This grounding can be intermittent! Especially the 2+3 connectors are at risk, as they have a crosshead nearby.
To check the quality of the sparks, I have this simple tool: a copper wire which has an alligator clip on one end and is stranded open on the other.
Two ca. 0,4mm thick pieces cut out of an old credit card to be used as isolators.
Here is how it works.
Isolate breakerpoints as shown in the pic.
Attach alligator clip to the small center bolt of the breakerpoints, either 1+4 or 2+3.
Unplug plugcaps 1+4 or 2+3. You could unscrew the sparkplugs, but test can also be performed with reserve plugs.
Connect plugcaps to the sparkplugs that are out and are firmly (!) grounding to the engine block.
Turn on the ignition. Relax, both breakerpoints are isolated, so the coils are not taxed.
Simply move the stranded copper wire loosely over any part of the engine or frame (unpainted).
The effect will be a rapid serie of sparks very similar to when engine is running.
Verify the sparks are white or blue and not red.
Compare to the other set.
The advantage of the method is, you hardly use power and it will save you cranking the engine.
But above all: due to the stranded copper wire, there is this very rapid firing, which results in much more realistic sparks than by just holding a sparkplug to the block and crank one turn. The difference is huge.
How sure are you about the plugcaps? The coils secundary is around 14-15kΩ, so in total a circuit (either 1+4 or 2+3) will read 24-30kΩ if you have resistor plugcaps. If you read more than say 31kΩ, unscrew plugcaps from the leads to be checked individually. Ideally resistor plugcaps will read around 5-7kΩ. When over 8kΩ, replace. BTW, do not run resistor caps and resistor plugs. When you have the choice, I'd prefer resistor caps. Realise that like sparkplugs, plugcaps have a limited lifespan, so when in doubt, replace.
Have you verified the advancer advances and retards smoothly?
I hope you're not offended, if I have posted what is all too familiar for you. Just ignore.
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I would not be offended at all, what remains here will serve others
I usually check the ignition with the lights off, when a capacitor is defective, sparks are sometimes smaller than in the video
the plug caps are resistive 5 ohms and the ngk d7es plugs are no longer available, only the dr7es that are also resistive, that does not add up to 10 ohms, the sum of the 2 resistances is half of one, I will order a new set of spark plugs, I think I have a saved capacitor, I will review mine better, and I will try the method of isolated points, thank you very much
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Murdoch, I think D7EA are the correct plugs to work with resistor caps - they are available
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d7ea will it be the replacement ??? I can't get the d7es around here, someone is using them and could I confirm it?
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http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,25753.msg235941.html#msg235941
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D7EA is the replacement for D7ES
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ok, thanks, I will buy new spark plugs and new capacitors, I could try to place the ones from my guzzi
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Hello , does anyone have the reference number of any equivalent capacitor , or the value in uf ? Beru , Magnetti , Marelli , facet , etc thanks
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found, page 88 of the honda manual, 0.24 uf +/- 10%
over 10 mega ohms
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Its the temperature that can cause problems, it gets hot inside the points cover
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Do you believe ? Now that you mention that before the reconstruction I had another type of cover, a cast aluminum one made in France, and now I have one that I bought from a kz that is narrower, I am a race without the cover to see if I notice any changes, but I do not think it's that
today I started the bike in complete darkness with the spots exposed,
at start-up there was a small fart, only one, a small piff typical of a leak,
I still don't spray the carburettors one or two little red blue sparks came out of the 1.4 platinum, but then revving for a few minutes never happened again, all this in the dark
total.
I don't have a strobe gun, but through the sight glass on the platter you can see that the feed was increasing in size with centrifugal force normally
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Today I have sprayed the 4 carburetors below and above the nozzles, tanks and covers with engine starters and nothing, there is no air intake.
So I'll wait for a capacitor that I need to change and the spark plugs to see what happens, listening carefully to the engine with an accelerated idle, does not sound round
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New spark plugs and capacitors ok, it purrs like a cat, but remains the same, I suspect that it is the battery that is dead, I do not know if being depleted it removes intensity from the primary of the coil and that is the problem
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after a while I still have the problem, the engine keeps failing,
new capacitors,
perfectly statically adjusted points,
valves with perfect gap,
revised coils, revised cables,
tapas not oem (but I don't think that's why it should fail),
test lamp between spark plug and wires in all 4 ok.
rebuilt engine,
pistons and rings + 0.50 with 150 km
069a carburettors,
factory settings,
statically synchronized,
synchronized butterfly valves,
38 and 99 jets
needle in second position,
floats in 22 mm,
no leaks or air intakes
oem air filter,
4a1 tubes with megaphone silencer,
mixing screw in 1 1/2
starts instantly and sounds very smooth
with the throttle grip marked when it reaches 1/8 it starts to stutter. if I accelerate quickly when cutting a small portion of black smoke comes out, black ollin spark plugs,
Could someone give me some advice on how to follow to find the reason for the failure?
Thank you
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Another member on here had something similar and it was the new fuel pipe shedding small partivles internally blocking the jets
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all the spark plugs are black, now with the original air filter it is a pain of bollocks to remove the carburetors, I will try to measure the height of the gasoline in each carburetor to see if I can find out something,
Soon I will receive new orings for the yets, I will try to change them with the carburetors on the bike, maybe when I open them I will find something, I do not know
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Definitely wait to try those seals for the jets first.
As you've already checked most of the other items and still have something odd, these would have that effect.
From your description (black plugs and black smoke) it sounds like just too much fuel is being taken into the engine. All of the fuel is supposed to be carefully measured through the jet size, but if there's another way round that jet with failed seals it will just suck through that route too and add excess fuel to the main jet volume.
Hopefully the seals will give you a significant change to see.
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https://anonfiles.com/7dL6Z8Xdu0/fallo_mp4
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This is proving such a pain for you this running issue Murdock. I assume when you state that your mixing screws are 1 1/2 turns in! You mean 1 1/2 turns out from softly seated. Sorry if I’m stating the obvious. I would be very surprised if some of the forum members don’t come up with a solution on this ongoing issue. There’s probably quite a number on here that would love to have the bike in front of them to give a good check over to help get to the bottom of it. Good luck! Hope you get sorted soon.
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creo que no hace falta responder a tu pregunta .
lo siento si no se entiende , pero debo usar el traductor de google para intentar salvar la barrera del lenguaje
I don't think it is necessary to answer your question.
sorry if it is not understood, but I must use google translator to try to overcome the language barrier
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Black smoke, the first that comes to mind is unsufficient air. Maybe I have asked this before, but have you already tried with airfilter disconnected, to rule out a (partially) blocked air intake?
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no lo he probado mañana lo are , el filtro no es nuevo ,no esta sucio , pero es muy viejo
I have not tried it tomorrow I will, the filter is not new, it is not dirty, but it is very old
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Just disconnect it and also that breather tube if that is still connected to the airfilter case, so you can also check what comes out of that breather tube.
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quitare la tapa y el filtro de aire , el tubo del breather , no esta conectado y el de abajo de la caja tampoco tiene tubo y esta destapado ,
supongo que tambien probare con las mariposas a ver si mejora la combustion
I will remove the cover and the air filter, the breather tube is not connected and the one below the box does not have a tube and is uncovered,
I suppose that I will also try with the butterflies to see if it improves the combustion
gracias
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delta , debo de darte las gracias , y una explicacion , cuando compre la motocicleta una de las primeras cosas que cambie aparte de la ingesta de aire original fue el asiento por uno plano , ahora al instalar nuevamente la caja de aire original quedan apenas unos 3 centimetros libres , encerrados entre el marco y el asiento , lo que no permitia una buena ingesta de aire , devi de darme cuenta antes , he quitado la tapa y el elemento filtrante , inmediatamente el motor sono a gloria
Delta, I must thank you, and an explanation, when I buy the motorcycle one of the first things that I changed apart from the original air intake was the seat for a flat one, now when installing the original air box there are only about 3 Free centimeters, enclosed between the frame and the seat, which did not allow a good air intake, I realized before, I removed the cover and the filter element, immediately the engine sounded glorious
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fui a probar u na vuelta , la respuesta del motor era bastante buena , pero no lo suficiente , al regresar a casa he quitado las bujias numero 1 y 4 , esto luego de la autovia 2km para llegar a casa , donde no puedo correr
estan muy grises , pero no fueron limpiadas antes , igualmente intentare otra prueba con el elemento filtrante sin la tapa
I went to try a lap, the engine response was quite good, but not enough, when I returned home I removed the spark plugs number 1 and 4, this after the 2km highway to get home, where I cannot run
They are very gray, but they were not cleaned before, I will also try another test with the filter element without the cover
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This is the number 4
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Muchas gracias hombre por su explanacion en Espanol. Me gusta (gusto?) mucho! Intenta la próxima vez con bujias limpiadas o nuevas. Para mejor resultado agrega una cucharada de aceite de castor al tanque de gas. Eso lo hace mas facil leer colorante.
Thanks. I appreciate your replies in Spanish. When you try next time, use cleaned sparkplugs or new. You may add a spoonful of castor oil to the gastank to arrive at an easier to read result.
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aceite de ricino ??? podrias contarme un poco mas sobre eso ? se que huele muy bien
Castor oil ??? could you tell me a little more about that? I know it smells very good
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In the past, when gasoline contained lead, it was easy to read plug noses. With todays unleaded gas it is not so easy. Just a spoonful of castor oil in a gastank will produce a good interpretable color indication on plug noses, just like in the old days. There's no sideeffect. It will smell nice.
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Did you know that airplane engines in WW1 ran on caster oil in the engine. It's why Castrol is named as it is, after Caster oil, however the fumes gave the pilots the shits and the ground crew regularly had to hose out the cockpit as as result, no toilets in the sky fellas ;D
Just saying, don't breathe the fumes too much ;D ;D
Thank you, Oddjob!!! Man, I was to be operated. I've just called the hospital to cancel and say the can give the cork to someone else. ;D I've always guessed castrol came from caster oil. The inventor of the oilfilter named his product Purolator from pure oil later. Hope Purolator is still around. They are the best.