Honda-SOHC

SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB500/550 => Topic started by: SPR on July 30, 2022, 10:45:32 AM

Title: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on July 30, 2022, 10:45:32 AM
Back in the fold after the effects of the last couple of years left me without a bike .....

Just picked up this rather nice 500/4 .... always room for improvement and I probably paid a little too much but NOS Honda pipes and seat a few years back ... and well it looks nice :)

Cheers

Simon

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on July 30, 2022, 11:15:06 AM
That's a very nice looking bike you have there.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on July 30, 2022, 11:19:41 AM
That's a very nice looking bike you have there.

Thanks - they have to change the gaitors so I'll not have it in my garage till next week .... can't wait

Simon
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Nurse Julie on July 30, 2022, 12:02:40 PM
Very nice. If you have as much fun on your K1 as I do on mine, you will see it's an excellent choice of model.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on July 30, 2022, 12:20:51 PM
Very nice. If you have as much fun on your K1 as I do on mine, you will see it's an excellent choice of model.

I'm hoping the smiles will be there :) 
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Oddjob on July 30, 2022, 01:48:06 PM
Very tidy that. I'm betting it wasn't cheap though, the seat doesn't quite look right though, not sure why but the chrome strips on the seat and tank should line up, is it not shut properly?
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on July 30, 2022, 03:33:54 PM
Very tidy that. I'm betting it wasn't cheap though, the seat doesn't quite look right though, not sure why but the chrome strips on the seat and tank should line up, is it not shut properly?

I'd had it open to check underneath etc ... not sure if I closed it

Now you have me worried - I'll double check it when it arrives and post some close up pictures to see if we can work out if there is an issue

It wasn't super cheap but I didn't feel as if I'd paid too much over the odds that it would cause me any sleepless nights ..

Simon

edit - this is the other side

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on July 30, 2022, 03:55:29 PM
The seat does not look fully closed to me looking at the catch side. The front of the seat looks as if it's high on the tank. Mine looks like that when it's not closed down fully.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Oddjob on July 30, 2022, 03:55:50 PM
Looks ok from the left side, probably seat not latched.

Little tip, check the side stand, they can get a slight bend in them from setting off with the stand down, usually bends them backwards a little, this then causes the stand to hit No1 exhaust pipe and denting it. Yours look ok but try just flicking the stand up with your foot and see if it gets close or hits. Best to fix this now if it does before it dents a nice new exhaust.

I have some mods in the pipeline for the side stand on a 500, mainly engine cutoff if you set off with it down, buzzer to warn you it is down when ignition on and a way of altering the angle it sits at so it doesn't hit the exhaust.

Another tip, try and route the HT leads across the top of the engine, stops them arcing better, stops water being forced down the lead and into the cap as it faces forward your way, also if the engines running and you reach down to switch the key you stand a chance of a shock as your hand gets close to the lead, not pleasant getting a nice shock when it's raining. Best bet is to reverse the coils so the leads come out of the back instead of the front, can mean you need to swap the coils over so 1-4 is on the right instead of the left etc. Believe me it's a worthwhile mod and it tends to look tidier afterwards with no leads dangling across the exhausts.

You getting rid of the kidney splitter? looks nice with it on.

Whoever restored that did a decent job.

One last tip, try removing the engine bolts at the front, the ones that go through the engine casing. Do one at a time, grease them up and refit. I'm having to get some out of an old casing that have bonded themselves in, heat, hammer and impact gun having no effect, a little preventative work now can save a LOT of work years done the line. I'd do them all TBH but that's up to you. Those bolts are really exposed and get really battered by the weather etc.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Laverdaroo on July 30, 2022, 04:14:36 PM
What a lolely bike, good man!!!! :o

 I dont care what you paid for it, it was money well spent. Any smile inducing, two wheeled apliance is a good buy, especially one as fettled as that. Loving the kidney splitter on the front, looks ace ;) :)
Bet youre itching to go out, let us know if it rides as well as it looks. 8)
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on July 30, 2022, 04:17:51 PM
Looks ok from the left side, probably seat not latched.

Little tip, check the side stand, they can get a slight bend in them from setting off with the stand down, usually bends them backwards a little, this then causes the stand to hit No1 exhaust pipe and denting it. Yours look ok but try just flicking the stand up with your foot and see if it gets close or hits. Best to fix this now if it does before it dents a nice new exhaust.

I have some mods in the pipeline for the side stand on a 500, mainly engine cutoff if you set off with it down, buzzer to warn you it is down when ignition on and a way of altering the angle it sits at so it doesn't hit the exhaust.

Another tip, try and route the HT leads across the top of the engine, stops them arcing better, stops water being forced down the lead and into the cap as it faces forward your way, also if the engines running and you reach down to switch the key you stand a chance of a shock as your hand gets close to the lead, not pleasant getting a nice shock when it's raining. Best bet is to reverse the coils so the leads come out of the back instead of the front, can mean you need to swap the coils over so 1-4 is on the right instead of the left etc. Believe me it's a worthwhile mod and it tends to look tidier afterwards with no leads dangling across the exhausts.

You getting rid of the kidney splitter? looks nice with it on.

Whoever restored that did a decent job.

One last tip, try removing the engine bolts at the front, the ones that go through the engine casing. Do one at a time, grease them up and refit. I'm having to get some out of an old casing that have bonded themselves in, heat, hammer and impact gun having no effect, a little preventative work now can save a LOT of work years done the line. I'd do them all TBH but that's up to you. Those bolts are really exposed and get really battered by the weather etc.

Brilliant - the jobs are lining up already .... I'm sure I re routed the leads on the 550 I had but I'm old and can't quite remember :)

I'll work through your tips and especially the side stand !

TBH I love the kidney splitter plate ... odd I know but the rest of the bike could have ben a dog and I'd still have walked away owning it  :-[
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Charliecharlcomb on July 30, 2022, 04:19:39 PM
Back in the fold after the effects of the last couple of years left me without a bike .....

Just picked up this rather nice 500/4 .... always room for improvement and I probably paid a little too much but NOS Honda pipes and seat a few years back ... and well it looks nice :)

Cheers

Simon

(Attachment Link)

It's a beauty, well done and enjoy it.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on July 30, 2022, 04:21:00 PM
What a lolely bike, good man!!!! :o

 I dont care what you paid for it, it was money well spent. Any smile inducing, two wheeled apliance is a good buy, especially one as fettled as that. Loving the kidney splitter on the front, looks ace ;) :)
Bet youre itching to go out, let us know if it rides as well as it looks. 8)

Yep - will be next weekend ..... can't wait as I've missed having one TBH (I've a MG BGT as well, which is lovely, but it just isn't the same feeling )
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on July 30, 2022, 05:46:16 PM
I love the front number plate mounting position.

.This was mine back in the 1960's.
.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50432719296_c3dfe7ddf7_w.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jQySp3)Ted's Honda 250 circa 1967 (https://flic.kr/p/2jQySp3) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: honda-san on July 30, 2022, 06:53:30 PM
Saw that very bike at Scarcliffe bike night this last Tuesday. Ridden in by the owner of Bill Lomas Motorcycles at Clay Cross near Chesterfield. Sounded very sweet.
Very nice.

Chris R.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Nurse Julie on July 30, 2022, 07:42:15 PM
Here's how the seat/ tank line up on our 500 K0. Maybe the seat lock plunger just needs adjustment on yours which is a simple job. I bet you can't wait to get your hands on it.

[attachimg=1]

Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Seabeowner on July 30, 2022, 07:44:15 PM
Looks great standing still. Looks like original tank trim, or someone has arranged some joints in the right positions. Quite unusual on a refurb. All the new pipe supplies had about dried up when I looked in 2015. Although I do have a receipt from 1998 when they were £88 per pipe from DSS.
The Honda genuine fork shrouds are pricey, but last and last.
There were clips attached to the top of the breather cover originally for the 1 and 4 plug leads.
Even on dry days it can take some time to get dirt out of all the surfaces to keep it looking smart. Something for the winter.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Oddjob on July 30, 2022, 07:53:09 PM
Is the kidney splitter a pressed metal one of a reversed engraved or Perspex one?

I've got to say I disliked the metal ones when they were fitted in the 70s but a nice single sided plate that's easy to clean makes a real difference. Even though my front guard is ABS plastic off a Cb900FZ I may think about getting some brackets and fitting one now.

Plus a perspex one would shatter rather than maim like the metal versions in the event of an accident of course.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on July 30, 2022, 08:33:25 PM
Thanks everyone ......

Yep the bike was from Bill Lomas and he had taken it to Scarcliffe.

The front plate is the pressed metal double sort - two piece back to back.

I'll check if the HT lead clips are present ... there are a few bits I've noticed that require some fettling - half the fun as long as it runs OK :)

It was refurbed some years ago - probably why the seat and pipes are originals - but doesn't look to have done much mileage since.

It's not mint by any stretch but should be rewarding riding and improving

Cheers

Simon
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: philward on July 30, 2022, 09:38:43 PM
What a great bike! Brings back memories of my black 500 I bought new in 1972. Enjoy!
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: deltarider on July 31, 2022, 08:34:15 AM
If you will allow me, what is a kidney splitter? To make Cornish pie?
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: bruxby-clive on July 31, 2022, 10:32:39 AM
That's a really nice looking 500, enjoy.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Laverda Dave on July 31, 2022, 10:53:09 AM
Very, very tasty :)
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on July 31, 2022, 11:16:21 AM
If you will allow me, what is a kidney splitter? To make Cornish pie?

The front number plate on the front mudguard ....
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: deltarider on July 31, 2022, 12:22:50 PM
Ah... thanks. Not a very good thing for sidewinds, I assume.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Oddjob on July 31, 2022, 01:56:17 PM
It got the nick name Kidney Splitter because it was reputably causing major internal damage to pedestrians in the event you collided with one. How true this was I can't say but there must have been some truth as the government banned them from new bikes in the mid 70s. Still legal to have one fitted if it had one before though.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Matt_Harrington on August 02, 2022, 09:38:32 AM
 have to great looking bike and rather grand in black. Enjoy...
Matt
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on August 05, 2022, 09:17:58 PM
So arrived at last ...... that's a long wait to change some fork gaitors !!

Overall having time to look round it I'm pleased .... there are a couple of bits ofcourse that could be better - the obvious being the alternator cover and the rear light / plate holder .... tyres are 2014 on rear and no date on front so these need to be swopped asap ( any recommendations greatly received)

I was annoyed slightly when it was dleivered and I could hear a squeak / metallic rattle as it came down the drive ..... took it out and it was definately brake related. Obviously something to do with removing forks and the caliper to do the gaitors. I took the caliper off and no grease behind pads and they were crusty !! clenaed up and applied some copper grease and adjusted / bled brakes and fingers crosssed a ride round the block would suggest the noise has gone. I will order some new pads to swap.

Some pics below of random angles so any eagle eyed experts can point out anything amiss

I'll update more after a proper ride tomorrow

Simon

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]

[attachimg=3]

[attachimg=4]

[attachimg=5]
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on August 05, 2022, 09:19:32 PM
More

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]

[attachimg=3]


The bad bits

[attachimg=4]

[attachimg=5]
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: K2-K6 on August 05, 2022, 09:48:45 PM
Bike looks very good.

Tyres, Continental k112 & RB2 if available in the right size for modern tyres with a classic and fairly original look.

Front brake if dragging, check free movement of caliper arm on pivot with caliper removed. Also dismantle and properly clean the piston seal groove then reassemble with silicone grease in seal and pad side of piston. Properly clean and set like this makes significant difference to operation, power and pad glazing. Many of these caliper are never cleaned in any serious way and the performance shows it.

Bet you're looking forward to getting out on it.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on August 05, 2022, 10:30:49 PM
Bike looks very good.

Tyres, Continental k112 & RB2 if available in the right size for modern tyres with a classic and fairly original look.

Front brake if dragging, check free movement of caliper arm on pivot with caliper removed. Also dismantle and properly clean the piston seal groove then reassemble with silicone grease in seal and pad side of piston. Properly clean and set like this makes significant difference to operation, power and pad glazing. Many of these caliper are never cleaned in any serious way and the performance shows it.

Bet you're looking forward to getting out on it.

Cheers ... I forgot about the arm pivot !!

I'd spotted the Continentals ... just need to try and locate the sizes in stock

Proper run first thing tomorrow :)

Simon
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Trigger on August 05, 2022, 10:55:41 PM
Looks good apart from the routing of the brake pipe from the M/C and the M/C cap . Why did they not re anodize the master cylinder. It looks like it is off a USA bike with that sun bleach look.
The front number plate is also incorrect for a UK bike but, near on impossible to find the correct one.

It maybe my old eyes but, is that engine number starting with a 21***** ?  A UK 500K1 from 1972 should be 20*****


[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on August 06, 2022, 12:59:54 AM
That bike looks brilliant I've sent a PM about a visit possibly next weekend.
I'm a little green with envy it looks great with black bodywork. Good weather ahead as well - enjoy.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Oddjob on August 06, 2022, 01:26:00 AM
The alternator isn't that bad. However unlike the 550 you had before the inner part is separate from the cover itself. Most try and lever it off when repairing/restoring the cover but that tends to buckle them as they are quite thin. If you want to restore it you need to remove the cover itself, turn upside down and you'll see 3 small holes, these are where the pegs go that the outer cover uses to secure itself, use a small pin punch and tap them out a little at a time, don't do one entirely or you'll most likely bend the cover, a little bit on one, then the next etc. There are small metal clips inside the holes, these can rust and break up when you remove the cover. Be prepared to replace them if needed. You can restore the plate in situ but it's best done on a flat surface IMO.

I can't remember if the Made In Japan should be painted black as well, might be.

At least the cover doesn't show signs of being thrown down the road, most have.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on August 06, 2022, 07:20:52 AM
Looks good apart from the routing of the brake pipe from the M/C and the M/C cap . Why did they not re anodize the master cylinder. It looks like it is off a USA bike with that sun bleach look.
The front number plate is also incorrect for a UK bike but, near on impossible to find the correct one.

It maybe my old eyes but, is that engine number starting with a 21***** ?  A UK 500K1 from 1972 should be 20*****


Thanks ....

It matches the reg doc - but that could have been changed I suppose

I'll look in to the routing and the cap - and yes it is bleached

Thanks for having a look :)

Simon

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on August 06, 2022, 07:22:21 AM
The alternator isn't that bad. However unlike the 550 you had before the inner part is separate from the cover itself. Most try and lever it off when repairing/restoring the cover but that tends to buckle them as they are quite thin. If you want to restore it you need to remove the cover itself, turn upside down and you'll see 3 small holes, these are where the pegs go that the outer cover uses to secure itself, use a small pin punch and tap them out a little at a time, don't do one entirely or you'll most likely bend the cover, a little bit on one, then the next etc. There are small metal clips inside the holes, these can rust and break up when you remove the cover. Be prepared to replace them if needed. You can restore the plate in situ but it's best done on a flat surface IMO.

I can't remember if the Made In Japan should be painted black as well, might be.

At least the cover doesn't show signs of being thrown down the road, most have.

Excellent tips ... I was scratching my head as I thought the 550 was different .... I'll order clips just in case :)

Simon
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Trigger on August 06, 2022, 08:18:08 AM
Looks good apart from the routing of the brake pipe from the M/C and the M/C cap . Why did they not re anodize the master cylinder. It looks like it is off a USA bike with that sun bleach look.
The front number plate is also incorrect for a UK bike but, near on impossible to find the correct one.

It maybe my old eyes but, is that engine number starting with a 21***** ?  A UK 500K1 from 1972 should be 20*****


Thanks ....

It matches the reg doc - but that could have been changed I suppose

I'll look in to the routing and the cap - and yes it is bleached

Thanks for having a look :)

Simon

(Attachment Link)

If it starts with 21 then it is a CB500 K2 engine or a UK CB500 K1 1974 / 1975 unit.
On these early SOHC's the first two VIN numbers match the engine. CB500K0 is 10*****, a UK CB500K1 for 1972 and 1973 is 20***** and UK 1974 and 1975 is 21*****
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Lobo on August 06, 2022, 09:01:24 AM
Out of interest, any thoughts why Honda would have chosen an Anodised finish for the handlebar ‘furniture’…. is it simply that cheap / efficient powder coats were not avail and their standard black was not DOT 3 resistant?

Then again, the instrument casings, bridge fork top and idiot lights binnacle were painted…
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Trigger on August 06, 2022, 09:30:39 AM
Out of interest, any thoughts why Honda would have chosen an Anodised finish for the handlebar ‘furniture’…. is it simply that cheap / efficient powder coats were not avail and their standard black was not DOT 3 resistant?

Then again, the instrument casings, bridge fork top and idiot lights binnacle were painted…

The anodised finish was resistant to brake fluid and thin but, not resistant to the sun over a period of time. You can't powder coat as it is too thick  ;)
Can be just painted with a caliper paint but, use silicone brake fluid  ;)
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: K2-K6 on August 06, 2022, 10:37:07 AM
Out of interest, any thoughts why Honda would have chosen an Anodised finish for the handlebar ‘furniture’…. is it simply that cheap / efficient powder coats were not avail and their standard black was not DOT 3 resistant?

Then again, the instrument casings, bridge fork top and idiot lights binnacle were painted…

I'd guess at the hydraulic cylinder (being a first in general production bikes) could have come through engineering capability related to aircraft manufacturing as that would be typical in processes used in that field. Certainly it's one of the most durable in that use but as noted will eventually fade.

Some of the best now supplied into mtb brakes and components by Hope products is by routine all supplied with anodized finish

[attachimg=1]

It easily outlasts other manufacturers components, especially the master cylinders that are highly resistant to the rough use they get.

Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Oddjob on August 06, 2022, 11:12:27 AM
The Made in Japan isn't painted BTW, just checked. However you could paint it if you fancied it. Wouldn't look out of place IMO.

You can see the pins on this pic.

https://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/graphics/parts/11632323003_1_large.jpg
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on August 06, 2022, 12:17:20 PM

If it starts with 21 then it is a CB500 K2 engine or a UK CB500 K1 1974 / 1975 unit.
On these early SOHC's the first two VIN numbers match the engine. CB500K0 is 10*****, a UK CB500K1 for 1972 and 1973 is 20***** and UK 1974 and 1975 is 21*****

Bugger - oh well :)
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on August 06, 2022, 02:12:08 PM
The Made in Japan isn't painted BTW, just checked. However you could paint it if you fancied it. Wouldn't look out of place IMO.

You can see the pins on this pic.

https://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/graphics/parts/11632323003_1_large.jpg

Cheers
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on August 25, 2022, 06:58:05 PM
Thought I'd keep updating this as I progress

Changed out the resevoir cap and added a new side cover

Then decided to remove the electronic ignition / install a honda ignition plate etc / then install the Hondaman system already on its way.

So hit a problem stright away

The center cam on the spark advancer is removed to install the Kokusan system

I've put a wanted ad up as I'm now snookered completely till I get one ... there are a couple on eBay

[attachimg=1]

Moving on I thought I'd connect the wiring up .... oh no .... my wires from the contact plate are too short to meet the loom connectors ? Have I missed something obvious ?

*edit ........ after much messing moving the loom what seemed mm's both ends of the wires now join !!! small victories :)

More to follow no doubt :)

Simon
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Bryanj on August 25, 2022, 09:55:10 PM
4 into 1 in the US do a pettern auto advance
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on August 25, 2022, 10:02:29 PM
4 into 1 in the US do a pettern auto advance

I've got a used one coming - fingers crossed
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on August 27, 2022, 04:34:16 PM
Another small item off the list - big thanks to Julie for the tank trim .... used the original clips to give an "original" look :)

Simon

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: philward on August 27, 2022, 05:47:35 PM
Nice touch with the clips!
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on September 02, 2022, 07:28:52 PM
Well it lives - even after I've been tinkering :)

Big thanks to Jeremy (Jezzapeach) for supplying the requisite cam and some allen head screws to try !!

New Honda plate fitted and points gapped and then static timed ....... was a bit of trepadation when pressing the starter button but it fired in to life

Did the dynamic timing check with a light as well and all seems about spot on - also changed the plugs for a set of Denso X22ES-U

Lastly I'd got a NOS coil for 1&4 so fitted that as they are aftermarket very cheap looking ones that are fitted - will keep an eye out for a genuine one to replace 2&3

New to me light bracket / number plate holder arrived so dropped that off at the powder coaters

Cheers

Simon

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 02, 2022, 08:01:36 PM
Curious why go backwards from electronic to points?
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on September 02, 2022, 08:06:18 PM
Curious why go backwards fro electronic to points?

Ted - I've already got Hondamans electronic system on its way .... then found out I already had a system fitted which wouldn't be compatible - with Hondamans if it ever lets me down I can revert to the points at the side of the road

Just me being odd I suspect :)

Simon
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 02, 2022, 08:17:22 PM
Ah I understand that Simon fwiw when I drove cars mainly in the 1960s the points occasionally let me down but electronic ignition never has - touch wood.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: JezzaPeach on September 04, 2022, 10:37:03 AM
Simon, just wondering what you use to tighten the small fiddly nuts at the points connections?
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on September 04, 2022, 12:30:45 PM
Simon, just wondering what you use to tighten the small fiddly nuts at the points connections?

Do you mean where the wires join ? they were already connected as I bought the plate complete

Simon
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Bryanj on September 04, 2022, 02:18:00 PM
In the trade, needle nose pliers
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: deltarider on September 04, 2022, 02:30:35 PM
I'll soon make a pic of what I use. It's a very little wrench from a set of socalled precision tools: 5,5 mm. To prevent the other end from turning, I use a dito little socket - you don't need the ratchet, the socket is enough - also 5,5mm. Works perfect. Not so perfect but usable: the supplied pliers in the Honda tool bag.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: JezzaPeach on September 04, 2022, 09:31:00 PM
Great tips many thanks.  :)
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Oddjob on September 04, 2022, 09:32:13 PM
I have a very small spanner that came in a tool kit from some bike or other, works a treat.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Laverdaroo on September 04, 2022, 11:39:51 PM
These are quite good, about 12 quid off flea bay. Start at 5mm and go to 11 surprisingly. They’re dead thin and really handy for those sorts of jobs. Starter motor nuts etc….(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220904/2f2c394667dadd5e6bc2c52dd80c7ed6.jpg)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on September 05, 2022, 05:27:17 AM
These are quite good, about 12 quid off flea bay. Start at 5mm and go to 11 surprisingly. They’re dead thin and really handy for those sorts of jobs. Starter motor nuts etc….
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

found these

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/193263715652?epid=172611339&hash=item2cff6a4544:g:LHMAAOSwSlBYuutX&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoPOJjELp4nvD44CRV2W1H9jiaP8%2BSvpbMKfvh%2F1RX31DqDvZyoVRylgF511uDGK%2BsfFxh6DA9d0jMsKuXfh1QrRRP0%2FKMHXwczGRGI0SSXjvPhQGO6FfjkCwdz1h44NtJTf2rbOzeJAEkt5kUw6in%2B%2BcDCMHU4z0GzUGml0e0aG5JYVSFKiC4a0G3RwztrGB2DzDYe1QHJlq3DnsesbT86k%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR_jd-r3hYA
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: JezzaPeach on September 05, 2022, 06:56:49 AM
Good ones, next addition to my tool box!
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: K2-K6 on September 05, 2022, 08:29:42 AM
Obviously not a correct fitting spanner, but a useful addition to tool set are these

 [attachimg=1]

Armourers pliers available from some mod overstock supplies or some are made new. Different costs so you need to search around to get reasonable price but I paid £15 for new at a military show for some. They move the jaws completely parallel and substitute for many sizes when pushed to work with limited tools.

Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Laverdaroo on September 05, 2022, 10:42:00 AM
These are quite good, about 12 quid off flea bay. Start at 5mm and go to 11 surprisingly. They’re dead thin and really handy for those sorts of jobs. Starter motor nuts etc….
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

found these

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/193263715652?epid=172611339&hash=item2cff6a4544:g:LHMAAOSwSlBYuutX&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoPOJjELp4nvD44CRV2W1H9jiaP8%2BSvpbMKfvh%2F1RX31DqDvZyoVRylgF511uDGK%2BsfFxh6DA9d0jMsKuXfh1QrRRP0%2FKMHXwczGRGI0SSXjvPhQGO6FfjkCwdz1h44NtJTf2rbOzeJAEkt5kUw6in%2B%2BcDCMHU4z0GzUGml0e0aG5JYVSFKiC4a0G3RwztrGB2DzDYe1QHJlq3DnsesbT86k%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR_jd-r3hYA
That’s em


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: deltarider on September 05, 2022, 02:06:55 PM
This is all you need. It's so small, it will fit in the Honda toolbag. Both are 5,5mm. No ratchet needed.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: JezzaPeach on September 07, 2022, 08:53:09 PM
Game on, I just made these out of a couple of old hinges! But I like the parallel pliers.
Perhaps we need a new post on home made tools!! ;D
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on September 08, 2022, 07:47:40 PM
Small update .... I got a rear light / plate holder and have had it powder coated

I think this was one area that really let the bike down

Pics below of old v new .... I will get the old one stripped and powder coated but suspect it won't come out quite so good

Simon

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]

[attachimg=3]
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Laverdaroo on September 08, 2022, 07:59:06 PM
That looks well Sy
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on September 08, 2022, 08:30:23 PM
That looks well Sy

Well to say CMS wanted over £300 for a non genuine one I think I did OK as this cost £60 all in inc powder coating :)

Simon
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Laverdaroo on September 08, 2022, 08:33:25 PM
Ker Pow!nice one and well worth the dosh.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on September 10, 2022, 10:00:26 AM
More progress - the electronic ponits arrived from Mark and took about 10 minutes to fit .....

I also changed all the plug caps and didn't realise just how sloppy a fit the old ones were

Some dremel scothbrite wheels have arrived so may try a little polishing :)

Simon

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: deltarider on September 10, 2022, 12:18:00 PM
This is how I have mine (homebuilt). Never moved a mm.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Oddjob on September 10, 2022, 12:19:30 PM
I was talking to Mark Paris on his Hondaman system and where to mount it. I asked him if I could open the case so I could attach a bracket but he said that the countersunk screws can be removed and replaced with different ones if you need to do that.

Given all that I either intend to mount mine below the battery case or behind it Simon, just an idea as even though you can't see it, it would look tidier and more secure that way.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: deltarider on September 10, 2022, 12:31:53 PM
The location of mine has proved excellent. No heat, no vibrations thanks to the six damping rubbers in the battery cage. It's still the same 46 year old rubber strap. Mine is just a little bit canted due to the screws that fasten the power transistors, which helps to secure its position. It's impossible for the box to slide down. BTW, you'd be surprised how much space there is behind that RH side panel. I could have chosen a much bigger box.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on September 10, 2022, 12:57:36 PM
I was talking to Mark Paris on his Hondaman system and where to mount it. I asked him if I could open the case so I could attach a bracket but he said that the countersunk screws can be removed and replaced with different ones if you need to do that.

Given all that I either intend to mount mine below the battery case or behind it Simon, just an idea as even though you can't see it, it would look tidier and more secure that way.

It doesn't quite fit behind - that is as far in as I could get it .... I'll take another look and remove the battery to see if I can get it any better
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on September 10, 2022, 12:58:17 PM
The location of mine has proved excellent. No heat, no vibrations thanks to the six damping rubbers in the battery cage. It's still the same 46 year old rubber strap. Mine is just a little bit canted due to the screws that fasten the power transistors, which helps to secure its position. It's impossible for the box to slide down. BTW, you'd be surprised how much space there is behind that RH side panel. I could have chosen a much bigger box.

I'll look at that as well .... thanks
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Oddjob on September 10, 2022, 01:36:52 PM
I just like things to look right DR and that just doesn't float my boat. Whilst I appreciate there is room there and you can't see it I just prefer for things not to get in the way of removing things when I need to.

As I haven't as yet tried to fit mine due to the bike still being in bits I'll try and see where I think it will go best, as it's a fit and forget system except for the wires if it does fail, I'll try and hide it so you can't see it.

That's just me, I like things tidy.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on September 10, 2022, 01:44:44 PM
OK tried under the tray first - and fitted OK but you can see it from outside too much IMO

[attachimg=1]

Decided on behind in a different position with the wires exiting at the back and the excess hidden by the battery - can still get to the connectors if required easily .... you also don't see the wires from the side

[attachimg=2]

[attachimg=3]
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Laverdaroo on September 10, 2022, 06:14:40 PM
Much tidier, I suspect it's going to easier for Ken as he will be 'building up', not 'trying to fit in' if you know what i mean? I like the idea of it being tucked away out of sight round the back of the battery,  as it's an add on but where you've stuck that looks great. I think only those that would know......would know, If you kinda get me?! ;D
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on September 10, 2022, 09:16:27 PM
Much tidier, I suspect it's going to easier for Ken as he will be 'building up', not 'trying to fit in' if you know what i mean? I like the idea of it being tucked away out of sight round the back of the battery,  as it's an add on but where you've stuck that looks great. I think only those that would know......would know, If you kinda get me?! ;D

I'm sure you are right .... Ken will be able to get it more hidden but as is I'm OK with it and it all works - which is always a bonus :)
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: JezzaPeach on September 11, 2022, 07:58:19 AM
Simon did you mount the green ground wire to the points plate or elsewhere, it looks like that needs to follow the existing cables entering the housing?
It looks impressive, thinking of ordering one.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on September 11, 2022, 08:26:01 AM
Simon did you mount the green ground wire to the points plate or elsewhere, it looks like that needs to follow the existing cables entering the housing?
It looks impressive, thinking of ordering one.

Yep - mounted to the coil attachment screw on the points plate - so fed it through the rubber grommit and it follows the white wire sleeve back to the unit

Simon
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Laverdaroo on September 11, 2022, 12:09:15 PM
I'm back in the states as from Wednesday if you want one have it posted to me and Ill bring t back for you and that way you'll save on the postage and the faff. I dont mind in the least bit I am away for 6 weeks back on the 25th Oct, (got an Australian Pink Floyd gig which I'm not missing). I missed 'Walter Trout' while I was away last time and I had those tickets for two years and still bloody missed it!

If that helps, happy to bring bits and bobs back if you need them.

Let me know via PM 
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: JezzaPeach on September 11, 2022, 01:16:58 PM
👍 👍
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Laverdaroo on September 11, 2022, 01:33:10 PM
If you go that way, drop me a pm, I brought a couple back ast time for Juitz and another chap who lives near me. Its no bother and sould save you about £35 ish.

Its really no bother and if it helps, all good. Ive gone M-unit and everything as belt and braces but they are brilliant bits of kit and you can still get home if things go a bit TU whilst out smiling.

Let me know and happy to sort out for you. Where abouts in the country are you as I often drop bits off in person if i can, nice to put a name to a face but if you're miles away its only a recorded parcel away. No point spending dosh you dont have to .
I'm there until the 25th of Oct if you need to work that into a plan. Knowing what it slike doing one of these old biles, I should think you'll have plenty of cleaning jobs to do in the meantime while you make a decision, wait for it? ;D

Let me know and best regards as ever
Roo
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: JezzaPeach on September 11, 2022, 03:32:12 PM
Hi Roo
Yes great, I’ve sent you a message. I’m in Surrey and travel occasionally for work too.
Regards Jeremy
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Laverdaroo on September 11, 2022, 08:38:47 PM
Not received any messages Jez, are you sure :D

Try harder ;) ;D
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: JezzaPeach on September 11, 2022, 08:56:37 PM
Strange. Have sent but not appearing in sent items.
I’ll investigate.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Laverdaroo on September 12, 2022, 12:43:14 AM
I can never see what I've sent, I thought that was a 'thing'??

Like I cant sendpictures in a post, thats why I always send them from my phone and thats only pne at a time.

I love being Bill Gates' love child ;D

Bloody hopeless I am.. 8) ;D
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Oddjob on September 12, 2022, 01:01:33 AM
There is an option in your message settings to store any messages you send.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Bryanj on September 12, 2022, 08:40:10 AM
You have to tick the save sent messages in settings and you can only put pics in a pm if you are using tapatalk, according to Steve, but that dont work on my coal powered dumfone
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: JezzaPeach on September 12, 2022, 02:45:03 PM
Got it, each new message has a box, bottom left, to tick to “save message in outbox”
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Bryanj on September 12, 2022, 02:48:45 PM
If you got to settings i think you can do all messages and not individualy
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Laverdaroo on September 13, 2022, 12:33:05 AM
Doneit, nice one chaps...



Beat you Jezz ;D 8)
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: JezzaPeach on September 13, 2022, 06:48:01 AM
Found it! 🏍 ;D
Many thanks!
Hondaman kit on the way  :)
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Laverdaroo on September 16, 2022, 10:52:13 PM
Came today Jezz all present and correct mate. Already in my bag for you bud.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220916/675b1d67b260f266e072950dd115d0ff.jpg)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: JezzaPeach on September 17, 2022, 02:34:07 AM
Fantastic thanks Roo. Something to look forward to!  ;D
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on September 24, 2022, 05:42:02 PM
Small things :)

Matching locks throughout

Simon

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on October 08, 2022, 02:05:16 PM
Carb balancing note to self ........... check the pipes match left to right on the bike  ::)

Took best part of an hour with a coffee break whilst pondering why any adjustment wasn't reflecting where I thought it should on the gauge ..... then realising I'd got the tubes back to front !!!

Then the hardest part was snugging the lock nuts without altering the readings too much.

Result is though far less noise at idle and actually idles at 1050 no problem - and even a bit lower when really warmed up

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Bryanj on October 08, 2022, 04:39:11 PM
Thats why you use the special long socket with screwdriver through it
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on October 08, 2022, 04:42:42 PM
Thats why you use the special long socket with screwdriver through it

Like this Bryan ?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/352431313684?var=0&mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&campid=5338749392&toolid=20006&customid=GB_131090_352431313684.136730267003~1432267152370-g_CjwKCAjwv4SaBhBPEiwA9YzZvFKwtFYR21s0AVEwBY-9AP-Zt9H8l-2g0Xxn8ktPr40clVkYDsb4-BoCPlgQAvD_BwE
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Bryanj on October 08, 2022, 04:45:20 PM
Thats the one
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on October 08, 2022, 04:48:40 PM
Thats the one

Brilliant - thankyou :)
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: deltarider on October 08, 2022, 07:46:12 PM
And this is what I've always used. A simple 8X9 mm pipe wrench in combination with an ordinary wrench on top. I hope you can see in the pic, there's a piece of vinyl tube over it 1 cm from the pipe's end where the ordinary wrench goes, to prevent the latter from sliding down the pipe. Inside the pipe wrench an ordinary straw to narrow the passage to guide the appropiate screwdriver better. Not super, but it worked for me and cost nothing. You could also weld the wrench to the pipe, but I never bothered. Except for the screwdriver, both pipe and wrench fit in your Honda tool bag. Don't you love simplicity? ;)
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on October 08, 2022, 07:48:48 PM
And this is what I've always used. A simple 8X9 mm pipe wrench in combination with an ordinary wrench on top. I hope you can see in the pic, there's a piece of vinyl tube over it 1 cm from the pipe's end where the ordinary wrench goes, to prevent the latter from sliding down the pipe. Inside the pipe wrench an ordinary straw to narrow the passage to guide the appropiate screwdriver better. Not super, but it worked for me and cost nothing. You could also weld the wrench to the pipe, but I never bothered. Except for the screwdriver, both pipe and wrench fit in your Honda tool bag. Don't you love simplicity? ;)

I'm sure I've one in the toolbox !! Cheers I'll be looking for it tomorrow :)
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Laverdaroo on October 08, 2022, 11:47:58 PM
Thats why you use the special long socket with screwdriver through it

Like this Bryan ?

Bugger, I paid 27 quid for mine some years ago, I see they're now 11. I feel slightly grumpy about that, ney, addled!!
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on October 15, 2022, 12:00:06 PM
So .... today bit the bullet and got everything ready to swap the cases for the polished ones ..........

You have to bear in mind this for me is like Ted stripping his 500 completely !!!!

Managed to get the new clutch pushrod in and still have an operating clutch - so result

Managed to not have any oil leaks - so far

All in all is seems to have gone smoothly - albeit over 4 hours !!!

It has improved the appearance somewhat although I'm not convinced I'd go the same route again with the cases

Simon

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Johnny4428 on October 15, 2022, 12:05:33 PM
That’s looking good. A bit of shine looks as if we care. Good to see the proper JIS screws in there too.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Bryanj on October 15, 2022, 12:05:59 PM
Well done, always good to still work after doing things!
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on October 15, 2022, 12:13:42 PM
That’s looking good. A bit of shine looks as if we care. Good to see the proper JIS screws in there too.

Yep - I got all new for them
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on October 15, 2022, 12:14:04 PM
Well done, always good to still work after doing things!

Yet to road test  ;D
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 15, 2022, 01:34:50 PM
There's no stopping you Simon - nice bling covers - and a
Laverda on its way. ,👍👍👍

Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Oddjob on October 15, 2022, 02:36:50 PM
That’s looking good. A bit of shine looks as if we care. Good to see the proper JIS screws in there too.

I hate those screws with a vengeance. Allen keyed ones don't look good but replace them with the more modern 8mm headed bolts and they look great, like they were designed to have them fitted. Plus, they don't round off, you can get more grip and pressure on them, you can use a air ratchet on them no problem, or a speed bar (like an old fashioned starting handle for a car).

The left side looks good, don't know why the clutch cover doesn't look as shiny though. Should have done the dipstick as well Simon. If I do one soon I'll send you one FOC, I've got quite a few lying around. Should have had the camshaft end caps done as well. They are meant to be semi shiny but yours have gone very dull.

The rubber on the clutch cable is supposed to slide over the top nut BTW, not a big thing but it's the little touches that complete the look IMO.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 15, 2022, 03:17:54 PM
I like any fastener as long as it isn't a JIS headed screw.
I have painful memories of removing the clutch cover on my old 250 Dream. I think four of them ended up with chewed heads that had to be drilled out. Then my stud extractor only managed to undo three of the bolt shafts - the last one snapped off so had to be drilled out. I bought a Honda  T bar to put it the new screws as back in the day it was a Phillips head only world. About a year later when the casing had to come off again I still had to drill one out.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: K2-K6 on October 15, 2022, 03:33:56 PM
These seem a good substitute to both look in keeping and having durable drive method

[attachimg=1]

And

[attachimg=2]

Look unnoticed until you inspect more carefully, but with much more assured drive in practical use.

Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on October 15, 2022, 03:43:33 PM

The left side looks good, don't know why the clutch cover doesn't look as shiny though. Should have done the dipstick as well Simon. If I do one soon I'll send you one FOC, I've got quite a few lying around. Should have had the camshaft end caps done as well. They are meant to be semi shiny but yours have gone very dull.

The rubber on the clutch cable is supposed to slide over the top nut BTW, not a big thing but it's the little touches that complete the look IMO.

It isn't as shiny - didn't help I suspect being packed with oily bubble wrap before I collected them ! I've tried to get it better but it would really want doing again - the other two look ok but the chain cover one has some black marks/ corrosion still visable underneath

The dipstick does look a bugger  ::)

I was looking at getting replacement camshaft end caps and having a go with some solvol / scotchbrite - same with the tappet covers

Good spot on the clutch cable - I'd forgotten after adjusting
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Johnny4428 on October 15, 2022, 05:30:41 PM
I get that about the screws without a doubt. These look like a good alternative Nigel. I fitted Allen cap head screws on the 550 cases but thought they spoiled the look slightly. I will change them out yet but will probably replace or re plate old ones. Just my preference.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Oddjob on October 15, 2022, 07:50:54 PM
Seriously, try the new Honda bolts they are still using to this day, started around 1980 on bikes like the 250N etc.

They do the correct sizes, meaning if the specs say 32mm then that's what you can buy, not having to fit either a 30mm or a 35mm. Plus because the head is so small they can fit where a 6mm bolt with a 10mm head can't, like the ends of the camcover. The beauty of them is you can buy a job lot off Ebay, where a breakers has broke a late Honda and you get loads of them. Plus the part number system is very easy to understand, a standard 6 x 8mm headed bolt is 96000-0603200 for instance, that's a 6 x 32mm bolt, if you want a different size just substitute the 32 part with the required length, like 96000-0610000, which would be a 100mm bolt. You can search and check if they make a specific length very easily.

You can see them on this pic I took when restoring my L reg. Fitted on the rotor cover and the camcover.

(https://i.postimg.cc/0jnHMYjs/scan0003-1.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Plus, just thought of this added bonus, any bolts that face upwards, like the camcover ones, don't get flooded with water etc when it rains, this then rusts the edges of the socket hole causing them to fail when you try to remove the bolt. They don't hold dirt the same way and are easier to clean as it's a solid surface with no cavities.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: philward on October 15, 2022, 09:18:22 PM
I've got these on my 500/750 - with a touch of coppersil I have never had any problems. Look original with no corrosion
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224451498118?var=523235625776
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Johnny4428 on October 16, 2022, 08:01:02 AM
That’s a nice looking restoration Ken. Very interesting regarding bolts and simple ordering number system.
Phil these screws look the part too. Thanks for link.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on October 29, 2022, 01:23:07 PM
Picked up a spare swing arm and had it powder coated .... so today its raining and thought ... go for it !!

All went pretty smoothly - one surpeise was the swingarm that came off had the roller bearing bush setup - no idea if this is better or worse but I'll probably get it powder coated and keep as a spare.

The end result to me looks better as the original was badly scratched - but it is really hard to tell

Simon

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]

[attachimg=3]

[attachimg=4]
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Laverdaroo on October 29, 2022, 01:26:27 PM
Nice, nice, nice :D
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 29, 2022, 02:02:22 PM
Whilst I was picking up my frame from RPT Engineering Ltd at Alfreton I started chatting to a bloke who was having a Moto Guzzi wheel hub powder coated for his Mini Metro A series engined trike - he told me he gets his wheels rebuilt by an excellent Motorcycle Dealer in Shirebrook by a bloke who knows his stuff - his hub was reverse spoked whatever that means.

I think it is called Shirebrook Motorcycles as the bloke knew where it was on Station Road - do you know the place Simon?

.http://www.shirebrookmotorcycles.co.uk/

.

https://www.shirebrookmotorcycles.co.uk/wheel-respoking
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Oddjob on October 29, 2022, 02:10:07 PM
Your cam cover end caps are almost done Simon, they were pretty bad with contamination and under the paint/lacquer was quite a bit of odd casting marks, like the surface has a rash. Took me a good while to get rid of it, spent about 4 hours on them now and they are almost ready to polish. I'll post a pic of them when they are done.

Swinging arm with needle rollers in will be better than the standard metal bushes, I've got a set in my swinging arm. However because of the way they are constructed the original grease nipples are useless as the cage blocks the exit point off. If your going to get the old swinging arm powder coated I'd advice putting a grease nipple in the centre of the pivot tube, just drill 4mm and tap 5mm and fit a small stainless grease nipple. Needs to be done before having it powder coated obviously, a small flat spot and a copper washer under the nipple will help seal it from leakage when pushing grease down it. 
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on October 29, 2022, 04:10:53 PM
Whilst I was picking up my frame from RPT Engineering Ltd at Alfreton I started chatting to a bloke who was having a Moto Guzzi wheel hub powder coated for his Mini Metro A series engined trike - he told me he gets his wheels rebuilt by an excellent Motorcycle Dealer in Shirebrook by a bloke who knows his stuff - his hub was reverse spoked whatever that means.

I think it is called Shirebrook Motorcycles as the bloke knew where it was on Station Road - do you know the place Simon?

.http://www.shirebrookmotorcycles.co.uk/

.

https://www.shirebrookmotorcycles.co.uk/wheel-respoking

I have used them to rebuild a wheel ages ago for a Harley - they were good and very reasonable cost
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on October 29, 2022, 04:14:02 PM
Your cam cover end caps are almost done Simon, they were pretty bad with contamination and under the paint/lacquer was quite a bit of odd casting marks, like the surface has a rash. Took me a good while to get rid of it, spent about 4 hours on them now and they are almost ready to polish. I'll post a pic of them when they are done.

Swinging arm with needle rollers in will be better than the standard metal bushes, I've got a set in my swinging arm. However because of the way they are constructed the original grease nipples are useless as the cage blocks the exit point off. If your going to get the old swinging arm powder coated I'd advice putting a grease nipple in the centre of the pivot tube, just drill 4mm and tap 5mm and fit a small stainless grease nipple. Needs to be done before having it powder coated obviously, a small flat spot and a copper washer under the nipple will help seal it from leakage when pushing grease down it.

Brilliant about the cam cover caps Ken :)

The swing arm had plenty of grease in it - I wonder how it had been greased - I'll take some better pictures of it .... it had different tube and different size big end cap things that go on the ends before fitting

Thanks

Simon
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 29, 2022, 04:40:26 PM
Interesting upgrade on your old swing arm - must give you some confidence in the quality of its last rebuild.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on October 29, 2022, 04:50:31 PM
Interesting upgrade on your old swing arm - must give you some confidence in the quality of its last rebuild.

That was exactly what I thought
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Oddjob on October 29, 2022, 04:53:01 PM
Your cam cover end caps are almost done Simon, they were pretty bad with contamination and under the paint/lacquer was quite a bit of odd casting marks, like the surface has a rash. Took me a good while to get rid of it, spent about 4 hours on them now and they are almost ready to polish. I'll post a pic of them when they are done.

Swinging arm with needle rollers in will be better than the standard metal bushes, I've got a set in my swinging arm. However because of the way they are constructed the original grease nipples are useless as the cage blocks the exit point off. If your going to get the old swinging arm powder coated I'd advice putting a grease nipple in the centre of the pivot tube, just drill 4mm and tap 5mm and fit a small stainless grease nipple. Needs to be done before having it powder coated obviously, a small flat spot and a copper washer under the nipple will help seal it from leakage when pushing grease down it.

Brilliant about the cam cover caps Ken :)

The swing arm had plenty of grease in it - I wonder how it had been greased - I'll take some better pictures of it .... it had different tube and different size big end cap things that go on the ends before fitting

Thanks

Simon

Probably greased as the bearings were fitted. The end caps are odd, it's like a washer inside a washer, same as my kit.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Oddjob on October 30, 2022, 06:16:24 PM
Camcover end caps are finally done Simon, came out reasonably well. I also did a surprise for you as I remembered you needed it.

Here's some pics,

Before. As you can see the condition wasn't great, no big dents or cracks but the surface is heavily contaminated with oil and grime. There were some surface scratches and small stone strikes that needed removing.

(https://i.postimg.cc/DZNHqzBq/IMG-2893.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CBjc0wy1)

After, not perfect but acceptable I'd say. I've replaced the O-Rings with some brand new Viton ones I'd bought for my own caps, I bought 20 so I had some extras lying around.

(https://i.postimg.cc/9FPVjGLK/IMG-2900.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gn01V6FH)

(https://i.postimg.cc/3xnTk35Z/IMG-2901.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rD0bbXpd)

And the surprise, didn't replace the O-ring on this as I haven't bought those yet.

(https://i.postimg.cc/5Nr5bCj5/IMG-2903.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4mzH1n6n)

(https://i.postimg.cc/L4zGqmjZ/IMG-2902.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Btnmk9Yq)

Hope you like them, I'll bung them in the post tomorrow if I get the chance. Should still have your address somewhere.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Sesman on October 30, 2022, 06:48:17 PM
Wish mine looked like that😭
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on October 30, 2022, 07:04:03 PM
Wow - what can I say !!! they look fantastic and night and day from the original

And the dipstick as well !! you were right the old one did let the side down somewhat  :)

You Ken are a true gent but I'll pm you as your really need payment for all the time and effort you have gone to

Many Many thanks

Simon
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Johnny4428 on October 30, 2022, 07:57:09 PM
They look stunning Ken, great job as usual. I’m with you Sesman going to have to remove mine now and see if I can improve them a bit.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Oddjob on October 30, 2022, 08:15:21 PM
A word of warning about doing these covers. I've done a few pairs now and every single one exhibited the same odd feature. When you strip them of the lacquer and paint you'll find the bottom edge for some reason looks buckled, the metal is not smooth at all. Weird sorts of flow marks start to appear as well, like when the alloy was cooling it didn't set at the same rate everywhere.

The best advice I can give it to use those discs I told you to buy Phil, the ones from Amazon, start off with dark blue and go down to red afterwards to smooth out the metal, finish with a light blue.

Best thing I can say is don't give up, sometimes things are not going well and you think you'll never get them smooth but keep at it, be prepared to spend some hours on each one, the better the prep the better the result.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Laverdaroo on October 30, 2022, 08:28:02 PM
Had a go at mine today, no where as good as yours Ken but that goes without saying. They were in an awful state and gauged badly with some clonking scratches.

I bought some of those disks Ken mentioned; wish I’d boy got them when I did the 400 they’re ace and saves loads of time!

Couple of stages enclosed, reasonable happy but going to have a look in the light tomorrow, might give em another bash.

Rattled over them with those plastic discs as mentioned then got the bench grinder swapped round and jJust that grey soap on the stitched cloth followed by the white on the solid cotton one Ken. Not bad considering I’d rather pour molten lead into my nose than polish metal(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221030/cbab484814f3d0264ac98ad209ee3323.jpg)


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Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Laverdaroo on October 30, 2022, 08:28:51 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221030/0ccfac54185f1a1cb6a0d0967aab841c.jpg)


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Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Laverdaroo on October 30, 2022, 08:29:12 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221030/6b7d18f22e47667a821fc005492ddd54.jpg)


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Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Laverdaroo on October 30, 2022, 08:29:40 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221030/a05aa3e5b07c8269723a8a6f56f0169b.jpg)


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Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Oddjob on October 30, 2022, 08:48:50 PM
Wish I could blow the pics up for a close up look but they won't allow it.

Buy yourself a 8" felt buffing wheel Roo, use that with the grey soap, it's quicker than using a stitched wheel and tends to give brighter results.

The damage around the screw hole, on the raised section that surrounds the hole can be removed by using those discs, just some light movements of them until they go away.

Did you find that folding thing on the very bottom edge? No idea why it's there but must be a moulding thing.

That's a very satin looking finish you've got on the back cover, was that deliberate?
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Laverdaroo on October 30, 2022, 08:59:08 PM
A mixture of 'crap light' and greasey fingers followed by a wipe with a cloth, not as clean as you'd hoped.

I've got the 8" solid wheel and been usng that but with the white soap after using the grey with the harder mop to get rid of the plastic wheel marks which got rid ofthe emery wheel marks.
I was kind of hoping the cover screw would hide those marks around the hole but youre right. I'll give em another go. Looking at the piccies I didn think they looked as good as I thought. I'd lost the will to live a bit at that point (Hence my PM ;D) so gave it a rest until better light conditions tomorrow. Been on at them for about three hours.


Yeah, mine had the weird bit along the bottom, I thought it was a big ding until I'd cleaned them up a bit.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on November 05, 2022, 01:09:10 PM
So chain and sprockets today .......

I must say it went pretty well - and I also swopped the swingarm again for the one I took off that had the needle bearing upgrade .... after it had been powder coated

Added Ken's cam end caps and dipstick which really lift the bike - also show up the less than perfect casings  ::)

So I think I'll take that as a win

Simon

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Rozabikes Tim on November 05, 2022, 01:38:48 PM
That's a pretty thing.

Lots of looking at your reflection in shop windows when on it I'm sure.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on November 05, 2022, 01:42:26 PM
That's a pretty thing.

Lots of looking at your reflection in shop windows when on it I'm sure.

I'm saying nothing  ;D
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Johnny4428 on November 05, 2022, 01:59:32 PM
That is a smart looking machine.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Laverdaroo on November 05, 2022, 02:37:19 PM
Love your rideSi, that is one pretty bloody lovely looking bike that! 8)
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on November 05, 2022, 02:44:36 PM
Love your rideSi, that is one pretty bloody lovely looking bike that! 8)

Thanks - there ae a few chipped bits on corners of the frame etc that need touching up but haven't decided what yet to use
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Laverdaroo on November 05, 2022, 02:48:54 PM
I dot care how many chips are on it, what a belter that is!
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Oddjob on November 05, 2022, 04:29:23 PM
Fork sliders are letting it down now if anything, and no I'm not volunteering, unless you're really desperate.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Bryanj on November 05, 2022, 04:41:46 PM
Sorry not a patch on the one in trigger and julies hallway
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Oddjob on November 05, 2022, 04:48:38 PM
Maybe, but it hasn't had the same amount of money spent on it.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Matt_Harrington on November 05, 2022, 05:08:38 PM
Simon, a very nice looking bike. Hope it goes as well as it looks!
Matt
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on November 05, 2022, 05:10:53 PM
Fork sliders are letting it down now if anything, and no I'm not volunteering, unless you're really desperate.

Yep I know .... I'm aiming at getting them better
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on November 05, 2022, 05:13:43 PM
Sorry not a patch on the one in trigger and julies hallway

I'm quite sure it isn't but if I'm correct that one is more than twice the £££ so I would say for the money I've got in this one I'm quite happy.

I never wanted a perfect bike rather one I could use without worry and improve along the way 
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 05, 2022, 05:42:08 PM
Having seen and sat on Simon's bike when he first bought it I have to say I think it is a great bike. Since then Simon has tweaked bits in quite a short space of time to improve its appearance even further.
I have never thought of this site as some sort of completion so find comparisons unhelpful.

Like football teams a new owner can throw money at it to end up like Man City but I admire the likes of Simon's bike as he improves it.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Bryanj on November 05, 2022, 05:48:21 PM
Wasnt meant to be serious Ted
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 05, 2022, 05:49:38 PM
Wasnt meant to be serious Ted

Sometimes throw away comments can hurt - even in jest.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Bryanj on November 05, 2022, 06:03:42 PM
Many appologies to the owner and poster., was feeling smug as i am in Lincolnshire and have watched Jane taxi twice, its fun standing behind four large fans powered by 96lts of Rolls power and tring to stand up.
Stopped off at Triggers on the way and saw the UK500K0 he has done and all his work is excellant, we all know, from experience, different quirks, problems and faults on the bikes we work on and different people have seen different causes for similar faults, yes was a throwaway comment said in jest and using what used to be called straight faced Lancashire humour just like Les Dawson
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on February 25, 2023, 09:49:56 AM
Nothing really to report other than getting out and about on the bike.

I did however pick these up

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230225/054e5c236a2839fc9ee15852884c474a.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230225/054ee315b6bd9abd946f628e3f07b20d.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230225/4d3142419969c8351d0a9aa11e7b46cf.jpg)

I must say the quality looks superb and all pieces are formed / shaped to the tank profile ..... the proof of this will be in the fitting

Even the external clips have the notch in like the originals

Will report back after fitting


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Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Nurse Julie on February 25, 2023, 09:56:30 AM
I'm tempted with those Italian Mold Lab replicas. I'm just waiting to see them up close and personal fitted to someone's bike before I buy a set.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on February 25, 2023, 10:01:34 AM
Be interesting to see how you find they fit them Simon - if they turn out great I will be asking for a link for the seller.
Trust you are recovering well from your recent heath trauma - just take it easy your body was giving you a warning.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on February 25, 2023, 10:05:26 AM
I'm tempted with those Italian Mold Lab replicas. I'm just waiting to see them up close and personal fitted to someone's bike before I buy a set.

I was having exactly the same thoughts .... then thought bugger it :)

All pieces seem handed and moulded individually ... and there is a very slight difference in shape in the front bottom two pieces - if that makes sense

There are 15 clips so I'm presuming 3 per piece

I've a few jobs today but if I get chance I'll have a look at fitting
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on February 25, 2023, 10:06:39 AM
Be interesting to see how you find they fit them Simon - if they turn out great I will be asking for a link for the seller.
Trust you are recovering well from your recent heath trauma - just take it easy your body was giving you a warning.

Yep ... taking it easy was never a strong point in my makeup .... but am trying
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Oddjob on February 25, 2023, 12:24:18 PM
If they fit like the originals I found they caused a lot of problems.

I bought a brand new tank when I was restoring the L reg for the first time, coupled it with a set of original trim and clips. The clips being mild steel scratched the paintwork as they went on, they are designed to do that to gain grip. However the paintwork being scratched allowed rust to form, that couple with the tendency for the trim to hold water as it's essentially an U shape meant the tank started to show rust within a year. If I was fitting them now I'd use silicon sealant, dry fit first, fit masking tape down to the where the trim ends, both on the inside and outside of the tank, remove the trim, fit the trim with the U shape filled partly with silicon. Allow to cure and remove tape, now no water should be able to collect in the trim and no scratching of the paintwork.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Nurse Julie on February 27, 2023, 09:00:47 AM
Simon, if you get chance before fitting, could you tell me what material it's made of please. Does a magnet stick to it?
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on February 27, 2023, 10:21:54 AM
I was wondering if the profille is a bit like the original Mini wheel arch trims they were a type of clear plastic  profile with a chromed type encapsulated inner section within the plastic profile so they did not scratch the paint but took some shaping with hot water to make them fit.  BL never used clips so they would often come off on the section where the curves changed iirc they had a rivett at each end of the trim to hold the ends in.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Bryanj on February 27, 2023, 10:50:29 AM
Mini stuff is smaller Ted, i tried that
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on February 27, 2023, 10:55:30 AM
It’s not anything I’ve come across before - and is definitely the same profile as original.

Julie - believe it or not I don’t own a magnet !!

I’ve attached a close up - it does look like a metal piece sandwiched between the outer clear plastic.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230227/657ac2cd8c93ba7d8c37ee8404af2432.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230227/7264a685b6dcd21062079d45af469ccb.jpg)


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Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on February 27, 2023, 11:10:50 AM
Simon, if you get chance before fitting, could you tell me what material it's made of please. Does a magnet stick to it?

Julie - see previous reply - I found a magnetic tool tray and it doesn't seem to be metal ...

They produced a youtube video showing installation which would suggest there is some extra to cut off .... do you want me to save it and send it you once complete ?

https://youtu.be/c6_IArRGdBo
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Oddjob on February 27, 2023, 11:40:33 AM
Looks to be the same way as Honda manufactured them. Looking at the vid you can clearly see where the tank has been scratched to bits by the installation of the retaining clips, look @49 secs and just before, deep marks through the paintwork reaching right to bare metal. Then imagine the U shape full of water, holding water right up against those scratches, sure fire recipe for rust to form and where you wouldn't spot it. It travels up the tank and before you know it you've got a leaking seam.

The Honda bead was quite well known for reacting to UV, it would go milky white and it would start to spread open, most likely due to the rust being formed underneath.

I like the idea of the trim but I'm not sure it's worth the problems it brings.

How tight is the trim on the tank without the clips?
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on February 27, 2023, 03:43:42 PM
Ken

Not fitted it yet or even offered it up .... tank was full


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Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on February 27, 2023, 04:39:26 PM
Modern plastics have come a long way in terms of  uV resistance Simon - I would not compare a product manufactured 50 years ago with todays equivalent.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Oddjob on February 27, 2023, 10:37:40 PM
Trouble is Ted the milky colour could just as easily have been water trapped inside the U shape slowly corroding the metal inside the plastic. I honestly don't know, all I do know is that is the way they looked after a few years.

I do know mine were fitted to a brand new tank and within less than a year the clips were so rusty you could see dirty rust water coming out of the trim. I lent the bike to the BIL for a week, he wanted to show off on it. It came back with the tank trim in a carrier bag, I was really annoyed at him, you don't start mucking with a bike belonging to someone else even if it is family. He explained he was concerned at the amount of rust he could see and didn't want it getting any worse. You could see all the scratch marks caused by the clips on a brand new tank, they'd all started to rust.

I ended up selling the tank trim set to Graham as I didn't want to refit it due to the rust problems it was causing.

I don't mind the trim, I just thought I should warn others of the problems fitting a set can cause.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Pangloss on February 27, 2023, 11:56:48 PM
Opportune post..I have same issues as posted above...I need complete trim for a "new" Tank I purchased over ten years ago AND need to address the rust problem on my old original tank. Can you let me know where to get the trim from ?  Thanks

As an aside I'm also chasing up seat cover and trim..
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Oddjob on February 28, 2023, 12:49:55 AM
Firm called Italian Mold Labs, only seem to be on Facebook at the moment, can't find a website.

Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Pangloss on February 28, 2023, 01:23:10 AM
Thanks...Found their FB page...bit of an "ouch"  price   100euros....oh well
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: JamesH on February 28, 2023, 01:37:24 AM
Thanks...Found their FB page...bit of an "ouch"  price   100euros....oh well
Given the work that's gone into making them, it's a bargain in my opinion.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on February 28, 2023, 10:09:33 AM
Trouble is Ted the milky colour could just as easily have been water trapped inside the U shape slowly corroding the metal inside the plastic. I honestly don't know, all I do know is that is the way they looked after a few years.

I do know mine were fitted to a brand new tank and within less than a year the clips were so rusty you could see dirty rust water coming out of the trim. I lent the bike to the BIL for a week, he wanted to show off on it. It came back with the tank trim in a carrier bag, I was really annoyed at him, you don't start mucking with a bike belonging to someone else even if it is family. He explained he was concerned at the amount of rust he could see and didn't want it getting any worse. You could see all the scratch marks caused by the clips on a brand new tank, they'd all started to rust.

I ended up selling the tank trim set to Graham as I didn't want to refit it due to the rust problems it was causing.

I don't mind the trim, I just thought I should warn others of the problems fitting a set can cause.

I completely agree with you Ken about the use of steel clips to retain mouldings on vehicles it's a potential source of rusting almost immediately.

Hopefully a pampered garaged bike used mainly in the dry should be okay for many years.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Oddjob on February 28, 2023, 10:41:02 AM
Pampered, as in never washed? As that’s a source of water to get into the moulding, unless of course you use a dryer to remove it but would that remove all of it?

Not saying don’t buy the trim, I’m saying find an alternative method of attaching it.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: taysidedragon on February 28, 2023, 11:05:44 AM
If you used clear silicone to hold it on, using masking tape to keep it in place until set, you could avoid using metal clips altogether.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on February 28, 2023, 11:09:51 AM
What you have to ensure is not leaving any pockets without silicone .... or it could be just as bad as a water trap as using clips


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Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on February 28, 2023, 11:37:06 AM
Pampered, as in never washed? As that’s a source of water to get into the moulding, unless of course you use a dryer to remove it but would that remove all of it?

Not saying don’t buy the trim, I’m saying find an alternative method of attaching it.

How about waterless vehicle cleaner the more expensive ones work brilliantly ?
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Oddjob on February 28, 2023, 12:20:45 PM
As I said Simon. Dry fit the trim. Put masking tape along the edges, both on the outside and inside of the tank. Put enough silicon in the U that when it fits it will squeeze out the excess, allow to cure for a few mins, good idea re putting some on to hold it in place TD, wet finger and smooth off the joint, then remove the masking tape along the edge which will take off the excess silicon and keep the paint free of it. That should do it and keep out any water used to wash the bike or if it rains.

Seriously Simon, learn the lesson I learnt the hard way, don't use the clips.

This may be my last piece of advice on the forum, this Sunday I will be leaving the forum for good, I have no axe to grind, there is no ulterior motive except to help you avoid what I did.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on February 28, 2023, 12:44:07 PM
Ken

Good points all and explains a method well - I’ll be avoiding clips !!

Your advice is always on point to is of lesser knowledge and hopefully you will stay around

Simon


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Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Laverdaroo on February 28, 2023, 01:08:07 PM
Still shire typing even on this!

Bloody sausage fingers here!


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Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: K2-K6 on February 28, 2023, 02:05:00 PM
Still shire typing even on this!

Bloody sausage fingers here!


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I like "smelling pistakes"   :) is shire typing from bristol-shire  ;D
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on February 28, 2023, 06:18:17 PM
I simply wouldn’t fit it as it looks gash in my opinion. Chrome is chrome, plastic coated metal of dubious quality doesn’t really do it for me especially as it’s a faff to fit, easily knackered and stuffs yer tank if not put on in a way and even then is a water trap. Each to his own though but personally after coughing up. For s paint job the lady thing is do is stick that garbage to it!
———————————————————————
Some will know why he’s going, some won’t but is a MASSIVE loss to this forum and a huge shame but I understand completely.


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It is actually exactly as fitted originally - in looks and fitment
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on February 28, 2023, 06:52:10 PM

It is actually exactly as fitted originally - in looks and fitment
[/quote]

Your post has been hijacked somewhat - fwiw the trim on my tank that I have removed ready for painting is a single piece of plastic with what looks like chrome tape in the middle.
 
It was glued on at each end with some sort of black soft adhesive - the section around the front steering column had come away from the tank  & would not stay in place around the curves as there were no retaining clips fitted.

Not sure if mine was missing on the 400 or if they did away with it - I did wonder about having it painted white like the stripe to match the tank stripes on my 500?
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Laverdaroo on February 28, 2023, 07:22:49 PM
Still shire typing even on this!

Bloody sausage fingers here!


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I like "smelling pistakes"   :) is shire typing from bristol-shire  ;D


Yup, I think so!
Serves me rght for 'triping' with my elbows ;D ;D
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Oddjob on February 28, 2023, 08:23:04 PM
New ones were from a K3 David. The engines are identical, put 2 side by side and cover the numbers up and you wouldn't be able to spot the difference. It's not like putting a 550 in a 500 frame or vice versa. As I said IF it was so important, keep the original cases and sell them with the bike, let someone else have the expense of fixing them. £120 for a set of cases with marching shells, really good shells as well and a matching crankshaft is beyond a bargain, check ebay and see. Now you've got to pay for alloy welding and that's IF you can get the pins out, new shells, which if going by the state of the mains the rods will be buggered as well, that's 18 shells each around £20, another crank, ask Ted how much he paid for one, another £100-150, that's the fat part of £500-600. That's money you will NEVER get back, the 550 is not that collectable, it's not an investment bike like a 500K0 or even a 500K1 or a 750K0.

But it's your bike and your money and your choice.

Oh and it's a 550K1 not a 550K0 Julie. Not worth even half as much, not that the K0 is worth anything anyway.

Really sorry for the thread hijack Simon, I really wanted you to avoid the mistake I made with the clips, you have a lovely bike and it's important to me that you keep it that way, the 500 has always been MY bike, it's my first love so if I can keep one on the road that's worth going that little extra mile for. In an effort to stress how important it was to made I made that statement on your thread instead of starting a separate one which was always my intention. Sorry mate.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: SPR on February 28, 2023, 08:36:50 PM
Really sorry for the thread hijack Simon, I really wanted you to avoid the mistake I made with the clips, you have a lovely bike and it's important to me that you keep it that way, the 500 has always been MY bike, it's my first love so if I can keep one on the road that's worth going that little extra mile for. In an effort to stress how important it was to made I made that statement on your thread instead of starting a separate one which was always my intention. Sorry mate.

As always Ken I'm greatful for the advice ....... I'm thinking of using Sikaflex 221 which I've used before to repair and make seals .. I think a bead of it would easily stick to the tank lip and then hold the trim etc .... it holds its shape better than silicone - if that makes sense - and might be less messy

Cheers

Simon
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Oddjob on February 28, 2023, 09:07:46 PM
Fine Simon, anything you like as long as it's not those clips  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: davidcumbria on February 28, 2023, 11:05:54 PM

New ones were from a K3 David. The engines are identical, put 2 side by side and cover the numbers up and you wouldn't be able to spot the difference. It's not like putting a 550 in a 500 frame or vice versa. As I said IF it was so important, keep the original cases and sell them with the bike, let someone else have the expense of fixing them. £120 for a set of cases with marching shells, really good shells as well and a matching crankshaft is beyond a bargain, check ebay and see. Now you've got to pay for alloy welding and that's IF you can get the pins out, new shells, which if going by the state of the mains the rods will be buggered as well, that's 18 shells each around £20, another crank, ask Ted how much he paid for one, another £100-150, that's the fat part of £500-600. That's money you will NEVER get back, the 550 is not that collectable, it's not an investment bike like a 500K0 or even a 500K1 or a 750K0.

But it's your bike and your money and your choice.

Oh and it's a 550K1 not a 550K0 Julie. Not worth even half as much, not that the K0 is worth anything anyway.

Really sorry for the thread hijack Simon, I really wanted you to avoid the mistake I made with the clips, you have a lovely bike and it's important to me that you keep it that way, the 500 has always been MY bike, it's my first love so if I can keep one on the road that's worth going that little extra mile for. In an effort to stress how important it was to made I made that statement on your thread instead of starting a separate one which was always my intention. Sorry mate.

Ken if you would like to keep in touch about this ( I haven’t yet got any idea on the sizes, cost or availability of shells for my  engine which is pretty crucial)  pls pm me your email since I  can’t message you. Sorry for the Thread hijack Simon
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: davidcumbria on March 01, 2023, 10:14:52 AM
Ken I’ve had chance to check out the bearings and it could be that I need the no longer available yellow ones,  cases stamped CBAAA. As you know I’m driving by your place tommorow so would be happy to pick up the bottom end and chuck in extra 20 quid for the hassle. You’ve got my phone number so let’s keep the discussion off here and text me if you’re interested.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Trigger on March 01, 2023, 11:31:00 AM
Ken I’ve had chance to check out the bearings and it could be that I need the no longer available yellow ones,  cases stamped CBAAA. As you know I’m driving by your place tommorow so would be happy to pick up the bottom end and chuck in extra 20 quid for the hassle. You’ve got my phone number so let’s keep the discussion off here and text me if you’re interested.

You can not use shells by letter stamping. The manual references are for new parts and not worn cranks ;)
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Sesman on March 01, 2023, 12:40:59 PM
Ken I’ve had chance to check out the bearings and it could be that I need the no longer available yellow ones,  cases stamped CBAAA. As you know I’m driving by your place tommorow so would be happy to pick up the bottom end and chuck in extra 20 quid for the hassle. You’ve got my phone number so let’s keep the discussion off here and text me if you’re interested.

You can not use shells by letter stamping. The manual references are for new parts and not worn cranks ;)

Is that entirely correct Trigger? I’m just curious if this applies should the journals measure up as ‘relatively’ unworn. It’s just that the alpha/numeric method worked fine for me. I even plastigauged post bearing selection and it measured up. I’m not a trained mechanic by the way.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Trigger on March 01, 2023, 01:29:56 PM
Ken I’ve had chance to check out the bearings and it could be that I need the no longer available yellow ones,  cases stamped CBAAA. As you know I’m driving by your place tommorow so would be happy to pick up the bottom end and chuck in extra 20 quid for the hassle. You’ve got my phone number so let’s keep the discussion off here and text me if you’re interested.

You can not use shells by letter stamping. The manual references are for new parts and not worn cranks ;)

Is that entirely correct Trigger? I’m just curious if this applies should the journals measure up as ‘relatively’ unworn. It’s just that the alpha/numeric method worked fine for me. I even plastigauged post bearing selection and it measured up. I’m not a trained mechanic by the way.

You went the correct way by plastigauging up everything and were lucky that the crank was not worn. Must of been a low mileage engine or had the correct oil changes.
I think it was Ash that bought a load of shells for one of his SOHC's and when he plastigauged the crank up he had to hunt for another size.
And the hundreds of SOHC's engines i have built, i would say at least 45% had worn cranks. Years ago you could always fine a good crank that was within spec but, as theses old girls get older it is not so easy these days.
In my old workshop years ago we used good cranks as door stops because we had so many on shelfing racks ;)
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Sesman on March 01, 2023, 02:21:04 PM
Thanks for the reply, very enlightening. I’m pretty sure mine was a genuine 17km miles example judging by the deed of entitlement and letter I received from the previous owners widow ( his name was Delbert D Trotter of Illinois honestly - no kidding). The engine was immaculate with no visible or measurable wear on any bearing surfaces, cam or big, small ends. As you say, looks like I got a genuine low mileage, well maintained motor.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Trigger on March 04, 2023, 08:38:46 AM
Thanks for the reply, very enlightening. I’m pretty sure mine was a genuine 17km miles example judging by the deed of entitlement and letter I received from the previous owners widow ( his name was Delbert D Trotter of Illinois honestly - no kidding). The engine was immaculate with no visible or measurable wear on any bearing surfaces, cam or big, small ends. As you say, looks like I got a genuine low mileage, well maintained motor.

I hope you had a good deal from D Trotter  ::)

I have had loads of emails over the years asking, how much do you charge to rebuild a engine and my answer was always the same. I would not know until i strip it down and do a full assessment report, as every engine is different.
Take two 550 engines at 17000 miles. One has a oil change at every 1000 miles and the other at every 5000 miles and when you measure up every part you will see which one has been well maintained and which one has not.
Never have i come across a engine that has the identical measurement on piston to bore clearance when doing a strip and assessment report.   ;)
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Johnny4428 on March 04, 2023, 09:03:16 AM
Interesting Trigger! Possibly quality/type of oil and the way it is ridden to have a bearing on wear and tear? (no pun intended) 😉
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Sesman on March 04, 2023, 09:42:48 AM
Yep, a reasonable good deal. Old trotters was bit of lad according to his obituary….he passed away in 2021. DDT bought it in 1985, crashed it then left in his garage till his death.

Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Bryanj on March 04, 2023, 10:27:49 AM
Those Illinios titles are pretty arnt they, my No 36 came from there
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Johnny4428 on March 04, 2023, 10:47:37 AM
Thanks for the reply, very enlightening. I’m pretty sure mine was a genuine 17km miles example judging by the deed of entitlement and letter I received from the previous owners widow ( his name was Delbert D Trotter of Illinois honestly - no kidding). The engine was immaculate with no visible or measurable wear on any bearing surfaces, cam or big, small ends. As you say, looks like I got a genuine low mileage, well maintained motor.

D Trotter! “For real” I thought someone was taking the piss!😂😂
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Sesman on March 04, 2023, 12:57:21 PM
No, it’s genuine. It’s actually quite a common name in Illinois.

His family wrote to me, sending the DOT and providing a brief history of DDTs bike ownership. The mileage is genuine at 17k. DDT bought the bike as a traffic beating ‘get to work’ machine, rode it for about 2000Miles, but dropped it. He then stowed it, but never got round to mending it. The forks were bent and the frame slightly damaged, which would have required a complete engine out job to fix.

I’ve actually got his obituary somewhere, but won’t post it as it seems a bit macabre to do so.



Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Bryanj on March 04, 2023, 01:48:12 PM
Sounds like a great deal and good info to keep
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Sesman on March 04, 2023, 02:03:18 PM
Yes, I was very interested in his life story. A really active guy with a very wide range of interests and hobbies.

The only thing I’m short of is a seat. F2 items seem to be incredibly illusive and I don’t want a copy. I have the original base and foam, I’ve even got someone lined up to refit it, but the base needs the skills of a good metal basher to reclaim it. It’s suffered from the usual ‘side stand’ rot.




Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Rozabikes Tim on March 04, 2023, 03:07:19 PM
Yes, I was very interested in his life story. A really active guy with a very wide range of interests and hobbies.

The only thing I’m short of is a seat. F2 items seem to be incredibly illusive and I don’t want a copy. I have the original base and foam, I’ve even got someone lined up to refit it, but the base needs the skills of a good metal basher to reclaim it. It’s suffered from the usual ‘side stand’ rot.

Side stand rot?? As in water gathering in one place  with bike at an angle?
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Laverdaroo on March 04, 2023, 03:09:01 PM
That’s it Tim. Like my exhaust were, all rusty but only
On one side where the juice had collected, does the same to the pans on these by all accounts. I had an upturned skateboard on Mejima when I got here so cant really comment but read it elseware….


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Sesman on March 04, 2023, 03:17:31 PM
Yes, it’s classic symptom of storing the bike on the side stand.

I’m guessing that my quest for decent F2 seat pan is forlorn hope.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Oddjob on March 04, 2023, 03:26:13 PM
I have one or maybe 2 in my loft Phil. I use them as storage shelfs, your box of seashells sit on one of them. Every now and then I hit them with a hammer as they annoy me for some reason. The seat pans not the seashells, they calm me, I put them to my ear and listen to the sounds of the sea, on one you can clearly hear a pensioner shouting at the seagulls, F*** off you flying vermin he usually hollers. Oh how I laugh at his antics.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Oddjob on March 04, 2023, 03:33:58 PM
Just for you Phil.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/385262783308?hash=item59b3738b4c:g:UdMAAOSwElljhYxZ&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA4Pkr5ES%2BTduWhm%2BnhFCtn2m2qmb0b0Q6AVxE6M5qBOrDE4IfeKRdMiiWhiN9T7G4IB7hAdHBfy5pRBCRiTsCwg5cY8arjgoyVBvkML4q5Pz%2BTcoFB%2F1M9%2FQxJ1zL62I8HzogOGKhr3H9G4oA9EJH1sGA7aVpdq0tsY3DJGMxO7kCRGytVVRWSau5DziQX2BY6RLsvJ5v4X0YJHNWTUmYqbWet%2FUnQD32RrMsj6jj8kXB0sxI4uvRAtBbAq6ku7fs7o%2B4SQejrKIhMpJF6B5hbh%2B4xqLBcCFFgb49hmMjahpf%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR8aE9NPVYQ

Bit of welding, good as new.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Sesman on March 04, 2023, 03:41:45 PM
Thanks Ken.

You are the master searcher, but at that price I’ll ask my panel beater to set about the original seat, spending the money on an English craftsman rather than a teutonic bandit😳
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Oddjob on March 04, 2023, 03:48:57 PM
Depends on how much rust your pan has on it, just had a 500 seat pan powder coated by the ceramic coaters, just to see what their powder coating skills were like. I also had a few hinge bars done at the same time, getting hard to find these days in good nick. I'll bung em on ebay when I get the chance.

Oh complete 550F seat in the states but the pan is mega rusty. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/204260472610?hash=item2f8edf7722:g:rgYAAOSwMC5jUaft&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoBAhIgtw6KvfCZtkEtdtS7hLPeM7DD4uGEHiyxojiYfhD9B%2FSYq1PuWO5O0sXm2qYenK2U3bFbjzYMeTUuEAxcvNEWkm025xFgXtk8BnYBVndM%2FCE%2BNGjI%2BvdepP6ey06FO%2Fmg7zbkUM0OrFFRCrqCpGAT96y%2BmOzX1%2BVWYUWwpECZ%2B7BcPqqhJnYBwnD9rD2axcmPlliZ42aXHsT4d3psk%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR8aE9NPVYQ
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: JamesH on March 04, 2023, 04:04:10 PM
Yes, I was very interested in his life story. A really active guy with a very wide range of interests and hobbies.

The only thing I’m short of is a seat. F2 items seem to be incredibly illusive and I don’t want a copy. I have the original base and foam, I’ve even got someone lined up to refit it, but the base needs the skills of a good metal basher to reclaim it. It’s suffered from the usual ‘side stand’ rot.
Seaman I may have a decent F1 seat - will check next time I’m at my storage unit.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Oddjob on March 04, 2023, 04:08:22 PM
Seaman Titter Titter, I think he thinks you're a spunky chappy Phil.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Sesman on March 04, 2023, 04:49:08 PM
Thanks James. I’d very much appreciate that.

Cheers.

Seaman Staines and Master Bates. Both of whom never actually featured in the Captain Pugwash series, contrary to popular belief. This is me in seaman mode……The fools actually let me helm.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Sesman on March 04, 2023, 05:03:43 PM
Aye, a bit of rot on that one. Hopefully James will be able to sort me out with a decent one.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Johnny4428 on March 04, 2023, 10:37:15 PM
I have one or maybe 2 in my loft Phil. I use them as storage shelfs, your box of seashells sit on one of them. Every now and then I hit them with a hammer as they annoy me for some reason. The seat pans not the seashells, they calm me, I put them to my ear and listen to the sounds of the sea, on one you can clearly hear a pensioner shouting at the seagulls, F*** off you flying vermin he usually hollers. Oh how I laugh at his antics.

Ken! I think the men in the white coats are coming for ya! 🤣🤣🤣
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Oddjob on March 04, 2023, 11:29:00 PM
Been, gone, didn’t take me, said I was too far gone
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Laverdaroo on March 04, 2023, 11:39:28 PM
I’ll second that

Phil, I think in the trade, that’s revered to as ‘fooked’

You do look a jolly chap when in spu, sorry, seaman mode

I’d have seen my breakfast way before I’d got to having a go at driving. For somebody who loves his boat fishing as much as I do, I’ve only to get on one in the harbour and I feel like death
Nice flotation suit you’re sporting though …..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Oddjob on March 05, 2023, 01:56:59 AM
You notice that far off look in Phils eyes Roo, it's like a look of longing, like where the f**k are my shells dude, sad.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Johnny4428 on March 05, 2023, 07:37:27 AM
Been, gone, didn’t take me, said I was too far gone

🤣🤣🤣 Just give you something to polish and lock the door!
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Sesman on March 05, 2023, 08:31:46 AM
I’d take very good care of them shells, Ken. I can’t see you ever using them or selling them….😀 The far off look is mainly due to the fact I’d recently stopped spewing Roo. It was very calm conditions too. I couldn’t be trusted to steer one of them in rough weather, I’m actually not a sailor at all…I’m a complete novice. My mate press-ganged me into service and starting this Dec I’ll be sailing 18 thousand miles via Australia, Vietnam, China, Japan, America and Ireland. I’ll definitely get an opportunity to do some SOHC parts searching in Japan and America.

Meant to ask Ken. How do you achieve a satin polish finish. Is it technique or using a certain type of mop-wheel, or perhaps both? I’ve spoken to your man Nick and it looks like i’ll be going the silver cerakote route.

Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Multiman on March 05, 2023, 12:20:10 PM
Hi Sesman, I've crewed on other peoples boats for years so am very envious of your trip in December.
THE best place to reduce motion sickness is at the wheel, you are too busy to get ill.
Everyone takes some time to acclimatise so I'm sure you will.
If you have time and fancy it, a dinghy sailing course is a cheap way to learn the fundamentals which are directly transferable to bigger boats.
The equivalent of a "What engine oil should I use..." thread is an anchor thread. Hours of fun reading about people who will never agree with each other.
Lots of jargon, lots to learn and loads of fun.
Enjoy your trip.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on March 05, 2023, 12:24:06 PM
I was never sea sick until I was crossing the Bay of Biscay in very rough seas whilst crewing on a 50/55 ft converted fisher.
Even the Captain was hanging over the sides!
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Johnny4428 on March 05, 2023, 12:55:55 PM
When I was 17/18 I decided to take a job on a coaster. I was ill for the entire 10 days that I spent at sea, couldn’t eat or hardly managed on my feet. I decided after jumping ship at Seaham that the sea was not for me.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Oddjob on March 05, 2023, 02:51:36 PM
Personally I've never done a satin finish Phil, I believe you do a decent job of getting a shine and then use something like a green scouring pad to dull the finish. Never tried it as I always go for the ultra bright mirror finish.

I'm hanging onto the shells, they are my investment parts. When they start going for £30 a shell I'll start to sell them. I have other parts like that, I have loads of one part for the 500 that I think will skyrocket soon and I'll be waiting in the wings for when they do. They are already 50% higher in price than what I paid for them 2 years ago. Plus I have loads of other NOS parts I'll eventually let go, seats, grabrails, chain guards, rear mudguards etc.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Sesman on March 05, 2023, 04:03:03 PM
Hi Sesman, I've crewed on other peoples boats for years so am very envious of your trip in December.
THE best place to reduce motion sickness is at the wheel, you are too busy to get ill.
Everyone takes some time to acclimatise so I'm sure you will.
If you have time and fancy it, a dinghy sailing course is a cheap way to learn the fundamentals which are directly transferable to bigger boats.
The equivalent of a "What engine oil should I use..." thread is an anchor thread. Hours of fun reading about people who will never agree with each other.
Lots of jargon, lots to learn and loads of fun.
Enjoy your trip.

I did a long weekend dinghy sailing course in Ripon near York. I spent more time in the water than in the bloody boat. I did the manly thing and gave up.
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Multiman on March 05, 2023, 04:09:48 PM
 ;D
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Bryanj on March 05, 2023, 04:13:02 PM
As an ex merchant mariner, albeit a loooong time ago worst i ever felt was on IOM steam racket co. When it was a millpond with a "lazy roll"
Title: Re: Back with a 500 ....
Post by: Laverdaroo on March 05, 2023, 05:12:05 PM
You notice that far off look in Phils eyes Roo, it's like a look of longing, like where the f**k are my shells dude, sad.
]

 ;D ;D ;D
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