Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB500/550 => Topic started by: DigDil on August 05, 2022, 10:38:01 AM
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Hi All,
I have a usa import cb55k0 I’m trying to work out what the correct side stand looks like. When I got the bike it had some crazy length forks(it now has the correct forks) and the wrong sidestand. I picked up I thought was the correct one from ebay but this is too short.
The mount for the stand is at the front of the frame but I can’t find a good picture of one as a reference. I wonder if could post a picture or maybe have a look at what for sale on ebay and let me know which might fit.
Any help is much appreciate
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It will be the same as a CB500Four. If it is too short, are you sure the frame bracket is not bent.
This is a link >>> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/354069829807?hash=item527034d8af:g:TPoAAOSwW5diCSeo
Just measured one on a bike and it is 25 to the center of the ball.
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
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Thanks for that. They both look like the one I now have so maybe something is out of shape. I'll take another look at it again over the weekend.
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Most of the 500 side stands will be bent. People set off with the stand down (we've all done that) first left hander it hits the floor, if you're lucky it flicks it up but more often it stands the bike up. This causes a very slight bend in the stand, the more it gets hit the worse it gets. Look at it carefully and see if you can see a slight bend.
To straighten it you'll need to get it cherry red hot and for that you really need an oxy torch, Mapp gas just doesn't do it. If you don't straighten it you'll find it will hit the No1 exhaust pipe causing a dent.
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Thanks for that. They both look like the one I now have so maybe something is out of shape. I'll take another look at it again over the weekend.
I think it would be the mounting bracket had been bent due to have longer forks. This is very common in the USA were, they extended the fork to try to make them look more like a chopper.
How much too short is it ? I have one somewhere that has been extended by about an inch.
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I've measured the stand and its just slightly shorter than the one pictured at 9 1/2". As Oddjob pointed out I think its bent there's quite a curve in it. Not having one to compare it against I thought it was normal and just the wrong stand.
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Dont remember any cutve in sidestand, should be straight
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Yeah that's bent, unusually upwards. Also check to see if it's bent backwards as that's how they go when you hit them against the road. Needs to be cherry red to bend it back, I speak from experience ;D ;D
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I had one like that!
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220808/2c0e87dfc0e7030e441cfa08f52434d1.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220808/5776a301572b192e1a34628266516150.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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[...] Needs to be cherry red to bend it back [...]
That will change the molecular structure however.
Below a pic of my main stand with metal fatigue. Was welded by friend, but after some time bike went down again. My cheap suggestion: have a little piece of wood with you of say 10x10cm, also good when you park in a soft shoulder.
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Metal fatigue though isn't the same as a piece of metal that's just bent, it may change the structure but I doubt it would weaken it.
If that was the case we couldn't really recycle metal.
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It's not the same, I'm afraid. Bent metal and then bending it back, will weaken it. My RH side peg support has been slightly bent ever since a drop in the 80s, just slightly. For cosmetic reasons I wanted to straighten it again. My mechanic back then advised me not to, after I told him I have the habit to stand on the pegs to control my bike in terrain.
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So what about welding parts, are they weakened? If no heat was applied I'd agree it could weaken the part but with heat it allows the metal to be reshaped without significantly weakening it. Maybe the mechanic thought you meant just hitting it straight again.
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It's not the same, I'm afraid. Bent metal and then bending it back, will weaken it. My RH side peg support has been slightly bent ever since a drop in the 80s, just slightly. For cosmetic reasons I wanted to straighten it again. My mechanic back then advised me not to, after I told him I have the habit to stand on the pegs to control my bike in terrain.
Well, I'm afraid I can tell you that with a good degree of certainty (although not being great at studying probability) that both you and your mechanic are likely to be entirely wrong.
That would depend on the ultimate metallurgical combination of the steel used, but none of these components are routinely made of heat treatable steel. This makes them relatively insensitive to a heat cycle that would be used in both welding and same for heating the stand to return it to original shape by bending.
Oddjob is correct in how to reshape it, if clamped firmly in a vice across the flat parts of the clevis such that it's not possible to deform that bit, a big ring spanner can be used to gently bend it back while red hot.
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You give me far too much credit, I meant just beating the crap out of it with a bloody big hammer 😁😁😁
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I like that one. You can not bend steel, i will remember that next time i take a rod of steel out of the furnace and it starts to bend on its own weight :o
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Ken, recommended torque setting for Doxford big end nuts is one average size man using a 28lb hammer on the provided flogging spanner OR beat the shit out of it with a big hammer!
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I'm no expert. Here a few questions.
Why is it when a frame needs to be corrected after an accident, this is done cold?
Why is it that both in Germany as well in Holland when cars at the yearly APK (Holland) IÜV (in Germany also for bikes) will be rejected when the inspector detects parts like trailer hooks have been heat treated?
A friend's bike's handlebars were slightly bent after a drop. The mechanic at his dealer refused to bend it back to its original form, arguing it wasn't safe.
I'm not suggesting I know the answers. I would like to learn more on the subject.
Can you suggest what caused the metal fatigue of my main stand?
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Main stand, usually mud causes that. The webbing around that area is hollow, due to it's location it gets all sorts of stuff thrown at it by the back wheel. The dirt sticks inside, when it gets wet is acts like a huge sponge and just starts to eat away at the metal from the inside, you can't see it as it's hidden and the first you'd normally know of it is the paint bubbling on the surface as the rusts underneath blows it off the metal. By this time it's usually too late, the place in question is also a pivot point for the weight of your body, so when the rust has eaten enough of the metal that it's significantly weakened it the pressure of lifting the bike with your weight as well will snap it off. You see a clean break as that's what's left of the metal but the outsides will just be rust.
Frame, they do them cold because the heat will remove the frame paint and the customer doesn't want that do he, no he'd sooner it was weaker than have to repaint the frame.
Dealer, easy, they wanted to sell you another set of bars. Although in this case I'd 50% agree with him, if the metal is creased it's compromised, if it's just a slight bend then straighten them, it's the fact they are chrome which means they don't want to heat them and destroy the finish which means they tend to bend them cold.
Tow bar, probably heat treated as standard so any other type of heat will compromise it's safety, lot of stress on a tow bar and they can't take a chance of the trailer coming loose because it shears off.
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Tow balls are cast iron I believe. Very strong but brittle and shouldn't be straightened or otherwise heated.
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I bow to your superior knowledge on the metal of tow bars Sye, never really interested me enough to check one.
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Tow balls are cast iron I believe. Very strong but brittle and shouldn't be straightened or otherwise heated.
I can see the thought process as it certainly looks similar to cast iron, but usually it'll be cast steel, or forged and very likely something of a match to these Honda footpeg/sidestand materials and construction. A fully loaded tow ball hitch would likely run go something like 30 ton localised tensile loading (that's peak load reversal) and probably could sustain something like 60 before yielding. Cast iron wouldn't get anywhere near this in tensile loading with that cross section, also illustrates just how strong steel is.
The particular problem with a repair or modification as asked previously is that if an item was damaged (maybe in an accident) what on earth happened to it to take it past the yeald point! The tester responsible to the owner for inspection would never want to entertain that level of uncontrolled liability, hence the probable advice to replace with another that's been supplied to confirmed standard by giving a fail notice from that inspection.
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I'm no expert. Here a few questions.
Why is it when a frame needs to be corrected after an accident, this is done cold?
Why is it that both in Germany as well in Holland when cars at the yearly APK (Holland) IÜV (in Germany also for bikes) will be rejected when the inspector detects parts like trailer hooks have been heat treated?
A friend's bike's handlebars were slightly bent after a drop. The mechanic at his dealer refused to bend it back to its original form, arguing it wasn't safe.
I'm not suggesting I know the answers. I would like to learn more on the subject.
Can you suggest what caused the metal fatigue of my main stand?
There's many detail running concentrically here.
To give initial split it would be design/structure & metallurgy/heat treatment.
Handlebar and frame tubes are usually bent cold but using a mandrel (inner and outer tube support) to keep their cylindrical shape as far as possible in finished item. Bending through damage that compromised the bore geometry significantly is ordinarily not recoverable by straightening as the tube is normally left partly crushed, which affects it's load performance.
Liability again, nobody in a legal sense where they are asked to judge and assure you "it'll be fine" will want to take that on realistically. If anyone is involved with cycles that use carbon construction on bars, frames etc the structures can be caused to fail just with things like brake lever clamps, paranoia prevails with any suspect item too risky to use critically.
Side stand and foot peg mount are generally solid cast steel and will accept realignment without much problem at all. There's practical limitations on anything though, with bent double as example likely to give problems.
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For the metallurgy aspect, the steel types can initially be split into two groups (it's a very large topic, this is just scratching the surface) those that respond to heat treatment and change their structural properties in proscribed way, then those that remain stable when heated and cooled, the properties not changing.
It's principally carbon content that promotes how this happens, above a threshold in steel the reaction is to harden and be more brittle when heated and quenched, seen in cutting tools for example. Heated/quenched/ tempered for springs, in which the tempering process (heated to lower level than quench routine) has a very long slow cooling period to refine the grain structure, and hence the material hardness to flexibility aspect. With the alloying mix and process type it can be optimised for the type of components it's used to produce.
A metal hacksaw blade as a example of mixed properties is interesting, it can be made of all heat treatable steel but with just the teeth hardened and quenched but back side of blade not heated to leave that section flexible and supporting intended use without snapping.
The route to research this if of any interest is by looking at "martensite" or martensitic microstructure as it describes how the grain structure forms differently in response to heat treatment methods.
The other side of this split is low carbon steel that doesn't respond to heat treatment, often referred to as "weldable" in workshop. Frames etc are mostly going to be this as it's not easily possible to control the temperature around the weld site, leading to potential fractures at the boundary of temperature because of different localized heat range. That's if it were made of the wrong alloy.
Generally something that's heated through welding or other means it's wise not to quench the workpiece unless you have very particular reason and knowledge as to why that's needed. All of these components are safe to bend, weld etc if there's no obvious damage to compromise the way it works.